Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
COMPLETELY disagree. PUT the dots for all staccato notes and NEVER use the cresc, decresc...they are always easily missed / immediately forgotten. Hairpins never fail. Patrick J. M. Sheehan P. S. Music patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Christopher Smith [mailto:christopher.sm...@videotron.ca] Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 1:28 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th In my experience, when there is a way to indicate something with text or with music notation, music notation wins every time. Musicians for some reason I don't quite understand have more trouble understanding cresc. than they do understanding a hairpin, for example. Dots over the notes WILL be played short 100% of the time, whereas the indication stacc. may or may not be correctly executed on sight reading. For that reason alone, i would choose a musical notation over a text indication. Christopher On Sun Mar 22, at SundayMar 22 12:00 PM, timothy price wrote: Just finished reading Score Rehearsal Preparation by Gary Stith in which he remarks about how composers might simply use text to clarify any possible ambiguity in the score. He invites text notes so that there is no time wasted in discussion of the intent of the score. .. simply tell us what you intended. This can be a few words on the staff of instrument notation, or at the end of the score in a section of issues about the score and how to play it. Seems good to me. tim On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Why not just say non portato and leave it at that ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
On 3/23/2015 5:38 PM, Steve Parker wrote: I don’t agree that hairpins and cresc. are always interchangable. In some styles of music a hairpin will take you up or down by one dynamic marking, whereas ‘cresc.’ or ‘dim.’ can be used to move smoothly from any mark to any other. This allows distinctions that get messy if the two are collated, for example pp ff when what you require is pp p crescendo, then immediately f. [snip] I've never heard or been taught that use of the hairpin where it only takes you up a single dynamic level if there's nothing indicated. What styles of music make such use of hairpins? Can you point to some authority which supports that? I've always been taught and found that if a composer wants a hairpin to go up to a specific dynamic then it's wisest for that composer to indicate specifically what is wanted. So if the composer wants ppp then that's what needs to be printed. Otherwise the hairpin is as open to individual interpretation as much as cresc. or dim. is. Merely giving pp with no indication is as likely to yield an mp or an mf or even an f if nothing is indicated. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
Hi David, I’m not saying it’s universal. It seems a general understanding in the UK brass band world, but I’ve come across the idea elsewhere. My childhood brass teacher initially taught it to me (he was a composition PhD, fwiw..). I know of no authority for it. My example was pathological and should obviously be specified without risk of misinterpretation. I would feel safe writing p in any situation and expect it to swell to mp and not mf or ff. Steve P. On 23 Mar 2015, at 21:52, David H. Bailey dhbaile...@comcast.net wrote: On 3/23/2015 5:38 PM, Steve Parker wrote: I don’t agree that hairpins and cresc. are always interchangable. In some styles of music a hairpin will take you up or down by one dynamic marking, whereas ‘cresc.’ or ‘dim.’ can be used to move smoothly from any mark to any other. This allows distinctions that get messy if the two are collated, for example pp ff when what you require is pp p crescendo, then immediately f. [snip] I've never heard or been taught that use of the hairpin where it only takes you up a single dynamic level if there's nothing indicated. What styles of music make such use of hairpins? Can you point to some authority which supports that? I've always been taught and found that if a composer wants a hairpin to go up to a specific dynamic then it's wisest for that composer to indicate specifically what is wanted. So if the composer wants ppp then that's what needs to be printed. Otherwise the hairpin is as open to individual interpretation as much as cresc. or dim. is. Merely giving pp with no indication is as likely to yield an mp or an mf or even an f if nothing is indicated. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
I don’t agree that hairpins and cresc. are always interchangable. In some styles of music a hairpin will take you up or down by one dynamic marking, whereas ‘cresc.’ or ‘dim.’ can be used to move smoothly from any mark to any other. This allows distinctions that get messy if the two are collated, for example pp ff when what you require is pp p crescendo, then immediately f. Steve P. On 23 Mar 2015, at 20:55, Patrick Sheehan patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com wrote: COMPLETELY disagree. PUT the dots for all staccato notes and NEVER use the cresc, decresc...they are always easily missed / immediately forgotten. Hairpins never fail. Patrick J. M. Sheehan P. S. Music patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Christopher Smith [mailto:christopher.sm...@videotron.ca] Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 1:28 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th In my experience, when there is a way to indicate something with text or with music notation, music notation wins every time. Musicians for some reason I don't quite understand have more trouble understanding cresc. than they do understanding a hairpin, for example. Dots over the notes WILL be played short 100% of the time, whereas the indication stacc. may or may not be correctly executed on sight reading. For that reason alone, i would choose a musical notation over a text indication. Christopher On Sun Mar 22, at SundayMar 22 12:00 PM, timothy price wrote: Just finished reading Score Rehearsal Preparation by Gary Stith in which he remarks about how composers might simply use text to clarify any possible ambiguity in the score. He invites text notes so that there is no time wasted in discussion of the intent of the score. .. simply tell us what you intended. This can be a few words on the staff of instrument notation, or at the end of the score in a section of issues about the score and how to play it. Seems good to me. tim On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Why not just say non portato and leave it at that ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
Thanks to everyone for some great responses to my question. I used JW Rhythm Copy (to change each 8th-8th pair to 8th-16th) and it copied the rhythms correctly. But I noticed that it also erased the slurs in the target measure. (It also erased the staccato marks, but I didn't want those anyway.) Is this correct behavior or am I overlooking something? I could use Robert Patterson's Mass Copy to copy and paste only the slurs, but that will add an additional step to the process. Paul Hayden Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:00 PM, finale-requ...@shsu.edu wrote: Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 08:53:53 -0400 From: Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca Subject: Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th To: finale@shsu.edu Message-ID: d27fcfe6-d190-4895-80c9-88ba6de0d...@videotron.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jari Williamsson's JW Rhythm Copy will change giant swaths of notes to another rhythm. You may have to manually delete the articulations, but that's one very quick operation. Enter one measure as you wish, then select it with the Selection Tool, invoke JW Rhythm Copy - SET SOURCE (nothing will appear to happen), then select the passage you want it copied to and invoke JW Rhythm Copy - COPY and the rhythm will copy over to every measure. I use it a lot (thanks, Jari!) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
Just finished reading Score Rehearsal Preparation by Gary Stith in which he remarks about how composers might simply use text to clarify any possible ambiguity in the score. He invites text notes so that there is no time wasted in discussion of the intent of the score. .. simply tell us what you intended. This can be a few words on the staff of instrument notation, or at the end of the score in a section of issues about the score and how to play it. Seems good to me. tim On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Why not just say non portato and leave it at that ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
Hi Robert, Well, no problem unless you object to filling out a beat with rests when a staccato mark would do just as well, which many engravers and editors do. Eighth+sixteenth+sixteenth rest in all the parts just seems needlessly fussy and cluttered to me, and while I accept that this notation might be clearer for string players, I see no advantage to doing it this way for the rest of the orchestra. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Mar 22, 2015, at 1:25 AM, Robert Patterson rob...@robertgpatterson.com wrote: One quite frequently sees different articulation notations in string and wind parts, even when the desired sound is the same. I've noticed this a lot in the scores of Ravel in particular. But if you count different slurring, the practice is ubiquitous. That said, there is no reason to use a different notation here. If all the parts use 8th slurred to 16th there will be no problem. On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 1:38 PM, GERALD BERG gj.b...@rogers.com wrote: Why not just say non portato and leave it at that? Seems a waste of perfectly legible notation. What if the brass have the same figure for example? 2 different notations for the same figure on the same page? That is confusing! GJB From: Darcy James Argue djar...@icloud.com To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th Yes, that solution seems infinitely preferable to filling out all the beats with rests. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Mar 20, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Raymond Horton horton.raym...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net wrote: I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) That works! Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
One change that might make it seem less like a bowing is to put the staccato mark over the stem instead of under the note. This works better for upstem than downstem. Personally, I don't understand the resistance to using 16ths, but ymmv. If the OP wants to switch to using 16ths, the JW Ryhthm Copy can facilitate the change of rhythm fairly simply. (It may take a few passes, because the plugin is a bit picky.) And my Mass Copy plugin can remove the staccato dots in one click. On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Darcy James Argue djar...@icloud.com wrote: Hi Robert, Well, no problem unless you object to filling out a beat with rests when a staccato mark would do just as well, which many engravers and editors do. Eighth+sixteenth+sixteenth rest in all the parts just seems needlessly fussy and cluttered to me, and while I accept that this notation might be clearer for string players, I see no advantage to doing it this way for the rest of the orchestra. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Mar 22, 2015, at 1:25 AM, Robert Patterson rob...@robertgpatterson.com wrote: One quite frequently sees different articulation notations in string and wind parts, even when the desired sound is the same. I've noticed this a lot in the scores of Ravel in particular. But if you count different slurring, the practice is ubiquitous. That said, there is no reason to use a different notation here. If all the parts use 8th slurred to 16th there will be no problem. On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 1:38 PM, GERALD BERG gj.b...@rogers.com wrote: Why not just say non portato and leave it at that? Seems a waste of perfectly legible notation. What if the brass have the same figure for example? 2 different notations for the same figure on the same page? That is confusing! GJB From: Darcy James Argue djar...@icloud.com To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th Yes, that solution seems infinitely preferable to filling out all the beats with rests. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Mar 20, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Raymond Horton horton.raym...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net wrote: I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) That works! Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
It is my understanding in reading his book, that it is not a question of whether or not to use proper notation, it is a question of clarifying the notation. From the controversy here I would say a text explanation is in order; no matter what notation might be chosen... there are plenty of informed opinions and that is confusing, a waste of time, for any conductor when a score is being performed. Notate to the best of your knowledge, and make text clarification wherever. His point is to be overly thorough and do use text as a secondary source of instruction. tim On Mar 22, 2015, at 2:28 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: In my experience, when there is a way to indicate something with text or with music notation, music notation wins every time. Musicians for some reason I don't quite understand have more trouble understanding cresc. than they do understanding a hairpin, for example. Dots over the notes WILL be played short 100% of the time, whereas the indication stacc. may or may not be correctly executed on sight reading. For that reason alone, i would choose a musical notation over a text indication. Christopher On Sun Mar 22, at SundayMar 22 12:00 PM, timothy price wrote: Just finished reading Score Rehearsal Preparation by Gary Stith in which he remarks about how composers might simply use text to clarify any possible ambiguity in the score. He invites text notes so that there is no time wasted in discussion of the intent of the score. .. simply tell us what you intended. This can be a few words on the staff of instrument notation, or at the end of the score in a section of issues about the score and how to play it. Seems good to me. tim On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Why not just say non portato and leave it at that ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
In my experience, when there is a way to indicate something with text or with music notation, music notation wins every time. Musicians for some reason I don't quite understand have more trouble understanding cresc. than they do understanding a hairpin, for example. Dots over the notes WILL be played short 100% of the time, whereas the indication stacc. may or may not be correctly executed on sight reading. For that reason alone, i would choose a musical notation over a text indication. Christopher On Sun Mar 22, at SundayMar 22 12:00 PM, timothy price wrote: Just finished reading Score Rehearsal Preparation by Gary Stith in which he remarks about how composers might simply use text to clarify any possible ambiguity in the score. He invites text notes so that there is no time wasted in discussion of the intent of the score. .. simply tell us what you intended. This can be a few words on the staff of instrument notation, or at the end of the score in a section of issues about the score and how to play it. Seems good to me. tim On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Why not just say non portato and leave it at that ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
It does seem to remove the slurs, but adding them back should be a snap with Mass Copy unless you've done individual edits on them. Even then, I think you could make a copy of your file before you run the JW plugin, then copy the slurs from the copy back to the original after running the JW plugin (using Mass Copy). On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Paul Hayden phayden...@cox.net wrote: Thanks to everyone for some great responses to my question. I used JW Rhythm Copy (to change each 8th-8th pair to 8th-16th) and it copied the rhythms correctly. But I noticed that it also erased the slurs in the target measure. (It also erased the staccato marks, but I didn't want those anyway.) Is this correct behavior or am I overlooking something? I could use Robert Patterson's Mass Copy to copy and paste only the slurs, but that will add an additional step to the process. Paul Hayden Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com On Mar 21, 2015, at 12:00 PM, finale-requ...@shsu.edu wrote: Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 08:53:53 -0400 From: Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca Subject: Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th To: finale@shsu.edu Message-ID: d27fcfe6-d190-4895-80c9-88ba6de0d...@videotron.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jari Williamsson's JW Rhythm Copy will change giant swaths of notes to another rhythm. You may have to manually delete the articulations, but that's one very quick operation. Enter one measure as you wish, then select it with the Selection Tool, invoke JW Rhythm Copy - SET SOURCE (nothing will appear to happen), then select the passage you want it copied to and invoke JW Rhythm Copy - COPY and the rhythm will copy over to every measure. I use it a lot (thanks, Jari!) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
On 3/20/2015 6:25 PM, Paul Hayden wrote: I have a section with many pairs of eighth notes, each pair slurred with a staccato note on the second eighth. A string player recommended that I change each pair to an eighth slurred to a sixteenth, to make clear that no change of bow is desired on the second eighth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64656173/slurred%208ths.pdf 1. Do you think that this _would_ be clearer regarding the bowing? (Of course, I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) 2. If I do change every pair, is there a plug-in that might be able to assist me in changing each pair of eighths to an eighth slurred into a sixteenth? Thanks so much for any advice on this. As you can see from all the replies you've received, it won't matter how it's marked, people will misinterpret what you want. Personally I think the original way you wrote it is perfectly clear -- anybody who wants to make the second 8th portato can do so but since that the first note should not be portato the violinists should slur to the second note, cut the second note short and then leave the appropriate space before the following note is played. I agree with the comment that you should not mark the down-bow or up-bow unless this piece is for a student orchestra and you've had a violin teacher bow the entire piece to be sure the bowings will make some sense. The suggestion of the violinist to change the staccato 8th into a 16th with a 16th rest will probably be the most clear to everybody so even though it's a bother you should do that to get the sound you want without whomever is performing it wasting valuable rehearsal time debating what the composer actually meant. I don't know of any plug-in to make that change, though, so I think you'll need to enter all those changes individually. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
Jari Williamsson's JW Rhythm Copy will change giant swaths of notes to another rhythm. You may have to manually delete the articulations, but that's one very quick operation. Enter one measure as you wish, then select it with the Selection Tool, invoke JW Rhythm Copy - SET SOURCE (nothing will appear to happen), then select the passage you want it copied to and invoke JW Rhythm Copy - COPY and the rhythm will copy over to every measure. I use it a lot (thanks, Jari!) Christopher On Sat Mar 21, at SaturdayMar 21 7:09 AM, David H. Bailey wrote: On 3/20/2015 6:25 PM, Paul Hayden wrote: I have a section with many pairs of eighth notes, each pair slurred with a staccato note on the second eighth. A string player recommended that I change each pair to an eighth slurred to a sixteenth, to make clear that no change of bow is desired on the second eighth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64656173/slurred%208ths.pdf 1. Do you think that this _would_ be clearer regarding the bowing? (Of course, I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) 2. If I do change every pair, is there a plug-in that might be able to assist me in changing each pair of eighths to an eighth slurred into a sixteenth? Thanks so much for any advice on this. As you can see from all the replies you've received, it won't matter how it's marked, people will misinterpret what you want. Personally I think the original way you wrote it is perfectly clear -- anybody who wants to make the second 8th portato can do so but since that the first note should not be portato the violinists should slur to the second note, cut the second note short and then leave the appropriate space before the following note is played. I agree with the comment that you should not mark the down-bow or up-bow unless this piece is for a student orchestra and you've had a violin teacher bow the entire piece to be sure the bowings will make some sense. The suggestion of the violinist to change the staccato 8th into a 16th with a 16th rest will probably be the most clear to everybody so even though it's a bother you should do that to get the sound you want without whomever is performing it wasting valuable rehearsal time debating what the composer actually meant. I don't know of any plug-in to make that change, though, so I think you'll need to enter all those changes individually. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
Deleting the the articulation marks is trivial with my Mass Copy plugin: 1. Select the region where you want the articulations deleted. 2. Open the plugin, select Ariticulations and hit Clear. On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 7:53 AM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: Jari Williamsson's JW Rhythm Copy will change giant swaths of notes to another rhythm. You may have to manually delete the articulations, but that's one very quick operation. Enter one measure as you wish, then select it with the Selection Tool, invoke JW Rhythm Copy - SET SOURCE (nothing will appear to happen), then select the passage you want it copied to and invoke JW Rhythm Copy - COPY and the rhythm will copy over to every measure. I use it a lot (thanks, Jari!) Christopher On Sat Mar 21, at SaturdayMar 21 7:09 AM, David H. Bailey wrote: On 3/20/2015 6:25 PM, Paul Hayden wrote: I have a section with many pairs of eighth notes, each pair slurred with a staccato note on the second eighth. A string player recommended that I change each pair to an eighth slurred to a sixteenth, to make clear that no change of bow is desired on the second eighth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64656173/slurred%208ths.pdf 1. Do you think that this _would_ be clearer regarding the bowing? (Of course, I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) 2. If I do change every pair, is there a plug-in that might be able to assist me in changing each pair of eighths to an eighth slurred into a sixteenth? Thanks so much for any advice on this. As you can see from all the replies you've received, it won't matter how it's marked, people will misinterpret what you want. Personally I think the original way you wrote it is perfectly clear -- anybody who wants to make the second 8th portato can do so but since that the first note should not be portato the violinists should slur to the second note, cut the second note short and then leave the appropriate space before the following note is played. I agree with the comment that you should not mark the down-bow or up-bow unless this piece is for a student orchestra and you've had a violin teacher bow the entire piece to be sure the bowings will make some sense. The suggestion of the violinist to change the staccato 8th into a 16th with a 16th rest will probably be the most clear to everybody so even though it's a bother you should do that to get the sound you want without whomever is performing it wasting valuable rehearsal time debating what the composer actually meant. I don't know of any plug-in to make that change, though, so I think you'll need to enter all those changes individually. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
Why not just say non portato and leave it at that? Seems a waste of perfectly legible notation. What if the brass have the same figure for example? 2 different notations for the same figure on the same page? That is confusing! GJB From: Darcy James Argue djar...@icloud.com To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th Yes, that solution seems infinitely preferable to filling out all the beats with rests. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Mar 20, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Raymond Horton horton.raym...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net wrote: I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) That works! Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
One quite frequently sees different articulation notations in string and wind parts, even when the desired sound is the same. I've noticed this a lot in the scores of Ravel in particular. But if you count different slurring, the practice is ubiquitous. That said, there is no reason to use a different notation here. If all the parts use 8th slurred to 16th there will be no problem. On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 1:38 PM, GERALD BERG gj.b...@rogers.com wrote: Why not just say non portato and leave it at that? Seems a waste of perfectly legible notation. What if the brass have the same figure for example? 2 different notations for the same figure on the same page? That is confusing! GJB From: Darcy James Argue djar...@icloud.com To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th Yes, that solution seems infinitely preferable to filling out all the beats with rests. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Mar 20, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Raymond Horton horton.raym...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net wrote: I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) That works! Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
Huh? Since when is a slur not a slur? I think your notation should be fine as it is - and less fussy than the suggested new version. Perfectly clear in my mind. Chuck On Mar 20, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Paul Hayden phayden...@cox.net wrote: I have a section with many pairs of eighth notes, each pair slurred with a staccato note on the second eighth. A string player recommended that I change each pair to an eighth slurred to a sixteenth, to make clear that no change of bow is desired on the second eighth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64656173/slurred%208ths.pdf 1. Do you think that this _would_ be clearer regarding the bowing? (Of course, I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) 2. If I do change every pair, is there a plug-in that might be able to assist me in changing each pair of eighths to an eighth slurred into a sixteenth? Thanks so much for any advice on this. Paul Hayden Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net mailto:cisra...@comcast.net (360) 201-3434 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland Or 97202 chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net wrote: I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) That works! Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
The version with the staccato dot could be mistaken for meaning portato bowing. I think the version with 16ths is clearer. On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 6:17 PM, Robert Patterson arsnovat...@gmail.com wrote: The version with a staccato dot could be mistaken for meaning a specific kind of bowing that is apparently not desired. I think the version with 16ths is clearer. Sent from my iPad On Mar 20, 2015, at 6:11 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net wrote: Huh? Since when is a slur not a slur? I think your notation should be fine as it is - and less fussy than the suggested new version. Perfectly clear in my mind. Chuck On Mar 20, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Paul Hayden phayden...@cox.net wrote: I have a section with many pairs of eighth notes, each pair slurred with a staccato note on the second eighth. A string player recommended that I change each pair to an eighth slurred to a sixteenth, to make clear that no change of bow is desired on the second eighth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64656173/slurred%208ths.pdf 1. Do you think that this _would_ be clearer regarding the bowing? (Of course, I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) 2. If I do change every pair, is there a plug-in that might be able to assist me in changing each pair of eighths to an eighth slurred into a sixteenth? Thanks so much for any advice on this. Paul Hayden Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net mailto:cisra...@comcast.net (360) 201-3434 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland Or 97202 chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
On second thought, Robert is correct. How about a measure or two with the 16th, then revert to the original with a cont. sim.? On Mar 20, 2015 11:45 PM, Robert Patterson rob...@robertgpatterson.com wrote: I hate to be a nay-sayer, but I agree with the string player. Even placing up-bow and down-bow markings doesn't clarify the notation, because the whole point of portato is that the bow doesn't change direction. Plus, I've found my guesses about the most convenient up- or down- bowings of a given passage are often wrong, so I try to avoid being prescriptive outside of special effects. The clearest notation in this case is an eighth slurred to a sixteenth. You can probably get by with the eighths by adding a comment like clip staccato notes. On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:25 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@icloud.com wrote: Yes, that solution seems infinitely preferable to filling out all the beats with rests. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Mar 20, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Raymond Horton horton.raym...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net wrote: I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) That works! Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
Yes, that solution seems infinitely preferable to filling out all the beats with rests. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Mar 20, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Raymond Horton horton.raym...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net wrote: I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) That works! Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
I hate to be a nay-sayer, but I agree with the string player. Even placing up-bow and down-bow markings doesn't clarify the notation, because the whole point of portato is that the bow doesn't change direction. Plus, I've found my guesses about the most convenient up- or down- bowings of a given passage are often wrong, so I try to avoid being prescriptive outside of special effects. The clearest notation in this case is an eighth slurred to a sixteenth. You can probably get by with the eighths by adding a comment like clip staccato notes. On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:25 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@icloud.com wrote: Yes, that solution seems infinitely preferable to filling out all the beats with rests. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On Mar 20, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Raymond Horton horton.raym...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.net wrote: I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) That works! Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
[Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
I have a section with many pairs of eighth notes, each pair slurred with a staccato note on the second eighth. A string player recommended that I change each pair to an eighth slurred to a sixteenth, to make clear that no change of bow is desired on the second eighth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64656173/slurred%208ths.pdf 1. Do you think that this _would_ be clearer regarding the bowing? (Of course, I guess I could just show a down-bow on the first pair and an up-bow on the second pair.) 2. If I do change every pair, is there a plug-in that might be able to assist me in changing each pair of eighths to an eighth slurred into a sixteenth? Thanks so much for any advice on this. Paul Hayden Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
