Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot tuning
On 28 Jan 2010, at 04:00, syd adams wrote: you can also check the instrumentation/nav/nav-loc , but it seems to stay stuck on true if you tune another frequency that's out of range or invalid... not sure when that broke. My fault, just checked the code and it's trivial to fix. WIl commit it ASAP. As ever, the sooner people report these things, the sooner I'll fix them :) James -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot tuning
On 28 Jan 2010, at 03:45, Ron Jensen wrote:
Here is a nasal function to determine if a frequency is a localizer. It
accepts a frequency in megahertz and returns 1 if the frequency is an
ILS frequency.
var isILS=func(freq) {
if(freq 108.10) return 0;
if(freq 111.95) return 0;
var bar=int((freq+0.001)*10)-int(freq)*10;
return(bits.test(bar,0));
}
A general observation - it'd be much better to request C++ properties /
native-nasal functions that implement such logic, rather than coding it up in
Nasal (in each aircraft / instrument).
Individually each function is trivial but it does add up to a lot of Nasal
being run. I've seen other code manually computing if a VOR is in range, and
various other mathematical / trigonometric / geometric operations. In practice
the CPU hit is probably negligible, but semantically, the C++ code is already
computing all this stuff - if it's not being exposed (via properties), or being
exposed badly or unhelpfully, then I'd much prefer people complain loudly about
the fact, here.
As Syd already mentioned, this is a case in point with the nav/nav-loc property
... both that it exists, but also that it wasn't working right - but will be
(again), soon.
Regards,
James
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot tuning
On 28 Jan 2010, at 09:18, James Turner wrote: My fault, just checked the code and it's trivial to fix. WIl commit it ASAP. Committed now - also made the same fix for 'has-gs' which was similarly getting stuck on the old value when no valid station was tuned. James -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Atlas assert on apt.dat.gz
Jari Häkkinen wrote: Atlas does not like the current apt.dat.gz because of string 'SOUTH' on line 119725: I've fixed hepilad name assignments for two airfields, please pull the current file from FlightGear's CVS and check if it's now working as expected. Actually this bunch of airfield improvements grew out of the need of doing _something_ wrt. collecting people's contributions and was never planned to grow that big :-) If this is going to continue, then I'll certainly be going to implement a proper solution which includes automated consistency checking - which it currently does not. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
On Thursday 28 Jan 2010, Curtis Olson wrote:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Ron Jensen w...@jentronics.com
wrote:
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 09:24 +, James Turner wrote:
On 28 Jan 2010, at 03:45, Ron Jensen wrote:
Here is a nasal function to determine if a frequency is a
localizer.
It
accepts a frequency in megahertz and returns 1 if the
frequency is an ILS frequency.
var isILS=func(freq) {
if(freq 108.10) return 0;
if(freq 111.95) return 0;
var bar=int((freq+0.001)*10)-int(freq)*10;
return(bits.test(bar,0));
}
A general observation - it'd be much better to request C++
properties / native-nasal functions that implement such
logic, rather than coding it up in Nasal (in each aircraft /
instrument).
Actually, I disagree with this statement, and it represents a
fundamental shift in attitude from the way I've seen
flightgear's development progressing over the past year or two.
- Hard-coding every instrument in C++ instead of nasal means
only developers following/building the latest cvs head code get
to use whatever until the next release cycle.
- Hard coding every instrument/flight control in C++ means my
WW-II storch (et.al.) is stuck with an autobrake functionality
it doesn't have nor need.
- The pool of people with commit rights to C++ code is very,
very small.
I think it boils down to the fact that we have two approaches
that can accomplish the same thing. The C/C++ approach offers
high performance but there is a dependence on when the C/C++ code
was added to FlightGear. The Nasal approach offers fast
prototyping, flexibility, and more (but not complete)
independence from the C/C++ code.
This means that for any particular case, there may be plenty to
discuss and debate, and there may not be one single general
purpose approach that works for everyone.
Regards,
Curt.
I think that as a general rule of thumb, Nasal is suitable for
relatively low update rate aircraft specific stuff - let's say up
to 10-20 Hz, but anything that has to run at a higher rate is
better implemented in controllers filters, or coded in C++.
LeeE
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:15 AM, leee wrote: I think that as a general rule of thumb, Nasal is suitable for relatively low update rate aircraft specific stuff - let's say up to 10-20 Hz, but anything that has to run at a higher rate is better implemented in controllers filters, or coded in C++. I would characterize this a bit differently. Nasal can be great for doing things at full frame rate. But if you push too much Nasal into the main update loop, you could start to bring down your frame rates. However, if you have so much Nasal code that you can't run it at full frame rates, then running that same nasal code at 10-20 hertz or less is going to still harm your frame rates by introducing stutters whenever it runs. Thus I would say that too much Nasal will harm frame rates whether you are running that nasal code at full update rates, or at some lower rate. It's interesting though how much nasal you can actually get away with using without making a blip on frame rates. Nasal is *very* efficient and powerful for being an interpreted script language. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
On 28 Jan 2010, at 16:31, Curtis Olson wrote: It's interesting though how much nasal you can actually get away with using without making a blip on frame rates. Nasal is *very* efficient and powerful for being an interpreted script language. Absolutely - and I really don't want to get into an efficiency debate about Nasal (or, even worse, C++!) My concern is about maintainability - coming back to the 'nav-loc' example, this is a very general function, which the C++ code is supposed to provide. Working around C++ bugs or omissions is Nasal just seems unfortunate to me - it shows that on the C++ side 'we' (the C++ developers) need to be more responsive to requests from the Nasal/aircraft author side. (And yes, more frequent release would help) A related observation is that there is not much of a FG-sepcific Nasal 'standard library' for this kind of thing, so huge amounts of copy-and-paste goes on between aircraft. Sometimes there's five or ten copies of a given Nasal function in CVS, across different aircraft. If something is in C++, my hope is that people will prefer that to writing their own version. This is partly true for the autobrake case - by defining the properties in C++, it forces people to use a standard interface for the feature/instrument. If things are pure Nasal, authors *tend* to use their own property scheme, so that only the core (C++ properties) end up being generic and standard. This doesn't need C++ to fix, of course - just a better standards body to agree what properties and names are used. Regards, James -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
Hi all, if you have duplicate code across many airplanes, let's say basic navigation or basic instruments, you may still want to write a pure Nasal library which holds generic functionality. Another things is byte-compilation. This is a hybrid of classic interpreters and classic compilers. And it is e.g. done in Java or Python. I don't want to start a discussing here if they are good or bad languages but they seem to be successful with this approach because you have the flexibility which only a scripting language can gain and still the (nearly, around 99.9% maybe) full speed a native language, like C++ is, has. The drop-back of this approach is the initialization phase. But on modern systems it shouldn't take that long. And one thing more when I read the subject line which came across me: How many airplane developer will you loose if you remove the Nasal engine from FGFS because they can write Nasal code but not C++ code? Regards, Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Brant Gipson ioncannon21...@gmail.com wrote: Contact the domain owner to get a subdomain like mpserver12.flightgear.org Posting here usually qualifies as contacting the domain owner :D By the way, I think something should be done about 02. It is way too overused and seems to have some intermittent relaying problems (even though it is supposed to have IP filtering now). I don't know if the problems are caused by the overload or not, though. What do you think about renaming it to 12? I suggest leaving its slot unused for some time (so that people would realize it is down), and adding the new server (which seems to have plenty of bandwidth) in 03's slot (which has been down for a long time). Eventually some other server could become 02. Reason: I think a lot of people ignore the location of the servers and instead just start from 01 until they find a working one and then just stick to it. So when 01 is down, I expect people to switch to 02 and they stay there even after 01 is back. The situation is made worse by the relay problem - people switch to 02 to see other pilots reliably. Not to mention the rumor that some mac version defaults to 02. My suggestion applies only as long as we don't have a better solution to the MP server choice problem, of course. -- Csaba/Jester -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Nasal?
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Roland rol...@mxchange.org wrote: Another things is byte-compilation. This is a hybrid of classic interpreters and classic compilers. And it is e.g. done in Java or Python. I don't want to start a discussing here if they are good or bad languages but they seem to be successful with this approach because you have the flexibility which only a scripting language can gain and still the (nearly, around 99.9% maybe) full speed a native language, like C++ is, has. As I understand it Nasal does byte compiling, but there was some question about whether or not the byte compiled version is saved from one iteration to the next. I recall Andy saying at one point that the byte compiler is really fast so it doesn't matter too much ... (?) Probably someone here can clarify that. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands
Hi, internal balancing would be nice. Here is an example conservation between FGFS and FGMS: FGFS: Connects to 01. FGMS01: Reports back that it is full (10 pilots online, e.g.) and includes 03 in its response. 01 knows, that 03 has 3 pilots online FGFS: Reconnects to 03 FGMS03: Reports 3 online pilots and accepts the 4th one Is that possible? Then we don't need people to force to change their configuration and still have some kind of balancing. This, of course, requires some inter-server-communication where they report the amount of online pilots to each other. Regards, Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Nasal?
Oh sorry, I wasn't aware of that. :-) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands
From: Csaba Halász: By the way, I think something should be done about 02. It is way too overused and seems to have some intermittent relaying problems (even though it is supposed to have IP filtering now). I don't know if the problems are caused by the overload or not, though. What do you think about renaming it to 12? I suggest leaving its slot unused for some time (so that people would realize it is down), and adding the new server (which seems to have plenty of bandwidth) in 03's slot (which has been down for a long time). Eventually some other server could become 02. Reason: I think a lot of people ignore the location of the servers and instead just start from 01 until they find a working one and then just stick to it. So when 01 is down, I expect people to switch to 02 and they stay there even after 01 is back. The situation is made worse by the relay problem - people switch to 02 to see other pilots reliably. Not to mention the rumor that some mac version defaults to 02. I'm not certain about either of the below two statements, so take them with a grain of salt: (1) 02 is filtering out North American IPs as a solution for the excessive bandwidth issues. However, is this not also filtering out relay information from 05 and 07? (2) Doesn't a lot of the original documentation, as well as maybe wiki articles or forum how-tos, etc., use mpserver02 as the example value to put into that slot? Maybe we need to do a thorough search of all of the MP-related documentation? Of course, if the concept of just filling in 02 is that pervasive, then leaving that number unassigned for a while will definitely drive home the point of Find one that works best for you. What about adding a button to FGRun which, when pressed, will ping all of the available MP servers and automatically fill that slot with the one which returned the fastest? Cheers, -R. (MD-Terp) Robert M. Shearman, Jr. Transit Operations Supervisor, University of Maryland Department of Transportation also known as rm...@umd.edu From: Csaba Halász csaba.hal...@gmail.com To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 12:21:59 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Brant Gipson ioncannon21...@gmail.com wrote: Contact the domain owner to get a subdomain like mpserver12.flightgear.org Posting here usually qualifies as contacting the domain owner :D By the way, I think something should be done about 02. It is way too overused and seems to have some intermittent relaying problems (even though it is supposed to have IP filtering now). I don't know if the problems are caused by the overload or not, though. What do you think about renaming it to 12? I suggest leaving its slot unused for some time (so that people would realize it is down), and adding the new server (which seems to have plenty of bandwidth) in 03's slot (which has been down for a long time). Eventually some other server could become 02. Reason: I think a lot of people ignore the location of the servers and instead just start from 01 until they find a working one and then just stick to it. So when 01 is down, I expect people to switch to 02 and they stay there even after 01 is back. The situation is made worse by the relay problem - people switch to 02 to see other pilots reliably. Not to mention the rumor that some mac version defaults to 02. My suggestion applies only as long as we don't have a better solution to the MP server choice problem, of course. -- Csaba/Jester -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Rob Shearman, Jr. rmsj...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm not certain about either of the below two statements, so take them with a grain of salt: (1) 02 is filtering out North American IPs as a solution for the excessive bandwidth issues. However, is this not also filtering out relay information from 05 and 07? It has some filter that is supposed to keep out unwelcome users, but it isn't working too well. It does make an exception for 05 and 07, though. (2) Doesn't a lot of the original documentation, as well as maybe wiki articles or forum how-tos, etc., use mpserver02 as the example value to put into that slot? Maybe we need to do a thorough search of all of the MP-related documentation? Yeah, would be good to just use mpserverXX as a placeholder. Of course, if the concept of just filling in 02 is that pervasive, then leaving that number unassigned for a while will definitely drive home the point of Find one that works best for you. That was my intention :) What about adding a button to FGRun which, when pressed, will ping all of the available MP servers and automatically fill that slot with the one which returned the fastest? The trouble is, checking ping is not enough. A half-working automatic solution may be even worse than none at all, because people would think it works and care even less about mp server selection. How about adding an on-screen message (ie. not in the terminal) while starting in mp mode, something like: You are now connected to serverXX. Please make sure this is the right one for you. -- Csaba/Jester -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
Ron Jensen wrote: Actually, I disagree with this statement, and it represents a fundamental shift in attitude from the way I've seen flightgear's development progressing over the past year or two. Well, you're implying that the past two years progress in this area of development is to be considered as being best practice, but this doesn't necessarily have to be this way. - Hard-coding every instrument in C++ instead of nasal [...] This is not James' claim. - Hard coding every instrument/flight control in C++ [...] This one not either. - The pool of people with commit rights to C++ code is very, very small. There might be an 'organizational' issue, do you really think this should be taken as a measure for proper (TM ;-) technical design ? Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
Am Donnerstag, den 28.01.2010, 18:18 +0100 schrieb Roland: [...] And one thing more when I read the subject line which came across me: How many airplane developer will you loose if you remove the Nasal engine from FGFS because they can write Nasal code but not C++ code? The instant loss may not be developers (although at least I would be very upset), but an instant loss of functionalities. I guess nearly every sophisticated Aircraft uses some kind of Nasal, be it Effects like tyre smoke or important functionalities like Engine and electric management, The Bluebird FDM is completely written in Nasal, vital parts of the V-22 Osprey rely on it, Flyby and Model View wouldn't work anymore, no more interactive objects in the scenery, lots of the MP System would be gone, ... Nasal is THE tool which makes FG development fun and adds nearly unlimited possibilities. If you need an example, look at the Bluebird animated walker, all done in Nasal. Greetings -- Detlef Faber http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot tuning
I can't read Nasal so I can't say if the function below is correct. For
what it is worth: A frequency between 108.100 and 111.950 (including end
points) is a localizer frequency if the first decimal is an odd number.
Jari
On 2010-01-28 04.45, Ron Jensen wrote:
On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 09:06 +, Pete Morgan wrote:
I just noticed the info below about localiser on the Flight Simulation
Naviagtion site
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/
Is there an easy way to determine is the NAV is a Lcoaliser, I cant see
that in Prop tree.
pete
Localizers are found on a few of the NAV frequencies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system#Frequency_list
Here is a nasal function to determine if a frequency is a localizer. It
accepts a frequency in megahertz and returns 1 if the frequency is an
ILS frequency.
var isILS=func(freq) {
if(freq 108.10) return 0;
if(freq 111.95) return 0;
var bar=int((freq+0.001)*10)-int(freq)*10;
return(bits.test(bar,0));
}
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
Roland wrote: And one thing more when I read the subject line which came across me: How many airplane developer will you loose if you remove the Nasal engine from FGFS because they can write Nasal code but not C++ code? Didn't you realize that this is just one single person spreading FUD in order to defend, well, actually close to nothing !? The point is: James is proposing to implement common, _fundamental_ logic and/or calculations in C++ and to offer a clean interface as part of the Nasal API to let modellers build upon that instead of having every model author wiring home grown code to achieve the same goal from ground up. Have you never seen people using 'function' libraries as an extension to scripting languages !? Not every Perl, Python, PHP programmer (just to name a few popular ones) is writing everything on the basis of nothing than the scope of the API which is implemented in the core Perl distribution. No, additional libraries are available which are thus not only defining a consistent API over various platforms but also quite often written in C/C++ in order to improve performance. It makes me really upset when people are trying to set development guidelines by posting willful disinformation. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
Why change the subject? James did not ask for deprecating Nasal, he
simply wanted to avoid multiple implementation of functionality. Less
error prone and if the available functionality does not fit ones need,
then fall back on Nasal (or C++).
Cheers,
Jari
On 2010-01-28 16.20, Ron Jensen wrote:
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 09:24 +, James Turner wrote:
On 28 Jan 2010, at 03:45, Ron Jensen wrote:
Here is a nasal function to determine if a frequency is a localizer. It
accepts a frequency in megahertz and returns 1 if the frequency is an
ILS frequency.
var isILS=func(freq) {
if(freq 108.10) return 0;
if(freq 111.95) return 0;
var bar=int((freq+0.001)*10)-int(freq)*10;
return(bits.test(bar,0));
}
A general observation - it'd be much better to request C++
properties / native-nasal functions that implement such logic, rather
than coding it up in Nasal (in each aircraft / instrument).
Actually, I disagree with this statement, and it represents a
fundamental shift in attitude from the way I've seen flightgear's
development progressing over the past year or two.
- Hard-coding every instrument in C++ instead of nasal means only
developers following/building the latest cvs head code get to use
whatever until the next release cycle.
- Hard coding every instrument/flight control in C++ means my WW-II
storch (et.al.) is stuck with an autobrake functionality it doesn't have
nor need.
- The pool of people with commit rights to C++ code is very, very small.
Thanks,
Ron
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot tuning
Nasal is like C, C++, perl, and php in many ways so if you can read any of
those, you should be pretty confident that what you think nasal is doing is
what it's actually doing. Writing nasal code from scratch is harder of
course because it requires knowledge of all the picky language syntax
details.
Curt.
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Jari Häkkinen wrote:
I can't read Nasal so I can't say if the function below is correct. For
what it is worth: A frequency between 108.100 and 111.950 (including end
points) is a localizer frequency if the first decimal is an odd number.
Jari
On 2010-01-28 04.45, Ron Jensen wrote:
On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 09:06 +, Pete Morgan wrote:
I just noticed the info below about localiser on the Flight Simulation
Naviagtion site
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/
Is there an easy way to determine is the NAV is a Lcoaliser, I cant see
that in Prop tree.
pete
Localizers are found on a few of the NAV frequencies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system#Frequency_list
Here is a nasal function to determine if a frequency is a localizer. It
accepts a frequency in megahertz and returns 1 if the frequency is an
ILS frequency.
var isILS=func(freq) {
if(freq 108.10) return 0;
if(freq 111.95) return 0;
var bar=int((freq+0.001)*10)-int(freq)*10;
return(bits.test(bar,0));
}
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
I think Ron started out with this subject line. I tried to change it, but
everyone is replying to the original thread. I don't think anyone is trying
to depricate nasal. They'd have a big fight on their hands if they did try!
Curt.
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Jari Häkkinen j...@flygarna.se wrote:
Why change the subject? James did not ask for deprecating Nasal, he
simply wanted to avoid multiple implementation of functionality. Less
error prone and if the available functionality does not fit ones need,
then fall back on Nasal (or C++).
Cheers,
Jari
On 2010-01-28 16.20, Ron Jensen wrote:
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 09:24 +, James Turner wrote:
On 28 Jan 2010, at 03:45, Ron Jensen wrote:
Here is a nasal function to determine if a frequency is a localizer.
It
accepts a frequency in megahertz and returns 1 if the frequency is an
ILS frequency.
var isILS=func(freq) {
if(freq 108.10) return 0;
if(freq 111.95) return 0;
var bar=int((freq+0.001)*10)-int(freq)*10;
return(bits.test(bar,0));
}
A general observation - it'd be much better to request C++
properties / native-nasal functions that implement such logic, rather
than coding it up in Nasal (in each aircraft / instrument).
Actually, I disagree with this statement, and it represents a
fundamental shift in attitude from the way I've seen flightgear's
development progressing over the past year or two.
- Hard-coding every instrument in C++ instead of nasal means only
developers following/building the latest cvs head code get to use
whatever until the next release cycle.
- Hard coding every instrument/flight control in C++ means my WW-II
storch (et.al.) is stuck with an autobrake functionality it doesn't have
nor need.
- The pool of people with commit rights to C++ code is very, very small.
Thanks,
Ron
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
Martin Spott wrote: [...] Not every Perl, Python, PHP programmer (just to name a few popular ones) is writing everything on the basis of nothing than the scope of the API which is implemented in the core Perl distribution. Oooops, Freudian slip ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Helicopter Flightsim Event
Hi, while searching for flightsim events I came across the Flight Simulator Convention at the Helicopter Museum in Weston Super Mare, North Somerset, United Kingdom. As FlightGear is being promoted (by some) as the most realistic heli sim of the three big players (MSFS, X-Plane and FG) it would be nice to showcase that in such a nice environment. Altough the event seems to be mainly heli-orientated, all kind of clubs, pretty much the same as in Lelystad, attend. This year's event takes place at 15 and 16 May. More info (altough I was unable to find out whether we have to pay for a stand) can be found at the website: http://www.fscweston.co.uk I can most likely not attend this event (would be a nice little trip though), but if anyone else lives nearby or just happens to be in the UK those days... Cheers, Gijs PS: Other events can be found/added at the wiki calender: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Current_events _ Een netbook met Windows 7? Hier vind je alles dat je moet weten. www.windows.nl/netbook-- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot tuning
For me the Nasal function looks strange. I can't understand what the
addition of 0.001 to freq does? For me it seems to be a waste of
precious CPU time.
Jari
On 2010-01-28 21.39, Curtis Olson wrote:
Nasal is like C, C++, perl, and php in many ways so if you can read any
of those, you should be pretty confident that what you think nasal is
doing is what it's actually doing. Writing nasal code from scratch is
harder of course because it requires knowledge of all the picky language
syntax details.
Curt.
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Jari Häkkinen wrote:
I can't read Nasal so I can't say if the function below is correct. For
what it is worth: A frequency between 108.100 and 111.950 (including end
points) is a localizer frequency if the first decimal is an odd number.
Jari
On 2010-01-28 04.45, Ron Jensen wrote:
On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 09:06 +, Pete Morgan wrote:
I just noticed the info below about localiser on the Flight
Simulation
Naviagtion site
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/
Is there an easy way to determine is the NAV is a Lcoaliser, I
cant see
that in Prop tree.
pete
Localizers are found on a few of the NAV frequencies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system#Frequency_list
Here is a nasal function to determine if a frequency is a
localizer. It
accepts a frequency in megahertz and returns 1 if the frequency
is an
ILS frequency.
var isILS=func(freq) {
if(freq 108.10) return 0;
if(freq 111.95) return 0;
var bar=int((freq+0.001)*10)-int(freq)*10;
return(bits.test(bar,0));
}
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Helicopter Flightsim Event
I just saw a show on TV about the Erickson Aircrane. The flightgear aircrane is spectacular. Maybe we could demonstrate building a 400m radio tower out of 10m sections (virtually) with it? I saw a real aircrane in person up close at Oshkosh last summer and was even more impressed with the detail level of the FlightGear model. Regards, Curt. On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Gijs de Rooy wrote: Hi, while searching for flightsim events I came across the Flight Simulator Convention at the *Helicopter Museum in Weston Super Mare, North Somerset, United Kingdom*. As FlightGear is being promoted (by some) as the most realistic heli sim of the three big players (MSFS, X-Plane and FG) it would be nice to showcase that in such a nice environment. Altough the event seems to be mainly heli-orientated, all kind of clubs, pretty much the same as in Lelystad, attend. This year's event takes place at *15 and 16 May*. More info (altough I was unable to find out whether we have to pay for a stand) can be found at the website: http://www.fscweston.co.uk I can most likely not attend this event (would be a nice little trip though), but if anyone else lives nearby or just happens to be in the UK those days... Cheers, Gijs PS: Other events can be found/added at the wiki calender: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Current_events -- De nieuwe Internet Explorer: sneller, eenvoudiger en veiliger dan ooit Download nu http://www.microsoft.nl/ie8 -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Atlas assert on apt.dat.gz
The new apt.dat.gz works for me. Thanks, Jari On 2010-01-28 11.17, Martin Spott wrote: Jari Häkkinen wrote: Atlas does not like the current apt.dat.gz because of string 'SOUTH' on line 119725: I've fixed hepilad name assignments for two airfields, please pull the current file from FlightGear's CVS and check if it's now working as expected. Actually this bunch of airfield improvements grew out of the need of doing _something_ wrt. collecting people's contributions and was never planned to grow that big :-) If this is going to continue, then I'll certainly be going to implement a proper solution which includes automated consistency checking - which it currently does not. Cheers, Martin. -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands
Csaba Halász schrieb: By the way, I think something should be done about 02. It is way too overused and seems to have some intermittent relaying problems (even though it is supposed to have IP filtering now). I don't know if the problems are caused by the overload or not, though. What do you think about renaming it to 12? Maybe we should be careful with such changes without contacting pigeon who is also running the mpmap02 server. Anyway number 11 and 12 are not listed in the map script (goes from 01 to 10 at the moment as I can see). -gral -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Featurerequest [VATSIM-Network PlugIn for Flightgear]
Hi @List Iam a Member of the German located VA-Airrescue Squadron. Right now we are flying with MSFS 9/10 (X) on VATSIM Virtual Airspace Systemgrid, using the Squeakbox and its Wrapper, the terrible FSIn PlugIn for the MSFS. VATSIM has almost 11 Million Virtual Pilots and follows realistic Procedures, ATC and Airtraffic Monitoring and Radio/Radar Controlling Guidlines. There are a lots of People out there planing to switch over to Flightgear, but there is no VATIM Protocoll Network Support like Sqeakbox or FSInn for Flightgear. Are there ways or ideas implementing VATSIM-Support or can i do something to make it happend? I think if Flightgear can connect into the VATSIM Network it will push and boost Flightgear a lot! Greetings from Stuttgart, Germany Peter __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Featurerequest [VATSIM-Network PlugIn for Flightgear]
AFAIK there's a person working on that, and we can't integrate VATSIM support on FG because of their NDA and obvious issues with the GPL. A proxy can be used to talk between FG and a VATSIM client, but no VATSIM code should be included with FG, only the proxy code. That's what that guy is doing. Hi @List Iam a Member of the German located VA-Airrescue Squadron. Right now we are flying with MSFS 9/10 (X) on VATSIM Virtual Airspace Systemgrid, using the Squeakbox and its Wrapper, the terrible FSIn PlugIn for the MSFS. VATSIM has almost 11 Million Virtual Pilots and follows realistic Procedures, ATC and Airtraffic Monitoring and Radio/Radar Controlling Guidlines. There are a lots of People out there planing to switch over to Flightgear, but there is no VATIM Protocoll Network Support like Sqeakbox or FSInn for Flightgear. Are there ways or ideas implementing VATSIM-Support or can i do something to make it happend? I think if Flightgear can connect into the VATSIM Network it will push and boost Flightgear a lot! Greetings from Stuttgart, Germany Peter __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:13 PM, HB-GRAL flightg...@sablonier.ch wrote: Csaba Halász schrieb: By the way, I think something should be done about 02. It is way too overused and seems to have some intermittent relaying problems (even though it is supposed to have IP filtering now). I don't know if the problems are caused by the overload or not, though. What do you think about renaming it to 12? Maybe we should be careful with such changes without contacting pigeon who is also running the mpmap02 server. Of course. He is reading this, I assume :) Also, I have mentioned the relay problems to him on IRC already. Anyway number 11 and 12 are not listed in the map script (goes from 01 to 10 at the moment as I can see). Not sure which script you mean, but 11 is up. -- Csaba/Jester -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Featurerequest [VATSIM-Network PlugIn for Flightgear]
Hi Vic, Thadt sounds verry good! Do you remember wich Guy is working on the VATSIM PlugIn and how i can find the Docs and Specs of the VATSIM Protocoll and where is the Projected in general located? Greetings from Stuttgart, Peter - Ursprüngliche Mail Von: Victhor Foster victhor.fos...@gmail.com An: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 28. Januar 2010, 23:20:38 Uhr Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Featurerequest [VATSIM-Network PlugIn for Flightgear] AFAIK there's a person working on that, and we can't integrate VATSIM support on FG because of their NDA and obvious issues with the GPL. A proxy can be used to talk between FG and a VATSIM client, but no VATSIM code should be included with FG, only the proxy code. That's what that guy is doing. Hi @List Iam a Member of the German located VA-Airrescue Squadron. Right now we are flying with MSFS 9/10 (X) on VATSIM Virtual Airspace Systemgrid, using the Squeakbox and its Wrapper, the terrible FSIn PlugIn for the MSFS. VATSIM has almost 11 Million Virtual Pilots and follows realistic Procedures, ATC and Airtraffic Monitoring and Radio/Radar Controlling Guidlines. There are a lots of People out there planing to switch over to Flightgear, but there is no VATIM Protocoll Network Support like Sqeakbox or FSInn for Flightgear. Are there ways or ideas implementing VATSIM-Support or can i do something to make it happend? I think if Flightgear can connect into the VATSIM Network it will push and boost Flightgear a lot! Greetings from Stuttgart, Germany Peter __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Featurerequest [VATSIM-Network PlugIn for Flightgear]
Yes, but he's working on a proxy app that interfaces with a VATSIM client called sb747. Hi Vic, Thadt sounds verry good! Do you remember wich Guy is working on the VATSIM PlugIn and how i can find the Docs and Specs of the VATSIM Protocoll and where is the Projected in general located? Greetings from Stuttgart, Peter - Ursprüngliche Mail Von: Victhor Foster victhor.fos...@gmail.com An: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 28. Januar 2010, 23:20:38 Uhr Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Featurerequest [VATSIM-Network PlugIn for Flightgear] AFAIK there's a person working on that, and we can't integrate VATSIM support on FG because of their NDA and obvious issues with the GPL. A proxy can be used to talk between FG and a VATSIM client, but no VATSIM code should be included with FG, only the proxy code. That's what that guy is doing. Hi @List Iam a Member of the German located VA-Airrescue Squadron. Right now we are flying with MSFS 9/10 (X) on VATSIM Virtual Airspace Systemgrid, using the Squeakbox and its Wrapper, the terrible FSIn PlugIn for the MSFS. VATSIM has almost 11 Million Virtual Pilots and follows realistic Procedures, ATC and Airtraffic Monitoring and Radio/Radar Controlling Guidlines. There are a lots of People out there planing to switch over to Flightgear, but there is no VATIM Protocoll Network Support like Sqeakbox or FSInn for Flightgear. Are there ways or ideas implementing VATSIM-Support or can i do something to make it happend? I think if Flightgear can connect into the VATSIM Network it will push and boost Flightgear a lot! Greetings from Stuttgart, Germany Peter __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 20:25 +, Martin Spott wrote: Roland wrote: And one thing more when I read the subject line which came across me: How many airplane developer will you loose if you remove the Nasal engine from FGFS because they can write Nasal code but not C++ code? Didn't you realize that this is just one single person spreading FUD in order to defend, well, actually close to nothing !? Oh, please. I offered a simple nasal function to check whether a frequency was an ILS frequency or not and James told me A general observation - it'd be much better to request C++ properties / native-nasal functions that implement such logic, rather than coding it up in Nasal If that isn't saying don't use nasal I don't know what a more direct way of saying don't use nasal would be. A basic problem with C++ functions is it is hard/impossible to override them for a special purpose. Writing in pure nasal allows function name hijacking and other tricks that can't be used on C++ code. The point is: James is proposing to implement common, _fundamental_ logic and/or calculations in C++ and to offer a clean interface as part of the Nasal API to let modellers build upon that instead of having every model author wiring home grown code to achieve the same goal from ground up. Have you never seen people using 'function' libraries as an extension to scripting languages !? We have an entire directory full of Nasal 'function' libraries now, and I'm quite happy using them instead of rolling my own duplicate functionality. It makes me really upset when people are trying to set development guidelines by posting willful disinformation. This is not willful disinformation it is a response to how I read James' e-mail response to me. Ron -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Deprecating Nasal?
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 21:39 +0100, Jari Häkkinen wrote: Why change the subject? James did not ask for deprecating Nasal, he simply wanted to avoid multiple implementation of functionality. Less error prone and if the available functionality does not fit ones need, then fall back on Nasal (or C++). Cheers, Jari I change the subject line because I was changing the subject of the discussion from Autopilot tuning to Nasal vs. C++ coding because I disagree with the general observation James offered. -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot tuning
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 21:21 +0100, Jari Häkkinen wrote: I can't read Nasal so I can't say if the function below is correct. For what it is worth: A frequency between 108.100 and 111.950 (including end points) is a localizer frequency if the first decimal is an odd number. Jari Right, that's what the function checks for. As far as I can tell the property instrumentation/nav/nav-loc requires the station to be in-range. When as you say, localizer frequencies are _always_ localizer frequencies. Ron -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot tuning
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 21:59 +0100, Jari Häkkinen wrote: For me the Nasal function looks strange. I can't understand what the addition of 0.001 to freq does? For me it seems to be a waste of precious CPU time. Jari var bar=int((freq+0.001)*10)-int(freq)*10; The 0.001 ensures we get the proper number since 'int' truncates and doesn't round. For example, 111.70 is stored internally as 111.6... since base 2 and base 10 don't play well together below the decimal point. int((111.69...)*10) returns 1116 when what was expected and desired was 1117. 0.001 is large enough to correct the result but small enough not to push us to the next station, station spacing is assumed at 0.05. (The same problem exists in C++.) Ron -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Flight Gear Education CD - 2020
The idea is to create a Distribution for use in schools. FG will hopefully be used in the following lessons. * Geography * Geology * Physics * Technical Drawing * Art * Drama * Cooking and food * Maths * woodwork * english To make it the DeFacto, we all need to get our act together. Thats the vision.. In my case Tywi Valley Training School, flying from tregib with a flight plan, terrain up the valley and back. get the drift.. I'd like to create a gener/tic project that we can all spawn off, with custom livery and terrain design. The objective is not that that far away, and would be adopted if the FG systems and distribution are steady eddie. Should the system take off, then we would have a huge bandwidth issues, which is why part of the package would be a local lan server. The local MP Server would be a sysadmin CD installed on a mashine, and contained within firewall. just a thought pete -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Money and Contributions
I would gladly make a contribution to FlightGear. My small contrib would be around £10 per quarter and I would expect this cash to go towards: * Maintaining servers online and similar Is that mechanism in place ? Is FlightGear.com TradeMark in place? Is there a way I can take FlightGear and create my own Value added and branded package, eg local Secondary School? Pete -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands
The MP conversation is interesting. Why should people choose between one or another MP Server : 1. Because it is written in the doc (Wiki, ...) 2. Because they check their latency from their location (which is the best option). 3. Because they choose it based on its location. I don't really know how this is handed in other games, but the easier would be : One domaine name to enter in the config file (mpserver.flightgear.org (no number). Then, following the latency, attribute the gamer to the proper mpserver. However, it is not that easy and has to be thought more thoroughly as there might be consequences on this. But that would be the easiest IMHO. - Mail Original - De: Csaba Halász csaba.hal...@gmail.com À: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé: Vendredi 29 Janvier 2010 00h06:54 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne Objet: Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:13 PM, HB-GRAL flightg...@sablonier.ch wrote: Csaba Halász schrieb: By the way, I think something should be done about 02. It is way too overused and seems to have some intermittent relaying problems (even though it is supposed to have IP filtering now). I don't know if the problems are caused by the overload or not, though. What do you think about renaming it to 12? Maybe we should be careful with such changes without contacting pigeon who is also running the mpmap02 server. Of course. He is reading this, I assume :) Also, I have mentioned the relay problems to him on IRC already. Anyway number 11 and 12 are not listed in the map script (goes from 01 to 10 at the moment as I can see). Not sure which script you mean, but 11 is up. -- Csaba/Jester -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Helicopter Flightsim Event
Hello, I just saw a show on TV about the Erickson Aircrane. The flightgear aircrane is spectacular. Maybe we could demonstrate building a 400m radio tower out of 10m sections (virtually) with it? I saw a real aircrane in person up close at Oshkosh last summer and was even more impressed with the detail level of the FlightGear model. Regards, Curt. I didn't know that we can lift objects in FGFS nowHow can we do that? __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands
Olivier JACQ wrote: The MP conversation is interesting. Why should people choose between one or another MP Server : 1. Because it is written in the doc (Wiki, ...) 2. Because they check their latency from their location (which is the best option). 3. Because they choose it based on its location. I don't really know how this is handed in other games, but the easier would be : One domaine name to enter in the config file (mpserver.flightgear.org (no number). Then, following the latency, attribute the gamer to the proper mpserver. I kinda agree as I've written and have the code for http://biasva.com/bias/ (and am thinking about to GPL this as a virtual airline application for FlightGear, ie livery, pilots and flightplans etc). Vatsim and IVAO contain (they had an argument so are similar forks) have a status.txt file to all the MP servers, and then one can pick one (with 5 minute update) http://usa-s1.vatsim.net/data/status.txt This was an issue as my algorithm in parsing above and an error decided to pick the first one always which led to being succesfully banned permerantly. This lead to a new algorithm that picked a server that did not include the first one (sighs). However in the FG scenario then its 10 frames per second and a slightly different role What I envisage it booting up Fg with --multiplay=auto I think the solution maybe would be to create and index of current MP servers online and their latency. That would allow flightgear as an application to decide and indeed to swap servers mid flight as circumstance applies. To create the Index server, I am already researching/playing using google appengine cloud, to maintain a global the index, however GAE does not accept sockets, and only TCP traffic. This however could be a patch on mpservers and status. ie keepalive psuedo. Using google appengine and its globally distribnuted by nature would accomodate this, and also would be light traffic. just a thought pete -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Helicopter Flightsim Event
My birthday is may 16.. and am near Swansea .. cunning flight plan coming... pete Gijs de Rooy wrote: Hi, while searching for flightsim events I came across the Flight Simulator Convention at the *Helicopter Museum in Weston Super Mare, North Somerset, United Kingdom*. As FlightGear is being promoted (by some) as the most realistic heli sim of the three big players (MSFS, X-Plane and FG) it would be nice to showcase that in such a nice environment. Altough the event seems to be mainly heli-orientated, all kind of clubs, pretty much the same as in Lelystad, attend. This year's event takes place at *15 and 16 May*. More info (altough I was unable to find out whether we have to pay for a stand) can be found at the website: http://www.fscweston.co.uk I can most likely not attend this event (would be a nice little trip though), but if anyone else lives nearby or just happens to be in the UK those days... Cheers, Gijs PS: Other events can be found/added at the wiki calender: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Current_events De nieuwe Internet Explorer: sneller, eenvoudiger en veiliger dan ooit Download nu http://www.microsoft.nl/ie8 -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] GUI dialogs suck
* they do not maintain last position * Cant be resized * label over flow spacing * no Validation on entry * Changes are sometimes immediate, even tapping in or deleting a figure, makes the entries applies to SIM REAL time key entry.. eg trying to change heading from 270 to 280, means removing the final O which makes aircraft head off to 27!!! * they display a float of 111.999 where only the last .999 is visible * the dialogs do not utilise the apply button Is there a cool resolution. I use the Qt toolkit daily, and that widget set would accomodate all above easily, including rendering and validation. However Qt is a platform and heavy for the purposes of FG Is there an alternative and can we evaluate. Pete -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new MP server / Netherlands
The easiest way for balancing serverload is, in my opinion, a round robin dns entry. So users simply connect to mpserver.flightgear.org, which resolvs to mpserver01, mpserver02 etc in round robin. A more sophisticated solution is, that the server checks the connecting client IP and sends back a connect to mpserverXX message to the client based on IANA/RIPE/APNIC etc IP-lists. However, this needs greater changes to the server code. Btw: there are two pages showing active servers: http://mpmap01.flightgear.org/mpstatus lists all servers configured as relays of mpserver01 http://pigeond.net/flightgear/mpstatus/ lists all servers hardcoded into the scripts Regards, Oliver -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
