Re: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help
Hi Gloria, It is suppose to have a kind of hypnotic effect on them to keep them clam, I think it simulates the way a mom kitty holds her kitten, can't say I noticed that with Fred but he figured since he couldn't reach me to bite me anymore it wasn't worth it to try so he stopped after a week, maybe not even that long and he is very mellow ever since getting his fluids. I know he feels better and I think he had figured that out too. Here is the story on it: http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_syringe.htm#clothes_peg_trick PS. the first picture is the kitty without the clothes pins. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help
I have to ask, Belinda - what are the clothes pins for? Have had CRF cats, never tried that. Gloria On Aug 12, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Belinda Sauro wrote: My thoughts on this: It tore my guts out to read about the horrendous things so many of the members were putting their very old, (16 to 19 years old) termininally ill cats through I just want to give another perspective, Fred is 18 or so now, he was 15 when he was diagnosed very early CRF and hyper thyroid, I'm on the CRF list you spoke of and I can't thank all of them for all the support I have gotten to keep Fred going. When I first started doing the fluids he needs daily he would bite me, he didn't like it, but after a week of using clothes pins on him he accepted it and has been getting them for over 2 years with no problems. Did it hurt him to put clothes pins down his neck for a week, no, I tried it on myself first, it felt like pressure but there was no pain, and he still tried to bite me but realised he couldn't reach me anymore and gave up. He also gets pills 4 or 5 times a day and of course he doesn't love it but my way of thinking is if you add it all up for the 30 minutes or so a day that it totals for the time I have to give him pills and fluids, he has lived a good quality of life for 3 more years ... I guarantee you he would have died years ago without my intervention. When anyone animal, person doesn't feel good they don't want to be messed with, I know that from my own experience, when I am sick, I don't want to eat or drink or want anyone to bother me. That doesn't mean I want to die. Once you get over the hump with help from your family and meds and feel better things get back to somewhat normal, as normal as they can be when you have a terminal condition. Yes I know at some point Fred will eventually not do as well and no matter what I do will keep getting worse because I do know CRF doesn't get cured BUT I will do everything I can to keep Fred here with me feeling as well as can be expected with his age and condition. Am I selfish, perhaps, but as you said, this is what I would want for myself, I am not leaving easily when it is my time and everyone that knows me knows that. Fred used to sleep on my pillow every night but I have his bed set up with everything but the litter box right there for him, so he prefers to stay there, he still comes in on occasion and stays a while, then goes back to his room. Do I think he doesn't like me anymore, no, he comes to me many times throughout the day and sits on my chest a few minutes so I can love him but he doesn't like me to give him his pills and if he weren't so lazy and a little weak he probably would run and hide, but it takes all of 10 seconds and it is over. It took a good 8 months or so to get him stable when we first found out he was CRF, he stopped eating and got a feeding tube. He gained back all the weight he lost and and pulled the tube out himself. Up until recently was keeping his weight pretty stable. He is losing weight now, he has virtually no muscle in either back leg and I can see he is getting to the point where things are going to start deteriorating as they do with this condition. I don't know how much longer we have but as long as he enjoys going out to lay in the sun, enjoys spending time with me I will do everything in my power to keep him going. Do I think anything I have done to keep Fred with me is horrendous, no, some people may, but I don't. I have gotten 3 more years of some very good memories with my Fred and I think for the most part Fred has enjoyed being here those 3 extra years. Everyone has their own ideas about quality of life, I personally think some people give up too early because of my beliefs and sometimes it is very hard for me to not say something but then I remember it is their pet and as long as whatever they are doing is out of love for that pet then I really can't say anything. What one person thinks is horrendous is loving and compassionate care to another. We can only do what we think is best for those in our care according to what our beliefs are ... When it is obvious to me that nothing I do will make any difference anymore then I will let Fred go. At some point the body, animal or human just can't go on anymore and when that is evident then I know I have done all I can I won't be happy about it but ... Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help
My thoughts on this: It tore my guts out to read about the horrendous things so many of the members were putting their very old, (16 to 19 years old) termininally ill cats through I just want to give another perspective, Fred is 18 or so now, he was 15 when he was diagnosed very early CRF and hyper thyroid, I'm on the CRF list you spoke of and I can't thank all of them for all the support I have gotten to keep Fred going. When I first started doing the fluids he needs daily he would bite me, he didn't like it, but after a week of using clothes pins on him he accepted it and has been getting them for over 2 years with no problems. Did it hurt him to put clothes pins down his neck for a week, no, I tried it on myself first, it felt like pressure but there was no pain, and he still tried to bite me but realised he couldn't reach me anymore and gave up. He also gets pills 4 or 5 times a day and of course he doesn't love it but my way of thinking is if you add it all up for the 30 minutes or so a day that it totals for the time I have to give him pills and fluids, he has lived a good quality of life for 3 more years ... I guarantee you he would have died years ago without my intervention. When anyone animal, person doesn't feel good they don't want to be messed with, I know that from my own experience, when I am sick, I don't want to eat or drink or want anyone to bother me. That doesn't mean I want to die. Once you get over the hump with help from your family and meds and feel better things get back to somewhat normal, as normal as they can be when you have a terminal condition. Yes I know at some point Fred will eventually not do as well and no matter what I do will keep getting worse because I do know CRF doesn't get cured BUT I will do everything I can to keep Fred here with me feeling as well as can be expected with his age and condition. Am I selfish, perhaps, but as you said, this is what I would want for myself, I am not leaving easily when it is my time and everyone that knows me knows that. Fred used to sleep on my pillow every night but I have his bed set up with everything but the litter box right there for him, so he prefers to stay there, he still comes in on occasion and stays a while, then goes back to his room. Do I think he doesn't like me anymore, no, he comes to me many times throughout the day and sits on my chest a few minutes so I can love him but he doesn't like me to give him his pills and if he weren't so lazy and a little weak he probably would run and hide, but it takes all of 10 seconds and it is over. It took a good 8 months or so to get him stable when we first found out he was CRF, he stopped eating and got a feeding tube. He gained back all the weight he lost and and pulled the tube out himself. Up until recently was keeping his weight pretty stable. He is losing weight now, he has virtually no muscle in either back leg and I can see he is getting to the point where things are going to start deteriorating as they do with this condition. I don't know how much longer we have but as long as he enjoys going out to lay in the sun, enjoys spending time with me I will do everything in my power to keep him going. Do I think anything I have done to keep Fred with me is horrendous, no, some people may, but I don't. I have gotten 3 more years of some very good memories with my Fred and I think for the most part Fred has enjoyed being here those 3 extra years. Everyone has their own ideas about quality of life, I personally think some people give up too early because of my beliefs and sometimes it is very hard for me to not say something but then I remember it is their pet and as long as whatever they are doing is out of love for that pet then I really can't say anything. What one person thinks is horrendous is loving and compassionate care to another. We can only do what we think is best for those in our care according to what our beliefs are ... When it is obvious to me that nothing I do will make any difference anymore then I will let Fred go. At some point the body, animal or human just can't go on anymore and when that is evident then I know I have done all I can I won't be happy about it but ... Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help
it's the red gene, i'm told On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Amy Dalgliesh wrote: > MaryChristine, > What is it about those sassy, fiesty, independant calico girls that makes > us love them so? We must be suckers for punishment, cause they sure do love > to dole it out. One of mine is ancient, weighs less than 6 lbs, toothless > and I still can't pill her. She's the smallest cat of the bunch, but she > can move a 15 lb male from his bowl of canned food just by staring at him. > I'm crazy about her and I celebrate her attitude. > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, MaryChristine wrote: > > > From: MaryChristine > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 11:12 AM > > > i think it's really natural for us to want to try EVERYTHING to help our > beloved ones, even when, sometimes, it's in our best interests and not > really theirs. that's what i believe that i have learned from my cats in > their final days. i know that, early on, i kept some of mine around > longer than i would do now, but not from meanness, rather from lack of > awareness. i had to learn... to separate out their needs from mine, to ask > them what they needed, to truly listen to what they were telling me. > > people learn at different rates; i try very hard (not always successfully, > as those reading another FeLV list can attest) not to judge others' > progress. > > i actually have a kitty in terminal crf right now; she bit the hell out of > me the last two times i tried to hydrate her. she's my remaining heartcat, > and her refusing treatment is killing me--but how can i not honor her > choices, after all she's given me through the years? she's the official > international spokescat for the Calico Liberation Coalition, CaLiCo, a > 4-paw-declawed, harlequin girl that refuses to purr tho will, very > occasionally, practice Rhythmic Growling--to force her to do anything would > be an assault on her very cathood. she's someplace close to 16 years > old, and has blessed my life with bite wounds and attiTUDE for over ten > years now--i adore her, and know completely that in her furry little > multicolored heart, she feels the same way toward me. i will do what is > best for her when her job on this earth is complete; no matter how much it > pains me--i know that she will tell me if she needs help, tho actually i'm > just hoping she'll allow me to be with her when the time comes, and not > just > leave me an email. > > the wisest advice i've ever gotten, though, is that it's best to send them > across the bridge one day too soon, than five minutes too late. feeling > guilty about their, "not being ready," when they weren't yet suffering, is > pointless, but nothing compared to the knowledge that one has waited too > long. > > sometimes, tho, we need to go through the latter to understand. we need to > be gentle with one another as we learn these horrible lessons. and hope > that > what we learn so painfully can help someone else learn them with less > difficulty. > > > > -- > Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! > Maybe That'll Make The Difference > > MaryChristine > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org > ) > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help
MaryChristine, What is it about those sassy, fiesty, independant calico girls that makes us love them so? We must be suckers for punishment, cause they sure do love to dole it out. One of mine is ancient, weighs less than 6 lbs, toothless and I still can't pill her. She's the smallest cat of the bunch, but she can move a 15 lb male from his bowl of canned food just by staring at him. I'm crazy about her and I celebrate her attitude. --- On Wed, 8/12/09, MaryChristine wrote: From: MaryChristine Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 11:12 AM i think it's really natural for us to want to try EVERYTHING to help our beloved ones, even when, sometimes, it's in our best interests and not really theirs. that's what i believe that i have learned from my cats in their final days. i know that, early on, i kept some of mine around longer than i would do now, but not from meanness, rather from lack of awareness. i had to learn... to separate out their needs from mine, to ask them what they needed, to truly listen to what they were telling me. people learn at different rates; i try very hard (not always successfully, as those reading another FeLV list can attest) not to judge others' progress. i actually have a kitty in terminal crf right now; she bit the hell out of me the last two times i tried to hydrate her. she's my remaining heartcat, and her refusing treatment is killing me--but how can i not honor her choices, after all she's given me through the years? she's the official international spokescat for the Calico Liberation Coalition, CaLiCo, a 4-paw-declawed, harlequin girl that refuses to purr tho will, very occasionally, practice Rhythmic Growling--to force her to do anything would be an assault on her very cathood. she's someplace close to 16 years old, and has blessed my life with bite wounds and attiTUDE for over ten years now--i adore her, and know completely that in her furry little multicolored heart, she feels the same way toward me. i will do what is best for her when her job on this earth is complete; no matter how much it pains me--i know that she will tell me if she needs help, tho actually i'm just hoping she'll allow me to be with her when the time comes, and not just leave me an email. the wisest advice i've ever gotten, though, is that it's best to send them across the bridge one day too soon, than five minutes too late. feeling guilty about their, "not being ready," when they weren't yet suffering, is pointless, but nothing compared to the knowledge that one has waited too long. sometimes, tho, we need to go through the latter to understand. we need to be gentle with one another as we learn these horrible lessons. and hope that what we learn so painfully can help someone else learn them with less difficulty. -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help
i think it's really natural for us to want to try EVERYTHING to help our beloved ones, even when, sometimes, it's in our best interests and not really theirs. that's what i believe that i have learned from my cats in their final days. i know that, early on, i kept some of mine around longer than i would do now, but not from meanness, rather from lack of awareness. i had to learn... to separate out their needs from mine, to ask them what they needed, to truly listen to what they were telling me. people learn at different rates; i try very hard (not always successfully, as those reading another FeLV list can attest) not to judge others' progress. i actually have a kitty in terminal crf right now; she bit the hell out of me the last two times i tried to hydrate her. she's my remaining heartcat, and her refusing treatment is killing me--but how can i not honor her choices, after all she's given me through the years? she's the official international spokescat for the Calico Liberation Coalition, CaLiCo, a 4-paw-declawed, harlequin girl that refuses to purr tho will, very occasionally, practice Rhythmic Growling--to force her to do anything would be an assault on her very cathood. she's someplace close to 16 years old, and has blessed my life with bite wounds and attiTUDE for over ten years now--i adore her, and know completely that in her furry little multicolored heart, she feels the same way toward me. i will do what is best for her when her job on this earth is complete; no matter how much it pains me--i know that she will tell me if she needs help, tho actually i'm just hoping she'll allow me to be with her when the time comes, and not just leave me an email. the wisest advice i've ever gotten, though, is that it's best to send them across the bridge one day too soon, than five minutes too late. feeling guilty about their, "not being ready," when they weren't yet suffering, is pointless, but nothing compared to the knowledge that one has waited too long. sometimes, tho, we need to go through the latter to understand. we need to be gentle with one another as we learn these horrible lessons. and hope that what we learn so painfully can help someone else learn them with less difficulty. -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help
Lorrie, Just a comment about CRF kitties. My Pequita was dx with CRF over 3 yrs ago. She'll be 17 this Oct. She has been on meds and daily sub q fluids for most of those 3 yrs. I assist feed her several times per day. She will only eat from a baby spoon. I do the meds, feedings and fluids on her terms and she is doing fine. Often when a kitty crashed they are are very resistant to treatment. It is all new and strange for them. Once the person develops a treatment schedule things usually go a lot better. Like people, cats like to know what is going to happen and when it is going to happen. I just don't want people here to think that treating CRF or any chronic disease should not be attempted. Each kitty is unique and will respond to treatment plans differently. Often members of the CRF group are in a panic mode and are still dealing with a kitty in crisis. You don't know how yours will respond until you try. Whatever problem our beloved companions have we need to remember to love them and treasure each day we have together. Sharyl --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Lorrie wrote: > From: Lorrie > Subject: [Felvtalk] Thank you for your help > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 7:46 AM > Dear Friends, I want to thank all of > you for your help and advice > about the FelV cat in my cageless FelV shelter who is > slowly wasting > away. I really appreciate your caring > responses. I did not want to > take "Mimi" to the vet to be PTS, as it is so stressful for > her, and > you helped me make my decision to just love and comfort her > where she > is now, in her favorite sleeping place. > > Frank, I too am haunted by the memory of taking a dying cat > to the > vet and watching him use what little strength he had left > to fight > going there. It was awful, and unless a cat is in > extreme pain I > will never do this again. > > Maybe I shouldn't comment on this here, but I also have a > cat who > is 16 years old and has the beginnings of CRF, so I joined > the CRF > group, but I only stayed there about a week. It tore > my guts out to > read about the horrendous things so many of the members > were putting > their very old, (16 to 19 years old) termininally ill cats > through > They described how the cats no longer came to them for > love, as they > knew they'd be poked and prodded! It > seemed everyone in the group > was determined to keep their cats alive no matter what they > put them > through. I couldn't stand reading about it, so I dropped > out. The > members of this FelV group seem to have a more realistic > attitude. > We will all die someday, and keeping people or animals > alive on > tubes and needles is not the way I want to leave this > earth! > > Lorrie > > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Thank you for your help
Dear Friends, I want to thank all of you for your help and advice about the FelV cat in my cageless FelV shelter who is slowly wasting away. I really appreciate your caring responses. I did not want to take "Mimi" to the vet to be PTS, as it is so stressful for her, and you helped me make my decision to just love and comfort her where she is now, in her favorite sleeping place. Frank, I too am haunted by the memory of taking a dying cat to the vet and watching him use what little strength he had left to fight going there. It was awful, and unless a cat is in extreme pain I will never do this again. Maybe I shouldn't comment on this here, but I also have a cat who is 16 years old and has the beginnings of CRF, so I joined the CRF group, but I only stayed there about a week. It tore my guts out to read about the horrendous things so many of the members were putting their very old, (16 to 19 years old) termininally ill cats through They described how the cats no longer came to them for love, as they knew they'd be poked and prodded! It seemed everyone in the group was determined to keep their cats alive no matter what they put them through. I couldn't stand reading about it, so I dropped out. The members of this FelV group seem to have a more realistic attitude. We will all die someday, and keeping people or animals alive on tubes and needles is not the way I want to leave this earth! Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
