[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keep us in touch how it goes with your experience. I am glad mine made some sense to you. Things are happening in world consciousness, and I think we will see massive changes in our lifetimes. Remember to wear your seatbelt ! OffWorld It's already happening ofcourse, both inside and out. Heaven will walk on earth - in this generation. - Maharishi
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --Let the buyer beware. It's our responsibility, which becomes skilled in the light of additional direct experience: IMO the more Gurus the better. This provides an insurance plan against getting duped by any possible charlatans; but more important, in all likelihood, the vast majority of Gurus (unless ouright phonies); have SOMETHING to offer that might be of value; in which case it's our responsibility to separate the wheat from the chaff. Example: Once Baba Ram Dass (Dr. Richard Alpert) was on the radio in the 70's commenting on MMY. His conclusion was that what MMY had to offer was of no value Was that the fellow who committed suicide ?
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bronte Baxter Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin) We do. I know the movement definition, and they fit it, with lots of individuality besides. Real dynamic people, with the silence of Self as background all the time. I'm not going to get into dissecting their inner workings, folks. These are mostly friends of mine. Don’t answer this now, because you’re over your quota, but after Friday night, please say a bit about these folks’ spiritual background – what sorts of teachers and practices they may have been involved with, if any. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1013 - Release Date: 9/17/2007 1:29 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: --Let the buyer beware. It's our responsibility, which becomes skilled in the light of additional direct experience: IMO the more Gurus the better. This provides an insurance plan against getting duped by any possible charlatans; but more important, in all likelihood, the vast majority of Gurus (unless ouright phonies); have SOMETHING to offer that might be of value; in which case it's our responsibility to separate the wheat from the chaff. Example: Once Baba Ram Dass (Dr. Richard Alpert) was on the radio in the 70's commenting on MMY. His conclusion was that what MMY had to offer was of no value Was that the fellow who committed suicide ? Nope, he's still alive.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More on this: Have these half dozen enlightened people who live within a 15-mile radius of you reached the pinnacle of human evolution? Must be something in the water. To my understanding, there is a vast range of spiritual growth possible, and many awakenings along the way. People often experience a few of these and assume theyre enlightened, like grade-schoolers assuming theyre educated. Of course, they are, to a degree, but it would be a shame if they assumed that they knew all there was to know and stopped there. To extend the analogy, a few people manage to self-educate to the Ph.D. level, but its very rare. The vast majority will benefit from formal education. And in that, there will be a vast differences in quality between various teachers. Because some are duds doesnt mean all are, nor that the teacher-student tradition on the whole is bogus. You might say that attaining enlightenment is different than becoming educated, because the latter involves developing relative skills and accumulating relative information, whereas enlightenment involves realizing what you already are. But the rarity of enlightenment, notwithstanding your locale, says to me that it doesnt just happen to the average person, just as education doesnt, and that disciplined instruction is advantageous for most. I like Ramana Maharishis comment when people spontaneously awoke, They did the needed work before By before he meant a previous lifetime. Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Archer Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:51 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin) From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bronte Baxter Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin) We do. I know the movement definition, and they fit it, with lots of individuality besides. Real dynamic people, with the silence of Self as background all the time. I'm not going to get into dissecting their inner workings, folks. These are mostly friends of mine. Don’t answer this now, because you’re over your quota, but after Friday night, please say a bit about these folks’ spiritual background – what sorts of teachers and practices they may have been involved with, if any. More on this: Have these half dozen “enlightened” people who live within a 15-mile radius of you reached the pinnacle of human evolution? Must be something in the water. To my understanding, there is a vast range of spiritual growth possible, and many awakenings along the way. People often experience a few of these and assume they’re enlightened, like grade-schoolers assuming they’re educated. Of course, they are, to a degree, but it would be a shame if they assumed that they knew all there was to know and stopped there. To extend the analogy, a few people manage to self-educate to the Ph.D. level, but it’s very rare. The vast majority will benefit from formal education. And in that, there will be a vast differences in quality between various teachers. Because some are duds doesn’t mean all are, nor that the teacher-student tradition on the whole is bogus. You might say that attaining enlightenment is different than becoming educated, because the latter involves developing relative skills and accumulating relative information, whereas enlightenment involves realizing what you already are. But the rarity of enlightenment, notwithstanding your locale, says to me that it doesn’t just “happen” to the average person, just as education doesn’t, and that disciplined instruction is advantageous for most. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1013 - Release Date: 9/17/2007 1:29 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: snip Example: Once Baba Ram Dass (Dr. Richard Alpert) was on the radio in the 70's commenting on MMY. His conclusion was that what MMY had to offer was of no value Was that the fellow who committed suicide? Nope, he's still very much with us.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
The only guidance needed is one's own inner guidance. It's the nature of the human spirit to wake up. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This looks like it could be kundalini awakening or attempting to awake - good to have proper guidance, this is not available in TM- it requres working directly with a kundalini master that has traversed the kundlini path from start to realization. In case you have not noticed, I am in the kundalini path but there are also other such masters that are capable to guide. Kundalini especially is active around 3 3o am, if it is an on going thing and not ocasional, then this may be the awakened kundalini- it cant be switched off- it can be the greatest blessing or greatest curse- most likely the former when proper guidance is in place --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ wrote: Off-World, this is absolutely exciting. I've always wanted to talk to someone who was having red-hot, metal-melting kundulini on an almost daily basis. I have so much I want to ask. So here goes, with inserted questions below. (For anyone who missed Off-World's fascinating post, I've also left the original intact at the bottom.) Off-World wrote: snip It is full of bliss, all-power, bright light, emptiness, and fear all at the same time. Very strange. Hmm. I don't feel fear or emptiness when I have the burning, although I don't like it when I want to fall asleep. Can you sleep when this is going on? It is like a half-way sleep, sometimes asleep, often woken up, and often aware of it during sleep. Sometimes softer, sometimes stronger. About the fear and emptiness ... what is it that's empty? What is the fear OF? That you will burn up? I The fear is of anihilation. It seems like anihilation, like something else could take over that is not me, but I have come to the point of facing that very powerful sense, and not fearing the fear so to speak. have considered sometimes that if the burning I feel got much more intense, it WOULD be scary -- I'd be afraid I was going to burn up. Do you think people CAN burn up from kundulini? I don't know. Part of what I am getting is that it could destroy me, but I decided to not be afraid of that. I suppose if a person thinks that they, as an individual, is important, then it defeats the part of the purpose of enlightenment, which is letting go of ego. So the paradox is that the fear is of annihilation, but humans naturally have a strong sense of self preservation, and unless they aceept the possibility of total annihilation of the soul, then they are still atached to their own ego. It is normal to fear annihilation of the soul I think, but I have decided that is a barrier to my evolution, and so I decided to never fear that natural fear anymore. My one weensy soul is not important to the universe, so why not risk it. People who've died of spontaneous combustion -- do you think that's what it was all about? Not sure, could be related, it sometimes actuall feels like that could happen, but I don't think this would happen with most people, if it were a potential. My take on the fear thing is that while it's present with kundulini at times, it is not kundulini itself but rather a person's resistance to it, their doubting of it. By itself, kudulini is power and fire and beautiful. It is the trumpet call that wakes the spirit and calls the body to new life. Maybe that's what the angel's trumpet call symbolizes in the Book of Revelations. Maybe,and I think fear is necessary. You cannot annihilate fear. It is natural to the universe. I heard Maharishi explain once that the infinity is afraid of being annihilated by the point value and visa- versa, so it is inbuilt into the dynamics of existence. The 3 in 1 structure of consciousness (Being) is a direct result of this reverberation as one extreme expands to the other, and back. I did not get, nor accept, Maharishi's answer at that time(to a purusha guy's question about how he was percieving fear within the transcndent or something like that). In fact, I was annoyed by this talk of fear, and ignored it. But now, I can see the importance of it. It is a wonderful thing. So I am starting to think of fear as an energy, it is just that humans and other animals use that energy as a tool of practical life, such that it becomes ingrained as something negative. But we need to pull back and see the big picture. It is an energy, and I think that yogis learn to transform (not annihilate, or ignore) that energy into power. Just a thought. Could be wrong though. The purification is like a hot metal rod burning, but it is not damaging or painful, only healing. Oftentimes (3 or 4 times a week), it fills most of my sleeping night
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
About the fear and emptiness ... what is it that's empty? What is the fear OF? That you will burn up? I The fear is of anihilation. It seems like anihilation, like something else could take over that is not me, but I have come to the point of facing that very powerful sense, and not fearing the fear so to speak. I think I have the same fear only I experience it differently. I don't fear that I as a person could be annihilated but that my body could be. And I fear that the fire I have to walk through is too strange, that I'll be completely scrambled and come out completely different on the other side. Sort of like how I suppose I'd feel if someone were going to beam me up for the first time in a Star Trek scenario. I don't know. Part of what I am getting is that it could destroy me, but I decided to not be afraid of that. I suppose if a person thinks that they, as an individual, is important, then it defeats the part of the purpose of enlightenment, which is letting go of ego. So the paradox is that the fear is of annihilation, but humans naturally have a strong sense of self preservation, and unless they aceept the possibility of total annihilation of the soul, then they are still atached to their own ego. It is normal to fear annihilation of the soul I think, but I have decided that is a barrier to my evolution, and so I decided to never fear that natural fear anymore. My one weensy soul is not important to the universe, so why not risk it. I think you're very courageous for moving through the fear. But I don't think it's at all true that your precious soul is not important to the universe. That's like saying the branch is not important to the tree. The tree needs the branch, it's a part of itself. Even when the branch realizes it is tree, it will always still be branch, and important as such. It just will have a much broader vision. Maybe,and I think fear is necessary. You cannot annihilate fear. It is natural to the universe. I heard Maharishi explain once that the infinity is afraid of being annihilated by the point value and visa- versa, so it is inbuilt into the dynamics of existence. The 3 in 1 structure of consciousness (Being) is a direct result of this reverberation as one extreme expands to the other, and back. I did not get, nor accept, Maharishi's answer at that time(to a purusha guy's question about how he was percieving fear within the transcndent or something like that). In fact, I was annoyed by this talk of fear, and ignored it. But now, I can see the importance of it. It is a wonderful thing. So I am starting to think of fear as an energy, it is just that humans and other animals use that energy as a tool of practical life, such that it becomes ingrained as something negative. But we need to pull back and see the big picture. It is an energy, and I think that yogis learn to transform (not annihilate, or ignore) that energy into power. I like that last part -- that fear is just an energy and that yogis learn to transform it into power. I think you're onto something here. I don't agree that fear is intrinsic to life though or anything like that. To me, fear is the gap, the g in Agni (if you remember MMY's teaching on that). It's the place Consciousness fell into when it manifested into diversity. First there was just wholeness, then it went to express. As it started to split into myriad forms, it got scared, feeling separate and alone and unsure. It felt detached from its Source. So all creation developed with fear at its very core, at its very heart. When we go backwards, reclimbing the stair, we experience the fear in our core again -- very consciously -- right before we reattain the wholeness. In making the fear conscious and moving forward anyway, we dissolve it and are freed. That's my intuitive feeling about it anyway. I cannot be sure it should be called kundalini. It is very powerful and extreme and hits the brain like a bolt of electricity, but bright and purifying. Well, I'm convinced it's kundulini. What else could it be? I let it do its thing. I have always felt it was a good thing (though sometimes I was scared of the annihilation sense), and it ALWAYS ends in a sweet bathing of bliss for and hour or more. You inspire me with your courage and your trust in the goodness and naturalness of the experience. What you've said will help me to do the same. Not that I have it all the time like you do, but when it's there, I will be more willing. I just let it do its thing and I like it. Yes, that's the ticket. It's the Self unfolding the Self to the self. Yes, and that sense of that immortal being that I get, I cannot even call it 'me' at all. I just can't see that, and that is where that fear of annihilation comes in. But I decided that 'me' is nothing important, and to just go with it when it comes. I always still
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only guidance needed is one's own inner guidance. It's the nature of the human spirit to wake up. My comments, coming from my path will mirror that of Ramana Maharishi's admonisions. Regarding a mentor or Guru, it is 100% that one will need this for unfolding enlightenment. Some very rare one's will do it on their own. It is ego which declares a Guru is not needed, or even I am that rare one - after all, Ramana did it this way and so can I. Why? because one in darkness needs light- and the light is just not there. If it were, then one wouldn't be in darkness.The Guru is the one that has traversed the journey from start to Realization, having gone through it, they are the light to show others. In my path, it is not that they desire to be guru or step forward to do so, they are commissioned by their own Guru's to do so.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
[Bronte: The only guidance needed is one's own inner guidance. It's the nature of the human spirit to wake up.] Ron: My comments, coming from my path will mirror that of Ramana Maharishi's admonisions. Bronte: I disagree with almost everything of the philosophy of the Neo-Advaitins, RM's very much included. Ron: Regarding a mentor or Guru, it is 100% that one will need this for unfolding enlightenment. Bronte: This is a typical guru mind-enslavement statement: You can't do it without me. It spiritually disempowering of seekers and self-aggrandizing of gurus, designed to suck in clients. It's like a real estate agent telling you can't possibly sell our house successfully without an agent to guide you. Imagine what would happen to business if people realized they could do it by themselves? Ron: Some very rare one's will do it on their own. It is ego which declares a Guru is not needed, or even I am that rare one - after all, Ramana did it this way and so can I. Bronte: Good sales line: it's your ego. That one really snags the spiritual consumer. Get 'em with their guilt. Way to go, Ramana Maharishi! Ron: Why? because one in darkness needs light- and the light is just not there. If it were, then one wouldn't be in darkness.The Guru is the one that has traversed the journey from start to Realization, having gone through it, they are the light to show others. Bronte: What do you mean, the light is just not there? What is a human being's nature, darkness or light? Don't you believe that everything is God's light? Then how can you think one can't become aware of that light within themselves by the power of that light within themselves? To wake up to one's nature is as natural as waking up in the morning. Saying you can't do it by yourself is like saying you'd never wake up in the morning if you didn't have your mother to call you. Ron: In my path, it is not that they desire to be guru or step forward to do so, they are commissioned by their own Guru's to do so. Bronte: That may well be. It's those who've bought the sales pitch who are best equipped to perpetuate it. - Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
---Sure, one can get Enlightened without a Guru; likewise, one can learn how to play the violin without a teacher. (as Borak would sayNOT!). In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Bronte: The only guidance needed is one's own inner guidance. It's the nature of the human spirit to wake up.] Ron: My comments, coming from my path will mirror that of Ramana Maharishi's admonisions. Bronte: I disagree with almost everything of the philosophy of the Neo- Advaitins, RM's very much included. Ron: Regarding a mentor or Guru, it is 100% that one will need this for unfolding enlightenment. Bronte: This is a typical guru mind-enslavement statement: You can't do it without me. It spiritually disempowering of seekers and self- aggrandizing of gurus, designed to suck in clients. It's like a real estate agent telling you can't possibly sell our house successfully without an agent to guide you. Imagine what would happen to business if people realized they could do it by themselves? Ron: Some very rare one's will do it on their own. It is ego which declares a Guru is not needed, or even I am that rare one - after all, Ramana did it this way and so can I. Bronte: Good sales line: it's your ego. That one really snags the spiritual consumer. Get 'em with their guilt. Way to go, Ramana Maharishi! Ron: Why? because one in darkness needs light- and the light is just not there. If it were, then one wouldn't be in darkness.The Guru is the one that has traversed the journey from start to Realization, having gone through it, they are the light to show others. Bronte: What do you mean, the light is just not there? What is a human being's nature, darkness or light? Don't you believe that everything is God's light? Then how can you think one can't become aware of that light within themselves by the power of that light within themselves? To wake up to one's nature is as natural as waking up in the morning. Saying you can't do it by yourself is like saying you'd never wake up in the morning if you didn't have your mother to call you. Ron: In my path, it is not that they desire to be guru or step forward to do so, they are commissioned by their own Guru's to do so. Bronte: That may well be. It's those who've bought the sales pitch who are best equipped to perpetuate it. - Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
---Sure, one can get Enlightened without a Guru; likewise, one can learn how to play the violin without a teacher. (as Borak would sayNOT !). Bronte: Curious, I know lots of people who've taught themselves musical instruments. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
---So which approach is easier, with, or without a teacher? (in generaly, don't talk about isolated exceptions). In advance, let's take care of one exception: HWL Poonja. He states that in his last incarnation (prior to being HWL Poonja...died in the 90's), he was an advanced Krishna-bhakti Yogi. Then as Poonja in the course of his travels as an engineer, he happens to get an urge to visit Ramana Maharshi in his cave. Poonja tells RM about his many visions of Krishna, and RM asks, Are you having a vision right now?. Then after a few more leading questions RM in essence tells Poonja he's already Enlightened. Poonja got it and became Enlightened on the spot. But then, RM was a teacher, wasn't he? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Sure, one can get Enlightened without a Guru; likewise, one can learn how to play the violin without a teacher. (as Borak would sayNOT !). Bronte: Curious, I know lots of people who've taught themselves musical instruments. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
Bronte: My friend, what should I call you? I can't pronounce your web name -- so, friend: Thanks for this observation, and I agree: learning to play an instrument is often easier with a teacher, but not always. And teachers are not essential, although most gurus will tell you that they are. It's one thing to say I'm a great real estate agent and will help you sell your house if you like versus saying You will never sell your house without my help, you poor miserable schlep. The latter being analogous to most gurus are saying. And I'll continue to gripe about that kind of manipulation. --So which approach is easier, with, or without a teacher? (in generaly, don't talk about isolated exceptions). In advance, let's take care of one exception: HWL Poonja. He states that in his last incarnation (prior to being HWL Poonja...died in the 90's), he was an advanced Krishna-bhakti Yogi. Then as Poonja in the course of his travels as an engineer, he happens to get an urge to visit Ramana Maharshi in his cave. Poonja tells RM about his many visions of Krishna, and RM asks, Are you having a vision right now?. Then after a few more leading questions RM in essence tells Poonja he's already Enlightened. Poonja got it and became Enlightened on the spot. But then, RM was a teacher, wasn't he? In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ ... wrote: ---Sure, one can get Enlightened without a Guru; likewise, one can learn how to play the violin without a teacher. (as Borak would sayNOT !). Bronte: Curious, I know lots of people who've taught themselves musical instruments. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--Let the buyer beware. It's our responsibility, which becomes skilled in the light of additional direct experience: IMO the more Gurus the better. This provides an insurance plan against getting duped by any possible charlatans; but more important, in all likelihood, the vast majority of Gurus (unless ouright phonies); have SOMETHING to offer that might be of value; in which case it's our responsibility to separate the wheat from the chaff. Example: Once Baba Ram Dass (Dr. Richard Alpert) was on the radio in the 70's commenting on MMY. His conclusion was that what MMY had to offer was of no value because (in Ram Dass's opinion), he seemed to be attached to money. So what, even if this were true (actually, from a Spiritual perspective this would be impossible - a topic covered recently; the outer exhibition is another story reserved for later discussion). But what does this have to do with TM as a technique?. So, in a relative sense nobody's perfect. See the benefits in anything/everything, and discard what's useless. So, you believe that people can get Enlightened without a Guru. OK, name one such person. That's your challenge for today. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bronte: My friend, what should I call you? I can't pronounce your web name -- so, friend: Thanks for this observation, and I agree: learning to play an instrument is often easier with a teacher, but not always. And teachers are not essential, although most gurus will tell you that they are. It's one thing to say I'm a great real estate agent and will help you sell your house if you like versus saying You will never sell your house without my help, you poor miserable schlep. The latter being analogous to most gurus are saying. And I'll continue to gripe about that kind of manipulation. --So which approach is easier, with, or without a teacher? (in generaly, don't talk about isolated exceptions). In advance, let's take care of one exception: HWL Poonja. He states that in his last incarnation (prior to being HWL Poonja...died in the 90's), he was an advanced Krishna-bhakti Yogi. Then as Poonja in the course of his travels as an engineer, he happens to get an urge to visit Ramana Maharshi in his cave. Poonja tells RM about his many visions of Krishna, and RM asks, Are you having a vision right now?. Then after a few more leading questions RM in essence tells Poonja he's already Enlightened. Poonja got it and became Enlightened on the spot. But then, RM was a teacher, wasn't he? In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ ... wrote: ---Sure, one can get Enlightened without a Guru; likewise, one can learn how to play the violin without a teacher. (as Borak would sayNOT !). Bronte: Curious, I know lots of people who've taught themselves musical instruments. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
Bronte, you're over generalizing. Of course I get your point about the possible dangers involved with an overcontrolling guru. But you seem to try to apply this to every guru/chela relationship and it just ain't so. MMY is a great example of an over-controlling guru. You cut your teeth on him, like I did, so of course you're head shy about gurus. Just don't say all guru relationships are like this. And by the way, the majority of people who attempt to learn an instrument on their own, don't. They know three chords, two songs, etc. Some people can learn an instrument on their own, but they're alweays listening to music, so the music is their guru. The odds of going from avidya to realization without help from the Absolute in some form or shape is just about nil. --- Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bronte: My friend, what should I call you? I can't pronounce your web name -- so, friend: Thanks for this observation, and I agree: learning to play an instrument is often easier with a teacher, but not always. And teachers are not essential, although most gurus will tell you that they are. It's one thing to say I'm a great real estate agent and will help you sell your house if you like versus saying You will never sell your house without my help, you poor miserable schlep. The latter being analogous to most gurus are saying. And I'll continue to gripe about that kind of manipulation. --So which approach is easier, with, or without a teacher? (in generaly, don't talk about isolated exceptions). In advance, let's take care of one exception: HWL Poonja. He states that in his last incarnation (prior to being HWL Poonja...died in the 90's), he was an advanced Krishna-bhakti Yogi. Then as Poonja in the course of his travels as an engineer, he happens to get an urge to visit Ramana Maharshi in his cave. Poonja tells RM about his many visions of Krishna, and RM asks, Are you having a vision right now?. Then after a few more leading questions RM in essence tells Poonja he's already Enlightened. Poonja got it and became Enlightened on the spot. But then, RM was a teacher, wasn't he? In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ ... wrote: ---Sure, one can get Enlightened without a Guru; likewise, one can learn how to play the violin without a teacher. (as Borak would sayNOT !). Bronte: Curious, I know lots of people who've taught themselves musical instruments. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
Gordon Grobelny, Loralin Tomlin, Krista Fisher, Mary Kaminski, Richard Spang ... these are just off the top of my head, people living within 15 miles of me. matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --Let the buyer beware. It's our responsibility, which becomes skilled in the light of additional direct experience: IMO the more Gurus the better. This provides an insurance plan against getting duped by any possible charlatans; but more important, in all likelihood, the vast majority of Gurus (unless ouright phonies); have SOMETHING to offer that might be of value; in which case it's our responsibility to separate the wheat from the chaff. Example: Once Baba Ram Dass (Dr. Richard Alpert) was on the radio in the 70's commenting on MMY. His conclusion was that what MMY had to offer was of no value because (in Ram Dass's opinion), he seemed to be attached to money. So what, even if this were true (actually, from a Spiritual perspective this would be impossible - a topic covered recently; the outer exhibition is another story reserved for later discussion). But what does this have to do with TM as a technique?. So, in a relative sense nobody's perfect. See the benefits in anything/everything, and discard what's useless. So, you believe that people can get Enlightened without a Guru. OK, name one such person. That's your challenge for today. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bronte: My friend, what should I call you? I can't pronounce your web name -- so, friend: Thanks for this observation, and I agree: learning to play an instrument is often easier with a teacher, but not always. And teachers are not essential, although most gurus will tell you that they are. It's one thing to say I'm a great real estate agent and will help you sell your house if you like versus saying You will never sell your house without my help, you poor miserable schlep. The latter being analogous to most gurus are saying. And I'll continue to gripe about that kind of manipulation. --So which approach is easier, with, or without a teacher? (in generaly, don't talk about isolated exceptions). In advance, let's take care of one exception: HWL Poonja. He states that in his last incarnation (prior to being HWL Poonja...died in the 90's), he was an advanced Krishna-bhakti Yogi. Then as Poonja in the course of his travels as an engineer, he happens to get an urge to visit Ramana Maharshi in his cave. Poonja tells RM about his many visions of Krishna, and RM asks, Are you having a vision right now?. Then after a few more leading questions RM in essence tells Poonja he's already Enlightened. Poonja got it and became Enlightened on the spot. But then, RM was a teacher, wasn't he? In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ ... wrote: ---Sure, one can get Enlightened without a Guru; likewise, one can learn how to play the violin without a teacher. (as Borak would sayNOT !). Bronte: Curious, I know lots of people who've taught themselves musical instruments. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. - Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
Okay, listen, I'm signing off for a while. It's going to take a long time to talk through all the reasons for my position. We'll do it though. It's an important question. Let's revisit it in about a month, after I have some breathing-room time to play in this forum again. Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bronte, you're over generalizing. Of course I get your point about the possible dangers involved with an overcontrolling guru. But you seem to try to apply this to every guru/chela relationship and it just ain't so. MMY is a great example of an over-controlling guru. You cut your teeth on him, like I did, so of course you're head shy about gurus. Just don't say all guru relationships are like this. And by the way, the majority of people who attempt to learn an instrument on their own, don't. They know three chords, two songs, etc. Some people can learn an instrument on their own, but they're alweays listening to music, so the music is their guru. The odds of going from avidya to realization without help from the Absolute in some form or shape is just about nil. --- Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bronte: My friend, what should I call you? I can't pronounce your web name -- so, friend: Thanks for this observation, and I agree: learning to play an instrument is often easier with a teacher, but not always. And teachers are not essential, although most gurus will tell you that they are. It's one thing to say I'm a great real estate agent and will help you sell your house if you like versus saying You will never sell your house without my help, you poor miserable schlep. The latter being analogous to most gurus are saying. And I'll continue to gripe about that kind of manipulation. --So which approach is easier, with, or without a teacher? (in generaly, don't talk about isolated exceptions). In advance, let's take care of one exception: HWL Poonja. He states that in his last incarnation (prior to being HWL Poonja...died in the 90's), he was an advanced Krishna-bhakti Yogi. Then as Poonja in the course of his travels as an engineer, he happens to get an urge to visit Ramana Maharshi in his cave. Poonja tells RM about his many visions of Krishna, and RM asks, Are you having a vision right now?. Then after a few more leading questions RM in essence tells Poonja he's already Enlightened. Poonja got it and became Enlightened on the spot. But then, RM was a teacher, wasn't he? In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ ... wrote: ---Sure, one can get Enlightened without a Guru; likewise, one can learn how to play the violin without a teacher. (as Borak would sayNOT !). Bronte: Curious, I know lots of people who've taught themselves musical instruments. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. __ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/ - Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--And you live where? New Delhi? Please explain why you believe these people are Enlightened. Did they make a claim to this? (which would be OK, if so that could simply be a factual statement; or it could be am empty boast). Do these individuals practice TM? If so, then at least temporarily, they had a Guru!. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gordon Grobelny, Loralin Tomlin, Krista Fisher, Mary Kaminski, Richard Spang ... these are just off the top of my head, people living within 15 miles of me. matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --Let the buyer beware. It's our responsibility, which becomes skilled in the light of additional direct experience: IMO the more Gurus the better. This provides an insurance plan against getting duped by any possible charlatans; but more important, in all likelihood, the vast majority of Gurus (unless ouright phonies); have SOMETHING to offer that might be of value; in which case it's our responsibility to separate the wheat from the chaff. Example: Once Baba Ram Dass (Dr. Richard Alpert) was on the radio in the 70's commenting on MMY. His conclusion was that what MMY had to offer was of no value because (in Ram Dass's opinion), he seemed to be attached to money. So what, even if this were true (actually, from a Spiritual perspective this would be impossible - a topic covered recently; the outer exhibition is another story reserved for later discussion). But what does this have to do with TM as a technique?. So, in a relative sense nobody's perfect. See the benefits in anything/everything, and discard what's useless. So, you believe that people can get Enlightened without a Guru. OK, name one such person. That's your challenge for today. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ wrote: Bronte: My friend, what should I call you? I can't pronounce your web name -- so, friend: Thanks for this observation, and I agree: learning to play an instrument is often easier with a teacher, but not always. And teachers are not essential, although most gurus will tell you that they are. It's one thing to say I'm a great real estate agent and will help you sell your house if you like versus saying You will never sell your house without my help, you poor miserable schlep. The latter being analogous to most gurus are saying. And I'll continue to gripe about that kind of manipulation. --So which approach is easier, with, or without a teacher? (in generaly, don't talk about isolated exceptions). In advance, let's take care of one exception: HWL Poonja. He states that in his last incarnation (prior to being HWL Poonja...died in the 90's), he was an advanced Krishna-bhakti Yogi. Then as Poonja in the course of his travels as an engineer, he happens to get an urge to visit Ramana Maharshi in his cave. Poonja tells RM about his many visions of Krishna, and RM asks, Are you having a vision right now?. Then after a few more leading questions RM in essence tells Poonja he's already Enlightened. Poonja got it and became Enlightened on the spot. But then, RM was a teacher, wasn't he? In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ ... wrote: ---Sure, one can get Enlightened without a Guru; likewise, one can learn how to play the violin without a teacher. (as Borak would sayNOT !). Bronte: Curious, I know lots of people who've taught themselves musical instruments. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. - Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bronte Baxter Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:51 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin) Gordon Grobelny, Loralin Tomlin, Krista Fisher, Mary Kaminski, Richard Spang ... these are just off the top of my head, people living within 15 miles of me. Please elaborate on the nature of their enlightenment. We probably need to make sure we all mean the same thing by the term. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1013 - Release Date: 9/17/2007 1:29 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only guidance needed is one's own inner guidance. It's the nature of the human spirit to wake up. Good point. I think the experience itself teaches you. But people would need some knowledge so that they know what is going on. It is scary at times, even if blissful at the same time OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
Interesting, I never really thought of it as Kundalini until this thread, but when I think about it, I can't imagine anything as powerful and purifying. I'll keep your advice in mind, thanks ! OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This looks like it could be kundalini awakening or attempting to awake - good to have proper guidance, this is not available in TM- it requres working directly with a kundalini master that has traversed the kundlini path from start to realization. In case you have not noticed, I am in the kundalini path but there are also other such masters that are capable to guide. Kundalini especially is active around 3 3o am, if it is an on going thing and not ocasional, then this may be the awakened kundalini- it cant be switched off- it can be the greatest blessing or greatest curse- most likely the former when proper guidance is in place --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ wrote: Off-World, this is absolutely exciting. I've always wanted to talk to someone who was having red-hot, metal-melting kundulini on an almost daily basis. I have so much I want to ask. So here goes, with inserted questions below. (For anyone who missed Off-World's fascinating post, I've also left the original intact at the bottom.) Off-World wrote: snip It is full of bliss, all-power, bright light, emptiness, and fear all at the same time. Very strange. Hmm. I don't feel fear or emptiness when I have the burning, although I don't like it when I want to fall asleep. Can you sleep when this is going on? It is like a half-way sleep, sometimes asleep, often woken up, and often aware of it during sleep. Sometimes softer, sometimes stronger. About the fear and emptiness ... what is it that's empty? What is the fear OF? That you will burn up? I The fear is of anihilation. It seems like anihilation, like something else could take over that is not me, but I have come to the point of facing that very powerful sense, and not fearing the fear so to speak. have considered sometimes that if the burning I feel got much more intense, it WOULD be scary -- I'd be afraid I was going to burn up. Do you think people CAN burn up from kundulini? I don't know. Part of what I am getting is that it could destroy me, but I decided to not be afraid of that. I suppose if a person thinks that they, as an individual, is important, then it defeats the part of the purpose of enlightenment, which is letting go of ego. So the paradox is that the fear is of annihilation, but humans naturally have a strong sense of self preservation, and unless they aceept the possibility of total annihilation of the soul, then they are still atached to their own ego. It is normal to fear annihilation of the soul I think, but I have decided that is a barrier to my evolution, and so I decided to never fear that natural fear anymore. My one weensy soul is not important to the universe, so why not risk it. People who've died of spontaneous combustion -- do you think that's what it was all about? Not sure, could be related, it sometimes actuall feels like that could happen, but I don't think this would happen with most people, if it were a potential. My take on the fear thing is that while it's present with kundulini at times, it is not kundulini itself but rather a person's resistance to it, their doubting of it. By itself, kudulini is power and fire and beautiful. It is the trumpet call that wakes the spirit and calls the body to new life. Maybe that's what the angel's trumpet call symbolizes in the Book of Revelations. Maybe,and I think fear is necessary. You cannot annihilate fear. It is natural to the universe. I heard Maharishi explain once that the infinity is afraid of being annihilated by the point value and visa- versa, so it is inbuilt into the dynamics of existence. The 3 in 1 structure of consciousness (Being) is a direct result of this reverberation as one extreme expands to the other, and back. I did not get, nor accept, Maharishi's answer at that time(to a purusha guy's question about how he was percieving fear within the transcndent or something like that). In fact, I was annoyed by this talk of fear, and ignored it. But now, I can see the importance of it. It is a wonderful thing. So I am starting to think of fear as an energy, it is just that humans and other animals use that energy as a tool of practical life, such that it becomes ingrained as something negative. But we need to pull back and see the big picture. It is an energy, and I think that yogis learn to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
Keep us in touch how it goes with your experience. I am glad mine made some sense to you. Things are happening in world consciousness, and I think we will see massive changes in our lifetimes. Remember to wear your seatbelt ! OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: About the fear and emptiness ... what is it that's empty? What is the fear OF? That you will burn up? I The fear is of anihilation. It seems like anihilation, like something else could take over that is not me, but I have come to the point of facing that very powerful sense, and not fearing the fear so to speak. I think I have the same fear only I experience it differently. I don't fear that I as a person could be annihilated but that my body could be. And I fear that the fire I have to walk through is too strange, that I'll be completely scrambled and come out completely different on the other side. Sort of like how I suppose I'd feel if someone were going to beam me up for the first time in a Star Trek scenario. I don't know. Part of what I am getting is that it could destroy me, but I decided to not be afraid of that. I suppose if a person thinks that they, as an individual, is important, then it defeats the part of the purpose of enlightenment, which is letting go of ego. So the paradox is that the fear is of annihilation, but humans naturally have a strong sense of self preservation, and unless they aceept the possibility of total annihilation of the soul, then they are still atached to their own ego. It is normal to fear annihilation of the soul I think, but I have decided that is a barrier to my evolution, and so I decided to never fear that natural fear anymore. My one weensy soul is not important to the universe, so why not risk it. I think you're very courageous for moving through the fear. But I don't think it's at all true that your precious soul is not important to the universe. That's like saying the branch is not important to the tree. The tree needs the branch, it's a part of itself. Even when the branch realizes it is tree, it will always still be branch, and important as such. It just will have a much broader vision. Maybe,and I think fear is necessary. You cannot annihilate fear. It is natural to the universe. I heard Maharishi explain once that the infinity is afraid of being annihilated by the point value and visa- versa, so it is inbuilt into the dynamics of existence. The 3 in 1 structure of consciousness (Being) is a direct result of this reverberation as one extreme expands to the other, and back. I did not get, nor accept, Maharishi's answer at that time(to a purusha guy's question about how he was percieving fear within the transcndent or something like that). In fact, I was annoyed by this talk of fear, and ignored it. But now, I can see the importance of it. It is a wonderful thing. So I am starting to think of fear as an energy, it is just that humans and other animals use that energy as a tool of practical life, such that it becomes ingrained as something negative. But we need to pull back and see the big picture. It is an energy, and I think that yogis learn to transform (not annihilate, or ignore) that energy into power. I like that last part -- that fear is just an energy and that yogis learn to transform it into power. I think you're onto something here. I don't agree that fear is intrinsic to life though or anything like that. To me, fear is the gap, the g in Agni (if you remember MMY's teaching on that). It's the place Consciousness fell into when it manifested into diversity. First there was just wholeness, then it went to express. As it started to split into myriad forms, it got scared, feeling separate and alone and unsure. It felt detached from its Source. So all creation developed with fear at its very core, at its very heart. When we go backwards, reclimbing the stair, we experience the fear in our core again -- very consciously -- right before we reattain the wholeness. In making the fear conscious and moving forward anyway, we dissolve it and are freed. That's my intuitive feeling about it anyway. I cannot be sure it should be called kundalini. It is very powerful and extreme and hits the brain like a bolt of electricity, but bright and purifying. Well, I'm convinced it's kundulini. What else could it be? I let it do its thing. I have always felt it was a good thing (though sometimes I was scared of the annihilation sense), and it ALWAYS ends in a sweet bathing of bliss for and hour or more. You inspire me with your courage and your trust in the goodness and naturalness of the experience. What you've said will help me to do the same. Not that I have it all the time like you do, but when it's there, I will be more willing.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
We do. I know the movement definition, and they fit it, with lots of individuality besides. Real dynamic people, with the silence of Self as background all the time. I'm not going to get into dissecting their inner workings, folks. These are mostly friends of mine. Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bronte Baxter Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:51 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin) Gordon Grobelny, Loralin Tomlin, Krista Fisher, Mary Kaminski, Richard Spang ... these are just off the top of my head, people living within 15 miles of me. Please elaborate on the nature of their enlightenment. We probably need to make sure we all mean the same thing by the term. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1013 - Release Date: 9/17/2007 1:29 PM - Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
Well Bronte, The honesty of this situation is I have presented my beliefs. Your beliefs are otherwise. That's fine- so this is how it stands. [Bronte: The only guidance needed is one's own inner guidance. It's the nature of the human spirit to wake up.] Ron: My comments, coming from my path will mirror that of Ramana Maharishi's admonisions. Bronte: I disagree with almost everything of the philosophy of the Neo- Advaitins, RM's very much included. Ron: Regarding a mentor or Guru, it is 100% that one will need this for unfolding enlightenment. Bronte: This is a typical guru mind-enslavement statement: You can't do it without me. It spiritually disempowering of seekers and self- aggrandizing of gurus, designed to suck in clients. It's like a real estate agent telling you can't possibly sell our house successfully without an agent to guide you. Imagine what would happen to business if people realized they could do it by themselves? Ron: Some very rare one's will do it on their own. It is ego which declares a Guru is not needed, or even I am that rare one - after all, Ramana did it this way and so can I. Bronte: Good sales line: it's your ego. That one really snags the spiritual consumer. Get 'em with their guilt. Way to go, Ramana Maharishi! Ron: Why? because one in darkness needs light- and the light is just not there. If it were, then one wouldn't be in darkness.The Guru is the one that has traversed the journey from start to Realization, having gone through it, they are the light to show others. Bronte: What do you mean, the light is just not there? What is a human being's nature, darkness or light? Don't you believe that everything is God's light? Then how can you think one can't become aware of that light within themselves by the power of that light within themselves? To wake up to one's nature is as natural as waking up in the morning. Saying you can't do it by yourself is like saying you'd never wake up in the morning if you didn't have your mother to call you. Ron: In my path, it is not that they desire to be guru or step forward to do so, they are commissioned by their own Guru's to do so. Bronte: That may well be. It's those who've bought the sales pitch who are best equipped to perpetuate it. - Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
Off-World: Keep us in touch how it goes with your experience. I am glad mine made some sense to you. Things are happening in world consciousness, and I think we will see massive changes in our lifetimes. Remember to wear your seatbelt ! Bronte: My boyfriend always reminds me. ._,___ - Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
Righto, brother, and no hard feelings in the bargain. Honest sharing of thoughts is good, however it turns out. I look forward to chatting more with you in the future. - Bronte Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well Bronte, The honesty of this situation is I have presented my beliefs. Your beliefs are otherwise. That's fine- so this is how it stands. [Bronte: The only guidance needed is one's own inner guidance. It's the nature of the human spirit to wake up.] Ron: My comments, coming from my path will mirror that of Ramana Maharishi's admonisions. Bronte: I disagree with almost everything of the philosophy of the Neo- Advaitins, RM's very much included. Ron: Regarding a mentor or Guru, it is 100% that one will need this for unfolding enlightenment. Bronte: This is a typical guru mind-enslavement statement: You can't do it without me. It spiritually disempowering of seekers and self- aggrandizing of gurus, designed to suck in clients. It's like a real estate agent telling you can't possibly sell our house successfully without an agent to guide you. Imagine what would happen to business if people realized they could do it by themselves? Ron: Some very rare one's will do it on their own. It is ego which declares a Guru is not needed, or even I am that rare one - after all, Ramana did it this way and so can I. Bronte: Good sales line: it's your ego. That one really snags the spiritual consumer. Get 'em with their guilt. Way to go, Ramana Maharishi! Ron: Why? because one in darkness needs light- and the light is just not there. If it were, then one wouldn't be in darkness.The Guru is the one that has traversed the journey from start to Realization, having gone through it, they are the light to show others. Bronte: What do you mean, the light is just not there? What is a human being's nature, darkness or light? Don't you believe that everything is God's light? Then how can you think one can't become aware of that light within themselves by the power of that light within themselves? To wake up to one's nature is as natural as waking up in the morning. Saying you can't do it by yourself is like saying you'd never wake up in the morning if you didn't have your mother to call you. Ron: In my path, it is not that they desire to be guru or step forward to do so, they are commissioned by their own Guru's to do so. Bronte: That may well be. It's those who've bought the sales pitch who are best equipped to perpetuate it. - Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. - Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bronte, you're over generalizing. Of course I get your point about the possible dangers involved with an overcontrolling guru. But you seem to try to apply this to every guru/chela relationship and it just ain't so. MMY is a great example of an over-controlling guru. You cut your teeth on him, like I did, so of course you're head shy about gurus. Just don't say all guru relationships are like this. And by the way, the majority of people who attempt to learn an instrument on their own, don't. They know three chords, two songs, etc. Some people can learn an instrument on their own, but they're alweays listening to music, so the music is their guru. The odds of going from avidya to realization without help from the Absolute in some form or shape is just about nil. Agreed. I think that doing an effective meditation technique like TM (just my personal example-- not an ad), reading a guru's words, like Maharishi's (just my personal example-- not an ad), praying to saints like Guru Dev (just my personal example-- not an ad), can all mean following a guru by tuning the heart and intellect to that of the supremely enlightened, and by so doing, the process of Self Realization goes very quickly. However, there is never a need to become a guru's compromised follower. Doesn't mean losing our will or common sense. There is definitely a way to make it work for us, keeping it in perspective.:- )
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off-World, this is absolutely exciting. I've always wanted to talk to someone who was having red-hot, metal-melting kundulini on an almost daily basis. I have so much I want to ask. So here goes, with inserted questions below. (For anyone who missed Off-World's fascinating post, I've also left the original intact at the bottom.) Off-World wrote: snip It is full of bliss, all-power, bright light, emptiness, and fear all at the same time. Very strange. Hmm. I don't feel fear or emptiness when I have the burning, although I don't like it when I want to fall asleep. Can you sleep when this is going on? It is like a half-way sleep, sometimes asleep, often woken up, and often aware of it during sleep. Sometimes softer, sometimes stronger. About the fear and emptiness ... what is it that's empty? What is the fear OF? That you will burn up? I The fear is of anihilation. It seems like anihilation, like something else could take over that is not me, but I have come to the point of facing that very powerful sense, and not fearing the fear so to speak. have considered sometimes that if the burning I feel got much more intense, it WOULD be scary -- I'd be afraid I was going to burn up. Do you think people CAN burn up from kundulini? I don't know. Part of what I am getting is that it could destroy me, but I decided to not be afraid of that. I suppose if a person thinks that they, as an individual, is important, then it defeats the part of the purpose of enlightenment, which is letting go of ego. So the paradox is that the fear is of annihilation, but humans naturally have a strong sense of self preservation, and unless they aceept the possibility of total annihilation of the soul, then they are still atached to their own ego. It is normal to fear annihilation of the soul I think, but I have decided that is a barrier to my evolution, and so I decided to never fear that natural fear anymore. My one weensy soul is not important to the universe, so why not risk it. People who've died of spontaneous combustion -- do you think that's what it was all about? Not sure, could be related, it sometimes actuall feels like that could happen, but I don't think this would happen with most people, if it were a potential. My take on the fear thing is that while it's present with kundulini at times, it is not kundulini itself but rather a person's resistance to it, their doubting of it. By itself, kudulini is power and fire and beautiful. It is the trumpet call that wakes the spirit and calls the body to new life. Maybe that's what the angel's trumpet call symbolizes in the Book of Revelations. Maybe,and I think fear is necessary. You cannot annihilate fear. It is natural to the universe. I heard Maharishi explain once that the infinity is afraid of being annihilated by the point value and visa- versa, so it is inbuilt into the dynamics of existence. The 3 in 1 structure of consciousness (Being) is a direct result of this reverberation as one extreme expands to the other, and back. I did not get, nor accept, Maharishi's answer at that time(to a purusha guy's question about how he was percieving fear within the transcndent or something like that). In fact, I was annoyed by this talk of fear, and ignored it. But now, I can see the importance of it. It is a wonderful thing. So I am starting to think of fear as an energy, it is just that humans and other animals use that energy as a tool of practical life, such that it becomes ingrained as something negative. But we need to pull back and see the big picture. It is an energy, and I think that yogis learn to transform (not annihilate, or ignore) that energy into power. Just a thought. Could be wrong though. The purification is like a hot metal rod burning, but it is not damaging or painful, only healing. Oftentimes (3 or 4 times a week), it fills most of my sleeping night with fire and bliss and neuronal purification, and I am often surprised how the world has not transformed the next day. That is so beautiful. You're my new kundulini guru, Off-World. (Guru in the good sense.) Thanks! I'm no guru, and I cannot be sure it should be called kundalini. It is very powerful and extreme and hits the brain like a bolt of electricity, but bright and purifying. Do you do anything to manage the energy, or do you just let it do its thing? I let it do its thing. I have always felt it was a good thing (though sometimes I was scared of the annihilation sense), and it ALWAYS ends in a sweet bathing of bliss for and hour or more. Do you think kundulini can get stuck in a blocked chakra or other body area? Yes, (if it is kundalini ) but what I get is always purifying, so sometimes I feel it in different areas, but I cannot relate it to chakras as such, but wherever it takes my
[FairfieldLife] Re: Off-World's Kundulini Experience (Was Dear Bevan and Dr. Hagelin)
This looks like it could be kundalini awakening or attempting to awake - good to have proper guidance, this is not available in TM- it requres working directly with a kundalini master that has traversed the kundlini path from start to realization. In case you have not noticed, I am in the kundalini path but there are also other such masters that are capable to guide. Kundalini especially is active around 3 3o am, if it is an on going thing and not ocasional, then this may be the awakened kundalini- it cant be switched off- it can be the greatest blessing or greatest curse- most likely the former when proper guidance is in place --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ wrote: Off-World, this is absolutely exciting. I've always wanted to talk to someone who was having red-hot, metal-melting kundulini on an almost daily basis. I have so much I want to ask. So here goes, with inserted questions below. (For anyone who missed Off-World's fascinating post, I've also left the original intact at the bottom.) Off-World wrote: snip It is full of bliss, all-power, bright light, emptiness, and fear all at the same time. Very strange. Hmm. I don't feel fear or emptiness when I have the burning, although I don't like it when I want to fall asleep. Can you sleep when this is going on? It is like a half-way sleep, sometimes asleep, often woken up, and often aware of it during sleep. Sometimes softer, sometimes stronger. About the fear and emptiness ... what is it that's empty? What is the fear OF? That you will burn up? I The fear is of anihilation. It seems like anihilation, like something else could take over that is not me, but I have come to the point of facing that very powerful sense, and not fearing the fear so to speak. have considered sometimes that if the burning I feel got much more intense, it WOULD be scary -- I'd be afraid I was going to burn up. Do you think people CAN burn up from kundulini? I don't know. Part of what I am getting is that it could destroy me, but I decided to not be afraid of that. I suppose if a person thinks that they, as an individual, is important, then it defeats the part of the purpose of enlightenment, which is letting go of ego. So the paradox is that the fear is of annihilation, but humans naturally have a strong sense of self preservation, and unless they aceept the possibility of total annihilation of the soul, then they are still atached to their own ego. It is normal to fear annihilation of the soul I think, but I have decided that is a barrier to my evolution, and so I decided to never fear that natural fear anymore. My one weensy soul is not important to the universe, so why not risk it. People who've died of spontaneous combustion -- do you think that's what it was all about? Not sure, could be related, it sometimes actuall feels like that could happen, but I don't think this would happen with most people, if it were a potential. My take on the fear thing is that while it's present with kundulini at times, it is not kundulini itself but rather a person's resistance to it, their doubting of it. By itself, kudulini is power and fire and beautiful. It is the trumpet call that wakes the spirit and calls the body to new life. Maybe that's what the angel's trumpet call symbolizes in the Book of Revelations. Maybe,and I think fear is necessary. You cannot annihilate fear. It is natural to the universe. I heard Maharishi explain once that the infinity is afraid of being annihilated by the point value and visa- versa, so it is inbuilt into the dynamics of existence. The 3 in 1 structure of consciousness (Being) is a direct result of this reverberation as one extreme expands to the other, and back. I did not get, nor accept, Maharishi's answer at that time(to a purusha guy's question about how he was percieving fear within the transcndent or something like that). In fact, I was annoyed by this talk of fear, and ignored it. But now, I can see the importance of it. It is a wonderful thing. So I am starting to think of fear as an energy, it is just that humans and other animals use that energy as a tool of practical life, such that it becomes ingrained as something negative. But we need to pull back and see the big picture. It is an energy, and I think that yogis learn to transform (not annihilate, or ignore) that energy into power. Just a thought. Could be wrong though. The purification is like a hot metal rod burning, but it is not damaging or painful, only healing. Oftentimes (3 or 4 times a week), it fills most of my sleeping night with fire and bliss and neuronal purification, and I am often surprised how the world has not transformed the
