RE: End-of-flow wildcard?

[Craig Ede]

/f, isn't it?

Craig

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 10:17 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: End-of-flow wildcard?

Anyone know if there is one? My docs don't mention it, only '$', which ain't
the same thing at all. I need to find table cell contents that end with a
'.' when they shouldn't (in a fairly large reference list).

Speaking of ends of flows, I've been reading the correspondence on Adobe's
pricing, upgrades and licensing policies with interest. As an avid use and
evangeliser of FrameMaker since version 3, I think some decisions have been
made that Adobe could come to regret.

Thanks.
-- 
Steve
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Adobe pricing policies (was: FrameMaker 12 released)

[Robert Lauriston]

It may seem like contempt, but I think they're just clueless.

They have a lot of products that have been mature for a long time, so
they have little to offer users to justify upgrading.

They have a lot of employees with stale skill sets and it's not a
company where someone with top skills would want to work. I overheard
a conversation in a restaurant in which an Adobe employee was talking
about how it was a great place to be while she figured out what to do
next in her career because they were paying her $150K and she didn't
really have to do anything.

Maybe they're not even clueless. In 2013, per SEC filings, Adobe
insiders sold 9 million shares and bought 5,000.

On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 10:38 AM, D L Reynolds  wrote:
> Adobe now seems contemptuous of its users. It’s all about what works for 
> them, users be damned. Very disappointing.
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FM12 single-source integration?

[Robert Lauriston]

The "Don’t intend to use structured authoring?" page of Adobe's FM12
promo says, "Publish to popular output formats like EPUB 3, KF8, MOBI,
WebHelp, CHM, and HTML5."

How do they accomplish that? Have they integrated a subset of RoboHelp
the way they have been integrating a subset of Acrobat for years?
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Framemaker 12

[Philo Calhoun]

I upgraded to Framemaker 12 and tested it for XHTML and epub output for a 
fairly complicated document that would choke Madcap Flare. It worked great. 
Although the cost for upgrade is high, technical publishing software does not 
have a huge user base and tends to be expensive. For instance, I owned Flare up 
until last Fall and paid about a thousand dollars a year for the maintenance 
contract. The software was buggy for tables, vector graphics, and sometimes 
with simple imports. Webworks epublisher is expensive in its yearly contract. 
So compared with other alternatives, Framemaker is not particularly expensive 
and I have found it a lot more stable than the alternatives.
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FrameMaker 12 Launch: Early reviews of Tech Comm Suite 5 and FM 12

[Maxwell Hoffmann]

The link in Tweet below has link to some of the first reviews collected by 
TechWhirl:

Early Reviews for #Adobe Tech Comm Suite 5 and FrameMaker 12 from TechWhirl - 
http://bit.ly/1cy87qc



Maxwell Hoffmann |  Product  Evangelist  |  Adobe  |  p. 503.336.5952  |  c. 
503.805.3719  |  mhoff...@adobe.com
http://twitter.com/maxwellhoffmann -  
http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann  blogs.adobe.com/techcomm
Upcoming webinars http://adobe.ly/Pbz6xIRecorded webinars: 
http://adobe.ly/Pbdp0J


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Re: FrameMaker 12 released

[Robert Lauriston]

I don't understand why you would stop using it for new docs. Most of
the software I've bought I've never upgraded.

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
> My comment was that at some time, I could simply stop upgrading and continue 
> to use that last version (as you had mentioned in a post last year) rather 
> than change all the older documents to a new tool.
>
> We simply chose to stop at different versions, I suppose ... for me, it is 
> version 11, for you, an earlier version, I guess.
>
> Z
>
>> I don't understand your reasoning. I don't need upgrades to use FrameMaker. 
>> It has been going downhill from version 9 on.
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
> (syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
>> Yeah, I would love to continue to use FrameMaker, but $399 for
>> upgrades is too high - the older upgrades at $199 were more easily 
>> justifiable. I will simply use FM 11 for maintaining my old documents (as 
>> Robert Lauriston as mentioned that I should do) and have already switched to 
>> LaTeX for all my new work. The price and upgrade "costs" of LaTeX - after a 
>> 2 month learning curve - are infinitely better for _my_ needs! :)
>>
>
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RE: FrameMaker 12 released

[Maxwell Hoffmann]

>Here, I used 2 years as a duration model. Although it would probably be longer 
>and more expensive, since upgrades for FrameMaker don't 
>seem to occur every year now. Else I would have gotten at least one - sigh - 
>during my 2 years "license upgrade" contract that expired before 
>FM 12 was released.

>Syed,


Syed, FYI -- FrameMaker 12 is the third release to come out in approximately an 
18 month cycle. For those who are regular users of FrameMaker and who are 
considering the subscription, take into account that you get a new full point 
release at no extra charge, and with no SW maintenance fees. Overall, for many 
people it does come out more economical.



Maxwell Hoffmann |  Product  Evangelist  |  Adobe  |  p. 503.336.5952  |  c. 
503.805.3719  |  mhoff...@adobe.com 
http://twitter.com/maxwellhoffmann -  
http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann  blogs.adobe.com/techcomm
Upcoming webinars http://adobe.ly/Pbz6xIRecorded webinars: 
http://adobe.ly/Pbdp0J



-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain 
(syed.hos...@aeris.net)
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 4:22 PM
To: Robert Lauriston; Framers
Subject: RE: FrameMaker 12 released


I don't plan to do the subscription model for FrameMaker 12 either. It does not 
make sense for me - even if I were continuing with FrameMaker.

It only makes _some_ sense for new users of FrameMaker, or folks still on 
versions _prior_ to version 10, where the "upgrade" cost of $999 is the same as 
full price.

For example, after two years, the cost (24 * $29.99 = $719.76) is _much_ higher 
than the cost of a single upgrade to FM 12 from FM 11. And, after three years, 
it would be more than the list price of a full license.

Here, I used 2 years as a duration model. Although it would probably be longer 
and more expensive, since upgrades for FrameMaker don't seem to occur every 
year now. Else I would have gotten at least one - sigh - during my 2 years 
"license upgrade" contract that expired before FM 12 was released.

Z

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Re: FrameMaker 12 released

[Robert Lauriston]

I don't understand your reasoning. I don't need upgrades to use
FrameMaker. It has been going downhill from version 9 on.

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
> Yeah, I would love to continue to use FrameMaker, but $399 for upgrades is 
> too high - the older upgrades at $199 were more easily justifiable. I will 
> simply use FM 11 for maintaining my old documents (as Robert Lauriston as 
> mentioned that I should do) and have already switched to LaTeX for all my new 
> work. The price and upgrade "costs" of LaTeX - after a 2 month learning curve 
> - are infinitely better for _my_ needs! :)
>
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RE: FrameMaker 12 released

[Maxwell Hoffmann]

FYI -- some misunderstandings have occurred because the website uses the word 
"upgrade" next to FM7: it is full product price, because there is no real 
"upgrade" from SW that was released 12 years ago. Adobe did have an aggressive 
discount to upgrade from FM7 to FM11 over a year ago. We promoted it with a 
multi-part blog series that included videos to show FM7 methods vs. FM11. It 
was advertised as "your last chance" to upgrade.

Not trying to shake any trees. Just being realistic about the options available 
to any of us on any SW that we purchased more than 5 years ago.



Maxwell Hoffmann |  Product  Evangelist  |  Adobe  |  p. 503.336.5952  |  c. 
503.805.3719  |  mhoff...@adobe.com 
http://twitter.com/maxwellhoffmann -  
http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann  blogs.adobe.com/techcomm
Upcoming webinars http://adobe.ly/Pbz6xIRecorded webinars: 
http://adobe.ly/Pbdp0J



-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 11:11 AM
To: Framers
Subject: Re: FrameMaker 12 released

If you buy a subscription and don't renew at the end of the year, the license 
is invalid and FrameMaker stops working.

If you buy the $1000 full version or a $400 or $600 upgrade, the license is 
perpetual. The only thing that expires is the support agreement.

I don't see why anyone would abandon FrameMaker just because the upgrades are a 
bad value.
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RE: FrameMaker 12 released

[Craig Ede]

Around here, contract technical writers are making enough money per hour
that the upgrade cost from to TCS 5 from TCS 3 or FM 10 would be less than
25 billable hours of work. (And some of these contractors are pretty limited
in how much they know about the tools they are using or even how to be
productive producing documentation.) Over a two year product cycle that
works out to be 1.15% of their income, figuring full-time weeks over two
years.

Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

For a guy like me, who spends about half his time working on-site for
companies that provide me with Adobe tools they have licensed, it is
important to have up-to-date knowledge of the tools even if the company I'm
working for is using an older version. It certainly helps them if I can tell
them that some task is made quicker and easier for the cost of an upgrade.

I look forward to investigating Frame 12 (and the rest of Tech Suite 5)

BTW: I agree that the online license validation Adobe has is a pain in the
butt. On a recent trip to Mexico my Creative Suite 6 products wanted me, on
startup, to agree to the 30 day trial period. The suite has been on the same
laptop for a year and a half. What the hell triggered that? The change of
location? Ridiculous!

Craig

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End-of-flow wildcard?

[Craig Ede]

/f, isn't it?

Craig

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 10:17 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: End-of-flow wildcard?

Anyone know if there is one? My docs don't mention it, only '$', which ain't
the same thing at all. I need to find table cell contents that end with a
'.' when they shouldn't (in a fairly large reference list).

Speaking of ends of flows, I've been reading the correspondence on Adobe's
pricing, upgrades and licensing policies with interest. As an avid use and
evangeliser of FrameMaker since version 3, I think some decisions have been
made that Adobe could come to regret.

Thanks.
-- 
Steve
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End-of-flow wildcard?

[Steve Rickaby]

Anyone know if there is one? My docs don't mention it, only '$', which ain't 
the same thing at all. I need to find table cell contents that end with a '.' 
when they shouldn't (in a fairly large reference list).

Speaking of ends of flows, I've been reading the correspondence on Adobe's 
pricing, upgrades and licensing policies with interest. As an avid use and 
evangeliser of FrameMaker since version 3, I think some decisions have been 
made that Adobe could come to regret.

Thanks.
-- 
Steve

FrameMaker 12 released

[D L Reynolds]

I?m a TCS user, currently running TCS 3.5. I didn?t do the TCS 4.0 upgrade. The 
cost of upgrading from v3.5 to v5 is $1200! Count me out.

I recently switched from Captivate to Camtasia because Adobe would have charged 
me full price to upgrade just that component of the Technical Communications 
Suite ? as though I weren?t a registered Captivate user at all. 

Re: Creative Suite ? I, too, have stopped upgrading with CS6 and so have my 
corporate clients. Not at all interested in the cloud model.

I?ve been using Adobe products from the beginning: Photoshop 1, Illustrator 88. 
Still have those apps and the original slipcases (remember when software came 
in a nice slipcase ? with a manual no less!). But Adobe now seems contemptuous 
of its users. It?s all about what works for them, users be damned. Very 
disappointing.

-dr

Adobe pricing policies (was: FrameMaker 12 released)

[Robert Lauriston]

It may seem like contempt, but I think they're just clueless.

They have a lot of products that have been mature for a long time, so
they have little to offer users to justify upgrading.

They have a lot of employees with stale skill sets and it's not a
company where someone with top skills would want to work. I overheard
a conversation in a restaurant in which an Adobe employee was talking
about how it was a great place to be while she figured out what to do
next in her career because they were paying her $150K and she didn't
really have to do anything.

Maybe they're not even clueless. In 2013, per SEC filings, Adobe
insiders sold 9 million shares and bought 5,000.

On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 10:38 AM, D L Reynolds  wrote:
> Adobe now seems contemptuous of its users. It?s all about what works for 
> them, users be damned. Very disappointing.

Re: FrameMaker 12 released

[D L Reynolds]

I’m a TCS user, currently running TCS 3.5. I didn’t do the TCS 4.0 upgrade. The 
cost of upgrading from v3.5 to v5 is $1200! Count me out.

I recently switched from Captivate to Camtasia because Adobe would have charged 
me full price to upgrade just that component of the Technical Communications 
Suite — as though I weren’t a registered Captivate user at all. 

Re: Creative Suite — I, too, have stopped upgrading with CS6 and so have my 
corporate clients. Not at all interested in the cloud model.

I’ve been using Adobe products from the beginning: Photoshop 1, Illustrator 88. 
Still have those apps and the original slipcases (remember when software came 
in a nice slipcase — with a manual no less!). But Adobe now seems contemptuous 
of its users. It’s all about what works for them, users be damned. Very 
disappointing.

-dr
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FM12 single-source integration?

[Robert Lauriston]

The "Don?t intend to use structured authoring?" page of Adobe's FM12
promo says, "Publish to popular output formats like EPUB 3, KF8, MOBI,
WebHelp, CHM, and HTML5."

How do they accomplish that? Have they integrated a subset of RoboHelp
the way they have been integrating a subset of Acrobat for years?

End-of-flow wildcard?

[Steve Rickaby]

Anyone know if there is one? My docs don't mention it, only '$', which ain't 
the same thing at all. I need to find table cell contents that end with a '.' 
when they shouldn't (in a fairly large reference list).

Speaking of ends of flows, I've been reading the correspondence on Adobe's 
pricing, upgrades and licensing policies with interest. As an avid use and 
evangeliser of FrameMaker since version 3, I think some decisions have been 
made that Adobe could come to regret.

Thanks.
-- 
Steve
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