[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
anonyff - I've had similar experiences with both TM and mindfulness of breathing, as you described. With TM - a subtle straining because the mantra just disappears and remains unavailable for most of the meditation. Just letting go completely is OK but isn't meditation as before (although occasionally a faint mantra makes an appearance and usually this is a nice meditation). More often though there is a subtle searching for the mantra or subtle effort to re-introduce it, both of which often result in headaches. Tried countless checks but these never shifted the problem. Recently tried mindfulness of breathing using a TM approach, with the breath as a wordless mantra. It seemed easier to accept experience as it happens because the breath is always THERE at least. Moreover awareness can also become vaguer, less hard-edged just like with the mantra - and sometimes very refined and delicate too, along with finer breathing. After meditation I get a soothing and alert feeling in my head - no headaches. I'm tempted to switch to mindfulness. Interested to hear of other people's experiences with it... What is surprising though is that Buddhists see this kind of mindfulness merely as a preliminary to insight meditation (re choiceless awareness)and don't seem to value it that much. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: As a former very long time TM person I would like to inject an experience I've had with a very, very easy technique I have found very nice and seems to mimic my experience with TM which, for years, did not seem easy to me. (Yes, I know Lawson will ask, at this point, if I had my meditation checked, yes repeatedly). After having read a bunch of Thich Nhat Han and a book or two by Jon Kabat-Zinn and read and asked others about mindfulness techniques, I recently sat down and just allowed my awareness to very easily and simply be with my breathing-the in breath and the out breath, no effort at changing my pattern of breathing, just having my awareness on the breath as the focus (the simple, natural effortless focus) instead of the mantra. The attention wanders, as in TM, then easily come back to the breath. I found it much easier than TM, and the experience seemed about the same to me, over the 40 minutes I did this, my head would gradually fall forward as in TM, I would become aware of it, lift it back up, go back to being with the breath, etc. Attention to breathing using the same technique as TM uses is certainly a valid technique of meditation. Effortless attention to any mental (or physical) object of perception is a valid form of meditation according to MMY. Of course, why is it easier for you to do this with breathing than with the TM mantra? My own belief, valid or not, is that you're not being drawn inward as fast or as far with attention to breathing as with the mantra so you're not experiencing the more profound levels of unstressing/normalization that you apparently are with the standard TM mantra-based technique. It seems easier because its less uncomfortable. There are strategies for handing discomfort during TM, BTW. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin bdadvaitin@ wrote: Could someone tell me what they would consider a meditation technique for transcending that's similar to the TM technique. Any opinion on Deepak Chopra's Primordial Sound Technique. I also came across Sri Sri RAvi Shankar's website. Didn't know he was once associated with MMY then went his own way and started Sudarshan Kriya. Anyone care to comment on this technique. My questions stem from the fact that the cost of TM has skyrocketed beyond the reach of mainstream America. Here I am a long time TM practioner and I am appalled at what has occured. Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
On Feb 20, 2006, at 1:16 AM, sparaig wrote:Attention to breathing using the same technique as TM uses is certainly a valid technique of meditation. Effortless attention to any mental (or physical) object of perception is a valid form of meditation according to MMY. Of course, why is it easier for you to do this with breathing than with the TM mantra? My own belief, valid or not, is that you're not being drawn inward as fast or as far with attention to breathing as with the mantra so you're not experiencing the more profound levels of unstressing/normalization that you apparently are with the standard TM mantra-based technique. It seems easier because its less uncomfortable. There are strategies for handing discomfort during TM, BTW. The place attention is placed is not just on the breath but one of the few places on the body where you can access the awareness of the central channel and consequently can go much deeper (for some people). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anonyff - I've had similar experiences with both TM and mindfulness of breathing, as you described. With TM - a subtle straining because the mantra just disappears and remains unavailable for most of the meditation. Just letting go completely is OK but isn't meditation as before (although occasionally a faint mantra makes an appearance and usually this is a nice meditation). More often though there is a subtle searching for the mantra or subtle effort to re-introduce it, both of which often result in headaches. Tried countless checks but these never shifted the problem. FWIW, I had that problem too at one time, just as you describe it. I ultimately found that what I had thought of as subtle was still too concrete. The mantra wasn't unavailable at all; it was there, but it was just *so* faint I hadn't recognized it as such. Once I realized this, I was fine, and meditation continued as it had before. A TM teacher told me that MMY had said there is no limit to how faint the mantra can become. Recently tried mindfulness of breathing using a TM approach, with the breath as a wordless mantra. It seemed easier to accept experience as it happens because the breath is always THERE at least. Moreover awareness can also become vaguer, less hard-edged just like with the mantra - and sometimes very refined and delicate too, along with finer breathing. After meditation I get a soothing and alert feeling in my head - no headaches. I'm tempted to switch to mindfulness. Interested to hear of other people's experiences with it... What is surprising though is that Buddhists see this kind of mindfulness merely as a preliminary to insight meditation (re choiceless awareness)and don't seem to value it that much. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: As a former very long time TM person I would like to inject an experience I've had with a very, very easy technique I have found very nice and seems to mimic my experience with TM which, for years, did not seem easy to me. (Yes, I know Lawson will ask, at this point, if I had my meditation checked, yes repeatedly). After having read a bunch of Thich Nhat Han and a book or two by Jon Kabat-Zinn and read and asked others about mindfulness techniques, I recently sat down and just allowed my awareness to very easily and simply be with my breathing-the in breath and the out breath, no effort at changing my pattern of breathing, just having my awareness on the breath as the focus (the simple, natural effortless focus) instead of the mantra. The attention wanders, as in TM, then easily come back to the breath. I found it much easier than TM, and the experience seemed about the same to me, over the 40 minutes I did this, my head would gradually fall forward as in TM, I would become aware of it, lift it back up, go back to being with the breath, etc. Attention to breathing using the same technique as TM uses is certainly a valid technique of meditation. Effortless attention to any mental (or physical) object of perception is a valid form of meditation according to MMY. Of course, why is it easier for you to do this with breathing than with the TM mantra? My own belief, valid or not, is that you're not being drawn inward as fast or as far with attention to breathing as with the mantra so you're not experiencing the more profound levels of unstressing/normalization that you apparently are with the standard TM mantra-based technique. It seems easier because its less uncomfortable. There are strategies for handing discomfort during TM, BTW. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin bdadvaitin@ wrote: Could someone tell me what they would consider a meditation technique for transcending that's similar to the TM technique. Any opinion on Deepak Chopra's Primordial Sound Technique. I also came across Sri Sri RAvi Shankar's website. Didn't know he was once associated with MMY then went his own way and started Sudarshan Kriya. Anyone care to comment on this technique. My questions stem from the fact that the cost of TM has skyrocketed beyond the reach of mainstream America. Here I am a long time TM practioner and I am appalled at what has occured. Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
Judy writes: FWIW, I had that problem too at one time, just as you describe it. I ultimately found that what I had thought of as subtle was still too concrete. The mantra wasn't unavailable at all; it was there, but it was just *so* faint I hadn't recognized it as such. Once I realized this, I was fine, and meditation continued as it had before. A TM teacher told me that MMY had said there is no limit to how faint the mantra can become. Tom T: There is a story that Papaji was complaining to Ramana Maharishi that he could no longer do Japa and wondered why. Ramana asked Papji how he got to the ashram and he replied by train and then by oxcart. Ramana asked him where the train and oxcart were now. Papji replied they are both back at the station. Ramana then said. They have brought you here and you no longer need them. They served as vehicles only. You have become what you were seeking there is no longer any need for the vehicle once you have arrived at the final destination. Tom T Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 20, 2006, at 1:16 AM, sparaig wrote: Attention to breathing using the same technique as TM uses is certainly a valid technique of meditation. Effortless attention to any mental (or physical) object of perception is a valid form of meditation according to MMY. Of course, why is it easier for you to do this with breathing than with the TM mantra? My own belief, valid or not, is that you're not being drawn inward as fast or as far with attention to breathing as with the mantra so you're not experiencing the more profound levels of unstressing/normalization that you apparently are with the standard TM mantra-based technique. It seems easier because its less uncomfortable. There are strategies for handing discomfort during TM, BTW. The place attention is placed is not just on the breath but one of the few places on the body where you can access the awareness of the central channel and consequently can go much deeper (for some people). How can I comment? Seems to me that while this may be true, it doesn't change the validity (or non-validity) of what I said. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk claudiouk@ wrote: anonyff - I've had similar experiences with both TM and mindfulness of breathing, as you described. With TM - a subtle straining because the mantra just disappears and remains unavailable for most of the meditation. Just letting go completely is OK but isn't meditation as before (although occasionally a faint mantra makes an appearance and usually this is a nice meditation). More often though there is a subtle searching for the mantra or subtle effort to re-introduce it, both of which often result in headaches. Tried countless checks but these never shifted the problem. FWIW, I had that problem too at one time, just as you describe it. I ultimately found that what I had thought of as subtle was still too concrete. The mantra wasn't unavailable at all; it was there, but it was just *so* faint I hadn't recognized it as such. Once I realized this, I was fine, and meditation continued as it had before. A TM teacher told me that MMY had said there is no limit to how faint the mantra can become. My analogy is that of prepsonding to the question of meeting of someone. Recalling the mantra is like being asked do you recall the person you met yesterday? No matter how vague your *initial recollection*, even the answer no, I don't is still a response. Likewise, thinking the mantra can range over an infinitely large range of values of clarity/obscurity/etc. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
As a former very long time TM person I would like to inject an experience I've had with a very, very easy technique I have found very nice and seems to mimic my experience with TM which, for years, did not seem easy to me. (Yes, I know Lawson will ask, at this point, if I had my meditation checked, yes repeatedly). After having read a bunch of Thich Nhat Han and a book or two by Jon Kabat-Zinn and read and asked others about mindfulness techniques, I recently sat down and just allowed my awareness to very easily and simply be with my breathing-the in breath and the out breath, no effort at changing my pattern of breathing, just having my awareness on the breath as the focus (the simple, natural effortless focus) instead of the mantra. The attention wanders, as in TM, then easily come back to the breath. I found it much easier than TM, and the experience seemed about the same to me, over the 40 minutes I did this, my head would gradually fall forward as in TM, I would become aware of it, lift it back up, go back to being with the breath, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could someone tell me what they would consider a meditation technique for transcending that's similar to the TM technique. Any opinion on Deepak Chopra's Primordial Sound Technique. I also came across Sri Sri RAvi Shankar's website. Didn't know he was once associated with MMY then went his own way and started Sudarshan Kriya. Anyone care to comment on this technique. My questions stem from the fact that the cost of TM has skyrocketed beyond the reach of mainstream America. Here I am a long time TM practioner and I am appalled at what has occured. Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sri Sri teaches the same technique with one of the most important advanced techniques (of the TM advanced techniques) included for very reasonable, and IMO it's a much healthier and more grassroot org. The TM-like meditation he teaches is called Sahaja Samadhi Meditation. I think its basically just TM. The Sudarshana-Kriya is a breathing technique that's different. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
On Feb 19, 2006, at 4:32 PM, t3rinity wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sri Sri teaches the same technique with one of the most important advanced techniques (of the TM advanced techniques) included for very reasonable, and IMO it's a much healthier and more grassroot org. The TM-like meditation he teaches is called Sahaja Samadhi Meditation. I think its basically just TM.Yes, but with the (IIRC) 7th advanced technique of having presence of mantra in the hridayam--an important practice for recognition and integration of the transcendent IMO--right from the start. Gotta love it. The Sudarshana-Kriya is a breathing technique that's different. Yes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/88021 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin bdadvaitin@ wrote: Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/88021 I think that's a big Yes. They have to pay students with grant money to learn TM these days. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin bdadvaitin@ wrote: Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/88021 I think that's a big Yes. They have to pay students with grant money to learn TM these days. :-) * I agree that letting people learn for free is a mistake: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006#500.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin bdadvaitin@ wrote: Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/88021 I think that's a big Yes. They have to pay students with grant money to learn TM these days. :-) * I agree that letting people learn for free is a mistake: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006#500.html That's not what I was suggesting; I think it's a *wonderful* idea to teach people to meditate for free. What I was suggesting is that these days the only way the TM movement can possibly get 500 students to participate in one of their bogus studies is to not only pay for their TM instruction, but pay them a stipend to insure that they continue meditating for the two years of the study. The TM movement and TM in general have that little credibility among the young. Mark my words, this is what the protocols of the study will involve. This is the counterpart of a tobacco study paid for by the tobacco industry or a drug study paid for by the manufacturer of the drug. The results are a foregone conclusion. And those results will be achieved by *buying* the students' continuing participation in the study. If they really wanted to do an interesting study, what they should do is create two groups of 500. One would be paid to continue meditating for two years, the other would receive no such incentive. My bet is that about 90% the unpaid group would stop meditating before the two years were up. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin bdadvaitin@ wrote: Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/88021 I think that's a big Yes. They have to pay students with grant money to learn TM these days. :-) * I agree that letting people learn for free is a mistake: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006#500.html That's not what I was suggesting; I think it's a *wonderful* idea to teach people to meditate for free. What I was suggesting is that these days the only way the TM movement can possibly get 500 students to participate in one of their bogus studies is to not only pay for their TM instruction, but pay them a stipend to insure that they continue meditating for the two years of the study. The TM movement and TM in general have that little credibility among the young. Mark my words, this is what the protocols of the study will involve. This is the counterpart of a tobacco study paid for by the tobacco industry or a drug study paid for by the manufacturer of the drug. The results are a foregone conclusion. And those results will be achieved by *buying* the students' continuing participation in the study. If they really wanted to do an interesting study, what they should do is create two groups of 500. One would be paid to continue meditating for two years, the other would receive no such incentive. My bet is that about 90% the unpaid group would stop meditating before the two years were up. ** The Abramson and Lynch Foundations are donating $1.2 million to pay for instruction fees for the 500 study participants (500 x $2500 = ~$1.2 million). The students need to kick in $50 to start TM, but then get that $50 back when they attend two sessions, reducing the cost to zero for students. Students may evidently get additional $25 stipends for further lab sessions, but I don't see that as much of a motivator -- there are plenty of drug-testing and other projects that pay lotsa money to people who are looking for a way to earn money (I took part in one down in Fla a long time ago, and collected more than a grand for a short study), and anyway, there is no way to monitor whether people who show up to collect additional $25 payment are actually still meditating. Conversely, not paying anything for follow-up lab visits would not mean that people were no longer meditating, but simply that they could not be bothered to participate unless they had the incentive of a small payment: http://www.au-tm-study.org/faq.html#11 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin bdadvaitin@ wrote: Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/88021 I think that's a big Yes. They have to pay students with grant money to learn TM these days. :-) * I agree that letting people learn for free is a mistake: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006#500.html That's not what I was suggesting; I think it's a *wonderful* idea to teach people to meditate for free. What I was suggesting is that these days the only way the TM movement can possibly get 500 students to participate in one of their bogus studies is to not only pay for their TM instruction, but pay them a stipend to insure that they continue meditating for the two years of the study. The TM movement and TM in general have that little credibility among the young. Mark my words, this is what the protocols of the study will involve. This is the counterpart of a tobacco study paid for by the tobacco industry or a drug study paid for by the manufacturer of the drug. The results are a foregone conclusion. And those results will be achieved by *buying* the students' continuing participation in the study. If they really wanted to do an interesting study, what they should do is create two groups of 500. One would be paid to continue meditating for two years, the other would receive no such incentive. My bet is that about 90% the unpaid group would stop meditating before the two years were up. * The Abramson and Lynch Foundations are donating $1.2 million to pay for instruction fees for the 500 study participants (500 x $2500 = ~$1.2 million). The students need to kick in $50 to start TM, but then get that $50 back when they attend two sessions, reducing the cost to zero for students. Students may evidently get additional $25 stipends for further lab sessions, but I don't see that as much of a motivator -- there are plenty of drug-testing and other projects that pay lotsa money to people who are looking for a way to earn money (I took part in one down in Fla a long time ago, and collected more than a grand for a short study), and anyway, there is no way to monitor whether people who show up to collect additional $25 payment are actually still meditating outside of the lab visits. Conversely, if there were no- shows for follow-up visits (because they not paying anything for follow-ups), it would not necessarily mean that people were no longer meditating, but simply that they could not be bothered to participate unless they had the incentive of a small payment: http://www.au-tm-study.org/faq.html#11 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
On Feb 19, 2006, at 5:17 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:I think that's a big Yes. They have to pay students with grant money to learn TM these days. :-) Sad but oh so true. It's rather funny but sad at the same time--esp. when you see the last few TB's touting it like middle-aged cheerleaders who just barely jump. :-))) Once programmed for marketing and spiritual materialism, always programmed for marketing and spiritual materialism... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
What does TB stand 4? please To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
True Believer (in TM/TMSP).On Feb 19, 2006, at 7:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does TB stand 4? pleaseTo subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
In a message dated 2/19/06 3:40:58 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, but with the (IIRC) 7th advanced technique of having presence of mantra in the hridayam-- That's 7th now? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
Last I heard, but perhaps someone else could say.On Feb 19, 2006, at 8:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 2/19/06 3:40:58 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Yes, but with the (IIRC) 7th advanced technique of having presence of mantra in the hridayam--That's 7th now? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a former very long time TM person I would like to inject an experience I've had with a very, very easy technique I have found very nice and seems to mimic my experience with TM which, for years, did not seem easy to me. (Yes, I know Lawson will ask, at this point, if I had my meditation checked, yes repeatedly). After having read a bunch of Thich Nhat Han and a book or two by Jon Kabat-Zinn and read and asked others about mindfulness techniques, I recently sat down and just allowed my awareness to very easily and simply be with my breathing-the in breath and the out breath, no effort at changing my pattern of breathing, just having my awareness on the breath as the focus (the simple, natural effortless focus) instead of the mantra. The attention wanders, as in TM, then easily come back to the breath. I found it much easier than TM, and the experience seemed about the same to me, over the 40 minutes I did this, my head would gradually fall forward as in TM, I would become aware of it, lift it back up, go back to being with the breath, etc. You might enjoy Vichara. In that quietness ask yourself the question, Who am I? That is, notice in your experience that sense of self It is not a conceptual question, but one that brings the attention to the I-thought which is the source of bondage. Gently hold the attention in utter stillness on that sense of me. When thoughts come simply notice to whom the thoughts come-me. This sense of me soon melts into something quite surprising!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could someone tell me what they would consider a meditation technique for transcending that's similar to the TM technique. Any opinion on Deepak Chopra's Primordial Sound Technique. I also came across Sri Sri RAvi Shankar's website. Didn't know he was once associated with MMY then went his own way and started Sudarshan Kriya. Anyone care to comment on this technique. My questions stem from the fact that the cost of TM has skyrocketed beyond the reach of mainstream America. Here I am a long time TM practioner and I am appalled at what has occured. Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin bdadvaitin@ wrote: Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/88021 I think that's a big Yes. They have to pay students with grant money to learn TM these days. :-) * I agree that it's a mistake to free-ride people: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could someone tell me what they would consider a meditation technique for transcending that's similar to the TM technique. Any opinion on Deepak Chopra's Primordial Sound Technique. I also came across Sri Sri RAvi Shankar's website. Didn't know he was once associated with MMY then went his own way and started Sudarshan Kriya. Anyone care to comment on this technique. My questions stem from the fact that the cost of TM has skyrocketed beyond the reach of mainstream America. Here I am a long time TM practioner and I am appalled at what has occured. Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? Ages ago. However, MMY's explanation for why he jacked the price up so high is simply that he's targetting the elite of the world, who enjoy blowing wads of money on things, and who are far more influential in world affairs than the not-so-elite are. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation techniques
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a former very long time TM person I would like to inject an experience I've had with a very, very easy technique I have found very nice and seems to mimic my experience with TM which, for years, did not seem easy to me. (Yes, I know Lawson will ask, at this point, if I had my meditation checked, yes repeatedly). After having read a bunch of Thich Nhat Han and a book or two by Jon Kabat-Zinn and read and asked others about mindfulness techniques, I recently sat down and just allowed my awareness to very easily and simply be with my breathing-the in breath and the out breath, no effort at changing my pattern of breathing, just having my awareness on the breath as the focus (the simple, natural effortless focus) instead of the mantra. The attention wanders, as in TM, then easily come back to the breath. I found it much easier than TM, and the experience seemed about the same to me, over the 40 minutes I did this, my head would gradually fall forward as in TM, I would become aware of it, lift it back up, go back to being with the breath, etc. Attention to breathing using the same technique as TM uses is certainly a valid technique of meditation. Effortless attention to any mental (or physical) object of perception is a valid form of meditation according to MMY. Of course, why is it easier for you to do this with breathing than with the TM mantra? My own belief, valid or not, is that you're not being drawn inward as fast or as far with attention to breathing as with the mantra so you're not experiencing the more profound levels of unstressing/normalization that you apparently are with the standard TM mantra-based technique. It seems easier because its less uncomfortable. There are strategies for handing discomfort during TM, BTW. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bdadvaitin bdadvaitin@ wrote: Could someone tell me what they would consider a meditation technique for transcending that's similar to the TM technique. Any opinion on Deepak Chopra's Primordial Sound Technique. I also came across Sri Sri RAvi Shankar's website. Didn't know he was once associated with MMY then went his own way and started Sudarshan Kriya. Anyone care to comment on this technique. My questions stem from the fact that the cost of TM has skyrocketed beyond the reach of mainstream America. Here I am a long time TM practioner and I am appalled at what has occured. Have the days of Merv Griffin initiations dried up? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
