Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
On Wednesday 29 Oct 2008, Brendan Meutzner wrote: Hi I'm a Mac... and I'm a PC... This must be some sort of reference to an advert or something. I don't see adverts :-) -- Tom Chiverton Helping to preemptively mesh unique visionary communities This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Alternative FAQ location: https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=942dbdc8-e469-446f-b4cf-1e62079f6847 Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Ubuntu [?] On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:46 AM, dnk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29-Oct-08, at 6:56 AM, Fotis Chatzinikos wrote: Are you sure that you cannot run Leopard (MacOSX) on a vm? The desktop, no (unless it is hacked?), however if you run OS X server, it is supported in VM's (IE I think VMWare). d -- And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. BA2.png
[flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Hi, I'm very surprised about the way this thread evolved! I didn't expect such a reaction to the topic! I want to thank you all for your comments and just write down the responses to the questions I posted in the original thread: 1. Do most Flex developers work on Mac? No 2. Are most developers in the USA using Macs? No 3. Are their any advantages on using a Mac instead of a PC for Web/Flex development? It seems to be a matter of taste but I have noticed that most of the people who did the switch to Mac are very happy with it and would never go back to Windows. The key advantages of Mac over Windows seem to be: * Stability * User interface * Unix based (unix tools and console are very helpful for developers) All 3 points depend on one's experience so it's difficult to make an objective opinion. One point though speaks for Mac and it's the fact that you can't run OS X in any virtual machine. So if you develop for OS X, you have to buy a Mac. Thanks again and happy Flexing! -- Haykel Ben Jemia Allmas Web RIA Development http://www.allmas-tn.com
[flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
My WinXP machine does not crash per se. After a certain amount of time (24 - 48 hours) it will progressively slow down to the point of unusability. If I leave it too long it becomes so slow that I have to hit the reset button. If I catch it in time, I can get it to restart but it will take over an hour to do so. This has been my experience with every WinXP machine I have worked with. Even though it has not crashed, I can't say that it's stable. Maybe I should look at a Mac. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Paul Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to say that I'm with Dmitri on this one - I can't remember the last time my win XP laptop crashed.
[flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Haykel BEN JEMIA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm very surprised about the way this thread evolved! I didn't expect such a reaction to the topic! I want to thank you all for your comments and just write down the responses to the questions I posted in the original thread: 1. Do most Flex developers work on Mac? No 2. Are most developers in the USA using Macs? No 3. Are their any advantages on using a Mac instead of a PC for Web/Flex development? It seems to be a matter of taste but I have noticed that most of the people who did the switch to Mac are very happy with it and would never go back to Windows. The key advantages of Mac over Windows seem to be: * Stability * User interface * Unix based (unix tools and console are very helpful for developers) All 3 points depend on one's experience so it's difficult to make an objective opinion. One point though speaks for Mac and it's the fact that you can't run OS X in any virtual machine. So if you develop for OS X, you have to buy a Mac. My husband's Dell dual-boots to Mac... -Amy
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
On Wednesday 29 Oct 2008, Haykel BEN JEMIA wrote:
3. Are their any advantages on using a Mac instead of a PC for Web/Flex
development?
pedant
A Mac is a PC.
A Linux machine is a PC.
A Windows desktop is a PC.
/pedant
If you mean 'Windows', say so, don't abuse 'Personal Computer' like we have
Hoover (not 'Vacuum Cleaner') or Biro ('Ballpoint Pen') :-)
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to adaptively synthesize cross-media ubiquitous proactive
infrastructures
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
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Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at
Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list
of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference
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Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Are you sure that you cannot run Leopard (MacOSX) on a vm? I recently installed it on my Sony VAIO, so if it runs there it should run on a VM as well... Note: It was not the official DVD but something called kalyway or something like that, if i remember correctly they fix the oficial cds/dvd to run on normal pcs On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Haykel BEN JEMIA [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Hi, I'm very surprised about the way this thread evolved! I didn't expect such a reaction to the topic! I want to thank you all for your comments and just write down the responses to the questions I posted in the original thread: 1. Do most Flex developers work on Mac? No 2. Are most developers in the USA using Macs? No 3. Are their any advantages on using a Mac instead of a PC for Web/Flex development? It seems to be a matter of taste but I have noticed that most of the people who did the switch to Mac are very happy with it and would never go back to Windows. The key advantages of Mac over Windows seem to be: * Stability * User interface * Unix based (unix tools and console are very helpful for developers) All 3 points depend on one's experience so it's difficult to make an objective opinion. One point though speaks for Mac and it's the fact that you can't run OS X in any virtual machine. So if you develop for OS X, you have to buy a Mac. Thanks again and happy Flexing! -- Haykel Ben Jemia Allmas Web RIA Development http://www.allmas-tn.com -- Fotis Chatzinikos, Ph.D. Founder, Phinnovation [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Amy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Haykel BEN JEMIA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One point though speaks for Mac and it's the fact that you can't run OS X in any virtual machine. So if you develop for OS X, you have to buy a Mac. My husband's Dell dual-boots to Mac... That's typically called a Hackintosh, I think named so by the guys that first achieved such because of the amount of fiddling with the standard Apple install package to get it to install on non-Apple hardware. I've never worked with such an install but my understanding is that you have to be careful with software updates because you're playing in areas of the system that Apple likes to think of as under their control, so an update may disable the machine. Not sure how stable it is. I'm tempted by that from time to time as I pine for a new Macbook or MacBook Pro to replace my battered-and-dented-but-still-working PowerBook. But so far I'm still saving my pennies. -- Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The universe tends toward maximum irony. Don't push it. - Jeff Atwood
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
stupid reply on a stupid reply:
normal pc == windows these days :-)
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Tom Chiverton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Wednesday 29 Oct 2008, Haykel BEN JEMIA wrote:
3. Are their any advantages on using a Mac instead of a PC for Web/Flex
development?
pedant
A Mac is a PC.
A Linux machine is a PC.
A Windows desktop is a PC.
/pedant
If you mean 'Windows', say so, don't abuse 'Personal Computer' like we have
Hoover (not 'Vacuum Cleaner') or Biro ('Ballpoint Pen') :-)
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to adaptively synthesize cross-media ubiquitous proactive
infrastructures
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and
Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at
Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A
list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any
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Founder,
Phinnovation
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
So far Apple has not changed the software bits that would allow virtualization of OS X without hacking. The hackintosh install may run in VM, not sure. On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Fotis Chatzinikos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you sure that you cannot run Leopard (MacOSX) on a vm? I recently installed it on my Sony VAIO, so if it runs there it should run on a VM as well... -- Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The universe tends toward maximum irony. Don't push it. - Jeff Atwood
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Well, Leopard Server runs in a virtual machine. It's supported by VMWare Fusion and Parallels under OSX. Fotis Chatzinikos wrote: Are you sure that you cannot run Leopard (MacOSX) on a vm?
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Tom,
Hi I'm a Mac... and I'm a PC...
Intentionally or unintentionally Apple as branded Windows as PC... thus
the common use.
Brendan
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Tom Chiverton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Wednesday 29 Oct 2008, Haykel BEN JEMIA wrote:
3. Are their any advantages on using a Mac instead of a PC for Web/Flex
development?
pedant
A Mac is a PC.
A Linux machine is a PC.
A Windows desktop is a PC.
/pedant
If you mean 'Windows', say so, don't abuse 'Personal Computer' like we have
Hoover (not 'Vacuum Cleaner') or Biro ('Ballpoint Pen') :-)
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to adaptively synthesize cross-media ubiquitous proactive
infrastructures
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and
Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at
Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A
list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any
reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of
Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority.
CONFIDENTIALITY
This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and
may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you
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Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
I stand (sit, actually) corrected. That's a change for Leopard and only available in the server. However I couldn't find any basis to my assertion that it was a technical issue, only a licensing issue. You still have to have the licenses for each virtualized copy however. On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Weyert de Boer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Leopard Server runs in a virtual machine. It's supported by VMWare Fusion and Parallels under OSX. -- Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The universe tends toward maximum irony. Don't push it. - Jeff Atwood
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
As I recall, the PC term was originally associated with early IBM
model computers, was it not? I believe as Windows embraced the IBM PC
architecture, while the Mac OS did not, the PC generally became
synonymous with Windows (the dominant OS on the IBM PC platform).
It is a fairly pedantic argument anyway, because if anyone wants to
get purist about terms, personal computer is actually an improper
reference as well, as there is nothing inherently personal about a
computer anymore, given that computers not only host multiple
simultaneous logins, both local and remote; but also that a computer
is commonly shared by numerous different people in homes, in
businesses, as point of sale units, Internet cafes, etc.
I'm going to go try to retrieve the lost minutes of my life now... :-D
Cheers,
Brad
On Oct 29, 2008, at 9:38 AM, Brendan Meutzner wrote:
Tom,
Hi I'm a Mac... and I'm a PC...
Intentionally or unintentionally Apple as branded Windows as
PC... thus the common use.
Brendan
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Tom Chiverton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Wednesday 29 Oct 2008, Haykel BEN JEMIA wrote:
3. Are their any advantages on using a Mac instead of a PC for Web/
Flex
development?
pedant
A Mac is a PC.
A Linux machine is a PC.
A Windows desktop is a PC.
/pedant
If you mean 'Windows', say so, don't abuse 'Personal Computer' like
we have
Hoover (not 'Vacuum Cleaner') or Biro ('Ballpoint Pen') :-)
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to adaptively synthesize cross-media ubiquitous proactive
infrastructures
This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in
England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered
office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square,
Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is available
for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner
in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.
Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority.
CONFIDENTIALITY
This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above
and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the
addressee you must not read it and must not use any information
contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells
LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have
received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells
LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500.
For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.
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Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
On 28-Oct-08, at 7:42 PM, Paul Andrews wrote: I have to say that I'm with Dmitri on this one - I can't remember the last time my win XP laptop crashed. I am a systems tech, who programs flex as a hobby, and coming from a background of dealing with multiple OS systems (mac, win, linux, BSD, etc) in both a server and desktop environment with up to 2000 users). I personally find I do over all have way less issues with my mac than my previous windows based boxes. So for me it works. I look at the number of hours in a day I spend on support, and my win clients require at least 80% more of my time than their mac counter parts. And even then, my support for the mac users is more of how to do something since they have switched recently. On the Win side, it is a constant issue with compatibility, crashes, or updates that broke something and virus at times.. Now with that being said, maybe I don't know how to manage a win network, or maybe there is not enough user education on my/the company's part. =-) With the whole switching thing being so prominent these days, you can only make the decision for yourself once you have tried both systems (for more than a day of playing) in real world use. In doing what you do day to day. For a decent period of time. But once you do this, you can then decide if the $, os, etc ,etc is worth the switch for you. Too bad there is no try before you buy. =-P The bottom line is this: Any OS will get your job done. Some have advantages (both ways) in certain situations than the other, but it all comes down to your comfort, available support and budget. Neither one is bad. I just find that as a tech (working professionally since about 97), my mac systems do just have less issues in the bigger picture with minimal technical intervention. Sure you can have a win install hum along, but that comes with some tweaks, and a whole lot of user education (just my opinion - which is not necessarily right.). Of the true technical issues i have with macs, usually come with software that was ported to the mac as an afterthought. I am kind of (neutral) Switzerland on this one. It is best to try it, then decide (if you have the opportunity). Sometimes easier said than done. D
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
On 29-Oct-08, at 6:59 AM, Amy wrote: My husband's Dell dual-boots to Mac... -Amy Keep in mind that he is probably using the OSX 86 (hacked os x to run on other intel hardware) install, and is prone to some issues that fall outside of what an experience would be running a regular mac setup. It could be susceptible to other issues. But I am not speaking from experience here - so it should be taken with a grain of salt. d
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
On 29-Oct-08, at 6:56 AM, Fotis Chatzinikos wrote: Are you sure that you cannot run Leopard (MacOSX) on a vm? The desktop, no (unless it is hacked?), however if you run OS X server, it is supported in VM's (IE I think VMWare). d
[flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
I switched about 10 months ago, and I'll still tell anyone who is interested how happy I am about it. I do all of my work, comfortably and happily, on a 15 MBP. The overall positive impact on my productivity is more than worth the 5x pricetag. But, on top of that, my working life is so much less stressful, it's just ridiculous. And, that of course, also makes me more productive (which in turn reduces stress). --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Cole Joplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have made the switch to Mac, and wanted to chime in. I have developed on Windows for most of my career, but I'm moving everything to Mac. I am more than satisfied with FB3 on the Mac. In fact, I've been slowly moving to Mac for practically everything for a year now. Development is better, and overall stress is way down. It's a little different, just like Linux is different. Everything just works, all the time, as far as tools goes. That is my experience anyway. I'm not alone. One by one, my co-workers are running necessary Windows programs from VMWare Fusion, with no complaints. In fact, our office is just buying new Macs. Linux seems to be the fate of all our Windows PCs nowadays, especially if it says Dell. That's working out extremely well also. The bottom line is we are more productive on Macs. Isn't that the point? I am fortunate to have a MacBook Pro, with 4GB and 8MB of L2 cache. So, there's a lot to be said for good hardware and memory. But since this a general Mac statement, I say yes, it's great. Scared of Vista? It's okay, you can say it, we all know. Thinking now's a good time to switch? Definitely consider it. With people scavenging for unused XP licenses, because they are tired of rebuilding Vista, it's good timing. I was fine with XP, but that's not a real choice for the future. Vista is a big step backwards, in our experience. Who knows when a new Windows is coming out. We can't wait a few years for them to get their act together. Macs have never been so good. It's not just the new and shiny, as has been suggested previously. Mac makes a solid case for productivity, now and the next few years. I'm sure Adobe would agree. Right now, I can't image not having a Mac to develop on. -- Cole From: Gustavo Duenas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:53:10 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Do you use a Mac? welcome to the mac family :) On Oct 24, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Jatin Nanda wrote: I still use both forms extensively. I have a development PC, which I am slowly de-commissioning and a dell laptop that is primarily used for off-site work. My new development machine is actually a 2Gb 24 iMac (am awaiting delivery of the additional 2Gb). Apart from the big screen, the main reason why i bought this is the lact of wires. It has a single power cable, i have an Ethernet cable an additional DVI cable for a 2nd screen. But no other wires (keyboard and mouse are wireless). Its got a built in cam for video conferencing, and built in speakers. Where my development pc had upto 15 different cables (power, additional monitors, speakers, keyboard mouse) the iMac makes my desk tidier. Oh yes and it looks good too. As a development experience, I am slowly beginning to lean towards the mac. Eclipse does not look as good/polish as it does on a PC. Expose Spaces is very useful. But since I still need a lot of windows apps, which are installed in VMs. I could do with more RAM though Regards, J 2008/10/24 john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] net yeah, thanks, have that. Its much better than a couple of years ago. Probably plenty good enough for a bushwhacker like me if I just took some time with it. J Guy Morton wrote: Inkscape is a reasonable Illustrator- replacement, and it's free. Gustavo A. Duenas Creative DirectorLEFT AND RIGHT SOLUTIONS 904. 265 0330 - 904. 386 7958 www.leftandrightsolutions.com Jacksonville - Florida
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
- Original Message - From: ross_w_henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:39 PM Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac? I switched about 10 months ago, and I'll still tell anyone who is interested how happy I am about it. I do all of my work, comfortably and happily, on a 15 MBP. The overall positive impact on my productivity is more than worth the 5x pricetag. But, on top of that, my working life is so much less stressful, it's just ridiculous. And, that of course, also makes me more productive (which in turn reduces stress). So what specifically was giving you such stress on windows that is now gone on the Mac? Where has that productivity come from?
[flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
What, specifically, would be a very long list, but I'll try to throw in some examples. To answer your question in a sentence, though: the reduced stress and increased productivity have come from using equipment that works reliably and efficiently. A much longer response: After I had moved over to my Mac, I realized how much of my work effort had been going into dealing with working with Windows. This comes from 10 years of working on Windows OSs - Win95, 98, NT, 2k, and XP. Dealing with multiple daily crashes/freezes was something I had become used to. Having that aspect of work-life virtually removed (though, not completely removed) has been a huge reducer of stress, and has also contributed to greater productivity. OSX removes or hides a lot of complexity for various tasks - whether setting up a vpn connection, connecting to a wireless network, or creating a Word document - that are just kind of like exposed wiring in Windows machines. However, unlike Win, you can also get at that complexity in a clean, predictable, and sensible way if you want/need. Again, a lot of stress reduction there, and also greater productivity. I've been able to learn to do more lower-level computing with my Mac than I've ever been able to do on a PC. Also, after a month or so I found my Mac much more enjoyable to use than any PC I've ever worked on. Far more reliable, sure, but also just more pleasant. This is speculation on my part, but I think that what makes Macs so nice to use has to do with the way everything is so explicit in the UI - when you put something in the trash, there's a little dust cloud animation that plays: you absolutely know, even in the back of your mind, that what you meant to do happened. The same approach applied throughout the entire UI experience means that there aren't unterminated threads building up in my subconcious, unsure if a particular action has occurred, or not. And, then there is the fact that my hardware is a lot better - if I had spent $2400 on a PC laptop, I'm sure I would have a much better experience than on the $1400 laptop I was using previously. But... as the CEO of my last company went around saying for weeks, Want to see my Vista wireless solution? (holds up a network cable). The overall experience is _so_ much superior to Windows machines that I can hardly keep myself from encouraging anyone who is thinking about switching. Hope that's useful. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Paul Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: ross_w_henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:39 PM Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac? I switched about 10 months ago, and I'll still tell anyone who is interested how happy I am about it. I do all of my work, comfortably and happily, on a 15 MBP. The overall positive impact on my productivity is more than worth the 5x pricetag. But, on top of that, my working life is so much less stressful, it's just ridiculous. And, that of course, also makes me more productive (which in turn reduces stress). So what specifically was giving you such stress on windows that is now gone on the Mac? Where has that productivity come from?
[flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, ross_w_henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dealing with multiple daily crashes/freezes was something I had become used to. Hmmm, my development PC with WinXP has usual uptime 90-150 days and not because of the crashes/freezes, but because of the system updates which require reboots. Could you please tell me what I am doing wrong? I feel kind of avoided by something very important. Cheers, Dmitri.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
I have to say that I'm with Dmitri on this one - I can't remember the last time my win XP laptop crashed. Paul - Original Message - From: Dmitri Girski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:06 AM Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac? --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, ross_w_henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dealing with multiple daily crashes/freezes was something I had become used to. Hmmm, my development PC with WinXP has usual uptime 90-150 days and not because of the crashes/freezes, but because of the system updates which require reboots. Could you please tell me what I am doing wrong? I feel kind of avoided by something very important. Cheers, Dmitri. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Alternative FAQ location: https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=942dbdc8-e469-446f-b4cf-1e62079f6847 Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Are you kidding me? If I follow what you're saying, you've had Windows run crash free for 3-5 months? If so, you should contact Microsoft so they can make a commercial about you... might halt some of the abandonment from Windows to Mac if people actually believed that. Sorry to sound so cynical here, but the unavoidable truth is that Mac is much much less prone to crashing (at the OS level) than Windows. Sure, applications still crash, but when they do they don't pull down the entire OS in the process. Interestingly, nobody (including myself in a previous post on this thread) has brought up the fact that Mac is also not susceptible to the Virus/Spyware issues that Windows is, so I'll add it now. Not trying to sound like a Mac commercial, and also understanding that this point is not directly relevant to the initial question about Win vs Mac as development environment, but the fact I don't have Norton/McAfee/Live OneCare/etc... running on my machine helps networking and performance on my machine too :-) Brendan On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Dmitri Girski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, ross_w_henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dealing with multiple daily crashes/freezes was something I had become used to. Hmmm, my development PC with WinXP has usual uptime 90-150 days and not because of the crashes/freezes, but because of the system updates which require reboots. Could you please tell me what I am doing wrong? I feel kind of avoided by something very important. Cheers, Dmitri. -- Brendan Meutzner http://www.meutzner.com/blog/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Can we kill this thread, or what? It basically turned to name-calling quite some time ago. On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Brendan Meutzner [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Are you kidding me? If I follow what you're saying, you've had Windows run crash free for 3-5 months? If so, you should contact Microsoft so they can make a commercial about you... might halt some of the abandonment from Windows to Mac if people actually believed that. Sorry to sound so cynical here, but the unavoidable truth is that Mac is much much less prone to crashing (at the OS level) than Windows. Sure, applications still crash, but when they do they don't pull down the entire OS in the process. Interestingly, nobody (including myself in a previous post on this thread) has brought up the fact that Mac is also not susceptible to the Virus/Spyware issues that Windows is, so I'll add it now. Not trying to sound like a Mac commercial, and also understanding that this point is not directly relevant to the initial question about Win vs Mac as development environment, but the fact I don't have Norton/McAfee/Live OneCare/etc... running on my machine helps networking and performance on my machine too :-) Brendan On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Dmitri Girski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, ross_w_henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dealing with multiple daily crashes/freezes was something I had become used to. Hmmm, my development PC with WinXP has usual uptime 90-150 days and not because of the crashes/freezes, but because of the system updates which require reboots. Could you please tell me what I am doing wrong? I feel kind of avoided by something very important. Cheers, Dmitri. -- Brendan Meutzner http://www.meutzner.com/blog/ -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. Like the cut of my jib? Check out my Flex blog! :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: http://flex.joshmcdonald.info/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Well, since you've picked the car analogy... There are plenty of things that you can play with in OS X. You can even play with stuff that Apple says isn't supposed to by played with. But don't be surprised if the next upgrade replaces something you've tinkered with. Just like you wouldn't be suprised if you took your car to the dealer after installing a hydrogen injector to the engine to increase the MPG and the dealer said, sorry, you've modified the engine, we won't work on it. I've used Macs since the original 128 (and Apple ][ before that) and all my personal computers are Macs. I have to use Windows at work because some standards committee in some far flung part of the corporate beast decided it had to be that way. My personal servers are Linux (the $/usability ratio isn't low enough for my cheap wallet to host on OS X right now). Computers, whether they run OS X, Windows XP/Vista, or Linux, are complex machines that sometimes break for inexplicable reasons. I've worked on Macs that were buggy until I worked out the right combination of OS and third-party software. I've worked on Macs that are as stable as a rock (I can't remember the last time my PowerBook crashed). The same goes for my experiences with Windows. YMMV. While computer mfg/OS affiliations are akin to a religion, computers are tools nothing more. Everyone has their preferences (mine's a Mac running OS X). On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Dmitri Girski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I don't think that is wrong - computers should be easy to use. I presume that you don't know how do injectors work in your car's engine. Neither do I. And this is good. But if you are a mechanic and you want to work on Apple's car you will find that everything consists of a roseish/shiny plastic things which don't allow hammering/screwing and other actions. But their conform with every National Standard. -- Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The universe tends toward maximum irony. Don't push it. - Jeff Atwood
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
While computer mfg/OS affiliations are akin to a religion, computers are tools nothing more. I have no comment on the issue since this comes up on flexcoders about every other month but this statement is what I was telling myself when reading some of these posts, this has been the only fact given. My analogy is nature has it right, mankind seems to love trends and affiliations (we seem to need identities). A tree has been a tree for as long as trees have stood on the earth. Nature made trees as a tool, to regenerate oxygen so the earth might live just a little longer. I can see it now, in another dimension the deciduous hate the conifers and the conifers hate the deciduous. Mike On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM, Howard Fore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, since you've picked the car analogy... There are plenty of things that you can play with in OS X. You can even play with stuff that Apple says isn't supposed to by played with. But don't be surprised if the next upgrade replaces something you've tinkered with. Just like you wouldn't be suprised if you took your car to the dealer after installing a hydrogen injector to the engine to increase the MPG and the dealer said, sorry, you've modified the engine, we won't work on it. I've used Macs since the original 128 (and Apple ][ before that) and all my personal computers are Macs. I have to use Windows at work because some standards committee in some far flung part of the corporate beast decided it had to be that way. My personal servers are Linux (the $/usability ratio isn't low enough for my cheap wallet to host on OS X right now). Computers, whether they run OS X, Windows XP/Vista, or Linux, are complex machines that sometimes break for inexplicable reasons. I've worked on Macs that were buggy until I worked out the right combination of OS and third-party software. I've worked on Macs that are as stable as a rock (I can't remember the last time my PowerBook crashed). The same goes for my experiences with Windows. YMMV. While computer mfg/OS affiliations are akin to a religion, computers are tools nothing more. Everyone has their preferences (mine's a Mac running OS X). On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Dmitri Girski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I don't think that is wrong - computers should be easy to use. I presume that you don't know how do injectors work in your car's engine. Neither do I. And this is good. But if you are a mechanic and you want to work on Apple's car you will find that everything consists of a roseish/shiny plastic things which don't allow hammering/screwing and other actions. But their conform with every National Standard. -- Howard Fore, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The universe tends toward maximum irony. Don't push it. - Jeff Atwood -- Teoti Graphix, LLC http://www.teotigraphix.com Teoti Graphix Blog http://www.blog.teotigraphix.com You can find more by solving the problem then by 'asking the question'.
[flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Hi Matthew, I know, I know, it will be only one post in this thread :) We have a mix of Windows Mac machines. The time I spent setting up things/ fixing problems is 1:10. WinXP is a stable system. I don't like MS. I don't like Windows, but I can't just say that it does not work, as it would be a lie. It simply works. (I remind you, that I am not talking about bloody Vista) On the contrary, MacOs - is a weirdo in terms of control. We have to install Postgres/Apache/PHP for work and this is a crappiest part of the work. I don't have problems with Win/FreeBSD/Linux. But I DO have problems with MacOs. It just irritates me - it knows better then me what to do. If some people are fine with this idea - it's their choice, at least that's how army forces work. I prefer to choose what I want and the way I want. Oh, MacOs... Every time it updates itself, it destroys any other installations of Apache. WTF? It is too smart, there can't be multiple installations of Apache. Oh, and this sweet, sweet keyboard layout... I thought that the worst thing ever happened to me was vi, but I was so wrong. I got used to vi, but not to MacOs keyboard. For those Mac evangelists who are still not convinced I suggest a simple test - setup an external to Airport SSH connection to their beloved Macs. If they still call it simply works I will eat my hat. But as far as I know Mac adepts usually answer either: a) we don't need it b) why do you need it anyway? NB: Apple Army Forces, eh? :) So, there are so many tiny little things in MacOS that are wrong for me, so I just can't use. Of course it is a great thing for people who just do Illustrator - Flash - Flex (Safari+Mail in the middle) - PS. But as as soon as you need anything different - you are on a thin ice. Still, I sincerely respect the design side of Apple. So, do I support Mac? Yes! Will I use it for development? Hell, NO! Will I suggest it for design work? Sure! Cheers, Dmitri. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Like someone else already posted. The main advantage to using OSX instead of WindowsXP/Vista is that you spend more time actually getting work done. I spent fifteen years in various Windows boxes. I switched last year and I'll never go back.
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
I have to agree with Dmitri, I have a macbook sitting next to a dell PC, both have flex builder installed (one so I can work from home if needed). When I actually want to sit down and make some progress I go to my PC. When I need to do anything in Photoshop or Flash I go straight to my mac (not to imply that work done in Photoshop and Flash are not progressive). I just think of them as different tools for different tasks. Sometimes you can beat in a nail with a pair of pliers, but you just don't work at the same level of effectiveness. Just my 2 cents. Blake From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dmitri Girski Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 5:11 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac? Hi Matthew, I know, I know, it will be only one post in this thread :) We have a mix of Windows Mac machines. The time I spent setting up things/ fixing problems is 1:10. WinXP is a stable system. I don't like MS. I don't like Windows, but I can't just say that it does not work, as it would be a lie. It simply works. (I remind you, that I am not talking about bloody Vista) On the contrary, MacOs - is a weirdo in terms of control. We have to install Postgres/Apache/PHP for work and this is a crappiest part of the work. I don't have problems with Win/FreeBSD/Linux. But I DO have problems with MacOs. It just irritates me - it knows better then me what to do. If some people are fine with this idea - it's their choice, at least that's how army forces work. I prefer to choose what I want and the way I want. Oh, MacOs... Every time it updates itself, it destroys any other installations of Apache. WTF? It is too smart, there can't be multiple installations of Apache. Oh, and this sweet, sweet keyboard layout... I thought that the worst thing ever happened to me was vi, but I was so wrong. I got used to vi, but not to MacOs keyboard. For those Mac evangelists who are still not convinced I suggest a simple test - setup an external to Airport SSH connection to their beloved Macs. If they still call it simply works I will eat my hat. But as far as I know Mac adepts usually answer either: a) we don't need it b) why do you need it anyway? NB: Apple Army Forces, eh? :) So, there are so many tiny little things in MacOS that are wrong for me, so I just can't use. Of course it is a great thing for people who just do Illustrator - Flash - Flex (Safari+Mail in the middle) - PS. But as as soon as you need anything different - you are on a thin ice. Still, I sincerely respect the design side of Apple. So, do I support Mac? Yes! Will I use it for development? Hell, NO! Will I suggest it for design work? Sure! Cheers, Dmitri. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Like someone else already posted. The main advantage to using OSX instead of WindowsXP/Vista is that you spend more time actually getting work done. I spent fifteen years in various Windows boxes. I switched last year and I'll never go back.
[flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Hi Guy, I know FreeBSD/Linux quite well to say that OSX's underlying unix is just a castrated version of FreeBSD to make it safe for the housewifes/designers. If they are not happy with Win/Cygwin I doubt that they found a happiness with MacOs. Cheers, Dmitri. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's not so true any more. I have lots of hard-core geek friends and many of them are moving to OSX because it's got unix under the hood,
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
I think it's interesting that people who bag people who prefer Macs often resort to comments like oh it's fine for people who don't know anything about computers or it's good for housewives. According to Apple, Mac OS X is a fully compliant UNIX: UNIX certification. Leopard is an Open Brand UNIX 03 Registered Product, conforming to the SUSv3 and POSIX 1003.1 specifications for the C API, Shell Utilities, and Threads. Since Leopard can compile and run all your existing UNIX code, you can deploy it in environments that demand full conformance — complete with hooks to maintain compatibility with existing software. So, what is it missing, in your experience? Guy On 24/10/2008, at 11:23 AM, Dmitri Girski wrote: Hi Guy, I know FreeBSD/Linux quite well to say that OSX's underlying unix is just a castrated version of FreeBSD to make it safe for the housewifes/designers. If they are not happy with Win/Cygwin I doubt that they found a happiness with MacOs. Cheers, Dmitri. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's not so true any more. I have lots of hard-core geek friends and many of them are moving to OSX because it's got unix under the hood,
[flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Heh, you don't want to consider yourself being a housewife in computers? :)) But you said that your friends selected MacOs because it's got unix under the hood, looks great That's the professional choice, I'll tell you! Actually, I don't think that is wrong - computers should be easy to use. I presume that you don't know how do injectors work in your car's engine. Neither do I. And this is good. But if you are a mechanic and you want to work on Apple's car you will find that everything consists of a roseish/shiny plastic things which don't allow hammering/screwing and other actions. But their conform with every National Standard. PS And I'll leave your comment regarding my experience in maintaining Leopard out of scope. Cheers, Dmitri. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's interesting that people who bag people who prefer Macs often resort to comments like oh it's fine for people who don't know anything about computers or it's good for housewives. According to Apple, Mac OS X is a fully compliant UNIX: UNIX certification. Leopard is an Open Brand UNIX 03 Registered Product, conforming to the SUSv3 and POSIX 1003.1 specifications for the C API, Shell Utilities, and Threads. Since Leopard can compile and run all your existing UNIX code, you can deploy it in environments that demand full conformance complete with hooks to maintain compatibility with existing software. So, what is it missing, in your experience? Guy On 24/10/2008, at 11:23 AM, Dmitri Girski wrote: Hi Guy, I know FreeBSD/Linux quite well to say that OSX's underlying unix is just a castrated version of FreeBSD to make it safe for the housewifes/designers. If they are not happy with Win/Cygwin I doubt that they found a happiness with MacOs. Cheers, Dmitri. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton guy@ wrote: That's not so true any more. I have lots of hard-core geek friends and many of them are moving to OSX because it's got unix under the hood,
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Do you use a Mac?
Yes, Dmitri, my Mac-using friends lack professionalism because they use Macs... *sigh* Guy On 24/10/2008, at 1:56 PM, Dmitri Girski wrote: Heh, you don't want to consider yourself being a housewife in computers? :)) But you said that your friends selected MacOs because it's got unix under the hood, looks great That's the professional choice, I'll tell you! Actually, I don't think that is wrong - computers should be easy to use. I presume that you don't know how do injectors work in your car's engine. Neither do I. And this is good. But if you are a mechanic and you want to work on Apple's car you will find that everything consists of a roseish/shiny plastic things which don't allow hammering/screwing and other actions. But their conform with every National Standard. PS And I'll leave your comment regarding my experience in maintaining Leopard out of scope. Cheers, Dmitri. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's interesting that people who bag people who prefer Macs often resort to comments like oh it's fine for people who don't know anything about computers or it's good for housewives. According to Apple, Mac OS X is a fully compliant UNIX: UNIX certification. Leopard is an Open Brand UNIX 03 Registered Product, conforming to the SUSv3 and POSIX 1003.1 specifications for the C API, Shell Utilities, and Threads. Since Leopard can compile and run all your existing UNIX code, you can deploy it in environments that demand full conformance — complete with hooks to maintain compatibility with existing software. So, what is it missing, in your experience? Guy On 24/10/2008, at 11:23 AM, Dmitri Girski wrote: Hi Guy, I know FreeBSD/Linux quite well to say that OSX's underlying unix is just a castrated version of FreeBSD to make it safe for the housewifes/designers. If they are not happy with Win/Cygwin I doubt that they found a happiness with MacOs. Cheers, Dmitri. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton guy@ wrote: That's not so true any more. I have lots of hard-core geek friends and many of them are moving to OSX because it's got unix under the hood,
