Re: kittens have diarrhea
coccidia also has a distinctly 'foul' smell... Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How does the poo smell (fouler than usual diarrhea)? Is it greenish at all? Is it a pattie-like consistency, similar to cow patties? Trich is usually greenish cow pattie like poo with a TERRIBLE smell, very odorific. Phaewryn Don't Lose Your Pet! Register at AWOLpet.com: http://AWOLPet.com (use referral code: LittleCheetah) Whitey's Story: http://ucat.us/Whitey.html 12/24/06 Whitey Pictures: http://ucat.us/Whitey/WhiteyNewPics.html Whitey Models on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140070302069
Re: kittens have diarrhea
How long have they been on Albon and metronidazole? And how old are they? Good appetites, playful? Kittens often have diarrhea. I wouldn't be too worried at this point. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The three kittens I am fostering, whose mom tested a faint positive 12/24, have ongoing diarrhea. They have received Albon and Metronidazole but the diarrhea (liquid) continues. They are eating Purina One kitten chow, plus quite a mix of what is available around the house (Science Diet adult, Innova Adult, and Purina DM). This is not optimal for controlling intestinal issues, but again, I don't want to lock them up. Other than the diarrhea they are a normal and lively lot. Of course since they have possible exposure to FeLV I am fretting that the diarrhea is indicative of something sinister. How should I proceed? Back to the vet, or hope it works itself out? What is the likelihood FeLV is the base culprit? thanks, Lynette =^..^= The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured by the way in which its animals are treated. --Mahatma Gandhi, 1869-1948
Re: kittens have diarrhea
Try Apple Pectin and/or Metamucil in small amounts. Also try probiotics/yogurt with active ingredients. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: kittens have diarrhea The three kittens I am fostering, whose mom tested a faint positive 12/24, have ongoing diarrhea. They have received Albon and Metronidazole but the diarrhea (liquid) continues. They are eating Purina One kitten chow, plus quite a mix of what is available around the house (Science Diet adult, Innova Adult, and Purina DM). This is not optimal for controlling intestinal issues, but again, I don't want to lock them up. Other than the diarrhea they are a normal and lively lot. Of course since they have possible exposure to FeLV I am fretting that the diarrhea is indicative of something sinister. How should I proceed? Back to the vet, or hope it works itself out? What is the likelihood FeLV is the base culprit? thanks, Lynette =^..^= The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured by the way in which its animals are treated. --Mahatma Gandhi, 1869-1948
Re: kittens have diarrhea
FELV doesn't usually cause diarrhea (not in itself, though I believe lymphoma can, and FELV does cause lymphoma). However, bad food is the #1 cause. Purina is crap, throw it away, feed it to the raccoons, just get rid of it. Feed a high quality kitten food, like Innova, Wellness, or Chicken Soup brands. Read labels, does you food contain corn? If so, there's your diarrhea. Even quite a few premium brands still contain corn, so it's VITAL that you read the label for ingredients. Phaewryn Don't Lose Your Pet! Register at AWOLpet.com: http://AWOLPet.com (use referral code: LittleCheetah) Whitey's Story: http://ucat.us/Whitey.html 12/24/06 Whitey Pictures: http://ucat.us/Whitey/WhiteyNewPics.html Whitey Models on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Cleos-Catnip-ORGANIC-2-ounces-cat-nip-KITTY-YUMMY_W0QQitemZ140067996154QQihZ004QQ
Re: kittens have diarrhea
My first impulse is to not suspect felv. It would be highly unusual for them all, esp at the same time, to display the same symptom, (diarrhea) as an indication of felv compromising their immune systems. It is much more likely a product of immature gi's dealing with your smorgasborg feeding stations :). I would contact the vet if I were you to have their stool tested for parasites, (including giardia and coccidia). [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The three kittens I am fostering, whose mom tested a faint positive 12/24, have ongoing diarrhea. They have received Albon and Metronidazole but the diarrhea (liquid) continues. They are eating Purina One kitten chow, plus quite a mix of what is available around the house (Science Diet adult, Innova Adult, and Purina DM). This is not optimal for controlling intestinal issues, but again, I don't want to lock them up. Other than the diarrhea they are a normal and lively lot. Of course since they have possible exposure to FeLV I am fretting that the diarrhea is indicative of something sinister. How should I proceed? Back to the vet, or hope it works itself out? What is the likelihood FeLV is the base culprit? thanks, Lynette =^..^= The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured by the way in which its animals are treated. --Mahatma Gandhi, 1869-1948
Re: kittens have diarrhea
I got to doing some digging, and came upwith this... Purina ONE feline growth ingredients: Chicken, chicken by-product meal, soy flour, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, beef tallow preserved with mix d-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), corn meal, fish meal, poultry by-product meal, natural flavors, wheat gluten, phosphoric acid, salt, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, choline chloride, taurine, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, riboflavin supplement, dl-methionine, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite. Purina Kitten Chow (Nurturing Formula): Poultry by-product meal, Brewers rice, Corn gluten meal, Soy flour, Animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), Fish meal, Wheat flour, Brewers dried yeast, Phosphoric acid, Animal digest, Tetra sodium pyrophosphate, Calcium carbonate, Salt, Potassium chloride, Choline chloride, Taurine, Zinc sulfate, Ferrous sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, Manganese sulfate, Niacin, Vitamin A supplement, Calcium pantothenate, Thiamine mononitrate, Copper sulfate, Riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, Pyridoxine hydrochloride, Folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, Calcium iodate, Biotin, Menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Sodium selenite. I advise staying away from corn and wheat in cat foods, corn because cat's don't digest it well, and wheat because it's a huge cause of food allergies. Here's a link to go look at other cat and kitten food choices and ingredients: http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/brands4dept.asp?dept%5Fid=5mscssid=AMP9W4QD50BU8PD334JJWQ8QJC9X0R89 Here's some I suggest: Innova Evo Cat and Kitten: Turkey, Chicken, Chicken Meal, Herring Meal, Potatoes, Chicken Fat, Egg, Turkey Meal, Natural Flavors, Apples, Carrots, Tomatoes, Cottage Cheese, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Herring Oil, Rosemary Extract, Vitamins/Minerals, Viable Naturally Occurring Microorganisms Wellness Super5Mix Kitten: Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chicken Liver, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Whole Oats, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols Rosemary), Cranberries, Blueberries, Flax Seed, Eggs, Peas, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Spirulina, Norwegian Kelp, Whole Apples, Zucchini, Sweet Potatoes, Yucca Schidigera, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine, Pro-Biotics (Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus), Pre-Biotics (Mannanoligosaccharides), Beta-Carotene, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Zinc), Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Manganese), Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Copper), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source Of Vitamin K Activity). Other than improving your food... I'd get a inpouch tritrichomonsis test done. Phaewryn Don't Lose Your Pet! Register at AWOLpet.com: http://AWOLPet.com (use referral code: LittleCheetah) Whitey's Story: http://ucat.us/Whitey.html 12/24/06 Whitey Pictures: http://ucat.us/Whitey/WhiteyNewPics.html Whitey Models on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Cleos-Catnip-ORGANIC-2-ounces-cat-nip-KITTY-YUMMY_W0QQitemZ140067996154QQihZ004QQ
Re: kittens have diarrhea
I would try just evo, and if it continues, I would ask the vet to try a week course of metronidazole (flagyl) to clear up whatever is causing it. Michelle
Re: kittens have diarrhea
oops-- sorry, I had not read the original post. I see they are already on metronidazole. Yes, then I would focus on diet. Michelle
Re: kittens have diarrhea
if diet does not fix it, I would get a fecal test sent out. Some parasites and other things need specific treatment. Michelle
Re: kittens have diarrhea
Keep in mind that a lot of times giardia does not show up on fecal. How long have they been on metronidazole? Have they been dewormed, preferably with Drontal? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if diet does not fix it, I would get a fecal test sent out. Some parasites and other things need specific treatment. Michelle
Re: kittens with diarrhea
That may be the case. I do find it bizarre that all of a sudden I'm getting so many positives for trich... but then, there wasn't a test before, so that explains why I just began to find them. Err DUH! If you don't test for it, you don't KNOW about it. I just am glad it's finally becoming known, because it's curable, and lots of cats probably suffered their whole life with it up until now. Phaewryn Don't Lose Your Pet! Register at AWOLpet.com: http://AWOLPet.com (use referral code: LittleCheetah) Whitey's Story: http://ucat.us/Whitey.html 12/24/06 Whitey Pictures: http://ucat.us/Whitey/WhiteyNewPics.html Whitey Models on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140070302069
Re: kittens with diarrhea
info if your vet needs to know where to get the kits or needs more info) http://www.fabcats.org/tritrichomonas.html (this is a link that has more abou t trich) Now that I read this article, I realize that our rescue group vet mentioned this in connection with an adult with persisent diarrhea I fostered previously (diagnosed with IBD), so I am sure he is aware of it. I have a gut feeling that it's something like this -- a parasite that Drontal doesn't kill. And now that I think about it, their mom had diarrhea too (she is in another home so is less present in my mind). I'll get them to the vet for some fun poop checks, hopefully Wednesday. Thanks for a great link. I think the Evo will help, and I think a viable option for your table scrap k itty would be to feed raw or at least home-made, as it will be more of the flavo r and food type he is used to, but healthier than actual human scraps. We do give him cooked chicken and turkey when we have it on hand (we eat most meals at home so it's on hand fairly frequently) To really do handmade properly requires a lot of nutritional effort that I'm sure is outlined in the links you shared and I'm sure you're well aware of. I've done a ton of nutritional reading and just simply have not had the time/energy to do this right. Hence the Innova in the main bowl; I decided it was the best I could do short of BARF/homemade. Lynette
Re: kittens have diarrhea
Try Apple Pectin and/or Metamucil in small amounts. Also try probiotics/yogurt with active ingredients. We are using Purina veterinary diets fortiflora mixed into IVD/Royal Canin limited ingredient wet food at night. I don't know whether to continue this, with the stop the smorgasboard plan in effect, but it's certainly in the probiotic concept. Lynette
Re: kittens have diarrhea
Keep in mind that a lot of times giardia does not show up on fecal. How long have they been on metronidazole? Have they been dewormed, preferably with D rontal? They were on met for 10 days (off now). They've been dewormed twice with Drontal. Lynette
Re: kittens have diarrhea
You cannot add too many probiotics. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 5:50 PM Subject: Re: kittens have diarrhea Try Apple Pectin and/or Metamucil in small amounts. Also try probiotics/yogurt with active ingredients. We are using Purina veterinary diets fortiflora mixed into IVD/Royal Canin limited ingredient wet food at night. I don't know whether to continue this, with the stop the smorgasboard plan in effect, but it's certainly in the probiotic concept. Lynette
Re: kittens with diarrhea
Oh yeah, I completely understand! I don't do raw or homemade myself for JUST that reason, too much effort (and money)! It might be ok to just feed him the chicken and turkey you are plus a bit of a general supplement, like say Feline Missing Link, or Vita-tabs, or anything just as a general vitamin/mineral source (not optimal, but better than just the meat alone). If he's refusing to eat the kibble, and all he is eating is chicken and turkey though, it's not going to be a viable long-term option. lemme see... there are commercially prepared raw diets... maybe that he would eat. http://www.wildkittycatfood.com/ http://www.homemade4life.com/main.html http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Northwest-Naturals-Raw-Cat-Food/167014.aspx http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Primal-Pet-Foods-Raw-Cat-Food/165006.aspx http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Natures-Variety-Raw-Food-Diets/131069.aspx http://www.felinefuture.com/products/ (a premade supplement balanced to just add water, organs and meat and feed) There are many others. Money is MY personal limiting factor as to why I don't do this. It's time and money. If I feed raw and make my own, it's a time issue; if I were to buy premade raw like those above, it's a money issue. It might not be bad for one cat, like you would need, but I have 7 cats here, one of which has no teeth, so anything I would feed to him I have to dice into 1/4 inch cubes. Anyways... at the least, the Feline Future link, the bottom one, would be a good way to make your currently fed chicken and turkey more complete (though you really should add some organs too). I just don't want you to end up with a sick cat, he can't continue to eat just chicken and turkey long term, it's not healthy or balanced. Phaewryn Don't Lose Your Pet! Register at AWOLpet.com: http://AWOLPet.com (use referral code: LittleCheetah) Whitey's Story: http://ucat.us/Whitey.html 12/24/06 Whitey Pictures: http://ucat.us/Whitey/WhiteyNewPics.html Whitey Models on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140070302069
Re: kittens have diarrhea
probiotics are good, no matter what you feed, I would continue to add the probiotics! I'm currently using the Purina fortiflora packs myself, as my vet sent my cat home from the hospital with an opened box, and I think it's a good product, he seems improved already. Normally I wouldn't buy anything made by Purina, but this product seems to be a good one. The fact is, most likely Purina buys this in bulk from someone else that makes it and just re-packages it in those little single packs in a box and marks it up like 200% and calls it their own, anyways. :-) Phaewryn Don't Lose Your Pet! Register at AWOLpet.com: http://AWOLPet.com (use referral code: LittleCheetah) Whitey's Story: http://ucat.us/Whitey.html 12/24/06 Whitey Pictures: http://ucat.us/Whitey/WhiteyNewPics.html Whitey Models on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140070302069
Re: kittens have diarrhea
How does the poo smell (fouler than usual diarrhea)? Is it greenish at all? Is it a pattie-like consistency, similar to cow patties? Trich is usually greenish cow pattie like poo with a TERRIBLE smell, very odorific. Phaewryn Don't Lose Your Pet! Register at AWOLpet.com: http://AWOLPet.com (use referral code: LittleCheetah) Whitey's Story: http://ucat.us/Whitey.html 12/24/06 Whitey Pictures: http://ucat.us/Whitey/WhiteyNewPics.html Whitey Models on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140070302069
Re: kittens have diarrhea
How does the poo smell (fouler than usual diarrhea)? Is it greenish at all? I s it a pattie-like consistency, similar to cow patties? Trich is usually greenish co w pattie like poo with a TERRIBLE smell, very odorific. It's quite odorific. However, it is brown, not green. Just darker than tan? Basically, they rot. It's 50/50 when they hop in your lap if the smell is tolerable. My adults are grooming them, but not a lot yet. Lynette
Re: kittens with diarrhea
Oh yeah, I completely understand! I don't do raw or homemade myself for JUST that reason, too much effort (and money)! It might be ok to just feed him the chic ken and turkey you are plus a bit of a general supplement, like say Feline Missing Li nk, or Vita-tabs, or anything just as a general vitamin/mineral source (not optimal, but better than just the meat alone). If he's refusing to eat the kibble, and all he is eating is chicken and turkey though, it's not going to be a viable long-term option. Ahh, I see. Yes, this is exactly why I was planning to continue to offer him Science diet several times a day. I know just plain old chicken/turkey is not nutritionally complete. This was more about getting him some healthy calories to replace some of the cancer corn. I'll take a look at the links and if there's a supplement maybe I can shift the balance some. The other confession I should make, while I'm confessing my cat feeding sins is, we give Otis, Bandit, Smokey 1/2 can fancy feast each, each evening. Gussie has to get wet DM so we can shoot her safely with insulin, and the babies have been having the limited ingredient with the probiotic mixed in. Maybe if you all yell at me enough, I'll figure out how to replace the FF with something better -- but they are totally addicted to whatever kittykrack the nasty FF makers put in there. What a super cool group. I am amazed at the level of answers, how much everyone knows, etc... and how tolerant everyone seems to be. I'm delighted to have found this group. Lynette
Re: kittens have diarrhea
so it's light in color? It could still be trich though, even if it's not the right color, I would do the testing and see what comes up. Maybe take in a mixed poo sample from the box, a dab from each kitten. How long ago were they weaned? I missed their age I think? Is it patty-like, it holds it's form kind of in a puddle in the box, not real liquidy? Does it stick to the bottom of the box, like clay? I would add more fiber to their diet, which is the opposite of feeding the low-residue food. It may get worse before it gets better that way though. The concept behind the low residue food is that there's less to poo so it makes for less diarrhea. Where the idea of adding more fiber works by absorbing some of the liquid, and makes poo more solid (but it makes more poo). Evo is low residue too though, so you'd have to add a secondary fiber source. Pumpkin, or a fiber supplement for humans (just make sure there's no chemicals and it's JUST fiber, I'm not sure of cat safe OTC fiber drugs), or Feline Missing Link, that's high fiber too. Phaewryn Don't Lose Your Pet! Register at AWOLpet.com: http://AWOLPet.com (use referral code: LittleCheetah) Whitey's Story: http://ucat.us/Whitey.html 12/24/06 Whitey Pictures: http://ucat.us/Whitey/WhiteyNewPics.html Whitey Models on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140070302069
Re: kittens with diarrhea
Mine get occasional fancy feast too, it's not too bad if it's limited to a snack, and not the primary food source. I use it to hide medicine in all the time, it's a great kitty junk food. Just remember that's what it is, and use it accordingly. You wouldn't eat a big mac and a large fry for all your daily meals, if you did, it would be bad. Treat FF like fast food for cats, good for occasional happiness, but not good for much else. I usually split 2 cans between 6 cats, so it's a heaping tablespoon each. Like a good dessert, LOL! Just don't give it to the poopy kittens, it's got too much stomach and intestinal irritating junk in it for them just now. My cats HATE the canned EVO, they would rather starve than eat it. The Califorina Natural canned seems to go over better, and the Wellness canned seems to be even better, for my cats anyways. Phaewryn Don't Lose Your Pet! Register at AWOLpet.com: http://AWOLPet.com (use referral code: LittleCheetah) Whitey's Story: http://ucat.us/Whitey.html 12/24/06 Whitey Pictures: http://ucat.us/Whitey/WhiteyNewPics.html Whitey Models on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140070302069
