RE: Just a stupid question ... =P
To all FOP developers: We are pleased to offer that, anyone in the FOP team who can fix this memory problem of FOP could contact us and we make a contract with him/her for fixing this bug. Regards Ali Farahani [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Victor Mote [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 4:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Just a stupid question ... =P Thomas Sporbeck wrote: I'm far from understanding FOP deep enough to implement this feature/change (in that way source is source wether it's open or not and it's not easy to join such a project), just: if so many people have problems at the same point, perhaps someone of the masters of FOP has the time (and we all know how expensive free time is) to describe how to implement it or tell us if anyone already has implemented it. As fas as I understood there is a solution for the problem (J. Pietschmann's suggestion) but the developers have different opinions wether to realize it or not - or am I wrong? (Disclaimer -- I don't want anyone to think I am pretending to be a master of FOP). I think you have confused two things. The fix that J. Pietschmann referred to had to do specifically with tables: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fop-devm=105768455829389w=2 AFAIK, there is no controversy among the developers about implementing his fix. It is a matter of timing. We are in a code freeze right now until the 0.20.5 release is finished, then such things can be added to code again. Even if it is never released, at least you should be able to get access to it from CVS. The point of this thread (the one on which we are now conversing) was more general, and had to do with the possibility of more FOP-controlled disk i/o for the purpose of handling larger documents, regardless of whether tables were involved or not. Again, I think everyone understands that you've got to write to disk. We are still sorting out some control issues that need attention because they may affect where and how the disk i/o gets done. There are some issues that do need to be resolved here: 1) If you automatically start writing everything, the guy with plenty of memory is going to pay a performance penalty, 2) In any other case, some entity has to decide when to start writing. There is a possibility that we can get java (1.4 or greater) to do this thinking for us, but I am not sure. If FOP has to make the decisions, it will have to know how much memory is available, how much is used, etc. to manage this process properly. It isn't quite as easy as saying if so many people have problems at the same point There are probably a lot of people that want a free ride to the moon, but that really doesn't make it any more feasible to get them there. There are some fundamental issues that have to be resolved first. If you can help resolve them, please do so. If not, then be patient, or, as you suggested, find another solution. Victor Mote - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Just a stupid question ... =P
Ok, I see. There are probably a lot of people that want a free ride to the moon, but that really doesn't make it any more feasible to get them there. I think the main problem is to get them back alive vbg Thomas Sporbeck - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a stupid question ... =P
Le Vendredi, 11 juil 2003, à 18:50 Europe/Zurich, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : ...But we hav to generate a big catalog (more than 1 000 pages) and FOP throws a OutOfMemoryException after 700~800 pages (depends on the number of images integrated) Most probably, making more memory available to the JVM that runs FOP would solve your problem. With Sun's JVMs this is done by adding -Xmx to the JVM command line, for example -Xmx 512m to make the JVM use 512 megabytes max. -- Bertrand Delacretaz independent consultant, Lausanne, Switzerland http://cvs.apache.org/~bdelacretaz/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Just a stupid question ... =P
OK, but what happens if you have 60 workstations with maximum 256 MB RAM!!!? Are you saying that we should go and buy 60 256 RAM just for this stupid bug of FOP!! I am going to loose my trust to Open Source projects and Apache ! -Original Message- From: Bertrand Delacretaz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 11:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just a stupid question ... =P Le Vendredi, 11 juil 2003, à 18:50 Europe/Zurich, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : ...But we hav to generate a big catalog (more than 1 000 pages) and FOP throws a OutOfMemoryException after 700~800 pages (depends on the number of images integrated) Most probably, making more memory available to the JVM that runs FOP would solve your problem. With Sun's JVMs this is done by adding -Xmx to the JVM command line, for example -Xmx 512m to make the JVM use 512 megabytes max. -- Bertrand Delacretaz independent consultant, Lausanne, Switzerland http://cvs.apache.org/~bdelacretaz/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a stupid question ... =P
Hey, you are very much invited to help solve this problem. OpenSource is not just a shop where everything is free and at the same time worth the equivalent of a 100'000 USD including high-grade support for another 10K a year. Do you actually realize how OpenSource works? Here at FOP we're almost exclusively people who work on FOP in their free time without being backed by an employer who sees the benefit of contributing back to an OpenSource project. There are other projects at Apache where a big company is backing a team of developers to work on the software. Not so at FOP. We would all like to contribute more to the project but in the end you have to find time to do it and you've got to buy something to eat. If you think this is a stupid bug, then my all means sit down and try to fix it. You'll end up with a huge pile of work. We're addressing the issue in our redesign effort along with a lot of other problems. But that obviously takes a while. Thank you for understanding. Betrand's tip implies the following: Increasing the maximum VM size will result in swapping done by the operating system if there's not enough memory. This will have an enormous impact on performance but you'll have a good chance of getting the PDF without an OutOfMemoryError. It's a tip, not a cookbook recipe. By the way, there are lots of other tips on the website to reduce memory usage. On 12.07.2003 10:00:34 ali farahani wrote: OK, but what happens if you have 60 workstations with maximum 256 MB RAM!!!? Are you saying that we should go and buy 60 256 RAM just for this stupid bug of FOP!! I am going to loose my trust to Open Source projects and Apache ! Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a stupid question ... =P
Le Samedi, 12 juil 2003, à 10:27 Europe/Zurich, Jeremias Maerki a écrit : lots-of-good-stuff-snipped/ ...If you think this is a stupid bug, then my all means sit down and try to fix it +1, I could not agree more ;-) -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a stupid question ... =P
I think there's no need to quarrel. If you don't love the product you'd just take another an won't comment it. I'm far from understanding FOP deep enough to implement this feature/change (in that way source is source wether it's open or not and it's not easy to join such a project), just: if so many people have problems at the same point, perhaps someone of the masters of FOP has the time (and we all know how expensive free time is) to describe how to implement it or tell us if anyone already has implemented it. As fas as I understood there is a solution for the problem (J. Pietschmann's suggestion) but the developers have different opinions wether to realize it or not - or am I wrong? Thomas Sporbeck ___ Ursprüngliche Nachricht Absender: Bertrand Delacretaz mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet am: 12.07.2003 20:25:14 Betreff: Re: Just a stupid question ... =P Le Samedi, 12 juil 2003, à 10:27 Europe/Zurich, Jeremias Maerki a écrit : lots-of-good-stuff-snipped/ ...If you think this is a stupid bug, then my all means sit down and try to fix it +1, I could not agree more ;-) -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Just a stupid question ... =P
Thomas Sporbeck wrote: I'm far from understanding FOP deep enough to implement this feature/change (in that way source is source wether it's open or not and it's not easy to join such a project), just: if so many people have problems at the same point, perhaps someone of the masters of FOP has the time (and we all know how expensive free time is) to describe how to implement it or tell us if anyone already has implemented it. As fas as I understood there is a solution for the problem (J. Pietschmann's suggestion) but the developers have different opinions wether to realize it or not - or am I wrong? (Disclaimer -- I don't want anyone to think I am pretending to be a master of FOP). I think you have confused two things. The fix that J. Pietschmann referred to had to do specifically with tables: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fop-devm=105768455829389w=2 AFAIK, there is no controversy among the developers about implementing his fix. It is a matter of timing. We are in a code freeze right now until the 0.20.5 release is finished, then such things can be added to code again. Even if it is never released, at least you should be able to get access to it from CVS. The point of this thread (the one on which we are now conversing) was more general, and had to do with the possibility of more FOP-controlled disk i/o for the purpose of handling larger documents, regardless of whether tables were involved or not. Again, I think everyone understands that you've got to write to disk. We are still sorting out some control issues that need attention because they may affect where and how the disk i/o gets done. There are some issues that do need to be resolved here: 1) If you automatically start writing everything, the guy with plenty of memory is going to pay a performance penalty, 2) In any other case, some entity has to decide when to start writing. There is a possibility that we can get java (1.4 or greater) to do this thinking for us, but I am not sure. If FOP has to make the decisions, it will have to know how much memory is available, how much is used, etc. to manage this process properly. It isn't quite as easy as saying if so many people have problems at the same point There are probably a lot of people that want a free ride to the moon, but that really doesn't make it any more feasible to get them there. There are some fundamental issues that have to be resolved first. If you can help resolve them, please do so. If not, then be patient, or, as you suggested, find another solution. Victor Mote - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Just a stupid question ... =P
Dear Thomas Sporbeck I am very happy to see lots of replies to my HOT statements. The reason behind talking like that is I have this Out Of Memory problem since 4 month ago and it seemed no body is taking this serious. As a person who knows the value of such an Open Source Projects (no money projects!) I wanted to inform FOP lovers that: be careful! We are trying to convince the end users that they should invest on Open source projects. In doing so we have to show them how stable, trustable and robust these open source projects could be. By the way, this solution that lots of people are talking about (increasing the Heap Size) is not working! We have tried 600 MB heap size on a Machine with 1GB RAM!! Still with 50 pages report we have Out Of Memory. We are a development team, and we would try to find the reason behind this issue. If we could solve it we give it to FOP development team by pleasure. Ali Farahani -Original Message- From: Thomas Sporbeck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 10:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just a stupid question ... =P I think there's no need to quarrel. If you don't love the product you'd just take another an won't comment it. I'm far from understanding FOP deep enough to implement this feature/change (in that way source is source wether it's open or not and it's not easy to join such a project), just: if so many people have problems at the same point, perhaps someone of the masters of FOP has the time (and we all know how expensive free time is) to describe how to implement it or tell us if anyone already has implemented it. As fas as I understood there is a solution for the problem (J. Pietschmann's suggestion) but the developers have different opinions wether to realize it or not - or am I wrong? Thomas Sporbeck ___ Ursprüngliche Nachricht Absender: Bertrand Delacretaz mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet am: 12.07.2003 20:25:14 Betreff: Re: Just a stupid question ... =P Le Samedi, 12 juil 2003, à 10:27 Europe/Zurich, Jeremias Maerki a écrit : lots-of-good-stuff-snipped/ ...If you think this is a stupid bug, then my all means sit down and try to fix it +1, I could not agree more ;-) -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Just a stupid question ... =P
Hello guys @ fop-dev !Firstable, congratulation for your work on the fop API, we are using it here for 6 monthes now and it is a real success from the user point of view !!!I work for a french TV Channel (so excuse my english) and we use FOP to generate catalogs of our programs. Until right now, we had no memory problem because we generated catalog of 300~400 pages on a 1Go RAM server.But we hav to generate a big catalog (more than 1 000 pages) and FOP throws a OutOfMemoryException after 700~800 pages (depends on the number of images integrated). So here's come the first stupid question : is there a way to make FOP swap on hard drive for big document generation (we don't care about the time it takes to generate our catalogs), if not, can you explain me why ? Do you know if XEP can swap on drive ?And here's my second question, if the first response is "no", do you think we will be able to generate our monstruously big catalog if we add 2Go RAM on our server ?Thanks forward for you responses, and congratulations again.Symon
