Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: ALERT: Losing the DAFIF
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:26:54 -, Jim wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Melchior FRANZ said: > > > * Peter L -- Saturday 14 August 2004 07:31: > > > > That's a bit euphemistic. > > > > > Yeah, I was a bit more polite than normal. Just put it down to not > > > knowing you guys yet... > > > > No problem. And I didn't want to make it sound as if you pardoned a > > criminal. :-) > > > > I just wanted to make clear that this was *not* "some unaware pilot" > > who "cuts the cable". He knew the cable was there. He wanted to fly > > under it and make a nice film, which was common practice in this > > unit at Aviano/Italy. Even their commander did it (and lost his > > command because of that). > > > > The cable was around 85 to 95 m AGL (~300 ft), and the minimum > > altitude allowed in this area was 150 m (~500 ft) at this time. This > > was afterwards raised to 600 m (~2000 ft). ..up here (Northern Norway), this was accepted by us (civilians and servicemen alike) as an evil neccessary to national security, until the Russians defeated and threw out the Soviet Union. ..then, the pro-EU types _continued_ this cover-up practice. The scale, methods etc of these cover-up stories is comparable to covering up genocide. ..and, the same people argued "we muuust join the EU because Norway is such a vulnerable little oil sheikhdom just next to the Russian Bear". Just who cancelled WWIII on us? > > Ref.: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9803/10/italian.crash.report/ > > The U.S. Marine motto is "The few, the proud", not "the most > intelligent" :-) > > I think "the few" is important. Unfortunately, it's hard to train > folks to be potential killers, and expect civility and common sense > to always prevail. ..in warfare, you wanna wound, not kill, a femur hit 2/3 up the thigh is the ideal, it's scary and hurts like hell, so you'll wet your pants, it'll put you the enemy GI in hospital for about half a year and out of action for the next half, and leaves no permanent damage, so it, and the alternatives, teaches you, my enemy GI, to move, predictably. ;-) ..and, just how many of your buddies carries your strecher, etc? ;-) Killing is counter productive in combat and warfare and Always a Sin. > We've got a training field nearby and this is a fairly rural area. I > can say that I haven't seen anything marginal come from there. The > private jets are another story. I'm amazed at the crap they get away > with over the Maine woods. ..scooping leaves as jet fuel? ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: ALERT: Losing the DAFIF
Melchior FRANZ said: > * Peter L -- Saturday 14 August 2004 07:31: > > > That's a bit euphemistic. > > > Yeah, I was a bit more polite than normal. Just put it down to not knowing > > you guys yet... > > No problem. And I didn't want to make it sound as if you pardoned a criminal. :-) > > I just wanted to make clear that this was *not* "some unaware pilot" who "cuts the > cable". He knew the cable was there. He wanted to fly under it and make a nice > film, which was common practice in this unit at Aviano/Italy. Even their > commander did it (and lost his command because of that). > > The cable was around 85 to 95 m AGL (~300 ft), and the minimum altitude allowed > in this area was 150 m (~500 ft) at this time. This was afterwards raised > to 600 m (~2000 ft). > > m. > > > Ref.: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9803/10/italian.crash.report/ The U.S. Marine motto is "The few, the proud", not "the most intelligent" :-) I think "the few" is important. Unfortunately, it's hard to train folks to be potential killers, and expect civility and common sense to always prevail. We've got a training field nearby and this is a fairly rural area. I can say that I haven't seen anything marginal come from there. The private jets are another story. I'm amazed at the crap they get away with over the Maine woods. And then of course there are the cruise missle tests... Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: ALERT: Losing the DAFIF
Melchior FRANZ said: > * Peter L -- Saturday 14 August 2004 05:14: > > > Was it the USAF? I couldn't remember anymore, just that it happened.. > > > > Actually, marines. Very unfortunate accident in clear weather in 1998 in > > Italy. US marine training flight, the plane returned with some damage. > > > > The route was a well used one, but it appears they flew lower than normal. > > That's a bit euphemistic. They flew lower than allowed, against clear orders. > And the pilot filmed the whole thing to show off to his friends (IIRC). Despite > killing 20(?) people the fines were AFAIK ridiculously low. He would have > sat a few years in prison in most legal systems ... > There were no fines. The official line: http://www.dod.gov/news/Feb1998/n02101998_9802105.html The media: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june99/marines_2-3.html http://www.cnn.com/US/9902/26/marines.cable.car.02/ The result: http://www.cnn.com/US/9903/04/marines.cablecar.03/ Back to Erik's original comment: note that if the information regarding the charting of the cable was _key_ to the defense in this case. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: ALERT: Losing the DAFIF
* Peter L -- Saturday 14 August 2004 07:31: > > That's a bit euphemistic. > Yeah, I was a bit more polite than normal. Just put it down to not knowing > you guys yet... No problem. And I didn't want to make it sound as if you pardoned a criminal. :-) I just wanted to make clear that this was *not* "some unaware pilot" who "cuts the cable". He knew the cable was there. He wanted to fly under it and make a nice film, which was common practice in this unit at Aviano/Italy. Even their commander did it (and lost his command because of that). The cable was around 85 to 95 m AGL (~300 ft), and the minimum altitude allowed in this area was 150 m (~500 ft) at this time. This was afterwards raised to 600 m (~2000 ft). m. Ref.: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9803/10/italian.crash.report/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: ALERT: Losing the DAFIF
> > That's a bit euphemistic. They flew lower than allowed, against clear orders. > And the pilot filmed the whole thing to show off to his friends (IIRC). Despite > killing 20(?) people the fines were AFAIK ridiculously low. He would have > sat a few years in prison in most legal systems ... > Yeah, I was a bit more polite than normal. Just put it down to not knowing you guys yet... Peter ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: ALERT: Losing the DAFIF
* Peter L -- Saturday 14 August 2004 05:14: > > Was it the USAF? I couldn't remember anymore, just that it happened.. > > Actually, marines. Very unfortunate accident in clear weather in 1998 in > Italy. US marine training flight, the plane returned with some damage. > > The route was a well used one, but it appears they flew lower than normal. That's a bit euphemistic. They flew lower than allowed, against clear orders. And the pilot filmed the whole thing to show off to his friends (IIRC). Despite killing 20(?) people the fines were AFAIK ridiculously low. He would have sat a few years in prison in most legal systems ... m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
