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-Original Message-
From: Louis H Kauffman
Sender: Fis
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 00:18:08
To: fis
Cc: Søren Brier
Subject: [Fis] _ Re: _ DISCUSSION SESSION
Thanks Bob, in a while Louis himself will send his kickoff text and
presentation file (not me!) --Pedro
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-Original Message-
From: Bob Logan
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 12:50:25
To: PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
Cc: fis
Subject: Re:
Dear Plamen and colleagues,
What you propose is an excellent initiative, besides the multidisciplinary
nature of that compilation may inspire a genuine dialog on today's sciences and
phenomenology.
As for Marcos' response, he is quite right (my hurried message was not very
accurate with some
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-Original Message-
From: 赵川
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 23:20:58
To:
Subject: Chuan's reply 2
Dear Pedro and Joseph,
This is the reply2. This file is very small. And please allow me use
picture. For pictures can save many w
Dear colleagues, this New Year Lecture is over. Our invitee will make his final
statements and ALL should abide by the courtesy "constraint" of not replying
further... Thanks Terry for all your informational work!
Best--Pedro
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-Ori
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-Original Message-
From: Jerry LR Chandler
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 10:37:32
To: Pedro C. Marijuan
Subject: FIS, Weekly posting frequency.
Pedro:
Just a small suggestion about the rules for posting to the FIS list serve.
Personall
Dear FIS colleagues,
A very interesting comment by Bob about "energy as a bookkeeping device"
in the other discussion track motivates these rough reflections.
Actually, within the "culture of mechanics" (following Frank Wilczek)
energy appears as the more reliable concept, beyond its cousins for
At 11:42 17/01/2008, you wrote:
Dear Pedro and Colleagues,
some progress has been made in the translation table between 3 times
1_of_4 in a sequence and 20 resp. 21 logical markers being matched to one
the other.
The next task appears to be to find out the iterations between introns and
extro
Dear FIS colleagues,
It is time to put a formal end to the ongoing "information and meaning"
session, and return to the freewheeling mode. Let us thank Bob for his
thoughtful Introduction and responses...
As usual, during these weeks, we will have the Xmas pause, and then will
wait for 2008
Dear Bob,
Many thanks for the info on your splendid book. Let me pen a couple of
brief aspects related to the publisher description:
At 03:27 27/11/2007, you wrote:
Building on his previous study, The Sixth Language (2000), and making use
of emer-gence theory, Logan seeks to explain how lang
Dear colleagues,
Thanks to John for the rigorous comments on info and entropy. Although the
theme has been passed over in several occasions, mopping up the conceptual
spill overs is always convenient.
However, one of the crucial aspects of biological information seems to be
the general decou
Dear FIS colleagues,
Adding to Bob's and Karl's on Shannonian info, I am still under the
influence of Seth Lloyd (one of the founders of quantum computation)
insights about inf physics. For him, the second law is but a statement
about information processing, how the underlying physical dynamic
Dear FIS colleagues,
Sorry that I could barely follow and participate in the recent exchanges
(bureaucratic work overload). I was very interested in all the exchanges,
particularly in the early stages of the discussion. Notwithstanding the
high quality of the postings maybe we have a natural p
Dear FIS colleagues,
Thanks to all the discussants for the ideas & comments. Something else than
meaning is at the stake in the current discussion. At fis, aren't we in a
delicate juncture? After more than 10 years of discontinuous activities,
but overall having cumulated a very respectable am
Dear colleagues,
What if meaning is equivalent to "zero"?
I mean, if we backtrack to the origins of zero, we find those obscure
philosophers related to Buddhism in India, many centuries ago (Brahmagupta,
600 ad). It was something difficult to grasp, rather bizarre, the fruit of
quite a long a
Dear colleagues,
Answering to a couple of Jerry's questions,
Under what circumstances can the speaker's meaning or the writer's meaning
be _exact_?
Is _meaning_ a momentary impulse with potential for settling into a local
minimum in the biochemical dynamic?
A previous point could be---wha
-- Forwarded message --
From: karl javorszky <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 25.09.2007 15:54
Subject: Re: [Fis] info & meaning
To: bob logan <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Pedro Marijuan
<<mailto:
Dear Bob and colleagues,
Thanks for the scholarly work. It was nice reading the vast landscape,
historical and otherwise, you have covered around that new biotic
interpretation of information as "Propagating Organization" or POE. Perhaps
in this list we have already arrived to a truce on Shann
Announcing the 12th FIS Discussion Session:
ON INFORMATION AND MEANING
"The Relativity of Information and Its Relationship to Materiality,
Meaning and Organization"
Chaired by:
Robert K. Logan
Professor Emeritus
Department of Physics
University of Toronto
Dear FIS colleagues,
Thanks to Bob for all his mindful contents. Given the many ideas to comment
in his draft, I will briefly refer to a couple of them just at the
beginning of the paper. First, on "concepts" as the basic stuff of human
language-communication. And second, on the notion of "inf
Dear FIS colleagues,
It was nice seeing these artistic oriented presentations (including Stan's!
--I sort of remember having read a few years ago an elegant poem of him on
entropy... am I right?). Hopefully, more people of the list will venture
into this humanistic arena these vacation weeks.
Dear Bob and colleagues,
Many thanks for your Introduction. It is an honor for FIS parties
exchanging with a pioneer in such a number of informational themes ---and a
colaborator of Marshall McLuhan. Though this author is not so fashionable
nowadays (at least in comparison with the enormous cu
Dear colleagues,
At 12:08 27/06/2007, you wrote:
Though I am interested in the logic and evolution of cooperation in
living systems in general, the special focus of my thesis is directed
towards human social systems and the role that technology plays in the
unfolding of cooperative action str
Dear FIS colleagues,
We have had a couple of self-introductions these two days, Robin and
Javier. It may be a good idea that other parties recently arrived into the
list follow this trend, and introduce themselves during these weeks of lull.
Actually I agree, but partially, in what Robin stat
Hello,
I'm Francisco Javier Mateos, Director of " Aleen S.L.", a company situated
in Barcelona (Spain) and dedicated to Knowledge Engineering.
I learnt about the FIS through releases on Internet and I consider
that the objective of the FIS , together with the research of an adequate
theory (scie
Dear FIS colleagues,
Thanks a lot for the responses. It is nice that we will have a good theme
to deal with during these months of lull (the planned sessions will start
around beginings of September)... Ted has made a very valiant presentation
on fundamental aspects of our strategy. Time will
Dear FIS colleagues,
About the approaches to the information concept commented by Karl, Loet,
John, and Stan, let me argue that some of them have a rather narrow
conceptual domain of applicability. In Karl's approach I have already
argued that his highly suggestive conflation of the sequential
Dear FIS colleagues,
During last five years we have had quite many discussion sessions in a row
(for the new parties arrived recently, there are a couple of web sites
where messages are systematically archived--see below). As suggested by
some discussants, having some long pause was needed --p
Dear FIS collegues,
It was not possible for Joe sending his concluding comments to the session
(at the time being he is involved in several trips and in general has been
caught in a real avalanche of work these months). So, we have talked during
this session, as usual, on a number of disconnec
Dear FIS colleagues,
An additional aspect of social complexity, not much focused in general, is
the group capability to transcend individual limitations. Collective
intelligence, collective mind, is what results from the ability of
individuals to influence and be influenced by others, allowing
Thanks, Stan and others.
Very briefly, I was thinking on the economy (together with most of social
structure) as the "arrows" or bonds that connect the "nodes" of
individuals. Take away the arrows, the bonds, and you are left with a mere
swarm of structureless, gregarious individuals. Change t
Dear colleagues,
As for the first track (planning vs. markets) I would try to plainly put
the informational problem in terms of "distinction on the adjacent" (Guy
has also argued in a similar vein). Social structures either in markets or
in central plans become facultative instances of network
Dear Igor and Stan,
Just a couple of pills to continue the e-conversation. Rather than an
outlandish theme, I consider this discussion of social complexity as
central to FIS agenda and --should be crucial-- to the new science of this
century. it is so obvious that our personal limitations and
Dear Igor and colleagues,
I have the impression that there is an agreement about the existence of
biological and sociocultural constraints that impact on our ability to
understand and manage socioeconomic complexity. These constraints are
organized hierarchically, as Stan puts it, {biological
Dear colleagues,
Maybe I should postpone these comments and have a careful reading of Bob's
paper, John's list of bionfo articles, and the many well-crafted arguments
exchanged these days---but as usual one is overwhelmed...
On the discussion track about complexity info limits (followed by Jo
Dear colleagues,
On the complexity limits of human societies, my impression is that in the
social application of our brain capabilities (evolved to confront a very
big "natural group" --it is interesting to check psychologist Robin Dunbar,
or neurobiologist Robert Allman, on how brain size esc
Dear Igor and colleagues,
Your question is fascinating, perhaps at the time being rather puzzling or
even un-answerable...
What are the complexity limits of societies? Our individual limits are
obvious ---the size of "natural bands" depended both on ecosystems and on
the number of people wit
Dear Joe and colleagues,
Thanks for the new angle. The problem on how to ascribe complexity looks
quite "complex" in itself... It connects with the aspect of
decomposability in parts / components of entities which surfaced last month
(when arguing on the "human factor"). For obscure reasons,
Dear FIS colleagues,
In Nature 444, 9 Nov. 2006, there is an experimental paper on "quantum
limits to heat flow" and also to electronic current. It is quite
interesting that the editorial comments by the Journal relate to maximum
information content and foundations of information physics (p. 1
Dear FIS colleagues,
A litle bit late, but best wishes for the New Year!
One of these days Joe will recap the exchanges we have had on social
complexity. In the interim, I have a couple of abstruse points somehow
related to the intrinsic / extrinsic theme.
First, that the notion of informati
Dear Loet and colleagues,
see interleavings:
At 20:49 19/12/2006, you wrote:
Dear Pedro:
1. You are changing the subject from "social and cultural complexity" to
"the nature of complexity".
Thus, our previous communications seem to be discardable as "irrelevant." ...
I don't expect anybody t
Dear colleagues,
After all these excellent postings (Joe's kickoff text has been really
inspiring), one does not know what direction looks more promising than the
other.
Initially, I do not find Stan, Guy and Loet's responses convincing enough.
Properly speaking about the social realm, the i
Dear FIS colleagues,
I disagree with the comments by Steven and Stan on the nature of
complexity. How can one substantiate and quantify social complexity if the
previous complexity within the society's individuals has not been solved?
At the time being, there is no accepted rigorous evaluation
Dear Joe and colleagues
After very interesting postings these days by Igor, Loet, Karl, etc., let
me re-elaborate the initial questions I made --getting them even worse.
First, about the unrecognized consequences directly stemming out from
"biological complexity" (I wrote awkwardly about a b
Dear Joe, and FIS colleagues
Given that I will be away for several days (trip--and not computer
availability), let me rush to make a few anticipated comments on ideas I
would like to rewrite in the future. First of all, it is an exciting,
scholarly piece you have prepared. Thanks!
Maybe I shou
Dear FIS colleagues,
Herewith some recommendations from the computer management of this Uni
about the recent spam problems:
DIRECT POSTING: messages should be posted "first hand" to the list (to:),
and not as a copy (cc:)
MEANINGFUL TITLES, better putting scientific terms (not funny items,
Announcing the 11th FIS Discussion Session:
INTRODUCING SOCIAL AND CULTURAL COMPLEXITY
Chaired by:
Joseph A. Tainter
Global Institute of Sustainability
and School of Human Evolution and Social Change,
Arizona State University,
Tempe, Arizona, USA
-
Th
Dear John and colleagues,
As usual I am having too short a time (will attempt to answer properly next
week, also to James and Jerry), but your reflections connecting with
mechanics and computability have initially reminded me a rather obscure
paper by Michel Conrad and Efim Liberman, where the
Dear FISers,
I was recently asked some short views summarizing the field of biological
computation. After several weeks delay, I finally penned a few lines. Maybe
someone in the list can find some interest in the very rough reflections below.
---
In my view, there is some
>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:04:13 -0500
>To: fis@listas.unizar.es
>From: "Stanley N. Salthe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Fis] Post-concluding remarks:Realism/anturealism: Laws of
> nature?
>
>Commenting upon Andrei's:
>>Of course, the main problem is as Soren Brier emphasized that we do no
Hi,
these days some of you are having difficulties to post in the list. Please,
be patient. We are receiving in this server lots and lots of spam (in my
own account around 200 each day) and I can do nothing with the computing
management about lowering the filters. Well, if your message is repe
Dear Andrei and FIS colleagues,
Your expression, days ago, about "information transformers" is very
suggestive in the sense that it highlights far better than other terms
(e.g., proposed by complexity theoreticians: "information gatherers" &
"information users") what happens, say, to an infor
Dear Andrei and colleagues,
Thanks a lot for your re-capping of the session. It is a very thoughtful
perspective on information from the quantum side. My only comments would
relate to your (partial) identification of models, reality, and
mathematics. It sounds too strong to my hears. We have c
Dear FISers,
We are going to resume activities in the list very soon. The chairs of the
quantum information session will publish their "concluding comments" during
next days --meaning, as usual, some extra rounds on the topic-- and then,
we will keep some extra weeks of unfocused exchanges --w
Dear FISers,
Following our tradition, the discussions in the list should be suspended
(or notably reduced) during the coming month. After these monthly
vacations, we will resume the regular exchanges in September 1st.
Have a nice time!
Pedro
___
f
Dear John and colleagues,
I would add a couple of motifs to your cogent reflections.
On causation, I do not quite see that the Aristotelian categories
adequately cover the "pristine" info causation we see for instance in
living beings-- as I have often argued they lack any stable form, always
Dear All,
The usual lack of thinking time, plus the more than usual accumulation of
small things to do, have precluded me of participating in these fascinating
exchanges. Let me make a few brief points:
-- The qbit versus the bit (central matter in Jonathan's recent
reflections): does the fo
At 18:41 21/06/2006, you wrote:
Pedro -- OK, I think I see your basic point. If so, then we do agree
because I have concluded (tentatively) that, in the context of Universal
disequibilibrium, the principle of least action can be explained by the
maximum entropy production principle [e.g., the fa
At 00:23 17/06/2006, you wrote:
I wonder if we might have some expansion of that last sentence?
STAN
>Dear Hans and colleagues,
>
>Thank you for the seminal insights. In my view, genuine informational
>entities (living beings, nervous systems, social entities, enterprises, the
>observing scie
Dear Hans and colleagues,
Thank you for the seminal insights. In my view, genuine informational
entities (living beings, nervous systems, social entities, enterprises, the
observing scientist, etc.) are involved in germane problems on how to
optimize their very limited resources concerning an
Dear John and colleagues,
Thanks for the rigorous philosophical directions to connect with. Getting
ahead with the speculation business, here there are a few related "pills"
that perhaps could be matched with aspects of the current discussion:
-- physical (and biological?) information: as a d
Dear colleagues,
let me add another aficionado naive speculation on the matters below :
We might regard every locus of space-time as having the capacity to
instantiate the whole laws of nature, in relation to any existential
perturbation by what we call matter, energy, etc. If there is an
"in
Dear FISers,
A question I have about entanglement is what this phenomenon can tell us on
the nature of physical law. The "physical" existentiality of physical laws
themselves looks intriguing ---where do they "seat"? And what coherence and
entanglement may tell about that? Some physicists have
Dear Andrei and Jonathan, and colleagues
As an outsider in the theme, let me make a couple of light observations.
First about the curious problem of very few Q. algorithms:
In quantum computing there were created a few quantum algorithms and
developed devices, "quantum pre-computers", with a
Dear FISers,
Let us hurry up with the latest comments on information ethics (including
the chairs' final comments if it is viable for them--and many thanks for
their chairing!!), as we are going to start at the beginning of
next week a very challenging session on Quantum Information. Let me
ackn
FIS Friends,
It is a pity, but the very interesting discussion on ethics is getting
closer to the end. At the beginning of next week, a new discussion on
QUANTUM INFORMATION should take place, chaired by Andrei
Khrennikov and Jonathan D.H. Smith.
As usual, the current session will be formally cl
Dear colleagues,
If ethics relates mostly to the quest for the "good" or for the "good
reasons" of our social behavior, apparently it can be treated as another
discipline --really? An initial complication is about the subject --good...
"to whom"? It maybe one's personal interests, or his/her f
Dear FIS colleagues,
The question recently raised by Luis, but also in a different way by Karl,
Stan and others, is a tough one. How do our formal "disciplinary"
approaches fare when confronting the "global" reality of social life? My
point is that most of knowledge impinging on social life ma
Dear Michael and colleagues,
Am afraid I cannot make such elegant a response to your comments as Stan
has done. Both the "integrity" of the individual and his/her
"contemplation" of the natural environment appear indeed as crucial factors
for the ethical standpoint. I do not see very clearly h
Dear Rafael, Jerry, and all
Perhaps another view of ethics (closer to Jerry's questions?) would revolve
around the tentative conciliation between the first person view and the
third person's. A recent fis session chaired by Stan and Koichiro dealt
with that very problem (addressed towards scie
Dear Rafael and colleagues,
Just a couple of points. First, about your paragraph "ethics as a
scientific discipline is viable at all times... " I tend to agree, but only
partially. Morals in the philosophical wide sense you take (as already
stated, I prefer to restrict them only to "human natu
Dear FIS colleagues,
I have the impression that a serious attempt to establish informational
foundations for ethics is not viable, at the time being. Although we can
produce discourses about different threads involved ---traditional
philosophic, evolutionary, postmodern, politico-economic, tec
FIS Friends,
A modest heap of ideas is accumulating on info ethics. I will comment on
some recent postings (Stan, Rafael, Michael...)
To Stan's simplifications on Global Capitalism, second law plus Darwinian
penchant, I would had another two: complexity growth and instinct of
"conformity with the
Dear All,
Should we keep discussing the Prolegomena on info & ethics or should we
jump into the concrete questions about the contemporary revolution of info
technologies? Apologies for being focused again in the former, hopefully it
will help to produce more interesting answers about the latte
Dear Rafael and colleages,
Thanks for the sympathetic response concerning the evolutionary views on
ethics (see below). You are right about my mistake between the "zoe" and
the "bios" (quite tricky that historical zoologization of the "bios"
concept!). Let me go one step beyond in the evolutio
Dear Rafael & Michael,
Thanks for the thoughtful opening text. Given that apparently ethics is far
away from an informational perspective (and that they can only be
reproached through the contraption "info ethics"), perhaps a preliminary
discussion on the evolution of social complexity might b
Dear FISers,
Let us thank Jerry (and Kevin) for the inspired chairing of the
biomolecular session; and let us also thank all the participants.
Overall, we have had a fine session, indeed. It is quite interesting that
some of the themes and responses left pending during last weeks might
surface ag
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