[FairfieldLife] Re: My experience with the awakened Kundalini
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am typing in a dark room in Germany. Hey, come out! The sun is shining.
[FairfieldLife] Re: My experience with the awakened Kundalini
Hello, I am typing in a dark room in Germany. I know the keyboard but will keet it short because I cant type as fast as Rick. What is interesting is what came about in my writting the posts as I was reporting my experiences, and the conclusion that ended was 1. Who am I 2. How sure are you about that answer This is why as I was typeing, I wrote as concrete as can be unless a hammer smashes it. For starters, people may want to plant these two questions deeply within and see what comes out Any one that wants to answer those questions now in a post, be my guest, would love to read the answers The exchange between Barry and I is transcended in this moment, lots of intellectual exchange on both sides, so it seems Tanmay Tanmay
[FairfieldLife] Re: My experience with the awakened Kundalini
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note I am not being a parakeet when I tell you that my experience is it is moving me faster to enlightenment. Let me put it this way, I feel this very stronly. It is giving experience of the things I hear are the signs of what enlightenment is. With all due respect, and with the fervent hope that you are correct, I think you're forgetting something, Ron. Your *belief* that you are moving faster to enlightenment is based on what you *have been told*. Your *belief* that these things are the signs of what enlightenment is are based on *what you have been told*. You have made a decision to *believe* what you have been told. That doesn't necessarily make it so. I sincerely hope it is, and that you are making all the progress that you feel you are, but from my point of view you could be experiencing normal, everyday bursts of energy that pretty much everyone on a spiritual path would be noticing if they had been told to pay attention to them and weight them and assign them value, and to *interpret* them as progress towards enlightenment. In a TM context, for example, these things would be considered just another experience, and no weight would be given to them. Same thing in many Buddhist traditions. But in the path you've chosen, these experiences have been described as special, as mean- ingful. That makes you special and your experiences meaningful. I reported in using the term everything is falling away before i noticed it to be a common term used because this is something many in my path are experiencing. And have been *told* that they should* experience. And have been *told* that having these experiences makes them a little special, and indicates that they are making rapid progress towards enlightenment. So are they going to put a bit of emphasis on *having* these experiences? Well, duh. Any opinion that disagrees with what I just said is like one telling me that I am wrong about the ice cream tasting sweet. No, it's merely reminding you that you were *told* that the ice cream would taste sweet, and that ice cream is the pathway to enlightenment. That doesn't necessarily mean that eating ice cream would get you enlightened. It might just make you fat. :-) Here's a test for you. Is it *possible* that kundalini experiences mean absolutely *nothing* about one's proximity to enlightened states of mind, and that they are Just Another Phenomenon, one that shouldn't be weighted more than any other? If you bristled at that idea, then I'd suggest that what you've been told about kundalini and its importance might have been aimed more at your ego than at freeing yourself from it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: My experience with the awakened Kundalini
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron sidha7001@ wrote: Note I am not being a parakeet when I tell you that my experience is it is moving me faster to enlightenment. Let me put it this way, I feel this very stronly. It is giving experience of the things I hear are the signs of what enlightenment is. With all due respect, and with the fervent hope that you are correct, I think you're forgetting something, Ron. Your *belief* that you are moving faster to enlightenment is based on what you *have been told*. Your *belief* that these things are the signs of what enlightenment is are based on *what you have been told*. You have made a decision to *believe* what you have been told. That doesn't necessarily make it so. I firmly stand by what I said- I am completely aware of the experience and how it can be viewed by others as it is here. This time, in light of a parakeet accusation, I paid close attention when i said that this is my experience. I am stateing specifically the ice cream tastes good- you beg to differ, telling me that just because I say it tastes good, well I am just believing it because I am told that , etc No, the experience is concrete - as concrete as who you define who you are right now- so to the degree the concrete can be smashed with a sledge hammer, that is how comcrete my experience is that I wrote I sincerely hope it is, and that you are making all the progress that you feel you are, but from my point of view you could be experiencing normal, everyday bursts of energy that pretty much everyone on a spiritual path would be noticing if they had been told to pay attention to them and weight them and assign them value, and to *interpret* them as progress towards enlightenment. The knowing in this case is my own direct experience, no need to be told anything. In this case, I wasn't asking the Guru, I was telling the Guru what it is In a TM context, for example, these things would be considered just another experience, and no weight would be given to them. What things? It is a state of consciousness known to me through direct experience- directly related to the kundalini- I am paying attention as I write that this is not a parakeet speaking since you are throwing this accusation out, for which I would not deny when it is past my own experience- will let you know in this letter when I am reporting what the guru has to say as compared with my own experience for which I tell the Guru what is there, so far in this letter, that is the case. Maybe in my past posts, similar claims I am makeing above are interpreted as what I am told verses what I concretely experience. No, the above is direct experience and it is beyond what I had in TM, however, cant speak for others Same thing in many Buddhist traditions. But in the path you've chosen, these experiences have been described as special, as mean- ingful. That makes you special and your experiences meaningful. They are just what is there, what took and is taking place- I am not in a position to label it because then it means just where i am with regard to enlightenment, it should even mean I am enlightened in order to box up and label just where I am with the journey, I dont know what enlightenment is like, I have only heard about it I reported in using the term everything is falling away before i noticed it to be a common term used because this is something many in my path are experiencing. And have been *told* that they should* experience. And have been *told* that having these experiences makes them a little special, and indicates that they are making rapid progress towards enlightenment. So are they going to put a bit of emphasis on *having* these experiences? Well, duh. I dont follow you exactly but make no mistake about it, there is both guidence and faith on my path, and as I said beyond my own experience, I can only report what those claiming enlightenment say- that is being a parakeet for the points- that evil word parakeet. One can also be a parakeet in throwing the parakeet accusation out- for it is the case that it is belief for all until enlightenment, and there is, even in sincere ones on the path, a mouthing off of what the guru says. to the degree that it is actualized, that part is not reading or hearing about what the ice crea tastes like, it is tasting it. Then to one that hasn't, they can accuse one of thinking they are tasting it but not. This again is why I was mindfull above when I stated that anyone opposing the points I stated are giving me an argument that what I am saying I am tasting is wrong- I was very mindfull of what I wrote as my own experience- again, yes, my direct experience is knowing it is in the direction of enlightenment- it is as real as the report of what cookies and cream tastes like (how real is
[FairfieldLife] Re: My experience with the awakened Kundalini
Ron, I'm really not trying to argue with you or accuse you of anything -- that's how you're reacting. I merely presented a different way of looking at your experience. That you respond to that different way of seeing things as an accusation says more, IMO, than the experiences. More below, *again* not to argue or to accuse or to say that I'm right and you're wrong (neither of which I believe or am capable of stating definitively), but just to look at things from another point of view. How you relate to that different point of view is your business, just as your experience is your experience. I would never quibble with that experience, merely with how you interpret it, and merely to point out that there are other possible interpretations. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron sidha7001@ wrote: Note I am not being a parakeet when I tell you that my experience is it is moving me faster to enlightenment. Let me put it this way, I feel this very stronly. It is giving experience of the things I hear are the signs of what enlightenment is. With all due respect, and with the fervent hope that you are correct, I think you're forgetting something, Ron. Your *belief* that you are moving faster to enlightenment is based on what you *have been told*. Your *belief* that these things are the signs of what enlightenment is are based on *what you have been told*. You have made a decision to *believe* what you have been told. That doesn't necessarily make it so. I firmly stand by what I said- I am completely aware of the experience and how it can be viewed by others as it is here. This time, in light of a parakeet accusation... Parrot. Parakeets, as far as I know, cannot be taught to repeat phrases. ...I paid close attention when i said that this is my experience. And I appreciate that, and I have *no problem* with your experience. May you continue to have many more of them, and may you continue to enjoy them thoroughly. I am stateing specifically the ice cream tastes good- you beg to differ, telling me that just because I say it tastes good, well I am just believing it because I am told that , etc Go back and read what I wrote, as opposed to what you read into it. I *never* stated or even suggested that your experience of the ice cream was in any way false, or that it didn't taste sweet to you. I merely pointed out that your *interpretation* of the meaning of your experience of eating ice cream (experiencing kundalini phenomena and relating them to your spiritual progress) was open to other inter- pretations, and that it could have been biased by what you'd been *told* about such experiences. In Santa Fe, New Mexico there is a popular desert consisting of vanilla ice cream with cayenne pepper added to it. It's really delicious, a true taste treat. But if one had been primed before eating it with only the information that ice cream is sweet, that would not prepare one for the real experience itself. Similarly, if a person tried to explain the experience of eating such a desert to someone who has never tried it, they're going to wonder about the person's perceptions: This guy is describing the experience of eating ice cream as leaving a not-unpleasant but surprising burning taste in one's mouth and throat. That sure isn't *my* experience of eating ice cream, nor does it fit into *my* ideas of what ice cream is. Similarly, I have *no problem* with your experiences, whatever they may be. I'm only pointing out that there may be other ways of looking at and interpreting those experiences. No, the experience is concrete - as concrete as who you define who you are right now- That's not very concrete, dude. You might want to search for a different metaphor. :-) so to the degree the concrete can be smashed with a sledge hammer, that is how comcrete my experience is that I wrote And *as* experience, I have nothing to say about it. As *interpretation* of experience, I have the right to view it differently than you do. I sincerely hope it is, and that you are making all the progress that you feel you are, but from my point of view you could be experiencing normal, everyday bursts of energy that pretty much everyone on a spiritual path would be noticing if they had been told to pay attention to them and weight them and assign them value, and to *interpret* them as progress towards enlightenment. The knowing in this case is my own direct experience, no need to be told anything. But you *were* told something. You were told that it's a *good* experience, one that indicates that you are making progress towards enlightenment. All I'm suggest- ing is that this might have colored your *interpretation* of the experience. In this case, I wasn't asking the Guru, I was telling the Guru
[FairfieldLife] Re: My experience with the awakened Kundalini
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ron, I'm really not trying to argue with you or accuse you of anything -- that's how you're reacting. I merely presented a different way of looking at your experience. That you respond to that different way of seeing things as an accusation says more, IMO, than the experiences. BTW, this is a standard trap that Barry sets when he feels like putting someone down: He delivers a series of questions that are designed to make them feel they're being accused of something, but are carefully phrased to give him plausible deniability. Then when the person responds to the accusatory tone, he puts them down for being defensive and reading in to what he wrote, suggesting that the implied accusations they're objecting to were on target. This enables him to win, in his own mind at least. snip Parrot. Parakeets, as far as I know, cannot be taught to repeat phrases. Yes, they can. They aren't as voluble as parrots or as easy to train, but they're known for their talking abilities. In Santa Fe, New Mexico there is a popular desert consisting of vanilla ice cream with cayenne pepper added to it. Wow, a whole desert made of ice cream! How does it stay frozen in the heat? snip I *understand* that many do *not* believe as I do, and feel (as they have been told to feel) that when one is enlightened one sees correctly, or accurately, or without any possible distortion. Note that when anybody says anything about enlightenment that's different from what Barry believes, it's because they're just parroting what they've been told.
[FairfieldLife] Re: My experience with the awakened Kundalini
---Thanks, much appreciated! The first part of your discussion (below) pertains to free will vs determinism, Dharmic behavior vs adharmic; and such matters. Definite conclusions in these topics are speculative; whereas the topics following that are a matter of your own direct experience; i.e. experiential reports. OTOH basing philosophical conclusions on heresay statements such as I and My Father are One are in the nature of speculative hypotheses. Short of definitive answers regarding topics such as free will and dharma; we are left with commonsense conclusions regarding the behavior of Gurus: if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, etc...it must be a duck. Similarly, the behavior of Gurus can be evaluated objectively without resort extraneous, unprovable philosophical assumptions. I don't know Swami G. But if he jaywalks, a cop should give him a ticket. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Firstly, I am not sure where it came from but I was even inquireing with Swami G in the begining. Somehow I was under this impression that the enlightened can not say it and if they do, then for sure, they are not. The response to that was nonsense, didn't Christ Say 'I and the Father are One, and I am told Budda said things also. Swami G said, what is , is. So, I am telling it like it is when I put this title to the post. I guess many people can also claim things like enlightenment or awakened Kundalini, when it is not the case. Note I am not being a parakeet when I tell you that my experience is it is moving me faster to enlightenment. Let me put it this way, I feel this very stronly. It is giving experience of the things I hear are the signs of what enlightenment is. I reported in using the term everything is falling away before i noticed it to be a common term used because this is something many in my path are experiencing. Any opinion that disagrees with what I just said is like one telling me that I am wrong about the ice cream tasting sweet. Anyway, I also confirm the blessing that it is by direct experience. so this is the result of the Kundalini Path for me- and i responsibly emphasized that it is not about chasing phenomina or trying to force it open or being under the care of one that took 200 hours of yoga class or a reiki master with some weeks of training. I have said the guide should be enlightened, having gone the whole journey from start to finish. This last paragraph is passing on info as well from my Guru. Now, I only told you what happened with me, and it was a venture into the unknown by entering the path. That is how it is, so addressing Alex, when you said your point, ok, your choice. I dont know how your experiences would be, maybe similar, maybe entirely different. Swami G said mostly the ones with the hell are the ones where it opened spontaneously and there is no guidance in place- they run to dr's and they have no clue what is taking place. There are at least 4 people in the coming months that will be taking diksha ( initiation). This is not a common event. since I took Diksha in may, 2006, there have been maybe 10, some of them did not tell the truth and did not keep in touch as they agreed. swami G cautions that this is not a momentary blessing. One of the commitments is to keep in touch at least once a month, and to do the practices as given. She says it is better not to take diksha if you are not going to honor those commitments because you will not get any lasting benefit. People ignore that, take diksha , then fall off the path rather quickly and they have lost their chance,- that is how Swami G puts it. All of the different stuff being offered here on FFL, it looks like the Universe is offering choices.
