[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving - Hangers On
As MMY has said - We are only able to love ourselves - not others. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Drammm on Of course he loves you and all the hardworking, honest people who have contributed to his movement. It's difficult to see that now, with the peculiar situation in the movement, but it will be shown at some point of life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving - Hangers On
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As MMY has said - We are only able to love ourselves - not others. Ingegerd *** This could be a little misleading to those not familiar with what MMY said, which was all love is directed toward the self, meaning the cosmic self is the only possible target of love because it is all that exists, in a variety of forms. It does not mean that we cannot love others, but that there really are no others for one whose awareness is expanded: the world is my family -- there is no otherness. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving ????
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram is a fire mantra? Rick, Ram, with short 'a' is indeed a fire-mantra and is in the center of the Manipura chakra, which is not the second as Vaj says, but the third chakra. See it here:http://www.sics.se/~piak/yoga/yantra/c hakra/gif/Manipura.gif The Raam used as a mantra most probably in the beginning of the movement, and highly eulogized by the scriptures, such as the Ramayana and the Ramacharitmanas has a long 'A', and is seen as universally beneficial. The Hindu scriptures equate it with God, some even say that the mantra is higher than God himself. See the difference here: http://www.devyani.com/mt/gra/ram1.gif Raajaaraam, look at the last three letters and see the difference. So Vaj is confusing these two mantras. Also the named scriptures , and almost all Hindu scriptures eulogize mantra japa, and don't see it as a beginners technique. Many of the greatest Hindu saints advocate nothing but Japa, that can carry you all the way through.You may also remember that Guru Dev was born in Ayodhya, the bithplace of Raama, and would be naturally familiar with the Ramayana and the Ramacharitmanas. I am not aware of any Hindu scripture calling it a preparatory technique. I think Vaj is confusing here Hindu teachings with Buddhist teachings. In Buddhist teachings such techniques as Mahamudra (or Dzochen or Maha-Ati respectively) are regarded as highest meditation techniques. The principles of these techniques are very similar to TM, in that they don't allow for effort or any attempt to modify ones consciousness. Consciousness is always perfect and aware of itself, and it should not be attempted to be altered according to Dzogchen. Dzogchen does not rely on props like a mantra, but relies on the energy transmission of the 'true view' by a Dzogchen master. Tibetan Buddhism has absorped many Hindu teachings and has attemped to classify them within their own system, like Guru Yoga etc. and have put them within the framework of their own theory. But the original Hindu systems from which this has developed does not make such a classification. The only classification which is made is in traditional Advaita Vedanta, which distinguishes between a higher and a Lower Knowledge, but regards only Jnana Yoga, or intellectual discrimination between Self and non-self as Higher, and all other forms of meditation, such as mantra japa, rituals, or raja yoga as purificions and therefore preparatory. In any case the whole Yoga Sutra would be preparatory only from the Advaita perspective. I think the problem with Vaj is that he mixes too many traditions and makes his own theory out of it. He also confuses the description of Samadhi states in the Yogasutras, such as Bijasamadhi with techniques to acquire it. Its nonsense to say that Bijamantras lead to Bijasamadhi. It's nowhere said in any scripture. on 5/20/05 8:50 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah--fire mantra. Give it to someone with anger or a screwed up mars and they'll have anything other than peace of mind--although they'll GIVE you a piece of their mind... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving ????
on 5/22/05 9:03 AM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. Knowledgeable posts like this enrich FFL tremendously. You may also remember that Guru Dev was born in Ayodhya, the bithplace of Raama, and would be naturally familiar with the Ramayana and the Ramacharitmanas. I heard that the Ramacharitmanas was his favorite book. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving ????
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/22/05 9:03 AM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. Knowledgeable posts like this enrich FFL tremendously. You may also remember that Guru Dev was born in Ayodhya, the bithplace of Raama, and would be naturally familiar with the Ramayana and the Ramacharitmanas. I heard that the Ramacharitmanas was his favorite book. ** http://www.srigurudev.net/srigurudev/gurudev/biography.html Guru Dev was said to have attended Sanksrit school at age 8, so he would have been familiar with the Ramayana because of his education, but don't all Hindus have a pretty good familiarity with the story of Rama and Sita? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving ????
On May 22, 2005, at 7:57 PM, bbrigante wrote: Guru Dev was said to have attended Sanksrit school at age 8, so he would have been familiar with the Ramayana because of his education, but don't all Hindus have a pretty good familiarity with the story of Rama and Sita? Yeah, but that doesn't mean M. gave out the mantra 'Jai Ram, Jai Jai Ram...' as a mantra... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving ????
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram is a fire mantra? I use it to light cigarettes for women in Paris cafes. Gets me laid a lot. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving ????
It's hard to say for certain without either a Sanskrit picture of the mantra or a good HK transliteration. I know Swami Rama's tradition would give the fire mantra to students, often with interesting results--if you had a lot of undigested anger/firey emotions, it would stir that up and then the student would have to be stabilized with another mantra. On May 20, 2005, at 11:56 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Ram is a fire mantra? on 5/20/05 8:50 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah--fire mantra. Give it to someone with anger or a screwed up mars and they'll have anything other than peace of mind--although they'll GIVE you a piece of their mind... On May 20, 2005, at 6:43 PM, Llundrub wrote: http://minet.org/mantras.html - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving Was it Raam or Ram? On May 20, 2005, at 5:48 PM, johnlasher20002000 wrote: Why did he stop using Raam and switch to the bijas. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links -- Rick Archer SearchSummit 1108 South B Street Fairfield, IA 52556 Phone: 641-472-9336 Fax: 815-472-5842 http://searchsummit.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving - Hangers On
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: measure. snip Maharishi often made it clear that he didn't like the hangers-on. Trouble was, he needed someone to help; hard-working as he was, he simply couldn't do it all. So the hangers-on eventually morphed into his rather loony organization which tries to shape things in its own warped image of how things should be. It must be very sad for Maharishi to have such vision and to have to depend upon such blindness. But it was the hangers-on in the 60s and 70s who gave MMY the practical help he needed to start and spread the mov't. Not just the practical common sense information needed to start an operation, but eventually also the 7 steps method of teaching, the scientific research, the competent local operation of so many centers in the 70s which brought so many people and resources into the mov't. I'm amazed at the extent and quality of support MMY had, esp in the 70s. It was MMY who personally took the mov't into hard sell of supernormal abilities, the innumerable failed businesses - sidhalands, drilling for oil in texas, fashion dresses, crumbling hotels galore, etc etc and then the hard sell of the various branches of vedas, which once again went well as long as Chopra was around, but is going nowhere as long as MMY's hand picked fanatics are in charge, and now everything under the sun in India, including used cars and fake currency. I agree with many other posts on this topic that MMY hit the jackpot with effortless meditation using bij mantras, but most everything else of value in the mov't over the years seems to me to have come from the enormous support and talent he received from the west, and most of the nuttiness and cultishness from him and his hand picked and cultivated inner circle. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving - Hangers On
A lot of intelligent, well-educated Meditators inkl. TM-Teachers build up the Movement in the West in the 60th and 70ths successfully, for free, using a lot of spare-time and money. I know what they did, because I was there. It is very sad if MMY do not appreciate what they did. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: measure. snip Maharishi often made it clear that he didn't like the hangers-on. Trouble was, he needed someone to help; hard-working as he was, he simply couldn't do it all. So the hangers-on eventually morphed into his rather loony organization which tries to shape things in its own warped image of how things should be. It must be very sad for Maharishi to have such vision and to have to depend upon such blindness. But it was the hangers-on in the 60s and 70s who gave MMY the practical help he needed to start and spread the mov't. Not just the practical common sense information needed to start an operation, but eventually also the 7 steps method of teaching, the scientific research, the competent local operation of so many centers in the 70s which brought so many people and resources into the mov't. I'm amazed at the extent and quality of support MMY had, esp in the 70s. It was MMY who personally took the mov't into hard sell of supernormal abilities, the innumerable failed businesses - sidhalands, drilling for oil in texas, fashion dresses, crumbling hotels galore, etc etc and then the hard sell of the various branches of vedas, which once again went well as long as Chopra was around, but is going nowhere as long as MMY's hand picked fanatics are in charge, and now everything under the sun in India, including used cars and fake currency. I agree with many other posts on this topic that MMY hit the jackpot with effortless meditation using bij mantras, but most everything else of value in the mov't over the years seems to me to have come from the enormous support and talent he received from the west, and most of the nuttiness and cultishness from him and his hand picked and cultivated inner circle. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving - Hangers On
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A lot of intelligent, well-educated Meditators inkl. TM-Teachers build up the Movement in the West in the 60th and 70ths successfully, for free, using a lot of spare-time and money. I know what they did, because I was there. It is very sad if MMY do not appreciate what they did. Ingegerd Maybe it's time to move on, every day is a new day. It's nice that people worked hard at some point in there life to try and build something but at some point you just have to forget yesterday and resume living at the now mark. The real point in life is to cultivate awareness of the source of life not build up an impressive history that will look good on your obituary. It's all pretty meaningless really, your only as good as you are at any given moment. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving - Hangers On
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A lot of intelligent, well-educated Meditators inkl. TM-Teachers build up the Movement in the West in the 60th and 70ths successfully, for free, using a lot of spare-time and money. I know what they did, because I was there. It is very sad if MMY do not appreciate what they did. Ingegerd Of course he loves you and all the hardworking, honest people who have contributed to his movement. It's difficult to se that now, with the peculiar situation in the movement, but it will be shown at some point of life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, but this attitude you have really bugs the bejesus out of me. Go figure. -Peter pissy pants Those things that really bug us are usually (always ?) born of samsaras, things yet to be resolved. But samsara is the cause of bondage. Yet you believe you are beyond bondage. I know the story that all these personality traits and quirks are just lesha-vidya. Could it be you are confusing lesha-vidya for deep rooted, yet to be resolved samsara? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
--- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, but this attitude you have really bugs the bejesus out of me. Go figure. -Peter pissy pants Those things that really bug us are usually (always ?) born of samsaras, things yet to be resolved. But samsara is the cause of bondage. Yet you believe you are beyond bondage. I know the story that all these personality traits and quirks are just lesha-vidya. Could it be you are confusing lesha-vidya for deep rooted, yet to be resolved samsara? I don't know. ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, but this attitude you have really bugs the bejesus out of me. Go figure. -Peter pissy pants Those things that really bug us are usually (always ?) born of samsaras, things yet to be resolved. But samsara is the cause of bondage. Yet you believe you are beyond bondage. I know the story that all these personality traits and quirks are just lesha-vidya. Could it be you are confusing lesha-vidya for deep rooted, yet to be resolved samsara? I don't know. ;-) hmm lets see. Ritam not functioning well. Outburts of personal distaste. Unclear on samsara and lesha vidya. Put him in the unclear experience hotel. Next. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving - Hangers On
Drammm on Of course he loves you and all the hardworking, honest people who have contributed to his movement. It's difficult to see that now, with the peculiar situation in the movement, but it will be shown at some point of life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
The mantras we use are not bija mantras. - Original Message - From: Rick Archer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving on 5/20/05 10:46 AM, gerbal88 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He started out with a single `way' of using one mantra, ram /raam/.I've heard this before (from you?). Was this the mantra being given when youwere around? When did it change to the bija mantras now used? (And beingused in 1968 when I learned.) Which were your 10 years? Where? UK?To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... discovered that the basic TM practice as we know it is incomplete and really more of a first level kind of introductory practice. And that the whole knowledge package presented by MMY is kind of cobbled together from assorted sources and presented as the whole picture while in reality it is just neo-vedic mumbo jumbo with the main purpose of just placating psuedo seekers with a promise of effortless spiritual growth. I am not sure who wrote the above. The above was not written by Llundrub as your post seems to indicate. It was written by me but is not what I believe, rather it is an attempt to summarize what I thought someone else was saying. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
Me old friend, professor Anoop Chandola of the University of Arizona,once commented that Maharishi is the greatest spiritual leader of India of the latter half of the 20th Century, following in the footsteps of his guru, who was the latest spiritual leader of the first half. He also commented that it is obvious that Maharishi is speaking from personal experience on all these matters. He ALSO commented that Maharishi had grown way beyond the boundries of a mere Shankaracharya, and that the world should be greatful that he his teachings were available worldwide, rather than holed up in some monastary in the Himalayas. You should google Annop Chandola's academic credentials before you get all hysterically laughing about his comments. He was speaking professionally on the subject. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the effort thing is really a non issue, what difference does it make to acknowledge that some effort is involved in the practice, compared to thinking type meditations it is virtually effortless. To me the real gist of what Vaj seems to be saying in most of his posts regarding the TM practice is that upon studying in depth the knowledge that TM is thought to have arisen from, he has discovered that the basic TM practice as we know it is incomplete and really more of a first level kind of introductory practice. And that the whole knowledge package presented by MMY is kind of cobbled together from assorted sources and presented as the whole picture while in reality it is just neo-vedic mumbo jumbo with the main purpose of just placating psuedo seekers with a promise of effortless spiritual growth. --Vaj is compassionately just trying to educate you peeps. You see, most of you have been practicing in caves even though it didn't seem like it. Many of you are like WASPS who have never seen a black person and consequently think that they're space aliens. With time you might come to respect that he's showing that a larger world exists. If his efforts free your minds from any ignorance, blindness or superstition then he's doing the job, in part, of liberating your mindstreams from ignorance. That's a great gift. Happy Birthday. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving ????
Why did he stop using Raam and switch to the bijas. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... discovered that the basic TM practice as we know it is incomplete and really more of a first level kind of introductory practice. And that the whole knowledge package presented by MMY is kind of cobbled together from assorted sources and presented as the whole picture while in reality it is just neo-vedic mumbo jumbo with the main purpose of just placating psuedo seekers with a promise of effortless spiritual growth. I am not sure who wrote the above. I tend, however, to agree to some extent. Maharishi made it up as he went along, trying to understand the West and marketing his wisdom by trying to make it increasingly `just what the Americans wanted'. He started out with a single `way' of using one mantra, ram /raam/. That `way' of using the mantra was, actually, all he ever had and is still the whole thing, the only thing. But, it's brilliant; especially when you decide you've had enough of what Maharishi is offering (and the craziness his organization seems to demand). Moving on to explore other offerings in the spiritual market, one finds that Maharishi's `way' of returning to the base or foundation of whatever new practise you are exploring is ideal for discovering just what you are working with. I give Maharishi a lot of credit. Maybe he started out in England sitting on a dirty deerskin (someone told me that his deerskin was Guru Dev's ... probably apocryphal, but a nice thought) and was overwhelmed by success. In the 10 years I knew him, he could be quite the naïveté about things ordinary to Westerners we, on the other hand, were just as naive about the things he was full of (no surprise there!). But, as Rick says he learned, absolutely YES: Maharishi equated $ with success, material as well as spiritual ... because the material can only come from the spiritual (and this is precisely how his reasoning on the matter goes). Hence, he tells us how advanced he is by printing his own money! Does this make him a bad person, a charlatan, a corrupter of youth, a fraud, etc.? That can only depend on where you are coming from. That single gift of his way of returning to the base or foundation of meditation is beyond measure. Maharishi often made it clear that he didn't like the hangers-on. Trouble was, he needed someone to help; hard-working as he was, he simply couldn't do it all. So the hangers-on eventually morphed into his rather loony organization which tries to shape things in its own warped image of how things should be. It must be very sad for Maharishi to have such vision and to have to depend upon such blindness. What might have been? Who knows. What is? Well, what is is what is and what you make of it. Despite having been party to many of Maharishi's fits of pique and downright meanness on occasion, I am still quite fond of him. Would I want to be part of his inner circle? NO, NO, NO, NO. NO. My thoughts on the matter: take what he has given, an almost magical `way' and go about enjoying your life. G To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving ????
Was it Raam or Ram? On May 20, 2005, at 5:48 PM, johnlasher20002000 wrote: Why did he stop using Raam and switch to the bijas. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
The physicist Richard Feynman saidwhenever I meet someone who says he understands Quantum Mechanics..I'm sure he doesn't.I think the same can be said of the Truth.People who claim to have found the truth are invariably deluded.Kevin - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Concealing of the truth is not what most people want when they expect spirituality. Indeed. What most people want when they sign on to a spiritual path is to be told that they now KNOW the truth. Few are ever disappointed. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving ????
Yeah--fire mantra. Give it to someone with anger or a screwed up mars and they'll have anything other than peace of mind--although they'll GIVE you a piece of their mind... On May 20, 2005, at 6:43 PM, Llundrub wrote: http://minet.org/mantras.html - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving Was it Raam or Ram? On May 20, 2005, at 5:48 PM, johnlasher20002000 wrote: Why did he stop using Raam and switch to the bijas. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
TM is like diving; jump and the rest is taken care of. It's laws of nature operating. Like gravity the result is inevitable; you fall into transcendence. More interestingly I find that these simple principles are being challenged here on FFL by Vaj and others. It is like they say; no, gravity does not excist ! With motifs I do not want to speculate. But they seem to be operating fulltime. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
--- lupidus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TM is like diving; jump and the rest is taken care of. It's laws of nature operating. Like gravity the result is inevitable; you fall into transcendence. More interestingly I find that these simple principles are being challenged here on FFL by Vaj and others. It is like they say; no, gravity does not excist ! With motifs I do not want to speculate. But they seem to be operating fulltime. Lups, you do this all the time. When someone doesn't agree with your beliefs or understanding you question their motives or refer to them as a young soul. Doesn't that strike you as rather arrogant? Vaj and others are just pointing out that there is a very, very subtle intent (i.e., effort) in TM. That's all. They are discriminating within the experience of TM. You seem to be a fundamentalist who is more concerned with the purity of your dogma than authentic experiencing and the growth of understanding and insight. As if you already have all the answers. Sorry, but this attitude you have really bugs the bejesus out of me. Go figure. -Peter pissy pants To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
And the 1000 eyed demon that he sends to me is probably my best friend too! I want him to be open-minded and considerate. Why? What's my problem? --- Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lups is gonna freak out when the huge 1000 eyed demon comes not realizing that it's his best friend. - Original Message - From: Peter Sutphen To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving --- lupidus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TM is like diving; jump and the rest is taken care of. It's laws of nature operating. Like gravity the result is inevitable; you fall into transcendence. More interestingly I find that these simple principles are being challenged here on FFL by Vaj and others. It is like they say; no, gravity does not excist ! With motifs I do not want to speculate. But they seem to be operating fulltime. Lups, you do this all the time. When someone doesn't agree with your beliefs or understanding you question their motives or refer to them as a young soul. Doesn't that strike you as rather arrogant? Vaj and others are just pointing out that there is a very, very subtle intent (i.e., effort) in TM. That's all. They are discriminating within the experience of TM. You seem to be a fundamentalist who is more concerned with the purity of your dogma than authentic experiencing and the growth of understanding and insight. As if you already have all the answers. Sorry, but this attitude you have really bugs the bejesus out of me. Go figure. -Peter pissy pants To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- lupidus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TM is like diving; jump and the rest is taken care of. It's laws of nature operating. Like gravity the result is inevitable; you fall into transcendence. More interestingly I find that these simple principles are being challenged here on FFL by Vaj and others. It is like they say; no, gravity does not excist ! With motifs I do not want to speculate. But they seem to be operating fulltime. Lups, you do this all the time. When someone doesn't agree with your beliefs or understanding you question their motives or refer to them as a young soul. Doesn't that strike you as rather arrogant? Not at all, just an observation. Vaj and others are just pointing out that there is a very, very subtle intent (i.e., effort) in TM. That's all. I disagree. Vaj is trying to blow intent out of proportion, making it an effort, thus trying to create confusion in the minds of innoscent people. For which I presume he is well paid. I might be wrong, but probably not. . -Peter pissy pants Or Peter who thinks Ravi Shankar is Guru Dev incarnate. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
I was just joking. But I'm sure the 1000 eyed demon friend is somewhere in incarnation somewhere. It would suck to think one was going to Maitreya's house and have the 1000 eyed demon open the door. Well, it would only suck if one didn't recognize the 100 eyed demon as - Original Message - From: Peter Sutphen To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving And the 1000 eyed demon that he sends to me isprobably my best friend too! I want him to beopen-minded and considerate. Why? What's my problem? --- Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lups is gonna freak out when the huge 1000 eyed demon comes not realizing that it's his best friend. - Original Message - From: Peter Sutphen To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving--- lupidus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TM is like diving; jump and the rest is taken care of. It's laws of nature operating. Like gravity the result is inevitable; you fall into transcendence. More interestingly I find that these simple principles are being challenged here on FFL by Vaj and others. It is like they say; no, gravity does not excist !With motifs I do not want to speculate. But they seem to be operating fulltime. Lups, you do this all the time. When someone doesn't agree with your beliefs or understanding you question their motives or refer to them as a young soul. Doesn't that strike you as rather arrogant? Vaj and others are just pointing out that there is a very, very subtle intent (i.e., effort) in TM. That's all. They are discriminating within the experience of TM. You seem to be a fundamentalist who is more concerned with the purity of your dogma than authentic experiencing and the growth of understanding and insight. As if you already have all the answers. Sorry, but this attitude you have really bugs the bejesus out of me. Go figure. -Peter pissy pants To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.htmlTo subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
On May 19, 2005, at 3:32 PM, lupidus108 wrote: More interestingly I find that these simple principles are being challenged here on FFL by Vaj and others. It is like they say; no, gravity does not excist ! No, just that there are different types of meditation. For some reason the technique of TM is being construed as being effortless -- when there is a whole other style of meditation that IS effortless. Therefore it is only natural to ask the question: why would they want to construe themselves or get people to believe this is what they are? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
On May 19, 2005, at 4:10 PM, lupidus108 wrote: For which I presume he is well paid. I might be wrong, but probably not. Maharishi 666 and Maitreya 666 pay me very well. sinister laughter To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want him to be open-minded and considerate. Why? What's my problem? classic Byron Katie inquiry To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and effortless diving
Here's the ultimate dogmatic answer to your point: who the hell cares? After 32 years of TMing, i'm still quite happy with the results of my beginner's technique (and the several Advanced techniques I've been taught). All this talk of more effort, less effort, non-effort, etc., is a bunchof ego posturing. In the real world, its impossible to have less than zero of a material substance. To the level that I can perceive, TM is ALWAYS effortless. If there's effort involved, its my problem, notthe problem of the technique which doesn't really exist. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- lupidus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TM is like diving; jump and the rest is taken care of. It's laws of nature operating. Like gravity the result is inevitable; you fall into transcendence. More interestingly I find that these simple principles are being challenged here on FFL by Vaj and others. It is like they say; no, gravity does not excist ! With motifs I do not want to speculate. But they seem to be operating fulltime. Lups, you do this all the time. When someone doesn't agree with your beliefs or understanding you question their motives or refer to them as a young soul. Doesn't that strike you as rather arrogant? Vaj and others are just pointing out that there is a very, very subtle intent (i.e., effort) in TM. That's all. They are discriminating within the experience of TM. You seem to be a fundamentalist who is more concerned with the purity of your dogma than authentic experiencing and the growth of understanding and insight. As if you already have all the answers. Sorry, but this attitude you have really bugs the bejesus out of me. Go figure. -Peter pissy pants To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
