Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote: but here are some examples that work in Acrobat on Mac but not in Preview: I only tried the first example, but it displays fine in Preview. In fact it looks 1000 times more beautiful in Preview than it does in Reader 8 on Mac. The Reader 8 rendition shows all the traits of the terrible FinWin PDF output, while Preview displays it properly. I am sure both print just fine. There really is something very wrong with FinWin's PDF output. I am sure if you sent me the original Finale file I could render a PDF on the Mac which will display beautifully in Reader 8. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote: I am on Windows XP using acrobat pro 7 and I have no PDF problems whatsoever. You can't blame the PDF output - the problem seems to be the Preview program on Mac. No, now we really are getting confused here. The screen display of Windows produced Finale PDFs is just fine in Preview. It is awful in Reader 8, and I was under the impression the same was true for the Windows version of Reader. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote: I have no problems with Finale and PDF on Windows. I use Acrobat pro 7 and sometimes do 30 PDFs a day. They are crisp and clean. Don't blame Finale - check your program and settings. You mean in printout or on screen? I don't think there ever was a problem in printout, ony the screen display. Can you post an example to a website? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote: Another thing that strikes immediately is the difference in quality between in the PDFs on screen between Finale and Sibelius. You know, I look at those two examples and all I see is Finale files produced using default settings, as opposed to created with the kinds of bautiful layout and settings that you, for instance, produce in your editions. PDF quality aside (I can't get past the unedited nature of the layout of the Finale files), Finale *can* produce editions just as beautiful as the Sibelius one. You mean you cannot see the difference in screen display of those two PDFs? Which PDF display application do you use? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Speedy entry, cursor doesn't move
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Does anybody have an answer to this? I'm still drawing a blank... Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote, on 9/17/2007 9:59 PM: This must be easy. A colleague also uses Finale Speedy entry, but with a Midi keyboard. I don't, so can't answer this. It sounds familiar, but neither of us can find it in the manual. For some reason, he'll be entering notes one at a time, and the cursor will stop advancing and it will enter the notes at the same position, as if he were entering a chord. If he exits and re-enters the Speedy frame, the cursor advances again normally. At some point, something will make the cursor stop again. Sound familiar? Just can't place it... Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale I've never run into it, but my best guess is that some background process is taking over the CPU for short periods of time. Possibly a wireless network connection turned on with no wireless networks around to connect to? Such things keep on polling the area looking for wireless networks to connect to and can take over the CPU to the point that things will slow down, if not outright stop. Other potential interruption causers could be internet programs or e-mail programs running in the background. Have him use ctrl-alt-del to turn off all but the most essential Windows processes. Of course, if your friend is on a Mac, I have no clue what could be causing the problem. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Slightly OT: Paper weight
John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I saved the site below last time this question came up. Be aware that in the U.S. there are two different sets of weight names. 28-lb Bond, according to this chart, equals 70-lb Offset. http://www.paper-paper.com/weight.html Thanks for the URL. It makes me realise how (relatively) simple life is in the metric world, where if I am in any doubt as to whether I am using 80 gm or 100 gm paper I can just weigh one sheet of A4 and multiply by 16. The paper-handling recommendations are a reminder of how much paper feed mechanisms have improved during the last 20 years. When did you last fan a pile of paper on all four sides? -- Ken Moore ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Speedy entry, cursor doesn't move
I've never run into it, but my best guess is that some background process is taking over the CPU for short periods of time. Okay, then this isn't some sort of keyboard shortcut that's accidentally being turned on? I vaguely remembered a key combo that would keep the cursor in place to enter chords, and thought he might be hitting that. Guess not. If the cursor isn't supposed to stop for any reason, then that's all I need to know. (For example, once in a while I'll accidentally hit the combo to turn on one of the international keyboards; since I rarely look at the screen when I type, some interesting texts result...) Many thanks, Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Kurt Gnos wrote: [snip] I wish our list could be strong enough to DEMAND this. [snip] The demands/requests are there -- what is needed is for MakeMusic to respond in a manner which shows that they care about their installed customer base, instead of using Finale-generated income to support their SmartMusic development. And the other aspect which is required is for Sibelius to be willing to open its file format, something it has never felt the need to do. And now that it's safely within the Avid corporate fold, they most likely will never feel that they have to. And I'm sure the cross-grade sales for users of Finale is supporting their opinion in this matter. It would be very interesting to see the amount of cross-grade sales of Sibelius for Finale-users and compare that with cross-grade sales of Finale for Sibelius users. My bet would be that there is a larger flow from Finale to Sibelius than the other way around. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Unexpected Quit on Start
Dick Hauser / 07.9.22 / 0:32 PM wrote: Yes. I've loaded a midi file into quicktime and it plays just fine. Exported that to the desktop as midi and then dragged to DP5 which played without a problem (after changing output for midi to my Emu and DMP. Seems you can isolate the problem to FinMac2k8. I do have occasional crash on launch, and it seems the PACE driver gets stuck on Finale cache, in my guesses. When it happens, I have to power- cycle. I'd like to know if you see any improvement by trashing Finale pref files, including plists, the power-cycle. Power-cycling MTP/AV and 2408Mrk-II isn't necessary but do it just to be sure. The logical but non technical guess is that the Finale pref which calls HAL is corrupted and crashes. The next step of troubleshooting is to trash pref files so Finale picks Built-in by default. If it still crashes, the crash log will look different, and will give different clue. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Ok, the stafflines are displaying better in low resolution. Since I need PDFs for printing, I don't mind much. And when I want to look a PDFs, I use high resolution (1920x1200), and that's fine - say, compared with the quality of tons of scanned PDFs I have... But here is a simple solution. If the staff lines are troubling you - just go to document options - Lines and curves - and set the line thickness of staff lines to a lower value - I used 0.003 in my sample PDF that you can get from: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/kgnos/thickness.pdf If you need other things fixed for PDF screen display, just so it (e. g. beams) - but remember, this will also affect printing. Kurt -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von dc Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. September 2007 11:10 An: finale@shsu.edu; finale@shsu.edu Betreff: Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale Kim Patrick Clow écrit: I posted 3 new files... GWV529-Finale.pdf is a PDF of the Finale file. GWV529-Sibelius.pdf is a PDF of the Sibelius first reading of the XML generated by Finale. GWV529-Sibelius-cleaned-up.pdf is a PDF of the file after it was cleaned up in Sibelius. Thanks. If anyone has trouble seeing the difference in quality in the PDFs on screen, and in particular in the staff lines, I'm afraid it's an eye problem! Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote: But here is a simple solution. If the staff lines are troubling you - just go to document options - Lines and curves - and set the line thickness of staff lines to a lower value - I used 0.003 in my sample PDF that you can get from: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/kgnos/thickness.pdf If you need other things fixed for PDF screen display, just so it (e. g. beams) - but remember, this will also affect printing. Exactly. I don't think anyone wants to compromise the printing aspect for better screen display. You may not be bothered by the problem, but it is still a big problem for some, and it is not as it should be. Just one other area where a small bug is causing big headaches, and MakeMusic could probably easily fix it. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Unlinking graphics?
Is there a way to have a page graphic only display in one part? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Unlinking graphics?
On 23.09.2007 Johannes Gebauer wrote: Is there a way to have a page graphic only display in one part? I realized I can use a measure graphic in this case. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:41 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote: I am on Windows XP using acrobat pro 7 and I have no PDF problems whatsoever. You can't blame the PDF output - the problem seems to be the Preview program on Mac. No, now we really are getting confused here. The screen display of Windows produced Finale PDFs is just fine in Preview. It is awful in Reader 8, and I was under the impression the same was true for the Windows version of Reader. Not on my system. Preview makes all the line grey onscreen, but only from SOME Windows-produced PDFs (Mac ones look fine), but Reader 8 looks great. All PDFs print fine, though. Just on my system, it looks like, though! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Slightly OT: Paper weight
On Sep 23, 2007, at 6:47 AM, Ken Moore wrote: John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.paper-paper.com/weight.html Thanks for the URL. It makes me realise how (relatively) simple life is in the metric world, where if I am in any doubt as to whether I am using 80 gm or 100 gm paper I can just weigh one sheet of A4 and multiply by 16. Yup, I envy youse guys for that. Also for the fact that all the A sizes keep their proportions when going to the next size up or down! The paper-handling recommendations are a reminder of how much paper feed mechanisms have improved during the last 20 years. When did you last fan a pile of paper on all four sides? Always! It ensures proper feeding, as they say. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On Sep 23, 2007, at 8:11 AM, dc wrote: dhbailey écrit: My bet would be that there is a larger flow from Finale to Sibelius than the other way around. Of course! MM is doing its best to send its users to Sibelius... I know many people who have made the switch from F to S, and none who have done the opposite. Oh, I know a few. Mostly they cite the many adjustable facets of Finale as the reason. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Christopher Smith wrote: On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:41 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote: I am on Windows XP using acrobat pro 7 and I have no PDF problems whatsoever. You can't blame the PDF output - the problem seems to be the Preview program on Mac. No, now we really are getting confused here. The screen display of Windows produced Finale PDFs is just fine in Preview. It is awful in Reader 8, and I was under the impression the same was true for the Windows version of Reader. Not on my system. Preview makes all the line grey onscreen, but only from SOME Windows-produced PDFs (Mac ones look fine), but Reader 8 looks great. All PDFs print fine, though. Just on my system, it looks like, though! Christopher This may serve to show that the problem A) isn't really a MakeMusic problem or B) is totally unsolvable, since it isn't even reproduceable on two different computer systems. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Mac F2008 Crash on Open
If any mac owners have the time to test. In working on my problem of F2k8 crash on open, I've noticed that the Audio Midi Setup pane of OS is set to 2-ch 24-bit. The MM tech mentioned that Finale only wants 16 bit, but since the crash seems to happen when Finale is initializing midi (not Core midi, after that) he decided not to pursue it. Just for laughs, I decided to try booting with the Audio Midi Setup set at 16-bit. However, the format pull down for Audio/Midi Setup has no option but 24-bit. The only place in my system that I've found so far that can change bit depth, is in Digital Performer which has a preference pane which allows one to specify the bit depth of newly recorded material. Changing that back and forth seemed to have no effect on the Audio/ Midi Setup configuration. So I'm curious, does any one have options in that Audio/Midi Setup pull down? Dick H 1224 2408 MkII MTPAV Morpheus DMPro G5 Dual 2 Ghz 4 Gig OSX 10.4.10 PCI 424 DP 5.12 PCI Audio Midi Set up v 1.31 Clockworks v 1.51 Cuemix Console v 1.42 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
At 8:03 AM -0400 9/23/07, dhbailey wrote: It would be very interesting to see the amount of cross-grade sales of Sibelius for Finale-users and compare that with cross-grade sales of Finale for Sibelius users. My bet would be that there is a larger flow from Finale to Sibelius than the other way around. This is simply a parenthetical comment, not a call for discussion. One of the lists I'm on is the 18th Century Interdisciplinary Discussion List--mostly frighteningly literate and knowledgeable English professors, some of whom know more about 18th century music than I do. A recent question came up from someone who needs to transcribe an example of 18th century music (I suspect maybe a broadside) and get it into a Word document. (This person does not read music at all, and is working with a high school choir director who has Finale.) In the course of the discussion, Noteworthy Composer was brought up. I thought it had disappeared, but there's an active website and development seems to be ongoing. Version 1.0 had very serious limitations, but whoever is doing the development seems to be working away at it, and at $39 for a licensed version it's dirt cheap for someone who doesn't need a lot of power. (Plus there's a free player that can be downloaded and distributed to, e.g., one's church choir.) The major limitation remains that it is a Windows-only program. Reported without comment. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On Sep 23, 2007, at 1:20 PM, dhbailey wrote: Christopher Smith wrote: On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:41 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote: I am on Windows XP using acrobat pro 7 and I have no PDF problems whatsoever. You can't blame the PDF output - the problem seems to be the Preview program on Mac. No, now we really are getting confused here. The screen display of Windows produced Finale PDFs is just fine in Preview. It is awful in Reader 8, and I was under the impression the same was true for the Windows version of Reader. Not on my system. Preview makes all the line grey onscreen, but only from SOME Windows-produced PDFs (Mac ones look fine), but Reader 8 looks great. All PDFs print fine, though. Just on my system, it looks like, though! Christopher This may serve to show that the problem A) isn't really a MakeMusic problem or B) is totally unsolvable, since it isn't even reproduceable on two different computer systems. I'm not convinced of either of those conclusions, though I concede that A) is a distinct possibility. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Since PDFs are basically postscript, and Finale's display, I guess, is also a kind of postscript, this should be solved easily. Finale's superior fine tuning possibilities (like the possibility to adjust the thickness of staff lines) has its ups, on the other hand drawing the lines as hairlines would solve the PDF displaying badly on screens. Defaults - Sibelius has much better defaults for formatting and display, I guess. And that is what people want. It is nice that in Finale we are able to fine-tune everything - BUT this should not be necessary as often... Kurt -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Johannes Gebauer Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. September 2007 17:23 An: finale@shsu.edu Betreff: Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale On 23.09.2007 Kurt Gnos wrote: But here is a simple solution. If the staff lines are troubling you - just go to document options - Lines and curves - and set the line thickness of staff lines to a lower value - I used 0.003 in my sample PDF that you can get from: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/kgnos/thickness.pdf If you need other things fixed for PDF screen display, just so it (e. g. beams) - but remember, this will also affect printing. Exactly. I don't think anyone wants to compromise the printing aspect for better screen display. You may not be bothered by the problem, but it is still a big problem for some, and it is not as it should be. Just one other area where a small bug is causing big headaches, and MakeMusic could probably easily fix it. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Since PDFs are basically postscript, and Finale's display, I guess, is also a kind of postscript, this should be solved easily. This does not address the fact that Finale's Compile Postscript Listing function produces a perfect display. Finale prints to Postscript and compiles Postscript quite differently. Just look at the Postscript listings themselves. They're different almost immediately -- and it doesn't matter which Postscript driver is used. I've been through dozens because I have many installed for different print jobs. I also have Distiller, Ghostscript and docPrint Pro. The same results occur with those -- great results from Compile Postscript Listing and terrible from printing to Postscript. The example you posted looks like the quality display produced by Compile Postscript Listing rather than print-to-Postscript. What was your printing sequence from Finale? And what printer driver were you printing to? Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
PS to previous: The reason this is very important for me is that Compile Postscript Listing does *not* include embedded graphics. For many scores, I need them, and have had to fall back on printing to Postscript and its poor results. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23.09.2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The example you posted looks like the quality display produced by Compile Postscript Listing rather than print-to-Postscript. What was your printing sequence from Finale? And what printer driver were you printing to? No, he just used very thin lines. If you print this example it will look pretty awful, at least to my eyes. If you look at the example at high magnification you will still see that the lines don't anti-alias, and display slightly different thicknesses. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23.09.2007 Christopher Smith wrote: Not on my system. Preview makes all the line grey onscreen, but only from SOME Windows-produced PDFs (Mac ones look fine), but Reader 8 looks great. But the lines should be grey. They are thinner than one pixel, so the anti-aliasing should make it grey. The problem with the windows PDF output displayed in Reader is that all the lines are different thickness, extremely thick, and the notes are so blotchy one can't read them. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Johannes wrote: No, he just used very thin lines. If you print this example it will look pretty awful, at least to my eyes. If you look at the example at high magnification you will still see that the lines don't anti-alias, and display slightly different thicknesses. The lines are very thin, but showing identical thicknesses here. I enlarged to 6400% on Acrobat Reader 8 with no issues. And the curves (which are normally disasters in print-to-Postscript displays) also show as curves, not at all jagged. The beams are not showing up as multiple lines at any magnification, which is a characteristic of print-to-Postscript under Windows. And the file size is very small. Now if I can see one of these with embedded graphics :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
AW: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
I just used the Acrobat 7 printer driver. No compile postscript - You see why I'm quite happy with Finale's PDF output now...;-) BUT I adjusted the staff line width in Finale. In fact, I have wonderful output from any program whatsoever. In Quark Xpress, you can also save as postscript - I get better results just using the Acrobat (professional) output in Windows XP. No complaints whatsoever. Kurt -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. September 2007 21:47 An: finale@shsu.edu Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale Since PDFs are basically postscript, and Finale's display, I guess, is also a kind of postscript, this should be solved easily. This does not address the fact that Finale's Compile Postscript Listing function produces a perfect display. Finale prints to Postscript and compiles Postscript quite differently. Just look at the Postscript listings themselves. They're different almost immediately -- and it doesn't matter which Postscript driver is used. I've been through dozens because I have many installed for different print jobs. I also have Distiller, Ghostscript and docPrint Pro. The same results occur with those -- great results from Compile Postscript Listing and terrible from printing to Postscript. The example you posted looks like the quality display produced by Compile Postscript Listing rather than print-to-Postscript. What was your printing sequence from Finale? And what printer driver were you printing to? Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
AW: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Dennis, I used to use EPS a lot, and since Finale couldn't get them working for a decade or so, I switched to Tiffs. Pity, since I like EPS and the possibility to enlarge or shrink the EPS at will without losing quality. I never had any problems with PDFs, though, and sometimes I use them as a workaround for the erratic EPS functionality. But I certainly have not used compile postscript listing for years. There ARE borders between usability and just fiddling around, praying and hoping. Maybe getting Acrobat Pro 7 or 8 might solve your issues... Kurt -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. September 2007 22:05 An: finale@shsu.edu Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale PS to previous: The reason this is very important for me is that Compile Postscript Listing does *not* include embedded graphics. For many scores, I need them, and have had to fall back on printing to Postscript and its poor results. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23 Sep 2007 at 10:38, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote: but here are some examples that work in Acrobat on Mac but not in Preview: I only tried the first example, but it displays fine in Preview. In fact it looks 1000 times more beautiful in Preview than it does in Reader 8 on Mac. The Reader 8 rendition shows all the traits of the terrible FinWin PDF output, while Preview displays it properly. I am sure both print just fine. Well, I don't know what version of OS X my teacher has on her computer, so it must be something to do with that version of Preview. There really is something very wrong with FinWin's PDF output. I am sure if you sent me the original Finale file I could render a PDF on the Mac which will display beautifully in Reader 8. I don't have the files here on this computer, but I will have them tomorrow, and I'll do just that. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
AW: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Dennis, you can send me a Finale File using embedded Graphics, and I will print it using Acrobat 7 Pro in XP and upload the output. Kurt -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. September 2007 22:22 An: finale@shsu.edu Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale Johannes wrote: No, he just used very thin lines. If you print this example it will look pretty awful, at least to my eyes. If you look at the example at high magnification you will still see that the lines don't anti-alias, and display slightly different thicknesses. The lines are very thin, but showing identical thicknesses here. I enlarged to 6400% on Acrobat Reader 8 with no issues. And the curves (which are normally disasters in print-to-Postscript displays) also show as curves, not at all jagged. The beams are not showing up as multiple lines at any magnification, which is a characteristic of print-to-Postscript under Windows. And the file size is very small. Now if I can see one of these with embedded graphics :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23 Sep 2007 at 11:10, dc wrote: Kim Patrick Clow écrit: I posted 3 new files... GWV529-Finale.pdf is a PDF of the Finale file. GWV529-Sibelius.pdf is a PDF of the Sibelius first reading of the XML generated by Finale. GWV529-Sibelius-cleaned-up.pdf is a PDF of the file after it was cleaned up in Sibelius. Thanks. If anyone has trouble seeing the difference in quality in the PDFs on screen, and in particular in the staff lines, I'm afraid it's an eye problem! Looking at them again, yes, I see that horizontal lines (staff lines, beams) are bad in the Finale version. But I don't see this as Finale's fault -- it's a bug in Acrobat Reader, which used to render these without problems (back in version 6). I was completely ignoring those factors as I've learned to look past them because I see them as entirely Acrobat's fault. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23 Sep 2007 at 11:07, dc wrote: David W. Fenton écrit: You know, I look at those two examples and all I see is Finale files produced using default settings, as opposed to created with the kinds of bautiful layout and settings that you, for instance, produce in your editions. PDF quality aside (I can't get past the unedited nature of the layout of the Finale files), Finale *can* produce editions just as beautiful as the Sibelius one. I agree, of course, but Finale can't produce as beautiful PDFs as Sibelius if you simply print to a PDF driver (Adobe's, or any other). The staff lines, in particular (and this IS a major issue for music!) appear to be of different widths, and the differences jump around depending on the magnification. But that is not a problem of the PDF file, but of the program rendering the PDF. Acrobat Reader *used* to render Finale staff lines just fine (version 6), but since version 7, it has been screwed up (though it's been improved in version 8). Now, obviously, it's possible to produce PDF output from Finale that does not exhibit this problem, but that means that PDF output is tweaked in a way that doesn't trigger the problem in rendering in Acrobat Reader. So, to me, it looks like an Acrobat Reader problem (especially given that you say OS X Preview doesn't have these problems). Secondly, I am not using any PostScript fonts in my output. My PDF driver produces PDFs from any source, whatever the fonts (which are all TrueType). So, I just don't see how the problem could be with Finale, unless it's using some kind of non-standard method of describing the lines. If someone who understands PostScript could look at Finale's PS output and compare it to the embedded PS inside a PDF produced without the intermediate compile-to-PS step, perhaps it would be possible to identify what's causing Acrobat Reader to render the files so poorly. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
you can send me a Finale File using embedded Graphics, and I will print it using Acrobat 7 Pro in XP and upload the output. Kurt, Most of my files are 20-100MB with their embedded graphics -- a tad too large to send. But I am trying another set of new drivers, and other than the staff lines, they're not so bad. But the pscript5.dll version you're using doesn't work here. Many thanks, Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23 Sep 2007 at 11:20, dc wrote: We've already discussed this several times (with each new version of Finale), and the problem arises from the fact that where the lines in Sibelius PDFs (and perhaps MacFin PDFs) are real lines of the proper thickness, Finale lines are made of several thin lines stacked up. And Acrobat Reader in the past has been able to render Finale's lines onscreen without any problem. In my experience it was Acrobat Reader 7 that introduced the problem in the first place (something you'd see in any version of Acrobat without line smoothing turned on). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23 Sep 2007 at 21:37, Kurt Gnos wrote: Since PDFs are basically postscript, and Finale's display, I guess, is also a kind of postscript, Huh? How does Finale on Windows utilize PS onscreen? The fact is, it doesn't. For that matter, on Mac, display PS *is* used for rendering, but at the OS level, not in Finale itself. Finale takes its data file, translates it into what it wants painted onscreen, then hands that off to the OS, which then renders it using display PS. On Windows, of course, no PS is involved in the display at all (except maybe the fonts). this should be solved easily. It's the same issue we've been discussion with the XML converter -- Finale converts its data file to its internal represention of what should appear onscreen and then hands it off to the OS to render. That means there's a conversion/translation operation, so that's where problems can creep in. Finale is drawing the lines onscreen in a way that Acrobat Reader doesn't render well. To me, the problem is with Acrobat, not with Finale, though the ubiquity of Acrobat should give Finale's developers pause in rendering their lines as multiple lines, instead of in the more usual vector-based approach (i.e., describe the line by its width and thickness, rather than drawing multiple skinny lines to get a thick line). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OK, time to find out what AW means
When I see 50 such posts in my inbox, I assume somebody is circulating pictures of cute kittens in a basket. Is it actually: Answer Wanted (a strong candidate) Award-Winning (for the particularly egotistical) Asshole Whining (insert your own joke) Articulations Went away (not-so-funny joke) Thanks, whoever feels like telling me. --David Lawrence ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23 Sep 2007 at 15:46, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since PDFs are basically postscript, and Finale's display, I guess, is also a kind of postscript, this should be solved easily. This does not address the fact that Finale's Compile Postscript Listing function produces a perfect display. Finale prints to Postscript and compiles Postscript quite differently. This is perfectly explainable. On Windows, there is the native graphics/printing subsystem, which has zilch to do with PostScript. On Windows, Finale outputs using the Windows graphics/printing subsystem's primitives, which are then translated by a specific printer driver into that printer's output language. So, on Windows when printing to a PDF driver, Finale is sending *Windows* commands that are then translated by the driver into PostScript. When you compile a PS listing, Finale is doing the conversion, rather than letting the PDF driver do it, and Finale probably sends different commands to its internal PS interpreter than it would send to the Windows universal print driver. On Mac, there is no issue of this kind, as the Mac universal print driver is built on top of PostScript in the first place, so the same Finale primitive output could drive both compiling to PS and printing to a PDF driver. But, again, the problem as I see it is *not* with Finale, but with Acrobat's incorrect line smoothing. I don't know why Finale sends multiple thin lines instead of a single line with a particular thickness to the print driver, but perhaps there's a reason for that. I fear, though, that the reason is that this is a holdover from pre- TrueType days (i.e., circa Finale 2.01). I can't imagine that any modern printer or display could not properly render a line that was defined as a single line with a thickness instead of as a bunch of thing lines bunched together to make a thick line. But I don't know the details. Perhaps it's much more complicated than it looks and that's why MM has not changed the way Finale on Windows outputs lines to the universal printer driver. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23 Sep 2007 at 10:33, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 23.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote: Another thing that strikes immediately is the difference in quality between in the PDFs on screen between Finale and Sibelius. You know, I look at those two examples and all I see is Finale files produced using default settings, as opposed to created with the kinds of bautiful layout and settings that you, for instance, produce in your editions. PDF quality aside (I can't get past the unedited nature of the layout of the Finale files), Finale *can* produce editions just as beautiful as the Sibelius one. You mean you cannot see the difference in screen display of those two PDFs? Which PDF display application do you use? I used the Acrobat Reader 8 plugin in Firefox. I think you're missing my point, though. Dennis's file is very carefully laid out and Kim's looks to me like it was just put in as fast as possible without doing anything at all to adjust it to make it look good (which is a reasonable approach in certain circumstances and I'm not meaning it as a criticism of Kim's work). That makes much more of an impression on my eye than the fine details of PDF rendering. Now, if the engraving were of equal quality, then the PDF quality would be obvious. But for me, the two examples make it almost impossible for me to see any of the PDF rendering differences. It could also be that my bad eyesight obscures a lot of it from me, too (though I don't think so). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23 Sep 2007 at 22:02, Johannes Gebauer wrote: The problem with the windows PDF output displayed in Reader is that all the lines are different thickness, extremely thick, and the notes are so blotchy one can't read them. Well, that's a horse of a different color. On every PC I've ever viewed my own PDFs (with Acrobat Reader), *some* of the lines are of varying thicknesses, and usually just two different thicknesses (1 pixel or 2), and the notes themselves are just fine and dandy. I do note that increasing the magnification from 100% to 200% to 300% to 400% causes different lines to be thicker/thinner, but still, there's just two line thicknesses (1 pixel or 2). But, again, I cite Acrobat Reader 6, which was able to smooth these lines so that the thicknesses did not vary, and did not do it with anti-aliasing that resulted in gray lines. But I've *never* seen blurry noteheads (I have seen a few blurry beams, but mostly when the angle was very shallow and the anti- aliasing had to be spread over a number of horizontal pixels). There could also be differences on Windows machines depending on whether you're using Windows anti-aliasing or the newer ClearType (which is designed specifically for LCD screens and shouldn't be used with CRTs). While ClearType has major flaws (see http://antigrain.com/research/font_rasterization/index.html for a detailed look at the problem), it works quite well for getting onscreen clarity. But Acrobat Reader perhaps uses internal methods for this, and maybe this is why things look bad on Windows (the basic difference between Apple anti-aliasing and MS anti-aliasing is whether you respect the font shape/widths or respect the screen grid; if you do the former, you get blurry text that is properly proportioned at all sizes and on all devices; if you do the latter, the proportions change according to the size, because you're adjusting the glyph shape to the pixel grid) -- because Windows users are used to seeing a different kind of anti-aliasing, or because the two kinds of anti-aliasing cause conflicts. Of course, I don't have a problem with Acrobat Reader's rendering of anything but lines, so I'm not sure where the fuzzy notes are coming from. I've simply never seen it. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OK, time to find out what AW means
AW is the German abbreviation for ANSWER. When I see 50 such posts in my inbox, I assume somebody is circulating pictures of cute kittens in a basket. Is it actually: Answer Wanted (a strong candidate) Award-Winning (for the particularly egotistical) Asshole Whining (insert your own joke) Articulations Went away (not-so-funny joke) Thanks, whoever feels like telling me. --David Lawrence ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OK, time to find out what AW means
It could mean antwoord in Dutch (answer). I haven't seen any cute kittens, except for my red Freekje (= little Frederick, in Dutch) lying in front of me on the desk. Going to bed now! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I see 50 such posts in my inbox, I assume somebody is circulating pictures of cute kittens in a basket. Is it actually: Answer Wanted (a strong candidate) Award-Winning (for the particularly egotistical) Asshole Whining (insert your own joke) Articulations Went away (not-so-funny joke) Thanks, whoever feels like telling me. --David Lawrence ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On 23 Sep 2007 at 22:09, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 23.09.2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The example you posted looks like the quality display produced by Compile Postscript Listing rather than print-to-Postscript. What was your printing sequence from Finale? And what printer driver were you printing to? No, he just used very thin lines. If you print this example it will look pretty awful, at least to my eyes. If you look at the example at high magnification you will still see that the lines don't anti-alias, and display slightly different thicknesses. Huh? Viewed in what software? When I look at the example at 100% and 2400% (or any other magnification I choose) in Acrobat Reader 8 none of the staff lines are aliased. NONE. True, it will not print well, but if you're producing your PDF for online use, this seems like a good solution to me. It also discourages people from printing it and using it. But no, it's not a good solution for PDFs that are intended to be printed. Of course, this just shows the inherent conflict at the heart of all PDFs: The requirements of onscreen and printed output are often in severe conflict with each other. I have always felt that PDF works much better for printed output than for onscreen display (fonts for print are usually too small in relation to page size for ease of use on a screen, unless you have one of those portrait-mode monitors). This is the same problem I always had with the Sibelius page display for editing (which has been eliminated as a problem in Sib5), that what I needed to see all at once was the whole page, or just the part I was editing, and moving from system to system caused it to jump around. And viewing a full page at a time everything was too small. Anyway, I'm just blathering now, so I'll stop! :) -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 23.09.2007 Christopher Smith wrote: Not on my system. Preview makes all the line grey onscreen, but only from SOME Windows-produced PDFs (Mac ones look fine), but Reader 8 looks great. But the lines should be grey. They are thinner than one pixel, so the anti-aliasing should make it grey. Nah. The beams are grey, too, and everything is still grey at high magnifications. Also some very thin lines are completely black, so that can't be it. Also Mac-produced PDFs never have grey anything. The problem with the windows PDF output displayed in Reader is that all the lines are different thickness, extremely thick, and the notes are so blotchy one can't read them. Hmm, not my experience. Do you have Reader 8, the newest one? David Bailey pointed out that it is hard to make an accurate diagnosis when the results are so different on different systems. It certainly isn't helping! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Mac F2008 Crash on Open
Dick Hauser / 07.9.23 / 1:44 PM wrote: In working on my problem of F2k8 crash on open, I've noticed that the Audio Midi Setup pane of OS is set to 2-ch 24-bit. The MM tech mentioned that Finale only wants 16 bit, but since the crash seems to happen when Finale is initializing midi (not Core midi, after that) he decided not to pursue it. Just for laughs, I decided to try booting with the Audio Midi Setup set at 16-bit. However, the format pull down for Audio/Midi Setup has no option but 24-bit. Unfortunately the tech person you talked doesn't know much. The A/D format isn't something you can chose. It's not like sample rate. The bit depth is only a file format. Your 2048 A/D is 20-bit (24-bit if mark-ii). That is a spec of the converter. When you track with DP, you have a choice to write the file in 24-bit or 16-bit. Finale only wants 16-bit doesn't make sense. Have you tried trashing Finale pref as I suggested? In you crash log, this appears in line 2: 2 ...u.driver.PCIAudio.HALPlugIn 0x0799df8c PlugInDevice::GetProperty (unsigned long, bool, unsigned long, unsigned long*, void*) + 384 In my guess, what this is telling you is Finale is calling PCI424 driver then receives something Finale doesn't understand and crashes. You should also try assign Built-in under AMS to see if Finale still crashes. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: AW: AW: [Finale] Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Dennis, Try yousendit.com for large files. They allow files to be sent up to 100mb when you register. I find it very useful. Christopher On Sep 23, 2007, at 5:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you can send me a Finale File using embedded Graphics, and I will print it using Acrobat 7 Pro in XP and upload the output. Kurt, Most of my files are 20-100MB with their embedded graphics -- a tad too large to send. But I am trying another set of new drivers, and other than the staff lines, they're not so bad. But the pscript5.dll version you're using doesn't work here. Many thanks, Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Transposition and Concert-Pitch
Hello you people out there, Does anyone know what Coda has done to alternate transposition thingy being found in the STAFF-ATTRIBUTE/EDIT box? I add a String bass to my score which should sound 8vb but the East West Colossus Sampler cannot play it being that it is out of range. Same procedure in F2006 works well. Hmmm...? There are other things as well I don't understand in 2007 but I got to make sure that this is not my fault before bothering you :-) Kind regards A.N.Cap ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Transposition and Concert-Pitch
On Sep 23, 2007, at 6:28 PM, Andrew Noah Cap wrote: Hello you people out there, Does anyone know what Coda has done to alternate transposition thingy being found in the STAFF-ATTRIBUTE/EDIT box? I add a String bass to my score which should sound 8vb but the East West Colossus Sampler cannot play it being that it is out of range. Same procedure in F2006 works well. Hmmm...? There are other things as well I don't understand in 2007 but I got to make sure that this is not my fault before bothering you :-) Kind regards A.N.Cap As far as I know, nothing changed with 2007 in that area. How did you add the staff, with the Staff Tool double clicking or with New Staves With Setup Wizard? The second gives you a properly transposing bass staff, the first doesn't, so you would have to do it manually. I can't say anything about how East West maps their bass patches, but I have seen very inconsistent behaviour with many sound sets regarding correct octaves. You didn't say if it was too high or too low. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
