[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote: Dunno if any of you are interested but when I saw this blog on a TM study and saw one of the comments on it, I decided to post a reply - this brought forth a heated response from someone that I suspect works for the TM folks - so check it out if you want some fun. http://cardiobrief.org/2012/11/13/mysterious-disappearing-paper-finally-reappears-in-another-journal/ Hilarious. I love how the TB responds when you pin something down about TM, all of a sudden it was never meant to cure anything, never meant to make you enlightened and it was *you* who didn't understand it if you aren't happy with what it didn't do. It's like these people forget they ever read any of Marshy's books or heard a lecture. On another level, all of this posturing and arguing and (essentially) self image repair on the blog is the perfect counterpart to what's happening on this forum. What ELSE would you call the desperate attempts on both sides of the Who is really the stalker here? silliness? From his side, Robin is so clearly and heavily invested in trying to get everyone to see him the way he sees himself that I'm expecting him to hire a cyberhelicopter and spam FFL with leaflets any day now. I see Share as only slightly less invested, and *just* as ego-involved in trying to prove that her view is right and that she is the victim. The groupies on both sides...just more ego-posturing to claim that one side is right or more right than another. It all adds up to a shitload of people who feel a need to constantly (and aggressively) defend what they believe, and defend the images that they push out about themselves...almost as if they can no longer distinguish that from what they are. Almost as if. :-) TM is a minor meditation technique that most people on this planet have never heard of and never will; what the general public thinks about it Simply Doesn't Matter because TM Simply Doesn't Matter. It doesn't have a chance competing in a health care marketplace against techniques that are more reasonably priced and that don't carry the baggage that TM does. It's the same IMO with all of the egos involved in all this posturing and arguing. Almost no one on the planet other than a couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum will ever know anything about the people themselves, or ever care to. It's a bunch of nobodies arguing with other nobodies about their supposed somebodyness. People have tried to demonize drive bys on this forum, as if simply stating one's opinion and moving on is a Bad Thing. I suspect it's a more highly evolved thing. You just say what you think and stay out of the shit. Let those who enjoy wallowing in shit do that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
yoohoo! Weren't you praying yesterday that the Robin topics would disappear?! I guess you were really praying that you could have the last word on it. Whoops! You might have to post again I guess. And do you include yourself in what you called the couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum?! And do you think that you have done what you call the more evolved action of simply stating your opinion and then moving on? Do you think you have done that with regards to the TMO? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote: It's the same IMO with all of the egos involved in all this posturing and arguing. Almost no one on the planet other than a couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum will ever know anything about the people themselves, or ever care to. It's a bunch of nobodies arguing with other nobodies about their supposed somebodyness. People have tried to demonize drive bys on this forum, as if simply stating one's opinion and moving on is a Bad Thing. I suspect it's a more highly evolved thing. You just say what you think and stay out of the shit. Let those who enjoy wallowing in shit do that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
I think he is talking about certain other people Share and not himself. On an impersonal level, he is right. --- Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: yoohoo! Weren't you praying yesterday that the Robin topics would disappear?! I guess you were really praying that you could have the last word on it. Whoops! You might have to post again I guess. And do you include yourself in what you called the couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum?! And do you think that you have done what you call the more evolved action of simply stating your opinion and then moving on? Do you think you have done that with regards to the TMO? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:53 AM It's the same IMO with all of the egos involved in all this posturing and arguing. Almost no one on the planet other than a couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum will ever know anything about the people themselves, or ever care to. It's a bunch of nobodies arguing with other nobodies about their supposed somebodyness. People have tried to demonize drive bys on this forum, as if simply stating one's opinion and moving on is a Bad Thing. I suspect it's a more highly evolved thing. You just say what you think and stay out of the shit. Let those who enjoy wallowing in shit do that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Whether you and other TM apologists like it or not, if you want the general public to dote on TM like you do, you are going to have to deal with the baggage the Movement has generated for nearly 60 years - you can't expect this info to be taken in a vacuum - as in pay attention to what we tell you to pay attention to, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I don't rant Even compared to the colourful persona on this forum you are unusually full of your self and obsessed with your own unstressing. - I want people to have the full picture, Which you are not even close to be able to give. Have a reality check, or even better; have your meditation checked.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
Michael, I read the website and your comments and I thought, like virtually all of your writing here at FFL, that you state you case and your experiences with utmost clarity and lack of reaction. I appreciate who you are and where you're coming from to the extent that I can without really knowing you. Carry on, you are simply speaking of your perceptions and conclusions and experiences in a way which I find intelligent and worth considering. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Whether you and other TM apologists like it or not, if you want the general public to dote on TM like you do, you are going to have to deal with the baggage the Movement has generated for nearly 60 years - you can't expect this info to be taken in a vacuum - as in pay attention to what we tell you to pay attention to, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I don't rant - I want people to have the full picture, not the limited information the TM Movement puts out - then people can make their own decision - but people are entitled to full disclosure, full information and you know damn good and well full disclosure is one thing the TM folks are not willing to give most of the time. When you deal with esoteric notions there is the notion of karma or unresolved energy that people create individually and collectively - if you want more people to do TM you are going to have to deal openly and forthrightly with the energy of unpleasant and unconscionable behavior the TM Movement has created and perpetuated. Even those who are still TM boosters have story after story of TM abuse. I spoke last night to an old friend who was on one of the early Governor training courses and who was on one of the teams of Governors who taught the TM Sidhi Prep courses around 1977 or 1978 - she nearly adores what she received from Maharishi, yet said her time on the Sidhi Prep teams was one of the worst of her life due to the way the Council in New York who was in charge of the teams treated her and the other ladies on her team, and other teams she knew of. Karma is karma but you seem to think if its created in the service of Maharishi it don't stick to you. What does that have to do with scientific research? The credibility of the organization that does this research has been impaired due to its behavior, not to mention the fact that to have most of the TM research done by TM'ers always with positive results is like having Merck doing all its own research on its own drugs, or as we say here in the South, its like having the coyotes guarding the hen house. From: feste37 feste37@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 10:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. Â Your comments are worthless because they are not about the subject of the article. You just wanted to go on an anti-TM rant, throwing in everything you could think of. The other posters dealt with you quite kindly, which is more than you deserved. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote: Dunno if any of you are interested but when I saw this blog on a TM study and saw one of the comments on it, I decided to post a reply - this brought forth a heated response from someone that I suspect works for the TM folks - so check it out if you want some fun. http://cardiobrief.org/2012/11/13/mysterious-disappearing-paper-finally-reappears-in-another-journal/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
mjackson74: Karma is karma but you seem to think if its created in the service of Maharishi it don't stick to you... It sounds to me like you've had a pretty normal experience of going off to college for a year or two. Does anyone ever get over disagreement with teachers and dealing with admin? You want stories about college? My four years at UT would make your two years at MIU look like a mountain compared to an anthill. LoL! So, let's break it down: If you had paid attention to your history teacher, you would know that the notion of 'karma' comes from original Buddhism in India, during the fifth century B.C. Karma is one of the major beliefs of Qigong in China and Japan. The historical Buddha taught 'Causation', termed 'karma' in Sanskrit. Briefly stated, karma is the theory of 'action', a force that causes the entire cosmic cycle of cause and effect. This eternal cycle of 'samsara' is an endless round of becoming. The idea that there is cause and effect in the material world was first enunciated by the sramanas. The Buddha Shakya the Muni then propounded the idea of moral reciprocity, a new theory of Causation. A concept of karma (along with samsara and moksha) may originate in the shramana tradition of which Buddhism and Jainism are continuations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma Are we agreed so far? According to Buddhist teaching, 'karma' has nothing to do with a persons future rebirths. Karma is just the law of cause and effect and everything is subject to this law, from a highly evolved person down to a single blade of grass - there are no exceptions. If there were any kinds of left-over karmic actions in future births these would have to be controlled by the Ishvara, the inner controller. But Buddhism has no such controller - so karma is just Causation, which is the central philosophy of Mahayana Buddhism. In order for a person to reap the result of his or her actions in the past, there would have to be a reincarnating soul-monad. But the historical Buddha did not ascribe to this idea. According to Shakya the Muni, a person gets the karma of their actions in this life - there is rebirth, but not a rebirth of a soul-monad. So, there would be no individual to reap the effects of past karma. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: I think he is talking about certain other people Share and not himself. Just to be clear, I definitely include myself in the list of lamos who read this forum. :-) The only excuse I can come up with for it is that like Bhairitu I do it mainly for entertainment; his characterization of this place as the Funny Farm Lounge has never been more accurate than in recent days. Then again, I also admit to occasionally watching *other* soap operas, such as the popular American TV show Revenge. I find that they give me insights into the mass mindset of Americans, and the silly things they obsess over. In particular, if Share is wondering whether I consider her as much of an attention-seeking Drama Queen as the others participating in embarrassing ego-dance, my answer is an unqualified Yes. She's doing as much as anyone else to perpetuate it. In my experience, nothing erodes a person's character or reputation more quickly and effectively than constantly feeling the need to defend it. On an impersonal level, he is right. --- Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: yoohoo! Weren't you praying yesterday that the Robin topics would disappear?! I guess you were really praying that you could have the last word on it. Whoops! You might have to post again I guess. And do you include yourself in what you called the couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum?! And do you think that you have done what you call the more evolved action of simply stating your opinion and then moving on? Do you think you have done that with regards to the TMO? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:53 AM It's the same IMO with all of the egos involved in all this posturing and arguing. Almost no one on the planet other than a couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum will ever know anything about the people themselves, or ever care to. It's a bunch of nobodies arguing with other nobodies about their supposed somebodyness. People have tried to demonize drive bys on this forum, as if simply stating one's opinion and moving on is a Bad Thing. I suspect it's a more highly evolved thing. You just say what you think and stay out of the shit. Let those who enjoy wallowing in shit do that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
feste37: Your comments are worthless because they are not about the subject of the article. You just wanted to go on an anti-TM rant, throwing in everything you could think of. The other posters dealt with you quite kindly, which is more than you deserved... So, I guess if the TM studies have been discredited, then we should be able to read the rebuttals *in the journals that originally published them*. So, why can't mjackson just cite those journals, or links to them, so we can read the studies that debunk TM practice. From what I've read, most of the 360 scientific studies on TM were done by scientists not affiliated with the TMO. Meditation labs have sprung up at universities across the country--places such as Yale, UCLA, University of Oregon, UW Madison and Maharishi University of Management. Their contributions have helped researchers identify three major categories of techniques, classified according to EEG measurements and the type of cognitive processing or mental activity involved... 'How Meditation Techniques Compare -- Zen, Mindfulness Transcendental Meditation and more' Huffpost - Healthy Living http://tinyurl.com/2ayg3q4 mjackson74: Dunno if any of you are interested but when I saw this blog on a TM study and saw one of the comments on it, I decided to post a reply - this brought forth a heated response from someone that I suspect works for the TM folks - so check it out if you want some fun. http://cardiobrief.org/2012/11/13/mysterious-disappearing-paper-finally-reappears-in-another-journal/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
Come on, Barry. Answer Share's questions. We really want to know what makes you tick. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: yoohoo! Weren't you praying yesterday that the Robin topics would disappear?! I guess you were really praying that you could have the last word on it. Whoops! You might have to post again I guess. And do you include yourself in what you called the couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum?! And do you think that you have done what you call the more evolved action of simply stating your opinion and then moving on? Do you think you have done that with regards to the TMO? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote: It's the same IMO with all of the egos involved in all this posturing and arguing. Almost no one on the planet other than a couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum will ever know anything about the people themselves, or ever care to. It's a bunch of nobodies arguing with other nobodies about their supposed somebodyness. People have tried to demonize drive bys on this forum, as if simply stating one's opinion and moving on is a Bad Thing. I suspect it's a more highly evolved thing. You just say what you think and stay out of the shit. Let those who enjoy wallowing in shit do that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
I think he is talking about certain other people Share and not himself. turquoiseb: Just to be clear, I definitely include myself in the list of lamos who read this forum. :-) The only excuse I can come up with for it is that like Bhairitu I do it mainly for entertainment; his characterization of this place as the Funny Farm Lounge has never been more accurate than in recent days. Then again, I also admit to occasionally watching *other* soap operas, such as the popular American TV show Revenge. I find that they give me insights into the mass mindset of Americans, and the silly things they obsess over. In particular, if Share is wondering whether I consider her as much of an attention-seeking Drama Queen as the others participating in embarrassing ego-dance, my answer is an unqualified Yes. She's doing as much as anyone else to perpetuate it. In my experience, nothing erodes a person's character or reputation more quickly and effectively than constantly feeling the need to defend it. So, that's your defense? LoL! My wager is that Turq has never read a single scientific, double-blind study on the effects of practicing basic TM. Any takers? Apparently Turq doesn't even realize that several studies, using 'placebos', Turq's favorite theory, have been performed by Herbert Benson, M.D. Now that's funny!!! Read more: 'The Relaxation Response' By Herbert Benson Harper, 1975 On an impersonal level, he is right. --- Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: yoohoo! Weren't you praying yesterday that the Robin topics would disappear?! I guess you were really praying that you could have the last word on it. Whoops! You might have to post again I guess. And do you include yourself in what you called the couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum?! And do you think that you have done what you call the more evolved action of simply stating your opinion and then moving on? Do you think you have done that with regards to the TMO? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:53 AM It's the same IMO with all of the egos involved in all this posturing and arguing. Almost no one on the planet other than a couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum will ever know anything about the people themselves, or ever care to. It's a bunch of nobodies arguing with other nobodies about their supposed somebodyness. People have tried to demonize drive bys on this forum, as if simply stating one's opinion and moving on is a Bad Thing. I suspect it's a more highly evolved thing. You just say what you think and stay out of the shit. Let those who enjoy wallowing in shit do that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
Oh Ansel Adams of doggie elimination, go take another photo of your pup's bottom as it pees upside down on a tree. Can you say more about feeling embarrassed? Or your experience of feeling the need to defend yourself? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: I think he is talking about certain other people Share and not himself. Just to be clear, I definitely include myself in the list of lamos who read this forum. :-) The only excuse I can come up with for it is that like Bhairitu I do it mainly for entertainment; his characterization of this place as the Funny Farm Lounge has never been more accurate than in recent days. Then again, I also admit to occasionally watching *other* soap operas, such as the popular American TV show Revenge. I find that they give me insights into the mass mindset of Americans, and the silly things they obsess over. In particular, if Share is wondering whether I consider her as much of an attention-seeking Drama Queen as the others participating in embarrassing ego-dance, my answer is an unqualified Yes. She's doing as much as anyone else to perpetuate it. In my experience, nothing erodes a person's character or reputation more quickly and effectively than constantly feeling the need to defend it. On an impersonal level, he is right. --- Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: yoohoo! Weren't you praying yesterday that the Robin topics would disappear?! I guess you were really praying that you could have the last word on it. Whoops! You might have to post again I guess. And do you include yourself in what you called the couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum?! And do you think that you have done what you call the more evolved action of simply stating your opinion and then moving on? Do you think you have done that with regards to the TMO? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:53 AM It's the same IMO with all of the egos involved in all this posturing and arguing. Almost no one on the planet other than a couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum will ever know anything about the people themselves, or ever care to. It's a bunch of nobodies arguing with other nobodies about their supposed somebodyness. People have tried to demonize drive bys on this forum, as if simply stating one's opinion and moving on is a Bad Thing. I suspect it's a more highly evolved thing. You just say what you think and stay out of the shit. Let those who enjoy wallowing in shit do that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
You sure do love the balls - Tom and Jeanne that is - Jeanne is the author of the article you quote - she and her hubby Tom are the governors for the Carolinas - so what do you expect she is gonna write? From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. feste37: Your comments are worthless because they are not about the subject of the article. You just wanted to go on an anti-TM rant, throwing in everything you could think of. The other posters dealt with you quite kindly, which is more than you deserved... So, I guess if the TM studies have been discredited, then we should be able to read the rebuttals *in the journals that originally published them*. So, why can't mjackson just cite those journals, or links to them, so we can read the studies that debunk TM practice. From what I've read, most of the 360 scientific studies on TM were done by scientists not affiliated with the TMO. Meditation labs have sprung up at universities across the country--places such as Yale, UCLA, University of Oregon, UW Madison and Maharishi University of Management. Their contributions have helped researchers identify three major categories of techniques, classified according to EEG measurements and the type of cognitive processing or mental activity involved... 'How Meditation Techniques Compare -- Zen, Mindfulness Transcendental Meditation and more' Huffpost - Healthy Living http://tinyurl.com/2ayg3q4 mjackson74: Dunno if any of you are interested but when I saw this blog on a TM study and saw one of the comments on it, I decided to post a reply - this brought forth a heated response from someone that I suspect works for the TM folks - so check it out if you want some fun. http://cardiobrief.org/2012/11/13/mysterious-disappearing-paper-finally-reappears-in-another-journal/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
Thanks I appreciate your saying this. I just like honesty, that's all - if the TMO came clean owned up to all the things the things they do, openly and honestly, I wouldn't have a word to say. From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. Michael, I read the website and your comments and I thought, like virtually all of your writing here at FFL, that you state you case and your experiences with utmost clarity and lack of reaction. I appreciate who you are and where you're coming from to the extent that I can without really knowing you. Carry on, you are simply speaking of your perceptions and conclusions and experiences in a way which I find intelligent and worth considering. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Whether you and other TM apologists like it or not, if you want the general public to dote on TM like you do, you are going to have to deal with the baggage the Movement has generated for nearly 60 years - you can't expect this info to be taken in a vacuum - as in pay attention to what we tell you to pay attention to, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I don't rant - I want people to have the full picture, not the limited information the TM Movement puts out - then people can make their own decision - but people are entitled to full disclosure, full information and you know damn good and well full disclosure is one thing the TM folks are not willing to give most of the time. When you deal with esoteric notions there is the notion of karma or unresolved energy that people create individually and collectively - if you want more people to do TM you are going to have to deal openly and forthrightly with the energy of unpleasant and unconscionable behavior the TM Movement has created and perpetuated. Even those who are still TM boosters have story after story of TM abuse. I spoke last night to an old friend who was on one of the early Governor training courses and who was on one of the teams of Governors who taught the TM Sidhi Prep courses around 1977 or 1978 - she nearly adores what she received from Maharishi, yet said her time on the Sidhi Prep teams was one of the worst of her life due to the way the Council in New York who was in charge of the teams treated her and the other ladies on her team, and other teams she knew of. Karma is karma but you seem to think if its created in the service of Maharishi it don't stick to you. What does that have to do with scientific research? The credibility of the organization that does this research has been impaired due to its behavior, not to mention the fact that to have most of the TM research done by TM'ers always with positive results is like having Merck doing all its own research on its own drugs, or as we say here in the South, its like having the coyotes guarding the hen house. From: feste37 feste37@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 10:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. Â Your comments are worthless because they are not about the subject of the article. You just wanted to go on an anti-TM rant, throwing in everything you could think of. The other posters dealt with you quite kindly, which is more than you deserved. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote: Dunno if any of you are interested but when I saw this blog on a TM study and saw one of the comments on it, I decided to post a reply - this brought forth a heated response from someone that I suspect works for the TM folks - so check it out if you want some fun. http://cardiobrief.org/2012/11/13/mysterious-disappearing-paper-finally-reappears-in-another-journal/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
Having read your comments and meditated on them I must say I am actually happy with myself for asking these people who have made a lifestyle out of lying to stop doing so. All I want is for the general public who are currently being blitzed and deliberately so with a great deal of la la la everything-about-TM-is-swell-sweet-and-good deserve to know what kind of people they are dealing with. It is rather typical of TM apologists to accuse people of unstressing when they are merely stating facts the TMO doesn't want to admit to. Unstressing, you know, the phenomenon that David Spector and Tammy on the cardio blog won't admit exists? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Whether you and other TM apologists like it or not, if you want the general public to dote on TM like you do, you are going to have to deal with the baggage the Movement has generated for nearly 60 years - you can't expect this info to be taken in a vacuum - as in pay attention to what we tell you to pay attention to, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I don't rant Even compared to the colourful persona on this forum you are unusually full of your self and obsessed with your own unstressing. - I want people to have the full picture, Which you are not even close to be able to give. Have a reality check, or even better; have your meditation checked.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
I guessed it. What this is all about is making yourself happy. Thanks for letting us know. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Having read your comments and meditated on them I must say I am actually happy with myself for asking these people who have made a lifestyle out of lying to stop doing so. All I want is for the general public who are currently being blitzed and deliberately so with a great deal of la la la everything-about-TM-is-swell-sweet-and-good deserve to know what kind of people they are dealing with. It is rather typical of TM apologists to accuse people of unstressing when they are merely stating facts the TMO doesn't want to admit to. Unstressing, you know, the phenomenon that David Spector and Tammy on the cardio blog won't admit exists? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Whether you and other TM apologists like it or not, if you want the general public to dote on TM like you do, you are going to have to deal with the baggage the Movement has generated for nearly 60 years - you can't expect this info to be taken in a vacuum - as in pay attention to what we tell you to pay attention to, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I don't rant Even compared to the colourful persona on this forum you are unusually full of your self and obsessed with your own unstressing. - I want people to have the full picture, Which you are not even close to be able to give. Have a reality check, or even better; have your meditation checked.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
Isn't that the whole point to doing TM? From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. I guessed it. What this is all about is making yourself happy. Thanks for letting us know. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Having read your comments and meditated on them I must say I am actually happy with myself for asking these people who have made a lifestyle out of lying to stop doing so. All I want is for the general public who are currently being blitzed and deliberately so with a great deal of la la la everything-about-TM-is-swell-sweet-and-good deserve to know what kind of people they are dealing with. It is rather typical of TM apologists to accuse people of unstressing when they are merely stating facts the TMO doesn't want to admit to. Unstressing, you know, the phenomenon that David Spector and Tammy on the cardio blog won't admit exists? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Whether you and other TM apologists like it or not, if you want the general public to dote on TM like you do, you are going to have to deal with the baggage the Movement has generated for nearly 60 years - you can't expect this info to be taken in a vacuum - as in pay attention to what we tell you to pay attention to, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I don't rant Even compared to the colourful persona on this forum you are unusually full of your self and obsessed with your own unstressing. - I want people to have the full picture, Which you are not even close to be able to give. Have a reality check, or even better; have your meditation checked.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Having read your comments and meditated on them I must say I am actually happy with myself for asking these people who have made a lifestyle out of lying to stop doing so. Well said, I think Hagelin should hand back his PHD and stop using it as a plea to authority because people take that stuff seriously. Trust me, a quantum physicist doing a rain dance means *nothing* scientifically. You know that but a lot of people in the TMO take him seriously because he used to work at CERN they think his opinion on everything is more likely to be right as long as he dresses it up with a bit of quark-babble. Like in his Physics of yogic flying lecture where he claims hopping up and down is caused by altering the position of particles at the quantum level and thus statistically altering the likelihood of gravity working in its familiar way. Uh huh. All I want is for the general public who are currently being blitzed and deliberately so with a great deal of la la la everything-about-TM-is-swell-sweet-and-good deserve to know what kind of people they are dealing with. It is rather typical of TM apologists to accuse people of unstressing when they are merely stating facts the TMO doesn't want to admit to. Unstressing, you know, the phenomenon that David Spector and Tammy on the cardio blog won't admit exists? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Whether you and other TM apologists like it or not, if you want the general public to dote on TM like you do, you are going to have to deal with the baggage the Movement has generated for nearly 60 years - you can't expect this info to be taken in a vacuum - as in pay attention to what we tell you to pay attention to, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I don't rant Even compared to the colourful persona on this forum you are unusually full of your self and obsessed with your own unstressing. - I want people to have the full picture, Which you are not even close to be able to give. Have a reality check, or even better; have your meditation checked.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
ahem, and my other question? You know the one about the more evolved action of simply stating your opinion and then moving on? Would you say you have done that with regards to your opinions about the TMO? As for my character, I think being on FFL has actually strengthened it, thank you. I've stood up for what I think is right. My reputation might be a bit more tarnished than it was. I can live with that. to Jason: not sure what you meant by the impersonal level when you said: On an impersonal level, he is right. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: I think he is talking about certain other people Share and not himself. Just to be clear, I definitely include myself in the list of lamos who read this forum. :-) The only excuse I can come up with for it is that like Bhairitu I do it mainly for entertainment; his characterization of this place as the Funny Farm Lounge has never been more accurate than in recent days. Then again, I also admit to occasionally watching *other* soap operas, such as the popular American TV show Revenge. I find that they give me insights into the mass mindset of Americans, and the silly things they obsess over. In particular, if Share is wondering whether I consider her as much of an attention-seeking Drama Queen as the others participating in embarrassing ego-dance, my answer is an unqualified Yes. She's doing as much as anyone else to perpetuate it. In my experience, nothing erodes a person's character or reputation more quickly and effectively than constantly feeling the need to defend it. On an impersonal level, he is right. --- Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: yoohoo! Weren't you praying yesterday that the Robin topics would disappear?! I guess you were really praying that you could have the last word on it. Whoops! You might have to post again I guess. And do you include yourself in what you called the couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum?! And do you think that you have done what you call the more evolved action of simply stating your opinion and then moving on? Do you think you have done that with regards to the TMO? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:53 AM It's the same IMO with all of the egos involved in all this posturing and arguing. Almost no one on the planet other than a couple of dozen people lame enough to read this forum will ever know anything about the people themselves, or ever care to. It's a bunch of nobodies arguing with other nobodies about their supposed somebodyness. People have tried to demonize drive bys on this forum, as if simply stating one's opinion and moving on is a Bad Thing. I suspect it's a more highly evolved thing. You just say what you think and stay out of the shit. Let those who enjoy wallowing in shit do that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Having read your comments and meditated on them I must say I am actually happy with myself for asking these people who have made a lifestyle out of lying to stop doing so. Anyone with as much vitriol as this display has some serious issues to resolve within himself. Blaming others won't help; get a checking.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Thanks I appreciate your saying this. I just like honesty, that's all - if the TMO came clean owned up to all the things the things they do, openly and honestly, I wouldn't have a word to say. What I wonder about is why the TMO should let you know anything. Because even if they did you wouldn't be able to understand even a sparkle of the ideas. Do you remember the pearls before swine analogy ? Being in a good mood today and granting you the benefit of the doubt, it's not because I consider you a pig, it's just that the qualifications for insights are not even dimly present. From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. Â Michael, I read the website and your comments and I thought, like virtually all of your writing here at FFL, that you state you case and your experiences with utmost clarity and lack of reaction. I appreciate who you are and where you're coming from to the extent that I can without really knowing you. Carry on, you are simply speaking of your perceptions and conclusions and experiences in a way which I find intelligent and worth considering. Have you ever meditated with TM or spend time in the TMO ? If not, how on earth can you possibly have an opinion ? I usually don't have the time to read your posts here, but if they are equally unfounded what would be the reason to start ?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
I don't believe I have blamed anyone in the TMO for anything - but I am willing to call them on their crap-ola when I see it - I am sure this will sound arrogant to a TMO junkie, but I got over the need for getting my meditation checked when I left MIU in 1987 - how many other meditation pathways tell you to get your meditation checked? So we both know that no matter what I say you are gonna still turn a blind eye to the excesses and ridiculous behavior of the TMO as well as the many many many unfulfilled promises of Maharishi, the fact that he told lies about being celibate and about what he was using everyone's money for. And no matter what you say I will never give myself over to a group who walk around feeling holier than everyone else by virtue of having paid a million bucks for face time with a man who I think will go down in history as the most successful con artist of the 20th Century. I mean, he had a 54 year run, made over 3 billion dollars, was adored and treated like the second coming by thousands of people, increased the con over the years with increasingly absurd aspects of the original con (here I mean the sidhis as original con cuz as I have stated before. I do think the basic meditation technique he taught is beneficial, no more so than any other mind you), tho he did tell a few fibs about the TM technique itself like it has no side effects (heavy unstressing on rounding courses anyone?) it is more effective than other meditations and that it only takes 3-5 years of TM to achieve enlightenment. So yeah he was pretty successful. Now if you have deigned to read this far, I wanna ask you an honest question. If you worked for a person who was running a successful business that helped people to some extent in their lives and discovered that he and his, let's say nephews, who ran the company with him were misusing funds, taking money under false pretenses and using his position to seduce women and telling a certain number of lies in order to keep his business going, would you continue to support him and work for his company, knowing that as you did so, you would still be helping people to some extent even while helping him to perpetrate a con artist deal on the public at the same time? I From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 12:47 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Having read your comments and meditated on them I must say I am actually happy with myself for asking these people who have made a lifestyle out of lying to stop doing so. Anyone with as much vitriol as this display has some serious issues to resolve within himself. Blaming others won't help; get a checking.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I am sure this will sound arrogant to a TMO junkie, but I got over the need for getting my meditation checked when I left MIU in 1987 - Thanks, that was already well understood and explains your set-up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
If holding people accountable for their deeds and behavior gives me the consciousness of an amoeba, I willingly accept the label. It is preferable to saying Oh, that one didn't work out either, must be somethin' subtle. or Oh they aren't going to go any further with that project that Marshy said was so muy importante, well he's so enlightened he must see things we don't and knows in his enlightened consciousness that the project is unnecessary now. In such situations one of course does not ask for refunds for monies given for the now defunct project. But I am rambling as amoebas are often prone to do. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:01 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Thanks I appreciate your saying this. I just like honesty, that's all - if the TMO came clean owned up to all the things the things they do, openly and honestly, I wouldn't have a word to say. What I wonder about is why the TMO should let you know anything. Because even if they did you wouldn't be able to understand even a sparkle of the ideas. Do you remember the pearls before swine analogy ? Being in a good mood today and granting you the benefit of the doubt, it's not because I consider you a pig, it's just that the qualifications for insights are not even dimly present. From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. Â Michael, I read the website and your comments and I thought, like virtually all of your writing here at FFL, that you state you case and your experiences with utmost clarity and lack of reaction. I appreciate who you are and where you're coming from to the extent that I can without really knowing you. Carry on, you are simply speaking of your perceptions and conclusions and experiences in a way which I find intelligent and worth considering. Have you ever meditated with TM or spend time in the TMO ? If not, how on earth can you possibly have an opinion ? I usually don't have the time to read your posts here, but if they are equally unfounded what would be the reason to start ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: If holding people accountable for their deeds and behavior gives me the consciousness of an amoeba, I willingly accept the label. It is preferable to saying Oh, that one didn't work out either, must be somethin' subtle. or Oh they aren't going to go any further with that project that Marshy said was so muy importante, well he's so enlightened he must see things we don't and knows in his enlightened consciousness that the project is unnecessary now. In such situations one of course does not ask for refunds for monies given for the now defunct project. But I am rambling as amoebas are often prone to do. Amoebas are biologically immortal except for accidents, so you are one up on the TMO for that. Gurus can be under a lot of strange influences, as adoration can isolate them in a way that does not allow ordinary human interaction. If they are not rock solid enlightened and have decent ethical values, this can cause them to fall short of proclaimed and expected ideals. In the early days MMY did not seem like a betrayer of the faith people put on him. Plus a guru who surrounds themselves with an organisation is looking for trouble because of the non uniform quality of disciples and the inevitable number of administrators who believe rather than live the results of a teaching. As soon as a teacher is surrounded by an inner circle of disciples, a movement is doomed to corruption, unknowingly the teacher loses control as middlemen proliferate, and when the teacher goes, management remains, and everybody hates management except managers. A lot of this falls on the stupidity of the disciples. It is almost as if there is a law of nature that says once a teacher gets x number of disciples, and a movement forms, that is the beginning of the end of whatever purity of teaching can be had. Perhaps a teaching has a critical mass of students above which it will mutate into something less than desirable. It will become a problem to all solutions instead of a solution to all problems. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:01 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Thanks I appreciate your saying this. I just like honesty, that's all - if the TMO came clean owned up to all the things the things they do, openly and honestly, I wouldn't have a word to say. What I wonder about is why the TMO should let you know anything. Because even if they did you wouldn't be able to understand even a sparkle of the ideas. Do you remember the pearls before swine analogy ? Being in a good mood today and granting you the benefit of the doubt, it's not because I consider you a pig, it's just that the qualifications for insights are not even dimly present. From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. ÃÂ Michael, I read the website and your comments and I thought, like virtually all of your writing here at FFL, that you state you case and your experiences with utmost clarity and lack of reaction. I appreciate who you are and where you're coming from to the extent that I can without really knowing you. Carry on, you are simply speaking of your perceptions and conclusions and experiences in a way which I find intelligent and worth considering. Have you ever meditated with TM or spend time in the TMO ? If not, how on earth can you possibly have an opinion ? I usually don't have the time to read your posts here, but if they are equally unfounded what would be the reason to start ?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
That is an interesting analysis - and the first sentence made me laugh a good deal - thank you! From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 5:58 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: If holding people accountable for their deeds and behavior gives me the consciousness of an amoeba, I willingly accept the label. It is preferable to saying Oh, that one didn't work out either, must be somethin' subtle. or Oh they aren't going to go any further with that project that Marshy said was so muy importante, well he's so enlightened he must see things we don't and knows in his enlightened consciousness that the project is unnecessary now. In such situations one of course does not ask for refunds for monies given for the now defunct project. But I am rambling as amoebas are often prone to do. Amoebas are biologically immortal except for accidents, so you are one up on the TMO for that. Gurus can be under a lot of strange influences, as adoration can isolate them in a way that does not allow ordinary human interaction. If they are not rock solid enlightened and have decent ethical values, this can cause them to fall short of proclaimed and expected ideals. In the early days MMY did not seem like a betrayer of the faith people put on him. Plus a guru who surrounds themselves with an organisation is looking for trouble because of the non uniform quality of disciples and the inevitable number of administrators who believe rather than live the results of a teaching. As soon as a teacher is surrounded by an inner circle of disciples, a movement is doomed to corruption, unknowingly the teacher loses control as middlemen proliferate, and when the teacher goes, management remains, and everybody hates management except managers. A lot of this falls on the stupidity of the disciples. It is almost as if there is a law of nature that says once a teacher gets x number of disciples, and a movement forms, that is the beginning of the end of whatever purity of teaching can be had. Perhaps a teaching has a critical mass of students above which it will mutate into something less than desirable. It will become a problem to all solutions instead of a solution to all problems. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:01 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Thanks I appreciate your saying this. I just like honesty, that's all - if the TMO came clean owned up to all the things the things they do, openly and honestly, I wouldn't have a word to say. What I wonder about is why the TMO should let you know anything. Because even if they did you wouldn't be able to understand even a sparkle of the ideas. Do you remember the pearls before swine analogy ? Being in a good mood today and granting you the benefit of the doubt, it's not because I consider you a pig, it's just that the qualifications for insights are not even dimly present. From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.  Michael, I read the website and your comments and I thought, like virtually all of your writing here at FFL, that you state you case and your experiences with utmost clarity and lack of reaction. I appreciate who you are and where you're coming from to the extent that I can without really knowing you. Carry on, you are simply speaking of your perceptions and conclusions and experiences in a way which I find intelligent and worth considering. Have you ever meditated with TM or spend time in the TMO ? If not, how on earth can you possibly have an opinion ? I usually don't have the time to read your posts here, but if they are equally unfounded what would be the reason to start ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
Your comments are worthless because they are not about the subject of the article. You just wanted to go on an anti-TM rant, throwing in everything you could think of. The other posters dealt with you quite kindly, which is more than you deserved. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote: Dunno if any of you are interested but when I saw this blog on a TM study and saw one of the comments on it, I decided to post a reply - this brought forth a heated response from someone that I suspect works for the TM folks - so check it out if you want some fun. http://cardiobrief.org/2012/11/13/mysterious-disappearing-paper-finally-reappears-in-another-journal/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
Whether you and other TM apologists like it or not, if you want the general public to dote on TM like you do, you are going to have to deal with the baggage the Movement has generated for nearly 60 years - you can't expect this info to be taken in a vacuum - as in pay attention to what we tell you to pay attention to, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I don't rant - I want people to have the full picture, not the limited information the TM Movement puts out - then people can make their own decision - but people are entitled to full disclosure, full information and you know damn good and well full disclosure is one thing the TM folks are not willing to give most of the time. When you deal with esoteric notions there is the notion of karma or unresolved energy that people create individually and collectively - if you want more people to do TM you are going to have to deal openly and forthrightly with the energy of unpleasant and unconscionable behavior the TM Movement has created and perpetuated. Even those who are still TM boosters have story after story of TM abuse. I spoke last night to an old friend who was on one of the early Governor training courses and who was on one of the teams of Governors who taught the TM Sidhi Prep courses around 1977 or 1978 - she nearly adores what she received from Maharishi, yet said her time on the Sidhi Prep teams was one of the worst of her life due to the way the Council in New York who was in charge of the teams treated her and the other ladies on her team, and other teams she knew of. Karma is karma but you seem to think if its created in the service of Maharishi it don't stick to you. What does that have to do with scientific research? The credibility of the organization that does this research has been impaired due to its behavior, not to mention the fact that to have most of the TM research done by TM'ers always with positive results is like having Merck doing all its own research on its own drugs, or as we say here in the South, its like having the coyotes guarding the hen house. From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 10:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments. Your comments are worthless because they are not about the subject of the article. You just wanted to go on an anti-TM rant, throwing in everything you could think of. The other posters dealt with you quite kindly, which is more than you deserved. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote: Dunno if any of you are interested but when I saw this blog on a TM study and saw one of the comments on it, I decided to post a reply - this brought forth a heated response from someone that I suspect works for the TM folks - so check it out if you want some fun. http://cardiobrief.org/2012/11/13/mysterious-disappearing-paper-finally-reappears-in-another-journal/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM studies and dueling comments.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote: Dunno if any of you are interested but when I saw this blog on a TM study and saw one of the comments on it, I decided to post a reply - this brought forth a heated response from someone that I suspect works for the TM folks - so check it out if you want some fun. http://cardiobrief.org/2012/11/13/mysterious-disappearing-paper-finally-reappears-in-another-journal/ Hilarious. I love how the TB responds when you pin something down about TM, all of a sudden it was never meant to cure anything, never meant to make you enlightened and it was *you* who didn't understand it if you aren't happy with what it didn't do. It's like these people forget they ever read any of Marshy's books or heard a lecture.
