Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Hi Belinda, > I'll give her the > benefit of the doubt, but what exactly is she basing her > information that FeLV+'s have such a bad experience with > using epogen, because I have not heard of any studies that > have been done on this to bear that out and if there is one > I would like the reference so I can look into it and give it > to my vet. I think she was basing it on her experience using Epogen to treat cats with leukemia. I could be wrong on that. She talked about how she has seen a case or two where it helped despite there being no reason it should but she saw far more cases where irreversible damage was done and the cat was actually worse off than before the Epogen. She is fine with me trying LTCI or some of the stuff that she agrees doesn't pose a risk but she definitely feels that Epogen can do harm. I don't know what I think yet, just relaying her thoughts. The one thing she said that I can't stop thinking about is that these cats are immune compromised and a lot of these treatments are introducing foreign substances into their body which can alter an already very delicate balance. So much to think about... > Amy never be afraid to say anything on this list, all I am > saying is that in my experience your vets information is > incorrect about the use of epogen. Both > from other people experiences that I know of that have > FeLV+'s and from my vets experiences. Definitely worth knowing! The more info I have the better. I just feel like sometimes this list is pretty hard on vets. I genuinely feel this one is treating my cat like she would treat her own. She's not my vet so I have no reason to try to defend her. I went to Cornell for a 2nd opinion to see if there is anything else I could possibly try to save Wolfie. If anything I would think they would be telling me to try one thing after another because they would be making a whole lot more money off me than they are now. I really think this vet is trying to help me give Wolfie the best quality of life for the longest time possible. > And there isn't a lot of information out there because most > vets won't even try it and I am not lying when I say most > vets are terrified of epogen in general and have no idea how > to use it because in vet school they are taught that 30% or > better of cats using it will have an adverse reaction to > it. That is old information and most vets who actually > use it on a regular basis, mostly on CRF cats say that > number is closer to 10% or less and only after 5 months or > longer of use. I'll have to inquire more about her experience using it and what she is basing her info on. > And everyone here knows I have no love for Cornell, their > information about FeLV had always been outdated and in my > opinion inaccurate. And years ago when most vets knew > little to nothing about FeLV, their outdated information > caused many positive, healthy cats their lives since they > were then the only veterinary site with the most info out > there about FeLV+, no matter it was inaccurate. I wasn't aware of that. They were very receptive to helping my cat and never once gave me the impression that he should be treated any different than any other cat with any other issue. > > *Secondary viremia*, a later stage characterized by > persistent infection of the bone marrow and other tissue. If > FeLV infection progresses to this stage it has passed a > point of no return: the overwhelming majority of cats with > secondary viremia will be infected for the remainder of > their lives. > > It says it is to the point of no return but *ONLY the > majority of cats* will remain infected for the remainder of > their lives, doesn't add up, if it is to the point of no > return then *ALL of those cats* would be infected the > remainder of their lives. Guess they got to cover > their butts in case a cat does fight off secondary > viremia. I have heard of one cat that did but have no > proof so can't say it has or hasn't happened. I see where that statement can be confusing. > In my opinion because they won't spend the money to do > those tests, but if you talk with many people using one or > another of these treatments most are having good results, so > since there isn't scientific evidence because no studies > have been done, well I personally will go with people with > positives that have experience using these types of > treatments, but if you tell anyone at Cornell that, I'm > pretty sure they will poo poo it and tell you it is a waste > of your time and money. Actually she was fine with me trying anything other than Epogen. However she presented me several studies on interferon and several other options that showed no benefit in the treated group. We discussed Wolfie's quality of life and decided that I can't mess with a good thing when there is not one study that shows these things help. I posted to this group to see if anybody has been able to save a cat with nonreg
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Amy, mine had regular blood work. I did not do the specific B12 test, I used the vitamins/supplements based on their HCT nos. A cat needs the B's, folic acid and iron to produce new red blood cells. The B's and folic acid are water soluble so overdosing isn't an issue. Iron should not be supplemented unless there is a deficiency. You could be right. This is from http://www.petplace.com/cats/anemia-in-cats/page1.aspx "Regenerative anemia is caused by either blood loss or hemolyis (red cell destruction). Non-regenerative anemia is seen with either acute (very sudden) anemia of any cause, bone marrow disease, iron deficiency, or bone marrow suppression secondary to chronic disease or kidney failure. Performing a reticulocyte count is therefore very useful in narrowing down the causes of the anemia." To build on what others have said, I tend to throw the kitchen sink at whatever the problem is. There is no 100% guarantee on anything in life. If there is a chance it could help then I will try it. My sweet Albert (advanced CRF, anemia, CHF, severe HCM, severe periodontal disease) was given days/weeks by his various vets. He enjoyed another 1 1/2 yrs because we didn't believe the vets and didn't give up. You have to make the decision on what is best for your cat. We are dealing with a chronic disease. There is no cure. We do the best we can to manage it and provide a loving life to our beloved companions. Untreated anemia can eventually kill a cat but many cats respond to a treatment plan. Sharyl --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Amy wrote: > From: Amy > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 10:22 PM > > Amy, I have not used epogen for > a CRF > > or FeLV kitty though I have had both with anemia. > > > > There is a Yahoo Anemia group that may be able to > answer > > some of your questions about the risks of using epogen > or > > Darbepoetin. > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/ > > I was part of this group for quite some time but couldn't > find anybody using Epogen, with success, for a leuk positive > kitty. > > > I used vitamins and supplements (B12, Super B Complex > and > > Folic Acid) to manage chronic anemia. > > Did you do any tests to see if the cat was low in B12 or > did you just use the vitamins and supplements? I have > had Wolfie tested and everything is fine but my vet wants to > check it once more (it's been a few months) at his next > routine blood draw. We discussed B12 injections and > have discussed vitamins/supplements. We are going to > address this again after seeing his bloodwork. > > > I do agree that if the kidneys are producing > erythropoietin > > but the bone marrow is not responding then giving > epogen > > shots would not be beneficial. I have not heard it > > called nonregenative anemia when the kidneys are > producing > > erythropoietin. > > Sharyl > > My understanding is that erythropoietin is made and > released by the kidneys. In a cat with damaged > kidneys, sufficient erythropoietin can't be produced. > In a leuk positive cat with healthy kidneys, erythropoietin > is still being produced but the bone marrow is unable to > respond. I think it's still nonregenerative if new red > blood cells aren't being made. Does anybody know if my > understanding is correct here? > > > > > > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Not sure if this is for me or not but Wolfie has been tested and was fine. I had him on an iron supplement for several months anyways just in case it might help. Amy --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro wrote: > From: Belinda Sauro > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 11:55 AM > PS. Has she tested his iron to > see if that is low, many anemic acts are low in iron? > > -- > Belinda > happiness is being owned by cats ... > > http://bemikitties.com > > http://BelindaSauro.com > > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
> Amy, I have not used epogen for a CRF > or FeLV kitty though I have had both with anemia. > > There is a Yahoo Anemia group that may be able to answer > some of your questions about the risks of using epogen or > Darbepoetin. > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/ I was part of this group for quite some time but couldn't find anybody using Epogen, with success, for a leuk positive kitty. > I used vitamins and supplements (B12, Super B Complex and > Folic Acid) to manage chronic anemia. Did you do any tests to see if the cat was low in B12 or did you just use the vitamins and supplements? I have had Wolfie tested and everything is fine but my vet wants to check it once more (it's been a few months) at his next routine blood draw. We discussed B12 injections and have discussed vitamins/supplements. We are going to address this again after seeing his bloodwork. > I do agree that if the kidneys are producing erythropoietin > but the bone marrow is not responding then giving epogen > shots would not be beneficial. I have not heard it > called nonregenative anemia when the kidneys are producing > erythropoietin. > Sharyl My understanding is that erythropoietin is made and released by the kidneys. In a cat with damaged kidneys, sufficient erythropoietin can't be produced. In a leuk positive cat with healthy kidneys, erythropoietin is still being produced but the bone marrow is unable to respond. I think it's still nonregenerative if new red blood cells aren't being made. Does anybody know if my understanding is correct here? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Amy, I have not used epogen for a CRF or FeLV kitty though I have had both with anemia. There is a Yahoo Anemia group that may be able to answer some of your questions about the risks of using epogen or Darbepoetin. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/ I used vitamins and supplements (B12, Super B Complex and Folic Acid) to manage chronic anemia. I do agree that if the kidneys are producing erythropoietin but the bone marrow is not responding then giving epogen shots would not be beneficial. I have not heard it called nonregenative anemia when the kidneys are producing erythropoietin. Sharyl --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Amy wrote: > From: Amy > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 9:00 AM > Hi Belinda, > > I do know Bailey's story well and honestly you are one of > the only stories I've heard with positive results (not to > say there aren't a lot more good ones out there, that's why > I'm asking). Your story keeps me wondering if I should > try it despite the warnings. I'm so glad you had these > results with Epogen. I actually had the vet research > WHY it could possibly help a leuk positive cat because of > your story. I can't find one vet that can explain why > it could possibly help since a leuk positive cat is normally > making erythropoietin just fine on it's own. That's > not to say it has never helped. She has heard of cases > but said there is no biological/medical reason it should > help . Does anybody know how or why it might help a > cat with nonregenerative anemia? > > I just want to say that the vet that told me this is most > likely not flat out lying. She is a highly recommended > internal med from Cornell University. She has been > absolutely wonderful and has researched everything I've > asked her about extensively. When I asked her about > Epogen she didn't have to research it because she did have > experience with it, with cats with CRF and cats > without. I did A LOT of searching of all the medical > facilities within hundreds of miles to find a specialist > that actually deals with leukemia and treats cats with it > regularly. Many vets in my area have never even seen a > positive cat other than the ones they euthanize. I've > lost one cat after another to leukemia and despite trying > one thing after another, have never been able to bring one > back from nonregenerative anemia. My cat that is > currently being treated by Cornell is stable and holding his > own 6 months after being diagnosed. I don't believe > that would be the case > without her help. I totally understand people on > here feeling that most vets know nothing about leukemia but > I just wanted to say that I spent A LOT of time and effort > trying to locate a vet that would do the best possible job > for this cat and it stings a bit to hear somebody say she is > flat out lying to me or doesn't know how to use > Epogen. Anyways, I don't post on here a lot and was > nervous about saying anything about my fears of Epogen > because I thought it might ruffle some feathers. I > just couldn't at least throw it out there because I > personally would feel awful if I did something to speed up > how quickly this disease can take down a positive cat. > I really think each person needs to do what they are > comfortable with and I just wanted to throw out what I heard > on the off chance it is accurate. > > I'd love to hear from others that have tried Epogen too. > > Amy > > --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro > wrote: > > > From: Belinda Sauro > > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? > > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 12:58 AM > > Amy, > > This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using > it > > correctly. > > > > It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and > that > > reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would > continue > > to go down, in some cases this is because the dose > isn't > > high enough, a few kitties need higher than the > standard > > dose. But of course the vets freak out and assume > the > > cat is having a reaction. So many vets are > terrified > > of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if > it > > isn't working you would be right back where you > started. > > It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would > fall > > into this category and of those it takes 5 months or > longer > > of use for this to happen. > > > > I know many, many people who have use
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Amy, Never give up and try everything you can. We were told our cat had 2 weeks to live & that was 1.5 years ago! He is FeLV negative now, however we deal with the anemia. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:00 AM, Amy wrote: Hi Belinda, I do know Bailey's story well and honestly you are one of the only stories I've heard with positive results (not to say there aren't a lot more good ones out there, that's why I'm asking). Your story keeps me wondering if I should try it despite the warnings. I'm so glad you had these results with Epogen. I actually had the vet research WHY it could possibly help a leuk positive cat because of your story. I can't find one vet that can explain why it could possibly help since a leuk positive cat is normally making erythropoietin just fine on it's own. That's not to say it has never helped. She has heard of cases but said there is no biological/medical reason it should help . Does anybody know how or why it might help a cat with nonregenerative anemia? I just want to say that the vet that told me this is most likely not flat out lying. She is a highly recommended internal med from Cornell University. She has been absolutely wonderful and has researched everything I've asked her about extensively. When I asked her about Epogen she didn't have to research it because she did have experience with it, with cats with CRF and cats without. I did A LOT of searching of all the medical facilities within hundreds of miles to find a specialist that actually deals with leukemia and treats cats with it regularly. Many vets in my area have never even seen a positive cat other than the ones they euthanize. I've lost one cat after another to leukemia and despite trying one thing after another, have never been able to bring one back from nonregenerative anemia. My cat that is currently being treated by Cornell is stable and holding his own 6 months after being diagnosed. I don't believe that would be the case without her help. I totally understand people on here feeling that most vets know nothing about leukemia but I just wanted to say that I spent A LOT of time and effort trying to locate a vet that would do the best possible job for this cat and it stings a bit to hear somebody say she is flat out lying to me or doesn't know how to use Epogen. Anyways, I don't post on here a lot and was nervous about saying anything about my fears of Epogen because I thought it might ruffle some feathers. I just couldn't at least throw it out there because I personally would feel awful if I did something to speed up how quickly this disease can take down a positive cat. I really think each person needs to do what they are comfortable with and I just wanted to throw out what I heard on the off chance it is accurate. I'd love to hear from others that have tried Epogen too. Amy --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro wrote: From: Belinda Sauro Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 12:58 AM Amy, This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using it correctly. It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and that reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would continue to go down, in some cases this is because the dose isn't high enough, a few kitties need higher than the standard dose. But of course the vets freak out and assume the cat is having a reaction. So many vets are terrified of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if it isn't working you would be right back where you started. It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would fall into this category and of those it takes 5 months or longer of use for this to happen. I know many, many people who have used it and only know of one cat that is was suspected had this happen and I honestly don't think that was the problem, I think that cat wasn't getting a high enough dose. Most of these cats are CRF but a few aren't and were anemic because of cancer or something else. I've told Bailey's story more than once, he was positive, he became anemic and once his HCT got to 20%, I decided to try epogen, I think he was barely regenerative but honestly it has been so long I can't remember. He did not have kidney disease. By the time we got the epogen in it took a few days, he had gone to 18% and once we started it went down to 15%, it took about 6 weeks to get his HCT to 40% which is a little quicker than you would like but he was fine and his HCT was still normal at 33%, 34% 5 months later when he died of pancreatic cancer. You do have to monitor the blood pressure because it can go high, Bailey's did the opposite and got low but we had no problems with the epogen. My vet has used it
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
PS. Has she tested his iron to see if that is low, many anemic acts are low in iron? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Here is some good info on anemia, it is from the CRF site but it explains some of the blood work results of an anemic cat and what they mean and anemia is anemia: http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#reticulocytes -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, but what exactly is she basing her information that FeLV+'s have such a bad experience with using epogen, because I have not heard of any studies that have been done on this to bear that out and if there is one I would like the reference so I can look into it and give it to my vet. Amy never be afraid to say anything on this list, all I am saying is that in my experience your vets information is incorrect about the use of epogen. Both from other people experiences that I know of that have FeLV+'s and from my vets experiences. And there isn't a lot of information out there because most vets won't even try it and I am not lying when I say most vets are terrified of epogen in general and have no idea how to use it because in vet school they are taught that 30% or better of cats using it will have an adverse reaction to it. That is old information and most vets who actually use it on a regular basis, mostly on CRF cats say that number is closer to 10% or less and only after 5 months or longer of use. And everyone here knows I have no love for Cornell, their information about FeLV had always been outdated and in my opinion inaccurate. And years ago when most vets knew little to nothing about FeLV, their outdated information caused many positive, healthy cats their lives since they were then the only veterinary site with the most info out there about FeLV+, no matter it was inaccurate. I see they have updated their info, still not perfect in my eyes but much better than it was years ago when people were freaking out about it: This statement however is contradictory: *Secondary viremia*, a later stage characterized by persistent infection of the bone marrow and other tissue. If FeLV infection progresses to this stage it has passed a point of no return: the overwhelming majority of cats with secondary viremia will be infected for the remainder of their lives. It says it is to the point of no return but *ONLY the majority of cats* will remain infected for the remainder of their lives, doesn't add up, if it is to the point of no return then *ALL of those cats* would be infected the remainder of their lives. Guess they got to cover their butts in case a cat does fight off secondary viremia. I have heard of one cat that did but have no proof so can't say it has or hasn't happened. *This is on their website:* There is no scientific evidence that alternative, immunomodulator, or antiviral medications have any positive benefits on the health or longevity of healthy infected cats. *Why is that?* In my opinion because they won't spend the money to do those tests, but if you talk with many people using one or another of these treatments most are having good results, so since there isn't scientific evidence because no studies have been done, well I personally will go with people with positives that have experience using these types of treatments, but if you tell anyone at Cornell that, I'm pretty sure they will poo poo it and tell you it is a waste of your time and money. *And this is my way of thinking and only my opinion.* If my furkid has something that IS going to kill them if I do nothing, *or if what I am trying isn't working*, but there is something I can try that may work ... I am going to try it. If the options are for sure death and possible life, I'm going for the possible life, the out come is going to be the same if it doesn't work, but if there is a 1% chance it may work, I'm going for that 1% chance. And thank god my vet knows me well enough to know that. Now if she strongly feels that what I want to do is going to hurt my furkid she will argue with me but if she can't convince me, she knows I will go somewhere else to find a vet that will work with me. If she can convince me then I won't do it. My vet isn't perfect and she has made mistakes and there have been times when I didn't go with my gut and to be honest one of those times was when I felt Bailey had pancreatitis because of how he was acting when I fed him. I asked my vet if it were possible and she said no she didn't think so because his gloucose and amylese didn't bear that out, well it doesn't always affect those values and in Baileys case my NOT insisting on a specific pancreatitis test probably cost him his life, because he died from pancreatic cancer, so he probably did have pancreatitis and left untreated it turned into cancer, and if that isn't the case that not treating it would have kept it from turning into cancer, if the cancer was already there at the very least doing the pancreatitis test would almost certainly have found the cancer and we could have treated it. So I am sorry if I am coming off so strongly but if I can save one life because of the mistakes I made with Bailey it is worth it to me. No vet is right 100% of the time and anyone who thinks they are is asking for trouble, my vet was wrong abo
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Hi Belinda, I do know Bailey's story well and honestly you are one of the only stories I've heard with positive results (not to say there aren't a lot more good ones out there, that's why I'm asking). Your story keeps me wondering if I should try it despite the warnings. I'm so glad you had these results with Epogen. I actually had the vet research WHY it could possibly help a leuk positive cat because of your story. I can't find one vet that can explain why it could possibly help since a leuk positive cat is normally making erythropoietin just fine on it's own. That's not to say it has never helped. She has heard of cases but said there is no biological/medical reason it should help . Does anybody know how or why it might help a cat with nonregenerative anemia? I just want to say that the vet that told me this is most likely not flat out lying. She is a highly recommended internal med from Cornell University. She has been absolutely wonderful and has researched everything I've asked her about extensively. When I asked her about Epogen she didn't have to research it because she did have experience with it, with cats with CRF and cats without. I did A LOT of searching of all the medical facilities within hundreds of miles to find a specialist that actually deals with leukemia and treats cats with it regularly. Many vets in my area have never even seen a positive cat other than the ones they euthanize. I've lost one cat after another to leukemia and despite trying one thing after another, have never been able to bring one back from nonregenerative anemia. My cat that is currently being treated by Cornell is stable and holding his own 6 months after being diagnosed. I don't believe that would be the case without her help. I totally understand people on here feeling that most vets know nothing about leukemia but I just wanted to say that I spent A LOT of time and effort trying to locate a vet that would do the best possible job for this cat and it stings a bit to hear somebody say she is flat out lying to me or doesn't know how to use Epogen. Anyways, I don't post on here a lot and was nervous about saying anything about my fears of Epogen because I thought it might ruffle some feathers. I just couldn't at least throw it out there because I personally would feel awful if I did something to speed up how quickly this disease can take down a positive cat. I really think each person needs to do what they are comfortable with and I just wanted to throw out what I heard on the off chance it is accurate. I'd love to hear from others that have tried Epogen too. Amy --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro wrote: > From: Belinda Sauro > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 12:58 AM > Amy, > This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using it > correctly. > > It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and that > reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would continue > to go down, in some cases this is because the dose isn't > high enough, a few kitties need higher than the standard > dose. But of course the vets freak out and assume the > cat is having a reaction. So many vets are terrified > of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if it > isn't working you would be right back where you started. > It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would fall > into this category and of those it takes 5 months or longer > of use for this to happen. > > I know many, many people who have used it and only know of > one cat that is was suspected had this happen and I honestly > don't think that was the problem, I think that cat wasn't > getting a high enough dose. Most of these cats are CRF > but a few aren't and were anemic because of cancer or > something else. > > I've told Bailey's story more than once, he was positive, > he became anemic and once his HCT got to 20%, I decided to > try epogen, I think he was barely regenerative but honestly > it has been so long I can't remember. He did not have > kidney disease. > > By the time we got the epogen in it took a few days, he had > gone to 18% and once we started it went down to 15%, it took > about 6 weeks to get his HCT to 40% which is a little > quicker than you would like but he was fine and his HCT was > still normal at 33%, 34% 5 months later when he died of > pancreatic cancer. > > You do have to monitor the blood pressure because it can go > high, Bailey's did the opposite and got low but we had no > problems with the epogen. > > My vet has used it several times with FeLV+ cats and had > luck with it. > > --
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Amy, This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using it correctly. It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and that reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would continue to go down, in some cases this is because the dose isn't high enough, a few kitties need higher than the standard dose. But of course the vets freak out and assume the cat is having a reaction. So many vets are terrified of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if it isn't working you would be right back where you started. It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would fall into this category and of those it takes 5 months or longer of use for this to happen. I know many, many people who have used it and only know of one cat that is was suspected had this happen and I honestly don't think that was the problem, I think that cat wasn't getting a high enough dose. Most of these cats are CRF but a few aren't and were anemic because of cancer or something else. I've told Bailey's story more than once, he was positive, he became anemic and once his HCT got to 20%, I decided to try epogen, I think he was barely regenerative but honestly it has been so long I can't remember. He did not have kidney disease. By the time we got the epogen in it took a few days, he had gone to 18% and once we started it went down to 15%, it took about 6 weeks to get his HCT to 40% which is a little quicker than you would like but he was fine and his HCT was still normal at 33%, 34% 5 months later when he died of pancreatic cancer. You do have to monitor the blood pressure because it can go high, Bailey's did the opposite and got low but we had no problems with the epogen. My vet has used it several times with FeLV+ cats and had luck with it. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Hi Sue, Just wanted to ask what Casper's HCT is right now? Does he have CRF? I have looked into Epogen as well and know some people swear by it. I don't want to contradict anything you've heard but just wanted to offer up another thing to consider. The specialist I talked to said all of the treatments mentioned on this list, that is the only one she would never use. She said that while a positive may respond well to it, the chance of doing irreversible harm is high. I know that is controversial but she said she has seen one cat after another react to it. She said that is is really tough to reverse the damage if the cat does react and not a risk she would ever take. I don't know where I stand on Epogen because I have heard such completely opposing views on it. I don't judge those that use it nor do I judge those who won't go near it. Just wanted to present what I was told in case it could help in any way. I hope whatever you try works wonders for Casper! What have other people heard/experienced with Epogen? I know that if a cat has nonregenerative anemia, has a HCT below 20, etc. the idea is sometimes that the cat is going to die anyways so what's the harm in trying something that could cause a reaction or might not. What I don't get is the reason behind using Epogen for a cat that is not in renal failure. If the cat is producing erythropoietin fine, what could the Epogen do to help? I'd love to hear more about this. Amy --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Frank & Sue Koren wrote: > From: Frank & Sue Koren > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 8:59 PM > I can't remember now what the time > frame was. He was tested at his first vet visit after I > adopted him but I don't remember how long that was after I > brought him home. Normally I take a newly adopted cat > right in to be checked but it has been about four years... > Today I called my vet back and told him I wanted the Epogen > because I wasn't going to just sit back and watch him > die. He called a prescription in to Walgreens and they > had to order it. I will pick it up after work tomorrow > along with the syringes and give him his first injection > tomorrow evening. My vet also contacted another vet he knows > who had Imulan in stock and I am going to pick that up > Thursday after work. I didn't realise that Epogen and > Imulan could be given concurrently. Who knows, maybe > there is some hope for my beautiful white fluffy boy after > all. > Sue > - Original Message - From: "MaryChristine" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:23 PM > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? > > > > sue, was casper ever double tested to make sure he was > actually negative? a > > single negative test means no more than a single > positive test does: unless > > we know for sure when the last possible date of > exposure was, and do a final > > test 90-120 days after that, we cannot know that any > cat is truly negative. > > this is how my cats all become exposed back in > 2000--my housemate, the > > shelter director, brought in a beautiful little girl > who'd tested negative. > > we didn't know to retest back then, and didn't. she > became symptomatic less > > than a year later. > > > > as far as i know, there are no cases of an actually > negative cat (tested > > twice) who has been vaccinated ever becoming positive > from living with > > positives. don't blame yourself for something that you > probably DIDN'T do. > > > > MC > > > > -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! > > Maybe That'll Make The Difference > > > > MaryChristine > > Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue > (www.purebredcats.org) > > Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) > > ___ > > Felvtalk mailing list > > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release > Date: 03/16/10 19:33:00 > > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
I wish you the very best!! I know $30,000 later, it is all wrth the name in a CURE! Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2010, at 5:59 PM, "Frank & Sue Koren" wrote: I can't remember now what the time frame was. He was tested at his first vet visit after I adopted him but I don't remember how long that was after I brought him home. Normally I take a newly adopted cat right in to be checked but it has been about four years... Today I called my vet back and told him I wanted the Epogen because I wasn't going to just sit back and watch him die. He called a prescription in to Walgreens and they had to order it. I will pick it up after work tomorrow along with the syringes and give him his first injection tomorrow evening. My vet also contacted another vet he knows who had Imulan in stock and I am going to pick that up Thursday after work. I didn't realise that Epogen and Imulan could be given concurrently. Who knows, maybe there is some hope for my beautiful white fluffy boy after all. Sue - Original Message - From: "MaryChristine" > To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? sue, was casper ever double tested to make sure he was actually negative? a single negative test means no more than a single positive test does: unless we know for sure when the last possible date of exposure was, and do a final test 90-120 days after that, we cannot know that any cat is truly negative. this is how my cats all become exposed back in 2000--my housemate, the shelter director, brought in a beautiful little girl who'd tested negative. we didn't know to retest back then, and didn't. she became symptomatic less than a year later. as far as i know, there are no cases of an actually negative cat (tested twice) who has been vaccinated ever becoming positive from living with positives. don't blame yourself for something that you probably DIDN'T do. MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org --- --- --- --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release Date: 03/16/10 19:33:00 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
I can't remember now what the time frame was. He was tested at his first vet visit after I adopted him but I don't remember how long that was after I brought him home. Normally I take a newly adopted cat right in to be checked but it has been about four years... Today I called my vet back and told him I wanted the Epogen because I wasn't going to just sit back and watch him die. He called a prescription in to Walgreens and they had to order it. I will pick it up after work tomorrow along with the syringes and give him his first injection tomorrow evening. My vet also contacted another vet he knows who had Imulan in stock and I am going to pick that up Thursday after work. I didn't realise that Epogen and Imulan could be given concurrently. Who knows, maybe there is some hope for my beautiful white fluffy boy after all. Sue - Original Message - From: "MaryChristine" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron? sue, was casper ever double tested to make sure he was actually negative? a single negative test means no more than a single positive test does: unless we know for sure when the last possible date of exposure was, and do a final test 90-120 days after that, we cannot know that any cat is truly negative. this is how my cats all become exposed back in 2000--my housemate, the shelter director, brought in a beautiful little girl who'd tested negative. we didn't know to retest back then, and didn't. she became symptomatic less than a year later. as far as i know, there are no cases of an actually negative cat (tested twice) who has been vaccinated ever becoming positive from living with positives. don't blame yourself for something that you probably DIDN'T do. MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release Date: 03/16/10 19:33:00 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
Thankfully, my Gray Kitty, has been negative for over 7-8 months now. All specialists have said we can now stop testing him monthly. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:23 PM, MaryChristine wrote: sue, was casper ever double tested to make sure he was actually negative? a single negative test means no more than a single positive test does: unless we know for sure when the last possible date of exposure was, and do a final test 90-120 days after that, we cannot know that any cat is truly negative. this is how my cats all become exposed back in 2000--my housemate, the shelter director, brought in a beautiful little girl who'd tested negative. we didn't know to retest back then, and didn't. she became symptomatic less than a year later. as far as i know, there are no cases of an actually negative cat (tested twice) who has been vaccinated ever becoming positive from living with positives. don't blame yourself for something that you probably DIDN'T do. MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
sue, was casper ever double tested to make sure he was actually negative? a single negative test means no more than a single positive test does: unless we know for sure when the last possible date of exposure was, and do a final test 90-120 days after that, we cannot know that any cat is truly negative. this is how my cats all become exposed back in 2000--my housemate, the shelter director, brought in a beautiful little girl who'd tested negative. we didn't know to retest back then, and didn't. she became symptomatic less than a year later. as far as i know, there are no cases of an actually negative cat (tested twice) who has been vaccinated ever becoming positive from living with positives. don't blame yourself for something that you probably DIDN'T do. MC -- Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
When Kong was first diagnosed his count was at 7 and he had two blood transfusions to get him back up to a healthy level. He has nonregenerative anemia. He's been on a gradually decreasing dosage of pred and a week on/week off schedule of 1ml of Interferon for the past 6 months. He gets his blood tested every month, and so far, his counts have been in the normal, healthy range. My vet is very young, and Kong is her first FeLV+ cat. She told me that Interferon could not hurt him, but might not help either. However, it seems to be doing something. Kong is going for a check up at a specialist this Friday, or what I like to call, "Dr. McSuperExpensive", and he will be able to tell me more than my vet about exactly what is helping and how it is working. I'll be sure to update and let everyone know what he says. --Ashley ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
When gray cat was first diagnosed his hct was at 9. He is currently on a very high dose of Pred & a chemo drug called Chlorambucil. We are getting ready to take him off the chemo drug & start cyclosporin & once again try to slowly reduce his pred. We did interferon & LTCI injections. He test negative now for FeLV. There is always a 3-4 week lag time before you start to see the increase in the Hematocrit with Pred. We have been going through this since Sept. 2008. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 13, 2010, at 8:17 AM, "Frank & Sue Koren" wrote: Hello all; Casper is my symptomatic cat that became positive because I mixed my positives and negatives. I wondered if somehow I had missed his vaccinataion last year. I asked the vet to double check and as I thought he was not even due for his next vaccination until April. Anyway, he is now anemic and we are trying to deal with that. He has been getting Prednosolone and Doxycycline for about a week and a half without improvement. His count was 19 when he was tested two weeks ago. I took him today for a PCV and don't have the results yet. He also got an iron shot. I asked about Epogen. My vet calls it Arithro proeatin (I know I botched the spelling of that.) He is also looking into Interferon. Has anyone had experience with these with an anemic positive cat? Now that my decision to mix has make Casper become positive I want to do whatever I can for him. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
