Re: [Flightgear-devel] deteriorating cull performance kills fps
Hi, On Wednesday, December 21, 2011 21:25:11 Csaba Halász wrote: Seems to be gone now :) Ok. So, still I could not easily reproduce... Any comments for my other question, about background model loading? Well, models *are* loaded in the background. More than it was in the good old times where just the scenery tiles were loaded in the background, but not the aircraft/multiplayer/ai models. The only thing that I can observe with model loading is tht the nvidia binary driver takes a long time to generate mipmaps. This still happens in the main thread. And this is something we leave to the driver which is IMO the best way to handle this since the driver should know how to do that best. I thought for a long time that the hardware could not do better, also since the binary ATI driver takes even longer to upload and build the textures. But since some time I just use the open source ati driver here and I could see how fast texture upload and rendering mipmaps could happen. So, I am not sure if I would recomment the open source driver variants for ati today. In fact they still have various merrits and the performance is not as good as the closed source drivers performance. But at least texture upload does *not* take long time here - with the same hardware where it takes up to seconds with fglrx... May be we can do something here also, but not for the current release cycle and probably not for fgfs core. So, merry christmas! Mathias -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Debugging an Ati shaders issue (with 3d textures, again)
Hi, On Friday, December 23, 2011 17:05:03 James Turner wrote: == glValidateProgram FAILED id=12 contextID=0 infolog: Validation Failed: Sampler error: Samplers of different types use the same texture image unit. - or - A sampler's texture unit is out of range (greater than max allowed or negative). OpenGL extension 'GL_EXT_texture3D' is not supported. === Just a quick answer: Make sure the shaders effect files have ths extenstion correctly tested. Then, fgfs should disable these shaders and the errors are gone. In the end, the driver tells you that it does not support this feature by not announcing this in the extension string/having an apropriate gl version. We probably fail to detect that properly, and tell the driver to do that dispite of the extension string. And as a result the driver just bails out - it could not do different ... And no, this is not ATI specific, it is just that by accident your ATI driver misses something that you tell it to just do - which just could not work with any driver on any hardware. Thie required extensions are in the effect files. Whatever changes are done with the shaders, the effect files *must* contain the minimum condition under which gl version/extensions this shader is valid. This is complex, but the only way to make that run portable. merry christmas Mathias -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing Project Rembrandt
Fred, On Sunday, December 18, 2011 10:18:39 Frederic Bouvier wrote: Your patronage will be welcome. Ok. My problem is that I have too many open projects currently. So, promising to help here is something I cannot do today. But Sure, if you have questions feel free to ask. But I currently cannot invest much concrete work into this. I will in any case come back to you and this changes for fgviewer. This was the code where I wanted to introduce a different fog/sky algorithm that will decouple the atmospehric computations from the actual models. This is also something that requires rendering the actual scene into a set of fbos and was thought as a prework for what you are doing now. But I am completely happy with an other approach. I just see that we will need this kind of stuff. So, may be just one question for what you have done already again without looking into any code: You do not require float textures? As far as I can see, there is a patent issue on this extension and usually this is not strictly required. Using a fixed point representation that makes use of the usual depth buffer - one that scales differently than the usualy perspective depth - could be used instead and I think we should use this in the end. In the end this really gives even better accuracy than a float representation since floats waste some bits for the expontent, where a fixed point representation could just use all the bits for accuracy. Appart from that: merry christmas! Mathias -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Debugging an Ati shaders issue (with 3d textures, again)
On 24 Dec 2011, at 08:32, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Thie required extensions are in the effect files. Whatever changes are done with the shaders, the effect files *must* contain the minimum condition under which gl version/extensions this shader is valid. This is complex, but the only way to make that run portable. According to this, there should be no extension required: http://lists.apple.com/archives/mac-opengl/2007/Oct/msg00108.html And 'glxinfo' reports: OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc. OpenGL renderer string: ATI Radeon HD 5770 OpenGL Engine OpenGL version string: 2.1 ATI-7.12.9 OpenGL shading language version string: 1.20 (and no 3D texturing extension token) Do we have a minimum OpenGL version requirement? 1.3 vs 1.4 vs 2.0? Hmmm. James -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Debugging an Ati shaders issue (with 3d textures, again)
On Sat, 2011-12-24 at 10:12 +, James Turner wrote: On 24 Dec 2011, at 08:32, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Thie required extensions are in the effect files. Whatever changes are done with the shaders, the effect files *must* contain the minimum condition under which gl version/extensions this shader is valid. This is complex, but the only way to make that run portable. According to this, there should be no extension required: http://lists.apple.com/archives/mac-opengl/2007/Oct/msg00108.html And 'glxinfo' reports: OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc. OpenGL renderer string: ATI Radeon HD 5770 OpenGL Engine OpenGL version string: 2.1 ATI-7.12.9 OpenGL shading language version string: 1.20 (and no 3D texturing extension token) Do we have a minimum OpenGL version requirement? 1.3 vs 1.4 vs 2.0? glxinfo: OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 9600 GT/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW! OpenGL version string: 2.1.2 NVIDIA 173.14.22 glxinfo | grep 3D OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 9600 GT/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW! GL_EXT_stencil_two_side, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_texture3D, But then again: http://developer.amd.com/archive/radeonarchives/RadeonSampleCode/EXT_texture3D-Extension/Pages/default.aspx The Radeon® has full support for EXT_texture3D, which is a required feature for OpenGL® 1.2 compliance. Odd. Erik -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Debugging an Ati shaders issue (with 3d textures, again)
Hi, On Saturday, December 24, 2011 11:12:10 James Turner wrote: According to this, there should be no extension required: http://lists.apple.com/archives/mac-opengl/2007/Oct/msg00108.html And 'glxinfo' reports: OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc. OpenGL renderer string: ATI Radeon HD 5770 OpenGL Engine OpenGL version string: 2.1 ATI-7.12.9 OpenGL shading language version string: 1.20 (and no 3D texturing extension token) I don't know that off hands. I would also think that the relevant docs for that is the OpenGL standard documents or the extension specification documents. both from kronos. Do we have a minimum OpenGL version requirement? 1.3 vs 1.4 vs 2.0? No, we don't. And the current code should be able to render well on pretty old versions. Even if some shaders dont' work, the old fixed function stuff should still give fine pictures. At least if the extension requirements are correct in the effect files. So, not sure if there is something we can do to make the 3d textures work on apple. Could you also double check if the osg extension check works correctly on your install? May be by just stepping into that with the debuger? That could also explain the error message you postet. That one looks to me like the texture is not found by the linker. May be because of some part of the code not setting the texture state for this texture?! Greetings Mathias -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On Friday, December 23, 2011 06:22:35 PM Pedro Morgan wrote: Is there a way we can work towards a more accessible multiplayer enviroment for next year + snip ATC == chat.. we need to look at skype. android and speakers with text to sound.. We alrady have fgcom - no need for skype since fgcom has integration with FG so that things like changing the freq. on the in sim com radio(s) causes fgcom to connect to a different channel and it also trys to simulate radio propagation. Is fgcom perfect? No it still needs work but it would be a lot of work to figure out how to get skype to do what fgcom already does and that same amount of effort could significantly improve fgcom. I don't see the point in moving to skype. There is alread some text to sound support using the festival text to speach engine. Festival works on a wide range of systems (Windows, Linux and Mac) although I don't know if it works on android. The text to speach support is primitive at best but I don't personnally think this is a big issue since IMHO the text chat feature in FG should be removed in favor of real voice communications via fgcom. After all few if any aircraft have text chat capabilities but almost all aircraft have com radios. snip Hal -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Ok here's the scenario.. I'm a kid and taken off in a 747 and need some real world kinda help to land for teens... Problem with FG is that it needs to simulate a bit more.. and not be a long winded things snip ATC == chat.. we need to look at skype. android and speakers with text to sound.. We alrady have fgcom - no need for skype since fgcom has integration with FG so that things like changing the freq. on the in sim com radio(s) causes fgcom to connect to a different channel and it also trys to simulate radio propagation. Is fgcom perfect? No it still needs work but it would be a lot of work to figure out how to get skype to do what fgcom already does and that same amount of effort could significantly improve fgcom. I don't see the point in moving to skype. Indeed 1000% of above... agreed.. problem is that I want to control the kids downstairs and do do that I can use any comms system I want.. eg holding nose and saying in ATc voice.. down a toilet roll.. Turn left heading 295 .. decend and maintain 30 ft ,... etc.. At the end of the day its a VOIP server.. and is it peer to peer.. We need to get into the peer to peer and local networks more.. Make and easy install system and some sponshorship.. aas VOIP ==bandwidth == Money at the end fo the day.. is reality.. Skype, Asterix and Goggle talk are various platform..which potentially we can link into.. Maybe we can create a FGCOM virtual machine with amazon.. and others international.. There is alread some text to sound support using the festival text to speach engine. Festival works on a wide range of systems (Windows, Linux and Mac) although I don't know if it works on android. The text to speach support is primitive at best but I don't personnally think this is a big issue since IMHO the text chat feature in FG should be removed in favor of real voice communications via fgcom. After all few if any aircraft have text chat capabilities but almost all aircraft have com radios. What the Sim missing at the moment is some real ATC... We can create that with a STAR and SID patterns and is and ATC exersice.. Indeed the problem is that FG is all about the pilots and it actually needs some ATC to make it more real.. Vatsim is a network, ivao is another.. Fg has all the flight side worked out.. maybe we need some zones of control.. both for the benefit of new pilots who wanna fly.. and pilots who do international and long range nav et all.. Certainly chatting to a russian aircraft AN225 and quided into london with a few smaller ones around tickles the OAT.. Whats the protocol anyway ?? love u all pedro snip Hal -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On Saturday, December 24, 2011 04:07:06 PM Pedro Morgan wrote: Ok here's the scenario.. I'm a kid and taken off in a 747 and need some real world kinda help to land for teens... Problem with FG is that it needs to simulate a bit more.. and not be a long winded things snip ATC == chat.. we need to look at skype. android and speakers with text to sound.. We alrady have fgcom - no need for skype since fgcom has integration with FG so that things like changing the freq. on the in sim com radio(s) causes fgcom to connect to a different channel and it also trys to simulate radio propagation. Is fgcom perfect? No it still needs work but it would be a lot of work to figure out how to get skype to do what fgcom already does and that same amount of effort could significantly improve fgcom. I don't see the point in moving to skype. Indeed 1000% of above... agreed.. problem is that I want to control the kids downstairs and do do that I can use any comms system I want.. eg holding nose and saying in ATc voice.. down a toilet roll.. Turn left heading 295 .. decend and maintain 30 ft ,... etc.. At the end of the day its a VOIP server.. and is it peer to peer.. We need to get into the peer to peer and local networks more.. You can do this today with fgcom. Just setup a fgcom server on your local upstairs machine and you are good to go. You don't even need FG running to use fgcom to communicate with other users on your network. Make and easy install system and some sponshorship.. aas VOIP ==bandwidth == Money at the end fo the day.. is reality.. Skype, Asterix and Goggle talk are various platform..which potentially we can link into.. Maybe we can create a FGCOM virtual machine with amazon.. and others international.. There is alread some text to sound support using the festival text to speach engine. Festival works on a wide range of systems (Windows, Linux and Mac) although I don't know if it works on android. The text to speach support is primitive at best but I don't personnally think this is a big issue since IMHO the text chat feature in FG should be removed in favor of real voice communications via fgcom. After all few if any aircraft have text chat capabilities but almost all aircraft have com radios. What the Sim missing at the moment is some real ATC... We can create that with a STAR and SID patterns and is and ATC exersice.. Indeed the problem is that FG is all about the pilots and it actually needs some ATC to make it more real.. FG already has an ATC aircraft. What has been missing is people who are willing to send the time needed to setup a working ATC system for more than an hour or two at one or two airports using the existing tools. One of the issues is that fgcom is an addin and as a result ATC is broken out of the box since most (particularly new) pilots do not have a working com radio (IE. fgcom is not installed/running). Vatsim is a network, ivao is another.. Fg has all the flight side worked out.. I think there is already a Vatsim add in available for FG. maybe we need some zones of control.. both for the benefit of new pilots who wanna fly.. and pilots who do international and long range nav et all.. Certainly chatting to a russian aircraft AN225 and quided into london with a few smaller ones around tickles the OAT.. Whats the protocol anyway ?? For what part? Most of this is UDP packets using a FG specific format. I think this is described on one of the FG wiki pages. You should be able to google it. love u all pedro snip Hal - - Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Am 25.12.11 01:59, schrieb Hal V. Engel: You can do this today with fgcom. Just setup a fgcom server on your local upstairs machine and you are good to go. You don't even need FG running to use fgcom to communicate with other users on your network. Hi Hal Can you point me to docs how to setup a fgcom server ? I didn’t find it at all, and it looks like FlightGear has only one FGCom server, one radio station at all. Cheers, Yves -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Yes am very interested in fgcom.. particular how to set up a server and clients.. even the fgcom without the FG dependance.. ie no FG install.. just a lighweight radar client.. and VOIP .. Is there even an index of fgcom servers.. but am extemely interested in this area.. pete On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 1:05 AM, HB-GRAL flightg...@sablonier.ch wrote: Am 25.12.11 01:59, schrieb Hal V. Engel: You can do this today with fgcom. Just setup a fgcom server on your local upstairs machine and you are good to go. You don't even need FG running to use fgcom to communicate with other users on your network. Hi Hal Can you point me to docs how to setup a fgcom server ? I didn’t find it at all, and it looks like FlightGear has only one FGCom server, one radio station at all. Cheers, Yves -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
