Re: We are not vets
for many years, none of us had any problem saying, in my opinion, or, this is what my vet recommended, or this is what has worked for me--and newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had been handed to them on stone tablets. there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of proclamations that have become the norm on the list. On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just give your advice to the contrary. This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are still arguing about this! Enough already. Melissa -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *MaryChristine *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: OT: Kitten Question you are prescribing medicine without a license. On 9/25/07, *Susan Dubose* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Caroline, Have the little kittens had a fecal yet? If not, I recommend getting one performed. Coccidia, Giardia spirokettes(?) are all possibilities. Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days even weeks later. Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems. However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that they need. You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the necessary electrolytes that they are losing. Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration. Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck! signed, Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... :) Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Kat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question Hi Caroline, They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi. It tends to wipe out the good gut bacteria with the baddies. Try adding some probiotics to their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to help rebuild the good gut bacteria. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote: Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400 From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: OT: Kitten Question I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I
Re: We are not vets
I'm with MC on this. This has been a problem on other lists that I am on and fortunately the mods are willing to kick people to the curb if they are giving out questionable advice, especially without some sort of express disclaimer. Newbies do not understand that advice may be very wrong. Often they are looking for any glimmer of hope and would willingly buy snake oil if they thought it might save a cat they loved. MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for many years, none of us had any problem saying, in my opinion, or, this is what my vet recommended, or this is what has worked for me--and newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had been handed to them on stone tablets. there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of proclamations that have become the norm on the list. On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just give your advice to the contrary. This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are still arguing about this! Enough already. Melissa - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question you are prescribing medicine without a license. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Caroline, Have the little kittens had a fecal yet? If not, I recommend getting one performed. Coccidia, Giardia spirokettes(?) are all possibilities. Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days even weeks later. Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems. However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that they need. You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the necessary electrolytes that they are losing. Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration. Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck! signed, Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... :) Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Kat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question Hi Caroline, They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi. It tends to wipe out the good gut bacteria with the baddies. Try adding some probiotics to their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to help rebuild the good gut bacteria. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote: Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400 From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: OT: Kitten Question I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the
RE: We are not vets
MC, I was referring to your comment that Susan is not licensed to make those statements. All I was asking was that if you do not agree with what she recommended, that you set us straight instead of continuing the fight. I agree that newcomers may not know when they are getting harmful information. That's why I asked you to give your advice if you think the info is wrong. I believe that no matter how new a newcomer is, he/she would understand that without seeing the cat in question, no diagnosis could be made by anyone. Even if someone believed there were vets on this list, anyone with common sense would know that a doctor cannot make a diagnosis sight unseen. I was intimidated by your comment, you are prescribing medicine without a license because I often give advice on this site from my own experiences-which are not backed up by any license. I wanted to make sure that you didn't turn your wrath on me, yet you did anyway. I'm sorry if I've misunderstood your tone in that post-email is difficult that way. Argh, why do I keep getting sucked into this bickering?! ML _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: We are not vets for many years, none of us had any problem saying, in my opinion, or, this is what my vet recommended, or this is what has worked for me--and newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had been handed to them on stone tablets. there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of proclamations that have become the norm on the list. On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just give your advice to the contrary. This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are still arguing about this! Enough already. Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question you are prescribing medicine without a license. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Caroline, Have the little kittens had a fecal yet? If not, I recommend getting one performed. Coccidia, Giardia spirokettes(?) are all possibilities. Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days even weeks later. Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems. However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that they need. You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the necessary electrolytes that they are losing. Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration. Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck! signed, Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... :) Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Kat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: Re: OT: Kitten
RE: We are not vets
Why don't we all just drop this and move on?
Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:v\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }MC,
I was referring to your comment that Susan is not licensed to make those
statements. All I was asking was that if you do not agree with what she
recommended, that you set us straight instead of continuing the fight. I agree
that newcomers may not know when they are getting harmful information. Thats
why I asked you to give your advice if you think the info is wrong. I believe
that no matter how new a newcomer is, he/she would understand that without
seeing the cat in question, no diagnosis could be made by anyone. Even if
someone believed there were vets on this list, anyone with common sense would
know that a doctor cannot make a diagnosis sight unseen.
I was intimidated by your comment, you are prescribing medicine without a
license because I often give advice on this site from my own experienceswhich
are not backed up by any license. I wanted to make sure that you didnt turn
your wrath on me, yet you did anyway. Im sorry if Ive misunderstood your tone
in that postemail is difficult that way.
Argh, why do I keep getting sucked into this bickering?!
ML
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:07 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: We are not vets
for many years, none of us had any problem saying, in my opinion, or, this
is what my vet recommended, or this is what has worked for me--and
newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know when
they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been DANGEROUS, in
some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on this list in the
past few months by people who presented it as if it had been handed to them on
stone tablets.
there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of proclamations
that have become the norm on the list.
On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this
community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is
understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person
does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak
up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL
know, there are so many varied experiences with many different ailments that it
helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the
be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can with
what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the suggestions of veteran members
are appreciated, and the variety of opinions is valuable. If you do not agree
with the suggestions below, please just give your advice to the contrary.
This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's
list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is
unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are still
arguing about this! Enough already.
Melissa
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question
you are prescribing medicine without a license.
On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Caroline,
Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?
If not, I recommend getting one performed.
Coccidia, Giardia spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.
Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one
of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days
even weeks later.
Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their
weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems.
However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense.
Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will
help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that
they need.
You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the
necessary electrolytes that they are losing.
Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.
Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!
signed,
Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual...
:)
Susan J. DuBose ^..^
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
www.shadowcats.net
As Cleopatra lay in state
RE: We are not vets
Yes, I understand this, but isn't this why Phaewryn or Jennifer or whoever left a while back? If I remember right, she was disgusted by the use of Animal Communicators because they are not scientifically proven, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she felt that suggesting the use of an AC does more harm than good since science is being abandoned for what some consider to be a scam or a witchdoctor or whatever. I have no experience with ACs, so these are not my views, but I remember people ganging up on her several months ago when she was trying to debunk what she thought was harmful information. I completely understand what you guys mean, but I just thought that the comment by MC was merely an extension of the fight and nothing more. I apologize for any misunderstanding. Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:16 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: We are not vets I'm with MC on this. This has been a problem on other lists that I am on and fortunately the mods are willing to kick people to the curb if they are giving out questionable advice, especially without some sort of express disclaimer. Newbies do not understand that advice may be very wrong. Often they are looking for any glimmer of hope and would willingly buy snake oil if they thought it might save a cat they loved. MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for many years, none of us had any problem saying, in my opinion, or, this is what my vet recommended, or this is what has worked for me--and newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had been handed to them on stone tablets. there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of proclamations that have become the norm on the list. On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just give your advice to the contrary. This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are still arguing about this! Enough already. Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question you are prescribing medicine without a license. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Caroline, Have the little kittens had a fecal yet? If not, I recommend getting one performed. Coccidia, Giardia spirokettes(?) are all possibilities. Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days even weeks later. Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems. However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that they need. You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the necessary electrolytes that they are losing. Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration. Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck! signed, Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... :) Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com http://www.petgirlspetsitting.com/ www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org http://www.tx.siameserescue.org/ www.shadowcats.net http://www.shadowcats.net/ As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause
Re: We are not vets
Phaewryn was taking a break. She isn't good at regulating her words so much, but she IS good at knowing when she needs to step back in order to not become disruptive. IMHO. On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I understand this, but isn't this why Phaewryn or Jennifer or whoever left a while back? If I remember right, she was disgusted by the use of Animal Communicators because they are not scientifically proven, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she felt that suggesting the use of an AC does more harm than good since science is being abandoned for what some consider to be a scam or a witchdoctor or whatever. I have no experience with ACs, so these are not my views, but I remember people ganging up on her several months ago when she was trying to debunk what she thought was harmful information. I completely understand what you guys mean, but I just thought that the comment by MC was merely an extension of the fight and nothing more. I apologize for any misunderstanding. Melissa From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:16 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: We are not vets I'm with MC on this. This has been a problem on other lists that I am on and fortunately the mods are willing to kick people to the curb if they are giving out questionable advice, especially without some sort of express disclaimer. Newbies do not understand that advice may be very wrong. Often they are looking for any glimmer of hope and would willingly buy snake oil if they thought it might save a cat they loved. MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for many years, none of us had any problem saying, in my opinion, or, this is what my vet recommended, or this is what has worked for me--and newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had been handed to them on stone tablets. there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of proclamations that have become the norm on the list. On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just give your advice to the contrary. This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to Michael's list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the drama is unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we are still arguing about this! Enough already. Melissa From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question you are prescribing medicine without a license. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Caroline, Have the little kittens had a fecal yet? If not, I recommend getting one performed. Coccidia, Giardia spirokettes(?) are all possibilities. Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days even weeks later. Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems. However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that they need. You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the necessary electrolytes that they are losing. Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration. Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck! signed, Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... :) Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
