Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-18 Thread Sharyl
Amy, mine had regular blood work.  I did not do the specific B12 test,  I used 
the vitamins/supplements based on their HCT nos.  A cat needs the B's, folic 
acid and iron to produce new red blood cells.  The B's and folic acid are water 
soluble so overdosing isn't an issue.  Iron should not be supplemented unless 
there is a deficiency.

You could be right.  This is from
http://www.petplace.com/cats/anemia-in-cats/page1.aspx
Regenerative anemia is caused by either blood loss or hemolyis (red cell 
destruction). Non-regenerative anemia is seen with either acute (very sudden) 
anemia of any cause, bone marrow disease, iron deficiency, or bone marrow 
suppression secondary to chronic disease or kidney failure. Performing a 
reticulocyte count is therefore very useful in narrowing down the causes of the 
anemia.

To build on what others have said, I tend to throw the kitchen sink at whatever 
the problem is.  There is no 100% guarantee on anything in life.  If there is a 
chance it could help then I will try it.  My sweet Albert (advanced CRF, 
anemia, CHF, severe HCM, severe periodontal disease) was given days/weeks by 
his various vets.  He enjoyed another 1 1/2 yrs because we didn't believe the 
vets and didn't give up.

You have to make the decision on what is best for your cat.  We are dealing 
with a chronic disease.  There is no cure.  We do the best we can to manage it 
and provide a loving life to our beloved companions.  Untreated anemia can 
eventually kill a cat but many cats respond to a treatment plan.  

Sharyl

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote:

 From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 10:22 PM
  Amy, I have not used epogen for
 a CRF
  or FeLV kitty though I have had both with anemia.  
  
  There is a Yahoo Anemia group that may be able to
 answer
  some of your questions about the risks of using epogen
 or
  Darbepoetin.
  http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/
 
 I was part of this group for quite some time but couldn't
 find anybody using Epogen, with success, for a leuk positive
 kitty.  
    
  I used vitamins and supplements (B12, Super B Complex
 and
  Folic Acid) to manage chronic anemia. 
 
 Did you do any tests to see if the cat was low in B12 or
 did you just use the vitamins and supplements?  I have
 had Wolfie tested and everything is fine but my vet wants to
 check it once more (it's been a few months) at his next
 routine blood draw.  We discussed B12 injections and
 have discussed vitamins/supplements.  We are going to
 address this again after seeing his bloodwork.  
 
  I do agree that if the kidneys are producing
 erythropoietin
  but the bone marrow is not responding then giving
 epogen
  shots would not be beneficial.  I have not heard it
  called nonregenative anemia when the kidneys are
 producing
  erythropoietin.  
  Sharyl
 
 My understanding is that erythropoietin is made and
 released by the kidneys.  In a cat with damaged
 kidneys, sufficient erythropoietin can't be produced. 
 In a leuk positive cat with healthy kidneys, erythropoietin
 is still being produced but the bone marrow is unable to
 respond.  I think it's still nonregenerative if new red
 blood cells aren't being made.  Does anybody know if my
 understanding is correct here?
  
 
 
 
       
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-18 Thread Amy
Hi Belinda,

    I'll give her the
 benefit of the doubt, but what exactly is she basing her
 information that FeLV+'s have such a bad experience with
 using epogen, because I have not heard of any studies that
 have been done on this to bear that out and if there is one
 I would like the reference so I can look into it and give it
 to my vet.

I think she was basing it on her experience using Epogen to treat cats with 
leukemia.  I could be wrong on that.  She talked about how she has seen a case 
or two where it helped despite there being no reason it should but she saw far 
more cases where irreversible damage was done and the cat was actually worse 
off than before the Epogen.  She is fine with me trying LTCI or some of the 
stuff that she agrees doesn't pose a risk but she definitely feels that Epogen 
can do harm.  I don't know what I think yet, just relaying her thoughts.  The 
one thing she said that I can't stop thinking about is that these cats are 
immune compromised and a lot of these treatments are introducing foreign 
substances into their body which can alter an already very delicate balance.  
So much to think about...
 
 Amy never be afraid to say anything on this list, all I am
 saying is that in my experience your vets information is
 incorrect about the use of epogen.   Both
 from other people experiences that I know of that have
 FeLV+'s and from my vets experiences.

Definitely worth knowing!  The more info I have the better.  I just feel like 
sometimes this list is pretty hard on vets.  I genuinely feel this one is 
treating my cat like she would treat her own.  She's not my vet so I have no 
reason to try to defend her.  I went to Cornell for a 2nd opinion to see if 
there is anything else I could possibly try to save Wolfie.  If anything I 
would think they would be telling me to try one thing after another because 
they would be making a whole lot more money off me than they are now.  I really 
think this vet is trying to help me give Wolfie the best quality of life for 
the longest time possible.

 And there isn't a lot of information out there because most
 vets won't even try it and I am not lying when I say most
 vets are terrified of epogen in general and have no idea how
 to use it because in vet school they are taught that 30% or
 better of cats using it will have an adverse reaction to
 it.  That is old information and most vets who actually
 use it on a regular basis, mostly on CRF cats say that
 number is closer to 10% or less and only after 5 months or
 longer of use.

I'll have to inquire more about her experience using it and what she is basing 
her info on.
 
 And everyone here knows I have no love for Cornell, their
 information about FeLV had always been outdated and in my
 opinion inaccurate.  And years ago when most vets knew
 little to nothing about FeLV, their outdated information
 caused many positive, healthy cats their lives since they
 were then the only veterinary site with the most info out
 there about FeLV+, no matter it was inaccurate.

I wasn't aware of that.  They were very receptive to helping my cat and never 
once gave me the impression that he should be treated any different than any 
other cat with any other issue.  

  *Secondary viremia*, a later stage characterized by
 persistent infection of the bone marrow and other tissue. If
 FeLV infection progresses to this stage it has passed a
 point of no return: the overwhelming majority of cats with
 secondary viremia will be infected for the remainder of
 their lives.
 
 It says it is to the point of no return but *ONLY the
 majority of cats* will remain infected for the remainder of
 their lives, doesn't add up, if it is to the point of no
 return then *ALL of those cats* would be infected the
 remainder of their lives.  Guess they got to cover
 their butts in case a cat does fight off secondary
 viremia.  I have heard of one cat that did but have no
 proof so can't say it has or hasn't happened.

I see where that statement can be confusing.

 In my opinion because they won't spend the money to do
 those tests, but if you talk with many people using one or
 another of these treatments most are having good results, so
 since there isn't scientific evidence because no studies
 have been done, well I personally will go with people with
 positives that have experience using these types of
 treatments, but if you tell anyone at Cornell that, I'm
 pretty sure they will poo poo it and tell you it is a waste
 of your time and money.

Actually she was fine with me trying anything other than Epogen.   However she 
presented me several studies on interferon and several other options that 
showed no benefit in the treated group.  We discussed Wolfie's  quality of life 
and decided that I can't mess with a good thing when there is not one study 
that shows these things help.  I posted to this group to see if anybody has 
been able to save a cat with nonregenerative anemia using any of the treatments 
ever 

Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Amy
Hi Belinda,

I do know Bailey's story well and honestly you are one of the only stories I've 
heard with positive results (not to say there aren't a lot more good ones out 
there, that's why I'm asking).  Your story keeps me wondering if I should try 
it despite the warnings.  I'm so glad you had these results with Epogen.  I 
actually had the vet research WHY it could possibly help a leuk positive cat 
because of your story.  I can't find one vet that can explain why it could 
possibly help since a leuk positive cat is normally making erythropoietin just 
fine on it's own.  That's not to say it has never helped.  She has heard of 
cases but said there is no biological/medical reason it should help .  Does 
anybody know how or why it might help a cat with nonregenerative anemia?

I just want to say that the vet that told me this is most likely not flat out 
lying.  She is a highly recommended internal med from Cornell University.  She 
has been absolutely wonderful and has researched everything I've asked her 
about extensively.  When I asked her about Epogen she didn't have to research 
it because she did have experience with it, with cats with CRF and cats 
without.  I did A LOT of searching of all the medical facilities within 
hundreds of miles to find a specialist that actually deals with leukemia and 
treats cats with it regularly.  Many vets in my area have never even seen a 
positive cat other than the ones they euthanize.  I've lost one cat after 
another to leukemia and despite trying one thing after another, have never been 
able to bring one back from nonregenerative anemia.  My cat that is currently 
being treated by Cornell is stable and holding his own 6 months after being 
diagnosed.  I don't believe that would be the case
 without her help.  I totally understand people on here feeling that most vets 
know nothing about leukemia but I just wanted to say that I spent A LOT of time 
and effort trying to locate a vet that would do the best possible job for this 
cat and it stings a bit to hear somebody say she is flat out lying to me or 
doesn't know how to use Epogen.  Anyways, I don't post on here a lot and was 
nervous about saying anything about my fears of Epogen because I thought it 
might ruffle some feathers.  I just couldn't at least throw it out there 
because I personally would feel awful if I did something to speed up how 
quickly this disease can take down a positive cat.  I really think each person 
needs to do what they are comfortable with and I just wanted to throw out what 
I heard on the off chance it is accurate.

I'd love to hear from others that have tried Epogen too.

Amy

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote:

 From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 12:58 AM
    Amy,
   This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using it
 correctly.
 
 It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and that
 reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would continue
 to go down, in some cases this is because the dose isn't
 high enough, a few kitties need higher than the standard
 dose.  But of course the vets freak out and assume the
 cat is having a reaction.  So many vets are terrified
 of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if it
 isn't working you would be right back where you started. 
 It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would fall
 into this category and of those it takes 5 months or longer
 of use for this to happen.
 
 I know many, many people who have used it and only know of
 one cat that is was suspected had this happen and I honestly
 don't think that was the problem, I think that cat wasn't
 getting a high enough dose.  Most of these cats are CRF
 but a few aren't and were anemic because of cancer or
 something else.
 
 I've told Bailey's story more than once, he was positive,
 he became anemic and once his HCT got to 20%, I decided to
 try epogen, I think he was barely regenerative but honestly
 it has been so long I can't remember.  He did not have
 kidney disease.
 
 By the time we got the epogen in it took a few days, he had
 gone to 18% and once we started it went down to 15%, it took
 about 6 weeks to get his HCT to 40% which is a little
 quicker than you would like but he was fine and his HCT was
 still normal at 33%, 34% 5 months later when he died of
 pancreatic cancer.
 
 You do have to monitor the blood pressure because it can go
 high, Bailey's did the opposite and got low but we had no
 problems with the epogen.
 
 My vet has used it several times with FeLV+ cats and had
 luck with it.
 
 -- 
 Belinda
 happiness is being owned by cats ...
 
 http://bemikitties.com
 
 http://BelindaSauro.com
 
 
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 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Belinda Sauro
   I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, but what exactly is she 
basing her information that FeLV+'s have such a bad experience with 
using epogen, because I have not heard of any studies that have been 
done on this to bear that out and if there is one I would like the 
reference so I can look into it and give it to my vet.


Amy never be afraid to say anything on this list, all I am saying is 
that in my experience your vets information is incorrect about the use 
of epogen.   Both from other people experiences that I know of that have 
FeLV+'s and from my vets experiences.


And there isn't a lot of information out there because most vets won't 
even try it and I am not lying when I say most vets are terrified of 
epogen in general and have no idea how to use it because in vet school 
they are taught that 30% or better of cats using it will have an adverse 
reaction to it.  That is old information and most vets who actually use 
it on a regular basis, mostly on CRF cats say that number is closer to 
10% or less and only after 5 months or longer of use.


And everyone here knows I have no love for Cornell, their information 
about FeLV had always been outdated and in my opinion inaccurate.  And 
years ago when most vets knew little to nothing about FeLV, their 
outdated information caused many positive, healthy cats their lives 
since they were then the only veterinary site with the most info out 
there about FeLV+, no matter it was inaccurate.


I see they have updated their info, still not perfect in my eyes but 
much better than it was years ago when people were freaking out about it:


This statement however is contradictory:

*Secondary viremia*, a later stage characterized by persistent 
infection of the bone marrow and other tissue. If FeLV infection 
progresses to this stage it has passed a point of no return: the 
overwhelming majority of cats with secondary viremia will be infected 
for the remainder of their lives.


It says it is to the point of no return but *ONLY the majority of cats* 
will remain infected for the remainder of their lives, doesn't add up, 
if it is to the point of no return then *ALL of those cats* would be 
infected the remainder of their lives.  Guess they got to cover their 
butts in case a cat does fight off secondary viremia.  I have heard of 
one cat that did but have no proof so can't say it has or hasn't happened.


*This is on their website:*
There is no scientific evidence that alternative, immunomodulator, or 
antiviral medications have any positive benefits on the health or 
longevity of healthy infected cats.


*Why is that?*

In my opinion because they won't spend the money to do those tests, but 
if you talk with many people using one or another of these treatments 
most are having good results, so since there isn't scientific evidence 
because no studies have been done, well I personally will go with people 
with positives that have experience using these types of treatments, but 
if you tell anyone at Cornell that, I'm pretty sure they will poo poo it 
and tell you it is a waste of your time and money.


*And this is my way of thinking and only my opinion.*  If my furkid has 
something that IS going to kill them if I do nothing, *or if what I am 
trying isn't working*, but there is something I can try that may work 
... I am going to try it.  If the options are for sure death and 
possible life, I'm going for the possible life, the out come is going to 
be the same if it doesn't work, but if there is a 1% chance it may work, 
I'm going for that 1% chance.  And thank god my vet knows me well enough 
to know that.  Now if she strongly feels that what I want to do is going 
to hurt my furkid she will argue with me but if she can't convince me, 
she knows I will go somewhere else to find a vet that will work with 
me.  If she can convince me then I won't do it.


My vet isn't perfect and she has made mistakes and there have been times 
when I didn't go with my gut and to be honest one of those times was 
when I felt Bailey had pancreatitis because of how he was acting when I 
fed him.  I asked my vet if it were possible and she said no she didn't 
think so because his gloucose and amylese didn't bear that out, well it 
doesn't always affect those values and in Baileys case my NOT insisting 
on a specific pancreatitis test probably cost him his life, because he 
died from pancreatic cancer, so he probably did have pancreatitis and 
left untreated it turned into cancer, and if that isn't the case that 
not treating it would have kept it from turning into cancer, if the 
cancer was already there at the very least doing the pancreatitis test 
would almost certainly have found the cancer and we could have treated it.


So I am sorry if I am coming off so strongly but if I can save one life 
because of the mistakes I made with Bailey it is worth it to me.


No vet is right 100% of the time and anyone who thinks they are is 
asking for trouble, my vet was wrong 

Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Belinda Sauro
Here is some good info on anemia, it is from the CRF site but it 
explains some of the blood work results of an anemic cat and what they 
mean and anemia is anemia:


http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#reticulocytes

--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

http://bemikitties.com

http://BelindaSauro.com


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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Hotmail Junk

Amy,
Never give up and try everything you can. We were told our cat had 2  
weeks to live  that was 1.5 years ago! He is FeLV negative now,  
however we deal with the anemia.


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:00 AM, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote:


Hi Belinda,

I do know Bailey's story well and honestly you are one of the only  
stories I've heard with positive results (not to say there aren't a  
lot more good ones out there, that's why I'm asking).  Your story  
keeps me wondering if I should try it despite the warnings.  I'm so  
glad you had these results with Epogen.  I actually had the vet  
research WHY it could possibly help a leuk positive cat because of  
your story.  I can't find one vet that can explain why it could  
possibly help since a leuk positive cat is normally making  
erythropoietin just fine on it's own.  That's not to say it has  
never helped.  She has heard of cases but said there is no  
biological/medical reason it should help .  Does anybody know how or  
why it might help a cat with nonregenerative anemia?


I just want to say that the vet that told me this is most likely not  
flat out lying.  She is a highly recommended internal med from  
Cornell University.  She has been absolutely wonderful and has  
researched everything I've asked her about extensively.  When I  
asked her about Epogen she didn't have to research it because she  
did have experience with it, with cats with CRF and cats without.  I  
did A LOT of searching of all the medical facilities within hundreds  
of miles to find a specialist that actually deals with leukemia and  
treats cats with it regularly.  Many vets in my area have never even  
seen a positive cat other than the ones they euthanize.  I've lost  
one cat after another to leukemia and despite trying one thing after  
another, have never been able to bring one back from nonregenerative  
anemia.  My cat that is currently being treated by Cornell is stable  
and holding his own 6 months after being diagnosed.  I don't believe  
that would be the case
without her help.  I totally understand people on here feeling that  
most vets know nothing about leukemia but I just wanted to say that  
I spent A LOT of time and effort trying to locate a vet that would  
do the best possible job for this cat and it stings a bit to hear  
somebody say she is flat out lying to me or doesn't know how to use  
Epogen.  Anyways, I don't post on here a lot and was nervous about  
saying anything about my fears of Epogen because I thought it might  
ruffle some feathers.  I just couldn't at least throw it out there  
because I personally would feel awful if I did something to speed up  
how quickly this disease can take down a positive cat.  I really  
think each person needs to do what they are comfortable with and I  
just wanted to throw out what I heard on the off chance it is  
accurate.


I'd love to hear from others that have tried Epogen too.

Amy

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote:


From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 12:58 AM
   Amy,
  This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using it
correctly.

It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and that
reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would continue
to go down, in some cases this is because the dose isn't
high enough, a few kitties need higher than the standard
dose.  But of course the vets freak out and assume the
cat is having a reaction.  So many vets are terrified
of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if it
isn't working you would be right back where you started.
It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would fall
into this category and of those it takes 5 months or longer
of use for this to happen.

I know many, many people who have used it and only know of
one cat that is was suspected had this happen and I honestly
don't think that was the problem, I think that cat wasn't
getting a high enough dose.  Most of these cats are CRF
but a few aren't and were anemic because of cancer or
something else.

I've told Bailey's story more than once, he was positive,
he became anemic and once his HCT got to 20%, I decided to
try epogen, I think he was barely regenerative but honestly
it has been so long I can't remember.  He did not have
kidney disease.

By the time we got the epogen in it took a few days, he had
gone to 18% and once we started it went down to 15%, it took
about 6 weeks to get his HCT to 40% which is a little
quicker than you would like but he was fine and his HCT was
still normal at 33%, 34% 5 months later when he died of
pancreatic cancer.

You do have to monitor the blood pressure because it can go
high, Bailey's did the opposite and got low but we had no
problems with the epogen.

My vet has used it several times with FeLV+ cats and had
luck with it.

--
Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

http

Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Sharyl
Amy, I have not used epogen for a CRF or FeLV kitty though I have had both with 
anemia.  

There is a Yahoo Anemia group that may be able to answer some of your questions 
about the risks of using epogen or Darbepoetin.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/

I used vitamins and supplements (B12, Super B Complex and Folic Acid) to manage 
chronic anemia. 

I do agree that if the kidneys are producing erythropoietin but the bone marrow 
is not responding then giving epogen shots would not be beneficial.  I have not 
heard it called nonregenative anemia when the kidneys are producing 
erythropoietin.  
Sharyl

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote:

 From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 9:00 AM
 Hi Belinda,
 
 I do know Bailey's story well and honestly you are one of
 the only stories I've heard with positive results (not to
 say there aren't a lot more good ones out there, that's why
 I'm asking).  Your story keeps me wondering if I should
 try it despite the warnings.  I'm so glad you had these
 results with Epogen.  I actually had the vet research
 WHY it could possibly help a leuk positive cat because of
 your story.  I can't find one vet that can explain why
 it could possibly help since a leuk positive cat is normally
 making erythropoietin just fine on it's own.  That's
 not to say it has never helped.  She has heard of cases
 but said there is no biological/medical reason it should
 help .  Does anybody know how or why it might help a
 cat with nonregenerative anemia?    
 
 I just want to say that the vet that told me this is most
 likely not flat out lying.  She is a highly recommended
 internal med from Cornell University.  She has been
 absolutely wonderful and has researched everything I've
 asked her about extensively.  When I asked her about
 Epogen she didn't have to research it because she did have
 experience with it, with cats with CRF and cats
 without.  I did A LOT of searching of all the medical
 facilities within hundreds of miles to find a specialist
 that actually deals with leukemia and treats cats with it
 regularly.  Many vets in my area have never even seen a
 positive cat other than the ones they euthanize.  I've
 lost one cat after another to leukemia and despite trying
 one thing after another, have never been able to bring one
 back from nonregenerative anemia.  My cat that is
 currently being treated by Cornell is stable and holding his
 own 6 months after being diagnosed.  I don't believe
 that would be the case
  without her help.  I totally understand people on
 here feeling that most vets know nothing about leukemia but
 I just wanted to say that I spent A LOT of time and effort
 trying to locate a vet that would do the best possible job
 for this cat and it stings a bit to hear somebody say she is
 flat out lying to me or doesn't know how to use
 Epogen.  Anyways, I don't post on here a lot and was
 nervous about saying anything about my fears of Epogen
 because I thought it might ruffle some feathers.  I
 just couldn't at least throw it out there because I
 personally would feel awful if I did something to speed up
 how quickly this disease can take down a positive cat. 
 I really think each person needs to do what they are
 comfortable with and I just wanted to throw out what I heard
 on the off chance it is accurate.
 
 I'd love to hear from others that have tried Epogen too.
 
 Amy
 
 --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
 wrote:
 
  From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 12:58 AM
     Amy,
    This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using
 it
  correctly.
  
  It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and
 that
  reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would
 continue
  to go down, in some cases this is because the dose
 isn't
  high enough, a few kitties need higher than the
 standard
  dose.  But of course the vets freak out and assume
 the
  cat is having a reaction.  So many vets are
 terrified
  of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if
 it
  isn't working you would be right back where you
 started. 
  It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would
 fall
  into this category and of those it takes 5 months or
 longer
  of use for this to happen.
  
  I know many, many people who have used it and only
 know of
  one cat that is was suspected had this happen and I
 honestly
  don't think that was the problem, I think that cat
 wasn't
  getting a high enough dose.  Most of these cats are
 CRF
  but a few aren't and were anemic because of cancer or
  something else.
  
  I've told Bailey's story more than once, he was
 positive,
  he became anemic and once his HCT got to 20%, I
 decided to
  try epogen, I think he was barely regenerative but
 honestly
  it has been so

Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Amy
 Amy, I have not used epogen for a CRF
 or FeLV kitty though I have had both with anemia.  
 
 There is a Yahoo Anemia group that may be able to answer
 some of your questions about the risks of using epogen or
 Darbepoetin.
 http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/

I was part of this group for quite some time but couldn't find anybody using 
Epogen, with success, for a leuk positive kitty.  
   
 I used vitamins and supplements (B12, Super B Complex and
 Folic Acid) to manage chronic anemia. 

Did you do any tests to see if the cat was low in B12 or did you just use the 
vitamins and supplements?  I have had Wolfie tested and everything is fine but 
my vet wants to check it once more (it's been a few months) at his next routine 
blood draw.  We discussed B12 injections and have discussed 
vitamins/supplements.  We are going to address this again after seeing his 
bloodwork.  

 I do agree that if the kidneys are producing erythropoietin
 but the bone marrow is not responding then giving epogen
 shots would not be beneficial.  I have not heard it
 called nonregenative anemia when the kidneys are producing
 erythropoietin.  
 Sharyl

My understanding is that erythropoietin is made and released by the kidneys.  
In a cat with damaged kidneys, sufficient erythropoietin can't be produced.  In 
a leuk positive cat with healthy kidneys, erythropoietin is still being 
produced but the bone marrow is unable to respond.  I think it's still 
nonregenerative if new red blood cells aren't being made.  Does anybody know if 
my understanding is correct here?
 



  

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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Amy
Not sure if this is for me or not but Wolfie has been tested and was fine.  I 
had him on an iron supplement for several months anyways just in case it might 
help.

Amy
--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote:

 From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 11:55 AM
 PS.  Has she tested his iron to
 see if that is low, many anemic acts are low in iron?
 
 -- 
 Belinda
 happiness is being owned by cats ...
 
 http://bemikitties.com
 
 http://BelindaSauro.com
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-16 Thread Hotmail Junk
When gray cat was first diagnosed his hct was at 9. He is currently on  
a very high dose of Pred  a chemo drug called Chlorambucil. We are  
getting ready to take him off the chemo drug  start cyclosporin   
once again try to slowly reduce his pred. We did interferon  LTCI  
injections. He test negative now for FeLV. There is always a 3-4 week  
lag time before you start to see the increase in the Hematocrit with  
Pred. We have been going through this since Sept. 2008.


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 13, 2010, at 8:17 AM, Frank  Sue Koren  
fs...@roadrunner.com wrote:



Hello all;
Casper is my symptomatic cat that became positive because I mixed my  
positives and negatives.  I wondered if somehow I had missed his  
vaccinataion last year.  I asked the vet to double check and as I  
thought he was not even due for his next vaccination until April.   
Anyway, he is now anemic and we are trying to deal with that.  He  
has been getting Prednosolone and Doxycycline for about a week and a  
half without improvement.  His count was 19 when he was tested two  
weeks ago.  I took him today for a PCV and don't have the results  
yet. He also got an iron shot.  I asked about Epogen.  My vet calls  
it Arithro proeatin (I know I botched the spelling of that.) He is  
also looking into Interferon.  Has anyone had experience with these  
with an anemic positive cat?
Now that my decision to mix has make Casper become positive I want  
to do whatever I can for him.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-16 Thread Ashley Vanover
When Kong was first diagnosed his count was at 7 and he had two blood  
transfusions to get him back up to a healthy level. He has  
nonregenerative anemia. He's been on a gradually decreasing dosage of  
pred and a week on/week off schedule of 1ml of Interferon for the past  
6 months. He gets his blood tested every month, and so far, his counts  
have been in the normal, healthy range.


My vet is very young, and Kong is her first FeLV+ cat. She told me  
that Interferon could not hurt him, but might not help either.  
However, it seems to be doing something.


Kong is going for a check up at a specialist this Friday, or what I  
like to call, Dr. McSuperExpensive, and he will be able to tell me  
more than my vet about exactly what is helping and how it is working.  
I'll be sure to update and let everyone know what he says.


--Ashley

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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-16 Thread MaryChristine
sue, was casper ever double tested to make sure he was actually negative? a
single negative test means no more than a single positive test does: unless
we know for sure when the last possible date of exposure was, and do a final
test 90-120 days after that, we cannot know that any cat is truly negative.
this is how my cats all become exposed back in 2000--my housemate, the
shelter director, brought in a beautiful little girl who'd tested negative.
we didn't know to retest back then, and didn't. she became symptomatic less
than a year later.

as far as i know, there are no cases of an actually negative cat (tested
twice) who has been vaccinated ever becoming positive from living with
positives. don't blame yourself for something that you probably DIDN'T do.

MC

-- 
Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-16 Thread Hotmail Junk
Thankfully, my Gray Kitty, has been negative for over 7-8 months now.   
All specialists have said we can now stop testing him monthly.


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:23 PM, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com  
wrote:


sue, was casper ever double tested to make sure he was actually  
negative? a
single negative test means no more than a single positive test does:  
unless
we know for sure when the last possible date of exposure was, and do  
a final
test 90-120 days after that, we cannot know that any cat is truly  
negative.

this is how my cats all become exposed back in 2000--my housemate, the
shelter director, brought in a beautiful little girl who'd tested  
negative.
we didn't know to retest back then, and didn't. she became  
symptomatic less

than a year later.

as far as i know, there are no cases of an actually negative cat  
(tested

twice) who has been vaccinated ever becoming positive from living with
positives. don't blame yourself for something that you probably  
DIDN'T do.


MC

--
Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org 
)

Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-16 Thread Frank Sue Koren
I can't remember now what the time frame was. He was tested at his first vet 
visit after I adopted him but I don't remember how long that was after I 
brought him home.  Normally I take a newly adopted cat right in to be 
checked but it has been about four years...
Today I called my vet back and told him I wanted the Epogen because I wasn't 
going to just sit back and watch him die.  He called a prescription in to 
Walgreens and they had to order it.  I will pick it up after work tomorrow 
along with the syringes and give him his first injection tomorrow evening. 
My vet also contacted another vet he knows who had Imulan in stock and I am 
going to pick that up Thursday after work.  I didn't realise that Epogen and 
Imulan could be given concurrently.  Who knows, maybe there is some hope for 
my beautiful white fluffy boy after all.

Sue
- Original Message - 
From: MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?


sue, was casper ever double tested to make sure he was actually negative? 
a
single negative test means no more than a single positive test does: 
unless
we know for sure when the last possible date of exposure was, and do a 
final
test 90-120 days after that, we cannot know that any cat is truly 
negative.

this is how my cats all become exposed back in 2000--my housemate, the
shelter director, brought in a beautiful little girl who'd tested 
negative.
we didn't know to retest back then, and didn't. she became symptomatic 
less

than a year later.

as far as i know, there are no cases of an actually negative cat (tested
twice) who has been vaccinated ever becoming positive from living with
positives. don't blame yourself for something that you probably DIDN'T do.

MC

--
Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue 
(www.purebredcats.org)

Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-16 Thread Amy
Hi Sue,

Just wanted to ask what Casper's HCT is right now?  Does he have CRF?  I have 
looked into Epogen as well and know some people swear by it.  I don't want to 
contradict anything you've heard but just wanted to offer up another thing to 
consider.  The specialist I talked to said all of the treatments mentioned on 
this list, that is the only one she would never use.  She said that while a 
positive may respond well to it, the chance of doing irreversible harm is high. 
 I know that is controversial but she said she has seen one cat after another 
react to it.  She said that is is really tough to reverse the damage if the cat 
does react and not a risk she would ever take.  I don't know where I stand on 
Epogen because I have heard such completely opposing views on it.  I don't 
judge those that use it nor do I judge those who won't go near it.  Just wanted 
to present what I was told in case it could help in any way.  I hope whatever 
you try works wonders for
 Casper!

What have other people heard/experienced with Epogen?  I know that if a cat has 
nonregenerative anemia, has a HCT below 20, etc. the idea is sometimes that the 
cat is going to die anyways so what's the harm in trying something that could 
cause a reaction or might not.  What I don't get is the reason behind using 
Epogen for a cat that is not in renal failure.  If the cat is producing 
erythropoietin fine, what could the Epogen do to help?  I'd love to hear more 
about this.

Amy

--- On Tue, 3/16/10, Frank  Sue Koren fs...@roadrunner.com wrote:

 From: Frank  Sue Koren fs...@roadrunner.com
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 8:59 PM
 I can't remember now what the time
 frame was. He was tested at his first vet visit after I
 adopted him but I don't remember how long that was after I
 brought him home.  Normally I take a newly adopted cat
 right in to be checked but it has been about four years...
 Today I called my vet back and told him I wanted the Epogen
 because I wasn't going to just sit back and watch him
 die.  He called a prescription in to Walgreens and they
 had to order it.  I will pick it up after work tomorrow
 along with the syringes and give him his first injection
 tomorrow evening. My vet also contacted another vet he knows
 who had Imulan in stock and I am going to pick that up
 Thursday after work.  I didn't realise that Epogen and
 Imulan could be given concurrently.  Who knows, maybe
 there is some hope for my beautiful white fluffy boy after
 all.
 Sue
 - Original Message - From: MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
 
 
  sue, was casper ever double tested to make sure he was
 actually negative? a
  single negative test means no more than a single
 positive test does: unless
  we know for sure when the last possible date of
 exposure was, and do a final
  test 90-120 days after that, we cannot know that any
 cat is truly negative.
  this is how my cats all become exposed back in
 2000--my housemate, the
  shelter director, brought in a beautiful little girl
 who'd tested negative.
  we didn't know to retest back then, and didn't. she
 became symptomatic less
  than a year later.
  
  as far as i know, there are no cases of an actually
 negative cat (tested
  twice) who has been vaccinated ever becoming positive
 from living with
  positives. don't blame yourself for something that you
 probably DIDN'T do.
  
  MC
  
  -- Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
  Maybe That'll Make The Difference
  
  MaryChristine
  Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue
 (www.purebredcats.org)
  Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
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 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release
 Date: 03/16/10 19:33:00
 
 
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