Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Hi Share, Here was destination of hike I took with #1 (chronologically) son. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Hi Steve, some of MJ's replies to my questions are under the thread, minus the YAS. Hope you all are having fun (-: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress On Saturday, July 12, 2014 10:02 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Beautiful Michael. Thanks for a laugh. One of your many, many abilities. Now, about that mediocre meditation producing all those top drawer experiences ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I can From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. On 07/08/2014 04:53 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Thanks Bucky, but I haven't met any enlightened people here on FFL yet, except maybe Sal. Jim and most here ascribe things to me that don't apply, like the idea that I am seeking redress for wrongs done me. I don't feel aggrieved toward the Movement for wrongs done me personally. I despise the Movement the same way I despise the current political circus we call a government - the gov'ment screws everyone all the time cuz that's what they do, the Movement screws everyone cuz that's what they do - both need to be reigned in and held accountable. I despise a liar and fraud whether he wears white robes and gold crowns or a suit and tie. I remember when the old Spiritual Counterfeits Project used to print up brochures denouncing Marshy and the Movement and they had one with a pencil drawing of Marshy sitting in a chair wearing a Western business suit. My roommate at the time was a TM'er and I was utterly and I mean utterly appalled when he brought that into the apartment. Turns out those SCP people were right!!! Wheee! From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] mailto:dhamiltony2k5@...[FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Rick's original vision for FFL was that this place should be a salon for ideas. Not a saloon. I agree. MJ should just turn the other cheek and yield to the already enlightened here. But then MJ might just get it after enough thrashing, However to avoid conflict with the Yahoo-groups guidelines for civil discourse, where it gets really personal it would be kinder to the whole list if people should just take their personal stuff out to the back alley, off list between themselves, -Buck in the Dome In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Beautiful Michael. Thanks for a laugh. One of your many, many abilities. Now, about that mediocre meditation producing all those top drawer experiences ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I can From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. On 07/08/2014 04:53 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Thanks Bucky, but I haven't met any enlightened people here on FFL yet, except maybe Sal. Jim and most here ascribe things to me that don't apply, like the idea that I am seeking redress for wrongs done me. I don't feel aggrieved toward the Movement for wrongs done me personally. I despise the Movement the same way I despise the current political circus we call a government - the gov'ment screws everyone all the time cuz that's what they do, the Movement screws everyone cuz that's what they do - both need to be reigned in and held accountable. I despise a liar and fraud whether he wears white robes and gold crowns or a suit and tie. I remember when the old Spiritual Counterfeits Project used to print up brochures denouncing Marshy and the Movement and they had one with a pencil drawing of Marshy sitting in a chair wearing a Western business suit. My roommate at the time was a TM'er and I was utterly and I mean utterly appalled when he brought that into the apartment. Turns out those SCP people were right!!! Wheee! From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] mailto:dhamiltony2k5@...[FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Rick's original vision for FFL was that this place should be a salon for ideas. Not a saloon. I agree. MJ should just turn the other cheek and yield to the already enlightened here. But then MJ might just get it after enough thrashing, However to avoid conflict with the Yahoo-groups guidelines for civil discourse, where it gets really personal it would be kinder to the whole list if people should just take their personal stuff out to the back alley, off list between themselves, -Buck in the Dome In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Hi Steve, some of MJ's replies to my questions are under the thread, minus the YAS. Hope you all are having fun (-: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress On Saturday, July 12, 2014 10:02 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Beautiful Michael. Thanks for a laugh. One of your many, many abilities. Now, about that mediocre meditation producing all those top drawer experiences ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I can From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. On 07/08/2014 04:53 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Thanks Bucky, but I haven't met any enlightened people here on FFL yet, except maybe Sal. Jim and most here ascribe things to me that don't apply, like the idea that I am seeking redress for wrongs done me. I don't feel aggrieved toward the Movement for wrongs done me personally. I despise the Movement the same way I despise the current political circus we call a government - the gov'ment screws everyone all the time cuz that's what they do, the Movement screws everyone cuz that's what they do - both need to be reigned in and held accountable. I despise a liar and fraud whether he wears white robes and gold crowns or a suit and tie. I remember when the old Spiritual Counterfeits Project used to print up brochures denouncing Marshy and the Movement and they had one with a pencil drawing of Marshy sitting in a chair wearing a Western business suit. My roommate at the time was a TM'er and I was utterly and I mean utterly appalled when he brought that into the apartment. Turns out those SCP people were right!!! Wheee! From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Rick's original vision for FFL was that this place should be a salon for ideas. Not a saloon. I agree. MJ should just turn the other cheek and yield to the already enlightened here. But then MJ might just get it after enough thrashing, However to avoid conflict with the Yahoo-groups guidelines for civil discourse, where it gets really personal it would be kinder to the whole list if people should just take their personal stuff out to the back alley, off list between themselves, -Buck in the Dome In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not a contradiction, if both of you are too brain dead from years of TM its your own fault. I think your post was a considered and careful post that you took a bit of time to sit down and write. Since I am absolutely neutral on the TM subject I have no vested interest in either you condemning it or condoning it. I found your response interesting because it told me more about you and what things you have pursued and experienced in your life. In fact, I am going to go back and read it once more now. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress WTF!!! Did you actually say anything below, except a bunch of nonsensical rambling. If you don't strike gold after a few parargraph's, Michael, stop boring. Share caught you in a contradiction and all this silly wiggling isn't fooling anyone. Personally I don't care if you call TM, beginner, intermediate, or advanced meditation, but you my friend, must own up to your experiences during the time you practiced it, and not engage in some kind of silly disclaimers. Kapeesh? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Alright Share, I am going to answer your question, but first I want to preface my remarks by saying that I don't think you and other TM'ers here will be able to accept what I say due to the fact that you are functioning with too many preconceived notions or filters given you by the Movement and its founder. You have a certain way of looking at these things about enlightenment and meditation itself that instantly reroutes anything said about it to another part of your belief system, in effect substituting what Marshy sez for what anyone else tells you. Having said that I will begin by saying that I do not designate the experiences I described during the years I did TM as good or not good. I certainly could. I left out the experiences of unstressing of being utterly spaced out, tremendous experiences of disassociation that many in the Movement would call witnessing, anger and depression and all that jazz that we all chalked up to unstressing. I also did not list the experiences I had after TM with other meditations that included a greater or deeper experiences of transcending and growing awareness of the energy or feeling of what I suppose might be pure awareness all the time in activity, the feeling of the energy of the energy of the universe surrounding me all the time, although felt strongest around my body to a distance of about 20 feet or so. (Of course that could all be some major unstressing too or just plain hallucination.) All of the above really got revved up after reading and attempting to follow Eckhart Tolle's practicing presence. I don't believe that any of these experiences have anything to do with any one practice or tradition. None of the experiences really are because of TM, mindfulness, practicing presence, my use of Chopra mantra (Primordial Sound Meditation). All of these experiences are due to me being me. Its all part of the experience of life, of just being alive. It is certainly the case that many people begin to have these experiences on a regular or semi-regular basis after beginning to do TM or any of the many meditations that are out there. Once you begin to get quiet, to go inside, these things start to happen. The difficulty in talking about this to TM'ers is the fact that Marshy always claimed that you basically had to have his technique to really get to the good stuff in your own awareness. This contradicts the idea that we are already enlightened and have forgotten the experience of it. Remember that enlightenment as I am speaking of it means the awareness and visceral experience of being one with all things, all creation all energy. You are in harmony with it all. The problem is that TM'ers think it only happens from doing TM. All of us who did TM had a very subtle thing going on where when we are meditating and have bliss or silence or whatever in the backs of our awareness we are thinking/feeling Ah! This is happening because I am doing TM, because I have Marshy's knowledge. And all that jazz. This illusion leads to a very arrogant, self satisfied and pronounced feeling of unwarranted superiority not only over non–meditators compared to us but towards all people who foolishly choose to meditate with other than TM. This is exacerbated by the fact that after the Movement took off and Marshy had a lot of people asking personal questions of him about their experiences he made up a bunch of crap to make it sound like any positive experience was something expected of TM when in reality he had no clue about some of the stuff
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
thanks! From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not a contradiction, if both of you are too brain dead from years of TM its your own fault. I think your post was a considered and careful post that you took a bit of time to sit down and write. Since I am absolutely neutral on the TM subject I have no vested interest in either you condemning it or condoning it. I found your response interesting because it told me more about you and what things you have pursued and experienced in your life. In fact, I am going to go back and read it once more now. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress WTF!!! Did you actually say anything below, except a bunch of nonsensical rambling. If you don't strike gold after a few parargraph's, Michael, stop boring. Share caught you in a contradiction and all this silly wiggling isn't fooling anyone. Personally I don't care if you call TM, beginner, intermediate, or advanced meditation, but you my friend, must own up to your experiences during the time you practiced it, and not engage in some kind of silly disclaimers. Kapeesh? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Alright Share, I am going to answer your question, but first I want to preface my remarks by saying that I don't think you and other TM'ers here will be able to accept what I say due to the fact that you are functioning with too many preconceived notions or filters given you by the Movement and its founder. You have a certain way of looking at these things about enlightenment and meditation itself that instantly reroutes anything said about it to another part of your belief system, in effect substituting what Marshy sez for what anyone else tells you. Having said that I will begin by saying that I do not designate the experiences I described during the years I did TM as good or not good. I certainly could. I left out the experiences of unstressing of being utterly spaced out, tremendous experiences of disassociation that many in the Movement would call witnessing, anger and depression and all that jazz that we all chalked up to unstressing. I also did not list the experiences I had after TM with other meditations that included a greater or deeper experiences of transcending and growing awareness of the energy or feeling of what I suppose might be pure awareness all the time in activity, the feeling of the energy of the energy of the universe surrounding me all the time, although felt strongest around my body to a distance of about 20 feet or so. (Of course that could all be some major unstressing too or just plain hallucination.) All of the above really got revved up after reading and attempting to follow Eckhart Tolle's practicing presence. I don't believe that any of these experiences have anything to do with any one practice or tradition. None of the experiences really are because of TM, mindfulness, practicing presence, my use of Chopra mantra (Primordial Sound Meditation). All of these experiences are due to me being me. Its all part of the experience of life, of just being alive. It is certainly the case that many people begin to have these experiences on a regular or semi-regular basis after beginning to do TM or any of the many meditations that are out there. Once you begin to get quiet, to go inside, these things start to happen. The difficulty in talking about this to TM'ers is the fact that Marshy always claimed that you basically had to have his technique to really get to the good stuff in your own awareness. This contradicts the idea that we are already enlightened and have forgotten the experience of it. Remember that enlightenment as I am speaking of it means the awareness and visceral experience of being one with all things, all creation all energy. You are in harmony with it all. The problem is that TM'ers think it only happens from doing TM. All of us who did TM had a very subtle thing going on where when we are meditating and have bliss or silence or whatever in the backs of our awareness we are thinking/feeling Ah! This is happening because I am doing TM, because I have Marshy's knowledge. And all that jazz. This illusion leads to a very arrogant, self satisfied and pronounced feeling of unwarranted superiority not only over non–meditators compared to us but towards all people who foolishly choose to meditate with other than TM. This is exacerbated by the fact that after the Movement took off and Marshy had a lot
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
What I'm suggesting, Lawson, is that the research you cling to like a life preserver is completely meaningless. The researchers have no objective standards or criteria for identifying the subjects they consider being in CC for at least a year. All they are going by is CLAIMS, made by people who have been told for years that they'll be oh-so-SPECIAL if they make those claims. Would YOU consider anyone enlightened who merely claimed to be enlightened? If so, then you consider Ravi enlightened, because he claimed to be enlightened here on FFL for some time. You also consider Rory and Jimbo and a number of other people enlightened, because they claimed to be. Be honest, Lawson...you probably consider the three people I just named to be as delusional as I do. And I think you similarly know that your researchers are doing research on delusional people, not on enlightened people. They're measuring the EEG patterns of mood-making. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Lawson, the subjects of these studies are NOT enlightened unless the organization that sells the technique promising enlightenment *certifies* them as enlightened. That has never happened, for even a single person, in over 50 years. From: lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com What I'm suggesting, Lawson, is that the research you cling to like a life preserver is completely meaningless. The researchers have no objective standards or criteria for identifying the subjects they consider being in CC for at least a year. All they are going by is CLAIMS, made by people who have been told for years that they'll be oh-so-SPECIAL if they make those claims. Would YOU consider anyone enlightened who merely claimed to be enlightened? If so, then you consider Ravi enlightened, because he claimed to be enlightened here on FFL for some time. You also consider Rory and Jimbo and a number of other people enlightened, because they claimed to be. Be honest, Lawson...you probably consider the three people I just named to be as delusional as I do. And I think you similarly know that your researchers are doing research on delusional people, not on enlightened people. They're measuring the EEG patterns of mood-making. Another point -- *you yourself* have expressed doubts that some of the people interviewed by Rick as part of his Buddha At The Gas Pump series are really enlightened or awakened. Well, each of them has the *exact same qualifications for enlightenment as the subjects of these experiments you believe are valid -- they've made claims about their subjective experiences. That's IT. The research you've tried to characterize as being performed on people who have been in CC for at least a year is a sham. It's research on people who have CLAIMED to be having experiences that they were TOLD were valuable (thus invoking the placebo effect) and that have no substantiation. Your researchers could as easily be doing research on people who claim to be the reincarnation of Napoleon. And let's face it...if these subjects are long-term TMers, some of them probably DO claim to have been Napoleon. :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Lawson, the subjects of these studies are NOT enlightened unless the organization that sells the technique promising enlightenment *certifies* them as enlightened. That has never happened, for even a single person, in over 50 years. From: lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt anyone else can. Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Ah, your lack of relevant experience with the TMO, and TM, is showing, Barry - Nowhere in all the published literature does the TMO, or Maharishi, promise *anyone* enlightenment, as a result of doing TM. This is a fantasy of yours, designed to dovetail with your own spiritual failings. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Lawson, the subjects of these studies are NOT enlightened unless the organization that sells the technique promising enlightenment *certifies* them as enlightened. That has never happened, for even a single person, in over 50 years. From: LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
You, by your own admission, have only managed witnessing (CC) for a period of TWO WEEKS, lifetime total. No wonder you are jealous to the point of ranting, when you realize that many people have witnessed for a year, and some, like me, and others here, for much, much longer than that. You don't get this stuff for free, Barry. It takes years of dedication, and perseverance. Sitting around on your butt, watching TV and movies won't get you there, no matter how much you whine about it. You are past the point of making further progress, but kindly quit pissing in everyone else's cheerios, as a result. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com What I'm suggesting, Lawson, is that the research you cling to like a life preserver is completely meaningless. The researchers have no objective standards or criteria for identifying the subjects they consider being in CC for at least a year. All they are going by is CLAIMS, made by people who have been told for years that they'll be oh-so-SPECIAL if they make those claims. Would YOU consider anyone enlightened who merely claimed to be enlightened? If so, then you consider Ravi enlightened, because he claimed to be enlightened here on FFL for some time. You also consider Rory and Jimbo and a number of other people enlightened, because they claimed to be. Be honest, Lawson...you probably consider the three people I just named to be as delusional as I do. And I think you similarly know that your researchers are doing research on delusional people, not on enlightened people. They're measuring the EEG patterns of mood-making. Another point -- *you yourself* have expressed doubts that some of the people interviewed by Rick as part of his Buddha At The Gas Pump series are really enlightened or awakened. Well, each of them has the *exact same qualifications for enlightenment as the subjects of these experiments you believe are valid -- they've made claims about their subjective experiences. That's IT. The research you've tried to characterize as being performed on people who have been in CC for at least a year is a sham. It's research on people who have CLAIMED to be having experiences that they were TOLD were valuable (thus invoking the placebo effect) and that have no substantiation. Your researchers could as easily be doing research on people who claim to be the reincarnation of Napoleon. And let's face it...if these subjects are long-term TMers, some of them probably DO claim to have been Napoleon. :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Lawson, the subjects of these studies are NOT enlightened unless the organization that sells the technique promising enlightenment *certifies* them as enlightened. That has never happened, for even a single person, in over 50 years. From: LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt anyone else can. Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Funny how Barry wants us all to take HIS word for it, when he self-reports seeing levitation, holds judgment on who is and isn't enlightened, and supposedly sees portals into other dimensions when walking around. Another double standard from our resident hypocrite. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
I greatly appreciate how you are able to put things in perspective with your posts here :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It is OK, actually - We are obviously eternal, and he will have many more chances. Waste of time, currently, though. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the hard reality this poor soul has to face, he simply missed the boat and is left with nothing but frustration and anger. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : But Barry, you haven't done TM long enough, to know one way or the other. The practice of TM has produced many enlightened people - it is obvious. The entire consciousness of the world has been lifted by this practice. Too bad you only did TM for a few years, and quit during the last century. Missed the boat, and sinking fast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Are you kidding? Marshy verbally certified Robin and Andy as being enlightened - hee heee! From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 1:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Lawson, the subjects of these studies are NOT enlightened unless the organization that sells the technique promising enlightenment *certifies* them as enlightened. That has never happened, for even a single person, in over 50 years. From: lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Your ability to put things in perspective with your posts here is great appreciated :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It is OK, actually - We are obviously eternal, and he will have many more chances. Waste of time, currently, though. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the hard reality this poor soul has to face, he simply missed the boat and is left with nothing but frustration and anger. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : But Barry, you haven't done TM long enough, to know one way or the other. The practice of TM has produced many enlightened people - it is obvious. The entire consciousness of the world has been lifted by this practice. Too bad you only did TM for a few years, and quit during the last century. Missed the boat, and sinking fast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
On 7/8/2014 8:50 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : *From:* Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a ?? What do you doubt? And we've all had this discussion before about the Movement claiming people to be enlightened or not. To say not one meditator in 50 years has become enlightened due to TM is like saying there are no purple octopi in the sea. You simply can't know that because you haven't scoured the entire ocean for a purple octopus. You're talking rubbish. Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people. I'm assuming you count yourself among the boring and crazy people. Or maybe not. There is simply nothing better than conversing with other enlightened boring and crazy people on an internet discussion group like FFL. Obviously, these people wouldn't be posting to FFL unless they were in an enlightened state - that's just what enlightened people do. It's beginning to look like several of the informants here are in more or less /permanent enlightenment/, based on their length of time as FFL respondents. Others seem to come and go, which indicates that they get enlightened at a certain point and they start communicating with the enlightened group, but then their state of awareness starts to fade away and they just drop out of sight and stop posting. Maybe they just sink back into their fantasy secular world of the non-enlightened mass of humanity and try to try and work out their karma. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Sure - I don't mind needling my spiritual brother, Barry. All in good fun, and a few lessons for him to learn, too. If you have noticed, Barry has become far less vocal, since I began pointing out what little experience he has, regarding TM and Maharishi, and what little progress (none) he has made in the last thirty years, spiritually. He has been shown, systematically, to be a liar, and someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. It must be a little embarrassing to be exposed like that, and he is obviously backing away, and quieting down, which is a good thing. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Your ability to put things in perspective with your posts here is great appreciated :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It is OK, actually - We are obviously eternal, and he will have many more chances. Waste of time, currently, though. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the hard reality this poor soul has to face, he simply missed the boat and is left with nothing but frustration and anger. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : But Barry, you haven't done TM long enough, to know one way or the other. The practice of TM has produced many enlightened people - it is obvious. The entire consciousness of the world has been lifted by this practice. Too bad you only did TM for a few years, and quit during the last century. Missed the boat, and sinking fast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
On 7/9/2014 3:04 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Funny how Barry wants us all to take HIS word for it, when he self-reports seeing levitation, holds judgment on who is and isn't enlightened, and supposedly sees portals into other dimensions when walking around. Another double standard from our resident hypocrite. Apparently Barry is also now a psychologist and a science writer and it looks like we have several informants on the list. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : *From:* Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
On 7/9/2014 7:48 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Sure - I don't mind needling my spiritual brother, Barry. All in good fun, and a few lessons for him to learn, too. If you have noticed, Barry has become far less vocal, since I began pointing out what little experience he has, regarding TM and Maharishi, and what little progress (none) he has made in the last thirty years, spiritually. He has been shown, systematically, to be a liar, and someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. It must be a little embarrassing to be exposed like that, and he is obviously backing away, and quieting down, which is a good thing. :-) At first it is a little embarrassing, but you get over it with a little help from your friends. Judy used to needle me all the time for no apparent reason and Barry posted some really prejudiced responses to some of my early messages. In one post Barry called me a hick because I was born in Texas. About six years later I found out that Barry was actually from around here too. That's when I realized that almost all of Barry's posts were trick messages. From what I've read, Barry's teacher, Fred Lenz was a big trickster - he tricked Barry into giving him tons of money for years. Some people seem to be highly susceptible to suggestion. Apparently Barry is still in a trance-induction state of somekind. Judy couldn't get him to be honest - maybe you can influence him, but I doubt it. At Barry's age, he's not going to change much anymore. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Your ability to put things in perspective with your posts here is great appreciated :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It is OK, actually - We are obviously eternal, and he will have many more chances. Waste of time, currently, though. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the hard reality this poor soul has to face, he simply missed the boat and is left with nothing but frustration and anger. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : But Barry, you haven't done TM long enough, to know one way or the other. The practice of TM has produced many enlightened people - it is obvious. The entire consciousness of the world has been lifted by this practice. Too bad you only did TM for a few years, and quit during the last century. Missed the boat, and sinking fast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : *From:* Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Lawson, the subjects of these studies are NOT enlightened unless the organization that sells the technique promising enlightenment *certifies* them as enlightened. That has never happened, for even a single person, in over 50 years. Whether this is true or not I have no idea as I haven't followed what the Movement has been doing for 30 years but even if the organization certified them as enlightened you still wouldn't believe them. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. From: LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Indeed, and the journalists he is bragging about has probably noticed this too :-) Why would anyone with his mind in good order take a fellow who hasn't bee practicing a path in more than 40 years as an authority ? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Sure - I don't mind needling my spiritual brother, Barry. All in good fun, and a few lessons for him to learn, too. If you have noticed, Barry has become far less vocal, since I began pointing out what little experience he has, regarding TM and Maharishi, and what little progress (none) he has made in the last thirty years, spiritually. He has been shown, systematically, to be a liar, and someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. It must be a little embarrassing to be exposed like that, and he is obviously backing away, and quieting down, which is a good thing. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Your ability to put things in perspective with your posts here is great appreciated :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It is OK, actually - We are obviously eternal, and he will have many more chances. Waste of time, currently, though. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the hard reality this poor soul has to face, he simply missed the boat and is left with nothing but frustration and anger. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : But Barry, you haven't done TM long enough, to know one way or the other. The practice of TM has produced many enlightened people - it is obvious. The entire consciousness of the world has been lifted by this practice. Too bad you only did TM for a few years, and quit during the last century. Missed the boat, and sinking fast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Indeed, and the journalists he is bragging about has probably noticed this too :-) Why would anyone with his mind in good order take a fellow who hasn't bee practicing a path in more than 40 years as an authority? Anyone who has heard of the concept of enlightenment and taken an interest in the idea is on a path. Everyone's path is slightly different. If you die before 'enlightenment' the path was not finished. If you wake up, the path ends, and life takes a different turn. Practising something or not does not mean a person is not on a path. If I take a hike, sometimes I stop to catch my breath and evaluate where I am. Barry has opinions about various things. Exactly what he really believes about the opinions he expresses here I do not know. As a former teacher of TM, he has certain knowledge that makes him an authority on those matters which he was taught regarding TM, and has had certain experiences in the TM movement, which he may relate if he desires. What makes you an authority in this matter of Barry? Enlightenment basically makes one one's own authority, but how others regard what another says is a matter for their own intelligence or lack of it. For that matter what makes me an authority in any matter? There are certain subjects I know fairly well, others less so, and others much less so. The amount of knowledge, as information about the world and life, a person has via direct experience is usually rather small, and most of what we relate to others is secondary, tertiary information, true or false, that we got from others, from books, off the Internet and other media, and which we did not evaluate critically. If I were to venture a guess about Barry based on everything he has posted here that I have read, I would say underneath it all he has basic common sense, and probably more so now than he did in the past as, obviously, he had a few detours. We all live and learn, most of us anyway. For some reason in spiritual movements, common sense flies the coop.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Why is it that the same people who bitch when I state clearly that everything I say is nothing but my OPINION then turn around and claim that I want to be an authority? I'm probably the only person on this forum who *doesn't* claim to know the truth about stuff. I'm also one of the only people who doesn't try to convince others to believe my opinions, or consider them correct or right. I merely present my opinions and my experiences, and allow other people to decide for themselves what to make of them. This, by the way, is one of the reasons I actually have some credibility with these journalists, and others here do not. They've told me as much. A couple of them have actually written me recently to let me know that *they* know that the Barry hasn't been part of the TMO for 40 years blurb being thrown around a lot lately is a lie. They figured out it was a lie simply by reading a few posts here and doing the math. They've noted the names of the people who made up the lie and have been repeating it, and have added those names to their *actual* has no credibility list. So there. :-) From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Indeed, and the journalists he is bragging about has probably noticed this too :-) Why would anyone with his mind in good order take a fellow who hasn't bee practicing a path in more than 40 years as an authority? Anyone who has heard of the concept of enlightenment and taken an interest in the idea is on a path. Everyone's path is slightly different. If you die before 'enlightenment' the path was not finished. If you wake up, the path ends, and life takes a different turn. Practising something or not does not mean a person is not on a path. If I take a hike, sometimes I stop to catch my breath and evaluate where I am. Barry has opinions about various things. Exactly what he really believes about the opinions he expresses here I do not know. As a former teacher of TM, he has certain knowledge that makes him an authority on those matters which he was taught regarding TM, and has had certain experiences in the TM movement, which he may relate if he desires. What makes you an authority in this matter of Barry? Enlightenment basically makes one one's own authority, but how others regard what another says is a matter for their own intelligence or lack of it. For that matter what makes me an authority in any matter? There are certain subjects I know fairly well, others less so, and others much less so. The amount of knowledge, as information about the world and life, a person has via direct experience is usually rather small, and most of what we relate to others is secondary, tertiary information, true or false, that we got from others, from books, off the Internet and other media, and which we did not evaluate critically. If I were to venture a guess about Barry based on everything he has posted here that I have read, I would say underneath it all he has basic common sense, and probably more so now than he did in the past as, obviously, he had a few detours. We all live and learn, most of us anyway. For some reason in spiritual movements, common sense flies the coop.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
It is complicated. It's out of my purview also to tell Share what to do. Sorry Share, I'm not like this in real life. My dark side shows up here. I'm working on it. I've got a ways to go, so I'll be quiet for another stretch of indeterminate length. :) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 7/9/2014 12:00 PM, emilymaenot@... mailto:emilymaenot@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Share, read his reply *to you*. He wrote back *to you.* Comment on that. What you say below isn't what he said. It sounds complicated. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, belief has nothing to do with it. I'm simply attempting to understand why you think what you wrote to Fleetwood doesn't sound like positive experiences. And why all your experiences are due to being human, etc. Except for your so called negative ones with TM! On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:30 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Like I said, you are so indoctrinated into believing in the good experiences from TM you are as brain dead as Willy Tex when it comes to even trying to comprehend what I wrote. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Michael, in your post to Fleetwood, your descriptions of your TM experiences (see below) sounded positive to me: waves of bliss on the ocean of bliss; MANY experiences of God Consciousness; Unity. And now you're saying that they weren't good or not good?! Sounds like backtracking to me! You also contradict yourself in another major way: you keep saying that all your experiences with TM and other modalities are just due to being human, being alive, etc. Nonetheless at the end you say that your experiences after TM are more powerful and more fulfilling. Would that also be due to your being human, being alive, etc? IOW, your logic falters when you say that the good from TM was from just you being human, etc. but the so called bad was not from this! Seems like a double standard to me! MJ wrote: I'm not sure exactly what success with TM means. I used my TM mantra and its advanced forms. I used them alone and in groups. I experienced what was referred to as clear transcending, and after a bit of time I felt bliss and silence, sometimes deep silence. At times I felt during the practice of TM rolling waves of bliss on the ocean of bliss, I had many experiences of witnessing during activity, meditation, dreams and with less frequency, sleep. After a couple years I had MANY experiences of God Consciousness, many, many. Some clear as a bell experiences of ritam - having a thought and seeing the object, person, place etc thought of as clear as watching a movie of it/them. And some experiences of Unity, beginning with the odd one of experiencing total with the sound of a fat TM teacher dragging a chair across an indoor/outdoor carpet in a North Carolina hotel as she was exiting the staff group meditation. On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 7:53 PM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Alright Share, I am going to answer your question, but first I want to preface my remarks by saying that I don't think you and other TM'ers here will be able to accept what I say due to the fact that you are functioning with too many preconceived notions or filters given you by the Movement and its founder. You have a certain way of looking at these things about enlightenment and meditation itself that instantly reroutes anything said about it to another part of your belief system, in effect substituting what Marshy sez for what anyone else tells you. Having said that I will begin by saying that I do not designate the experiences I described during the years I did TM as good or not good. I certainly could. I left out the experiences of unstressing of being utterly spaced out, tremendous experiences of disassociation that many in the Movement would call witnessing, anger and depression and all that jazz that we all chalked up to unstressing. I also did not list the experiences I had after TM with other meditations that included a greater or deeper experiences of transcending and growing awareness of the energy or feeling of what I suppose might be pure awareness all the time in activity, the feeling of the energy of the energy of the universe surrounding me all the time
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
I was mystified as to that phrase - first time I had heard it. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Thanks Bucky, but I haven't met any enlightened people here on FFL yet, except maybe Sal. Jim and most here ascribe things to me that don't apply, like the idea that I am seeking redress for wrongs done me. I don't feel aggrieved toward the Movement for wrongs done me personally. I despise the Movement the same way I despise the current political circus we call a government - the gov'ment screws everyone all the time cuz that's what they do, the Movement screws everyone cuz that's what they do - both need to be reigned in and held accountable. I despise a liar and fraud whether he wears white robes and gold crowns or a suit and tie. I remember when the old Spiritual Counterfeits Project used to print up brochures denouncing Marshy and the Movement and they had one with a pencil drawing of Marshy sitting in a chair wearing a Western business suit. My roommate at the time was a TM'er and I was utterly and I mean utterly appalled when he brought that into the apartment. Turns out those SCP people were right!!! Wheee! From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Rick's original vision for FFL was that this place should be a salon for ideas. Not a saloon. I agree. MJ should just turn the other cheek and yield to the already enlightened here. But then MJ might just get it after enough thrashing, However to avoid conflict with the Yahoo-groups guidelines for civil discourse, where it gets really personal it would be kinder to the whole list if people should just take their personal stuff out to the back alley, off list between themselves, -Buck in the Dome In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was mystified as to that phrase - first time I had heard it. It's a great saying, actually. Here is more: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=all%20up%20in%20my%20grill http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=all%20up%20in%20my%20grill From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
On 07/08/2014 09:10 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a I met folks whose practice of TM triggered enlightenment and even in short form. Some had learned other techniques before they came to TM. And ... (see below) Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people. I think true to a degree as some of the folks I mention above wouldn't waste their time on FFL other than for amusement. They also have often moved on to other things than TM. But enlightenment or experiencing the process is quite simple. One of the things I've been critical of Maharishi's teaching is how he sort of muddied the waters of understanding about what enlightenment is really about compared to other teachers.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
translates to 'up in their face' - has nothing to do with violence - have not had a physical fight yet, in this lifetime. Much can be accomplished directly, with words. Peace. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Thanks, Ann - I detest baggage. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
yep - like trying to figure out whether a person has graduated from college, from how they speak. However, by having ready awareness of, or being awake to, all the myriad spiritual amplitudes and frequencies, an enlightened person is able to harmonize with another enlightened person, energetically, regardless of distance. Like turning into a moksha-seeking radio, or something. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. On 07/08/2014 04:53 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Thanks Bucky, but I haven't met any enlightened people here on FFL yet, except maybe Sal. Jim and most here ascribe things to me that don't apply, like the idea that I am seeking redress for wrongs done me. I don't feel aggrieved toward the Movement for wrongs done me personally. I despise the Movement the same way I despise the current political circus we call a government - the gov'ment screws everyone all the time cuz that's what they do, the Movement screws everyone cuz that's what they do - both need to be reigned in and held accountable. I despise a liar and fraud whether he wears white robes and gold crowns or a suit and tie. I remember when the old Spiritual Counterfeits Project used to print up brochures denouncing Marshy and the Movement and they had one with a pencil drawing of Marshy sitting in a chair wearing a Western business suit. My roommate at the time was a TM'er and I was utterly and I mean utterly appalled when he brought that into the apartment. Turns out those SCP people were right!!! Wheee! From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] mailto:dhamiltony2k5@...[FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Rick's original vision for FFL was that this place should be a salon for ideas. Not a saloon. I agree. MJ should just turn the other cheek and yield to the already enlightened here. But then MJ might just get it after enough thrashing, However to avoid conflict with the Yahoo-groups guidelines for civil discourse, where it gets really personal it would be kinder to the whole list if people should just take their personal stuff out to the back alley, off list between themselves, -Buck in the Dome In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
I don't find anyone here boring - some like you, Curtis and Sal are mighty interesting with mighty interesting thing to share. Others are absolutely crazy like Willy Tex and others are raving lunatics like Nabby and Buck. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
But Barry, you haven't done TM long enough, to know one way or the other. The practice of TM has produced many enlightened people - it is obvious. The entire consciousness of the world has been lifted by this practice. Too bad you only did TM for a few years, and quit during the last century. Missed the boat, and sinking fast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
That's the hard reality this poor soul has to face, he simply missed the boat and is left with nothing but frustration and anger. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : But Barry, you haven't done TM long enough, to know one way or the other. The practice of TM has produced many enlightened people - it is obvious. The entire consciousness of the world has been lifted by this practice. Too bad you only did TM for a few years, and quit during the last century. Missed the boat, and sinking fast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
On 7/8/2014 4:21 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I don't find anyone here boring - some like you, Curtis and Sal are mighty interesting with mighty interesting thing to share. Others are absolutely crazy like Willy Tex and others are raving lunatics like Nabby and Buck. So, you don't have any evidence. I thought so. Go figure. *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:10 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : yep - like trying to figure out whether a person has graduated from college, from how they speak. However, by having ready awareness of, or being awake to, all the myriad spiritual amplitudes and frequencies, an enlightened person is able to harmonize with another enlightened person, energetically, regardless of distance. Like turning into a moksha-seeking radio, or something. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. On 07/08/2014 04:53 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Thanks Bucky, but I haven't met any enlightened people here on FFL yet, except maybe Sal. Jim and most here ascribe things to me that don't apply, like the idea that I am seeking redress for wrongs done me. I don't feel aggrieved toward the Movement for wrongs done me personally. I despise the Movement the same way I despise the current political circus we call a government - the gov'ment screws everyone all the time cuz that's what they do, the Movement screws everyone cuz that's what they do - both need to be reigned in and held accountable. I despise a liar and fraud whether he wears white robes and gold crowns or a suit and tie. I remember when the old Spiritual Counterfeits Project used to print up brochures denouncing Marshy and the Movement and they had one with a pencil drawing of Marshy sitting in a chair wearing a Western business suit. My roommate at the time was a TM'er and I was utterly and I mean utterly appalled when he brought that into the apartment. Turns out those SCP people were right!!! Wheee! From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] mailto:dhamiltony2k5@...[FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Rick's original vision for FFL was that this place should be a salon for ideas. Not a saloon. I agree. MJ should just turn the other cheek and yield to the already enlightened here. But then MJ might just get it after enough thrashing, However to avoid conflict with the Yahoo-groups guidelines for civil discourse, where it gets really personal it would be kinder to the whole list if people should just take their personal stuff out to the back alley, off list between themselves, -Buck in the Dome In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I didn't write that. Mac wrote that. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
It is OK, actually - We are obviously eternal, and he will have many more chances. Waste of time, currently, though. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the hard reality this poor soul has to face, he simply missed the boat and is left with nothing but frustration and anger. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : But Barry, you haven't done TM long enough, to know one way or the other. The practice of TM has produced many enlightened people - it is obvious. The entire consciousness of the world has been lifted by this practice. Too bad you only did TM for a few years, and quit during the last century. Missed the boat, and sinking fast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a ?? What do you doubt? And we've all had this discussion before about the Movement claiming people to be enlightened or not. To say not one meditator in 50 years has become enlightened due to TM is like saying there are no purple octopi in the sea. You simply can't know that because you haven't scoured the entire ocean for a purple octopus. You're talking rubbish. Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people. I'm assuming you count yourself among the boring and crazy people. Or maybe not.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Yep, Bleeding Hearts Defiled by sin, Quiet Time Meditation can make, can make you clean; Contrite souls with guilt oppressed, Quiet Time Meditation can give, can give you rest. Om Sweet Redeemer from Within, Born on wings, on the wings of love. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck Shape Note Natick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_76Cx-bJ_s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_76Cx-bJ_s Shape Note Natick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_76Cx-bJ_s Fairfield Prairie Harmony singing Shapenote songs in the Icon gallery during the First Friday's Art Walk on 4Apr08. View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_76Cx-bJ_s Preview by Yahoo Missed the boat, and sinking fast. Nablusoss observes: That's the hard reality this poor soul has to face, he simply missed the boat and is left with nothing but frustration and anger. fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : But Barry, you haven't done TM long enough, to know one way or the other. The practice of TM has produced many enlightened people - it is obvious. The entire consciousness of the world has been lifted by this practice. Too bad you only did TM for a few years, and quit during the last century. Missed the boat, and sinking fast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Or perhaps others have muddied ideas about enlightenment? L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : On 07/08/2014 09:10 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a I met folks whose practice of TM triggered enlightenment and even in short form. Some had learned other techniques before they came to TM. And ... (see below) Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people. I think true to a degree as some of the folks I mention above wouldn't waste their time on FFL other than for amusement. They also have often moved on to other things than TM. But enlightenment or experiencing the process is quite simple. One of the things I've been critical of Maharishi's teaching is how he sort of muddied the waters of understanding about what enlightenment is really about compared to other teachers.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Lawson, the subjects of these studies are NOT enlightened unless the organization that sells the technique promising enlightenment *certifies* them as enlightened. That has never happened, for even a single person, in over 50 years. From: lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. You mean, other than the published physiological and psychological research on the people meeting the TM criterion for being in CC for at least a year? I understand you don't want to accept scientific research on enlightenment, even of beginning CC, as valid, but oh well... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I don't think you can figure out whether a person is enlightened or not from their posts on a group. I am not convinced of this, for two reasons. First, if the group in question is TM-related, there is pretty much zero chance of any TM practitioner posting to that group being enlightened, because in over 50 years of selling the fastest path to enlightenment, the TM organization has never been able to produce a single person they can point to as having become enlightened as a result of their technique. If the organization selling the technique can't come up with anyone enlightened, I doubt a Second, if the group is Fairfield Life, I think anyone truly enlightened would have better things to do than converse with a bunch of boring crazy people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires more activity than mindfulness, if you want to get the mantra going. In other words, TM has nothing to do, and mindfulness is just that state of nothing to do. TM is better at 'controlling' a restless mind. My mind is no longer restless, and so the TM advantage in this situation is considerably diminished, like, to zero. So in this case mindfulness is really no longer a technique at all, and TM is superfluous. mjackson74 responds: Beautifully expressed! Now let's see if the TM aficionados will revile you for saying so. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress When examined for what it is, so called mindfulness, is not a mechanism for reliable transcendence, at all - more like meandering around on the surface of the mind. Something that clearly evolved, as a poor second best, after the knowledge of TM was lost. Those championing it have had very few, or no sustained, deep experiences of transcending, otherwise they would see it for the shallow practice that it is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, while the study in question by Rosenthal and company was tiny and had no control group, it was still a quite impressive finding. My point isn't so much that mindfulness doesn't have an effect on PTSD, but that the media hypes it as being very strong, while ignoring the evidence that TM's effects on stress are demonstrably far stronger. Stress isn't the only thing going on in the world, and isn't the only cause of mental and physical problems, and mindfulness' effects on the brain are quite different than TM's, so it is entirely possible that mindfulness will prove to be more therapeutic about many things in specific people than TM is. But on raw measures of stress-redection, my expectation is that TM will always prove superior, just because that is all TM is, really: Just stress reduction. Maharishi's description that the mind
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires more activity than mindfulness, if you want to get the mantra going. In other words, TM has nothing to do, and mindfulness is just that state of nothing to do. TM is better at 'controlling' a restless mind. My mind is no longer restless, and so the TM advantage in this situation is considerably diminished, like, to zero. So in this case mindfulness is really no longer a technique at all, and TM is superfluous. mjackson74 responds: Beautifully expressed! Now let's see if the TM aficionados will revile you for saying so. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress When examined for what it is, so called mindfulness, is not a mechanism for reliable transcendence, at all - more like meandering around on the surface of the mind. Something that clearly evolved, as a poor second best, after the knowledge of TM was lost. Those championing it have had very few, or no sustained, deep experiences of transcending, otherwise they would see it for the shallow practice that it is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, while the study in question by Rosenthal and company was tiny and had no control group, it was still a quite impressive finding. My point isn't so much that mindfulness doesn't have an effect on PTSD, but that the media hypes it as being very strong, while ignoring the evidence that TM's effects on stress are demonstrably far stronger. Stress isn't the only thing going on in the world, and isn't the only cause
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Did you know Einstein had affairs constantly? Does that invalidate your knowledge of his Theory of Relativity? I think you wanted Maharishi to be some sort of god-like, parental and paternal, authority figure. Then when he turns out to have a personality all his own, all you spiritual kiddies go to pieces, making it your apparent life's work to get back at Dad. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires more activity than mindfulness, if you want to get the mantra going. In other words, TM has nothing to do, and mindfulness is just that state of nothing to do. TM is better at 'controlling' a restless mind. My mind is no longer restless, and so the TM advantage in this situation is considerably diminished, like, to zero. So in this case mindfulness is really no longer a technique at all, and TM is superfluous. mjackson74 responds: Beautifully expressed! Now let's see if the TM aficionados will revile you for saying so. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress When examined for what it is, so called mindfulness, is not a mechanism for reliable transcendence, at all - more like meandering around on the surface of the mind. Something that clearly evolved, as a poor second best, after the knowledge of TM was lost. Those championing it have had very few, or no sustained, deep experiences of transcending, otherwise they would see it for the shallow practice that it is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, while the study in question by Rosenthal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Did you know Einstein had affairs constantly? Does that invalidate your knowledge of his Theory of Relativity? I think you wanted Maharishi to be some sort of god-like, parental and paternal, authority figure. Then when he turns out to have a personality all his own, all you spiritual kiddies go to pieces, making it your apparent life's work to get back at Dad. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. I think there is an aspect of prudishness going on here, an idea that having sex with another human being is somehow low and base and indicative of a less developed human being. It is Puritanical, short sighted and an indoctrination from religions and various spiritual teachings from down the ages. If people would just stop for a second and think about it they might realize they are more brainwashed than they realized. No one can say for sure that climaxing sexually is either a waste of energy, an indicator of Neanderthal-like behaviour or should otherwise disqualify one from having something useful to teach. If MMY was a virgin I would have far more serious questions about his wisdom or his knowledge of life than if he had experienced love or desire or even just the vagina of a woman. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Does your arm ever get sore reaching around and patting yourself on the back? (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires more activity than mindfulness, if you want to get the mantra going. In other words, TM has nothing to do, and mindfulness is just that state of nothing to do. TM is better at 'controlling' a restless mind. My mind is no longer restless, and so the TM advantage in this situation is considerably diminished, like, to zero. So in this case mindfulness is really no longer a technique at all, and TM is superfluous. mjackson74 responds: Beautifully expressed! Now let's see if the TM aficionados will revile you for saying so. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress When examined for what it is, so called mindfulness, is not a mechanism for reliable transcendence, at all - more like meandering around on the surface of the mind. Something that clearly evolved, as a poor second best, after the knowledge of TM was lost. Those championing it have had very few, or no sustained, deep experiences of transcending, otherwise they would see it for the shallow practice that it is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, while the study in question by Rosenthal and company was tiny and had no control group, it was still a quite impressive finding. My point isn't so much that mindfulness doesn't have an effect on PTSD, but that the media hypes it as being very strong, while ignoring the evidence that TM's effects on stress are demonstrably far stronger. Stress isn't
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
That's a bullshit excuse you are making for a man who was a fraud on all levels. You make it because you can't stand the idea of anything about TM being the lest bit, well shall we say not 100% life supporting. Einstein never claimed to be a lifelong celibate. Marshy did. And not only did he make that claim into a lie by sleeping with his followers, he told them all to be celibate to make the gals more horny and make sure no other men were going to cut him out of his intended conquests. Had you been an older man, had children sooner, how would you have felt had your daughter wound up being one of Marshy's conquests? My statement was not however limited to his sexual proclivities, it covers all of his deceit and deliberate lie and manipulation of many people, none of whom he gave a shit about. He used people and threw them away. If you can condone that kind of behavior, then I don't think the kind of enlightenment you have achieved through TM is worth much. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Did you know Einstein had affairs constantly? Does that invalidate your knowledge of his Theory of Relativity? I think you wanted Maharishi to be some sort of god-like, parental and paternal, authority figure. Then when he turns out to have a personality all his own, all you spiritual kiddies go to pieces, making it your apparent life's work to get back at Dad. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
On 7/7/2014 9:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: That's a bullshit excuse you are making for a man who was a fraud on all levels... The bodies are piling up in Baghdad murdered, by ISIS and al-Baghdadi, but your enemy is MMY and the TMO. You are one fucked up in the head individual, whoever you are. Go figure. The bodies of the disappeared have started turning up, dumped in local squares. The death threats have, too - knocks on the door and warning to get out of town, or else. /'Baghdad's Sunni Muslims Fear Repeat of Iraq's Darkest Days'/ http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-turmoil/baghdads-sunni-muslims-fear-repeat-iraqs-darkest-days-n147291
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Did you know Einstein had affairs constantly? Does that invalidate your knowledge of his Theory of Relativity? I think you wanted Maharishi to be some sort of god-like, parental and paternal, authority figure. Then when he turns out to have a personality all his own, all you spiritual kiddies go to pieces, making it your apparent life's work to get back at Dad. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. On 7/7/2014 8:50 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I think there is an aspect of prudishness going on here, an idea that having sex with another human being is somehow low and base and indicative of a less developed human being. It is Puritanical, short sighted and an indoctrination from religions and various spiritual teachings from down the ages. If people would just stop for a second and think about it they might realize they are more brainwashed than they realized. No one can say for sure that climaxing sexually is either a waste of energy, an indicator of Neanderthal-like behaviour or should otherwise disqualify one from having something useful to teach. If MMY was a virgin I would have far more serious questions about his wisdom or his knowledge of life than if he had experienced love or desire or even just the vagina of a woman. It kind of sounds like MJ is JELLOS, or maybe he was just brought up by his Daddy to be a repressed prude or maybe it was his Mother that rejected him. It seems to be very important to MJ - maybe he got dumped by his ex-wife or something, or maybe MJ did the dumping, so he could go to work at the religious school in Iowa. It does seem to be on his mind a lot. Where is Dr. Pete when we really need him? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
On 7/7/2014 6:19 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome I'm not surprised he is using an alias - I would be too if I though someone was actually going to be reading this. I think he likes seeing his name up in lights - it makes him feel like he is somebody, no matter how slight. Go figure. sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
This is my take on all of that: I don't care. Maharishi lived his life and is responsible for it. I live my life, and am responsible for it. I am not responsible for how Maharishi lived his life, or what he did. I learned his technique of TM and TMSP, end of story. I am sorry you and the other sad sacks feel you must continue to whine and complain about all of this. All it does is show me your lack of success with TM, and that, too, is not my issue. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : That's a bullshit excuse you are making for a man who was a fraud on all levels. You make it because you can't stand the idea of anything about TM being the lest bit, well shall we say not 100% life supporting. Einstein never claimed to be a lifelong celibate. Marshy did. And not only did he make that claim into a lie by sleeping with his followers, he told them all to be celibate to make the gals more horny and make sure no other men were going to cut him out of his intended conquests. Had you been an older man, had children sooner, how would you have felt had your daughter wound up being one of Marshy's conquests? My statement was not however limited to his sexual proclivities, it covers all of his deceit and deliberate lie and manipulation of many people, none of whom he gave a shit about. He used people and threw them away. If you can condone that kind of behavior, then I don't think the kind of enlightenment you have achieved through TM is worth much. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Did you know Einstein had affairs constantly? Does that invalidate your knowledge of his Theory of Relativity? I think you wanted Maharishi to be some sort of god-like, parental and paternal, authority figure. Then when he turns out to have a personality all his own, all you spiritual kiddies go to pieces, making it your apparent life's work to get back at Dad. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : This is my take on all of that: I don't care. Maharishi lived his life and is responsible for it. I live my life, and am responsible for it. I am not responsible for how Maharishi lived his life, or what he did. I learned his technique of TM and TMSP, end of story. I am sorry you and the other sad sacks feel you must continue to whine and complain about all of this. All it does is show me your lack of success with TM, and that, too, is not my issue. Here is one thing: Maharishi is dead. No one can shame him or get him to recant or apologize or even explain his supposed behaviour. I like your post on lots of levels. Not because I think people who truly do immoral or violent or horrendous deeds should be allowed to get away with them but because some things are not worth fretting about. Take what you want and leave the rest. Why bother to fume and grind your teeth over past deeds that, in the grand scheme of things, didn't amount to genocide, mass rape or pillaging or the decimation and destruction of the environment? There are so many other people to hunt down and bring to justice but MMY just doesn't seem like one of them. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : That's a bullshit excuse you are making for a man who was a fraud on all levels. You make it because you can't stand the idea of anything about TM being the lest bit, well shall we say not 100% life supporting. Einstein never claimed to be a lifelong celibate. Marshy did. And not only did he make that claim into a lie by sleeping with his followers, he told them all to be celibate to make the gals more horny and make sure no other men were going to cut him out of his intended conquests. Had you been an older man, had children sooner, how would you have felt had your daughter wound up being one of Marshy's conquests? My statement was not however limited to his sexual proclivities, it covers all of his deceit and deliberate lie and manipulation of many people, none of whom he gave a shit about. He used people and threw them away. If you can condone that kind of behavior, then I don't think the kind of enlightenment you have achieved through TM is worth much. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Did you know Einstein had affairs constantly? Does that invalidate your knowledge of his Theory of Relativity? I think you wanted Maharishi to be some sort of god-like, parental and paternal, authority figure. Then when he turns out to have a personality all his own, all you spiritual kiddies go to pieces, making it your apparent life's work to get back at Dad. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
yep - the world I inhabit is a MUCH bigger place than one where I would get all bent out of shape about a public figure, now gone. I thought Ronald Fucking Reagan was a hell of a lot more evil than Maharishi could ever be, and yet, I don't lose any sleep over it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : This is my take on all of that: I don't care. Maharishi lived his life and is responsible for it. I live my life, and am responsible for it. I am not responsible for how Maharishi lived his life, or what he did. I learned his technique of TM and TMSP, end of story. I am sorry you and the other sad sacks feel you must continue to whine and complain about all of this. All it does is show me your lack of success with TM, and that, too, is not my issue. Here is one thing: Maharishi is dead. No one can shame him or get him to recant or apologize or even explain his supposed behaviour. I like your post on lots of levels. Not because I think people who truly do immoral or violent or horrendous deeds should be allowed to get away with them but because some things are not worth fretting about. Take what you want and leave the rest. Why bother to fume and grind your teeth over past deeds that, in the grand scheme of things, didn't amount to genocide, mass rape or pillaging or the decimation and destruction of the environment? There are so many other people to hunt down and bring to justice but MMY just doesn't seem like one of them. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : That's a bullshit excuse you are making for a man who was a fraud on all levels. You make it because you can't stand the idea of anything about TM being the lest bit, well shall we say not 100% life supporting. Einstein never claimed to be a lifelong celibate. Marshy did. And not only did he make that claim into a lie by sleeping with his followers, he told them all to be celibate to make the gals more horny and make sure no other men were going to cut him out of his intended conquests. Had you been an older man, had children sooner, how would you have felt had your daughter wound up being one of Marshy's conquests? My statement was not however limited to his sexual proclivities, it covers all of his deceit and deliberate lie and manipulation of many people, none of whom he gave a shit about. He used people and threw them away. If you can condone that kind of behavior, then I don't think the kind of enlightenment you have achieved through TM is worth much. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Did you know Einstein had affairs constantly? Does that invalidate your knowledge of his Theory of Relativity? I think you wanted Maharishi to be some sort of god-like, parental and paternal, authority figure. Then when he turns out to have a personality all his own, all you spiritual kiddies go to pieces, making it your apparent life's work to get back at Dad. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
867-5309, isn't it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Can you dial into the transcendent without meditating? On 07/07/2014 01:10 PM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: I'm not sure exactly what success with TM means. I used my TM mantra and its advanced forms. I used them alone and in groups. I experienced what was referred to as clear transcending, and after a bit of time I felt bliss and silence, sometimes deep silence. At times I felt during the practice of TM rolling waves of bliss on the ocean of bliss, I had many experiences of witnessing during activity, meditation, dreams and with less frequency, sleep. After a couple years I had MANY experiences of God Consciousness, many, many. Some clear as a bell experiences of ritam - having a thought and seeing the object, person, place etc thought of as clear as watching a movie of it/them. And some experiences of Unity, beginning with the odd one of experiencing total with the sound of a fat TM teacher dragging a chair across an indoor/outdoor carpet in a North Carolina hotel as she was exiting the staff group meditation. The fact that I refuse to do a meditation that was taught by someone with no integrity or honesty is a sign of my own integrity. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@...[FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress This is my take on all of that: I don't care. Maharishi lived his life and is responsible for it. I live my life, and am responsible for it. I am not responsible for how Maharishi lived his life, or what he did. I learned his technique of TM and TMSP, end of story. I am sorry you and the other sad sacks feel you must continue to whine and complain about all of this. All it does is show me your lack of success with TM, and that, too, is not my issue. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : That's a bullshit excuse you are making for a man who was a fraud on all levels. You make it because you can't stand the idea of anything about TM being the lest bit, well shall we say not 100% life supporting. Einstein never claimed to be a lifelong celibate. Marshy did. And not only did he make that claim into a lie by sleeping with his followers, he told them all to be celibate to make the gals more horny and make sure no other men were going to cut him out of his intended conquests. Had you been an older man, had children sooner, how would you have felt had your daughter wound up being one of Marshy's conquests? My statement was not however limited to his sexual proclivities, it covers all of his deceit and deliberate lie and manipulation of many people, none of whom he gave a shit about. He used people and threw them away. If you can condone that kind of behavior, then I don't think the kind of enlightenment you have achieved through TM is worth much. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Did you know Einstein had affairs constantly? Does that invalidate your knowledge of his Theory of Relativity? I think you wanted Maharishi to be some sort of god-like, parental and paternal, authority figure. Then when he turns out to have a personality all his own, all you spiritual kiddies go to pieces, making it your apparent life's work to get back at Dad. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : In fact, Marshy could easily be described as a spiritual degenerate, rather than an example of spiritual regeneration. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ? Yes, MJ's evidently apostate and infamous TM defamer on the internet too. It is just sinful anti-science what MJ does working the internet the way he does. -Buck in the Dome sharelong60 writes: MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? on Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
I definitely had such a preconception, not necessarily visual hallucinations, but an imaginary reality, nonetheless. What is really curious is that the world does become a strange, rewarding, and fascinating place, although nothing much changes. Like adjusting binoculars, it doesn't take much of an adjustment, to bring everything into focus. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : Good, then that is an experience of enlightenment. Now there will be those here who think that enlightenment is much more flashy, like the acid trips they used to do. Lots of lights, celestial sight, etc. Boy would that be hard to deal with and the material world at the same time! :-D On 07/07/2014 05:16 PM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Yes From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Can you dial into the transcendent without meditating? On 07/07/2014 01:10 PM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: I'm not sure exactly what success with TM means. I used my TM mantra and its advanced forms. I used them alone and in groups. I experienced what was referred to as clear transcending, and after a bit of time I felt bliss and silence, sometimes deep silence. At times I felt during the practice of TM rolling waves of bliss on the ocean of bliss, I had many experiences of witnessing during activity, meditation, dreams and with less frequency, sleep. After a couple years I had MANY experiences of God Consciousness, many, many. Some clear as a bell experiences of ritam - having a thought and seeing the object, person, place etc thought of as clear as watching a movie of it/them. And some experiences of Unity, beginning with the odd one of experiencing total with the sound of a fat TM teacher dragging a chair across an indoor/outdoor carpet in a North Carolina hotel as she was exiting the staff group meditation. The fact that I refuse to do a meditation that was taught by someone with no integrity or honesty is a sign of my own integrity. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress This is my take on all of that: I don't care. Maharishi lived his life and is responsible for it. I live my life, and am responsible for it. I am not responsible for how Maharishi lived his life, or what he did. I learned his technique of TM and TMSP, end of story. I am sorry you and the other sad sacks feel you must continue to whine and complain about all of this. All it does is show me your lack of success with TM, and that, too, is not my issue. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : That's a bullshit excuse you are making for a man who was a fraud on all levels. You make it because you can't stand the idea of anything about TM being the lest bit, well shall we say not 100% life supporting. Einsteinnever claimed to be a lifelong celibate. Marshy did. And not only did he make that claim into a lie by sleeping with his followers, he told them all to be celibate to make the gals more horny and make sure no other men were going to cut him out of his intended conquests. Had you been an older man, had children sooner, how would you have felt had your daughter wound up being one of Marshy's conquests? Mystatement was not however limited to his sexual proclivities, it covers all of his deceit and deliberate lie and manipulation of many people, none of whom he gave a shit about. He used people and threw them away. If you can condone that kind of behavior, then I don't think the kind of enlightenment you have achieved through TM is worth much. From: fleetwood_macncheese@...[FairfieldLife] mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@...[FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Did you know Einstein had affairs constantly? Does that invalidate your knowledge of his Theory of Relativity? I think you wanted Maharishi to be some sort of god-like, parental and paternal, authority figure. Then when he turns out to have a personality all his own, all you spiritual kiddies go to pieces, making it your apparent
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Rick's original vision for FFL was that this place should be a salon for ideas. Not a saloon. I agree. MJ should just turn the other cheek and yield to the already enlightened here. But then MJ might just get it after enough thrashing, However to avoid conflict with the Yahoo-groups guidelines for civil discourse, where it gets really personal it would be kinder to the whole list if people should just take their personal stuff out to the back alley, off list between themselves, -Buck in the Dome In someone's grill? !!! Fists-cuffs? !FFL! !Moderators!, Keep an eye on this thread! awoelflebater writes: I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Who cares if I agree or disagree? If I were you, I would find some way to get up in someone's grill, and resolve this. I've done such things before, and it sure beats letting all us disinterested folks know how upset you are. PS I am on your side, wrt righting any wrongs done to you, but you are not handling this effectively, at all. A big waste of time and energy, imo. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : its not just about the sexual proclivities - in fact that is the least of it in my opinion - its the whole thing, but we've been over all that before. You and I are never gonna agree about it so that's just how it is.
[FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires more activity than mindfulness, if you want to get the mantra going. In other words, TM has nothing to do, and mindfulness is just that state of nothing to do. TM is better at 'controlling' a restless mind. My mind is no longer restless, and so the TM advantage in this situation is considerably diminished, like, to zero. So in this case mindfulness is really no longer a technique at all, and TM is superfluous. mjackson74 responds: Beautifully expressed! Now let's see if the TM aficionados will revile you for saying so. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress When examined for what it is, so called mindfulness, is not a mechanism for reliable transcendence, at all - more like meandering around on the surface of the mind. Something that clearly evolved, as a poor second best, after the knowledge of TM was lost. Those championing it have had very few, or no sustained, deep experiences of transcending, otherwise they would see it for the shallow practice that it is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, while the study in question by Rosenthal and company was tiny and had no control group, it was still a quite impressive finding. My point isn't so much that mindfulness doesn't have an effect on PTSD, but that the media hypes it as being very strong, while ignoring the evidence that TM's effects on stress are demonstrably far stronger. Stress isn't the only thing going on in the world, and isn't the only cause of mental and physical problems, and mindfulness' effects on the brain are quite different than TM's, so it is entirely possible that mindfulness will prove to be more therapeutic about many things in specific people than TM is. But on raw measures of stress-redection, my expectation is that TM will always prove superior, just because that is all TM is, really: Just stress reduction. Maharishi's description that the mind is allowed to wander in the direction of greater happiness, which also happens to be the state of least excitation of the brain, is very accurate, according to all the research. That's an important thing. It facilitates healing in nearly all situations. I saw nearly all because there are people who become more anxious, the more relaxed they get, and it may be due to a different mechanism than Maharishi's stress release model that he came up with to describe the cycle of activity during TM, and no doubt there are other exceptions. But for most people, TM's stress-reduction is a Very Good Thing that can help heal nearly any condition.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires more activity than mindfulness, if you want to get the mantra going. In other words, TM has nothing to do, and mindfulness is just that state of nothing to do. TM is better at 'controlling' a restless mind. My mind is no longer restless, and so the TM advantage in this situation is considerably diminished, like, to zero. So in this case mindfulness is really no longer a technique at all, and TM is superfluous. mjackson74 responds: Beautifully expressed! Now let's see if the TM aficionados will revile you for saying so. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress When examined for what it is, so called mindfulness, is not a mechanism for reliable transcendence, at all - more like meandering around on the surface of the mind. Something that clearly evolved, as a poor second best, after the knowledge of TM was lost. Those championing it have had very few, or no sustained, deep experiences of transcending, otherwise they would see it for the shallow practice that it is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, while the study in question by Rosenthal and company was tiny and had no control group, it was still a quite impressive finding. My point isn't so much that mindfulness doesn't have an effect on PTSD, but that the media hypes it as being very strong, while ignoring the evidence that TM's effects on stress are demonstrably far stronger. Stress isn't the only thing going on in the world, and isn't the only cause of mental and physical problems, and mindfulness' effects on the brain are quite different than TM's, so it is entirely possible that mindfulness will prove to be more therapeutic about many things in specific people than TM is. But on raw measures of stress-redection, my expectation is that TM will always prove superior, just because that is all TM is, really: Just stress reduction. Maharishi's description that the mind is allowed to wander in the direction of greater happiness, which also happens to be the state of least excitation of the brain, is very accurate, according to all the research. That's an important thing. It facilitates healing in nearly all situations. I saw nearly all because there are people who become more anxious
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? On Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires more activity than mindfulness, if you want to get the mantra going. In other words, TM has nothing to do, and mindfulness is just that state of nothing to do. TM is better at 'controlling' a restless mind. My mind is no longer restless, and so the TM advantage in this situation is considerably diminished, like, to zero. So in this case mindfulness is really no longer a technique at all, and TM is superfluous. mjackson74 responds: Beautifully expressed! Now let's see if the TM aficionados will revile you for saying so. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress When examined for what it is, so called mindfulness, is not a mechanism for reliable transcendence, at all - more like meandering around on the surface of the mind. Something that clearly evolved, as a poor second best, after the knowledge of TM was lost. Those championing it have had very few, or no sustained, deep experiences of transcending, otherwise they would see it for the shallow practice that it is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, while the study in question by Rosenthal and company was tiny and had no control group, it was still a quite impressive finding. My point isn't so much that mindfulness doesn't have an effect on PTSD, but that the media hypes it as being very strong, while ignoring the evidence that TM's effects on stress are demonstrably far stronger. Stress isn't the only thing going on in the world, and isn't the only cause of mental and physical problems, and mindfulness' effects on the brain are quite different than TM's, so it is entirely possible that mindfulness will prove to be more therapeutic about many things in specific people than TM is. But on raw measures of stress-redection, my expectation is that TM will always prove superior, just because that is all TM is, really: Just stress reduction. Maharishi's description that the mind is allowed to wander in the direction of greater happiness, which also happens to be the state of least excitation of the brain, is very
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Yeah, real proud of that one! I had to look up the definition to make sure - I like all the synonyms here - I'm sure Buck and Nabby think of me as all these and more: dissenter, defector, deserter, traitor, backslider, turncoat; From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too? On Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:32 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires more activity than mindfulness, if you want to get the mantra going. In other words, TM has nothing to do, and mindfulness is just that state of nothing to do. TM is better at 'controlling' a restless mind. My mind is no longer restless, and so the TM advantage in this situation is considerably diminished, like, to zero. So in this case mindfulness is really no longer a technique at all, and TM is superfluous. mjackson74 responds: Beautifully expressed! Now let's see if the TM aficionados will revile you for saying so. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress When examined for what it is, so called mindfulness, is not a mechanism for reliable transcendence, at all - more like meandering around on the surface of the mind. Something that clearly evolved, as a poor second best, after the knowledge of TM was lost. Those championing it have had very few, or no sustained, deep experiences of transcending, otherwise they would see it for the shallow practice that it is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, while the study in question by Rosenthal and company was tiny and had no control group, it was still a quite impressive finding. My point isn't so much that mindfulness doesn't have an effect on PTSD, but that the media hypes it as being very strong, while ignoring the evidence that TM's effects on stress are demonstrably far stronger. Stress isn't the only thing going on in the world, and isn't the only cause of mental and physical problems
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Congratulations! I am proud to be enlightened, as a result of my ongoing TM practice. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I am proud to be a TM Quitter and Neganaut. From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Dear Anartaxius, 'No mantra and no thought' is certainly a correct experience in transcending meditation: see list of correct experience of meditation enumerated in second nite of TM checking. Take it easy and take it as it comes. Working on those knots feeling the body is a correct experience of transcending meditation too, see way down in the TM checking notes. You are okay and still one with us in TM, transcending meditation. TM is a great way to learn to come in to Mindlessness-Mindfulness of Pure Being. Sounds like you got a good start. Just like MJ got a good start too in meditation. MJ may be an apostate but I don't see you as being a quitter by what you are saying here. -Buck From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress Mindfulness assumes that 'reality' is ever present at all levels rather than something you have to hunt for or contact. In other words, it is based on the end game of enlightenment. I believe Jim mentioned this was a cart before the horse approach once. In some sense I think that is correct, but my observation of those who practised mindfulness experience just as much or more unstressing as TM meditators, and has just as deep insights into experience as TM meditators. They did not seem however as blissful as TM meditators or made mood-making attempts to pretendm everything was just fine, they did not have the illusion that experience was always going to be just peachy, there are hard knots to get out of the system and things one must face, and you might as well get it over with as fast as possible. I actually find mindfulness meditation more effective now than TM, though that was not always the case. TM seems pretty much at the end of the line for me, but still is useful at times. I think this is a natural progression. However with so many years practise, it is likely that TM still slides in from time to time. I find mindfulness rather blissful these days, and TM often feels 'intrusive' because it requires more activity than mindfulness, if you want to get the mantra going. In other words, TM has nothing to do, and mindfulness is just that state of nothing to do. TM is better at 'controlling' a restless mind. My mind is no longer restless, and so the TM advantage in this situation is considerably diminished, like, to zero. So in this case mindfulness is really no longer a technique at all, and TM is superfluous. mjackson74 responds: Beautifully expressed! Now let's see if the TM aficionados will revile you for saying so. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: YAS: Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress When examined for what it is, so called mindfulness, is not a mechanism for reliable transcendence, at all - more like meandering around on the surface of the mind. Something that clearly evolved, as a poor second best, after the knowledge of TM was lost. Those championing it have had very few, or no sustained, deep experiences of transcending, otherwise they would see it for the shallow practice that it is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, while the study in question by Rosenthal and company was tiny and had no control group, it was still a quite impressive finding. My point isn't so much that mindfulness doesn't have an effect on PTSD, but that the media hypes it as being very strong, while ignoring the evidence that TM's effects on stress are demonstrably far stronger. Stress isn't the only thing going on in the world, and isn't the only cause of mental and physical problems, and mindfulness' effects on the brain are quite different than TM's, so it is entirely possible that mindfulness will prove to be more therapeutic about many things in specific people than TM is. But on raw measures of stress-redection, my expectation is that TM will always prove superior, just because that is all TM is, really: Just stress reduction. Maharishi's description that the mind is allowed to wander in the direction of greater happiness, which also happens to be the state of least excitation of the brain, is very accurate, according to all the research. That's an important thing. It facilitates healing
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
On 7/6/2014 7:11 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Yeah, real proud of that one! I had to look up the definition to make sure - I like all the synonyms here - I'm sure Buck and Nabby think of me as all these and more: dissenter https://www.google.com/search?safe=offbiw=1201bih=519q=define+dissentersa=Xei=tDy5U7P2EJKdqAb0xoKACAsqi=2ved=0CB4Q_SowAA, defector, deserter https://www.google.com/search?safe=offbiw=1201bih=519q=define+desertersa=Xei=tDy5U7P2EJKdqAb0xoKACAsqi=2ved=0CB8Q_SowAA, traitor https://www.google.com/search?safe=offbiw=1201bih=519q=define+traitorsa=Xei=tDy5U7P2EJKdqAb0xoKACAsqi=2ved=0CCAQ_SowAA, backslider, turncoat https://www.google.com/search?safe=offbiw=1201bih=519q=define+turncoatsa=Xei=tDy5U7P2EJKdqAb0xoKACAsqi=2ved=0CCEQ_SowAA; You left out part-time kungfuer.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress
Apostate's original meaning is one who abandons his/her religion. This seems to be the sense in which Buck uses the term. It has acquired over time the connotations Michael posted below. Highly pejorative terms seem to develop in religion to ward off potential or actual defectors as a kind of social stigma, a way of controlling a person's sense of social standing - pretty effective against people with low self esteem. It is necessary because the beliefs themselves cannot stand up to intellectual scrutiny, so coercion beyond production of facts and reason is required to maintain a manipulative and dominating grip on the victim, er, follower. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Yeah, real proud of that one! I had to look up the definition to make sure - I like all the synonyms here - I'm sure Buck and Nabby think of me as all these and more: dissenter https://www.google.com/search?safe=offbiw=1201bih=519q=define+dissentersa=Xei=tDy5U7P2EJKdqAb0xoKACAsqi=2ved=0CB4Q_SowAA, defector, deserter https://www.google.com/search?safe=offbiw=1201bih=519q=define+desertersa=Xei=tDy5U7P2EJKdqAb0xoKACAsqi=2ved=0CB8Q_SowAA, traitor https://www.google.com/search?safe=offbiw=1201bih=519q=define+traitorsa=Xei=tDy5U7P2EJKdqAb0xoKACAsqi=2ved=0CCAQ_SowAA, backslider, turncoat https://www.google.com/search?safe=offbiw=1201bih=519q=define+turncoatsa=Xei=tDy5U7P2EJKdqAb0xoKACAsqi=2ved=0CCEQ_SowAA; From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meditating has instant effect on reducing stress MJ, you left out Apostate. Proud to be that too?
