Re: RE..Update Akira
My heart is breaking for you. I have been in a situation like yours and I know how painful it is not to have the kind of support and understanding you need desperately at this time. I will be praying for you and Akira.Your BF I'm sure is hurting to and can't except the facts, but that doesn't help you. May God give you strength and comfort. Bless Akira and may she be at peace soon. Love, Sheila inline: Clouds.jpg
Re: Update on Akira
Lisa, this must be so hard, but I really have nothing to input, I am so sorry for you. I would just keep taking her outside and try water and food outside.I am sending you both positve thoughts and healing vibes.Cherie[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Update on Akira hi everyone, I just wanted to thank everyone for their prayers so far..and ask everyone to please continue praying.I am so upset and confused Ill tell you that much..I jsut dont know what to dolet me explain..mabey someone here (thanks to those who Ive talked to) can give me some advise/help/reassurance Akira is still hanging in there...she is obviously very weak..she hasnt eaten in 10 daysyet she still isnt yellow I am so second guessing everything right nowshe jsut sleeps mostly..and only gets up to turn herself over when one side is getting sore.she refused water even about 4 days ago now..yet I took ehr outside yesterday again..and she drank some while outside...very little..but still...before that she has been jsut turning her nose up at it too.then again today she refuses it...Ive been giving her a little several times a day just to keep her mouth moist so her lips dont get chapped, or anything...but other than that she doesn't want it.she seems so alert though she still purrs when you pet her,a nd will lift her butt a little if you scratch "the spot", yet she wont get up for anything(but then again who wouldn't bee weak after 10 days not eating)she is so thin..I feel awfulbut I know natural deaths can take a while...up to even 3 weeks!!!..its been 10 days since any signifigant nurishmentand before that the only reall signifigant nurishment was one days worth at the vet.I was force feeding her the week before but she was refusing even that...and jsut not wanting it so she didn't get muchand now 3 days without water (not counting yesterday) The A/C that I had speak with Akira said Akira was ready to go.,...if that was true why is she still hanging on so tightly Her blood tests indicated something going on with her liver..since she hadnt eaten we assumed fatty liver ..but she would have been gone..and at LEAST yellow by now if that was true...so something else may be going on in her liver...BUT the CBC also indicated her FeLV had flared up and was causing problems..possibly even another cancer...which is what her vet was really worried about..her not havign much of a chanceand of course the all mighty $ plays into this whole senario WAY more than I would like it too...Ive got to think about the others tooIve got 7 other animals that I have to think about..and Indy right now is still going through having urinary issues..not so much but he still needs check up..and I would like a pro-raw holistic vet to look at him to hopefully get away from the commercial stuff he hates so much..and perhaps FIX him...rather than bandaid him...I spoke to Michelle (the vet) again today about all my concerns..she is going to fax me the bloopd results and an exact estimate of what all Akira would need and how much it would belike liver biopsy, feeding tube, other tests etcjust to humor me I asked her tooshe thinks it would be best just to let her goand I know she is looking at it form what I would be putting Akira through and myself (financially) through...which I respect...but Im just so worried has has more of a chance than I thought a week ago... Several peeps think I should try the feeding tubebut then what? something made her quit eating and the FeLV is looking like the cullpritplus withher CBC values being like they werethe vet fears the feeding tube may cause more problems...infection, irritation..and just plain not healing rightplus if her body rejects the food or not Im so confused/stressed/worried..yet at teh same time I dont want to make the wrong decisonI wish it was so much more easier...black and white..not so much gray. But she is still comfy, resting, not hiding, refusing food and water,a nd force feedingI dunno.And I still want to let her go naturally..I just dont know if now..I believe the A/C so much or not...if she was ready and wanted to go..why is this taking so long? Either way...PLEASE..everyone continue to pray for her. Lisa and the furbratsAkira, Indy, Spooky, Mona, Lancelot, Bowtie, Bennie and AnzaHave a purrfect day Cherie
Re: stitch
I am pulling for Stitch Cherie"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well stitch took a turn for the worse on sunday when his lymphoma came out of remission. he will start the ccnu if his CBC comes back with a good white blood cell count. keep your fingers crossedHave a purrfect day Cherie
RE: stitch
Michael Sending healing vibes and thoughts Stitch's way. Carla
Re: Ginger ate a little (or at least licked at food)!
Michelle, Sounds like Ginger is really making a turnaround. Now eat for your Mom Ginger!! :) -- Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties ... http://www.bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candle Light Service http://www.bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design) http://HostDesign4U.com --- BMK Designs (non-profit web sites) http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: RE..Update Akira
Lisa, Oh hon...I know how hard this is for you, I've been there too. Try not to be too hard on your boyfriend tho. Men are raised to "fix things"...he is seeing the same thing Akira is going through and what you are going through and its tearing him up too...he doesn't know how to "fix it" any more than you do, but see he's "SUPPOSED" to know...;-)so damnit he's gonna try to fix it "if you would just let him"! :-) And what is upsetting to him is that you "don't seem to want to let him help you both." Now I know that Akira is your cat, and the decisions are YOUR's to make, but your bf is scared out of his mind too...of loosing Akira, for his own feelings toward herand of loosing you, because right now, when all his logic tells him you should be needing him the most..you seem to be pushing him away, shutting him out, dismissing him, and he doesn't understand why. I truly doubt he is TRYING to make you feel bad...he prob. just sees your rejection of his suggestions as a rejection of HIM...Let's face it...this might very well be the first time he's had to deal with death without Mom Dad sheltering him from it, or leading him through it...so now all of a sudden he's the "adult" and he's going to help you if it kills you both! (Its very sweet...in a wayas much as it is irritating.) He's trying to play guardian, protector, savior, lover Dad...he doesn't know where to put himself, any more than you do right now...he's as scared as you...maybe more so, because Akira isn't his so he can't actually "take charge"...he feels helpless too...and since helplessness is a "weakness" he might be showing it as anger. I don't know how to tell you to deal with him...I just didn't want you to think that he is trying to hurt you...if he's never been demonstrative toward you before...its prob. just his fear and confusion that he's transferring... At least that's an educated guess from what I've read that you've postedif I've totally missed the mark...forgive me...just trying to help. God Bless. T[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/16/2005 4:27:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.vetinfo.com/cchohep.html#Cholagiohepatitis I want to thank everyone for their continued prayers adn kind words..they mean so much to me.,...I wish I could get hte same here.,...at home.Im so upset and just crying..inside..but can hardley seem to cry outwardly.My bf is not being overly nice about this..he wants to save hr no matter what..which I dont think is going to happen...and he is just making my second guessing myself all that much worseand even (I think..he says not) using it to make me feel worse about not doingt he feeding tube up front..I asked hi what were we supposed to do if one of the other needed vet care soonhes like "I dunno"well what kind of answer is that and then what about her?..and what she wants...I TOLD him it would be a long.,..not so pretty proccess..I dont know what he thought would happen...hes all "shes thin, shes losing her balance, her eye lids (third) are half way up, she ..this and that"..and I KNOWI jsut wish he would shut uphe doesn't care if its natural..he thinks its awful..adn now that I am doing teh what ifs...even more to myself..he is using that to make it worse on me..even though he swears he's not.. .as to everyone's suggestion..I have told her that is is ok for her to go..and I really mean it..I am terrified of seeing her this way... and am terrified of loosing her..she means so mcuh to meshe taught me so much, she has endured so much,...and she has taught others so much,.,,she is so special, and so magicalthis hurts so much..and I feel the only place I can get any comfort is here on the internet..not even at home Yet I really mean its ok for her to go.and I say it as honestly and heart felt as I can...I tell her I understand...and will see her again..adn know she will always be by my side..until she comes back to me... and to Belinda..about teh hepatitis thing..I THINK that that is what teh liver biospy is for that they would have to do to her Lisa and the furbratsAkira, Indy, Spooky, Mona, Lancelot, Bowtie, Bennie and Anza Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
Re: Nictating Membrane - What does/could it mean?
It does sound like he is fighting off an infection of some kind. I would keep a close eye on his PCV [(Hematocrit) was 26% (Normal = 24 - 45% at their lab)], with FeLV positives you really want them on the higher end of normal. Make sure that the clavamox doesn't put him off his food. Was he tested for Hemobartenella? -- Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties ... http://www.bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candle Light Service http://www.bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design) http://HostDesign4U.com --- BMK Designs (non-profit web sites) http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Warning: Immuno-regulin side effects
Title: Message Thanks for the warning Michelle. SO glad to hear Ginger is enjoying life. I'm sorry, Idon't know what to make of her not eating either. She seems interested in eating from what you say, and tries to eat a little, but then stops. Logic would suggest it's because eating is painful for her or makes her uncomfortable in some way I'm sure you've checked for ulcers? Or---and if I mentioned this already, forgive me, and it's an "out there" idea anyway-- could it be that sheWANTS to be hand fed by you all the time now (a bit like the story we heard last week?). I know how frustrating/worrying it is when they don't eat---I'm praying that she starts again soon. Kerry -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 11:06 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Warning: Immuno-regulin side effects Ginger got her second dose of Immuno-regulin today. She is now running all over, jumping, playing, and trying (rather unsuccessfully) to eat a little (don't get too excited-- I doubt the amount she ate on her own would fill up a thimble). She is meowing for me and trying to knock the door down separating her room from the rest of the house. In other words, except for the very serious fact that she is not eating normally, she seems great. However, she had a very scary reaction to the Immuno-regulin for the first hour or so after getting it. I think she had it the first time too, on Friday, but we were in the car then so I don't think I knew the extent of it. It seems to give her severe chills, so she shakes, and makes her temperature go way up for a short time. I took her temp at104.7 and then 106.1while this happened. I freaked out and called the woman from the shelter where I volunteer and Ginger came from, who came over with her own thermometer and temped her at 105.8. I gave her fluids and, per a vet who works with the shelter, one baby aspirin. Within 30 minutes or so her temp was down to 104.8 (still high) and she was purring and playing a little. Within another 30 minutes she was running around, interested in food and nibbling a little, jumping onto the very high bed in that room, and getting pinker than she has been for days. When I thought back, I realized that after she got the first shot at the emergency room, while I was driving home she crawled onto my lap and was shivering and I called the emergency room to ask if this could just be an effect of the moderate fever they had temped her at, and they said yes. But she probably had a major temp spike then too. I looked in the literature on I-R and it says that under 10% of cats get side effects which can include a minor increase in temperature (I do not think 105.8 is minor) and chills and sluggishness. I guess she gets that reaction. Terry, from the shelter, looked it up in a book she has on meds for cats and dogs and saw that the dosages range from .25 to .5 ml, and I had given her .5 ml because that is what the article on the felineleukemia.org website recommends. I do not know if I will give it to her again or not, but Terry said if I do I should give the lower dosage, and I think I would give it with a baby aspirin. Right when it happened I said I would never give her the meds again, but she is so incredibly spunky now that I am not sure. I actually just had to stop typing and go take her out of a planter on a shelf that she had climbed into, and now she is at the door meowing for me to go back and play with her! Her next dosage would be on Thursday, and she has an ultrasound on Thursday if she is still not eating, so I would wait and see what the ultrasound says. If god-forbid she has cancer, then the I-R is probably not the answer anyway. Terry could not believe she is not eating, because she looks so normal. Her nose is still congested, but not very much by the sound of it. Her not eating is a mystery. It made sense before the dental surgery, and right afterwards and while her URI was so bad, but now it does not make any sense, unless she still can not smell or taste much because she is still somewhat congested. I hope that is all it is. Anyway, I just wanted to convey this experience with Immuno-Regulin so that you will know if you ever decide to try it that there can be temporary side effects that can be scary. Terry at the shelter uses it frequently and says she has never seen anything like Ginger's reaction to it, but she also said that it passed so quickly that, with 150 cats at the shelter, she is not sure she would notice if they had a brief spell of chills or a brief temp spike, since she was not totally listless or anything when it happened. MichelleThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This
Re: Nictating Membrane - What does/could it mean?
He's supposed to be tested for Hemobart with the other blood work that was ordered. I was also concerned about his PCV being at the low end of normal, but the vet I saw didn't seem as concerned about it as I was? Belinda SauroTue, 17 May 2005 07:23:00 -0700 It does sound like he is fighting off an infection of some kind. I would keep a close eye on his PCV [(Hematocrit) was 26% (Normal = 24 - 45% at their lab)], with FeLV positives you really want them on the higher end of normal. Make sure that the clavamox doesn't put him off his food. Was he tested for Hemobartenella?
Re: RE..Update Akira (the psychological conditioning of the human male)
Wow, amazingly well written, and I think most likely, totally on the mark for most men. They are psychologically conditioned to be this way from a young age. I'd say, let HIM read that email... it may be a real turning point in his life. I know if I was a man, and I read that, and saw the truth behind it, I might break down. Jenn ~~~ Oh hon...I know how hard this is for you, I've been there too. Try not to be too hard on your boyfriend tho. Men are raised to "fix things"...he is seeing the same thing Akira is going through and what you are going through and its tearing him up too...he doesn't know how to "fix it" any more than you do, but see he's "SUPPOSED" to know...;-)so damnit he's gonna try to fix it "if you would just let him"! :-) And what is upsetting to him is that you "don't seem to want to let him help you both." Now I know that Akira is your cat, and the decisions are YOUR's to make, but your bf is scared out of his mind too...of loosing Akira, for his own feelings toward herand of loosing you, because right now, when all his logic tells him you should be needing him the most..you seem to be pushing him away, shutting him out, dismissing him, and he doesn't understand why. I truly doubt he is TRYING to make you feel bad...he prob. just sees your rejection of his suggestions as a rejection of HIM...Let's face it...this might very well be the first time he's had to deal with death without Mom Dad sheltering him from it, or leading him through it...so now all of a sudden he's the "adult" and he's going to help you if it kills you both! (Its very sweet...in a wayas much as it is irritating.) He's trying to play guardian, protector, savior, lover Dad...he doesn't know where to put himself, any more than you do right now...he's as scared as you...maybe more so, because Akira isn't his so he can't actually "take charge"...he feels helpless too...and since helplessness is a "weakness" he might be showing it as anger. I don't know how to tell you to deal with him...I just didn't want you to think that he is trying to hurt you...if he's never been demonstrative toward you before...its prob. just his fear and confusion that he's transferring... At least that's an educated guess from what I've read that you've postedif I've totally missed the mark...forgive me...just trying to help. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005
Article Posted by Best Friends (Biology experiment teaches disrespect)
Biology experiment teaches disrespect May 16, 2005 : 8:21 AM ET After finding itself in the glare of the national media spotlight, the Gunnison Valley High School has apologized for using a homeless dog in a school biology experiment. The dog, whod been abandoned and was unclaimed after two weeks, was going to be put down. So their biology teacher organized a class in which the dog was cut open in front of the 16- and 17-year-old girls so they could see the digestive system at work. After the surgery, the dog was destroyed. The story was broadcast on KTVX news, and then made its way into the national media, whereupon the school was surprised to find itself facing some very unwelcome publicity and protests from around the country. We dont condone this, said South Sanpete School District assistant superintendent Donald Hill. Our schools will not participate in this again. But the teacher stood by what hed done, and even the assistant principals apology was somewhat half-hearted. They did not remove or dissect any parts. It was not barbaric, [but] we will have to find a better way next time. A better way to accomplish what exactly? Any other lessons we teach them in school or church about the sanctity of life and family values are instantly undermined in a class like this, when we treat living creatures as no more than objects to be sliced open, inspected, and then killed. Vivisection (cutting up live animals for experiments) has long been abandoned by schools in the mainstream of education. Teachers know that its the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. Once life any life is viewed with such disrespect, the door is open to all life being treated similarly. It just makes me sick, said student Sierra Williams to KTVX news. Other students told their parents that their teacher was less than sympathetic to their distress, telling them they simply needed to be able to handle it. But what the students couldnt handle was not the sight of blood or body parts. Had they been witnessing a heroic effort to save a life, they would have reacted quite differently. Sure, many of us are squeamish about watching surgery, but thats very different from the horror and distress of these girls. Young people learn some of their most important life lessons from the way their parents and teachers treat animals. Even seeing a family pet dropped off at the local shelter can be traumatic. When the family runs into financial problems, and Mom and Dad decide they can no longer keep Fido or Fluffy, it sends a very clear message to the youngest child, who now finds himself at the bottom of the family hierarchy: I may be next. Cruelty and disrespect to animals breed the same attitude toward humans. In homes where animals are being abused, spouses and children are almost always being abused, too. Its a well-known fact that every serial killer ever captured has admitted to having started on animals before graduating to people. And according to the pastor of the high-school boys who carried out the infamous massacre at the Columbine High School a few years ago, the two boys were known to have practiced first on birds. Respect for life is fundamental to any civilized society. Its why we even surround the execution of even a condemned criminal with certain rituals the last meal, the visit from the chaplain. And its why, when a lost, lonely, helpless dog is going to be killed, shelter workers do their best to offer him or her a caring and dignified end. We should be proud that the girls at Gunnison Valley were horrified and upset at the school experiment they witnessed. They dont need to learn to handle their reaction. They need to be guided by it. In a world where the daily news is full of routine killing and cruelty, we need to teach our children that kindness to animals builds respect for all living creatures, and that this is the foundation of a better world for all of us. By Michael MountainBest Friends Animal Society Terrie MohrCheck site for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescueClick Here to Join K9 and Puddy Xpress Yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9andPuddyXpress/joinhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.orecatay.com/http://www.awca.net/index.htmhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/http://www.meezer.com/http://thesiamesestore.com/http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.htmlhttp://ca.siameserescue.org/http://co.siameserescue.org/http://va.siameserescue.org/ inline: aks.jpginline: logobuttonsq.jpg
: RE..Update Akira (the psychological conditioning of the human male)
In a message dated 5/17/2005 11:13:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would whoever sent teh following message please email me privatlly...it did not come through the digest Message: 2Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:11:08 -0400From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: RE..Update Akira (the psychological conditioning of the human male)To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-- next part --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005 Lisa and the furbratsAkira, Indy, Spooky, Mona, Lancelot, Bowtie, Bennie and Anza
Re: Warning: Immuno-regulin side effects
It sounds to me like the benefits outweigh the reaction. I'm so happy she is feeling better! My cat, Doobie, has reactions to any vaccines, and so they give him a dose of something like "dexamethizone" (not sure of the exact spelling) with any immunizations, or he will run a faver, and his feet get hot and itchy, and he turns bright pink and generally miserable. I only update his rabies vaccine every 3 years now though (and he does not get the other "cat" vaccines). Jenn -- Ginger got her second dose of Immuno-regulin today. She is now running all over, jumping, playing, and trying (rather unsuccessfully) to eat a little (don't get too excited-- I doubt the amount she ate on her own would fill up a thimble). She is meowing for me and trying to knock the door down separating her room from the rest of the house. In other words, except for the very serious fact that she is not eating normally, she seems great. However, she had a very scary reaction to the Immuno-regulin for the first hour or so after getting it. I think she had it the first time too, on Friday, but we were in the car then so I don't think I knew the extent of it. It seems to give her severe chills, so she shakes, and makes her temperature go way up for a short time. I took her temp at104.7 and then 106.1while this happened. I freaked out and called the woman from the shelter where I volunteer and Ginger came from, who came over with her own thermometer and temped her at 105.8. I gave her fluids and, per a vet who works with the shelter, one baby aspirin. Within 30 minutes or so her temp was down to 104.8 (still high) and she was purring and playing a little. Within another 30 minutes she was running around, interested in food and nibbling a little, jumping onto the very high bed in that room, and getting pinker than she has been for days. When I thought back, I realized that after she got the first shot at the emergency room, while I was driving home she crawled onto my lap and was shivering and I called the emergency room to ask if this could just be an effect of the moderate fever they had temped her at, and they said yes. But she probably had a major temp spike then too. I looked in the literature on I-R and it says that under 10% of cats get side effects which can include a minor increase in temperature (I do not think 105.8 is minor) and chills and sluggishness. I guess she gets that reaction. Terry, from the shelter, looked it up in a book she has on meds for cats and dogs and saw that the dosages range from .25 to .5 ml, and I had given her .5 ml because that is what the article on the felineleukemia.org website recommends. I do not know if I will give it to her again or not, but Terry said if I do I should give the lower dosage, and I think I would give it with a baby aspirin. Right when it happened I said I would never give her the meds again, but she is so incredibly spunky now that I am not sure. I actually just had to stop typing and go take her out of a planter on a shelf that she had climbed into, and now she is at the door meowing for me to go back and play with her! Her next dosage would be on Thursday, and she has an ultrasound on Thursday if she is still not eating, so I would wait and see what the ultrasound says. If god-forbid she has cancer, then the I-R is probably not the answer anyway. Terry could not believe she is not eating, because she looks so normal. Her nose is still congested, but not very much by the sound of it. Her not eating is a mystery. It made sense before the dental surgery, and right afterwards and while her URI was so bad, but now it does not make any sense, unless she still can not smell or taste much because she is still somewhat congested. I hope that is all it is. Anyway, I just wanted to convey this experience with Immuno-Regulin so that you will know if you ever decide to try it that there can be temporary side effects that can be scary. Terry at the shelter uses it frequently and says she has never seen anything like Ginger's reaction to it, but she also said that it passed so quickly that, with 150 cats at the shelter, she is not sure she would notice if they had a brief spell of chills or a brief temp spike, since she was not totally listless or anything when it happened. Michelle No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release Date: 5/16/2005
Re: Nictating Membrane - What does/could it mean?
Marlene, Just so you know many cats will actually be positive for hemo and test negative, it's tricky to test for, so many vets will give them the med for it anyway, it can't hurt and may save his life. I think the doxocycline (sp?) is what's used for it. How many positive cats has your vet worked with? If he isn't very familar with them and how quickly they can crash he may not be as concerned about the PVC as those of us who deal with this on a daily basis. -- Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties ... http://www.bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candle Light Service http://www.bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design) http://HostDesign4U.com --- BMK Designs (non-profit web sites) http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Article Posted by Best Friends (Biology experiment teachesdisrespect)
I am glad this is getting publicity and that the school system is not going to do this anymore. But there is something I have to mention.I've read several articles on this matter. This one does not mention that the parents of these students were asked to sign a permission slip of some sortallowing their children to witness this and a number of students did opt out of witnessing this. This was not a requirement and there were students who exercised their option to not attend. While that does not condone what the kids witnessed, what the vet did, or what the teacher organized, it does make me wonder what these kids who were "horrified" and their parents were thinking when they signed the OK to participate. Wouldn't it have sent a far clearer message if every student in the class had opted out of watching this at the time the permission slips were distributed? Shouldn't we applaud the students who exercised their option to not participate before we applaud students who agreed to watch this and are now "horrified" by what they saw and talking about it? Sorry, I just had to speak up."MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's horrifying. I've written a letter of protest to the superintendent. Will also write to the Board. Thanks for posting. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 10:11 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Article Posted by Best Friends (Biology experiment teachesdisrespect) Biology experiment teaches disrespect May 16, 2005 : 8:21 AM ET After finding itself in the glare of the national media spotlight, the Gunnison Valley High School has apologized for using a homeless dog in a school biology experiment. The dog, whod been abandoned and was unclaimed after two weeks, was going to be put down. So their biology teacher organized a class in which the dog was cut open in front of the 16- and 17-year-old girls so they could see the digestive system at work. After the surgery, the dog was destroyed. The story was broadcast on KTVX news, and then made its way into the national media, whereupon the school was surprised to find itself facing some very unwelcome publicity and protests from around the country. We dont condone this, said South Sanpete School District assistant superintendent Donald Hill. Our schools will not participate in this again. But the teacher stood by what hed done, and even the assistant principals apology was somewhat half-hearted. They did not remove or dissect any parts. It was not barbaric, [but] we will have to find a better way next time. A better way to accomplish what exactly? Any other lessons we teach them in school or church about the sanctity of life and family values are instantly undermined in a class like this, when we treat living creatures as no more than objects to be sliced open, inspected, and then killed. Vivisection (cutting up live animals for experiments) has long been abandoned by schools in the mainstream of education. Teachers know that its the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. Once life any life is viewed with such disrespect, the door is open to all life being treated similarly. It just makes me sick, said student Sierra Williams to KTVX news. Other students told their parents that their teacher was less than sympathetic to their distress, telling them they simply needed to be able to handle it. But what the students couldnt handle was not the sight of blood or body parts. Had they been witnessing a heroic effort to save a life, they would have reacted quite differently. Sure, many of us are squeamish about watching surgery, but thats very different from the horror and distress of these girls. Young people learn some of their most important life lessons from the way their parents and teachers treat animals. Even seeing a family pet dropped off at the local shelter can be traumatic. When the family runs into financial problems, and Mom and Dad decide they can no longer keep Fido or Fluffy, it sends a very clear message to the youngest child, who now finds himself at the bottom of the family hierarchy: I may be next. Cruelty and disrespect to animals breed the same attitude toward humans. In homes where animals are being abused, spouses and children are almost always being abused, too. Its a well-known fact that every serial killer ever captured has admitted to having started on animals before graduating to people. And according to the pastor of the high-school boys who carried out the infamous massacre at the Columbine High School a few years ago, the two boys were known to have practiced first on birds. Respect for life is fundamental to any civilized society. Its why we even surround the execution of even a condemned criminal with certain rituals the last meal, the visit from the chaplain. And its why, when a lost, lonely, helpless dog is
Re: Article Posted by Best Friends (Biology experiment teaches disrespect)
I dropped out of college biology class because one morning I got to class early and down the hall, in another class, outside the classroom there was a box with a howling cat inside. The microbiology class was going to dissect the cat. I became ill to my stomach. I could not enter that building again. I dropped biology. I would have been a good biology student. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Biology experiment teaches disrespect May 16, 2005 : 8:21 AM ET After finding itself in the glare of the national media spotlight, the Gunnison Valley High School has apologized for using a homeless dog in a school biology experiment. The dog, who’d been abandoned and was unclaimed after two weeks, was going to be put down. So their biology teacher organized a class in which the dog was cut open in front of the 16- and 17-year-old girls so they could see the digestive system at work. After the surgery, the dog was destroyed. The story was broadcast on KTVX news, and then made its way into the national media, whereupon the school was surprised to find itself facing some very unwelcome publicity and protests from around the country. “We don’t condone this,” said South Sanpete School District assistant superintendent Donald Hill. “Our schools will not participate in this again.” But the teacher stood by what he’d done, and even the assistant principal’s apology was somewhat half-hearted. “They did not remove or dissect any parts. It was not barbaric, [but] we will have to find a better way next time.” A “better way” to accomplish what exactly? Any other lessons we teach them in school or church about the sanctity of life and family values are instantly undermined in a class like this, when we treat living creatures as no more than objects to be sliced open, inspected, and then killed. Vivisection (cutting up live animals for experiments) has long been abandoned by schools in the mainstream of education. Teachers know that it’s the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. Once life – any life – is viewed with such disrespect, the door is open to all life being treated similarly. “It just makes me sick,” said student Sierra Williams to KTVX news. Other students told their parents that their teacher was less than sympathetic to their distress, telling them they simply needed to be able to “handle” it. But what the students couldn’t handle was not the sight of blood or body parts. Had they been witnessing a heroic effort to save a life, they would have reacted quite differently. Sure, many of us are squeamish about watching surgery, but that’s very different from the horror and distress of these girls. Young people learn some of their most important life lessons from the way their parents and teachers treat animals. Even seeing a family pet dropped off at the local shelter can be traumatic. When the family runs into financial problems, and Mom and Dad decide they can no longer keep Fido or Fluffy, it sends a very clear message to the youngest child, who now finds himself at the bottom of the family hierarchy: “I may be next.” Cruelty and disrespect to animals breed the same attitude toward humans. In homes where animals are being abused, spouses and children are almost always being abused, too. It’s a well-known fact that every serial killer ever captured has admitted to having started on animals before graduating to people. And according to the pastor of the high-school boys who carried out the infamous massacre at the Columbine High School a few years ago, the two boys were known to have practiced first on birds. Respect for life is fundamental to any civilized society. It’s why we even surround the execution of even a condemned criminal with certain rituals – the last meal, the visit from the chaplain. And it’s why, when a lost, lonely, helpless dog is going to be killed, shelter workers do their best to offer him or her a caring and dignified end. We should be proud that the girls at Gunnison Valley were horrified and upset at the school experiment they witnessed. They don’t need to learn to “handle” their reaction. They need to be guided by it. In a world where the daily news is full of routine killing and cruelty, we need to teach our children that kindness to animals builds respect for all living creatures, and that this is the foundation of a better world for all of us. By Michael MountainBest Friends Animal Society Terrie MohrCheck site for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescueClick Here to Join K9 and Puddy Xpress Yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9andPuddyXpress/joinhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless
RE: Article Posted by Best Friends (Biology experimentteachesdisrespect)
Title: Message Didn't know that. Good point--I agree. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RachelSent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:03 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: Article Posted by Best Friends (Biology experimentteachesdisrespect) I am glad this is getting publicity and that the school system is not going to do this anymore. But there is something I have to mention.I've read several articles on this matter. This one does not mention that the parents of these students were asked to sign a permission slip of some sortallowing their children to witness this and a number of students did opt out of witnessing this. This was not a requirement and there were students who exercised their option to not attend. While that does not condone what the kids witnessed, what the vet did, or what the teacher organized, it does make me wonder what these kids who were "horrified" and their parents were thinking when they signed the OK to participate. Wouldn't it have sent a far clearer message if every student in the class had opted out of watching this at the time the permission slips were distributed? Shouldn't we applaud the students who exercised their option to not participate before we applaud students who agreed to watch this and are now "horrified" by what they saw and talking about it? Sorry, I just had to speak up."MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's horrifying. I've written a letter of protest to the superintendent. Will also write to the Board. Thanks for posting. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 10:11 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Article Posted by Best Friends (Biology experiment teachesdisrespect) Biology experiment teaches disrespect May 16, 2005 : 8:21 AM ET After finding itself in the glare of the national media spotlight, the Gunnison Valley High School has apologized for using a homeless dog in a school biology experiment. The dog, whod been abandoned and was unclaimed after two weeks, was going to be put down. So their biology teacher organized a class in which the dog was cut open in front of the 16- and 17-year-old girls so they could see the digestive system at work. After the surgery, the dog was destroyed. The story was broadcast on KTVX news, and then made its way into the national media, whereupon the school was surprised to find itself facing some very unwelcome publicity and protests from around the country. We dont condone this, said South Sanpete School District assistant superintendent Donald Hill. Our schools will not participate in this again. But the teacher stood by what hed done, and even the assistant principals apology was somewhat half-hearted. They did not remove or dissect any parts. It was not barbaric, [but] we will have to find a better way next time. A better way to accomplish what exactly? Any other lessons we teach them in school or church about the sanctity of life and family values are instantly undermined in a class like this, when we treat living creatures as no more than objects to be sliced open, inspected, and then killed. Vivisection (cutting up live animals for experiments) has long been abandoned by schools in the mainstream of education. Teachers know that its the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. Once life any life is viewed with such disrespect, the door is open to all life being treated similarly. It just makes me sick, said student Sierra Williams to KTVX news. Other students told their parents that their teacher was less than sympathetic to their distress, telling them they simply needed to be able to handle it. But what the students couldnt handle was not the sight of blood or body parts. Had they been witnessing a heroic effort to save a life, they would have reacted quite differently. Sure, many of us are squeamish about watching surgery, but thats very different from the horror and distress of these girls. Young people learn some of their most important life lessons from the way their parents and teachers treat animals. Even seeing a family pet dropped off at the local shelter can be traumatic. When the family runs into financial problems, and Mom and Dad decide they can no longer keep Fido or Fluffy, it sends a very clear message to the youngest
Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 4, Issue 134
i already sent my unsubscription like 5 different times i dont want any more mail... my kitty passed away please just stop sending me emails
RE: Article Posted by Best Friends (Biology experiment teachesdisrespect)
I know what you mean, there are certain things kids really don't need to be exposed to..In 9th grade we set the chickens and frogs slated for disection...looseafter breaking into the biology dept.. ...One of the gang even set the bal python (class pet) loose in the school for laughs (NOT something the rest of us planned.) Luckily it was found two weeks later when it crashed through the ceiling tiles and landed across three desks in the middle-school history classroom. The snake was unhurt...but the teacher ran screaming from the room..never knew the little guy (teacher) could move so fast. Needless to say...the science teacher took the snake home...and the biology dept. only imported already killed subjects for that class from then on to this day"MacKenzie, Kerry N." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That makes me feel ill just reading it. (I dropped science early so never saw anything like that.) -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lewis FayeSent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:07 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Article Posted by Best Friends (Biology experiment teachesdisrespect) I dropped out of college biology class because one morning I got to class early and down the hall, in another class, outside the classroom there was a box with a howling cat inside. The microbiology class was going to dissect the cat. I became ill to my stomach. I could not enter that building again. I dropped biology. I would have been a good biology student. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Biology experiment teaches disrespect May 16, 2005 : 8:21 AM ET After finding itself in the glare of the national media spotlight, the Gunnison Valley High School has apologized for using a homeless dog in a school biology experiment. The dog, who’d been abandoned and was unclaimed after two weeks, was going to be put down. So their biology teacher organized a class in which the dog was cut open in front of the 16- and 17-year-old girls so they could see the digestive system at work. After the surgery, the dog was destroyed. The story was broadcast on KTVX news, and then made its way into the national media, whereupon the school was surprised to find itself facing some very unwelcome publicity and protests from around the country. “We don’t condone this,†said South Sanpete School District assistant superintendent Donald Hill. “Our schools will not participate in this again.†But the teacher stood by what he’d done, and even the assistant principal’s apology was somewhat half-hearted. “They did not remove or dissect any parts. It was not barbaric, [but] we will have to find a better way next time.†A “better way†to accomplish what exactly? Any other lessons we teach them in school or church about the sanctity of life and family values are instantly undermined in a class like this, when we treat living creatures as no more than objects to be sliced open, inspected, and then killed. Vivisection (cutting up live animals for experiments) has long been abandoned by schools in the mainstream of education. Teachers know that it’s the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. Once life – any life – is viewed with such disrespect, the door is open to all life being treated similarly. “It just makes me sick,†said student Sierra Williams to KTVX news. Other students told their parents that their teacher was less than sympathetic to their distress, telling them they simply needed to be able to “handle†it. But what the students couldn’t handle was not the sight of blood or body parts. Had they been witnessing a heroic effort to save a life, they would have reacted quite differently. Sure, many of us are squeamish about watching surgery, but that’s very different from the horror and distress of these girls. Young people learn some of their most important life lessons from the way their parents and teachers treat animals. Even seeing a family pet dropped off at the local shelter can be traumatic. When the family runs into financial problems, and Mom and Dad decide they can no longer keep Fido or Fluffy, it sends a very clear message to the youngest child, who now finds himself at the bottom of the family hierarchy: “I may be next.†Cruelty and disrespect to animals breed the same attitude toward humans. In homes where animals are being abused, spouses and children are almost always being abused, too. It’s a well-known fact that every serial killer ever captured has admitted to having started on animals before graduating to people. And according to the pastor of the high-school boys who carried out the infamous massacre at the Columbine High School a few years ago, the two boys were known to have practiced first on birds. Respect for life is fundamental to any civilized society. It’s why we even surround the execution of even a condemned criminal with
Re: was cat sick
I'm very glad she is doing better! Bonnie www.elephants.com - Original Message - From: Sue Feldbusch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:56 am Subject: was cat sick Cindo is doing better. The vet thinks she has a gastrointestinal bug. She's on amoxy and tagament, and special food. She's drinking a lot fo water (a concern), but she has had diarrhea now for 4 days, so that may be it. She is eating on her own, but not much yet. He said if she doesn't get better in a week, to bring her back and they'll run more tests. (may be pancreatits).
Fwd: Fwd: [FAN-H] FIP Reasearch
Comment: DomainKeys? See
http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024;
d=yahoo.com;
b=br7XLoth81aUTFYFH+n2dLwSoFPV//H3fkLIow3vV+7ypS2s/reqKe3Tk9QRvAOH4KkytoUCbFmsfmRS9yQGdb89ygwqQTI7eToWhfjfYygzZyaDM1j3yLfCbG7M6YS4HE+DCPpDTiAJL7vRDBeSWHDCxfsjAzlFJiXMIA8hpIU=
;
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 04:56:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joan Doljan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc:
X-BeenThere: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with
any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns.pnet-server6.net
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - fhtm.us
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - felineleukemia.org
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
X-NAS-Language: Swedish
X-NAS-AutoBlock-Code: 6
X-NAS-AutoBlock-Description: Always block emails that contain obscured or
disguised Web links
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Fwd: [FAN-H] FIP Reasearch
X-NAS-Classification: 1
X-NAS-MessageID: 1021
X-NAS-Validation: {83336FEA-ECA8-4FFC-9B9D-EA0E97685FCA}
Note: forwarded message attached.
X-Apparently-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] via 206.190.39.115;
Wed, 11
May 2005 12:56:07 -0700
Authentication-Results: mta109.mail.mud.yahoo.com
from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
X-Originating-IP: [66.94.237.60]
Return-Path:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: from 66.94.237.60 (HELO n31.bulk.scd.yahoo.com)
(66.94.237.60)
by
mta109.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:56:07 -0700
Comment: DomainKeys? See
http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima;
d=yahoogroups.com;
b=b7B8lBlT0e8B4x2d4Iorl6vYECjfweHxE/v7V8FyRXEN2bMXsqrgv4/GQKU0Ms66Tpvu3U0JI4AgKtl4+KB7Zos5+QW223Dg8df7sfd9BmLACFMDyTt3LLMJ6MUBRtQc;
Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n31.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
11 May
2005 19:55:41 -
Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with
NNFMP;
11 May
2005 19:55:41 -
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email
Received: (qmail 64247 invoked from network); 11 May 2005 19:55:27
-
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218)
by
m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2005 19:55:27 -
Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42)
by
mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2005 19:55:27 -
Comment: DomainKeys? See
http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
11 May
2005 19:55:26 -
Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with
NNFMP;
11 May
2005 19:55:26 -
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Apparently-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: (qmail 73182 invoked from network); 11 May 2005 18:54:18
-
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216)
by
m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2005 18:54:18 -
Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4)
by
mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2005 18:54:17 -
Received: from [EMAIL PROTECTED]
by
imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id r.f4.50a1214b (48624)
for
[EMAIL PROTECTED];
Wed, 11
May 2005 14:50:08 -0400 (EDT)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5009
X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.4
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Yahoo-Profile: DrucillaM
X-eGroups-Approved-By: featherland2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
via web;
11 May
2005 19:55:26 -
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Mailing-List: list [EMAIL PROTECTED];
contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List-Id: fanciershealth.yahoogroups.com
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:50:08 EDT
Subject: [FAN-H] FIP Reasearch
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=5cqfoaKQ0LEU422Z2cjzNjnPe2dYXV72QTiPaF-
Content-Length: 2360
PERMISSION TO CROSSPOST
Dear List;
I am please to announce that the Ring raffle sponsored by the
Orion
Foundation is finally up and going. There is a picture up on
the website for you
to look at
(_
www.orionfoundation.com_
(http://www.orionfoundation.com
) ) . The
ring is appraised at $2200 and is a 14+carat blue topaz flanked on either
side by diamonds. The funds will go to the Winn Foundation
and be earmarked
for FIP research. Raffle tickets are $5.00 each and a drawing
will be held at
the CFA Annual meeting held in Atlantic City in June (16th-19th).
You can get tickets through me. You can pay for them by check
(made out to
the Winn Foundation) or through PayPal (if you want to use PayPal,
send me a
private e-mail and let me know).
AND, we desperately need people to help us sell these tickets!
A sheet has
8 tickets...there are over 2500 people on this list. Imagine
if only 100 of
those folks sold a sheet of tickets that would be $4000 for FIP
research!
Several weeks ago, at the Western Vet Conference, there was a panel on
FIP
(thanks to Steve
Re: OT: need name of MN no-kill shelter
Hello, I live in Texas and do not know the names of shelters in Minnesota. However, I have cross-posted this request to other groups. I will do whatever I can to help. Laurie B. Oliver At 05:05 PM 5/16/2005, you wrote: Can anyone help this person with the name and contact info of any no- kill shelters or foster/rescue groups in Minneapolis? Thanks very much, Bonnie in WI - Original Message - From: Jean Colison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, May 16, 2005 11:18 am Subject: no-kill shelter or foster in Minneapolis My brother knows of someone in Minneapolis who has been talking about getting rid of her year old cat taking it to a kill shelter. (Also he wonders if she's abusing him/her.) Does anyone know of a no-kill shelter or foster group who could help? Thanks. Jean
Re: RE..Update Akira
I have to stick up for Jenn here. When my Arielle was ready to go, I had her PTS. The vet was gentle, very kind, and I held her the whole time. Of course, you have to follow your own conscience, but I am not opposed to humane euthanasia. My 2 cents. =^..^= Terri, Salome', Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, and 5 furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth and Alec =^..^= Furkid Photos! http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7sgqa/My FeLV Site: http://pages.ivillage.com/ruthiegirl1/MyFeLVinformationSite/My Personal Page: http://www.geocities.com/ruthiegirl1/terrispage.html?1083970447350 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:57 PM Subject: Re: RE..Update Akira I've not been responding with any suggestions so far, because I'm probably in the minority in my opinion, but I think she is suffering needlessly, and that HUMANE euthanasia would be the kindest thing for her at this point. I do not think that putting her through all the invasive procedures of biopsies and feeding tubes is the right thing to do. I know that if I ever get to that point, I HOPE that someone will have the kindness to ease my suffering and end my dwindling life (hopefully it will be legal by then). That's just how I feel though, and I'm not you, and she's not my cat, and I do not want you to in any way think that I am judging you, or criticizing your actions. It's just that you asked for opinions so many times, and I held my tongue a few times, but your plea has finally given me the will to say what I know will probably be my unpopular opinion. Whatever you decide, PLEASE make sure it is the decision that your heart tells you is the RIGHT one, because I know what living with regret every day feels like, and I don't want anyone to feel that kind of pain! My sincerest wishes of peace and understanding go out to you and Akira! Jenn ~~~ Thank you for the suggestion...I have toldher numerous timesyet wonder if she doesn't believe me? Or if even my BF is complicating things by telling her no..even though in front of me and her he says its oktonight when I got home form work she looked so much worse...I want to do as she wants but yet I fear I cant stomach it...I feel so awful about it and then my BF really is making things worse on me b/c he wants to put her through the biopsy, feeding tube, and is playing on my confusion right now...and is saying "I told you so" about wanting to treat her...in more subtle ways (not really saying I told you so..in fact saying he isn't..but it sure comes across that way) I got an estimate form my vet...after a bit of pesteringit would be over 600$ just to start the feeding tube...and to perform the next steps of testing to see if she is even helpable..plus she would be in the hospital for a week or more to start with..and being put under for biopsy's and the insertion of the tube..I just don't know if it is worth it..to put her though it... No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005
Re: Warning: Immuno-regulin side effects-- Ginger
She seems totally normal now except for the occasional sneeze and sniffle, and except for the very major fact that she is not eating. She tries to cover all the food I bring her, and I have tried everything. She either does not have an appetite or feels unable to eat. She does not vomit when I syringe her, but instead gives herself a thorough washing afterwards and then acts totally normal. So I am really stumped. I guess we we are left with doing the ultrasound on Thursday. Michelle In a message dated 5/17/2005 11:39:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It sounds to me like the benefits outweigh the reaction. I'm so happy she is feeling better!
Re: Warning: Immuno-regulin side effects
I assume that when the dental vet removed 10 teeth she checked for ulcers, but I will have the vet on Thursday check too. I looked in her mouth and can not see any. It does seem to me, though, like her mouth is uncomfortable in some way or chewing is difficult, but it is hard to understand why that would make her not eat baby food at this point. When she ate a few pieces of dry food she swallowed them without chewing. It's not a hand feeding thing because she only eats a piece or two when I hand feed her and then says I am impossibly annoying and goes to the other end of the bed or the room. So I don't think she wants more hand feeding. Michelle In a message dated 5/17/2005 10:35:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for the warning Michelle. SO glad to hear Ginger is enjoying life. I'm sorry, Idon't know what to make of her not eating either. She seems interested in eating from what you say, and tries to eat a little, but then stops. Logic would suggest it's because eating is painful for her or makes her uncomfortable in some way I'm sure you've checked for ulcers? Or---and if I mentioned this already, forgive me, and it's an "out there" idea anyway-- could it be that sheWANTS to be hand fed by you all the time now (a bit like the story we heard last week?). I know how frustrating/worrying it is when they don't eat---I'm praying that she starts again soon. Kerry
Jenn - the question of euthanasia
Jenn, I don't know if we're in the minority, or not. I am very grateful that we have the option of euthanasia available to us for our furred loved ones. I too would very much appreciate someone who loves me enough being able to help me cross if, when my time comes, I am suffering with no relieve or cure available. I think Switzerland allows assisted crossings for their citizens, maybe, if I have enough notice... What was the quote, MC? Better to send them to the bridge one day too soon than 5 minutes too late. That quote helped me alot when I was steeped in doubt, mourning the loss of my Jazz and questioning the decision that at the time, I KNEW was the right one under the circumstances. It's such an individual, case by case, decision. Look at my Gypsy. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I know has told me to pts. If I were looking at it from the outside, I'd have been advising the same thing. Something in the communication we share told me to hold on, to continue to fight for her. I made her a promise to do just that, till the end. There have been times when I was questioning that decision. Times when I thought I was being cruel and unjust to allow her to continue to suffer. But damn, if she isn't making a rebound! (Quick, say a prayer!) I don't think you had come back to the list when we sat vigil with Michelle and her Simon. That ordeal changed my mind about judging (not that I think you are judging, but I'm afraid I was at the beginning), what is appropriate for someone else in regard to any decisions they feel compelled to make when they are in the mists of losing an animal. Michelle struggled so valiantly and, the most important aspect, for me, was that Simon held on and struggled just as valiantly. My guess is that he did that for her. Because it was important for her to have an opportunity to save him, just a little more time, just one more effort, etc. They shared something miraculous in those short weeks, even if it wasn't the miracle that Michelle and the rest of us had been praying for. Perhaps there is a lesson in all this for Lisa and Akira, or even one of us helplessly standing by, that we can't comprehend at the moment. I don't know. I just know that it's important to support each other in whatever we decide to do, because we're so damn hard on ourselves regardless of what decisions we ultimately end up making. I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for voicing your opinion, even though it did seem you were in the minority. I think that along with the invaluable knowledge shared and the moral support given, the next important thing we can do for each other is to speak up and let our opinions be known. No shrinking violet me, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've not been responding with any suggestions so far, because I'm probably in the minority in my opinion, but I think she is suffering needlessly, and that HUMANE euthanasia would be the kindest thing for her at this point. I do not think that putting her through all the invasive procedures of biopsies and feeding tubes is the right thing to do. I know that if I ever get to that point, I HOPE that someone will have the kindness to ease my suffering and end my dwindling life (hopefully it will be legal by then). That's just how I feel though, and I'm not you, and she's not my cat, and I do not want you to in any way think that I am judging you, or criticizing your actions. It's just that you asked for opinions so many times, and I held my tongue a few times, but your plea has finally given me the will to say what I know will probably be my unpopular opinion. Whatever you decide, PLEASE make sure it is the decision that your heart tells you is the RIGHT one, because I know what living with regret every day feels like, and I don't want anyone to feel that kind of pain! My sincerest wishes of peace and understanding go out to you and Akira! Jenn
Re: Warning: Immuno-regulin side effects-- Ginger
tuna water? Bonnie inWI - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 3:10 pm Subject: Re: Warning: Immuno-regulin side effects-- Ginger Michelle, Will Ginger lap up liquid? Is she drinking water?
