On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 00:07:15 +0100, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com
wrote:
I wouldn't comment Jan-Bart's wish, but I have comparable position
toward usage of particular words: If email in my inbox begins with
Dear Milos (especially in Serbian) by a person not so close to me, I
would treat it
Am I the one person feeling that the way this debate is going in a stupid
direction that is totally irrelevant to the scope of this list ?
I thought we were to discuss Movement roles letter, Feb 2012 . Just a
gentle reminder ! :P
Regards
Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Yaroslav M.
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:18:20 +0530, CherianTinu Abraham
tinucher...@gmail.com wrote:
Am I the one person feeling that the way this debate is going in a
stupid
direction that is totally irrelevant to the scope of this list ?
I thought we were to discuss Movement roles letter, Feb 2012 . Just a
On 18 February 2012 14:48, CherianTinu Abraham tinucher...@gmail.com wrote:
Am I the one person feeling that the way this debate is going in a stupid
direction that is totally irrelevant to the scope of this list ?
I thought we were to discuss Movement roles letter, Feb 2012 . Just a
gentle
-0500
From: nawr...@gmail.com
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com
wrote:
Gomà called him Jan at least 3 times today and no one complained.
Everyone
From: berial...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:52:24 -0200
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
(And besides if someone would complain about misspelling, the Russians,
Arabs, Japanese and Indians should be the ones since
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote:
No I will not apologize for act according with my culture.
If Mister de Vreede has a problem with people from different cultures he
shouldn't be part of a international movement.
(And besides if someone would complain
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 17:52, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote:
No I will not apologize for act according with my culture.
If Mister de Vreede has a problem with people from different cultures he
shouldn't be part of a international movement.
(And besides if someone would complain about
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote:
Jan-Bart and others have asked that you call him Jan-Bart. What part of
that is confusing? You can ascribe your first error to different custom;
continuing
/Talk:Wikimedia_affiliation_models#Questions
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:41:49 +0100
From: Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
Message-ID: 268bd4b0-7e6f
You have not understood the difference between a discussion in Meta
and the transformation of this discussion in an operational
implementation in the organization.
This proposal has a lot of bugs, it seems like a discussion made in
front of the coffee machine.
Formally your point of view is
Just to provide some background to my previous mail and left clear that
there is not offensive intention.
In Spanish the cemetery is a well known metaphor for the difficulties of
reforming universities and educational systems. For example in Uruguay:
Serious that you can't see the good side in ask the chapters, Bishakha?
You're after all deciding their lifes or death, can't we at least choose
the way we are going to die?
_
*Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo
this would be called: too much drama
There is no life and death situation for the chapters here. See my earlier
mails for ways of getting to a sustainable organization...
Secondly: When faced with a life or death situation, most people try to trick
death and stay alive.. most don't repeat: I
Jan for the million time: Give me the parameters and we can discuss. I will
not put my faith in another
great-and-solver-of-all-Wikimedians-problems-but-not-yet-funded Committe.
When you have a clear way to choose people for this FDC, a clear way of how
it will going to work and most important:
On 15 feb. 2012, at 18:54, Béria Lima wrote:
Jan for the million time: Give me the parameters and we can discuss. I will
not put my faith in another
great-and-solver-of-all-Wikimedians-problems-but-not-yet-funded Committe.
Ok, in that case, just wait until we have all solved this without
Jan
Provide me a link to work and I will gladly tell on wiki how much your idea
sucks and how I come up with a better one without dismiss community opinion
and being condescending like you.
Here we can't solve anything.
_
*Béria Lima
**Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote:
Serious that you can't see the good side in ask the chapters, Bishakha?
Awaiting your and others' thoughts on
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_affiliation_models#Questions
Cheers
Bishakha
On 15 feb. 2012, at 19:07, Béria Lima wrote:
Jan
Provide me a link to work
and I will gladly tell on wiki how much your idea
sucks and how I come up with a better one without dismiss community opinion
and being condescending like you.
Actually that was not condescending (if anything:
in the
opposite direction.
Cheers,
Craig
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:07:23 -0200
From: B?ria Lima berial...@gmail.com
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
Message-ID:
caa2xhjag
Click in the tab History. You can see I already asked the question I've
been questioning you and Jan there. sarcasmIf you can't do find a diff
alone,/sarcasm I can help:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_affiliation_modelsdiff=3441324oldid=3441316
_
*Béria Lima*
@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
Message-ID:
caa2xhjag+ummrkskhe82hatxkocycxm_tsmkb6nmn36mkdj...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Jan
Provide me a link to work and I will gladly tell on wiki how much your
idea
sucks
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote:
Gomà called him Jan at least 3 times today and no one complained.
Everyone in Brazil calls me B (yah, just the first letter) and here is
VERY common to shortening people's names. Is more a way to write it fast
than to
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote:
Gomà called him Jan at least 3 times today and no one complained.
Everyone in Brazil calls me B (yah, just the first letter) and here is
VERY common
From: Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com
Regarding Amical my personal opinion is that they are highly flexible.
First they proposed a transnational chapter operating in 4 countries,
later
they sent a mail to the board saying they would have a national chapter
for
Andorra, later they
Hi Ziko,
what was presented at Wikimania, was only supposed to be very rough and a
first phase. The idea was to then continue the process further - somehow
that never really happened. I agree there were and are quite some flaws in
the design (for which I don't necessarily see an immediate
Lodewijk,
I remember the session in Haifa very well. The audience found it
extremely difficult to understand the texts and do anything with them
- think of the awkward silence when the group asked for feedback. It
must be possible to criticize the texts in spite of their alleged
roughness. And
Hi Ziko,
if you're saying that the proposals should not get 'extra points' because
they happen to come from a working group that did not function optimally
(far from that - although it was definitely not useless either) I totally
agree. Just review the proposals on their own merits, and consider
That's exactly what I did.
Ziko
2012/2/14 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org:
agree. Just review the proposals on their own merits, and consider its
impact rather than its source.
___
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi Ziko and Lodewijk,
Thank you for this feedback. I must say that I was not intimately involved in
these recommendations, and my take was that this was something that came out of
the MR workgroup, and we had actually waited too long to approve these
recommendations.
It is clear to me that
2012/2/14 Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org:
It is clear to me that there is a close link between the
fundraising/dissemination discussion and the increased options of
organising ourselves. I am also convinced that we
Indeed, and it may not be a coincidence that these two letters
I agree with the idea to ask Chapters, but since the Board is pushing this
to be read at 10 March. I have no freaking Idea why that date is so
Important - I know you people don't wanna mess with my birthday the day
before ;) - but we all can wait a bit more to do things rights, rather than
do it
Hi, everyone!
Alec, I share your enthusiasm about wikimedia revolution, and I also have
been nagging my chapter with the idea of the shared wikivalues. I ask
everyone to take this in mind as a lighthouse in the gales. Governance is
not an easy way, and for sure we're going to make some big
On 2/13/12 8:45 AM, Mathias Damour wrote:
Why would both Associations and Affiliates both need to use
Wikimedia marks ?
Does OpenStreetMap need it if it gets some grants from the WMF ?
As Andre says, Affiliates need permission to use the WMF marks on
their own sites / banners, or to run
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nlwrote:
2012/2/14 Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org:
It is clear to me that there is a close link between the
fundraising/dissemination discussion and the increased options of
organising ourselves. I am also
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Mathias Damour
mathias.dam...@laposte.net wrote:
Why would both Associations and Affiliates both need to use Wikimedia
marks ?
Because they might feel a need to identify themselves as part of
Wikimedia. Yes, there is much talk about use of Wikimedia trademarks
On 2/13/12 8:45 AM, Mathias Damour wrote:
Why would both Associations and Affiliates both need to use
Wikimedia marks ?
Does OpenStreetMap need it if it gets some grants from the WMF ?
I hope that these models won't be used to softly downgrade (or threaten
to downgrade) chapters that would be
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Mathias Damour
mathias.dam...@laposte.netwrote:
I hope that these models won't be used to softly downgrade (or threaten to
downgrade) chapters that would be said not having their bylaws and mission
aligned with Wikimedia's.
I see new 'models' as a positive
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.comwrote:
One benefit I can identify from this decision is that we could push
forward that
* partner organizations are ONLY recognized by Wikimedia Foundation
* whilst chapters could finally push forward the idea that a new
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com
wrote:
One benefit I can identify from this decision is that we could push
forward that
* partner organizations are ONLY recognized by
Thank you for sharing this, Ting. I think this is an excellent set of
proposals with which to start a more structured discussion than we've
currently had on this topic.
I fail to see the attack on chapters that other people are talking
about. There is a distinct difference between Chapters and
On 2/13/12 12:51 PM, Bishakha Datta wrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Florence Devouardanthe...@yahoo.comwrote:
One benefit I can identify from this decision is that we could push
forward that
* partner organizations are ONLY recognized by Wikimedia Foundation
* whilst chapters could
I am concerned that trying to include them in that kind of process
wouldn't work due to the very flexible nature of such organisations.
One Chapter - One Vote is problematic as it is (eg. chapters
represent geographies of very different sizes, have very different
numbers of members, very
www.wikimedia.org.es
--- El lun, 13/2/12, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com escribió:
De: Nathan nawr...@gmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
Para: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Fecha: lunes, 13 de febrero, 2012 15:03
I am concerned that trying
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 14:54, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com wrote:
I take it you are aware that each chapter developped over time its own set
of partners (similar-minded organizations that have overlapping goals with
the chapters). These organizations have developped a specific
Marctaltor)
Secretario de Wikimedia España
mar...@wikimedia.org.es
tal_t...@yahoo.es
(34) 658 395 060
www.wikimedia.org.es
--- El lun, 13/2/12, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com escribió:
De: Nathan nawr...@gmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
Para: Wikimedia
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 15:58, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote:
It would be great if we can have this discussion without making sarcastic
remarks like this - I know it is a sensitive topic, but I also know that
we're in a suboptimal situation here right now. In the past discussions
Message du 13/02/12 15:59
De : Lodewijk
I think there are two types of organizations within the Wikimedia movement
relevant here besides the chapters and the WMF:
1) Organizations that will ideally grow into a chapter some day
2) Organizations that explicitely do not want to or cannot grow
On 2/13/12 3:56 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 14:54, Florence Devouardanthe...@yahoo.com wrote:
I take it you are aware that each chapter developped over time its own set
of partners (similar-minded organizations that have overlapping goals with
the chapters). These
On 13 February 2012 14:29, marcos tal_t...@yahoo.es wrote:
There is a simpler solution: to dissolve the current structure of chapters
and to leave everything in hands of the magnificent professionals of San
Francisco...
This is effectively how fundraising now works.
- d.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 17:48, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com wrote:
Well, I am not sure if I remember well the arguments exactly (those who do,
please help)
* we supported chapter creation covering a geographical area rather than not
mostly because a legal entity ought to be linked to
From: Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
Message-ID: jhar77$4kl$1...@dough.gmane.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 2/13/12 8:45 AM, Mathias Damour wrote:
Why
From: Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
Message-ID:
CACf6Bev=Wv-N89LB4b3DAY05RDYp9qhd4UVTGZeX3u=hvvh...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text
On 2/13/12 11:04 PM, Joan Goma wrote:
From: Florence Devouardanthe...@yahoo.com
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
Message-ID:jhar77$4kl$1...@dough.gmane.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 2/13/12 8:45
Hello,
I am afraid that the letter takes over the results of the MR group
that where presented at Wikimania 2011. There nobody, as far as I
remember, who was enthousiast about those results. My board colleague
Marco, for example, was stunned that the MR group thought that the
International
I'm happy to see the Partner Organization possibility being given
serious consideration. I'm a longtime believer that organizations
with Wikimedia values need to band together into some larger
umbrella organizational structure. I hope this new framework will
allow us to return to a more
The Board approves the following letter to be sent to the community:
The organizational structure of the Wikimedia movement is growing
rapidly: since 2010, the number of chapters has grown by 50%, and the
size of the Foundation has doubled. Over the past 18 months, the
movement roles
Why would both Associations and Affiliates both need to use
Wikimedia marks ?
Does OpenStreetMap need it if it gets some grants from the WMF ?
I hope that these models won't be used to softly downgrade (or threaten
to downgrade) chapters that would be said not having their bylaws and
mission
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