Some notes on GNOME Shell
"The secret master plan" Boy do I wish I had a secret master plan tucked in a drawer somewhere! It would be really useful To the extent we have a master plan, it's in two documents that everybody has seen: http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/shell/design/GNOME_Shell-20091114.pdf http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/RoadmapTwoThirtyOne "The Red Hat cabal" The practical structure of the GNOME Shell project dual (benevolent) dictatorship - I'm the dictator for technical decisions, Jon is the dictator for design decisions. That's pretty much like every other GNOME module - someone has to make the decision in the end, and a lot of decisions are pretty much arbitrary. Are we going to depend on the development version of glib and GSettings for 2.31.3 or are we going to wait until 2.31.4? For more interesting decisions, influence is strictly a function of involvement. Creating patches, talking to us on IRC, coming up with solutions for problems we are having, and so forth. If you are doing work, you'll have a say. On the technical side, there are non-Red-Hatters with enormous influence because they are doing enormous amounts of work. As of yet, the number of people with that influence on the design side is small. But that's nothing fundamental - we would certainly welcome more help with open arms. (What has been a challenge is figuring out how to create the stepping stones to getting involved *productively* in design; we have tons of people coming up with ideas. But you can't implement 50 conflicting ideas.) "A corporate driven project" The defining characteristic of a corporate driven project is that what gets accepted or what doesn't is a factor of what's good for the corporation. I don't see that this is the case for GNOME Shell. The goal of Red Hat's involvement in the shell is a really great *upstream* version of GNOME. GNOME 3 with a great user interface out of the box. And we've always tried to make this a great collaboration between all the GNOME contributors including all the companies. That's the way it began at the GNOME design hackfest in 2008, and if since then certain companies have gone off and done their own thing, that's not because we haven't solicited their help. GNOME Shell is on the other hand a _driven_ project. We've always had an end-goal of GNOME 3; we haven't generally wanted to accept patches just because they exist. And it has a heavy review process. We do a *lot* of code review. I think that pays off in quality code and having a culture where the contributors are on the same page. But it does mean that sometimes patches languish waiting for review - code review is probably 30-40% of the work of the project. In other words, if you can't get a patch into GNOME Shell quickly, that doesn't mean that "the man" (or Red Hat) has it against you. (That being said, the unreviewed queue has typically been around 10-20 unreviewed patches while hundreds of patches do go in each month.) Zeitgeist Since at least last fall it's been very clear what the requirements are for Zeitgeist as part of GNOME 3. Not a framework that you can build multiple ideas on top of. Not something that's going to work on multiple desktop environments. Not an activity journal that is disconnected from the rest of the GNOME experience. For Zeitgeist to be part of the GNOME 3 experience, the GNOME 3 experience with files had to be defined. And then you can consider how a daemon like Zeitgeist might be a useful tool for building that. I feel pretty terrible that we weren't able to incorporate the work that Siegfried Gevatter did last summer as part of a the SOC. But in the end, without a UI plan, it was just extra complexity without a point for users we had to come up with the time to create a UI plan. That didn't happen until a few months ago, while it should have happened *before* the SOC project started. Our fault. "Technical boards" The day we have technical boards that are saying what can and can't go into individual modules is the day we lose GNOME. Technical decisions need to be made by the people that have a stake in the issue. Not by people who come in, spend an hour hearing about something for the first time, and then lay down the law. GNOME works to the extent that its members talk together; bring people over to their positions; actively work to create a consensus. If you have a valid point, you will be able to convince people of it. If we have massive disagreements going on between module maintainers (something I haven't seen for many years), there may be need for mediation - for getting people to talk. But that needs to be strictly *non-technical* mediation. And can be handled by the release team or the Foundation board as necessary. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gno
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 23:19 +0200, Seif Lotfy wrote: > > > Yet you think the solution to attracting new developers is to > wrap the > processes up in red tape and technical boards or design > boards? Surely > Free Software is supposed to be about meritocracy, not about > boards > dictating how an individual project should be run. > > > > Well currently there is a GNOME Shell meritocracy among the RH > employees. How is that meritocracy for the community. > Yes I think the solution is setting up boards. It is not a Meritocracy > as soon as sole responsibilities are given to a group of individuals > affiliated with the same corporation. > so, we complain that companies don't contribute enough upstream, and when a big team of developers from one company works on a new project, we don't like it? So what's the problem, that we want more non-RH people working on it? Since the development has been open for more than a year, I don't see anything preventing non-RH people to do so. As for giving responsibilities to a group of individuals, it is what happens in all GNOME modules. So, I don't see why we would need a board for gnome-shell and not for gnome-control-center, nautilus or others, or are you suggesting to add a huge bureaucracy for every non-trivial change/development that we do? ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: question for candidates
Richard: To advance to the goal of freedom for software users, we need to develop good free software, and we need to teach people to value and demand the freedom that free software offers them. We need to advance at the practical level and at the philosophical level. GNOME is good free software, and thus contributes at the practical level. How will candidates use the user community's awareness of GNOME to contribute to educating the communityn about freedom? Free software is a core value of the GNOME Foundation, and over the past few years I have worked directly with you on several occasions to improve how the GNOME Foundation presents itself as a part of the free software community. The GNOME community has many resources for reaching out to the public, but these are maintained by hundreds of volunteers who are unfortunately sometimes not always focused on communicating the message of free software. Fortunately, there are a core group of free software lovers in the GNOME community who review things and push for the message of free software to be more front and center, where it belongs, and I consider myself part of this team. I am sure that I miss opportunities as I am human, but fortunately I am not the only person on the lookout for more ways to educate people and focus people's attention about the benefits of free software. Brian ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: A few questions for the candidates
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 23:30 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote: > Hi, > > I originally wanted to have some questions included in the list of > questions sent by the membership committee, but I feel like waiting > for > Friday while the voting period is already opened is waiting a long > time > and I'm not being patient here :-) > > I apologize because some of those questions are most likely a bit > easier > to answer for people who are already on the board... Hi Vincent, 10 questions is more than a few, I'm glad you were not treasurer this year! I just wanted to reply quick that I am traveling on business in Taiwan and about to head out for the day and may not have an opportunity to respond right away as I fly back first ting tomorrow as well. As soon as I can I will be happy to respond to your questions. Thank you. Paul ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: A few questions for the candidates
Vincent: 1) I've read with interest the mails from the candidates announcing they're running, and most (if not all -- I didn't double-check) include some motivations with examples of what they'd be interested in working on. Why are those tasks/ideas things you cannot work on while not being on the board? Several tasks that I work on for the board are, in fact, things I could do if I weren't on the board. If I am not elected, I anticipate that I would continue participating on GNOME marketing, legal, and other areas. As a board member I act as Stormy's manager and as secretary. I would unlikely be in a position to continue providing these sorts of services to the board if I were not a board member. 2) What are your non-usual (ie, not code, not translations, not documentation, etc.) contributions as a GNOME Foundation member? (organizing events, pushing people to do things, finding sponsors, etc. are all possible answers) I have organized or helped to organize several GNOME events including the GNOME Usability hackfest and GNOME.Asia (3 years running). I also tend to be involved with getting things done on the GNOME Marketing, Usability, legal, and the new developing world mailing lists. 3) What is your opinion on the co-location of Akademy and GUADEC in 2011? And if you think it was not the best choice, will you still be able to help it happen? I think that free software communities should work together to battle our true competition, those proprietary desktops. I think co-located events helps with fostering this attitude and cross-platform solutions. 4) How much free time per week do you think you will be able to allocate for the board? (I'm very well aware that this could be 0 for some weeks, and 100% of your time for other weeks; I'm just asking in general) I currently spend about 8-12 hours per week working on Foundation activities. I anticipate this will continue. 5) Are you okay giving up some of your current GNOME responsabilities/activities to join the board? (give up a maintainer hat, or hack less, or participate less in a specific team) Or do you think it won't be necessary and why? (I know it's a bit related to the previous question :-)) I have found that I hack less since serving on the board, but I still find time to co-maintain GDM, work on multimedia, and work in other areas on the desktop. 6) Will you be interested in being treasurer, president or secretary if elected? If yes, which role and why? If elected, I anticipate I will serve as secretary again. Though I would consider a different position if someone else really wants to be secretary. 7) What do you think of the current GNOME Foundation budget? Had you read it at least once before reading this mail? (it's okay if you didn't look at it before, btw) Last year there was a real concern about the budget and how The GNOME Foundation would be able to continue covering costs associated with having Stormy as an employee. I think the work done over the past year to raise funds by doubling the advisory board fees, improving Friends of GNOME, and the great work done to find sponsors for various events and projects has put The GNOME Foundation in a good position moving forward. 8) What do you think our next fundraising campaign should be about? (I'd love to not read 11 times the same answer, thanks :-)) I think The GNOME Foundation should do a Friends of GNOME outreach program to GNOME users. Statistics show that most people who donate are users, not developers. However, we have never effectively done a marketing campaign directed towards our usres. 9) Will you be at GUADEC this year? (there's a board meeting and an advisory board meeting there) Yes, I plan to be there. 10) Make or break question: what's your favorite french expression? Tu n'as rien de mieux à faire? Brian ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: question for candidates
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 17:03 -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: > Here is a question for the candidates. > > To advance to the goal of freedom for software users, we need to > develop good free software, and we need to teach people to value and > demand the freedom that free software offers them. We need to advance > at the practical level and at the philosophical level. > > GNOME is good free software, and thus contributes at the practical > level. How will candidates use the user community's awareness of > GNOME to contribute to educating the communityn about freedom? Hi Richard, thanks for the question. GNOME's focus on freedom, including its mission in being accessible to everyone as free software, is a core philosophy in the GNOME community. With GNOME 3.0 coming this fall, it gives us a unique opportunity to continue to educate the community's awareness about free software as we will probably have greater access to the press and journalists as GNOME 3.0 is a newsworthy story. (We saw this a bit already starting last year with a number of interviews happening, I think there were 2 with Vincent that come to mind). On a personal level, I started giving presentations about GNOME 3.0 and whats coming late last year at Ohio Linux Fest and others and I hope to continue to do that this year. Part of the opening to my talk is specifically about GNOME's mission in being free software and talking about what that means to the community. Paul ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Question for the candidates : money !
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 15:11 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Lionel: > > > I've a question about GNOME business model and sustanability. As we have > > seen with the fundrising to hire a sysadmin, money is often a blocking > > point. The current business model seems to be donations. > > Actually, The GNOME Foundation acquires money from several sources: > > - Advisory Board fees > - Sponsorship for particular events or programs > - Profit from events (such as GUADEC) > - Donations (such as Friends of GNOME and the upcoming mobile donations >program being discussed on the marketing list) > > The GNOME Foundation has invested a fair amount of effort in the Friends > of GNOME program to increase donations and with good success. However, > donations are a small overall percentage of revenue. > > Also note that The GNOME Foundation is a charity. So, we do need to > ensure that money that we receive is used in ways that are aligned with > The GNOME Foundation charter. This does restrict how The GNOME > Foundation can raise and spend money to a degree. > > > Do you think that donations are good ? Good enough ? > > With more money, the GNOME Foundation can do more exciting things, so > the GNOME Foundation is always looking at ways to improve how money is > raised. > > In the past year, the GNOME Foundation doubled the advisory board fees > and this was a significant step making the organization more profitable. > > > Do you plan to work on this business model ? Do you have any proposals ? > > There is a lot of work going on to improve how the GNOME Foundation > raises money: > > - Statistics show that most money received via Friends of GNOME comes >from GNOME users, not people in the GNOME development community. >The GNOME Foundation is planning to start a campaign to more >effectively reach out to users to make them aware of the Friends >of GNOME program, and consider donating. > > - The board is currently working to develop a program to allow >companies and organizations to donate money. This program would >be directed at organizations that are not currently advisory board >members. This could be something like a "Friends of GNOME" program >for organizations instead of individuals. This could, for example, >provide a link exchange, advertising, mention as a sponsor of an >event, or other forms of recognition as an incentive to donate money. > > - By making events more profitable. We are constantly working with >event organizers to encourage them to find ways to make events >more profitable, or at least sustainable. > > - Typically sponsorship money that the GNOME Foundation receives is in >exchange for some service, such as by organizing a hackfest to get >work done in an area that benefits (directly or indirectly) those >organizations interested in providing sponsorship. > >With GNOME 3 approaching, the GNOME Foundation has been working hard >to organize a rich set of hackfests to focus on work that needs to >get done for GNOME 3 to be successful. The GNOME Foundation needs to >continue working hard in this area. > >However, more can be done. For example, the GNOME Foundation received >some sponsorship money last year to upgrade bugzilla. The GNOME >Foundation needs to continue to find ways to provide services that >will continue to bring in sponsorship money. > > - Currently the GNOME Foundation is organizing a Women's Outreach >Program. Getting more involved with organizing humanitarian events >like this could open the doors to finding new sponsors with an >interest in promoting humanitarian causes. > > - Grants are another possible source of revenue. We have done some >considerable work preparing ourselves to pursue them. Building a >community of volunteers to help with this has been slow going, but >our hope is that we can make grants more a part of our revenue >generation in time. > >http://live.gnome.org/Grants > > Brian I think Brian has done a thorough job answering the question for all the candidates. :) One last thing to add, as a small point about fundraising. After J5's email last year, and the Sysadmin campaign this year, we've learned that we do have the ability and the community to do small, focused fundraising campaigns that can raise significant amounts of money. It is our goal to continue to do that, probably no more than twice a year. As it was pointed out, Friends of GNOME contributions primarily come from our users, and we don't want to ask too much of them, so running very short, very targeted campaigns twice a year with a specific purpose is something we'd like to do moving forward. Paul ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
A few questions for the candidates
Hi, I originally wanted to have some questions included in the list of questions sent by the membership committee, but I feel like waiting for Friday while the voting period is already opened is waiting a long time and I'm not being patient here :-) I apologize because some of those questions are most likely a bit easier to answer for people who are already on the board... 1) I've read with interest the mails from the candidates announcing they're running, and most (if not all -- I didn't double-check) include some motivations with examples of what they'd be interested in working on. Why are those tasks/ideas things you cannot work on while not being on the board? 2) What are your non-usual (ie, not code, not translations, not documentation, etc.) contributions as a GNOME Foundation member? (organizing events, pushing people to do things, finding sponsors, etc. are all possible answers) 3) What is your opinion on the co-location of Akademy and GUADEC in 2011? And if you think it was not the best choice, will you still be able to help it happen? 4) How much free time per week do you think you will be able to allocate for the board? (I'm very well aware that this could be 0 for some weeks, and 100% of your time for other weeks; I'm just asking in general) 5) Are you okay giving up some of your current GNOME responsabilities/activities to join the board? (give up a maintainer hat, or hack less, or participate less in a specific team) Or do you think it won't be necessary and why? (I know it's a bit related to the previous question :-)) 6) Will you be interested in being treasurer, president or secretary if elected? If yes, which role and why? 7) What do you think of the current GNOME Foundation budget? Had you read it at least once before reading this mail? (it's okay if you didn't look at it before, btw) 8) What do you think our next fundraising campaign should be about? (I'd love to not read 11 times the same answer, thanks :-)) 9) Will you be at GUADEC this year? (there's a board meeting and an advisory board meeting there) 10) Make or break question: what's your favorite french expression? Thanks, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
Dear Iain, On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Iain wrote: > > > >Bring up and fix issues with GNOME that are being ignored or shunned. > > > Can you list these? > > I will just be frank here... > > Translation shifting from upstream to downstream ? > > Development infrastructure limiting upstream contribution. > > Canonical's Unity development, what does it mean for GNOME ? > > Red Hat's control over GNOME Shell ? > > Meego being a competition or a GNOME sister project ? > > Smaller companies involvement into GNOME decisions > > How much of GNOME is community driven and how much is company driven > > Is the GNOME community forced to assimilate with decisions made by those > companies? > > > > > Work on letting GNOME shell be lead by the community. > > > Can you expand on what you want changed? > > Currently all GNOME Shell decisions are taken by Red Hat, thus limiting > the community's technical as well as design contribution. > > It seems to me that your underlying belief is that there is too much > (large) corporate influence in GNOME. Would you say that you might > have some conflict of interest here given that your project > (Zeitgeist) was ignored/shunned by the GNOME Shell developers? > I am not singling out any one party, my concern is just that there are larger parties who don't necessarily seem to be aligned in their technical approaches. Zeitgeist is doing well downstream and Canonical seem very happy with it, yet this is not my concern. My concern is for GNOME. I don't think it is reasonable to get into a Shell / Zeitgeist discussion here. Although there were some obstacles on the road we did manage to find common ground with McCann's new designs and Owen's technical review. But I won't deny that the experience was *also* a "motivating factor" for me. I will use GNOME Shell however as an example of a corporate driven project: • The community never intensively evaluated the development and the design. • The community had very little to say in the decisions of the aforementioned processes. Just allowing the community to contribute code does not make it a community project. Which also makes marketing GNOME 3 harder for the marketing team. > > > > > I stand for innovation in GNOME. > > > What is lacking now, and what do want to do when being part of the > board? > > Recently GNOME has not been attracting many new developers. It is because > its current development state doesn't allow any new innovation to settle in. > GNOME being run mostly by people representing > > bigger companies no risks are being taken and thinking out of the box is > usually categorized as such. > > Surely one could argue that GNOME Shell is quite innovative thinking > outside of the box, and that quite a large risk is being taken with > it, and most of the suggestions for it that come from the community > are of requests for uninnovative things; "I want a task bar", "I want > applets" > Or is there a potential conflict of interest here as well that > Zeitgeist has not gained much traction in the community? > > Again I decide not to get into GS vs ZG discussions here since its just brings up flame-wars, beside the fact that they are not comparable since one is a UI and the other is a service. But there is an impressive community uptake for Zeitgeist if its of interest for you. Sure GNOME Shell might be innovative in a a Usability perspective but it is the same old desktop. What I meant to say is innovative technologies such as for example semantic desktop technologies that allow new dimensions of User Experience are not being deployed. > > [Redhat or Ubuntu] could start off with a design board combining > selected and competent representatives from community and companies, whose > first objective is to rewrite the HIG. > ... > > I suggest starting a technical board with equal amounts of > representatives of companies as and community whose members are > significantly competent for the roles. > ... > > Recently GNOME has not been attracting many new developers. > > Yet you think the solution to attracting new developers is to wrap the > processes up in red tape and technical boards or design boards? Surely > Free Software is supposed to be about meritocracy, not about boards > dictating how an individual project should be run. Well currently there is a GNOME Shell meritocracy among the RH employees. How is that meritocracy for the community. Yes I think the solution is setting up boards. It is not a Meritocracy as soon as sole responsibilities are given to a group of individuals affiliated with the same corporation. > iain > Cheers, Seif ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
question for candidates
Here is a question for the candidates. To advance to the goal of freedom for software users, we need to develop good free software, and we need to teach people to value and demand the freedom that free software offers them. We need to advance at the practical level and at the philosophical level. GNOME is good free software, and thus contributes at the practical level. How will candidates use the user community's awareness of GNOME to contribute to educating the communityn about freedom? ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Johannes Schmid wrote: > Hi! > > > AFAIK there are quite a few standing issues with GNOME arabic > > support. > > > > http://wiki.arabeyes.org/Gnome > > http://wiki.arabeyes.org/%D8%AC%D9%86%D9%88%D9%85 > > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=420964 > > > > These are slightly out of date though. > > Hmm, the bugs seem mostly fixed and I don't see what this has to do with > upstream vs. downstream. > > > * Why do you think our infrastructure is limiting? > > > > > > The development happening on Launchpad (not bazaar) really beats what > > GNOME provides in several aspects, starting bug management, > > blueprinting and linking with branches. There are a lot of nice > > projects there that are not part of GNOME because of the GNOME > > Infrastructure: GNOME Do, Docky, Getting Things GNOME... These > > projects are in their own rights very successful and used by the > > community. And by allowing them to deploy per default with GNOME would > > just benefit the GNOME community... > > The Project leads don't care since they are being deployed downstream > > now which is more or less skipping the middle man which is GNOME, who > > seem to be conservative in some of these aspects. > > I am not saying we should switch to Lauchpad or so. But we need to > > study and make an effort into compromising. Having major projects work > > downstream will kill GNOME, and pointing fingers will not help. > > Well, I see your point while I disagree. > > > > * For the company statements IMHO despite I don't know > > anything about > > the Unity plans I think those arent' true. Could you explain? > > > > > > > > I am not saying its true but sooner or later RH will want to deploy > > GNOME Shell on the netbooks just like Unity will at some point put an > > eye on the desktop... Its naive to asssume both will not try to assume > > positions in the netbook and desktop market... > > It's getting off-topic but would it be wrong to say that one company is > working upstream while the other company is working downstream? Wouldn't > the point be to have everyone work upstream? Seems like the new board > should participate in this discussion regardless who is in the new > board. > I would love to have the whole community discuss this issue... please wait for my next mail > > Regards, > Johannes > > > Cheers Seif ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
Hi! > AFAIK there are quite a few standing issues with GNOME arabic > support. > > http://wiki.arabeyes.org/Gnome > http://wiki.arabeyes.org/%D8%AC%D9%86%D9%88%D9%85 > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=420964 > > These are slightly out of date though. Hmm, the bugs seem mostly fixed and I don't see what this has to do with upstream vs. downstream. > * Why do you think our infrastructure is limiting? > > > The development happening on Launchpad (not bazaar) really beats what > GNOME provides in several aspects, starting bug management, > blueprinting and linking with branches. There are a lot of nice > projects there that are not part of GNOME because of the GNOME > Infrastructure: GNOME Do, Docky, Getting Things GNOME... These > projects are in their own rights very successful and used by the > community. And by allowing them to deploy per default with GNOME would > just benefit the GNOME community... > The Project leads don't care since they are being deployed downstream > now which is more or less skipping the middle man which is GNOME, who > seem to be conservative in some of these aspects. > I am not saying we should switch to Lauchpad or so. But we need to > study and make an effort into compromising. Having major projects work > downstream will kill GNOME, and pointing fingers will not help. Well, I see your point while I disagree. > * For the company statements IMHO despite I don't know > anything about > the Unity plans I think those arent' true. Could you explain? > > > > I am not saying its true but sooner or later RH will want to deploy > GNOME Shell on the netbooks just like Unity will at some point put an > eye on the desktop... Its naive to asssume both will not try to assume > positions in the netbook and desktop market... It's getting off-topic but would it be wrong to say that one company is working upstream while the other company is working downstream? Wouldn't the point be to have everyone work upstream? Seems like the new board should participate in this discussion regardless who is in the new board. Regards, Johannes signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
Hi, Le mardi 01 juin 2010, à 22:16 +0200, Seif Lotfy a écrit : > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Johannes Schmid wrote: > * Why do you think our infrastructure is limiting? > > The development happening on Launchpad (not bazaar) really beats what GNOME > provides in several aspects, starting bug management, blueprinting and > linking with branches. There are a lot of nice projects there that are not > part of GNOME because of the GNOME Infrastructure: GNOME Do, Docky, Getting > Things GNOME... These projects are in their own rights very successful and > used by the community. And by allowing them to deploy per default with GNOME > would just benefit the GNOME community... FWIW, there's an imminent announcement from the release team about moduleset reorganization that will have an impact on this. Hopefully, Lucas will send the mail tonight if I write this here ;-) > > * For the company statements IMHO despite I don't know anything about > > the Unity plans I think those arent' true. Could you explain? > > > > > I am not saying its true but sooner or later RH will want to deploy GNOME > Shell on the netbooks just like Unity will at some point put an eye on the > desktop... Its naive to asssume both will not try to assume positions in the > netbook and desktop market... I don't know if Red Hat will want to deploy GNOME Shell on netbooks, but GNOME will certainly want to have GNOME Shell work fine on netbooks. And as far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong) GNOME Shell is designed to have a UI that works for netbooks. FWIW, in your answers, you make it sound like GNOME Shell is just a Red Hat project. Red Hat is certainly a driving force behind it, contributing a lot, but it's a GNOME project, with many other contributors. Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
The GNOME Foundation is hiring a system administrator
The GNOME Foundation is hiring a system administrator. Thanks to all of you who have made this possible! http://live.gnome.org/Sysadmin/JobDescription = System Administrator Job Description = The GNOME Foundation is seeking candidates for a part-time system administrator position. The GNOME infrastructure cluster consists of a distributed network of machines providing services such as version control, bug tracking, web sites, and mailing lists to hundreds of part and full-time GNOME developers, and to the GNOME user community. The system administrator will work with and assist the volunteer GNOME sysadmin team to keep these services running smoothly, securely, and reliably, and to implement enhancements. This position is not primarily a coding position, however a certain amount of programming ability is needed to be able to maintain and enhance the system administration scripts and custom web applications that run on the GNOME servers. This position reports to the Executive Director of the GNOME Foundation. The successful candidate will: * Be able to conceive and execute projects independently without detailed direction. * Have experience working with volunteer and geographically distributed communities. * Be technically strong with experience in many or most of the following technologies: * Multiple GNU/Linux distributions with specific knowledge of Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Debian / Ubuntu distributions * Python * SQL databases * PHP * LDAP * Puppet * Mailman * Have good communication skills in written and spoken English. * Be passionate about Free Software and have knowledge regarding GNOME. Other job requirements include: * Ability to communicate and manage projects and priorities with a distributed group of volunteers who make up the GNOME Sysadmin team * Weekly and monthly communication with the Executive Director and quarterly reports regarding the Sysadmin Team's work to the GNOME Foundation. There are no specific educational requirements for this position, however a typical candidate will have completed or be in the process of completing an undergraduate degree. Several years experience maintaining production servers is mandatory. == How to Apply == To apply for this job, send your resume to board-l...@gnome.org. == Timeline == * June 22nd: deadline for accepting resumes * June 15-July 15th: phone interviews by hiring team * July 25-30th: Follow up with top candidates. * August 9th: Job starts. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Johannes Schmid wrote: > Hi! > > > I will just be frank here... > > • Translation shifting from upstream to downstream ? > > • Development infrastructure limiting upstream contribution. > > • Canonical's Unity development, what does it mean for GNOME ? > > • Red Hat's control over GNOME Shell ? > > • Meego being a competition or a GNOME sister project ? > > • Smaller companies involvement into GNOME decisions > > • How much of GNOME is community driven and how much is company driven > > • Is the GNOME community forced to assimilate with decisions made by > > those companies? > > • More... > > OK, you were asked to list them. Anyway, why do you think there are > true? > > * From my point of view as part of the gtp coordination team I think > translations are not shifting downstream, we rather solved most of these > problems and have high-quality upstream translations. > AFAIK there are quite a few standing issues with GNOME arabic support. http://wiki.arabeyes.org/Gnome http://wiki.arabeyes.org/%D8%AC%D9%86%D9%88%D9%85 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=420964 These are slightly out of date though. * Why do you think our infrastructure is limiting? > The development happening on Launchpad (not bazaar) really beats what GNOME provides in several aspects, starting bug management, blueprinting and linking with branches. There are a lot of nice projects there that are not part of GNOME because of the GNOME Infrastructure: GNOME Do, Docky, Getting Things GNOME... These projects are in their own rights very successful and used by the community. And by allowing them to deploy per default with GNOME would just benefit the GNOME community... The Project leads don't care since they are being deployed downstream now which is more or less skipping the middle man which is GNOME, who seem to be conservative in some of these aspects. I am not saying we should switch to Lauchpad or so. But we need to study and make an effort into compromising. Having major projects work downstream will kill GNOME, and pointing fingers will not help. > * For the company statements IMHO despite I don't know anything about > the Unity plans I think those arent' true. Could you explain? > > I am not saying its true but sooner or later RH will want to deploy GNOME Shell on the netbooks just like Unity will at some point put an eye on the desktop... Its naive to asssume both will not try to assume positions in the netbook and desktop market... > Thanks, > Johannes > > > -- This is me doing some advertisement for my blog http://seilo.geekyogre.com ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Question for the candidates : money !
Hi, El mar, 01-06-2010 a las 15:11 -0500, Brian Cameron escribió: > > > Do you plan to work on this business model ? Do you have any proposals ? > > - The board is currently working to develop a program to allow >companies and organizations to donate money. This program would >be directed at organizations that are not currently advisory board >members. This could be something like a "Friends of GNOME" program >for organizations instead of individuals. This could, for example, >provide a link exchange, advertising, mention as a sponsor of an >event, or other forms of recognition as an incentive to donate money. Brian refers to this email in marketing list: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2010-June/msg1.html Basically we want to define new roles that can be taken by smaller companies or organizations so they can donate and get visibility for it. Likely there are a lot of companies that would like to associate to GNOME if they had a clear chance. Comments welcome in marketing-list! ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
Le mardi 01 juin 2010 à 22:37 +0300, Claudio Saavedra a écrit : > On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 10:07 -0700, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: > > On 6/1/10 9:49 AM, "Claudio Saavedra" wrote: > > > > > > I wouldn't > > > be happy to see this kind of sarcasm being used by people > > running the > > > Foundation, if they happen to disagree with other > > > members. > > > > Happily for everyone, I'm not one of the people "running the Foundation", > > I'm just another member. > > Fair enough. I had the wrong impression that you were running for the > Foundation board. Sorry for the mistake. The mistake was mine. I apologize for that. Xav ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 10:07 -0700, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: > On 6/1/10 9:49 AM, "Claudio Saavedra" wrote: > > > > I wouldn't > > be happy to see this kind of sarcasm being used by people > running the > > Foundation, if they happen to disagree with other > > members. > > Happily for everyone, I'm not one of the people "running the Foundation", > I'm just another member. Fair enough. I had the wrong impression that you were running for the Foundation board. Sorry for the mistake. Claudio -- Claudio Saavedra ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Question for the candidates : money !
Lionel: I've a question about GNOME business model and sustanability. As we have seen with the fundrising to hire a sysadmin, money is often a blocking point. The current business model seems to be donations. Actually, The GNOME Foundation acquires money from several sources: - Advisory Board fees - Sponsorship for particular events or programs - Profit from events (such as GUADEC) - Donations (such as Friends of GNOME and the upcoming mobile donations program being discussed on the marketing list) The GNOME Foundation has invested a fair amount of effort in the Friends of GNOME program to increase donations and with good success. However, donations are a small overall percentage of revenue. Also note that The GNOME Foundation is a charity. So, we do need to ensure that money that we receive is used in ways that are aligned with The GNOME Foundation charter. This does restrict how The GNOME Foundation can raise and spend money to a degree. Do you think that donations are good ? Good enough ? With more money, the GNOME Foundation can do more exciting things, so the GNOME Foundation is always looking at ways to improve how money is raised. In the past year, the GNOME Foundation doubled the advisory board fees and this was a significant step making the organization more profitable. Do you plan to work on this business model ? Do you have any proposals ? There is a lot of work going on to improve how the GNOME Foundation raises money: - Statistics show that most money received via Friends of GNOME comes from GNOME users, not people in the GNOME development community. The GNOME Foundation is planning to start a campaign to more effectively reach out to users to make them aware of the Friends of GNOME program, and consider donating. - The board is currently working to develop a program to allow companies and organizations to donate money. This program would be directed at organizations that are not currently advisory board members. This could be something like a "Friends of GNOME" program for organizations instead of individuals. This could, for example, provide a link exchange, advertising, mention as a sponsor of an event, or other forms of recognition as an incentive to donate money. - By making events more profitable. We are constantly working with event organizers to encourage them to find ways to make events more profitable, or at least sustainable. - Typically sponsorship money that the GNOME Foundation receives is in exchange for some service, such as by organizing a hackfest to get work done in an area that benefits (directly or indirectly) those organizations interested in providing sponsorship. With GNOME 3 approaching, the GNOME Foundation has been working hard to organize a rich set of hackfests to focus on work that needs to get done for GNOME 3 to be successful. The GNOME Foundation needs to continue working hard in this area. However, more can be done. For example, the GNOME Foundation received some sponsorship money last year to upgrade bugzilla. The GNOME Foundation needs to continue to find ways to provide services that will continue to bring in sponsorship money. - Currently the GNOME Foundation is organizing a Women's Outreach Program. Getting more involved with organizing humanitarian events like this could open the doors to finding new sponsors with an interest in promoting humanitarian causes. - Grants are another possible source of revenue. We have done some considerable work preparing ourselves to pursue them. Building a community of volunteers to help with this has been slow going, but our hope is that we can make grants more a part of our revenue generation in time. http://live.gnome.org/Grants Brian ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 15:39 +0200, Seif Lotfy wrote: > > • Encourage more cooperation on design between RH and > Canonical. > > What do you mean concretely (design of what)? Why RH and > Canonical > specifically? > > > I left out Intel, Nokia, Novell and others because their main focus > now is on Meego which on a design level I do not consider a GNOME > project. I think that cooperation must be improved at all levels, not only at design. > Currently RH and Canonical both have started their own design & user > experience to improve the usability of GNOME. Both however seem to be > heading to the same goal but with different designs that could on a > shallow level end up leaving GNOME in an diverging state (Shell vs > Unity). Both should start cooperating on the design level. One could > start off with a design board combining selected and competent > representatives from community and companies, whose first objective is > to rewrite the HIG. gnome-shell is working upstream, _is_ a GNOME project, and Unity isn't. Moreover, I wasn't realised of their existence since very lately, and GNOME shell is been working from about a year. Sincerely, I have no idea of their motivation for this "fork". Reading a post from Tomeu Vizoso [1] I noticed that Ubuntu people doesn't have too much idea of GNOME GObject introspection. This sounds strange to me. Maybe they should have done better for been informed of this, but I'm sure we can do better too. What I want to mean is that we can problem like this at all levels, not only at design level. It seems that GNOME needs to improve the communication channels with downstreams (Red Hat, Canonical, Intel, Nokia, Novell, etc). We need active actions for this, it seems that transparency on GNOME project is not enough. And I know that we have the Advisory Board for that, but this model is not working neither. Maybe we need some periodical meetings with technical staff of downstream projects. Maybe we can organize this sort of meeting at GUADEC or we can organize hackfest for this. -- Juanjo marin [1] http://blog.tomeuvizoso.net/2010/05/ubuntu-and-gobject-introspection.html ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On 06/01/2010 01:08 PM, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: > On 6/1/10 10:01 AM, "Xavier Bestel" wrote: >> >> Err .. nothing, except my extraordinary ability to mix their names ? :) > > You're displaying quite a host of "extraordinary abilities" this morning. Can we please stop this subthread now? behdad ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On 6/1/10 10:01 AM, "Xavier Bestel" wrote: > > Err .. nothing, except my extraordinary ability to mix their names ? :) You're displaying quite a host of "extraordinary abilities" this morning. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On 6/1/10 9:49 AM, "Claudio Saavedra" wrote: > > I wouldn't > be happy to see this kind of sarcasm being used by people running the > Foundation, if they happen to disagree with other > members. Happily for everyone, I'm not one of the people "running the Foundation", I'm just another member. Are you happy to see irrelevant header checks being publicly performed in order to apparently attempt to invalidate, solely on that basis, the comments of other GNOME members? I'm not, as should be fairly clear. See, I have a this thing called a "job". My job involves video editing, among a variety of other things. I do my video editing in Final Cut Pro, which runs solely on OS X. The notion that I'm going to go and start up a completely different system in order to send my comments from a Linux (pardon me: _GNU_/Linux) box, using an approved, "free" email client, to satisfy the sensibilities of Xav and those like him, is rather absurd. I'm sorry, but in the world I live in, people learn to coexist with all sorts of things that might be less than ideal. I find the fact that there's no "free" equivalent for Final Cut Pro less than ideal, but there it is. I'm not about to stop editing video and wait around for some more "appropriate" program to arrive. And no, I wasn't "waiting" for this. I'm disturbed that we're continuing to play this childish game, frankly, and especially in this context. I simply sent an email message using the client I typically use on the system which I am currently using. Xav's suggestion that he was somehow "set up" is as absurd as his harping on message headers here. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 12:56 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > On 06/01/2010 12:18 PM, Xavier Bestel wrote: > > User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.24.0.100205 > > Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 08:41:19 -0700 > > Subject: FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy > > From: "Lefty (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQFA2QBsoQg==?= )" > > > > I find it quite amusing that you're using a Microsoft client on an Apple > > pc to defend your GNOME candidacy. > > Wait a second. What does Lefty's email client has to do with Seif's > candidacy? Err .. nothing, except my extraordinary ability to mix their names ? :) Xav ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On 06/01/2010 12:18 PM, Xavier Bestel wrote: > User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.24.0.100205 > Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 08:41:19 -0700 > Subject: FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy > From: "Lefty (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQFA2QBsoQg==?= )" > > I find it quite amusing that you're using a Microsoft client on an Apple > pc to defend your GNOME candidacy. Wait a second. What does Lefty's email client has to do with Seif's candidacy? behdad > Kudos for your sense of humor (or is it just plain provocation ?). > > Xav ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.24.0.100205 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 08:41:19 -0700 Subject: FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy From: "Lefty (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQFA2QBsoQg==?= )" I find it quite amusing that you're using a Microsoft client on an Apple pc to defend your GNOME candidacy. Kudos for your sense of humor (or is it just plain provocation ?). Xav ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 09:38 -0700, Lefty (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQFA2QBsoQg==?= ) wrote: > Xav apparently needs to examine the headers > first for evidence of lurking "shill"-hood or something of that sort. Sometimes the apparences are wrong. Evolution just shows me the mailer along with the From, To and Subject headers. I don't dig in headers of random people's mail. Your subject + mailer-agent just caught my eye. > Well played, Xav. Well played. Apparently you were waiting for it. I'm happy if I've been useful to you. You're welcome. Xav ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 09:38 -0700, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote: > > > The purity of the GNOME community is at risk! I'd call for the > immediate > institution of filters on the mailing list so as to dump any messages > which > someone might have had the temerity to send from an unapproved email > client, > or via an unapproved operating system right in the bit bucket so as to > spare > Xav, and others who feel similarly, any future agonies of this sort. I wouldn't be happy to see this kind of sarcasm being used by people running the Foundation, if they happen to disagree with other members. Claudio ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
On 6/1/10 9:18 AM, "Xavier Bestel" wrote: > User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.24.0.100205 > Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 08:41:19 -0700 > Subject: FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy > From: "Lefty (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQFA2QBsoQg==?= )" > > I find it quite amusing that you're using a Microsoft client on an Apple > pc to defend your GNOME candidacy. > Kudos for your sense of humor (or is it just plain provocation ?). > > Xav > For my part, I find it quite funny (not "funny ha-ha", but "funny weird") the way that people subject others to pointless litmus tests, something we're unfortunately way to prone to do in this community. Rather than judge the content of an email message, Xav apparently needs to examine the headers first for evidence of lurking "shill"-hood or something of that sort. By doing so, we ensure that GNOME can become as insular and inwardly-looking as possible. After all, we certainly wouldn't want to let just _anyone_ into our little club here! They might use OS X on occasion or even _Windows_! They might have an iPhone, or be unable to run sed from the command line or something, and _then_ where would we be? The purity of the GNOME community is at risk! I'd call for the immediate institution of filters on the mailing list so as to dump any messages which someone might have had the temerity to send from an unapproved email client, or via an unapproved operating system right in the bit bucket so as to spare Xav, and others who feel similarly, any future agonies of this sort. Let me be very frank with you, Xav: this sort of behavior was definitely a contributing factor to ACCESS' leaving the Advisory Board this past January, and for our lack of sponsorship for GUADEC this year and last. It was a directly contributing factor to my rescinding my offer to provide media training for potential GNOME spokespeople at GUADEC this summer. Well played, Xav. Well played. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
Sorry, "reply" rather than "reply all"... -- Forwarded Message > From: David Schlesinger > Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 08:39:59 -0700 > To: Iain > Conversation: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy > Subject: Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy > > On 6/1/10 7:38 AM, "Iain" wrote: >> >> It seems to me that your underlying belief is that there is too much >> (large) corporate influence in GNOME. Would you say that you might >> have some conflict of interest here given that your project >> (Zeitgeist) was ignored/shunned by the GNOME Shell developers? > > Iain, this seems unreasonable to me. Is anyone who decides to run for the > board who's ever had a disagreement with some group of GNOME developers or > other going to be subject to the suggestion that they have a "conflict of > interest"? > > If that's the case, I doubt we can really find a single qualified candidate. > > Everyone's got their interests and views, and (hopefully) the candidates are > candid about what their views are. I think these suggestions of "conflicts of > interest" are, honestly, a little out of line. > -- End of Forwarded Message ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
Hi! > I will just be frank here... > • Translation shifting from upstream to downstream ? > • Development infrastructure limiting upstream contribution. > • Canonical's Unity development, what does it mean for GNOME ? > • Red Hat's control over GNOME Shell ? > • Meego being a competition or a GNOME sister project ? > • Smaller companies involvement into GNOME decisions > • How much of GNOME is community driven and how much is company driven > • Is the GNOME community forced to assimilate with decisions made by > those companies? > • More... OK, you were asked to list them. Anyway, why do you think there are true? * From my point of view as part of the gtp coordination team I think translations are not shifting downstream, we rather solved most of these problems and have high-quality upstream translations. * Why do you think our infrastructure is limiting? * For the company statements IMHO despite I don't know anything about the Unity plans I think those arent' true. Could you explain? Thanks, Johannes signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Question for the candidates : money !
Hi my dear candidates, I've a question about GNOME business model and sustanability. As we have seen with the fundrising to hire a sysadmin, money is often a blocking point. The current business model seems to be donations. Do you think that donations are good ? Good enough ? Do you plan to work on this business model ? Do you have any proposals ? Thanks, Lionel ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
> > >Bring up and fix issues with GNOME that are being ignored or shunned. > > Can you list these? > I will just be frank here... > Translation shifting from upstream to downstream ? > Development infrastructure limiting upstream contribution. > Canonical's Unity development, what does it mean for GNOME ? > Red Hat's control over GNOME Shell ? > Meego being a competition or a GNOME sister project ? > Smaller companies involvement into GNOME decisions > How much of GNOME is community driven and how much is company driven > Is the GNOME community forced to assimilate with decisions made by those > companies? > > > Work on letting GNOME shell be lead by the community. > > Can you expand on what you want changed? > Currently all GNOME Shell decisions are taken by Red Hat, thus limiting the > community's technical as well as design contribution. It seems to me that your underlying belief is that there is too much (large) corporate influence in GNOME. Would you say that you might have some conflict of interest here given that your project (Zeitgeist) was ignored/shunned by the GNOME Shell developers? > > > I stand for innovation in GNOME. > > What is lacking now, and what do want to do when being part of the board? > Recently GNOME has not been attracting many new developers. It is because its > current development state doesn't allow any new innovation to settle in. > GNOME being run mostly by people representing > bigger companies no risks are being taken and thinking out of the box is > usually categorized as such. Surely one could argue that GNOME Shell is quite innovative thinking outside of the box, and that quite a large risk is being taken with it, and most of the suggestions for it that come from the community are of requests for uninnovative things; "I want a task bar", "I want applets" Or is there a potential conflict of interest here as well that Zeitgeist has not gained much traction in the community? > [Redhat or Ubuntu] could start off with a design board combining selected > and competent representatives from community and companies, whose first > objective is to rewrite the HIG. ... > I suggest starting a technical board with equal amounts of representatives > of companies as and community whose members are significantly competent for > the roles. ... > Recently GNOME has not been attracting many new developers. Yet you think the solution to attracting new developers is to wrap the processes up in red tape and technical boards or design boards? Surely Free Software is supposed to be about meritocracy, not about boards dictating how an individual project should be run. iain ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
Hi Olav, > Hello Seif, > > Reading your motivation I think I understand what you mean, but would > like to know for sure. As such, I'd appreciate if you could expand some > more on your motivation. Further, though I think I understand, I'm > purposely asking very open ended questions (to avoid suggestive ones). > > My goal is not to have a discussion on this with you or others, purely > to better understand your motivation. > > > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:59:35AM +0200, Seif Lotfy wrote: > > Motivation: > > > > My reasons for running for GNOME board are as follows: > > > > • Encourage more cooperation on design between RH and Canonical. > > What do you mean concretely (design of what)? Why RH and Canonical > specifically? > I left out Intel, Nokia, Novell and others because their main focus now is on Meego which on a design level I do not consider a GNOME project. Currently RH and Canonical both have started their own design & user experience to improve the usability of GNOME. Both however seem to be heading to the same goal but with different designs that could on a shallow level end up leaving GNOME in an diverging state (Shell vs Unity). Both should start cooperating on the design level. One could start off with a design board combining selected and competent representatives from community and companies, whose first objective is to rewrite the HIG. > > > • Avoid fragmentation by helping to build consensus around a unified > > vision for GNOME's future to prevent a GNOME divergence into 2.30 -and > > GNOME 3 base. > > What do you think is lacking now? > What is lacking is a vision of what GNOME 3 should be. Where is it heading? Who is the target of the GNOME 3 desktop? How is the current GNOME accepted by the community. There seems to be some disagreements on several issues concerning design and technical aspects, which are leading to frictions between upstream and downstream development. > > > • Bring up and fix issues with GNOME that are being ignored or > > shunned. > > Can you list these? > I will just be frank here... • Translation shifting from upstream to downstream ? • Development infrastructure limiting upstream contribution. • Canonical's Unity development, what does it mean for GNOME ? • Red Hat's control over GNOME Shell ? • Meego being a competition or a GNOME sister project ? • Smaller companies involvement into GNOME decisions • How much of GNOME is community driven and how much is company driven • Is the GNOME community forced to assimilate with decisions made by those companies? • More... > > • Work on letting GNOME shell be lead by the community. > > Can you expand on what you want changed? > Currently all GNOME Shell decisions are taken by Red Hat, thus limiting the community's technical as well as design contribution. I suggest starting a technical board with equal amounts of representatives of companies as and community whose members are significantly competent for the roles. Those should drive the technical development of GNOME Shell forward. > > > • I stand for innovation in GNOME. > > What is lacking now, and what do want to do when being part of the > board? > Recently GNOME has not been attracting many new developers. It is because its current development state doesn't allow any new innovation to settle in. GNOME being run mostly by people representing bigger companies no risks are being taken and thinking out of the box is usually categorized as such. While understandable it leaves GNOME in a state where a lot of functionalities are desired but not deployable. Innovations are usually brought up by smaller companies such as Collabora, Codethink, Landeo, Igalia and others. We should allow them more responsibilities in decision taking when it comes to GNOME's emerging technologies. > > > Don't hesitate to ask me questions when the lines are open. > > done > Hope I answered your questions. > > -- > Regards, > Olav > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > > ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
