[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Not all quantum physicists are lazy, Jason, but the resident science writers on this forum sure seem to be so. One guy is a true believer in human levitation and the other guy still prays to the Hindu gods twice a day. One other informant seems to think that shunning works as a debate tactic when he reads something he doesn't agree with or doesn't like, so he files it away in a fluff folder using Yahoo Mail. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : According to you, all the quantum physicists are lazy? I suppose assuming about spirits and soul, is hard scientific work? You sure are a hard ass. --- inmadison@... wrote : just say We don't know but the event is analyzable . . . then go home and have dinner with the SO. Instead of calling it 'random' - which is just woo for science folks who are afraid the conversation might degrade into talking about spirits or the soul.But then, I'm a hard ass : ) Claiming some event is random just means the event is too complicated and we don't understand it yet. So there is no calling a thing random, that is only being lazy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Which stretches from southeastern Europe on the Black Sea all the way into Asia on the Caspian Sea, so if your progenitors came from the more northwestern part of the Caucasus region, the scholars are still correct - southern Europe. From: j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2015 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random? My paternal haplogroup, which occurs almost exclusively in a small percentage of Ashkenazi Jews, originated in the Caucasus region. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackso...@yahoo.com wrote : No one knows where the Ashkenazim came from but most scholars think they started in southern Italy and other parts of southern Europe. From: jason_gre...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2015 8:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random? By the logical extension of your own argument, the entire north america should be handed over to the Red Indians. They were the original inhabitants of the Americas. Many ethnic groups all over the world don't have a seperate country of their own. That is not necessary either. The Ashkanaz jews were central asian converts and they never lived in Israel. They are the ones who migrated to europe. Besides, there was never any need to partition the territory. A special arrangement could have been made for those sephardim jews who wanted to settle down there, without disturbing the indigenous people who were already there. --- richard@... wrote : You need to read some history books. The people of Judea were there long before the Arabs invaded the land and tried to kill all the Jews. Do you have any historical evidence that proves the Arabs were in Judea before it was called Judea? I think not. Judea and Samaria is the West Bank! They don't call it the 'Land of Judea' for nothing! Human settlement in Judea stretches back to the Stone Age. The Israelites lived in Jericho, back in 1025 B.C. It's a fact of history that this land was invaded by the Arabs in 636 A.D. The prevailing opinion today is that the Israelites, who eventually evolved into the modern Jews and Samaritans, are an outgrowth of the indigenous Canaanites who had resided in the area since the 8th millennium BCE. Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | | | | | | Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Israelites (/ˈɪzriəˌlaɪts, -reɪ-/)[1] were a Semitic people of the Ancient Near East, who inhabited part of Canaan during the tribal and monarchic periods (15th... | | | View on en.wikipedia.org| Preview by Yahoo | | | --- jason_green2@... wrote : Stop this bullshit willytex. No referendum was held in that territory. God is not a real estate dealer. The UN stole that land from indigenous people. They called other communities dogs for centuries. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. (Mark 7:25-26). And He was saying to her, Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. (Mark 7:27). The Jews called the Gentiles dogs in the same way we would call someone a bitch (Matthew 7:6; Philippians 3:2; Revelation 22:15). It was a term of contempt. --- richard@... wrote : According to what I've read, so-called non-Zionist Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint--as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture. Zionism is used in the strict sense of the Jews should have a homeland, preferably Israel (Israel is where Zion is, hence Zionism). Criticizing today's Israeli government regarding policies is not the same as anti-Zionism. -- jr_esq@... wrote : Jason, There are still Jews who consider themselves as the Chosen People here in the USA. They may or may not be Zioneists. Nonetheless, they follow several hundred laws relating to food, behavior and worship. They still frown upon intermarriage with outsiders or goyim. I've posted the videos of Rabbis Kraft and Mizrachi and you should watch them for verification. And they don't definitely consider themselves descendants of apes from Africa. ---jr_esq@... wrote : No,I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written byBhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and thecosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week orso. Butit is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
just say We don't know but the event is analyzable . . . then go home and have dinner with the SO. Instead of calling it 'random' - which is just woo for science folks who are afraid the conversation might degrade into talking about spirits or the soul. But then, I'm a hard ass : )
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
We show that European and Near Eastern lineages largely fall into discrete, ancient clusters, with minor episodes of gene flow, suggesting that haplogroup K diversified separately in Europe and the Near East during the last glacial period. http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/pdf/ncomms3543.pdf http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/pdf/ncomms3543.pdf ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, inmadison@... wrote : just say We don't know but the event is analyzable . . . then go home and have dinner with the SO. Instead of calling it 'random' - which is just woo for science folks who are afraid the conversation might degrade into talking about spirits or the soul. But then, I'm a hard ass : )
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
According to you, all the quantum physicists are lazy? I suppose assuming about spirits and soul, is hard scientific work? You sure are a hard ass. --- inmadison@... wrote : just say We don't know but the event is analyzable . . . then go home and have dinner with the SO. Instead of calling it 'random' - which is just woo for science folks who are afraid the conversation might degrade into talking about spirits or the soul.But then, I'm a hard ass : ) Claiming some event is random just means the event is too complicated and we don't understand it yet. So there is no calling a thing random, that is only being lazy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
--- anartaxius@... wrote : This is not necessarily so. Comments in your text. I'd like to riff on this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : Xeno, let's use a little logic here. If you existed before you were born, you will continue to exist after you die. If you didn't exist before you were born, you will not exist after you die. There are multiple possibilities here: 1. You could exist before you were born, be born and live, then die and not exist. That's what happens when, what eastern phil call enlightenment happens. 2. You could exist before you were born, be born and live, then die and exist. That's reincarnation, crux of the eastern phil. 3. You could exist before you were born, be stillborn dead, and then exist. 4. You could exist before you were born, be stillborn dead, and then not exist. 5. You could not exist before you were born, be born and live, and then die and not exist. If there is no such thing as individual jiva, a bundle of subtle vasanas, yes. 6. You could not exist before you were born, be born and live, and then die and exist Yes, but you still would have to cease at some point. That which has a beginning must have an end. 7. You could not exist before you were born, be stillborn and dead, and then exist. 8. You could not exist before you were born, be stillborn and dead, and then not exist. (This last one is a real bummer, but of course you would never know) An infinite regress and infinite progress of incarnations is not possible. All things have a beginning and an end. The reverse of this is your point no. 5. In both the scenarios, there is no hope of enlightenment. In the first scenario you are in eternal bondage. In the second scenario, your condition though hopeless, is comparatively more merciful. What is not so clear is how these various scenarios could work out to be true. Simply saying there is a law of karma and that it is 'subtler' than the laws of physics. is just a way of avoiding describing how the whole thing works, and whether there is any evidence that could support the idea. The laws of physics describe things that are far beyond the ability of the human nervous system to perceive or feel or even experience, but they are not necessarily beyond the ability of machines to detect, which allows us to experience those things by proxy as a mental construct, but never directly. Karma is the theory of cause and effect, action and reaction. In other words it's balance. Yes, no direct proof, but the fact that you exist and have all these experiences should make you ponder. First of all, what does one mean when we use the word 'you'. Is it the same 'you' before birth, at birth and in life, and after death, or what? The experience of, or perhaps, the knowledge of, being as an undefined attribute-less substratum of all existence that remains before, during, and after bodies are born and perish might be considered one's existence, but it then excludes the life of the body with its mental panorama and personality (what we normally consider a person) as being what the 'you' really are. That personality is not what is maintained throughout birth and death in this case. In this case 'you' is your self or being. On the other hand if what people normally consider a person is is somehow maintained through the mill of birth and death, the 'you' that we usually mean when we talk to someone, how does that happen? How is the essence of that personality stored in between births, and where is it stored, and how is it reconstituted? This all seems extraordinarily vague to me; people tell me it does, and leave it at that, which means they do not know otherwise they could explain it. My view of birth and death is this: All things that exist have being. Being is an abstract principle that all things, individually and collectively (that is, the universe as a whole) have. Being is equivalent of having existence, no matter what kind or how. It is totally obvious, anything that exists has being. It is a definition. When the human mind and senses experience an aspect of this being and loses sight as it were, of the connectivity of existence, the totality of all the separate beings together, it experiences this aspect of being as a separate object or thing, and thus the being, which appears to have the property of consciousness under certain circumstances (such as when an aspect of being is a nervous system complex enough to have senses and a decent CPU, is 'born' as that object, not because something is happening, but because the perception and knowledge of timeless eternity is lost in that perception. If the totality of being is not lost in perception and knowledge, then nothing is born or dies. So the reality or non reality of birth and death is really just a matter of how narrow or wide perception and knowledge is. The
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
By the logical extension of your own argument, the entire north america should be handed over to the Red Indians. They were the original inhabitants of the Americas. Many ethnic groups all over the world don't have a seperate country of their own. That is not necessary either. The Ashkanaz jews were central asian converts and they never lived in Israel. They are the ones who migrated to europe. Besides, there was never any need to partition the territory. A special arrangement could have been made for those sephardim jews who wanted to settle down there, without disturbing the indigenous people who were already there. --- richard@... wrote : You need to read some history books. The people of Judea were there long before the Arabs invaded the land and tried to kill all the Jews. Do you have any historical evidence that proves the Arabs were in Judea before it was called Judea? I think not. Judea and Samaria is the West Bank! They don't call it the 'Land of Judea' for nothing! Human settlement in Judea stretches back to the Stone Age. The Israelites lived in Jericho, back in 1025 B.C. It's a fact of history that this land was invaded by the Arabs in 636 A.D. The prevailing opinion today is that the Israelites, who eventually evolved into the modern Jews and Samaritans, are an outgrowth of the indigenous Canaanites who had resided in the area since the 8th millennium BCE. Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites The Israelites (/ˈɪzriəˌlaɪts, -reɪ-/)[1] were a Semitic people of the Ancient Near East, who inhabited part of Canaan during the tribal and monarchic periods (15th... View on en.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Preview by Yahoo --- jason_green2@... wrote : Stop this bullshit willytex. No referendum was held in that territory. God is not a real estate dealer. The UN stole that land from indigenous people. They called other communities dogs for centuries. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. (Mark 7:25-26). And He was saying to her, Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. (Mark 7:27). The Jews called the Gentiles dogs in the same way we would call someone a bitch (Matthew 7:6; Philippians 3:2; Revelation 22:15). It was a term of contempt. --- richard@... wrote : According to what I've read, so-called non-Zionist Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint--as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture. Zionism is used in the strict sense of the Jews should have a homeland, preferably Israel (Israel is where Zion is, hence Zionism). Criticizing today's Israeli government regarding policies is not the same as anti-Zionism. -- jr_esq@... wrote : Jason, There are still Jews who consider themselves as the Chosen People here in the USA. They may or may not be Zioneists. Nonetheless, they follow several hundred laws relating to food, behavior and worship. They still frown upon intermarriage with outsiders or goyim. I've posted the videos of Rabbis Kraft and Mizrachi and you should watch them for verification. And they don't definitely consider themselves descendants of apes from Africa. ---jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. --- salyavin808@... wrote : The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : A strong case can be made that it is the very existence of this Chosen People myth that has caused the ongoing persecution of Jews over the centuries. Historically, the same sort of persecution hounds *any* religious group who consider themselves
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Whereas claiming that it is possible to understand everything ISN'T lazy? :-)
From: inmadi...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 10:55 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Claiming some event is random just means the event is too complicated and
we don't understand it yet. So there is no calling a thing random, that is
only being lazy. #yiv4996778959 #yiv4996778959 -- #yiv4996778959ygrp-mkp
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
No one knows where the Ashkenazim came from but most scholars think they started in southern Italy and other parts of southern Europe. From: jason_gre...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2015 8:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random? By the logical extension of your own argument, the entire north america should be handed over to the Red Indians. They were the original inhabitants of the Americas. Many ethnic groups all over the world don't have a seperate country of their own. That is not necessary either. The Ashkanaz jews were central asian converts and they never lived in Israel. They are the ones who migrated to europe. Besides, there was never any need to partition the territory. A special arrangement could have been made for those sephardim jews who wanted to settle down there, without disturbing the indigenous people who were already there. --- richard@... wrote : You need to read some history books. The people of Judea were there long before the Arabs invaded the land and tried to kill all the Jews. Do you have any historical evidence that proves the Arabs were in Judea before it was called Judea? I think not. Judea and Samaria is the West Bank! They don't call it the 'Land of Judea' for nothing! Human settlement in Judea stretches back to the Stone Age. The Israelites lived in Jericho, back in 1025 B.C. It's a fact of history that this land was invaded by the Arabs in 636 A.D. The prevailing opinion today is that the Israelites, who eventually evolved into the modern Jews and Samaritans, are an outgrowth of the indigenous Canaanites who had resided in the area since the 8th millennium BCE. Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | | | | | | Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Israelites (/ˈɪzriəˌlaɪts, -reɪ-/)[1] were a Semitic people of the Ancient Near East, who inhabited part of Canaan during the tribal and monarchic periods (15th... | | | View on en.wikipedia.org| Preview by Yahoo | | | --- jason_green2@... wrote : Stop this bullshit willytex. No referendum was held in that territory. God is not a real estate dealer. The UN stole that land from indigenous people. They called other communities dogs for centuries. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. (Mark 7:25-26). And He was saying to her, Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. (Mark 7:27). The Jews called the Gentiles dogs in the same way we would call someone a bitch (Matthew 7:6; Philippians 3:2; Revelation 22:15). It was a term of contempt. --- richard@... wrote : According to what I've read, so-called non-Zionist Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint--as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture. Zionism is used in the strict sense of the Jews should have a homeland, preferably Israel (Israel is where Zion is, hence Zionism). Criticizing today's Israeli government regarding policies is not the same as anti-Zionism. -- jr_esq@... wrote : Jason, There are still Jews who consider themselves as the Chosen People here in the USA. They may or may not be Zioneists. Nonetheless, they follow several hundred laws relating to food, behavior and worship. They still frown upon intermarriage with outsiders or goyim. I've posted the videos of Rabbis Kraft and Mizrachi and you should watch them for verification. And they don't definitely consider themselves descendants of apes from Africa. ---jr_esq@... wrote : No,I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written byBhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and thecosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week orso. Butit is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinkingabout the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jewsand Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews toperform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. --- salyavin808@... wrote : Thefact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread.Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to dowhatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of theriver Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arroganceon that front might have worked wonders in 1948. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : Astrong case can be made that it is the very existence
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
My paternal haplogroup, which occurs almost exclusively in a small percentage of Ashkenazi Jews, originated in the Caucasus region. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackso...@yahoo.com wrote : No one knows where the Ashkenazim came from but most scholars think they started in southern Italy and other parts of southern Europe. From: jason_gre...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2015 8:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random? By the logical extension of your own argument, the entire north america should be handed over to the Red Indians. They were the original inhabitants of the Americas. Many ethnic groups all over the world don't have a seperate country of their own. That is not necessary either. The Ashkanaz jews were central asian converts and they never lived in Israel. They are the ones who migrated to europe. Besides, there was never any need to partition the territory. A special arrangement could have been made for those sephardim jews who wanted to settle down there, without disturbing the indigenous people who were already there. --- richard@... wrote : You need to read some history books. The people of Judea were there long before the Arabs invaded the land and tried to kill all the Jews. Do you have any historical evidence that proves the Arabs were in Judea before it was called Judea? I think not. Judea and Samaria is the West Bank! They don't call it the 'Land of Judea' for nothing! Human settlement in Judea stretches back to the Stone Age. The Israelites lived in Jericho, back in 1025 B.C. It's a fact of history that this land was invaded by the Arabs in 636 A.D. The prevailing opinion today is that the Israelites, who eventually evolved into the modern Jews and Samaritans, are an outgrowth of the indigenous Canaanites who had resided in the area since the 8th millennium BCE. Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites The Israelites (/ˈɪzriəˌlaɪts, -reɪ-/)[1] were a Semitic people of the Ancient Near East, who inhabited part of Canaan during the tribal and monarchic periods (15th... View on en.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Preview by Yahoo --- jason_green2@... wrote : Stop this bullshit willytex. No referendum was held in that territory. God is not a real estate dealer. The UN stole that land from indigenous people. They called other communities dogs for centuries. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. (Mark 7:25-26). And He was saying to her, Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. (Mark 7:27). The Jews called the Gentiles dogs in the same way we would call someone a bitch (Matthew 7:6; Philippians 3:2; Revelation 22:15). It was a term of contempt. --- richard@... wrote : According to what I've read, so-called non-Zionist Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint--as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture. Zionism is used in the strict sense of the Jews should have a homeland, preferably Israel (Israel is where Zion is, hence Zionism). Criticizing today's Israeli government regarding policies is not the same as anti-Zionism. -- jr_esq@... wrote : Jason, There are still Jews who consider themselves as the Chosen People here in the USA. They may or may not be Zioneists. Nonetheless, they follow several hundred laws relating to food, behavior and worship. They still frown upon intermarriage with outsiders or goyim. I've posted the videos of Rabbis Kraft and Mizrachi and you should watch them for verification. And they don't definitely consider themselves descendants of apes from Africa. ---jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. --- salyavin808@... wrote : The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Apparently the explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant. All studies nevertheless agree that genetic overlap with the Fertile Crescent exists in both lineages, albeit at differing rates. Ashkenazi Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews Ashkenazi Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or simply Ashkenazim (Hebrew: אַשְׁכְּנַזִּים, Ashkenazi Hebrew pronunciation: [ˌaʃkəˈnazim], singular: [... View on en.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : No one knows where the Ashkenazim came from but most scholars think they started in southern Italy and other parts of southern Europe. From: jason_green2@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2015 8:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random? By the logical extension of your own argument, the entire north america should be handed over to the Red Indians. They were the original inhabitants of the Americas. Many ethnic groups all over the world don't have a seperate country of their own. That is not necessary either. The Ashkanaz jews were central asian converts and they never lived in Israel. They are the ones who migrated to europe. Besides, there was never any need to partition the territory. A special arrangement could have been made for those sephardim jews who wanted to settle down there, without disturbing the indigenous people who were already there. --- richard@... wrote : You need to read some history books. The people of Judea were there long before the Arabs invaded the land and tried to kill all the Jews. Do you have any historical evidence that proves the Arabs were in Judea before it was called Judea? I think not. Judea and Samaria is the West Bank! They don't call it the 'Land of Judea' for nothing! Human settlement in Judea stretches back to the Stone Age. The Israelites lived in Jericho, back in 1025 B.C. It's a fact of history that this land was invaded by the Arabs in 636 A.D. The prevailing opinion today is that the Israelites, who eventually evolved into the modern Jews and Samaritans, are an outgrowth of the indigenous Canaanites who had resided in the area since the 8th millennium BCE. Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites The Israelites (/ˈɪzriəˌlaɪts, -reɪ-/)[1] were a Semitic people of the Ancient Near East, who inhabited part of Canaan during the tribal and monarchic periods (15th... View on en.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Preview by Yahoo --- jason_green2@... wrote : Stop this bullshit willytex. No referendum was held in that territory. God is not a real estate dealer. The UN stole that land from indigenous people. They called other communities dogs for centuries. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. (Mark 7:25-26). And He was saying to her, Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. (Mark 7:27). The Jews called the Gentiles dogs in the same way we would call someone a bitch (Matthew 7:6; Philippians 3:2; Revelation 22:15). It was a term of contempt. --- richard@... wrote : According to what I've read, so-called non-Zionist Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint--as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture. Zionism is used in the strict sense of the Jews should have a homeland, preferably Israel (Israel is where Zion is, hence Zionism). Criticizing today's Israeli government regarding policies is not the same as anti-Zionism. -- jr_esq@... wrote : Jason, There are still Jews who consider themselves as the Chosen People here in the USA. They may or may not be Zioneists. Nonetheless, they follow several hundred laws relating to food, behavior and worship. They still frown upon intermarriage with outsiders or goyim. I've posted the videos of Rabbis Kraft and Mizrachi and you should watch them
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
By my logic those that won the war get to do what they want with the land and the resources. Since the Allies won the war they got to chop up the Middle East how they saw fit and so they drew lines in the sand on ethnic and language lines. There are no Red Indians in North America the native inhabitants all came over from Asia. Anyone who actively supports the continued existence of Israel as a Jewish nation is a zionist. Do you acknowledge the right of Saudi Arabia to exist as a Muslim nation? What the Palestinians and most other Arabs really want is to wipe the Jewish state of Israel out of existence. If so, then it's hard to see on what grounds you would deny a comparable right to Israel – especially considering what the Jews have endured throughout their history, and especially considering that Israel is the one and *only* Jewish nation -- in contrast to the Muslims, who have twenty-something nations (and a vastly larger land mass) under their control. One quick quiz according to Delia: Who should be in control of Jerusalem? Answers to choose from: A. Palestinians/Muslims B. Israelis/Jews C. It should be under joint control, since it's important to both religions. D. The United Nations Answers: A is clearly anti-semitic. C and D are pretty much equivalent, and both are borderline antisemitism, or possibly just plain ignorance. B makes the most sense, and is the obvious choice if one has any respect at all for Jews and their traditions. Note: Muslims have Mecca as their holy city (which non-muslims are not even allowed to set foot in); and they also have Medina, their second-holiest city, which is the birthplace of Muhammed. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : By the logical extension of your own argument, the entire north america should be handed over to the Red Indians. They were the original inhabitants of the Americas. Many ethnic groups all over the world don't have a seperate country of their own. That is not necessary either. The Ashkanaz jews were central asian converts and they never lived in Israel. They are the ones who migrated to europe. Besides, there was never any need to partition the territory. A special arrangement could have been made for those sephardim jews who wanted to settle down there, without disturbing the indigenous people who were already there. --- richard@... wrote : You need to read some history books. The people of Judea were there long before the Arabs invaded the land and tried to kill all the Jews. Do you have any historical evidence that proves the Arabs were in Judea before it was called Judea? I think not. Judea and Samaria is the West Bank! They don't call it the 'Land of Judea' for nothing! Human settlement in Judea stretches back to the Stone Age. The Israelites lived in Jericho, back in 1025 B.C. It's a fact of history that this land was invaded by the Arabs in 636 A.D. The prevailing opinion today is that the Israelites, who eventually evolved into the modern Jews and Samaritans, are an outgrowth of the indigenous Canaanites who had resided in the area since the 8th millennium BCE. Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites The Israelites (/ˈɪzriəˌlaɪts, -reɪ-/)[1] were a Semitic people of the Ancient Near East, who inhabited part of Canaan during the tribal and monarchic periods (15th... View on en.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Preview by Yahoo --- jason_green2@... wrote : Stop this bullshit willytex. No referendum was held in that territory. God is not a real estate dealer. The UN stole that land from indigenous people. They called other communities dogs for centuries. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. (Mark 7:25-26). And He was saying to her, Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. (Mark 7:27). The Jews called the Gentiles dogs in the same way we would call someone a bitch (Matthew 7:6; Philippians 3:2; Revelation 22:15). It was a term of contempt. --- richard@... wrote : According to what I've read, so-called non-Zionist Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint--as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture. Zionism is used in the strict sense of the Jews should have a homeland, preferably Israel (Israel is where Zion is, hence Zionism).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Xeno, let's use a little logic here. If you existed before you were born, you will continue to exist after you die. If you didn't exist before you were born, you will not exist after you die. The law of karma or balance is a very subtle law, compared to other gross laws of physics. That's why it's not apparent to most people. You lifting a pen could be action, and you putting it down could be reaction. The point is, time lag for these actions can differ. Coming to your point, if there is no such thing as reincarnation, existence would be totally meaningless, nature unfair, and God if it exists a lunatic. The determinism of the classical universe and the randomness of the quantum universe, complement and balance each other. As you pointed out, randomness itself is statistically constrained. Which means there was no intention behind the big bang itself. --- anartaxius@... wrote : Share Jason Share, I do believe you never consider anything as a statement of logic. Settling for the sense of it on resonance, which is really a subtle sense of feeling allows one to bypass figuring out what it might mean. If beyond thought and feeling, that puts it beyond understanding. I myself do not think much about this any more, but it comes up time to time. A contradiction (con = against, diction = speech) is a statement that says x is so and x is not so at the same time, which is nonsense. Jason's response shows more analysis. Determinism is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. While free will is the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. This sets individuality against the universe. The universe can be regarded as having either natural laws which mindlessly govern activity in a mechanical fashion, or as having an intentional stance, having a mind which determines action through will, such as gods are supposed to have. Individual will is an intentional stance that opposes universal laws or the activity of the gods. One can question whether the universe as a whole has will in the intentional stance sense, because proving gods (1 or more) exist seems out of the question. That nature's activity seems rather overpowering in a deterministic sense is pretty obvious, but why that is is not. Quantum mechanics shows us a certain proportion of indeterminacy on a microscopic scale. This is not apparent on the macroscopic scale, but it seems to mean things will never repeat themselves in quite the same way but the variations on the macroscopic scale will be subtle to say the least. The chance, or randomness of particle interaction is not will because there seems to be no intention behind it, it just happens. It is also constrained statistically so it cannot be said to be free either. Recent experiments with the human brain seem to show our sense of will is illusory, that the brain comes to make certain kinds of decisions in a mechanical way, and the results of this 'decision' comes into awareness after the fact, often seconds, as much as seven seconds after the fact. That means consciousness is passive, and does nothing, since it does not know what is happening until after the deed is done. This could hardly be said to be the activity of will. If anything, it is a demonstration of the effect of universal determinism, unless we conclude that micro quantum events introduce an element of chance. But has we note, chance is not a constrained by the concept of will, it bypasses will altogether, but is statistically constrained, which in a sense means its effect is at least partially determined, it is not free in the sense of unconstrained, its functioning is not at its own discretion. Chance has no mind. So we are left with mechanical determined universal action without an intentional stance behind it, both for the universe and for us, but we have the idea in our heads, that we have an intentional stance, even if it is not really there. And then there is that throw of the quantum dice, which prevents us from ever figuring out exactly what is happening when we look deeply into the matter. As for the concept of karmic rebound, not sure how that works or if it exists. If something happens, then something else happens because things are interconnected. I just lifted a pen off my desk, and then put it back down on the desk. What is the karmic rebound here? I have no idea what that would mean in this situation. Suppose a universe in which each person lives, and dies, and is not immortal and vanishes forever at death (kind of like ours). Suppose this person commits a murder in this universe, and is never caught, never even suspected, and this person subsequently lives a happy life filled with joy until he/she dies. What is the karmic rebound in this situation? --- jason_green2@... wrote : This is a little difficult to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Xeno, let's use a little logic here. If you existed before you were born, you will continue to exist after you die. If you didn't exist before you were born, you will not exist after you die. The law of karma or balance is a very subtle law, compared to other gross laws of physics. That's why it's not apparent to most people. You lifting a pen could be action, and you putting it down could be reaction. The point is, time lag for these actions can differ. Coming to your point, if there is no such thing as reincarnation, existence would be totally meaningless, nature unfair, and God if it exists a lunatic. The determinism of the classical universe and the randomness of the quantum universe, complement and balance each other. As you pointed out, randomness itself is statistically constrained. Which means there was no intention behind the big bang itself. --- anartaxius@... wrote : Share Jason Share, I do believe you never consider anything as a statement of logic. Settling for the sense of it on resonance, which is really a subtle sense of feeling allows one to bypass figuring out what it might mean. If beyond thought and feeling, that puts it beyond understanding. I myself do not think much about this any more, but it comes up time to time. A contradiction (con = against, diction = speech) is a statement that says x is so and x is not so at the same time, which is nonsense. Jason's response shows more analysis. Determinism is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. While free will is the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. This sets individuality against the universe. The universe can be regarded as having either natural laws which mindlessly govern activity in a mechanical fashion, or as having an intentional stance, having a mind which determines action through will, such as gods are supposed to have. Individual will is an intentional stance that opposes universal laws or the activity of the gods. One can question whether the universe as a whole has will in the intentional stance sense, because proving gods (1 or more) exist seems out of the question. That nature's activity seems rather overpowering in a deterministic sense is pretty obvious, but why that is is not. Quantum mechanics shows us a certain proportion of indeterminacy on a microscopic scale. This is not apparent on the macroscopic scale, but it seems to mean things will never repeat themselves in quite the same way but the variations on the macroscopic scale will be subtle to say the least. The chance, or randomness of particle interaction is not will because there seems to be no intention behind it, it just happens. It is also constrained statistically so it cannot be said to be free either. Recent experiments with the human brain seem to show our sense of will is illusory, that the brain comes to make certain kinds of decisions in a mechanical way, and the results of this 'decision' comes into awareness after the fact, often seconds, as much as seven seconds after the fact. That means consciousness is passive, and does nothing, since it does not know what is happening until after the deed is done. This could hardly be said to be the activity of will. If anything, it is a demonstration of the effect of universal determinism, unless we conclude that micro quantum events introduce an element of chance. But has we note, chance is not a constrained by the concept of will, it bypasses will altogether, but is statistically constrained, which in a sense means its effect is at least partially determined, it is not free in the sense of unconstrained, its functioning is not at its own discretion. Chance has no mind. So we are left with mechanical determined universal action without an intentional stance behind it, both for the universe and for us, but we have the idea in our heads, that we have an intentional stance, even if it is not really there. And then there is that throw of the quantum dice, which prevents us from ever figuring out exactly what is happening when we look deeply into the matter. As for the concept of karmic rebound, not sure how that works or if it exists. If something happens, then something else happens because things are interconnected. I just lifted a pen off my desk, and then put it back down on the desk. What is the karmic rebound here? I have no idea what that would mean in this situation. Suppose a universe in which each person lives, and dies, and is not immortal and vanishes forever at death (kind of like ours). Suppose this person commits a murder in this universe, and is never caught, never even suspected, and this person subsequently lives a happy life filled with joy until he/she dies. What is the karmic rebound in this situation? --- jason_green2@... wrote : This is a little difficult to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Stop this bullshit willytex. No referendum was held in that territory. God is not a real estate dealer. The UN stole that land from indigenous people. They called other communities dogs for centuries. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. (Mark 7:25-26). And He was saying to her, Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. (Mark 7:27). The Jews called the Gentiles dogs in the same way we would call someone a bitch (Matthew 7:6; Philippians 3:2; Revelation 22:15). It was a term of contempt. --- richard@... wrote : According to what I've read, so-called non-Zionist Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint--as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture. Zionism is used in the strict sense of the Jews should have a homeland, preferably Israel (Israel is where Zion is, hence Zionism). Criticizing today's Israeli government regarding policies is not the same as anti-Zionism. -- jr_esq@... wrote : Jason, There are still Jews who consider themselves as the Chosen People here in the USA. They may or may not be Zioneists. Nonetheless, they follow several hundred laws relating to food, behavior and worship. They still frown upon intermarriage with outsiders or goyim. I've posted the videos of Rabbis Kraft and Mizrachi and you should watch them for verification. And they don't definitely consider themselves descendants of apes from Africa. ---jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. --- salyavin808@... wrote : The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : A strong case can be made that it is the very existence of this Chosen People myth that has caused the ongoing persecution of Jews over the centuries. Historically, the same sort of persecution hounds *any* religious group who consider themselves special and better than others around them who don't follow their religion. --- salyavin808@... wrote : Another miserable twist of fate was that the Jews are the only one of the three main western religions that can lend money with interest. So they were the go-to guys for a loan and obviously it doesn't pay to be soft if you are a money lender, hence all the Jews are tight with money stereotypes. In any alternate reality it could have been the others with that particular cross to bear.. --- jason_green2@... wrote : This notion that, we are chosen and special existed in all cultures, tribes and societies all over the world. According to a yogi, this feeling arose out of a primitive, insular ignorance. Now that the earth is no longer the center of the universe, most societies have gotten over that idea. Only the Zionists and Jihadists continue to hold that view. Integration is not possible unless this fraudulent world-view is dispelled. They too are apes that came down from the trees in the african savannah.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Using inference as a valid means of knowledge, we infer that there is intelligence in the universe, otherwise logic would dictate to us that there is no order, only chaos. According to my logic professor, A.J. Bahm, if appearances derived through one sensory channel appear contradictory, it is natural to appeal to other senses for corroboration. When they contradict, which sense shall we accept as reliable? If we observe the realist closely, we will find that at some times he relies principally on his eyes and, at other times, on his ears. When different senses corroborate an error, we are still more baffled. The realist is unaware that he has no criterion of the reality or unreality of objects experienced. He has faith in the reality of movie action while it lasts, otherwise he could not really enjoy it. He has faith in his own action, otherwise how could he really enjoy life. But how reliable is such faith? Comparison of present paradoxes with past experiences simply involves greater possibilities of error and greater paradoxes. For past experiences, to be compared, must be remembered. But memory often fails us. What assurance do we have that it is not failing us again? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : Xeno, let's use a little logic here. If you existed before you were born, you will continue to exist after you die. If you didn't exist before you were born, you will not exist after you die. The law of karma or balance is a very subtle law, compared to other gross laws of physics. That's why it's not apparent to most people. You lifting a pen could be action, and you putting it down could be reaction. The point is, time lag for these actions can differ. Coming to your point, if there is no such thing as reincarnation, existence would be totally meaningless, nature unfair, and God if it exists a lunatic. The determinism of the classical universe and the randomness of the quantum universe, complement and balance each other. As you pointed out, randomness itself is statistically constrained. Which means there was no intention behind the big bang itself. --- anartaxius@... wrote : Share Jason Share, I do believe you never consider anything as a statement of logic. Settling for the sense of it on resonance, which is really a subtle sense of feeling allows one to bypass figuring out what it might mean. If beyond thought and feeling, that puts it beyond understanding. I myself do not think much about this any more, but it comes up time to time. A contradiction (con = against, diction = speech) is a statement that says x is so and x is not so at the same time, which is nonsense. Jason's response shows more analysis. Determinism is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. While free will is the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. This sets individuality against the universe. The universe can be regarded as having either natural laws which mindlessly govern activity in a mechanical fashion, or as having an intentional stance, having a mind which determines action through will, such as gods are supposed to have. Individual will is an intentional stance that opposes universal laws or the activity of the gods. One can question whether the universe as a whole has will in the intentional stance sense, because proving gods (1 or more) exist seems out of the question. That nature's activity seems rather overpowering in a deterministic sense is pretty obvious, but why that is is not. Quantum mechanics shows us a certain proportion of indeterminacy on a microscopic scale. This is not apparent on the macroscopic scale, but it seems to mean things will never repeat themselves in quite the same way but the variations on the macroscopic scale will be subtle to say the least. The chance, or randomness of particle interaction is not will because there seems to be no intention behind it, it just happens. It is also constrained statistically so it cannot be said to be free either. Recent experiments with the human brain seem to show our sense of will is illusory, that the brain comes to make certain kinds of decisions in a mechanical way, and the results of this 'decision' comes into awareness after the fact, often seconds, as much as seven seconds after the fact. That means consciousness is passive, and does nothing, since it does not know what is happening until after the deed is done. This could hardly be said to be the activity of will. If anything, it is a demonstration of the effect of universal determinism, unless we conclude that micro quantum events introduce an element of chance. But has we note, chance is not a constrained by the concept of will, it bypasses will altogether, but is statistically constrained, which in a sense means its effect is at least partially
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
You need to read some history books. The people of Judea were there long before the Arabs invaded the land and tried to kill all the Jews. Do you have any historical evidence that proves the Arabs were in Judea before it was called Judea? I think not. Judea and Samaria is the West Bank! They don't call it the 'Land of Judea' for nothing! Human settlement in Judea stretches back to the Stone Age. The Israelites lived in Jericho, back in 1025 B.C. It's a fact of history that this land was invaded by the Arabs in 636 A.D. The prevailing opinion today is that the Israelites, who eventually evolved into the modern Jews and Samaritans, are an outgrowth of the indigenous Canaanites who had resided in the area since the 8th millennium BCE. Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites The Israelites (/ˈɪzriəˌlaɪts, -reɪ-/)[1] were a Semitic people of the Ancient Near East, who inhabited part of Canaan during the tribal and monarchic periods (15th... View on en.wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : Stop this bullshit willytex. No referendum was held in that territory. God is not a real estate dealer. The UN stole that land from indigenous people. They called other communities dogs for centuries. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. (Mark 7:25-26). And He was saying to her, Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. (Mark 7:27). The Jews called the Gentiles dogs in the same way we would call someone a bitch (Matthew 7:6; Philippians 3:2; Revelation 22:15). It was a term of contempt. --- richard@... wrote : According to what I've read, so-called non-Zionist Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint--as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture. Zionism is used in the strict sense of the Jews should have a homeland, preferably Israel (Israel is where Zion is, hence Zionism). Criticizing today's Israeli government regarding policies is not the same as anti-Zionism. -- jr_esq@... wrote : Jason, There are still Jews who consider themselves as the Chosen People here in the USA. They may or may not be Zioneists. Nonetheless, they follow several hundred laws relating to food, behavior and worship. They still frown upon intermarriage with outsiders or goyim. I've posted the videos of Rabbis Kraft and Mizrachi and you should watch them for verification. And they don't definitely consider themselves descendants of apes from Africa. ---jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. --- salyavin808@... wrote : The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : A strong case can be made that it is the very existence of this Chosen People myth that has caused the ongoing persecution of Jews over the centuries. Historically, the same sort of persecution hounds *any* religious group who consider themselves special and better than others around them who don't follow their religion. --- salyavin808@... wrote : Another miserable twist of fate was that the Jews are the only one of the three main western religions that can lend money with interest. So they were the go-to guys for a loan and obviously it doesn't pay to be soft if you are a money lender, hence all the Jews are tight with money stereotypes. In any alternate reality it could have been the others with that particular cross to bear.. --- jason_green2@... wrote : This notion that, we are chosen and special existed in all cultures, tribes and societies
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
It might be helpful to define karma as used in Indian doctrine. The theory of karma is dirt simple: all things fall down; human excrement always flows downstream; gravity sucks. It's not a metaphysics - it's just an observation that holds true for everyone and everything. You strike a billiard ball with another and there is an opposite reaction - cause and effect. It's not complicated. Sankhya philosophy concers the self-generated Purusha, the Being and the relative nature of the thirty-two evolutes of prakriti born of nature. It is clearly stated in the scriptures that the Purusha is entirely separate from the prakriti. According to historians of philosophy, the Sankhya philosophy was the first systematic attempt at explaining the dualistic point-of-view.* Sankhya teaches us that the world is governed by natural law - causation. Sankhya advocates propound that action and the results of actions can be known and explained through the science of enumeration, human observation, and direct experience. The Sage Kapila compiled a series of aphorisms which express this darshana, one of the Six Systems of Indian Philosophy. The question is: does karm work on the level of mental. With the exception of the materialist Charvaka, all the Indian sages agreed that it indeed does work on the level of thought. And from the contrast with that which is composed of the three constituents, there follows, for the Purusha, the character of Being, a witness; freedom from misery, neutrality, percipience, and non-agency. Work cited: Samkhya Sutras The Samkhyakarika of Isvarakrishna Samkhyakarika, XVII trans. and ed. by Suryanarayana Sastri U. of Madras, 1935 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : The law of karma, as I usually hear of it seems pretty dumb, because it is not explained clearly, and there is no proof of it. This is not necessarily so. Comments in your text. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : Xeno, let's use a little logic here. If you existed before you were born, you will continue to exist after you die. If you didn't exist before you were born, you will not exist after you die. There are multiple possibilities here: You could exist before you were born, be born and live, then die and not exist. You could exist before you were born, be born and live, then die and exist. You could exist before you were born, be stillborn dead, and then exist. You could exist before you were born, be stillborn dead, and then not exist. You could not exist before you were born, be born and live, and then die and not exist. You could not exist before you were born, be born and live, and then die and exist You could not exist before you were born, be stillborn and dead, and then exist. You could not exist before you were born, be stillborn and dead, and then not exist. (This last one is a real bummer, but of course you would never know) What is not so clear is how these various scenarios could work out to be true. Simply saying there is a law of karma and that it is 'subtler' than the laws of physics. is just a way of avoiding describing how the whole thing works, and whether there is any evidence that could support the idea. The laws of physics describe things that are far beyond the ability of the human nervous system to perceive or feel or even experience, but they are not necessarily beyond the ability of machines to detect, which allows us to experience those things by proxy as a mental construct, but never directly. First of all, what does one mean when we use the word 'you'. Is it the same 'you' before birth, at birth and in life, and after death, or what? The experience of, or perhaps, the knowledge of, being as an undefined attribute-less substratum of all existence that remains before, during, and after bodies are born and perish might be considered one's existence, but it then excludes the life of the body with its mental panorama and personality (what we normally consider a person) as being what the 'you' really are. That personality is not what is maintained throughout birth and death in this case. On the other hand if what people normally consider a person is is somehow maintained through the mill of birth and death, the 'you' that we usually mean when we talk to someone, how does that happen? How is the essence of that personality stored in between births, and where is it stored, and how is it reconstituted? This all seems extraordinarily vague to me; people tell me it does, and leave it at that, which means they do not know otherwise they could explain it. My view of birth and death is this: All things that exist have being. Being is an abstract principle that all things, individually and collectively (that is, the universe as a whole) have. Being is equivalent of having existence, no matter what kind or how. It is totally obvious, anything that exists has being. It is a
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
In computer science where random number generators are frequently used there has been a lot of study of this and many agree nothing is really random. Best random number generators were ones that took analog video noise for a number. On 02/03/2015 01:55 PM, inmadi...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Claiming some event is random just means the event is too complicated and we don't understand it yet. So there is no calling a thing random, that is only being lazy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
This is not necessarily so. Comments in your text. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : Xeno, let's use a little logic here. If you existed before you were born, you will continue to exist after you die. If you didn't exist before you were born, you will not exist after you die. There are multiple possibilities here: You could exist before you were born, be born and live, then die and not exist. You could exist before you were born, be born and live, then die and exist. You could exist before you were born, be stillborn dead, and then exist. You could exist before you were born, be stillborn dead, and then not exist. You could not exist before you were born, be born and live, and then die and not exist. You could not exist before you were born, be born and live, and then die and exist You could not exist before you were born, be stillborn and dead, and then exist. You could not exist before you were born, be stillborn and dead, and then not exist. (This last one is a real bummer, but of course you would never know) What is not so clear is how these various scenarios could work out to be true. Simply saying there is a law of karma and that it is 'subtler' than the laws of physics. is just a way of avoiding describing how the whole thing works, and whether there is any evidence that could support the idea. The laws of physics describe things that are far beyond the ability of the human nervous system to perceive or feel or even experience, but they are not necessarily beyond the ability of machines to detect, which allows us to experience those things by proxy as a mental construct, but never directly. First of all, what does one mean when we use the word 'you'. Is it the same 'you' before birth, at birth and in life, and after death, or what? The experience of, or perhaps, the knowledge of, being as an undefined attribute-less substratum of all existence that remains before, during, and after bodies are born and perish might be considered one's existence, but it then excludes the life of the body with its mental panorama and personality (what we normally consider a person) as being what the 'you' really are. That personality is not what is maintained throughout birth and death in this case. On the other hand if what people normally consider a person is is somehow maintained through the mill of birth and death, the 'you' that we usually mean when we talk to someone, how does that happen? How is the essence of that personality stored in between births, and where is it stored, and how is it reconstituted? This all seems extraordinarily vague to me; people tell me it does, and leave it at that, which means they do not know otherwise they could explain it. My view of birth and death is this: All things that exist have being. Being is an abstract principle that all things, individually and collectively (that is, the universe as a whole) have. Being is equivalent of having existence, no matter what kind or how. It is totally obvious, anything that exists has being. It is a definition. When the human mind and senses experience an aspect of this being and loses sight as it were, of the connectivity of existence, the totality of all the separate beings together, it experiences this aspect of being as a separate object or thing, and thus the being, which appears to have the property of consciousness under certain circumstances (such as when an aspect of being is a nervous system complex enough to have senses and a decent CPU, is 'born' as that object, not because something is happening, but because the perception and knowledge of timeless eternity is lost in that perception. If the totality of being is not lost in perception and knowledge, then nothing is born or dies. So the reality or non reality of birth and death is really just a matter of how narrow or wide perception and knowledge is. The enlightened being sees continuity of being, the unenlightened being sees discontinuity of being, yet both are seeing the same world, but the mind of each has a different slant on the experience. The law of karma or balance is a very subtle law, compared to other gross laws of physics. That's why it's not apparent to most people. The law of karma, as I usually hear of it seems pretty dumb, because it is not explained clearly, and there is no proof of it. There is no proof of what I said about it above either. This is something that might come, or might not come with long meditation practice, but in any case, if it comes, telling it to another can at best spark interest to investigate, certainly not a proof. If something can be apparent to some people, but not all, then an explanation of how it can become apparent to those that perceive it can be given. Here is your chance. You lifting a pen could be action, and you putting it down could be reaction. The point is, time lag for these actions can differ. Coming to your
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Claiming some event is random just means the event is too complicated and we don't understand it yet. So there is no calling a thing random, that is only being lazy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
---jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. --- salyavin808@... wrote : The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : A strong case can be made that it is the very existence of this Chosen People myth that has caused the ongoing persecution of Jews over the centuries. Historically, the same sort of persecution hounds *any* religious group who consider themselves special and better than others around them who don't follow their religion. --- salyavin808@... wrote : Another miserable twist of fate was that the Jews are the only one of the three main western religions that can lend money with interest. So they were the go-to guys for a loan and obviously it doesn't pay to be soft if you are a money lender, hence all the Jews are tight with money stereotypes. In any alternate reality it could have been the others with that particular cross to bear.. This notion that, we are chosen and special existed in all cultures, tribes and societies all over the world. According to a yogi, this feeling arose out of a primitive, insular ignorance. Now that the earth is no longer the center of the universe, most societies have gotten over that idea. Only the Zionists and Jihadists continue to hold that view. Integration is not possible unless this fraudulent world-view is dispelled. They too are apes that came down from the trees in the african savannah.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
---jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. --- salyavin808@... wrote : The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : A strong case can be made that it is the very existence of this Chosen People myth that has caused the ongoing persecution of Jews over the centuries. Historically, the same sort of persecution hounds *any* religious group who consider themselves special and better than others around them who don't follow their religion. --- salyavin808@... wrote : Another miserable twist of fate was that the Jews are the only one of the three main western religions that can lend money with interest. So they were the go-to guys for a loan and obviously it doesn't pay to be soft if you are a money lender, hence all the Jews are tight with money stereotypes. In any alternate reality it could have been the others with that particular cross to bear.. This notion that, we are chosen and special existed in all cultures, tribes and societies all over the world. According to a yogi, this feeling arose out of a primitive, insular ignorance. Now that the earth is no longer the center of the universe, most societies have gotten over that idea. Only the Zionists and Jihadists continue to hold that view. Integration is not possible unless this fraudulent world-view is dispelled. They too are apes that came down from the trees in the african savannah.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Share Jason Share, I do believe you never consider anything as a statement of logic. Settling for the sense of it on resonance, which is really a subtle sense of feeling allows one to bypass figuring out what it might mean. If beyond thought and feeling, that puts it beyond understanding. I myself do not think much about this any more, but it comes up time to time. A contradiction (con = against, diction = speech) is a statement that says x is so and x is not so at the same time, which is nonsense. Jason's response shows more analysis. Determinism is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. While free will is the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. This sets individuality against the universe. The universe can be regarded as having either natural laws which mindlessly govern activity in a mechanical fashion, or as having an intentional stance, having a mind which determines action through will, such as gods are supposed to have. Individual will is an intentional stance that opposes universal laws or the activity of the gods. One can question whether the universe as a whole has will in the intentional stance sense, because proving gods (1 or more) exist seems out of the question. That nature's activity seems rather overpowering in a deterministic sense is pretty obvious, but why that is is not. Quantum mechanics shows us a certain proportion of indeterminacy on a microscopic scale. This is not apparent on the macroscopic scale, but it seems to mean things will never repeat themselves in quite the same way but the variations on the macroscopic scale will be subtle to say the least. The chance, or randomness of particle interaction is not will because there seems to be no intention behind it, it just happens. It is also constrained statistically so it cannot be said to be free either. Recent experiments with the human brain seem to show our sense of will is illusory, that the brain comes to make certain kinds of decisions in a mechanical way, and the results of this 'decision' comes into awareness after the fact, often seconds, as much as seven seconds after the fact. That means consciousness is passive, and does nothing, since it does not know what is happening until after the deed is done. This could hardly be said to be the activity of will. If anything, it is a demonstration of the effect of universal determinism, unless we conclude that micro quantum events introduce an element of chance. But has we note, chance is not a constrained by the concept of will, it bypasses will altogether, but is statistically constrained, which in a sense means its effect is at least partially determined, it is not free in the sense of unconstrained, its functioning is not at its own discretion. Chance has no mind. So we are left with mechanical determined universal action without an intentional stance behind it, both for the universe and for us, but we have the idea in our heads, that we have an intentional stance, even if it is not really there. And then there is that throw of the quantum dice, which prevents us from ever figuring out exactly what is happening when we look deeply into the matter. As for the concept of karmic rebound, not sure how that works or if it exists. If something happens, then something else happens because things are interconnected. I just lifted a pen off my desk, and then put it back down on the desk. What is the karmic rebound here? I have no idea what that would mean in this situation. Suppose a universe in which each person lives, and dies, and is not immortal and vanishes forever at death (kind of like ours). Suppose this person commits a murder in this universe, and is never caught, never even suspected, and this person subsequently lives a happy life filled with joy until he/she dies. What is the karmic rebound in this situation? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : This is a little difficult to explain, but I'll try. When you perform an action, the karmic rebound is certain. However, when, where and how that rebound will occur cannot be predicted as existence itself does not know about it. There is an element of randomness here that is difficult to comprehend and is unexplainable. If you study evolution carefully, you will notice that evolution itself is partially deterministic and partially random. There is a broad set of laws and yet randomness plays a part. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Xeno, I don't understand it as a statement of logic. I understand it as a koan, a statement meant to take the mind beyond logic to a deeper truth. I find there is a level of life where all contradictions exist together. It is beyond thought and feeling. I sometimes call it knowingness, but resonance might be a more
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Beautiful, Xeno. For me, resonance has to do with sensory feeling in the body, sensing of energy and the way it flows. Some energy feels heavy; some feels fiery; some feels scattered. We could say: kapha, pitta, vata. I very much enjoy reading the clear analysis by you and Jason and others. But it's similar to how I can enjoy watching men play football. I enjoy watching but have no desire to participate further. It' sunny today and the snow everywhere looks wonderful. Meanwhile, it is arctic out there and there are steps to clear, etc. Hope you're enjoying. From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 2, 2015 10:31 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random? Share Jason Share, I do believe you never consider anything as a statement of logic. Settling for the sense of it on resonance, which is really a subtle sense of feeling allows one to bypass figuring out what it might mean. If beyond thought and feeling, that puts it beyond understanding. I myself do not think much about this any more, but it comes up time to time. A contradiction (con = against, diction = speech) is a statement that says x is so and x is not so at the same time, which is nonsense. Jason's response shows more analysis. Determinism is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. While free will is the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. This sets individuality against the universe. The universe can be regarded as having either natural laws which mindlessly govern activity in a mechanical fashion, or as having an intentional stance, having a mind which determines action through will, such as gods are supposed to have. Individual will is an intentional stance that opposes universal laws or the activity of the gods. One can question whether the universe as a whole has will in the intentional stance sense, because proving gods (1 or more) exist seems out of the question. That nature's activity seems rather overpowering in a deterministic sense is pretty obvious, but why that is is not. Quantum mechanics shows us a certain proportion of indeterminacy on a microscopic scale. This is not apparent on the macroscopic scale, but it seems to mean things will never repeat themselves in quite the same way but the variations on the macroscopic scale will be subtle to say the least. The chance, or randomness of particle interaction is not will because there seems to be no intention behind it, it just happens. It is also constrained statistically so it cannot be said to be free either. Recent experiments with the human brain seem to show our sense of will is illusory, that the brain comes to make certain kinds of decisions in a mechanical way, and the results of this 'decision' comes into awareness after the fact, often seconds, as much as seven seconds after the fact. That means consciousness is passive, and does nothing, since it does not know what is happening until after the deed is done. This could hardly be said to be the activity of will. If anything, it is a demonstration of the effect of universal determinism, unless we conclude that micro quantum events introduce an element of chance. But has we note, chance is not a constrained by the concept of will, it bypasses will altogether, but is statistically constrained, which in a sense means its effect is at least partially determined, it is not free in the sense of unconstrained, its functioning is not at its own discretion. Chance has no mind. So we are left with mechanical determined universal action without an intentional stance behind it, both for the universe and for us, but we have the idea in our heads, that we have an intentional stance, even if it is not really there. And then there is that throw of the quantum dice, which prevents us from ever figuring out exactly what is happening when we look deeply into the matter. As for the concept of karmic rebound, not sure how that works or if it exists. If something happens, then something else happens because things are interconnected. I just lifted a pen off my desk, and then put it back down on the desk. What is the karmic rebound here? I have no idea what that would mean in this situation. Suppose a universe in which each person lives, and dies, and is not immortal and vanishes forever at death (kind of like ours). Suppose this person commits a murder in this universe, and is never caught, never even suspected, and this person subsequently lives a happy life filled with joy until he/she dies. What is the karmic rebound in this situation? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : This is a little difficult to explain, but I'll try. When you perform an action, the karmic rebound is certain. However, when, where
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : What do you mean by moral reciprocity? Moral reciprocity concerns the mental effects based on the theory of karma. We know that there is a natural physical law in the universe which we call cause and effect which the ancient Indians termed karma. The question is, does this karma theory work also n the mental level? Do bad thoughts create the bad things that happen to ourselves and to others? According to yoga theory, you build up samskaras due to karma -the actions in this life and in your past lives. You can remove the samskaras through tapas - burning off the accumulated layers of past actions. But, yoga will not remove all the samskaras - there's always a trace of karma because you still maintain a human body with food, coarse or fine, and thoughts and volitions. There is always an innate clinging to human nature. Patanjali says that the ideal state for awakening is the cessation of thoughts; you simply have to *isolate* the Purusha from the prakriti and then realization can occur on it's own, or not. Karma is a Buddhist concept, along with samsara and moksha, from the shramana tradition, of which Buddhism and Jainism are continuations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richard@... wrote : Based on the theory of karma, there are no chance events - everything happens for a reason. Karma works on all levels, from a single bade of grass up to the highest devas. According to the theory of karma, the is causation and reaction - human excrement always flows downstream and gravity sucks. There are no exceptions. The question is - does karma also work on the level of moral reciprocity? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. On the other hand, for us outside their culture, the conflict appears to be an ancient struggle for land and revenge. But they have managed to include the rest of the world in their age-old family feud. As we can see, the Americans and European nations are inextricably now involved in this feud in Iraq and Syria, although it appears to be an Islamic issue. As such, we are subjected to terrorists attacks in our cities, such as those that occurred in Paris, France. It would be foolish to think that the current terrorist attack in Paris is an isolated event. You may think that Genesis is a mere fictional story. But for the Jews and Arabs, it is real up to this day. And somehow, we too are involved in this drama as reluctant participants. Nonetheless, some evangelical Christians may or may not welcome this event as the sign for the coming of Armageddon and the subsequent Rapture. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : None of us is a machine or random in here. According to rabbi Kraft, humans came from Adam and Eve. In Hebrew word analysis, Adam means both the spirit of Hashem and the mud from the earth. Are you in the process of converting to Judaism John? Just curious as you seem to be posting a lot of Old Testament cosmology these days. My guess is that Bhairitu is wondering whether we are too predictable in our responses on here. I also think randomness and machinelike thinking play a part in everyone. When we get a stimulus that requires a response we have many options and we all probably cycle through many memes of explanations we've picked up on our journey through life. What we consider the best response will be the one that chimes best with what we have persuaded ourselves is reality, and we have different ways of persuading ourselves, some insist on hard 5 sigma data before accepting new cosmological theories (me) and others judge incoming data by how well it fits in with other things they (or someone they respect) have decided is true. Clearly we can kid ourselves in a major way or can close down options because they don't fit, which is fine as long as you are sure they don't. Most science is done in people's heads to work out whether an experiment is even worth the effort. Definite randomness there in the creation of ideas to test, but channelled towards a hopefully correct response to explain the machine which is what we are. Somehow... Truth is tricky but Genesis is a great story. One of my faves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Jason, There are still Jews who consider themselves as the Chosen People here in the USA. They may or may not be Zioneists. Nonetheless, they follow several hundred laws relating to food, behavior and worship. They still frown upon intermarriage with outsiders or goyim. I've posted the videos of Rabbis Kraft and Mizrachi and you should watch them for verification. And they don't definitely consider themselves descendants of apes from Africa. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : ---jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. --- salyavin808@... wrote : The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : A strong case can be made that it is the very existence of this Chosen People myth that has caused the ongoing persecution of Jews over the centuries. Historically, the same sort of persecution hounds *any* religious group who consider themselves special and better than others around them who don't follow their religion. --- salyavin808@... wrote : Another miserable twist of fate was that the Jews are the only one of the three main western religions that can lend money with interest. So they were the go-to guys for a loan and obviously it doesn't pay to be soft if you are a money lender, hence all the Jews are tight with money stereotypes. In any alternate reality it could have been the others with that particular cross to bear.. This notion that, we are chosen and special existed in all cultures, tribes and societies all over the world. According to a yogi, this feeling arose out of a primitive, insular ignorance. Now that the earth is no longer the center of the universe, most societies have gotten over that idea. Only the Zionists and Jihadists continue to hold that view. Integration is not possible unless this fraudulent world-view is dispelled. They too are apes that came down from the trees in the african savannah.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
According to Sam Harris, a person’s conscious thoughts, intentions, and efforts at every moment are preceded by causes of which we are unaware. All our thoughts and actions have causes which is the basis for causation as opposed to free will. Because of ignorance of the past we get moral illusions - god and bad - but it is realy just a belief without any justification. Sam Harris combines neuroscience and psychology to lay the illusion of free will to rest. Life Without Free Will : Sam Harris http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/life-without-free-will http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/life-without-free-will Life Without Free Will : Sam Harris http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/life-without-free-will Sam Harris, neuroscientist and author of the New York Times bestsellers, The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation, and The Moral Landscape. View on www.samharris.org http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/life-without-free-will Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Share Jason Share, I do believe you never consider anything as a statement of logic. Settling for the sense of it on resonance, which is really a subtle sense of feeling allows one to bypass figuring out what it might mean. If beyond thought and feeling, that puts it beyond understanding. I myself do not think much about this any more, but it comes up time to time. A contradiction (con = against, diction = speech) is a statement that says x is so and x is not so at the same time, which is nonsense. Jason's response shows more analysis. Determinism is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. While free will is the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. This sets individuality against the universe. The universe can be regarded as having either natural laws which mindlessly govern activity in a mechanical fashion, or as having an intentional stance, having a mind which determines action through will, such as gods are supposed to have. Individual will is an intentional stance that opposes universal laws or the activity of the gods. One can question whether the universe as a whole has will in the intentional stance sense, because proving gods (1 or more) exist seems out of the question. That nature's activity seems rather overpowering in a deterministic sense is pretty obvious, but why that is is not. Quantum mechanics shows us a certain proportion of indeterminacy on a microscopic scale. This is not apparent on the macroscopic scale, but it seems to mean things will never repeat themselves in quite the same way but the variations on the macroscopic scale will be subtle to say the least. The chance, or randomness of particle interaction is not will because there seems to be no intention behind it, it just happens. It is also constrained statistically so it cannot be said to be free either. Recent experiments with the human brain seem to show our sense of will is illusory, that the brain comes to make certain kinds of decisions in a mechanical way, and the results of this 'decision' comes into awareness after the fact, often seconds, as much as seven seconds after the fact. That means consciousness is passive, and does nothing, since it does not know what is happening until after the deed is done. This could hardly be said to be the activity of will. If anything, it is a demonstration of the effect of universal determinism, unless we conclude that micro quantum events introduce an element of chance. But has we note, chance is not a constrained by the concept of will, it bypasses will altogether, but is statistically constrained, which in a sense means its effect is at least partially determined, it is not free in the sense of unconstrained, its functioning is not at its own discretion. Chance has no mind. So we are left with mechanical determined universal action without an intentional stance behind it, both for the universe and for us, but we have the idea in our heads, that we have an intentional stance, even if it is not really there. And then there is that throw of the quantum dice, which prevents us from ever figuring out exactly what is happening when we look deeply into the matter. As for the concept of karmic rebound, not sure how that works or if it exists. If something happens, then something else happens because things are interconnected. I just lifted a pen off my desk, and then put it back down on the desk. What is the karmic rebound here? I have no idea what that would mean in this situation. Suppose a universe in which each person lives, and dies, and is not immortal and vanishes forever at death (kind of like ours). Suppose this person commits a murder in this universe, and is never caught, never even suspected, and this person subsequently lives a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
According to what I've read, so-called non-Zionist Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint--as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well-suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture. Zionism is used in the strict sense of the Jews should have a homeland, preferably Israel (Israel is where Zion is, hence Zionism). Criticizing today's Israeli government regarding policies is not the same as anti-Zionism. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Jason, There are still Jews who consider themselves as the Chosen People here in the USA. They may or may not be Zioneists. Nonetheless, they follow several hundred laws relating to food, behavior and worship. They still frown upon intermarriage with outsiders or goyim. I've posted the videos of Rabbis Kraft and Mizrachi and you should watch them for verification. And they don't definitely consider themselves descendants of apes from Africa. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : ---jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. --- salyavin808@... wrote : The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : A strong case can be made that it is the very existence of this Chosen People myth that has caused the ongoing persecution of Jews over the centuries. Historically, the same sort of persecution hounds *any* religious group who consider themselves special and better than others around them who don't follow their religion. --- salyavin808@... wrote : Another miserable twist of fate was that the Jews are the only one of the three main western religions that can lend money with interest. So they were the go-to guys for a loan and obviously it doesn't pay to be soft if you are a money lender, hence all the Jews are tight with money stereotypes. In any alternate reality it could have been the others with that particular cross to bear.. This notion that, we are chosen and special existed in all cultures, tribes and societies all over the world. According to a yogi, this feeling arose out of a primitive, insular ignorance. Now that the earth is no longer the center of the universe, most societies have gotten over that idea. Only the Zionists and Jihadists continue to hold that view. Integration is not possible unless this fraudulent world-view is dispelled. They too are apes that came down from the trees in the african savannah.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Interesting. You could call it Spock syndrome a belief that logic is all you need, but without the creativity coming up with the ideas for your logic to sort through you won't achieve much of anything at all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : So you are a random then. Which fits your online personality and since you are a creative person is what you want to be. The genesis of these terms is that random was applied back in the 1980s and 90s to the programmers that tended not to be methodical and engineering types but more creative. Some left brained techies had a hard time dealing with them. I used to have long debates with software engineers as too whether software development was a left or right brained discipline. Left brained is for the tools and right brained for the ideas (and solutions). As for machinelike as I have mentioned here before I started noticing that the non-programming folks at the company I worked at in the 1990s wanted to be more like machines as they saw that as the pathway to a raise, better position and bigger yearly bonus. At the same time the company was trying to get them to be more creative while I needed my programmers to be more practical and finish their projects instead of dreaming up another one (yes, managing programmers is like herding cats). At the end of the 1990s I saw an interview with a robotics scientist who said he was seeing the same thing I was that people wanted to be more machinelike. He thought that was wrong. I would highly doubt that much of anyone here is machinelike though they might turn on that mindset as needed. Supposedly meditation practices make most people more right brained than left. Unfortunately we have people like Ray Kurzweil who think that people should be more machinelike. He is just so wrong. On 01/31/2015 10:41 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random? Yes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. On the other hand, for us outside their culture, the conflict appears to be an ancient struggle for land and revenge. But they have managed to include the rest of the world in their age-old family feud. As we can see, the Americans and European nations are inextricably now involved in this feud in Iraq and Syria, although it appears to be an Islamic issue. As such, we are subjected to terrorists attacks in our cities, such as those that occurred in Paris, France. It would be foolish to think that the current terrorist attack in Paris is an isolated event. You may think that Genesis is a mere fictional story. Never! What I like about Genesis is the way it's written, such a great start to a book In the beginning.. let there be light..etc And I appreciate the realisation for increasing complexity but worry about the rather patriarchal tone, especially the spare rib bit about women having pain in childbirth because Eve corrupted Adam. It amazes me that women are still campaigning for equality in the church, I'd run a mile from any organisation built on such foundations. But for the Jews and Arabs, it is real up to this day. And somehow, we too are involved in this drama as reluctant participants. Nonetheless, some evangelical Christians may or may not welcome this event as the sign for the coming of Armageddon and the subsequent Rapture. That people believe it all doesn't surprise me, that people think there's going to be some sort of rapture and actually look forward to it doesn't either. But what everyone forgets is what the bible actually said about life after death. It doesn't talk about spirits going to heaven it talks about heaven being here on Earth, and it doesn't mean that in some stupid TM find heaven within way, what they meant was that all the dead will rise and live again, on Earth. No pearly gates after life is mentioned at all, that got invented much later. So what the bible predicts is a zombie dawn. I'm starting to like it. The people who've been cremated might be regretting it but just imagine all the graves opening and the dead of centuries stalking Jerusalem. That's going to look good on the news. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : None of us is a machine or random in here. According to rabbi Kraft, humans came from Adam and Eve. In Hebrew word analysis, Adam means both the spirit of Hashem and the mud from the earth. Are you in the process of converting to Judaism John? Just curious as you seem to be posting a lot of Old Testament cosmology these days. My guess is that Bhairitu is wondering whether we are too predictable in our responses on here. I also think randomness and machinelike thinking play a part in everyone. When we get a stimulus that requires a response we have many options and we all probably cycle through many memes of explanations we've picked up on our journey through life. What we consider the best response will be the one that chimes best with what we have persuaded ourselves is reality, and we have different ways of persuading ourselves, some insist on hard 5 sigma data before accepting new cosmological theories (me) and others judge incoming data by how well it fits in with other things they (or someone they respect) have decided is true. Clearly we can kid ourselves in a major way or can close down options because they don't fit, which is fine as long as you are sure they don't. Most science is done in people's heads to work out whether an experiment is even worth the effort. Definite randomness there in the creation of ideas to test, but channelled towards a hopefully correct response to explain the machine which is what we are. Somehow... Truth is tricky but Genesis is a great story. One of my faves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. A strong case can be made that it is the very existence of this Chosen People myth that has caused the ongoing persecution of Jews over the centuries. Historically, the same sort of persecution hounds *any* religious group who consider themselves special and better than others around them who don't follow their religion. Another miserable twist of fate was that the Jews are the only one of the three main western religions that can lend money with interest. So they were the go-to guys for a loan and obviously it doesn't pay to be soft if you are a money lender, hence all the Jews are tight with money stereotypes. In any alternate reality it could have been the others with that particular cross to bear..
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. The fact that any race thinks they are the chosen ones fills me with dread. Someone should point out that it doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like. Believing that god gave you all the land west of the river Jordan doesn't - or shouldn't - make it so. A bit less arrogance on that front might have worked wonders in 1948. A strong case can be made that it is the very existence of this Chosen People myth that has caused the ongoing persecution of Jews over the centuries. Historically, the same sort of persecution hounds *any* religious group who consider themselves special and better than others around them who don't follow their religion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Richard, What do you mean by moral reciprocity? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richard@... wrote : Based on the theory of karma, there are no chance events - everything happens for a reason. Karma works on all levels, from a single bade of grass up to the highest devas. According to the theory of karma, the is causation and reaction - human excrement always flows downstream and gravity sucks. There are no exceptions. The question is - does karma also work on the level of moral reciprocity? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. On the other hand, for us outside their culture, the conflict appears to be an ancient struggle for land and revenge. But they have managed to include the rest of the world in their age-old family feud. As we can see, the Americans and European nations are inextricably now involved in this feud in Iraq and Syria, although it appears to be an Islamic issue. As such, we are subjected to terrorists attacks in our cities, such as those that occurred in Paris, France. It would be foolish to think that the current terrorist attack in Paris is an isolated event. You may think that Genesis is a mere fictional story. But for the Jews and Arabs, it is real up to this day. And somehow, we too are involved in this drama as reluctant participants. Nonetheless, some evangelical Christians may or may not welcome this event as the sign for the coming of Armageddon and the subsequent Rapture. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : None of us is a machine or random in here. According to rabbi Kraft, humans came from Adam and Eve. In Hebrew word analysis, Adam means both the spirit of Hashem and the mud from the earth. Are you in the process of converting to Judaism John? Just curious as you seem to be posting a lot of Old Testament cosmology these days. My guess is that Bhairitu is wondering whether we are too predictable in our responses on here. I also think randomness and machinelike thinking play a part in everyone. When we get a stimulus that requires a response we have many options and we all probably cycle through many memes of explanations we've picked up on our journey through life. What we consider the best response will be the one that chimes best with what we have persuaded ourselves is reality, and we have different ways of persuading ourselves, some insist on hard 5 sigma data before accepting new cosmological theories (me) and others judge incoming data by how well it fits in with other things they (or someone they respect) have decided is true. Clearly we can kid ourselves in a major way or can close down options because they don't fit, which is fine as long as you are sure they don't. Most science is done in people's heads to work out whether an experiment is even worth the effort. Definite randomness there in the creation of ideas to test, but channelled towards a hopefully correct response to explain the machine which is what we are. Somehow... Truth is tricky but Genesis is a great story. One of my faves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
None of us is a machine or random in here. According to rabbi Kraft, humans came from Adam and Eve. In Hebrew word analysis, Adam means both the spirit of Hashem and the mud from the earth. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Really? I read these traits in the posts here. Perhaps people don't understand the question. On 01/31/2015 09:41 AM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: None of us is a machine or random in here. According to rabbi Kraft, humans came from Adam and Eve. In Hebrew word analysis, Adam means both the spirit of Hashem and the mud from the earth. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random? Yes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : None of us is a machine or random in here. According to rabbi Kraft, humans came from Adam and Eve. In Hebrew word analysis, Adam means both the spirit of Hashem and the mud from the earth. Are you in the process of converting to Judaism John? Just curious as you seem to be posting a lot of Old Testament cosmology these days. My guess is that Bhairitu is wondering whether we are too predictable in our responses on here. I also think randomness and machinelike thinking play a part in everyone. When we get a stimulus that requires a response we have many options and we all probably cycle through many memes of explanations we've picked up on our journey through life. What we consider the best response will be the one that chimes best with what we have persuaded ourselves is reality, and we have different ways of persuading ourselves, some insist on hard 5 sigma data before accepting new cosmological theories (me) and others judge incoming data by how well it fits in with other things they (or someone they respect) have decided is true. Clearly we can kid ourselves in a major way or can close down options because they don't fit, which is fine as long as you are sure they don't. Most science is done in people's heads to work out whether an experiment is even worth the effort. Definite randomness there in the creation of ideas to test, but channelled towards a hopefully correct response to explain the machine which is what we are. Somehow... Truth is tricky but Genesis is a great story. One of my faves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
salyavin, I'd say that in any moment, especially when it comes to writing,
there are literally infinite possibilities. BUT...given that our neuron
pathways are like dirt roads we are more likely to take a path that's been
taken many times before. It's neurological and quite beyond psychology, even
the mechanistic psychology of stimulus and response.
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 1:14 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :
None of us is a machine or random in here. According to rabbi Kraft, humans
came from Adam and Eve. In Hebrew word analysis, Adam means both the spirit of
Hashem and the mud from the earth.
Are you in the process of converting to Judaism John? Just curious as you seem
to be posting a lot of Old Testament cosmology these days.
My guess is that Bhairitu is wondering whether we are too predictable in our
responses on here.
I also think randomness and machinelike thinking play a part in everyone. When
we get a stimulus that requires a response we have many options and we all
probably cycle through many memes of explanations we've picked up on our
journey through life. What we consider the best response will be the one that
chimes best with what we have persuaded ourselves is reality, and we have
different ways of persuading ourselves, some insist on hard 5 sigma data before
accepting new cosmological theories (me) and others judge incoming data by how
well it fits in with other things they (or someone they respect) have decided
is true.
Clearly we can kid ourselves in a major way or can close down options because
they don't fit, which is fine as long as you are sure they don't. Most science
is done in people's heads to work out whether an experiment is even worth the
effort. Definite randomness there in the creation of ideas to test, but
channelled towards a hopefully correct response to explain the machine which is
what we are. Somehow...
Truth is tricky but Genesis is a great story. One of my faves.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :
Are you machinelike or random? #yiv3475943498 #yiv3475943498 --
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Carrots for sale, and my watch says 25:00 hours. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. On the other hand, for us outside their culture, the conflict appears to be an ancient struggle for land and revenge. But they have managed to include the rest of the world in their age-old family feud. As we can see, the Americans and European nations are inextricably now involved in this feud in Iraq and Syria, although it appears to be an Islamic issue. As such, we are subjected to terrorists attacks in our cities, such as those that occurred in Paris, France. It would be foolish to think that the current terrorist attack in Paris is an isolated event. You may think that Genesis is a mere fictional story. But for the Jews and Arabs, it is real up to this day. And somehow, we too are involved in this drama as reluctant participants. Nonetheless, some evangelical Christians may or may not welcome this event as the sign for the coming of Armageddon and the subsequent Rapture. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : None of us is a machine or random in here. According to rabbi Kraft, humans came from Adam and Eve. In Hebrew word analysis, Adam means both the spirit of Hashem and the mud from the earth. Are you in the process of converting to Judaism John? Just curious as you seem to be posting a lot of Old Testament cosmology these days. My guess is that Bhairitu is wondering whether we are too predictable in our responses on here. I also think randomness and machinelike thinking play a part in everyone. When we get a stimulus that requires a response we have many options and we all probably cycle through many memes of explanations we've picked up on our journey through life. What we consider the best response will be the one that chimes best with what we have persuaded ourselves is reality, and we have different ways of persuading ourselves, some insist on hard 5 sigma data before accepting new cosmological theories (me) and others judge incoming data by how well it fits in with other things they (or someone they respect) have decided is true. Clearly we can kid ourselves in a major way or can close down options because they don't fit, which is fine as long as you are sure they don't. Most science is done in people's heads to work out whether an experiment is even worth the effort. Definite randomness there in the creation of ideas to test, but channelled towards a hopefully correct response to explain the machine which is what we are. Somehow... Truth is tricky but Genesis is a great story. One of my faves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
Based on the theory of karma, there are no chance events - everything happens for a reason. Karma works on all levels, from a single bade of grass up to the highest devas. According to the theory of karma, the is causation and reaction - human excrement always flows downstream and gravity sucks. There are no exceptions. The question is - does karma also work on the level of moral reciprocity? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. On the other hand, for us outside their culture, the conflict appears to be an ancient struggle for land and revenge. But they have managed to include the rest of the world in their age-old family feud. As we can see, the Americans and European nations are inextricably now involved in this feud in Iraq and Syria, although it appears to be an Islamic issue. As such, we are subjected to terrorists attacks in our cities, such as those that occurred in Paris, France. It would be foolish to think that the current terrorist attack in Paris is an isolated event. You may think that Genesis is a mere fictional story. But for the Jews and Arabs, it is real up to this day. And somehow, we too are involved in this drama as reluctant participants. Nonetheless, some evangelical Christians may or may not welcome this event as the sign for the coming of Armageddon and the subsequent Rapture. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : None of us is a machine or random in here. According to rabbi Kraft, humans came from Adam and Eve. In Hebrew word analysis, Adam means both the spirit of Hashem and the mud from the earth. Are you in the process of converting to Judaism John? Just curious as you seem to be posting a lot of Old Testament cosmology these days. My guess is that Bhairitu is wondering whether we are too predictable in our responses on here. I also think randomness and machinelike thinking play a part in everyone. When we get a stimulus that requires a response we have many options and we all probably cycle through many memes of explanations we've picked up on our journey through life. What we consider the best response will be the one that chimes best with what we have persuaded ourselves is reality, and we have different ways of persuading ourselves, some insist on hard 5 sigma data before accepting new cosmological theories (me) and others judge incoming data by how well it fits in with other things they (or someone they respect) have decided is true. Clearly we can kid ourselves in a major way or can close down options because they don't fit, which is fine as long as you are sure they don't. Most science is done in people's heads to work out whether an experiment is even worth the effort. Definite randomness there in the creation of ideas to test, but channelled towards a hopefully correct response to explain the machine which is what we are. Somehow... Truth is tricky but Genesis is a great story. One of my faves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : No, I'm not converting to Judaism. I just reacted to the words written by Bhairitu based on the issues raised by Carde recently and the cosmological models that have been discussed here for the past week or so. But it is interesting to know what the current Jewish rabbis are thinking about the Jewish role in the Middle East conflict. For both the Jews and Arabs, they blame their mutual animosity on the failure of Jews to perform their duties as the Chosen People in the Bible. On the other hand, for us outside their culture, the conflict appears to be an ancient struggle for land and revenge. But they have managed to include the rest of the world in their age-old family feud. As we can see, the Americans and European nations are inextricably now involved in this feud in Iraq and Syria, although it appears to be an Islamic issue. As such, we are subjected to terrorists attacks in our cities, such as those that occurred in Paris, France. It would be foolish to think that the current terrorist attack in Paris is an isolated event. You may think that Genesis is a mere fictional story. But for the Jews and Arabs, it is real up to this day. That's the problem, they think it's real. And somehow, we too are involved in this drama as reluctant participants. Nonetheless, some evangelical Christians may or may not welcome this event as the sign for the coming of Armageddon and the subsequent Rapture.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Machinelike or Random?
So you are a random then. Which fits your online personality and since you are a creative person is what you want to be. The genesis of these terms is that random was applied back in the 1980s and 90s to the programmers that tended *not *to be methodical and engineering types but more creative. Some left brained techies had a hard time dealing with them. I used to have long debates with software engineers as too whether software development was a left or right brained discipline. Left brained is for the tools and right brained for the ideas (and solutions). As for machinelike as I have mentioned here before I started noticing that the non-programming folks at the company I worked at in the 1990s wanted to be more like machines as they saw that as the pathway to a raise, better position and bigger yearly bonus. At the same time the company was trying to get *them* to be more creative while I needed my programmers to be more practical and finish their projects instead of dreaming up another one (yes, managing programmers *is* like herding cats). At the end of the 1990s I saw an interview with a robotics scientist who said he was seeing the same thing I was that people wanted to be more machinelike. He thought that was wrong. I would highly doubt that much of anyone here is machinelike though they might turn on that mindset as needed. Supposedly meditation practices make most people more right brained than left. Unfortunately we have people like Ray Kurzweil who think that people should be more machinelike. He is just so wrong. On 01/31/2015 10:41 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Are you machinelike or random? Yes.
