Re: XMLGraphics temp site up

[Clay Leeds]

On Nov 8, 2004, at 11:20 AM, Thomas DeWeese wrote:
Clay Leeds wrote:
I've attached a slightly (very rough!) modified version which gives 
an idea of what I think may work better. Namely, the paper is curled 
in a different direction, so the XML on the 'back side' is 
horizontal, making it more readable. Although it's not 'true' (i.e., 
the text would actually look more like yours), I think the 
readability outweighs the suspension of disbelief :-).
   I'll try and work on it, but I'm awfully busy right now.
I don't see this as a showstopper, so take your time. We can always 
update the logo when we tire of the 'old' one. :-) In fact, we don't 
even have the domain stuff ironed out yet (although it's forthcoming).

Since you're using Illustrator for your version, I'm hoping you could 
make it even better using the source files. Still, I do like the 
batikBatik.png theme.
On a related note, I'm having trouble when I open batikBatik.svg[1]. 
The image is almost all on one layer (one of the leaves has handles 
and can be moved). Any ideas?
   This is sort of the way the document is created.  The fill is a
rect that covers the canvas, and it is made to look like a leaf with
a clip-path.  Also there is some grouping going on so you need to
ungroup to get to some stuff.  My oldish version of Illustrator drops
some of the fill content :/
My mistake. I figured it out. I clicked in the document window 
(selecting the entire graphic plus the leaf), and then looked for 
"Ungroup" in the Object menu, which was inactive/gray. However, I 
deselecting the graphic, and doing a Select-All. I needed to choose 
Select > Next Object Below.

Sorry for the 'waste' of time.
Web Maestro Clay
--
Clay Leeds - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Webmaster/Developer - Medata, Inc. - 
PGP Public Key: 

Re: XMLGraphics temp site up

[Thomas DeWeese]

Clay Leeds wrote:
I've attached a slightly (very rough!) modified version which gives an 
idea of what I think may work better. Namely, the paper is curled in a 
different direction, so the XML on the 'back side' is horizontal, making 
it more readable. Although it's not 'true' (i.e., the text would 
actually look more like yours), I think the readability outweighs the 
suspension of disbelief :-).
   I'll try and work on it, but I'm awfully busy right now.
Since you're using Illustrator for your version, I'm hoping you could 
make it even better using the source files. Still, I do like the 
batikBatik.png theme.

On a related note, I'm having trouble when I open batikBatik.svg[1]. The 
image is almost all on one layer (one of the leaves has handles and can 
be moved). Any ideas?
   This is sort of the way the document is created.  The fill is a
rect that covers the canvas, and it is made to look like a leaf with
a clip-path.  Also there is some grouping going on so you need to
ungroup to get to some stuff.  My oldish version of Illustrator drops
some of the fill content :/

Re: XMLGraphics temp site up

[Thomas DeWeese]

Clay Leeds wrote:
On Nov 8, 2004, at 5:51 AM, Thomas DeWeese wrote:
As it currently is I actually prefer the 'non svg shapes'
version as the used shapes are rather simplistic (it makes it looks
like an 80's graphics package).
I agree wholeheartedly. My intent was to get the idea of pushing the  
graphics out there, but perhaps using gradient-filled shapes or  
something might be better (or better yet, perhaps I should just shrink  
the tiger...). This logo is actually my first *real* attempt at playing  
with SVG (I'd done some shapes before--which is why I added the  shapes).
   This is a lot easier to do with an appropriate tool like
Adobe Illustrator, or perhaps SodiPodi, or Sketsa (I've only
really used Illustrator).
   Now for a few suggestions:
I have seen some of the Apache projects that left justify
the text and move the feather up next to the 'The Apache'. This
would work well for us since 'XML Graphics Project' is quite a
bit longer.

Sounds good. If I can find the time this week, I'll play around with it.
   See attached example.  It's not great, the xml on the page isn't
_quite_ large enough I don't think (for a 52 pixel rendering).
Also the radial gradient is a cheap way to keep the rest of the logo
from looking too plain.  It would be better to have something like a
floorplan or chart or Illuminated text softly in the background.
That's doable. I don't know if the squiggles are well commented in  
those .svg files, but if they are they should be easy to add. If not,  
could you or someone familiar with these attach the  for it to a  
JIRA/bugzilla issue?
   The squiggle is a 'symbol' from batikLogo.svg.  It should be
trivial to pull out.
I don't know if FOP has a
similar readily available icon you could use.
This is about all we have:
http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/xml-fop/images/logo.jpg
   Very good, but not quite Iconic, although I really like the
idea of using the Apache feather as a 'quill'. :)
I like the idea of the separate icon for XML Graphics, because I  
envision other projects joining in.
   Yes, this is the main problem with the 'icons' logo it
doesn't really 'unite' the projects.  It actually tends to
emphasize there independence.
I would guess that given your background in Batik, you might have more  
'dexterity' in creating SVG than I. If you (or anyone else reading) has  
the time (I know, who has that?) I'd love to see what other folks can  
come up with.
   For 'artsy' stuff you really can't hand code SVG you have to use a
tool.  But it helps to know SVG to trim and combine the 'artsy'
elements into a compact logo.
<>

Re: XMLGraphics temp site up

[Clay Leeds]

On Nov 8, 2004, at 5:51 AM, Thomas DeWeese wrote:
Hi Guys,
   Well, I must admit to not being really excited by the new logo.
Not to hurt people's feelings, note that it is good, but I think it
could be better.  None of these are really strong held but are my
opinions.
I was hoping for feedback (my first post RE: the 'new' logo was in  
August--albeit on fop-dev), so I welcome any feedback I can get. Glen's  
comment RE: using ws.a.o as another example notwithstanding (thanks  
Glen!), I haven't had any other comments yet (hint! hint! ;-)).

As it currently is I actually prefer the 'non svg shapes'
version as the used shapes are rather simplistic (it makes it looks
like an 80's graphics package).
I agree wholeheartedly. My intent was to get the idea of pushing the  
graphics out there, but perhaps using gradient-filled shapes or  
something might be better (or better yet, perhaps I should just shrink  
the tiger...). This logo is actually my first *real* attempt at playing  
with SVG (I'd done some shapes before--which is why I added the  
shapes).

The text is a bit hard to read over the Apache feather.  I
know that you added the white surround and it helps but the letters
still 'disappear' into the noise of the feather more than I would
like.
I agree. I actually spent a bit of time on that, and was never  
particularly happy when I was done.

   Now for a few suggestions:
I have seen some of the Apache projects that left justify
the text and move the feather up next to the 'The Apache'. This
would work well for us since 'XML Graphics Project' is quite a
bit longer.
Sounds good. If I can find the time this week, I'll play around with it.
The URL in the corner is the old xml.apache.org URL, it
should of course be xmlgraphics.apache.org (Ideally I'd like
to turn this 90deg and have it run vertically, but it's too long
to be readable when this is done).
If we want to have 'svg' in the logo I would look at the
samples directory of Batik[1] and pull out some of those.  The one's
that come to mind would be either of the map images (mapSpain,
mapWaadt - which could be used pretty much 'as is') or perhaps
grab elements from sunRise (although that is a little 'eclipse' like).
Thanks! There's some really cool stuff in there!




Favorite ideas/themes:




I also like the Sun and the 'waxing crescent Moon' from here:


I think I like batikBatik.png best! I'd like to see what I could do to  
get an Apache XML Graphics Project logo done in that kind of 'theme'...

My actual preference would be to include 'icons' from the sub
projects in the new logo.  For Batik this is simple since we already
use the 'squiggle' heavily for this purpose (this is the
red/green/blue mark in a bunch of places).
That's doable. I don't know if the squiggles are well commented in  
those .svg files, but if they are they should be easy to add. If not,  
could you or someone familiar with these attach the  for it to a  
JIRA/bugzilla issue?

I don't know if FOP has a
similar readily available icon you could use.
This is about all we have:
http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/xml-fop/images/logo.jpg
although I have a close approximation for an svg logo. I'll see what I  
can come up with.

I would picture these
icons 'looped' together in a clear area on the right side (think
of an infinity sign with the batik logo on one side and Fop on the
other).  As more projects join we can add icons for them to the
looping.  Alternately we could come up with a new icon just for
XML Graphics (a complex 'document' with the corner turned and
on the back is XML - might be hard to pull off in a ~51px square)
I like the idea of the separate icon for XML Graphics, because I  
envision other projects joining in.

[1]  
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/

I've placed a temporary xmlgraphics.apache.org site live on my  
homepage. Please take a look and provide feedback and comments:

http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/xml-fop/xml-graphics/
I would guess that given your background in Batik, you might have more  
'dexterity' in creating SVG than I. If you (or anyone else reading) has  
the time (I know, who has that?) I'd love to see what other folks can  
come up wit

Re: XMLGraphics temp site up (was Re: Can we please disable the Wiki on Nagoya?)

[Thomas DeWeese]

Hi Guys,
   Well, I must admit to not being really excited by the new logo.
Not to hurt people's feelings, note that it is good, but I think it
could be better.  None of these are really strong held but are my
opinions.
As it currently is I actually prefer the 'non svg shapes'
version as the used shapes are rather simplistic (it makes it looks
like an 80's graphics package).
The text is a bit hard to read over the Apache feather.  I
know that you added the white surround and it helps but the letters
still 'disappear' into the noise of the feather more than I would
like.
   Now for a few suggestions:
I have seen some of the Apache projects that left justify
the text and move the feather up next to the 'The Apache'. This
would work well for us since 'XML Graphics Project' is quite a
bit longer.
The URL in the corner is the old xml.apache.org URL, it
should of course be xmlgraphics.apache.org (Ideally I'd like
to turn this 90deg and have it run vertically, but it's too long
to be readable when this is done).
If we want to have 'svg' in the logo I would look at the
samples directory of Batik[1] and pull out some of those.  The one's
that come to mind would be either of the map images (mapSpain,
mapWaadt - which could be used pretty much 'as is') or perhaps
grab elements from sunRise (although that is a little 'eclipse' like).
My actual preference would be to include 'icons' from the sub
projects in the new logo.  For Batik this is simple since we already
use the 'squiggle' heavily for this purpose (this is the
red/green/blue mark in a bunch of places).  I don't know if FOP has a
similar readily available icon you could use.  I would picture these
icons 'looped' together in a clear area on the right side (think
of an infinity sign with the batik logo on one side and Fop on the
other).  As more projects join we can add icons for them to the
looping.  Alternately we could come up with a new icon just for
XML Graphics (a complex 'document' with the corner turned and
on the back is XML - might be hard to pull off in a ~51px square)
[1] http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/
Glen Mazza wrote:
Very nice--I like the xmlgraphics logo, and the layout of the text is 
well done.  I think in general having fewer pages but of higher quality 
is preferable.
Glen

Clay Leeds wrote:
On Oct 9, 2004, at 1:30 AM, Jeremias Maerki wrote:

While we're talking about volunteers, when the resolution passes we will
have some work to do, creating a charter, setting up a website for XML
Graphics which will link to the two existing websites under XML and a
few other things. I intent to do a good part of this but I hope I will
get some help.

I've placed a temporary xmlgraphics.apache.org site live on my 
homepage. Please take a look and provide feedback and comments:

http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/xml-fop/xml-graphics/

Re: XMLGraphics temp site up (was Re: Can we please disable the Wiki on Nagoya?)

[Glen Mazza]

[Clay]
>More thoughts and comments?
One site that may serve as a source for more ideas is the Apache Web 
Services TLP:  http://ws.apache.org/.

Glen

Re: XMLGraphics temp site up (was Re: Can we please disable the Wiki on Nagoya?)

[Glen Mazza]

Very nice--I like the xmlgraphics logo, and the layout of the text is 
well done.  I think in general having fewer pages but of higher quality 
is preferable. 

Glen
Clay Leeds wrote:
On Oct 9, 2004, at 1:30 AM, Jeremias Maerki wrote:

While we're talking about volunteers, when the resolution passes we will
have some work to do, creating a charter, setting up a website for XML
Graphics which will link to the two existing websites under XML and a
few other things. I intent to do a good part of this but I hope I will
get some help.

I've placed a temporary xmlgraphics.apache.org site live on my 
homepage. Please take a look and provide feedback and comments:

http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/xml-fop/xml-graphics/