Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Raymond Horton]

I think it is a riot! More power to them!

Raymond Horton
Composer, Arranger
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra, 1971-2016


On Dec 8, 2016 7:42 PM, "SN jef chippewa" 
wrote:

>
> RESPECT! finale knows its priorities.  so development $ was spent on
> this -- and on writing a blog entry to explain the (ahem) 5 difficult
> steps to get a beer mug to show over your music!!! -- and we are
> still only back up to the speed of F2012 on the mac side?!?!?!?!
>
> are you fucking serious?!
>
> "Just for fun, we built a font that includes Patricia's symbols, so
> you can use them in any size or combination in your Finale files. We
> even put them into a Finale file modeled after Patricia's original"
> (4 nov on finale blog)
> http://www.finalemusic.com/blog/articulations-wish-use
>
> well... not sure what to say here, other than "Thanks, [Finale], for
> reminding all of us that there's room for humor in music notation!"
>
> --
>
> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
>
> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
>
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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Steve Parker]

I’ve actually written ‘this is not a typo’ on parts…

Steve P.

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 00:42, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> RESPECT! finale knows its priorities.  so development $ was spent on 
> this -- and on writing a blog entry to explain the (ahem) 5 difficult 
> steps to get a beer mug to show over your music!!! -- and we are 
> still only back up to the speed of F2012 on the mac side?!?!?!?!
> 
> are you fucking serious?!
> 
> "Just for fun, we built a font that includes Patricia's symbols, so 
> you can use them in any size or combination in your Finale files. We 
> even put them into a Finale file modeled after Patricia's original" 
> (4 nov on finale blog)
> http://www.finalemusic.com/blog/articulations-wish-use
> 
> well... not sure what to say here, other than "Thanks, [Finale], for 
> reminding all of us that there's room for humor in music notation!"
> 
> -- 
> 
> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
> 
> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu


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[Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[SN jef chippewa]

RESPECT! finale knows its priorities.  so development $ was spent on 
this -- and on writing a blog entry to explain the (ahem) 5 difficult 
steps to get a beer mug to show over your music!!! -- and we are 
still only back up to the speed of F2012 on the mac side?!?!?!?!

are you fucking serious?!

"Just for fun, we built a font that includes Patricia's symbols, so 
you can use them in any size or combination in your Finale files. We 
even put them into a Finale file modeled after Patricia's original" 
(4 nov on finale blog)
http://www.finalemusic.com/blog/articulations-wish-use

well... not sure what to say here, other than "Thanks, [Finale], for 
reminding all of us that there's room for humor in music notation!"

-- 

neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html

shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
[FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise

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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[David H. Bailey]

On 12/8/2016 8:10 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
[snip]> Though I've seen it done, alternating notations of 4/4 and 3/2 
while keeping
> the quarter-note pulse the same never made sense to me. I would be expecting
> the conductor to switch to /2 pulses.
>
[snip]

That's how I conduct that sort of passage -- 4 quarter-note beats 
indicated for the 4/4, then 3 half-note beats indicated in the 3/2 
measures, each of which is twice as slow as the quarter note beats of 
the 4/4 passage. Thus the speed of the quarter note is maintained and 
the emphasis as implied by the meter is indicated, putting the stress on 
1, 3, 5 in the 3/2 sections as the original poster intends.


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Steve Parker]

I think a composer should be able to do whatever they like. But it's not a 
convention that is outliving its usefulness, it is rather a useful distinction 
that is being contracted. 
I can happily conduct 6 beats in 3/2 to keep the pulse the same and I've never 
met anyone who would suddenly double the tempo of the crotchets just because 
they've seen 3/2. 
In terms of stress, subtleties matter. 
S.w.w. 3/2
S.w.S. 4/4+2/4
S.S.w. 2/4+4/4
Stress is, after all, a major reason for time signatures existing..

Steve P. 

> On 8 Dec 2016, at 13:15, Christopher Smith  
> wrote:
> 
> [I’ve trimmed the previous discussion]
> 
> I just conducted a piece for concert band by Samuel R. Hazo called 
> “Arabesque” where there is a single measure of 6/4 indicated to be conducted 
> 2+2+2 in a context of 4/4. I think this was the right decision, as 4/4 + 2/4 
> would have implied a stronger accent on the 2/4 bar than was on the 3 of the 
> 4/4 bar. It was a complex measure, too, and having me give a big downbeat in 
> the middle of that complex figure would have sent a message that wasn’t 
> implied in the music.
> 
> I wouldn’t have liked three bars of 2/4 either, in a context of 4/4, as that 
> would have been really weird.
> 
> I think that old convention of 6 being always compound time is relaxed now. 
> Other conventions that lived out their usefulness have been retired, too, so 
> I’m pretty okay with that.
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2016, at 4:42 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
>> 
>> My tuppence:
>> 
>> I see both and if you have time to explain you could use either. 
>> But.. if I was writing for a sight read or studio session (or any classical 
>> players) I would write it the way it would be conducted. 
>> If I wrote 6/4 and then conducted three accents in the bar, it would lead to 
>> unnecessary questions. 
>> Can you give an example of where a combination of 4/4 and 2/4 wouldn't solve 
>> it, if you require the denominator to stay a 4? 
>> All I can think is something like a 5 over the 6 counts, but then it would 
>> be fine to treat the 3 accents as hemiola over 6 anyway. 
>> 
>> Steve P. 
> 
> 
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[Finale] Change verse number

[Robert Patterson]

I often use verse numbers to keep text separate for different sections of a
piece. For example, in a song cycle the text for each song would be in a
different verse.

I have discovered that "score merger" merges all the text for different
files into the same verse numbers, which means verse one ends up crammed
with all the text.

To avoid this, I would like to move lyrics from one verse number to another
before merging. Does anyone know a simple, non-destructive method? It would
also need to preserve staff- and system-level baseline edits.
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Christopher Smith]

[I’ve trimmed the previous discussion]

I just conducted a piece for concert band by Samuel R. Hazo called “Arabesque” 
where there is a single measure of 6/4 indicated to be conducted 2+2+2 in a 
context of 4/4. I think this was the right decision, as 4/4 + 2/4 would have 
implied a stronger accent on the 2/4 bar than was on the 3 of the 4/4 bar. It 
was a complex measure, too, and having me give a big downbeat in the middle of 
that complex figure would have sent a message that wasn’t implied in the music.

I wouldn’t have liked three bars of 2/4 either, in a context of 4/4, as that 
would have been really weird.

I think that old convention of 6 being always compound time is relaxed now. 
Other conventions that lived out their usefulness have been retired, too, so 
I’m pretty okay with that.

Christopher



> On Dec 8, 2016, at 4:42 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
> My tuppence:
> 
> I see both and if you have time to explain you could use either. 
> But.. if I was writing for a sight read or studio session (or any classical 
> players) I would write it the way it would be conducted. 
> If I wrote 6/4 and then conducted three accents in the bar, it would lead to 
> unnecessary questions. 
> Can you give an example of where a combination of 4/4 and 2/4 wouldn't solve 
> it, if you require the denominator to stay a 4? 
> All I can think is something like a 5 over the 6 counts, but then it would be 
> fine to treat the 3 accents as hemiola over 6 anyway. 
> 
> Steve P. 


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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Thu, December 8, 2016 6:00 am, David H. Bailey wrote:
> But putting
> aside those of us on this list, how would a composer indicate in a
> printed score, without using accent marks which would likely produce
> more emphasis than desired, that with a 6/4 meter the emphasis should be
> 1, 3, 5 so that a performer far removed from this discussion or removed
> even from this time (for example finding the score 50 years from now and
> choosing to perform it) would understand how the music should sound?

I wonder how applicable this pulse division is today? If bar demarcations are
moving regularly among 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc., then the expectation of 6/4 as
2/q• or 6/8 as 2/e• vanishes, doesn't it?

If the score is a little more old school and only using /4 divisions, then
maybe the confusion is present, and the q=q note is worth noting.

Though I've seen it done, alternating notations of 4/4 and 3/2 while keeping
the quarter-note pulse the same never made sense to me. I would be expecting
the conductor to switch to /2 pulses.

I think the /8 triple divisions (3, 6, 9, 12 and 15) have always been a
special case.

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Ryszard Pusz]

An interesting point, which shows more than anything else how imprecise music 
notation is in conveying a composer's intentions.

Accents could be interpreted with too strong an emphasis on the 1, 3 and 5, 
phrase marks could lead to a greater than wanted disconnect between 2-3, 4-5, 
6-1. Using 2/4 could overcome these difficulties, maybe.

Or we accept that any language opens itself to a very broad band of 
understanding and interpretation.


On 08/12/2016, at 9:30 PM, David H. Bailey wrote:

> how would a composer indicate in a 
> printed score, without using accent marks which would likely produce 
> more emphasis than desired, that with a 6/4 meter the emphasis should be 
> 1, 3, 5 so that a performer far removed from this discussion or removed 
> even from this time (for example finding the score 50 years from now and 
> choosing to perform it) would understand how the music should sound?

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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Steve Parker]

Agree with David entirely. 
The distinction is a useful and longstanding one. 
I don't see what is gained by blurring it. 

Steve P. 

> On 8 Dec 2016, at 11:00, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
>> On 12/8/2016 12:36 AM, Giovanni Andreani wrote:
>> I agree with Patrick, the denominator suggests the pulse's value.
>> 
> 
> If that's true, then why is 6/8 so often played as 2/dotted-quarter 
> instead of clearly indicating each 8th note?  That seems to be the 
> majority of the time.
> 
> And the original question wasn't about which is less likely to cause 
> confusion in rehearsal (I find that most of the time such confusion is 
> caused by people who want to show off their music theory "skills" rather 
> than actual confusion by people who truly don't understand how the music 
> is supposed to sound).
> 
> The original question was how *best* to show that the emphasis in the 
> measure(s) in question should be on 1, 3, and 5 instead of 1 and 4.
> 
> I still don't understand how using a meter that is most widely 
> understood to be compound-triple meter (6 is usually broken up into 2 
> groups of 3) would indicate that.
> 
> Keeping the quarter note pulse going at the same rate shouldn't be a 
> problem for any composer to explain (the use of q = q should take care 
> of that) but how would a composer indicate that the emphasis should be 
> on 1, 3, 5 while using a meter that many people interpret as havint the 
> emphasis on 1 and 4?
> 
> Those of us on this list who have participated in this discussion would 
> have no problem since the way the question was asked originally lets us 
> know how the 6/4 or 3/2 measures should be interpreted.  But putting 
> aside those of us on this list, how would a composer indicate in a 
> printed score, without using accent marks which would likely produce 
> more emphasis than desired, that with a 6/4 meter the emphasis should be 
> 1, 3, 5 so that a performer far removed from this discussion or removed 
> even from this time (for example finding the score 50 years from now and 
> choosing to perform it) would understand how the music should sound?
> 
> -- 
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[SN jef chippewa]

they would read the finale list archives, no? :P

>how would a composer indicate in a printed score, without using 
>accent marks which would likely produce more emphasis than desired, 
>that with a 6/4 meter the emphasis should be 1, 3, 5 so that a 
>performer far removed from this discussion or removed even from this 
>time (for example finding the score 50 years from now and choosing 
>to perform it) would understand how the music should sound?

-- 

neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html

shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
[FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise

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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[David H. Bailey]

On 12/8/2016 12:36 AM, Giovanni Andreani wrote:
> I agree with Patrick, the denominator suggests the pulse's value.
>

If that's true, then why is 6/8 so often played as 2/dotted-quarter 
instead of clearly indicating each 8th note?  That seems to be the 
majority of the time.

And the original question wasn't about which is less likely to cause 
confusion in rehearsal (I find that most of the time such confusion is 
caused by people who want to show off their music theory "skills" rather 
than actual confusion by people who truly don't understand how the music 
is supposed to sound).

The original question was how *best* to show that the emphasis in the 
measure(s) in question should be on 1, 3, and 5 instead of 1 and 4.

I still don't understand how using a meter that is most widely 
understood to be compound-triple meter (6 is usually broken up into 2 
groups of 3) would indicate that.

Keeping the quarter note pulse going at the same rate shouldn't be a 
problem for any composer to explain (the use of q = q should take care 
of that) but how would a composer indicate that the emphasis should be 
on 1, 3, 5 while using a meter that many people interpret as havint the 
emphasis on 1 and 4?

Those of us on this list who have participated in this discussion would 
have no problem since the way the question was asked originally lets us 
know how the 6/4 or 3/2 measures should be interpreted.  But putting 
aside those of us on this list, how would a composer indicate in a 
printed score, without using accent marks which would likely produce 
more emphasis than desired, that with a 6/4 meter the emphasis should be 
1, 3, 5 so that a performer far removed from this discussion or removed 
even from this time (for example finding the score 50 years from now and 
choosing to perform it) would understand how the music should sound?

-- 
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Steve Parker]

My tuppence:

I see both and if you have time to explain you could use either. 
But.. if I was writing for a sight read or studio session (or any classical 
players) I would write it the way it would be conducted. 
If I wrote 6/4 and then conducted three accents in the bar, it would lead to 
unnecessary questions. 
Can you give an example of where a combination of 4/4 and 2/4 wouldn't solve 
it, if you require the denominator to stay a 4? 
All I can think is something like a 5 over the 6 counts, but then it would be 
fine to treat the 3 accents as hemiola over 6 anyway. 

Steve P. 

> On 8 Dec 2016, at 05:36, Giovanni Andreani  wrote:
> 
> I agree with Patrick, the denominator suggests the pulse's value.
> 
> Giovanni Andreani
> 
>> On 7 Dec 2016, at 23:52, Patrick Sheehan  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 6/4.   Don't change the denominators.  Keep the denominator consistent as
>> the pulse stays consistent.
>> 
>> Patrick J. M. Sheehan
>> 
>> P. S. Music
>> 
>> patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Lee Dengler [mailto:leedeng...@comcast.net] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 1:10 PM
>> To: finale@shsu.edu
>> Subject: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4
>> 
>> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
>> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
>> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
>> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
>> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
>> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
>> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
>> 
>> Lee Dengler
>> 
>> leedeng...@comcast.net  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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