Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-11-29 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 07:37:27PM -0500, Luis Villa wrote: On Nov 28, 2007 7:15 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see how the foundation can 'make sure' of anything in this instance. It can not force developers towards or away from either spec. That is

Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-11-29 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 09:09:31PM -0500, Jody Goldberg wrote: On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 12:15:11AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 06:23:57PM -0500, Jody Goldberg wrote: On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 09:34:54PM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: and I hope

Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-11-29 Thread Jody Goldberg
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 08:25:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 09:09:31PM -0500, Jody Goldberg wrote: If you (or anyone else) is interested talk to the board. That is all it takes. I'd love to do it, but the weekly meetings are too much of a

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 08:03:38PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I read http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/05/gnome-mono-yelp/ with great concern. (...) However, making GNOME depend on Mono is running a grave risk, and a grave mistake. If the article accurately describes the situation, I

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Pascal Terjan
On Nov 29, 2007 11:48 AM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 08:03:38PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I read http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/05/gnome-mono-yelp/ with great concern. (...) However, making GNOME depend on Mono is running a grave risk,

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 12:22:23PM +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Richard Stallman I read http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/05/gnome-mono-yelp/ with great concern. Unfortunately, the authors of that website are obstinate in their indifference to the truth, and do not serve the

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 01:15:34AM +, Bastien Nocera wrote: On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 20:03 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I read http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/05/gnome-mono-yelp/ with great concern. snip usual rant Yelp has had an optional Beagle dependency for at least 2 years. It's

Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-11-29 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 05:40:47AM -0500, Jody Goldberg wrote: On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 08:25:30AM +, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 09:09:31PM -0500, Jody Goldberg wrote: If you (or anyone else) is interested talk to the board. That is all it takes.

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Rui Miguel Silva Seabra I think you're way too harsh on people who actually concluded things like: Sorry, but the negativity of that site greatly outweighs the positive. It takes more than a little sucking up to earn back my respect after the crap they've been spewing. - Jeff --

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Rui Miguel Silva Seabra Yelp has had an optional Beagle dependency for at least 2 years. It's optional, and it's not news. We need a new RPM in some distributions, as optional dependencies are not part of current RPM in Fedora, for instance :) libbeagle does not depend on Mono.

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Bastien Nocera libbeagle does not depend on Mono. Perhaps, if the Fedora RPM of libbeagle actually depends on Mono, it needs to be fixed. It doesn't. I am Jack's abject lack of surprise. :-) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2008: Melbourne, Australiahttp://lca2008.linux.org.au/

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Bastien Nocera
On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 22:00 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Rui Miguel Silva Seabra Yelp has had an optional Beagle dependency for at least 2 years. It's optional, and it's not news. We need a new RPM in some distributions, as optional dependencies are not part of current RPM

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Luis Villa
On Nov 29, 2007 5:59 AM, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Rui Miguel Silva Seabra I think you're way too harsh on people who actually concluded things like: Sorry, but the negativity of that site greatly outweighs the positive. It takes more than a little sucking up to earn

Re: A question to candidates

2007-11-29 Thread George Kraft
About the hiring, it really depends. At first sight, I would prefer to hire an executive director because it would have more impact on GNOME Foundation actions (marketing, business partnerships, conferences, etc). However, if we can't find a really good person for the position, I would

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Rodrigo Moya
On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 20:03 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I read http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/05/gnome-mono-yelp/ with great concern. Since I am not an expert, I cannot tell on my own if that description of the situation is accurate. If part of it is not accurate, I hope someone will

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Luis Villa
On Nov 29, 2007 8:31 AM, BJörn Lindqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 29, 2007 1:33 PM, Luis Villa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 29, 2007 5:59 AM, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Rui Miguel Silva Seabra I think you're way too harsh on people who actually concluded

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Dave Neary
Luis Villa wrote: Jeff has ably debunked this particular fiction already in the thread, and more generally ably debunked the FUD that Novell somehow controls the Foundation. As to the rest, I have better things to do with my life than to debunk the rest of boycottnovell post-by-post. Now what

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jonathan Blandford
On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 15:54 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Luis Villa wrote: Jeff has ably debunked this particular fiction already in the thread, and more generally ably debunked the FUD that Novell somehow controls the Foundation. As to the rest, I have better things to do with my life than

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Luis Villa
On Nov 29, 2007 10:37 AM, Jonathan Blandford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 15:54 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Luis Villa wrote: Jeff has ably debunked this particular fiction already in the thread, and more generally ably debunked the FUD that Novell somehow controls the

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread BJörn Lindqvist
On Nov 29, 2007 3:13 PM, Luis Villa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 29, 2007 8:31 AM, BJörn Lindqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 29, 2007 1:33 PM, Luis Villa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll second this. The fact:fiction ratio of boycottnovell is just incredibly, incredibly bad.

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Joe Shaw
Hi, On 11/29/07, BJörn Lindqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No. The boycottnovell site and the OP alluded to that there would be moral, philosophical and or legal problems with GNOME depending on Mono and or C#. Is that fact or is it fiction? Moral or philosophical is hard to judge, since so

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread John (J5) Palmieri
On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 20:03 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: I read http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/05/gnome-mono-yelp/ with great concern. Since I am not an expert, I cannot tell on my own if that description of the situation is accurate. If part of it is not accurate, I hope someone will

Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-11-29 Thread Richard Stallman
What funding? No one is paying Jody to do what he does on OOXML; again, he is a volunteer, doing things voluntarily. If someone were to volunteer for ODF, the board would facilitate it. But the board isn't going to pay anyone to work on either standard. We have analogous

Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Richard Stallman The reason this is not so is that Microsoft is trying to spin the apparent support of GNOME into proof that OOXML is not bad for free software. Microsoft haven't done so publicly thus far, but the risk is there, and we will endeavour to make it absolutely clear that

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Joe Shaw It's been frustrating over the past few years that GNOME hasn't taken a firm position on the issue. Agree. I suspect there hasn't been anything firm because (a) there is quite a bit of division within the community on the issue and (b) there is some element of walking on

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Jeff Waugh
quote who=Og Maciel On Nov 29, 2007 5:40 PM, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If these programs are important enough to deserve the term miss out on, then I think they should be written in another language. Note that the above quote is misattributed, and was stated by Richard, not me.

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Joe Shaw
Hi, On 11/29/07, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree this isn't really something that the foundation can force, but even asking politely in an official capacity would be a step in the right direction. The Foundation asking politely of developers with regards to their choices, or

Money spending, questions for the candidates

2007-11-29 Thread Philip Van Hoof
Hi there, The questions: o. Given that the Foundation of GNOME has plenty of money, will you if elected vote to spend this money on important projects? Being mostly interested in mobile targets and GNOME Mobile, I could certainly come up with some projects that might both increase

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Vincent Untz
Le jeudi 29 novembre 2007, à 18:03 -0500, Joe Shaw a écrit : It's been frustrating over the past few years that GNOME hasn't taken a firm position on the issue. I have personally felt very in limbo because my application is in C#, and it would make me much more comfortable if the community

Re: two questions for candidates

2007-11-29 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On Mon, 2007-11-26 at 10:28 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: 1. Would you change anything in the GNOME Foundation statement about OOXML? No. (send it out sooner is not a valid answer.) 2. How do you think the GNOME Foundation should support the Free Software Movement in general? By

Re: Question to candidates: what about next ODF?

2007-11-29 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 17:32 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: The reason this is not so is that Microsoft is trying to spin the apparent support of GNOME into proof that OOXML is not bad for free software. Such a risk is always there. People who base their information on what one side of a

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Kalle Vahlman
2007/11/30, Richard Stallman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The more cool stuff depends on Mono, the closer we get to a situation where a Microsoft attack on Mono would put GNOME in a vice. If these programs are important enough to deserve the term miss out on, then I think they should be written in

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
Quick reply to say that I pretty much agree with Joe. There are areas that it's very clear to anyone that our code infringing MS patents. And none of that is hidden to anyone. Lemme give a very central and specific example: - GNOME requires at least one of Microsoft Uniscribe, Apple ATSUI,

Re: GNOME dependent on Mono

2007-11-29 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 18:03 -0500, Joe Shaw wrote: Again, I think this is a strawman argument. There's no evidence to suggest that Microsoft would attack Mono any more than they would attack other free and open source software like GNOME, the Linux kernel, OpenOffice, Samba, Apache, Python,