[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Try expanding your mind a little more and visualize what the US would be like if folks worked less and lead a simpler life. First off we already have the advantage of cheap technology which trumps the problems you mention with the middle east. We have toilet paper. We have medical knowledge and with technology we can give people a lot more medical care without having to use expensive doctors so much. We have police, we have fire department we have paramedics. They even might enjoy a 10 hour work week too. Stretch your imagination more. We only have 40 hour work weeks because the industrial age tycoons wanted wage slaves. And at that it took unions to reduce the hours though hogs wanted and keep them from using children too. Contrary to popular belief, work is NOT the purpose of life. We need a leaner cleaner world not the clutter materialistic one which only benefits the few rich who scam the populace by selling them needless things. Celebrate December 22nd the way it was meant to be celebrated with global change. Throw the rich bums out! you're right, work isn't the purpose of life. However, there are a lot of developments we have that we take for granted that will never be sustained in 10 hours a week. For example, we would never become educated with 10 hours worth of work per week, nor would our schools even be able to be built or teachers get our papers graded, or cafeterias be stocked and food prepped cooked. Space shuttles wouldn't launch, brain surgeons in the E-room wouldn't be available as often as needed, bridges wouldn't get built, cars wouldn't get manufactured, air conditioners wouldn't get repaired in a timely manner, and the list goes on and on and on. Now if you pulled the number 10 out of a hat without any serious thoughtno argument then. I do think work weeks could be reduced a little bit. However, I remember before Steve Jobs passed away he was talking about how tirelessly he and his crew worked to develop a lot of his productsI guarantee you he was well over 40 hours per week in his progress. Even MMY had a lot of people working overnight tirelessly while translating the Bhagavad Gita. Hard work is not exactly a foreign concept even to people who tend towards liberal thinking. Regarding the technology that you say is now easily available and cheapyeah, it's cheap, but it still has to be manufactured and shipped from factory to outlet stores by people. Truck drivers have to drive about 10 hours just in a day for us to get what we expect and demand as consumers. My opinion about 40 hour work weeks is if that's too much, I don't know what anyone else can expect. I guarantee you every generation previous to the industrial revolution spent over 40 hours a week managing their lives. Only difference is their effort was not necessarily working for someone. More likely chopping wood, keeping the house in order, hunting, foraging, etc... Another good example is the simple purchase of a car. When you buy a car, it's not just a transaction between you and the salesman. First, someone has to locate where the raw materials are for the car (some form of a research and survey team). Then a company has to go mine those materials (miners, contractors). Then those materials have to be shipped to a warehouse (truck drivers, pilots, more contractors). Then those materials have to be formed into car parts (manufacturing plants). Then those parts have to be delivered to a place that forms the cars (more truck drivers and pilots). Then those parts are finally formed into a car (GM, FORD, Chevy auto factories). Then the vehicles have to be transported to a dealership (more truck drivers). Then there's the dealership - Owner, salesman, janitors, mechanics, receptionist, secretaries, auto parts clerk, managers. So for you and I to drive the cars we drive, hundreds of people have to be employedand when there are so many people buying cars, 10 hours a week just isn't going to cut it. The same goes with everything we buy. Extracting materials from the earth, transportation, logistical planning, manufacturing, sales and marketing, these are all required. Not just for complex machinery, but even a small toy you buy at the dollar store for one buck, and other things that are basic necessities such as the food stocked in our grocery stores and produce sections. A farmer will never produce the amount of food we need in 10, 20, or even 30 hours a week. Maybe as we evolve more we'll have robots to do all this, and the we can drastically cut our hours. Don't get me wrong in all this though. Although I make a rather decent living, I could make it off of $20k a year if I had to, and I wouldn't be struggling (just more selective on where I live). But given this day in age with retirement and the fact kids are
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
On 12/15/2012 05:04 AM, seekliberation wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Try expanding your mind a little more and visualize what the US would be like if folks worked less and lead a simpler life. First off we already have the advantage of cheap technology which trumps the problems you mention with the middle east. We have toilet paper. We have medical knowledge and with technology we can give people a lot more medical care without having to use expensive doctors so much. We have police, we have fire department we have paramedics. They even might enjoy a 10 hour work week too. Stretch your imagination more. We only have 40 hour work weeks because the industrial age tycoons wanted wage slaves. And at that it took unions to reduce the hours though hogs wanted and keep them from using children too. Contrary to popular belief, work is NOT the purpose of life. We need a leaner cleaner world not the clutter materialistic one which only benefits the few rich who scam the populace by selling them needless things. Celebrate December 22nd the way it was meant to be celebrated with global change. Throw the rich bums out! you're right, work isn't the purpose of life. However, there are a lot of developments we have that we take for granted that will never be sustained in 10 hours a week. For example, we would never become educated with 10 hours worth of work per week, nor would our schools even be able to be built or teachers get our papers graded, or cafeterias be stocked and food prepped cooked. Space shuttles wouldn't launch, brain surgeons in the E-room wouldn't be available as often as needed, bridges wouldn't get built, cars wouldn't get manufactured, air conditioners wouldn't get repaired in a timely manner, and the list goes on and on and on. Now if you pulled the number 10 out of a hat without any serious thoughtno argument then. I do think work weeks could be reduced a little bit. However, I remember before Steve Jobs passed away he was talking about how tirelessly he and his crew worked to develop a lot of his productsI guarantee you he was well over 40 hours per week in his progress. Even MMY had a lot of people working overnight tirelessly while translating the Bhagavad Gita. Hard work is not exactly a foreign concept even to people who tend towards liberal thinking. Regarding the technology that you say is now easily available and cheapyeah, it's cheap, but it still has to be manufactured and shipped from factory to outlet stores by people. Truck drivers have to drive about 10 hours just in a day for us to get what we expect and demand as consumers. My opinion about 40 hour work weeks is if that's too much, I don't know what anyone else can expect. I guarantee you every generation previous to the industrial revolution spent over 40 hours a week managing their lives. Only difference is their effort was not necessarily working for someone. More likely chopping wood, keeping the house in order, hunting, foraging, etc... Another good example is the simple purchase of a car. When you buy a car, it's not just a transaction between you and the salesman. First, someone has to locate where the raw materials are for the car (some form of a research and survey team). Then a company has to go mine those materials (miners, contractors). Then those materials have to be shipped to a warehouse (truck drivers, pilots, more contractors). Then those materials have to be formed into car parts (manufacturing plants). Then those parts have to be delivered to a place that forms the cars (more truck drivers and pilots). Then those parts are finally formed into a car (GM, FORD, Chevy auto factories). Then the vehicles have to be transported to a dealership (more truck drivers). Then there's the dealership - Owner, salesman, janitors, mechanics, receptionist, secretaries, auto parts clerk, managers. So for you and I to drive the cars we drive, hundreds of people have to be employedand when there are so many people buying cars, 10 hours a week just isn't going to cut it. The same goes with everything we buy. Extracting materials from the earth, transportation, logistical planning, manufacturing, sales and marketing, these are all required. Not just for complex machinery, but even a small toy you buy at the dollar store for one buck, and other things that are basic necessities such as the food stocked in our grocery stores and produce sections. A farmer will never produce the amount of food we need in 10, 20, or even 30 hours a week. Maybe as we evolve more we'll have robots to do all this, and the we can drastically cut our hours. Don't get me wrong in all this though. Although I make a rather decent living, I could make it off of $20k a year if I had to, and I wouldn't be struggling (just more selective on where I
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
Let's not be so cerebral about it. If someone actually started eating more than their fair share at a potluck we know people would be outraged. That's my point and how some people seem to have been snowed by the rich to make them think it is okay if they have more than their fair share. After all they worked hard for it. What a joke, many of the problematic rich got their money the old fashion way: they inherited it. You have your accidental billionaires which would include Bill Gates, George Lucas, David Geffen who are giving away much of their wealth. They would most likely agree with higher taxes on the rich. Sleepwalkers don't see the problem so easily but current events show that letting people aren't evolved enough to handle that much wealth. I think all but a few million dollars of their wealth ought to be confiscated along with their businesses. On a planet of 7 billion people we don't have time to play games like capitalism. On 12/14/2012 03:49 AM, seekliberation wrote: For me, it depends on how all 12 people pre-determined the splitting up of the 12 pieces. For example, lets say hypothetically that 40 hours of labor are what it take to earn one peice of pie. 5 people do 40 hours worth of consistent and valuable effort. 4 people work, but not quite 40 hours. 2 people consistently show up late, don't cooperate with co-workers, and constantly find excuses not to do as much work as the rest. 1 person doesn't do any work at all. For me, that would change the dividing of the pie quite a bit. I have no problems with socialism or communism, as long as everyone is contributing and government is honest about the distribution. But I don't trust our government, and I have worked long enough to know that not everyone is going to contribute evenly. It's not just enough to re-distribute assets and money, you have to re-distribute work too. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: So you go to a TM potluck. There are 12 people at the potluck including yourself. There is a pie cut into 12 equal pieces. One of the people is a Raja and decrees that he gets 11 pieces of the pie while the rest of you have to split one piece. Now how to you feel about that? On 12/13/2012 04:16 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Is it Thou shalt not have Stockholm Syndrome, or is it Thou shalt not covet? I've never resented anyone having something I don't have or having more than I have. If somebody has the drive to amass more stuff, or create more wealth, let them knock themselves out. We all benefit in the long run. I'm just glad Bill Gates did what he did and Al Gore invented the Internet. From: Bhairitu noozguru@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Of course those greedy bastard Republicans don't want the tax cuts to expire. How else are they going to hoard all the wealth of the country and make you and me slaves? Perhaps you should watch this little video as it will help you understand how you've gotten Stockholm Syndrome being held hostage by Republicans. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc On 12/12/2012 03:42 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: John, the republicans don't want any of the Bush tax cuts to expire. Raising anybodies taxes now will do more harm than good. That's what Obama said the last time he signed their extension.We're headed for another recession regardless. Obamacare and all of it's new taxes is throwing cold water on the economy. Many businesses are refusing to expand because of the new HC mandates and in many cases are shrinking to avoid them. Add to that an increase in other taxes Businesses will be expected to pay and what little growth you see now, will become stagnant or even recessive. Raising taxes on anybody is only defeating the purpose of taxation, to raise revenue. It puts the economy in a death spiral. The only realistic solution is to cut the spending. We keep maxing-out the credit card and then asking for a higher limit with less ability to pay it off each time. If taxes go up on the middle class and poor, I'm sure more will blame republicans because most people want their cake and be able to eat it to. It's like the Chase commercial, who doesn't want more money and who doesn't more *free* things? Everybody wants lower taxes but they also want their freebies and they want somebody else to pay for them. Now that's greed. From: John mailto:jr_esq%40yahoo.com To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:00 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Mike, If the Republicans let the Bush Tax Cut expire, many voters will be angry. I would expect many of the Republicans
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Let's not be so cerebral about it. If someone actually started eating more than their fair share at a potluck we know people would be outraged. That's my point and how some people seem to have been snowed by the rich to make them think it is okay if they have more than their fair share. I can agree with you that there is manipulation and control by some people in power. However, our odds are a lot better here in America than they are in most countries, such as about 10-12 in Europe, plus Australia and Canada. But I will also say at the same time that there is a growing apathy and tendency to try to solve one's own problems through government decisions rather than individual initiative. My problem is that I see it both ways: Government/Big business manipulation combined with a mass society that is growing less self sufficient each day. You seem to lean heavily in the direction of Government/Big Business, while some of the hardcore conservatives on this forum lean heavily towards individual weakness. I see both as a problem. They would most likely agree with higher taxes on the rich. Sleepwalkers don't see the problem so easily but current events show that letting people aren't evolved enough to handle that much wealth. I can agree with you that people aren't evolved enough for the amount of wealth they are capable of amassing. It matters little though whether we go with capatilism, socialism, communism, etc..., our society simply isn't like Europe. We aren't balanced. People either have just enough initiative to gain a favorable advantage and exploit others, or they're too incompetent to solve their own problems. Socialism only works in Europe because you have people who are willing to wake up each day and work, and they don't expect anything extreme in terms of extravagance. We are the exact opposite of that. We have grown to hate work, and we want everything. Bad combination for a long-lasting nation and economy. Our solution isn't in terms of economic policy or government decisions, it is in terms of improving our state of mind. I remember seeing a youtube video of Oliver Stone where he claims America has become a 'sick' country. I think he was really getting to the point with that statement. seekliberation On 12/14/2012 03:49 AM, seekliberation wrote: For me, it depends on how all 12 people pre-determined the splitting up of the 12 pieces. For example, lets say hypothetically that 40 hours of labor are what it take to earn one peice of pie. 5 people do 40 hours worth of consistent and valuable effort. 4 people work, but not quite 40 hours. 2 people consistently show up late, don't cooperate with co-workers, and constantly find excuses not to do as much work as the rest. 1 person doesn't do any work at all. For me, that would change the dividing of the pie quite a bit. I have no problems with socialism or communism, as long as everyone is contributing and government is honest about the distribution. But I don't trust our government, and I have worked long enough to know that not everyone is going to contribute evenly. It's not just enough to re-distribute assets and money, you have to re-distribute work too. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: So you go to a TM potluck. There are 12 people at the potluck including yourself. There is a pie cut into 12 equal pieces. One of the people is a Raja and decrees that he gets 11 pieces of the pie while the rest of you have to split one piece. Now how to you feel about that? On 12/13/2012 04:16 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Is it Thou shalt not have Stockholm Syndrome, or is it Thou shalt not covet? I've never resented anyone having something I don't have or having more than I have. If somebody has the drive to amass more stuff, or create more wealth, let them knock themselves out. We all benefit in the long run. I'm just glad Bill Gates did what he did and Al Gore invented the Internet. From: Bhairitu noozguru@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Of course those greedy bastard Republicans don't want the tax cuts to expire. How else are they going to hoard all the wealth of the country and make you and me slaves? Perhaps you should watch this little video as it will help you understand how you've gotten Stockholm Syndrome being held hostage by Republicans. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc On 12/12/2012 03:42 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: John, the republicans don't want any of the Bush tax cuts to expire. Raising anybodies taxes now will do more harm than good. That's what Obama said
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
On 12/14/2012 09:56 AM, seekliberation wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Let's not be so cerebral about it. If someone actually started eating more than their fair share at a potluck we know people would be outraged. That's my point and how some people seem to have been snowed by the rich to make them think it is okay if they have more than their fair share. I can agree with you that there is manipulation and control by some people in power. However, our odds are a lot better here in America than they are in most countries, such as about 10-12 in Europe, plus Australia and Canada. But I will also say at the same time that there is a growing apathy and tendency to try to solve one's own problems through government decisions rather than individual initiative. My problem is that I see it both ways: Government/Big business manipulation combined with a mass society that is growing less self sufficient each day. You seem to lean heavily in the direction of Government/Big Business, while some of the hardcore conservatives on this forum lean heavily towards individual weakness. I see both as a problem. The problem with the conservatives is that the individual weakness they perceive is mostly imaginary. I guess some of them don't want the money they paid in for Social Security and Medicare. We are owed that. It is not a welfare check. But it seems to take a baseball bat to knock any sense into conservatives. They also think the 99% are lazy. No, many of those people have looked for work, have had good jobs in the past and are highly skilled. It's like they have been purposely shut out of the job market. You have a scenario for a violent revolution because highly educated people are not going to put up with this situation much longer. We know this from history. They would most likely agree with higher taxes on the rich. Sleepwalkers don't see the problem so easily but current events show that letting people aren't evolved enough to handle that much wealth. I can agree with you that people aren't evolved enough for the amount of wealth they are capable of amassing. It matters little though whether we go with capatilism, socialism, communism, etc..., our society simply isn't like Europe. We aren't balanced. People either have just enough initiative to gain a favorable advantage and exploit others, or they're too incompetent to solve their own problems. Socialism only works in Europe because you have people who are willing to wake up each day and work, and they don't expect anything extreme in terms of extravagance. We are the exact opposite of that. We have grown to hate work, and we want everything. Bad combination for a long-lasting nation and economy. Our solution isn't in terms of economic policy or government decisions, it is in terms of improving our state of mind. I remember seeing a youtube video of Oliver Stone where he claims America has become a 'sick' country. I think he was really getting to the point with that statement. seekliberation Then as I have predicted for some time it will take the collapse of the US for change. Don't forget that people in Europe get free medical care, more vacation than US fools. We don't have enough jobs for everyone either. So that issue needs to be addressed. And yes some workers are spoiled. We heard recently that Apple was going assemble one of their products in the US but then not to be missed that Foxconn the next day announced a US facility. Now we here on FFL know the difference between oriental mindsets and Jamie down the street. Which do you think will assemble a Mac properly. Of course they may hire Frank who was an account exec to assemble those machines rather than Jamie. Maybe the solution is a 10 hour week, guaranteed annual income and a new leisure society. And demolish the empty McMansions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The problem with the conservatives is that the individual weakness they perceive is mostly imaginary. No, it's not imaginary. I have quite a few friends and family who are in very bad positions in life right now. They all have some or all of the following things in common: disrespectful attitudes towards parents/teachers during teenage years, high school dropouts, fired from multiple jobs, quit perfectly good jobs, partied most of the time from 18-30 years of age, maxed out credit cards, bought homes WAY out of their annual income rangeand the list goes on and on. When I say all my family and friends fall into at least one of these categories, I don't mean most of themI mean every single one of them. I do love them, and wish them the best. But unfortunately for them, I know what they were all doing for the last 20-30 years, and it certainly wasn't anything in the category of responsibility. Now, that being said, are there no victims of circumstance out there? Of course there are some. Which is the majority? If I went off of my childhood memories, family experiences, and observation of co-workers and friends, my perception is pretty clear. ButI'll go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt that perhaps, for whatever karmic reason, I was simply attracted to people with weak DNA or bad karma themselves, despite the fact that none of them are mentally retarded or physically handicapped in any way. I guess some of them don't want the money they paid in for Social Security and Medicare. We are owed that. I certainly wouldn't deny that. It is not a welfare check. But it seems to take a baseball bat to knock any sense into conservatives. They also think the 99% are lazy. No, many of those people have looked for work, have had good jobs in the past and are highly skilled. Businesses going overseas probably has a lot to do with it, which dfinitely falls in your category of 'greed' being primarily responsible. Immigration to the states also takes 'some' of our jobs. But aside from that, if jobs are scarce, that means the private sector is simply diminishing. It's like they have been purposely shut out of the job market. You have a scenario for a violent revolution because highly educated people are not going to put up with this situation much longer. We know this from history. They would most likely agree with higher taxes on the rich. Higher taxes is a start, but it also has to be accompanied by significant cuts in spending, which is where a majority of the reduction in deficit is going to have to come from. But taxing the rich a bit more, I don't have much of a problem with that, only with the illusion that we're going to balance our budget with that alone. They tried it in Britain a while back, and all the rich people fled the country, or stashed their money where it can't be taxed. Then as I have predicted for some time it will take the collapse of the US for change. Don't forget that people in Europe get free medical care, more vacation than US fools. We don't have enough jobs for everyone either. So that issue needs to be addressed. And yes some workers are spoiled. We heard recently that Apple was going assemble one of their products in the US but then not to be missed that Foxconn the next day announced a US facility. Now we here on FFL know the difference between oriental mindsets and Jamie down the street. Which do you think will assemble a Mac properly. Of course they may hire Frank who was an account exec to assemble those machines rather than Jamie. Maybe the solution is a 10 hour week, guaranteed annual income and a new leisure society. And demolish the empty McMansions. We would never maintain any form of productivity with a 10 hour week. In fact, at no time in history do I believe a mass group of individuals would have ever been able to take care of their entire life only putting forth 10 hours of effort per week. Now, you could work 10 hours a week for an employer if you grew your own garden, had a well in your back yard, and some form of solar/wind power for your home, and you didn't expect to do much (no extravagant vacations, luxaries, etc..). I do know a few people who lived somewhat like that, and yes...their lives are much more free than mine in terms of daily schedule. They just have to live with other inconveniences. seekliberation
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
On 12/14/2012 01:36 PM, seekliberation wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The problem with the conservatives is that the individual weakness they perceive is mostly imaginary. No, it's not imaginary. I have quite a few friends and family who are in very bad positions in life right now. They all have some or all of the following things in common: disrespectful attitudes towards parents/teachers during teenage years, high school dropouts, fired from multiple jobs, quit perfectly good jobs, partied most of the time from 18-30 years of age, maxed out credit cards, bought homes WAY out of their annual income rangeand the list goes on and on. When I say all my family and friends fall into at least one of these categories, I don't mean most of themI mean every single one of them. I do love them, and wish them the best. But unfortunately for them, I know what they were all doing for the last 20-30 years, and it certainly wasn't anything in the category of responsibility. I was thinking more the conservatives bitching about people on welfare or food stamps and not understanding the situation. Or people whose homes have been foreclosed on particularly folks who are seniors and had planned to sell the house and move into some retirement situation but can't sell now or if they do won't get even a modest amount in equity. I was thinking about young kids who just graduated from college maybe even with honors and can't get a job and have a way overpriced education college loan to pay off. Oh sure there are people who used their house as an ATM. I have relatives who did that. They always thought new year would be better. It ain't gonna happen. Now, that being said, are there no victims of circumstance out there? Of course there are some. Which is the majority? If I went off of my childhood memories, family experiences, and observation of co-workers and friends, my perception is pretty clear. ButI'll go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt that perhaps, for whatever karmic reason, I was simply attracted to people with weak DNA or bad karma themselves, despite the fact that none of them are mentally retarded or physically handicapped in any way. I suspect you're old enough to remember the 1970s. I was in my late 20's by then. I recall that we weren't exactly walking on egg shells to survive. I didn't make a lot of money but I wasn't broke either. If you needed an extra job there was always something and something that matched your talents and interests. The 21st century stinks. I guess some of them don't want the money they paid in for Social Security and Medicare. We are owed that. I certainly wouldn't deny that. It is not a welfare check. But it seems to take a baseball bat to knock any sense into conservatives. They also think the 99% are lazy. No, many of those people have looked for work, have had good jobs in the past and are highly skilled. Businesses going overseas probably has a lot to do with it, which dfinitely falls in your category of 'greed' being primarily responsible. Immigration to the states also takes 'some' of our jobs. But aside from that, if jobs are scarce, that means the private sector is simply diminishing. I still wonder how much of that stuff moved overseas is more automated than here. Tech execs would worry if they automated more here then unions would be on their backs. Tech companies aren't usually unionized because there is a solution to that: treat your employees nice. Happy employees = happy customers = happy stockholders. Unfortunately we have some shortsighted execs who only focus on the last group. It's like they have been purposely shut out of the job market. You have a scenario for a violent revolution because highly educated people are not going to put up with this situation much longer. We know this from history. They would most likely agree with higher taxes on the rich. Higher taxes is a start, but it also has to be accompanied by significant cuts in spending, which is where a majority of the reduction in deficit is going to have to come from. But taxing the rich a bit more, I don't have much of a problem with that, only with the illusion that we're going to balance our budget with that alone. They tried it in Britain a while back, and all the rich people fled the country, or stashed their money where it can't be taxed. The British socialism of the mid-20th century was a bit too draconian. I have some friends whose parents fled due to that. The lesson to be learned from the French and Russian revolutions is to not allow things to get too out of whack the other direction. Society never seems to learn from history. Then as I have predicted for some time it will take the collapse of the US for change. Don't forget that people in Europe get free medical care, more
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: India? That's where I learned that it was difficult for companies to find people who wanted to work anymore than 2 hours a day. It's the scale of the economy. It appears the same thing exists in the Middle East (another thing that pisses off the western establishment). What if working only 10 hours a week paid all your living expenses and more? Once again things were a lot more in balance in the 1970s and they are way out of whack today. India and the middle east are definitely examples of a life that Americans will ever want to gravitate towards. I've been to the middle east, and there are entire villages full of children with lip fungus because they have no soap to wash their hands with, and no toilet paper. If someone is seriously hurt or their house is on firesucks to be them, no fire dept, no police, no paramedics. Education? Not doing to good there either (perhaps some developed areas in India or okay, if you're from a wealthier family). They are, however, capable of surviving for a lifetime (for the most part). I think it's all just a matter of how much convenience you want. Americans want a hell of a lot, so in turn, we have to work a lot. However, few people realize the only reason we became the economic power we are is due to all the slavery prior to the industrial revolution. Take that away, and we'd probably be living just like a 2nd or 3rd world country. seekliberation
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
On 12/14/2012 07:31 PM, seekliberation wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: India? That's where I learned that it was difficult for companies to find people who wanted to work anymore than 2 hours a day. It's the scale of the economy. It appears the same thing exists in the Middle East (another thing that pisses off the western establishment). What if working only 10 hours a week paid all your living expenses and more? Once again things were a lot more in balance in the 1970s and they are way out of whack today. India and the middle east are definitely examples of a life that Americans will ever want to gravitate towards. I've been to the middle east, and there are entire villages full of children with lip fungus because they have no soap to wash their hands with, and no toilet paper. If someone is seriously hurt or their house is on firesucks to be them, no fire dept, no police, no paramedics. Education? Not doing to good there either (perhaps some developed areas in India or okay, if you're from a wealthier family). They are, however, capable of surviving for a lifetime (for the most part). I think it's all just a matter of how much convenience you want. Americans want a hell of a lot, so in turn, we have to work a lot. However, few people realize the only reason we became the economic power we are is due to all the slavery prior to the industrial revolution. Take that away, and we'd probably be living just like a 2nd or 3rd world country. seekliberation Try expanding your mind a little more and visualize what the US would be like if folks worked less and lead a simpler life. First off we already have the advantage of cheap technology which trumps the problems you mention with the middle east. We have toilet paper. We have medical knowledge and with technology we can give people a lot more medical care without having to use expensive doctors so much. We have police, we have fire department we have paramedics. They even might enjoy a 10 hour work week too. Stretch your imagination more. We only have 40 hour work weeks because the industrial age tycoons wanted wage slaves. And at that it took unions to reduce the hours though hogs wanted and keep them from using children too. Contrary to popular belief, work is NOT the purpose of life. We need a leaner cleaner world not the clutter materialistic one which only benefits the few rich who scam the populace by selling them needless things. Celebrate December 22nd the way it was meant to be celebrated with global change. Throw the rich bums out!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
Of course those greedy bastard Republicans don't want the tax cuts to expire. How else are they going to hoard all the wealth of the country and make you and me slaves? Perhaps you should watch this little video as it will help you understand how you've gotten Stockholm Syndrome being held hostage by Republicans. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc On 12/12/2012 03:42 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: John, the republicans don't want any of the Bush tax cuts to expire. Raising anybodies taxes now will do more harm than good. That's what Obama said the last time he signed their extension.We're headed for another recession regardless. Obamacare and all of it's new taxes is throwing cold water on the economy. Many businesses are refusing to expand because of the new HC mandates and in many cases are shrinking to avoid them. Add to that an increase in other taxes Businesses will be expected to pay and what little growth you see now, will become stagnant or even recessive. Raising taxes on anybody is only defeating the purpose of taxation, to raise revenue. It puts the economy in a death spiral. The only realistic solution is to cut the spending. We keep maxing-out the credit card and then asking for a higher limit with less ability to pay it off each time. If taxes go up on the middle class and poor, I'm sure more will blame republicans because most people want their cake and be able to eat it to. It's like the Chase commercial, who doesn't want more money and who doesn't more *free* things? Everybody wants lower taxes but they also want their freebies and they want somebody else to pay for them. Now that's greed. From: John jr_...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:00 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Mike, If the Republicans let the Bush Tax Cut expire, many voters will be angry. I would expect many of the Republicans will be voted out in the next congressional elections. Stay tuned. As Bernanke has warned, there is the possibility that the increase in taxes to the middle class will negatively affect the economy. There could very well be another recession. However, the stock market appears to be holding its own during the past few days' activities. Maybe the market has already calculated the effects of the fiscal cliff controversy. We'll know the answer for sure on New Year's day. JR --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: John ,the voters that put Republicans in their seats, put them their to hold the line on taxes, not to do El Presidente's bidding. Remember the consequences of *read my lips, no new taxes*? Bush made the same mistake Reagan made, he believed the Democrats when they begged *if you'll only agree to a little more taxes, we'll agree to much less spending*. Well ,they agreed to more taxes and the dems NEVER came through with their promises of less spending. What's the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ,shame on me! If Republicans agree to higher taxes, there will be hell to pay from their voters. From: John jr_esq@... To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:47 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians  --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html Yeah. And then, let the Republicans look like fools if they argue *against lowering taxes* for the working class January 3rd. It's the best possible political outcome for Democrats. They get what they want by doing nothing while Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. http://youtu.be/gMuA8I2M5l0 The voters should realize by now that they should vote their Republican representatives OUT in the next election.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
Make the federal government lease out all federal land for drilling, in California and all the Western states including Alaska, so that the U.S. can become independent of OPEC oil imports within five years. Raise the federal tax on foreign fuel. Bhairitu: So you want to destroy our federal parks system? A country that is bankrupt can't afford to have national parks, if it means the people will starve. Your public sector unions have squeezed almost every fringe benefit out of your state government out there. I'm voting NOT to bail out California - you should be paying $50 a gallon for foreign oil. Yesterday I saw a Lexus, a Mercedes, and a BMW parked in the employees parking lot at the U.S. Post Office. These are not the demands of people who have the state's well-being in mind. 'California's Pampered Public Employees' http://tinyurl.com/anz73r5
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
On 12/13/2012 01:12 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Make the federal government lease out all federal land for drilling, in California and all the Western states including Alaska, so that the U.S. can become independent of OPEC oil imports within five years. Raise the federal tax on foreign fuel. Bhairitu: So you want to destroy our federal parks system? A country that is bankrupt can't afford to have national parks, if it means the people will starve. Your public sector unions have squeezed almost every fringe benefit out of your state government out there. I'm voting NOT to bail out California - you should be paying $50 a gallon for foreign oil. Yesterday I saw a Lexus, a Mercedes, and a BMW parked in the employees parking lot at the U.S. Post Office. These are not the demands of people who have the state's well-being in mind. 'California's Pampered Public Employees' http://tinyurl.com/anz73r5 Sounds like the Republicans have inflicted Stockholm Syndrome on you too. So where were you back during the boom days when your Republican buddies were spend, spend, spend too? They still want to give welfare to the military industrial complex. Start by cutting there.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
Is it Thou shalt not have Stockholm Syndrome, or is it Thou shalt not covet? I've never resented anyone having something I don't have or having more than I have. If somebody has the drive to amass more stuff, or create more wealth, let them knock themselves out. We all benefit in the long run. I'm just glad Bill Gates did what he did and Al Gore invented the Internet. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Of course those greedy bastard Republicans don't want the tax cuts to expire. How else are they going to hoard all the wealth of the country and make you and me slaves? Perhaps you should watch this little video as it will help you understand how you've gotten Stockholm Syndrome being held hostage by Republicans. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc On 12/12/2012 03:42 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: John, the republicans don't want any of the Bush tax cuts to expire. Raising anybodies taxes now will do more harm than good. That's what Obama said the last time he signed their extension.We're headed for another recession regardless. Obamacare and all of it's new taxes is throwing cold water on the economy. Many businesses are refusing to expand because of the new HC mandates and in many cases are shrinking to avoid them. Add to that an increase in other taxes Businesses will be expected to pay and what little growth you see now, will become stagnant or even recessive. Raising taxes on anybody is only defeating the purpose of taxation, to raise revenue. It puts the economy in a death spiral. The only realistic solution is to cut the spending. We keep maxing-out the credit card and then asking for a higher limit with less ability to pay it off each time. If taxes go up on the middle class and poor, I'm sure more will blame republicans because most people want their cake and be able to eat it to. It's like the Chase commercial, who doesn't want more money and who doesn't more *free* things? Everybody wants lower taxes but they also want their freebies and they want somebody else to pay for them. Now that's greed. From: John mailto:jr_esq%40yahoo.com To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:00 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Mike, If the Republicans let the Bush Tax Cut expire, many voters will be angry. I would expect many of the Republicans will be voted out in the next congressional elections. Stay tuned. As Bernanke has warned, there is the possibility that the increase in taxes to the middle class will negatively affect the economy. There could very well be another recession. However, the stock market appears to be holding its own during the past few days' activities. Maybe the market has already calculated the effects of the fiscal cliff controversy. We'll know the answer for sure on New Year's day. JR --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: John ,the voters that put Republicans in their seats, put them their to hold the line on taxes, not to do El Presidente's bidding. Remember the consequences of *read my lips, no new taxes*? Bush made the same mistake Reagan made, he believed the Democrats when they begged *if you'll only agree to a little more taxes, we'll agree to much less spending*. Well ,they agreed to more taxes and the dems NEVER came through with their promises of less spending. What's the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ,shame on me! If Republicans agree to higher taxes, there will be hell to pay from their voters. From: John jr_esq@... To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:47 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians  --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html Yeah. And then, let the Republicans look like fools if they argue *against lowering taxes* for the working class January 3rd. It's the best possible political outcome for Democrats. They get what they want by doing nothing while Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. http://youtu.be/gMuA8I2M5l0 The voters should realize by now that they should vote their Republican representatives OUT
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
So you go to a TM potluck. There are 12 people at the potluck including yourself. There is a pie cut into 12 equal pieces. One of the people is a Raja and decrees that he gets 11 pieces of the pie while the rest of you have to split one piece. Now how to you feel about that? On 12/13/2012 04:16 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Is it Thou shalt not have Stockholm Syndrome, or is it Thou shalt not covet? I've never resented anyone having something I don't have or having more than I have. If somebody has the drive to amass more stuff, or create more wealth, let them knock themselves out. We all benefit in the long run. I'm just glad Bill Gates did what he did and Al Gore invented the Internet. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Of course those greedy bastard Republicans don't want the tax cuts to expire. How else are they going to hoard all the wealth of the country and make you and me slaves? Perhaps you should watch this little video as it will help you understand how you've gotten Stockholm Syndrome being held hostage by Republicans. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc On 12/12/2012 03:42 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: John, the republicans don't want any of the Bush tax cuts to expire. Raising anybodies taxes now will do more harm than good. That's what Obama said the last time he signed their extension.We're headed for another recession regardless. Obamacare and all of it's new taxes is throwing cold water on the economy. Many businesses are refusing to expand because of the new HC mandates and in many cases are shrinking to avoid them. Add to that an increase in other taxes Businesses will be expected to pay and what little growth you see now, will become stagnant or even recessive. Raising taxes on anybody is only defeating the purpose of taxation, to raise revenue. It puts the economy in a death spiral. The only realistic solution is to cut the spending. We keep maxing-out the credit card and then asking for a higher limit with less ability to pay it off each time. If taxes go up on the middle class and poor, I'm sure more will blame republicans because most people want their cake and be able to eat it to. It's like the Chase commercial, who doesn't want more money and who doesn't more *free* things? Everybody wants lower taxes but they also want their freebies and they want somebody else to pay for them. Now that's greed. From: John mailto:jr_esq%40yahoo.com To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:00 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Mike, If the Republicans let the Bush Tax Cut expire, many voters will be angry. I would expect many of the Republicans will be voted out in the next congressional elections. Stay tuned. As Bernanke has warned, there is the possibility that the increase in taxes to the middle class will negatively affect the economy. There could very well be another recession. However, the stock market appears to be holding its own during the past few days' activities. Maybe the market has already calculated the effects of the fiscal cliff controversy. We'll know the answer for sure on New Year's day. JR --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: John ,the voters that put Republicans in their seats, put them their to hold the line on taxes, not to do El Presidente's bidding. Remember the consequences of *read my lips, no new taxes*? Bush made the same mistake Reagan made, he believed the Democrats when they begged *if you'll only agree to a little more taxes, we'll agree to much less spending*. Well ,they agreed to more taxes and the dems NEVER came through with their promises of less spending. What's the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ,shame on me! If Republicans agree to higher taxes, there will be hell to pay from their voters. From: John jr_esq@... To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:47 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians  --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html Yeah. And then, let the Republicans look like fools
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
I don't go to TM pot lucks. But if I brought the pie, I would honor the Raja and take one twelfth of the pie and divide it into eleven pieces and give them all to him and share the rest with the other eleven. However if the raja made the pie and brought it, I would say thank you for a bite of your pie Bevin,do you have any room for one of my Somasas? From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians So you go to a TM potluck. There are 12 people at the potluck including yourself. There is a pie cut into 12 equal pieces. One of the people is a Raja and decrees that he gets 11 pieces of the pie while the rest of you have to split one piece. Now how to you feel about that? On 12/13/2012 04:16 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: Is it Thou shalt not have Stockholm Syndrome, or is it Thou shalt not covet? I've never resented anyone having something I don't have or having more than I have. If somebody has the drive to amass more stuff, or create more wealth, let them knock themselves out. We all benefit in the long run. I'm just glad Bill Gates did what he did and Al Gore invented the Internet. From: Bhairitu mailto:noozguru%40sbcglobal.net To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Of course those greedy bastard Republicans don't want the tax cuts to expire. How else are they going to hoard all the wealth of the country and make you and me slaves? Perhaps you should watch this little video as it will help you understand how you've gotten Stockholm Syndrome being held hostage by Republicans. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc On 12/12/2012 03:42 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: John, the republicans don't want any of the Bush tax cuts to expire. Raising anybodies taxes now will do more harm than good. That's what Obama said the last time he signed their extension.We're headed for another recession regardless. Obamacare and all of it's new taxes is throwing cold water on the economy. Many businesses are refusing to expand because of the new HC mandates and in many cases are shrinking to avoid them. Add to that an increase in other taxes Businesses will be expected to pay and what little growth you see now, will become stagnant or even recessive. Raising taxes on anybody is only defeating the purpose of taxation, to raise revenue. It puts the economy in a death spiral. The only realistic solution is to cut the spending. We keep maxing-out the credit card and then asking for a higher limit with less ability to pay it off each time. If taxes go up on the middle class and poor, I'm sure more will blame republicans because most people want their cake and be able to eat it to. It's like the Chase commercial, who doesn't want more money and who doesn't more *free* things? Everybody wants lower taxes but they also want their freebies and they want somebody else to pay for them. Now that's greed. From: John mailto:jr_esq%40yahoo.com To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:00 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Mike, If the Republicans let the Bush Tax Cut expire, many voters will be angry. I would expect many of the Republicans will be voted out in the next congressional elections. Stay tuned. As Bernanke has warned, there is the possibility that the increase in taxes to the middle class will negatively affect the economy. There could very well be another recession. However, the stock market appears to be holding its own during the past few days' activities. Maybe the market has already calculated the effects of the fiscal cliff controversy. We'll know the answer for sure on New Year's day. JR --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: John ,the voters that put Republicans in their seats, put them their to hold the line on taxes, not to do El Presidente's bidding. Remember the consequences of *read my lips, no new taxes*? Bush made the same mistake Reagan made, he believed the Democrats when they begged *if you'll only agree to a little more taxes, we'll agree to much less spending*. Well ,they agreed to more taxes and the dems NEVER came through with their promises of less spending. What's the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ,shame on me! If Republicans agree to higher taxes, there will be hell to pay from their voters. From: John jr_esq@... To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:47 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
JR, bingo! Yes, we are broke and raising taxes on the *rich*, back to Clinton era levels, will only run the Government an extra 8-9 days a year. Big deal, whoop-ti-do! CBO also agrees, raising those taxes, could also have the effect of more job loss, compounding the problem of less government revenue. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. What I don't get is that everybody on the left said that the *Bush tax cuts* were only for the rich and did nothing for the middle class or the poor, yet now they scream at the thought of their taxes going back to what Clinton raised them to, except on the so called *rich*, which they demand. Entitlement spending is what's driving our debt and that is what needs to be dealt with. It seems that everybody has their hand out wanting their free Obama phone, free Hovaround, free abortions and birth control , you name it, somebody expects the tax payer to buy it for them. Whatever happened to the concept of personal responsibility?If something is worth having, it's worth working for. I remember a very smart president that said in his inauguration speech,*ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.* It's time we start living that again. No way the government should be bailing ANYBODY out. That means banks, industries, companies, social groups,ethnic groups and individuals. As long as the government can play Santa Claus, the concept of *land of the free and home of the brave* is doomed. Merry effin Christmas!;) From: John jr_...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Mike, Let's be honest. We're broke. That's what Boehner said today. http://news.yahoo.com/gops-boehner-says-obama-slow-walking-cliff-talks-180429101.html If that's the case, why don't the Republicans raise the taxes on the rich? JR --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: But isn't that what Clinton wanted? Remember the good 'ol days of government prosperity? Raising taxes on the *rich*, back to Clinton levels, will only run the Gubment another 8 days a year. Let's screw everybody, especially the poor. It's time to stop subsidizing poverty. The more the government subsidizes poverty , the more of it we get. I'd like to see those earning below the poverty line paying MORE in taxes than those earning just  above that line. If we can discourage people from bad behavior like smoking, drinking ,driving and being comfortable in home and workplace, through higher taxes, then we should do the same for being lazy. Tax the *F* out of those able, but unwilling, to work. From: John jr_esq@... To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Voter Frustration Over Politicians  It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
John ,the voters that put Republicans in their seats, put them their to hold the line on taxes, not to do El Presidente's bidding. Remember the consequences of *read my lips, no new taxes*? Bush made the same mistake Reagan made, he believed the Democrats when they begged *if you'll only agree to a little more taxes, we'll agree to much less spending*. Well ,they agreed to more taxes and the dems NEVER came through with their promises of less spending. What's the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ,shame on me! If Republicans agree to higher taxes, there will be hell to pay from their voters. From: John jr_...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:47 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html Yeah. And then, let the Republicans look like fools if they argue *against lowering taxes* for the working class January 3rd. It's the best possible political outcome for Democrats. They get what they want by doing nothing while Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. http://youtu.be/gMuA8I2M5l0 The voters should realize by now that they should vote their Republican representatives OUT in the next election.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
Mike, If the Republicans let the Bush Tax Cut expire, many voters will be angry. I would expect many of the Republicans will be voted out in the next congressional elections. Stay tuned. As Bernanke has warned, there is the possibility that the increase in taxes to the middle class will negatively affect the economy. There could very well be another recession. However, the stock market appears to be holding its own during the past few days' activities. Maybe the market has already calculated the effects of the fiscal cliff controversy. We'll know the answer for sure on New Year's day. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: John ,the voters that put Republicans in their seats, put them their to hold the line on taxes, not to do El Presidente's bidding. Remember the consequences of *read my lips, no new taxes*? Bush made the same mistake Reagan made, he believed the Democrats when they begged *if you'll only agree to a little more taxes, we'll agree to much less spending*. Well ,they agreed to more taxes and the dems NEVER came through with their promises of less spending. What's the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ,shame on me! If Republicans agree to higher taxes, there will be hell to pay from their voters. From: John jr_esq@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:47 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians  --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html Yeah. And then, let the Republicans look like fools if they argue *against lowering taxes* for the working class January 3rd. It's the best possible political outcome for Democrats. They get what they want by doing nothing while Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. http://youtu.be/gMuA8I2M5l0 The voters should realize by now that they should vote their Republican representatives OUT in the next election.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
John, the republicans don't want any of the Bush tax cuts to expire. Raising anybodies taxes now will do more harm than good. That's what Obama said the last time he signed their extension.We're headed for another recession regardless. Obamacare and all of it's new taxes is throwing cold water on the economy. Many businesses are refusing to expand because of the new HC mandates and in many cases are shrinking to avoid them. Add to that an increase in other taxes Businesses will be expected to pay and what little growth you see now, will become stagnant or even recessive. Raising taxes on anybody is only defeating the purpose of taxation, to raise revenue. It puts the economy in a death spiral. The only realistic solution is to cut the spending. We keep maxing-out the credit card and then asking for a higher limit with less ability to pay it off each time. If taxes go up on the middle class and poor, I'm sure more will blame republicans because most people want their cake and be able to eat it to. It's like the Chase commercial, who doesn't want more money and who doesn't more *free* things? Everybody wants lower taxes but they also want their freebies and they want somebody else to pay for them. Now that's greed. From: John jr_...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:00 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians Mike, If the Republicans let the Bush Tax Cut expire, many voters will be angry. I would expect many of the Republicans will be voted out in the next congressional elections. Stay tuned. As Bernanke has warned, there is the possibility that the increase in taxes to the middle class will negatively affect the economy. There could very well be another recession. However, the stock market appears to be holding its own during the past few days' activities. Maybe the market has already calculated the effects of the fiscal cliff controversy. We'll know the answer for sure on New Year's day. JR --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: John ,the voters that put Republicans in their seats, put them their to hold the line on taxes, not to do El Presidente's bidding. Remember the consequences of *read my lips, no new taxes*? Bush made the same mistake Reagan made, he believed the Democrats when they begged *if you'll only agree to a little more taxes, we'll agree to much less spending*. Well ,they agreed to more taxes and the dems NEVER came through with their promises of less spending. What's the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ,shame on me! If Republicans agree to higher taxes, there will be hell to pay from their voters. From: John jr_esq@... To: mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:47 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians  --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html Yeah. And then, let the Republicans look like fools if they argue *against lowering taxes* for the working class January 3rd. It's the best possible political outcome for Democrats. They get what they want by doing nothing while Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. http://youtu.be/gMuA8I2M5l0 The voters should realize by now that they should vote their Republican representatives OUT in the next election.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@... wrote: It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html Yeah. And then, let the Republicans look like fools if they argue *against lowering taxes* for the working class January 3rd. It's the best possible political outcome for Democrats. They get what they want by doing nothing while Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. http://youtu.be/gMuA8I2M5l0
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy... Bhairitu: Or we could have a tax strike. People could go to their HR departments and raise the exceptions on their tax withholding and bankrupt the government. News flash! The U.S. Government is already bankrupt. We can no longer afford a Plutocracy or there WILL be a violent revolution that will make Greece look like a Sunday picnic. How you gonna have a violent revolution when you don't even attend 'Tea Parties' to protest government spending or even own a weapon? Most people pay little or no federal income tax because of low salaries, exemptions and federal tax credits. When federal income taxes are increased, less tax is collected. I'm in favor of zero income tax, or maybe a flat tax; it's time for the folks working to pay their fair share. Most of the taxes you pay are probably state taxes and taxes on purchases. Here is my plan: Make the federal government lease out all federal land for drilling, in California and all the Western states including Alaska, so that the U.S. can become independent of OPEC oil imports within five years. Raise the federal tax on foreign fuel. 'High Expectations for the Eagle Ford Shale' http://tinyurl.com/cdf6aqb
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
Mike, Let's be honest. We're broke. That's what Boehner said today. http://news.yahoo.com/gops-boehner-says-obama-slow-walking-cliff-talks-180429101.html If that's the case, why don't the Republicans raise the taxes on the rich? JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: But isn't that what Clinton wanted? Remember the good 'ol days of government prosperity? Raising taxes on the *rich*, back to Clinton levels, will only run the Gubment another 8 days a year. Let's screw everybody, especially the poor. It's time to stop subsidizing poverty. The more the government subsidizes poverty , the more of it we get. I'd like to see those earning below the poverty line paying MORE in taxes than those earning just  above that line. If we can discourage people from bad behavior like smoking, drinking ,driving and being comfortable in home and workplace, through higher taxes, then we should do the same for being lazy. Tax the *F* out of those able, but unwilling, to work. From: John jr_esq@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Voter Frustration Over Politicians  It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html Yeah. And then, let the Republicans look like fools if they argue *against lowering taxes* for the working class January 3rd. It's the best possible political outcome for Democrats. They get what they want by doing nothing while Republicans shoot themselves in the foot. http://youtu.be/gMuA8I2M5l0 The voters should realize by now that they should vote their Republican representatives OUT in the next election.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
On 12/11/2012 10:30 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy... Bhairitu: Or we could have a tax strike. People could go to their HR departments and raise the exceptions on their tax withholding and bankrupt the government. News flash! The U.S. Government is already bankrupt. We can no longer afford a Plutocracy or there WILL be a violent revolution that will make Greece look like a Sunday picnic. How you gonna have a violent revolution when you don't even attend 'Tea Parties' to protest government spending or even own a weapon? Where did I say I would be part of the violent revolution? History repeats itself but I don't think it is the Tea Party boobs who would revolt even though they should. Where the mood is now (in Michigan and not about taxes but...) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdsjPiX3aGU Most people pay little or no federal income tax because of low salaries, exemptions and federal tax credits. When federal income taxes are increased, less tax is collected. The Plutocrats made out like bandits because of the Bush tax cuts. Leave the tax cuts for the middle class in place and raise taxes on those making over $250K a little. Or there will be blood. I'm in favor of zero income tax, or maybe a flat tax; it's time for the folks working to pay their fair share. Most of the taxes you pay are probably state taxes and taxes on purchases. How about no tax until you have an estate worth $250K? Here is my plan: Make the federal government lease out all federal land for drilling, in California and all the Western states including Alaska, so that the U.S. can become independent of OPEC oil imports within five years. Raise the federal tax on foreign fuel. So you want to destroy our federal parks system?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voter Frustration Over Politicians
Explaining Socialism to a Republican/Libertarian: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/12/11/explaining-socialism-to-a-republican/ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Look it up. Nixon also started that commie organization the EPA. And if you are to believe a scene in Frost/Nixon he didn't much care for the rich either. My how times have changed. On 12/11/2012 01:58 PM, Share Long wrote: Ok, that one grabs my attention. Really? Nixon proposed a guaranteed annual income?! Do you think it was merely a political move? From: Bhairitu noozguru@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Voter Frustration Over Politicians Who says that people who cannot find work are lazy? There are plenty of well qualified workers who can't find work. There isn't enough work for the working population. How are we subsidizing poverty? You know who the biggest welfare recipients are? The military industrial complex. So let's start there if you want to stop welfare. OTOH, I'm all for stipends for everyone or what was once called a guaranteed annual income proposed by that old commie . Richard M. Nixon. On 12/11/2012 11:20 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: But isn't that what Clinton wanted? Remember the good 'ol days of government prosperity? Raising taxes on the *rich*, back to Clinton levels, will only run the Gubment another 8 days a year. Let's screw everybody, especially the poor. It's time to stop subsidizing poverty. The more the government subsidizes poverty , the more of it we get. I'd like to see those earning below the poverty line paying MORE in taxes than those earning just above that line. If we can discourage people from bad behavior like smoking, drinking ,driving and being comfortable in home and workplace, through higher taxes, then we should do the same for being lazy. Tax the *F* out of those able, but unwilling, to work. From: John jr_esq@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Voter Frustration Over Politicians It should be clear to everyone by now that the Republicans are not going to approve any higher tax rate for the wealthy. As such, they will let the Bush Tax Cut legislation expire. And, we'll be stuck with paying higher income taxes beginning on January 1, 2013. http://news.yahoo.com/voter-disdain-spreads-fiscal-cliff-looms-085417763--finance.html
