Re: structured import and pgftag fonts
Noah, In your position, given one case that works and one that doesn't, I would simplify the test document, EDD, DTD, template, and read/write rules in stages until I found the significant difference between them. --Lynne At 07:41 PM 10/18/2006, Noah Evans wrote: Well, I'm inching towards understanding what the problem is. The problem is definitely caused by some sort of sketchy interaction between frame's structured import and the formats in the template. I took a completely different unstructured manual with different paragraph tags, purged it and turned it into a template for my structured application. Then I set the paragraph tag of my root to a 30 point combined font and imported. When I did this it worked fine, it didn't put character formats on any of my mif strings. This let the combined font and the paragraph work normally. So the question becomes: What sort of things could my template have in it that would cause it to insert character formats like that? It's not the edd, otherwise my bare template would have had the same problem. I'm still stumped. Noah On 10/17/06, Steve Cavanaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes, I'm discovering the same thing here. Frame seems to want to punish us for not having ACM installed... Frame's idiotic obsession with the Times font is beginning to really annoy me. Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Noah Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:44 PM To: Steve Cavanaugh Cc: Rick Quatro; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts Hey Steve, I changed the ini file earlier, but the problem seems to be that no matter what I do, when I import all of the text fonts are being set by a blank character format. So even if I set the data to what I want in the paragraph tag, the blank character format that is inserted during import overrides it. What's strange about this is that when I insert the elements directly through frame and edit them by hand, frame doesn't insert the character format. It seems to be an issue with the import. One more thing, I just remembered something regarding the ini file. Even when I set the default font to Arial, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn in maker.ini when I check the strings in the executable in memory next to the string "Default Font" the string Times New Roman, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn is there instead. Could just be a default defined as a constant, but no matter what I do, from purging all definitions of Times from the mif or changing maker.ini it just won't go away during import. Noah On 10/16/06, Steve Cavanaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from > http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass > Convert Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I > thought ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini > file there is a default font definition that was driving me mad here. > I would convert all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would > tell me it was making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined for anything. > It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the > variable DefaultFamily. > > > Steve Cavanaugh > Sr. Technical Writer > NAT Seattle Inc. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > m] > On Behalf Of Noah Evans > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM > To: Rick Quatro > Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts > > Hey Rick, framers, > > Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's > why: > > After looking through the mif and experimenting with different > formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why > it's ending up like this. > > Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves > --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone > have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can > manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the > combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. > > I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information > manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could > offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. > > Thanks for everybody's help and input, > > Noah > > > > On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Noah, > > > > I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the > XML. > > > >
structured import and pgftag fonts
Noah, In your position, given one case that works and one that doesn't, I would simplify the test document, EDD, DTD, template, and read/write rules in stages until I found the significant difference between them. --Lynne At 07:41 PM 10/18/2006, Noah Evans wrote: >Well, I'm inching towards understanding what the problem is. > >The problem is definitely caused by some sort of sketchy interaction >between frame's structured import and the formats in the template. I >took a completely different unstructured manual with different >paragraph tags, purged it and turned it into a template for my >structured application. Then I set the paragraph tag of my root to a >30 point combined font and imported. > >When I did this it worked fine, it didn't put character formats on any >of my mif strings. This let the combined font and the paragraph work >normally. > >So the question becomes: What sort of things could my template have in >it that would cause it to insert character formats like that? It's not >the edd, otherwise my bare template would have had the same problem. > >I'm still stumped. > >Noah > >On 10/17/06, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: >>Yes, I'm discovering the same thing here. Frame seems to want to punish >>us for not having ACM installed... Frame's idiotic obsession with the >>Times font is beginning to really annoy me. >> >> >>Steve Cavanaugh >>Sr. Technical Writer >>NAT Seattle Inc. >> >>-Original Message- >>From: Noah Evans [mailto:noah.evans at gmail.com] >>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:44 PM >>To: Steve Cavanaugh >>Cc: Rick Quatro; framers at lists.frameusers.com >>Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts >> >>Hey Steve, >> >>I changed the ini file earlier, but the problem seems to be that no >>matter what I do, when I import all of the text fonts are being set by a >>blank character format. So even if I set the data to what I want in the >>paragraph tag, the blank character format that is inserted during import >>overrides it. >> >>What's strange about this is that when I insert the elements directly >>through frame and edit them by hand, frame doesn't insert the character >>format. It seems to be an issue with the import. >> >>One more thing, I just remembered something regarding the ini file. >>Even when I set the default font to Arial, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn in >>maker.ini when I check the strings in the executable in memory next to >>the string "Default Font" the string Times New Roman, Times New Roman, >>Tms Rmn is there instead. Could just be a default defined as a constant, >>but no matter what I do, from purging all definitions of Times from the >>mif or changing maker.ini it just won't go away during import. >> >>Noah >> >>On 10/16/06, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: >> > I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from >> > http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass >> > Convert Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I >> >> > thought ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini >> > file there is a default font definition that was driving me mad here. >> >> > I would convert all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would >> > tell me it was making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined >>for anything. >> > It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the >> > variable DefaultFamily. >> > >> > >> > Steve Cavanaugh >> > Sr. Technical Writer >> > NAT Seattle Inc. >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle.com at lists.frameusers.com >> > [mailto:framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle.com at lists.frameusers.co >> > > m] >> > On Behalf Of Noah Evans >> > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM >> > To: Rick Quatro >> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com >> > Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts >> > >> > Hey Rick, framers, >> > >> > Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's >> > why: >> > >> > After looking through the mif and experimenting with different >> > formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why >> > it's ending up like this. >> > >> > Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves >> > --overriding t
structured import and pgftag fonts
Well, I'm inching towards understanding what the problem is. The problem is definitely caused by some sort of sketchy interaction between frame's structured import and the formats in the template. I took a completely different unstructured manual with different paragraph tags, purged it and turned it into a template for my structured application. Then I set the paragraph tag of my root to a 30 point combined font and imported. When I did this it worked fine, it didn't put character formats on any of my mif strings. This let the combined font and the paragraph work normally. So the question becomes: What sort of things could my template have in it that would cause it to insert character formats like that? It's not the edd, otherwise my bare template would have had the same problem. I'm still stumped. Noah On 10/17/06, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: > Yes, I'm discovering the same thing here. Frame seems to want to punish > us for not having ACM installed... Frame's idiotic obsession with the > Times font is beginning to really annoy me. > > > Steve Cavanaugh > Sr. Technical Writer > NAT Seattle Inc. > > -Original Message- > From: Noah Evans [mailto:noah.evans at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:44 PM > To: Steve Cavanaugh > Cc: Rick Quatro; framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts > > Hey Steve, > > I changed the ini file earlier, but the problem seems to be that no > matter what I do, when I import all of the text fonts are being set by a > blank character format. So even if I set the data to what I want in the > paragraph tag, the blank character format that is inserted during import > overrides it. > > What's strange about this is that when I insert the elements directly > through frame and edit them by hand, frame doesn't insert the character > format. It seems to be an issue with the import. > > One more thing, I just remembered something regarding the ini file. > Even when I set the default font to Arial, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn in > maker.ini when I check the strings in the executable in memory next to > the string "Default Font" the string Times New Roman, Times New Roman, > Tms Rmn is there instead. Could just be a default defined as a constant, > but no matter what I do, from purging all definitions of Times from the > mif or changing maker.ini it just won't go away during import. > > Noah > > On 10/16/06, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: > > I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from > > http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass > > Convert Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I > > > thought ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini > > file there is a default font definition that was driving me mad here. > > > I would convert all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would > > tell me it was making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined > for anything. > > It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the > > variable DefaultFamily. > > > > > > Steve Cavanaugh > > Sr. Technical Writer > > NAT Seattle Inc. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle.com at lists.frameusers.com > > [mailto:framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle.com at lists.frameusers.co > > m] > > On Behalf Of Noah Evans > > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM > > To: Rick Quatro > > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > > Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts > > > > Hey Rick, framers, > > > > Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's > > why: > > > > After looking through the mif and experimenting with different > > formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why > > it's ending up like this. > > > > Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves > > --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone > > have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can > > manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the > > combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. > > > > I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information > > manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could > > offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in > that font data. > > > > Thanks for everybody's help and input, > > > > Noah > >
RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
That's not what I said. I changed every font to Arial in every file in my book via MIF, using search/replace. If I understand MIF, that should have changed everything - Master Pages, Formats, etc. Upon opening those files, I got warnings that Frame was going to have to substitute Times New Roman for Times. Doing another MIF export, in several places I found Times where I explicitly changed them to Arial. Now this was all before I discovered that fminit folder and its magical custom file. That file was full of Times, so I assume that may be the source of my trouble. I'm not real clear yet on when that template takes precedence or is applied to existing files. I do see that it is documented in the book, so I'll have to read up on that file. Thanks for your help! Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Lynne A. Price [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:52 AM To: Steve Cavanaugh Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts) At 11:35 AM 10/18/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: >Not only did it not stop it, Frame changed a number of them back to >Times after I reimported the files. Steve, Well, if you change something and then import formats from a file that doesn't have the changes, you should expect the original settings to be restored ... --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
Lynne, thanks! You probably missed my other tantrum about this subject - the one where I described exporting every file in my book to MIF and doing a search & replace for every font name in there. All of my files use one font - Arial. My wrongheaded thinking was that should stop all this font tomfoolery since every Windows machine has Arial. Boy was I wrong. Not only did it not stop it, Frame changed a number of them back to Times after I reimported the files. This is the part where I become annoyed... :) . Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Lynne A. Price [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:04 AM To: Steve Cavanaugh; Noah Evans Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts) Steve, Sounds like your book has references to fonts that you have at work but not at home. Those fonts could appear on master or reference pages, or in table formats that you are not using. They could also be used in graphics. Looking through a MIF version of the file is a good way to find them. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
Well I appreciate that. It seems there are half a dozen places you can go to tell Frame what you want relative to font usage. It's never really clear to me which one of those is in control. I did manage to finally get Frame to stop pestering me about having to substitute for Times here, but when I took my book home to work on, Frame started throwing errors for fonts I've never included, intended, touched, or otherwise had on my system. I must have wasted a couple of hours there trying to make Frame behave and stop throwing error messages at me, but I never did find the source of its displeasure with my setup there. I'll have a look at that custom file on that machine - it could be what is instigating the angst. Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Lynne A. Price [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:00 AM To: Steve Cavanaugh; Noah Evans Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts) At 07:10 AM 10/17/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: > Frame's idiotic obsession with the >Times font is beginning to really annoy me. Steve, You haven't told us what operations you are performing that cause FM to use the unwanted fonts, but the software does not rely on any particular fonts. There are, however, a few configuration files that may be causing whatever symptoms are annoying you. For example, on Windows, there's a folder called fminit within your main FM directory (usually, c:\Program Files\Adobe\FrameMaker 7.x). In the fminit folder, there's a file called custom that is the basis for new blank paper documents (including Portrait and Landscape). FM won't let you open this file, but you can rename it, edit it, save it, and then change the name back to the original name. Changes you can make include changing all fonts that you don't want to use. Of course, it's wise to backup all configuration files before you edit them. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
At 11:35 AM 10/18/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: Not only did it not stop it, Frame changed a number of them back to Times after I reimported the files. Steve, Well, if you change something and then import formats from a file that doesn't have the changes, you should expect the original settings to be restored ... --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
At 10:19 AM 10/18/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: Well I appreciate that. It seems there are half a dozen places you can go to tell Frame what you want relative to font usage. It's never really clear to me which one of those is in control. I did manage to finally get Frame to stop pestering me about having to substitute for Times here, but when I took my book home to work on, Frame started throwing errors for fonts I've never included, intended, touched, or otherwise had on my system. I must have wasted a couple of hours there trying to make Frame behave and stop throwing error messages at me, but I never did find the source of its displeasure with my setup there. I'll have a look at that custom file on that machine - it could be what is instigating the angst. Steve, Sounds like your book has references to fonts that you have at work but not at home. Those fonts could appear on master or reference pages, or in table formats that you are not using. They could also be used in graphics. Looking through a MIF version of the file is a good way to find them. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
At 07:10 AM 10/17/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: Frame's idiotic obsession with the Times font is beginning to really annoy me. Steve, You haven't told us what operations you are performing that cause FM to use the unwanted fonts, but the software does not rely on any particular fonts. There are, however, a few configuration files that may be causing whatever symptoms are annoying you. For example, on Windows, there's a folder called fminit within your main FM directory (usually, c:\Program Files\Adobe\FrameMaker 7.x). In the fminit folder, there's a file called custom that is the basis for new blank paper documents (including Portrait and Landscape). FM won't let you open this file, but you can rename it, edit it, save it, and then change the name back to the original name. Changes you can make include changing all fonts that you don't want to use. Of course, it's wise to backup all configuration files before you edit them. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: structured import and pgftag fonts
Well, I'm inching towards understanding what the problem is. The problem is definitely caused by some sort of sketchy interaction between frame's structured import and the formats in the template. I took a completely different unstructured manual with different paragraph tags, purged it and turned it into a template for my structured application. Then I set the paragraph tag of my root to a 30 point combined font and imported. When I did this it worked fine, it didn't put character formats on any of my mif strings. This let the combined font and the paragraph work normally. So the question becomes: What sort of things could my template have in it that would cause it to insert character formats like that? It's not the edd, otherwise my bare template would have had the same problem. I'm still stumped. Noah On 10/17/06, Steve Cavanaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes, I'm discovering the same thing here. Frame seems to want to punish us for not having ACM installed... Frame's idiotic obsession with the Times font is beginning to really annoy me. Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Noah Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:44 PM To: Steve Cavanaugh Cc: Rick Quatro; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts Hey Steve, I changed the ini file earlier, but the problem seems to be that no matter what I do, when I import all of the text fonts are being set by a blank character format. So even if I set the data to what I want in the paragraph tag, the blank character format that is inserted during import overrides it. What's strange about this is that when I insert the elements directly through frame and edit them by hand, frame doesn't insert the character format. It seems to be an issue with the import. One more thing, I just remembered something regarding the ini file. Even when I set the default font to Arial, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn in maker.ini when I check the strings in the executable in memory next to the string "Default Font" the string Times New Roman, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn is there instead. Could just be a default defined as a constant, but no matter what I do, from purging all definitions of Times from the mif or changing maker.ini it just won't go away during import. Noah On 10/16/06, Steve Cavanaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from > http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass > Convert Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I > thought ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini > file there is a default font definition that was driving me mad here. > I would convert all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would > tell me it was making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined for anything. > It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the > variable DefaultFamily. > > > Steve Cavanaugh > Sr. Technical Writer > NAT Seattle Inc. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > m] > On Behalf Of Noah Evans > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM > To: Rick Quatro > Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts > > Hey Rick, framers, > > Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's > why: > > After looking through the mif and experimenting with different > formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why > it's ending up like this. > > Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves > --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone > have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can > manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the > combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. > > I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information > manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could > offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. > > Thanks for everybody's help and input, > > Noah > > > > On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Noah, > > > > I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the > XML. > > > > 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. > > > > 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check > > the > > > Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. > > > > Rick Quatro > > Carmen Publishing >
font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
That's not what I said. I changed every font to Arial in every file in my book via MIF, using search/replace. If I understand MIF, that should have changed everything - Master Pages, Formats, etc. Upon opening those files, I got warnings that Frame was going to have to substitute Times New Roman for Times. Doing another MIF export, in several places I found Times where I explicitly changed them to Arial. Now this was all before I discovered that fminit folder and its magical custom file. That file was full of Times, so I assume that may be the source of my trouble. I'm not real clear yet on when that template takes precedence or is applied to existing files. I do see that it is documented in the book, so I'll have to read up on that file. Thanks for your help! Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Lynne A. Price [mailto:lpr...@txstruct.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:52 AM To: Steve Cavanaugh Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts) At 11:35 AM 10/18/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: >Not only did it not stop it, Frame changed a number of them back to >Times after I reimported the files. Steve, Well, if you change something and then import formats from a file that doesn't have the changes, you should expect the original settings to be restored ... --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training lprice at txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284
font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
At 11:35 AM 10/18/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: >Not only did it not stop it, Frame changed a number of them back >to Times after I reimported the files. Steve, Well, if you change something and then import formats from a file that doesn't have the changes, you should expect the original settings to be restored ... --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training lprice at txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284
font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
Lynne, thanks! You probably missed my other tantrum about this subject - the one where I described exporting every file in my book to MIF and doing a search & replace for every font name in there. All of my files use one font - Arial. My wrongheaded thinking was that should stop all this font tomfoolery since every Windows machine has Arial. Boy was I wrong. Not only did it not stop it, Frame changed a number of them back to Times after I reimported the files. This is the part where I become annoyed... :) . Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Lynne A. Price [mailto:lpr...@txstruct.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:04 AM To: Steve Cavanaugh; Noah Evans Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts) Steve, Sounds like your book has references to fonts that you have at work but not at home. Those fonts could appear on master or reference pages, or in table formats that you are not using. They could also be used in graphics. Looking through a MIF version of the file is a good way to find them. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training lprice at txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284
font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
At 10:19 AM 10/18/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: >Well I appreciate that. It seems there are half a dozen places you can >go to tell Frame what you want relative to font usage. It's never >really clear to me which one of those is in control. I did manage to >finally get Frame to stop pestering me about having to substitute for >Times here, but when I took my book home to work on, Frame started >throwing errors for fonts I've never included, intended, touched, or >otherwise had on my system. I must have wasted a couple of hours there >trying to make Frame behave and stop throwing error messages at me, but >I never did find the source of its displeasure with my setup there. >I'll have a look at that custom file on that machine - it could be what >is instigating the angst. Steve, Sounds like your book has references to fonts that you have at work but not at home. Those fonts could appear on master or reference pages, or in table formats that you are not using. They could also be used in graphics. Looking through a MIF version of the file is a good way to find them. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training lprice at txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284
font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
Well I appreciate that. It seems there are half a dozen places you can go to tell Frame what you want relative to font usage. It's never really clear to me which one of those is in control. I did manage to finally get Frame to stop pestering me about having to substitute for Times here, but when I took my book home to work on, Frame started throwing errors for fonts I've never included, intended, touched, or otherwise had on my system. I must have wasted a couple of hours there trying to make Frame behave and stop throwing error messages at me, but I never did find the source of its displeasure with my setup there. I'll have a look at that custom file on that machine - it could be what is instigating the angst. Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Lynne A. Price [mailto:lpr...@txstruct.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:00 AM To: Steve Cavanaugh; Noah Evans Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts) At 07:10 AM 10/17/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: > Frame's idiotic obsession with the >Times font is beginning to really annoy me. Steve, You haven't told us what operations you are performing that cause FM to use the unwanted fonts, but the software does not rely on any particular fonts. There are, however, a few configuration files that may be causing whatever symptoms are annoying you. For example, on Windows, there's a folder called fminit within your main FM directory (usually, c:\Program Files\Adobe\FrameMaker 7.x). In the fminit folder, there's a file called custom that is the basis for new blank paper documents (including Portrait and Landscape). FM won't let you open this file, but you can rename it, edit it, save it, and then change the name back to the original name. Changes you can make include changing all fonts that you don't want to use. Of course, it's wise to backup all configuration files before you edit them. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training lprice at txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284
font "obsession" (was structured import and pgftag fonts)
At 07:10 AM 10/17/2006, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: > Frame's idiotic obsession with the >Times font is beginning to really annoy me. Steve, You haven't told us what operations you are performing that cause FM to use the unwanted fonts, but the software does not rely on any particular fonts. There are, however, a few configuration files that may be causing whatever symptoms are annoying you. For example, on Windows, there's a folder called fminit within your main FM directory (usually, c:\Program Files\Adobe\FrameMaker 7.x). In the fminit folder, there's a file called custom that is the basis for new blank paper documents (including Portrait and Landscape). FM won't let you open this file, but you can rename it, edit it, save it, and then change the name back to the original name. Changes you can make include changing all fonts that you don't want to use. Of course, it's wise to backup all configuration files before you edit them. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training lprice at txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284
RE: structured import and pgftag fonts
Yes, I'm discovering the same thing here. Frame seems to want to punish us for not having ACM installed... Frame's idiotic obsession with the Times font is beginning to really annoy me. Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Noah Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:44 PM To: Steve Cavanaugh Cc: Rick Quatro; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts Hey Steve, I changed the ini file earlier, but the problem seems to be that no matter what I do, when I import all of the text fonts are being set by a blank character format. So even if I set the data to what I want in the paragraph tag, the blank character format that is inserted during import overrides it. What's strange about this is that when I insert the elements directly through frame and edit them by hand, frame doesn't insert the character format. It seems to be an issue with the import. One more thing, I just remembered something regarding the ini file. Even when I set the default font to Arial, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn in maker.ini when I check the strings in the executable in memory next to the string "Default Font" the string Times New Roman, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn is there instead. Could just be a default defined as a constant, but no matter what I do, from purging all definitions of Times from the mif or changing maker.ini it just won't go away during import. Noah On 10/16/06, Steve Cavanaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from > http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass > Convert Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I > thought ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini > file there is a default font definition that was driving me mad here. > I would convert all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would > tell me it was making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined for anything. > It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the > variable DefaultFamily. > > > Steve Cavanaugh > Sr. Technical Writer > NAT Seattle Inc. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > m] > On Behalf Of Noah Evans > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM > To: Rick Quatro > Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts > > Hey Rick, framers, > > Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's > why: > > After looking through the mif and experimenting with different > formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why > it's ending up like this. > > Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves > --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone > have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can > manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the > combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. > > I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information > manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could > offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. > > Thanks for everybody's help and input, > > Noah > > > > On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Noah, > > > > I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the > XML. > > > > 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. > > > > 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check > > the > > > Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. > > > > Rick Quatro > > Carmen Publishing > > 585-659-8267 > > www.frameexpert.com > > > > > > > Hey all, > > > > > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. > > > When I import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph > > > tags(which are assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the > > > pgftag bar and menu, but the fonts just don't apply for some > > > reason). They seem to be inheriting the font information from the > > > root element instead. > > > > > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the > > > pgftag correctly. > > > > > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Noah > > > ___
structured import and pgftag fonts
Lynne, Sorry for being unclear. What I mean is that during structured import, frame is inserting a nameless character format that sets the Japanese and English fonts even if you've already defined a paragraph tag for that element in the edd. This blank character tag is placed right before the actual string mif element instead of being defined at a higher level. Doing this gives it precedence over anything else you may have defined. What's even weirder is that when I insert elements manually the character tags aren't inserted and the formatting is correctly derived from the paragraph tag. I tried your advice and made a one element structured application that applied a paragraph formatting but I ran into the same problem. Frame still throws in that character tag which sets the text font(note that the font size, width etc... are derived from the paragraph tag correctly, only the font is being overridden). Could it be that frame expects you to do things the "right" way and set up your inheritance manually instead of using paragraph tags? So, as far as I can tell, it's not a problem of the context being wrong so much as that frames structured import is doing something that I don't understand at all. It could be that I just don't understand the nuances of how inheritance in structured import works though. Noah On 10/17/06, Lynne A. Price wrote: > Noah, >I don't quite follow what is happening here, and I don't understand what > you mean by FM "inserting font data on the strings themselves". Do you mean > that if you import the same element hierarchy with different text you get a > different font? > >In general, to debug problems in which I don't understand what fonts are > being applied, I recommend you first check whether File > Struct Tools > > Show Element Context provides any clues as to what is happening. > >If not, try creating a test application in which the EDD defines only > one element with a general rule of and a text format rule that > applies the combined font that your current XML import does not apply. Can > you import successfully with this test application? If so, the next step is > to figure out the difference between the test application and the actual > one. It may be helpful to iterate over progressively simpler versions of > the original application until you pinpoint where it fails. > --Lynne > > At 09:24 PM 10/15/2006, Noah Evans wrote: > >Hey Rick, framers, > > > >Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's why: > > > >After looking through the mif and experimenting with different > >formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why > >it's ending up like this. > > > >Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves > >--overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone > >have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can > >manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the > >combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. > > > >I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information > >manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could > >offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in > >that font data. > > > >Thanks for everybody's help and input, > > > >Noah > > > > > > > >On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro wrote: > >> Hi Noah, > >> > >>I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. > >> > >>1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. > >> > >>2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the > >>Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. > >> > >>Rick Quatro > >>Carmen Publishing > >>585-659-8267 > >> www.frameexpert.com > >> > >> > >> > Hey all, > >> > > >> > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I > >> > import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which > >> > are > >> > assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, > >> > but > >> > the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting > >> > the > >> > font information from the root element instead. > >> > > >> > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag > >> > correctly. > >> > > >> > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > > >> > Noah > >> > ___ > >> > >___ > > > > > >You are currently subscribed to Framers as lprice at txstruct.com. > > > >Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at > >lists.frameusers.com > >or visit > >http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lprice%40txstruct.com > > > >Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit > >http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > Lynne A. Price > T
structured import and pgftag fonts
Hey Steve, I changed the ini file earlier, but the problem seems to be that no matter what I do, when I import all of the text fonts are being set by a blank character format. So even if I set the data to what I want in the paragraph tag, the blank character format that is inserted during import overrides it. What's strange about this is that when I insert the elements directly through frame and edit them by hand, frame doesn't insert the character format. It seems to be an issue with the import. One more thing, I just remembered something regarding the ini file. Even when I set the default font to Arial, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn in maker.ini when I check the strings in the executable in memory next to the string "Default Font" the string Times New Roman, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn is there instead. Could just be a default defined as a constant, but no matter what I do, from purging all definitions of Times from the mif or changing maker.ini it just won't go away during import. Noah On 10/16/06, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: > I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from > http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass Convert > Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I thought > ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini file there is > a default font definition that was driving me mad here. I would convert > all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would tell me it was > making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined for anything. > It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the variable > DefaultFamily. > > > Steve Cavanaugh > Sr. Technical Writer > NAT Seattle Inc. > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle.com at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle.com at lists.frameusers.com] > On Behalf Of Noah Evans > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM > To: Rick Quatro > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts > > Hey Rick, framers, > > Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's > why: > > After looking through the mif and experimenting with different > formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why > it's ending up like this. > > Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves > --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone > have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can manually > set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the combined fonts > too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. > > I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information manually, > but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could offer me some > ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. > > Thanks for everybody's help and input, > > Noah > > > > On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro wrote: > > Hi Noah, > > > > I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the > XML. > > > > 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. > > > > 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the > > > Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. > > > > Rick Quatro > > Carmen Publishing > > 585-659-8267 > > www.frameexpert.com > > > > > > > Hey all, > > > > > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. > > > When I import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph > > > tags(which are assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the > > > pgftag bar and menu, but the fonts just don't apply for some > > > reason). They seem to be inheriting the font information from the > > > root element instead. > > > > > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the > > > pgftag correctly. > > > > > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Noah > > > ___ > > > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as scavanaugh at nat-seattle.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/scavanaugh%40nat-sea > ttle.com > > Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >
structured import and pgftag fonts
Yes, I'm discovering the same thing here. Frame seems to want to punish us for not having ACM installed... Frame's idiotic obsession with the Times font is beginning to really annoy me. Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: Noah Evans [mailto:noah.ev...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 4:44 PM To: Steve Cavanaugh Cc: Rick Quatro; framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts Hey Steve, I changed the ini file earlier, but the problem seems to be that no matter what I do, when I import all of the text fonts are being set by a blank character format. So even if I set the data to what I want in the paragraph tag, the blank character format that is inserted during import overrides it. What's strange about this is that when I insert the elements directly through frame and edit them by hand, frame doesn't insert the character format. It seems to be an issue with the import. One more thing, I just remembered something regarding the ini file. Even when I set the default font to Arial, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn in maker.ini when I check the strings in the executable in memory next to the string "Default Font" the string Times New Roman, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn is there instead. Could just be a default defined as a constant, but no matter what I do, from purging all definitions of Times from the mif or changing maker.ini it just won't go away during import. Noah On 10/16/06, Steve Cavanaugh wrote: > I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from > http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass > Convert Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I > thought ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini > file there is a default font definition that was driving me mad here. > I would convert all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would > tell me it was making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined for anything. > It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the > variable DefaultFamily. > > > Steve Cavanaugh > Sr. Technical Writer > NAT Seattle Inc. > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle.com at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle.com at lists.frameusers.co > m] > On Behalf Of Noah Evans > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM > To: Rick Quatro > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts > > Hey Rick, framers, > > Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's > why: > > After looking through the mif and experimenting with different > formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why > it's ending up like this. > > Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves > --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone > have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can > manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the > combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. > > I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information > manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could > offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. > > Thanks for everybody's help and input, > > Noah > > > > On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro wrote: > > Hi Noah, > > > > I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the > XML. > > > > 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. > > > > 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check > > the > > > Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. > > > > Rick Quatro > > Carmen Publishing > > 585-659-8267 > > www.frameexpert.com > > > > > > > Hey all, > > > > > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. > > > When I import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph > > > tags(which are assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the > > > pgftag bar and menu, but the fonts just don't apply for some > > > reason). They seem to be inheriting the font information from the > > > root element instead. > > > > > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the > > > pgftag correctly. > > > > > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > >
Re: structured import and pgftag fonts
Lynne, Sorry for being unclear. What I mean is that during structured import, frame is inserting a nameless character format that sets the Japanese and English fonts even if you've already defined a paragraph tag for that element in the edd. This blank character tag is placed right before the actual string mif element instead of being defined at a higher level. Doing this gives it precedence over anything else you may have defined. What's even weirder is that when I insert elements manually the character tags aren't inserted and the formatting is correctly derived from the paragraph tag. I tried your advice and made a one element structured application that applied a paragraph formatting but I ran into the same problem. Frame still throws in that character tag which sets the text font(note that the font size, width etc... are derived from the paragraph tag correctly, only the font is being overridden). Could it be that frame expects you to do things the "right" way and set up your inheritance manually instead of using paragraph tags? So, as far as I can tell, it's not a problem of the context being wrong so much as that frames structured import is doing something that I don't understand at all. It could be that I just don't understand the nuances of how inheritance in structured import works though. Noah On 10/17/06, Lynne A. Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Noah, I don't quite follow what is happening here, and I don't understand what you mean by FM "inserting font data on the strings themselves". Do you mean that if you import the same element hierarchy with different text you get a different font? In general, to debug problems in which I don't understand what fonts are being applied, I recommend you first check whether File > Struct Tools > Show Element Context provides any clues as to what is happening. If not, try creating a test application in which the EDD defines only one element with a general rule of and a text format rule that applies the combined font that your current XML import does not apply. Can you import successfully with this test application? If so, the next step is to figure out the difference between the test application and the actual one. It may be helpful to iterate over progressively simpler versions of the original application until you pinpoint where it fails. --Lynne At 09:24 PM 10/15/2006, Noah Evans wrote: >Hey Rick, framers, > >Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's why: > >After looking through the mif and experimenting with different >formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why >it's ending up like this. > >Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves >--overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone >have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can >manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the >combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. > >I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information >manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could >offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in >that font data. > >Thanks for everybody's help and input, > >Noah > > > >On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi Noah, >> >>I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. >> >>1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. >> >>2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the >>Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. >> >>Rick Quatro >>Carmen Publishing >>585-659-8267 >> www.frameexpert.com >> >> >> > Hey all, >> > >> > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I >> > import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which are >> > assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, >> > but >> > the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting >> > the >> > font information from the root element instead. >> > >> > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag >> > correctly. >> > >> > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Noah >> > ___ >> >___ > > >You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >or visit >http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lprice%40txstruct.com > >Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit >http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (
Re: structured import and pgftag fonts
Hey Steve, I changed the ini file earlier, but the problem seems to be that no matter what I do, when I import all of the text fonts are being set by a blank character format. So even if I set the data to what I want in the paragraph tag, the blank character format that is inserted during import overrides it. What's strange about this is that when I insert the elements directly through frame and edit them by hand, frame doesn't insert the character format. It seems to be an issue with the import. One more thing, I just remembered something regarding the ini file. Even when I set the default font to Arial, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn in maker.ini when I check the strings in the executable in memory next to the string "Default Font" the string Times New Roman, Times New Roman, Tms Rmn is there instead. Could just be a default defined as a constant, but no matter what I do, from purging all definitions of Times from the mif or changing maker.ini it just won't go away during import. Noah On 10/16/06, Steve Cavanaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass Convert Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I thought ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini file there is a default font definition that was driving me mad here. I would convert all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would tell me it was making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined for anything. It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the variable DefaultFamily. Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Noah Evans Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM To: Rick Quatro Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts Hey Rick, framers, Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's why: After looking through the mif and experimenting with different formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why it's ending up like this. Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. Thanks for everybody's help and input, Noah On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Noah, > > I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. > > 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. > > 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the > Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. > > Rick Quatro > Carmen Publishing > 585-659-8267 > www.frameexpert.com > > > > Hey all, > > > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. > > When I import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph > > tags(which are assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the > > pgftag bar and menu, but the fonts just don't apply for some > > reason). They seem to be inheriting the font information from the > > root element instead. > > > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the > > pgftag correctly. > > > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Noah > > ___ > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/scavanaugh%40nat-sea ttle.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
structured import and pgftag fonts
Hey Rick, framers, Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's why: After looking through the mif and experimenting with different formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why it's ending up like this. Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. Thanks for everybody's help and input, Noah On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro wrote: > Hi Noah, > > I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. > > 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. > > 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the > Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. > > Rick Quatro > Carmen Publishing > 585-659-8267 > www.frameexpert.com > > > > Hey all, > > > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I > > import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which are > > assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, > > but > > the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting > > the > > font information from the root element instead. > > > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag > > correctly. > > > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Noah > > ___ > >
Re: structured import and pgftag fonts
Noah, I don't quite follow what is happening here, and I don't understand what you mean by FM "inserting font data on the strings themselves". Do you mean that if you import the same element hierarchy with different text you get a different font? In general, to debug problems in which I don't understand what fonts are being applied, I recommend you first check whether File > Struct Tools > Show Element Context provides any clues as to what is happening. If not, try creating a test application in which the EDD defines only one element with a general rule of and a text format rule that applies the combined font that your current XML import does not apply. Can you import successfully with this test application? If so, the next step is to figure out the difference between the test application and the actual one. It may be helpful to iterate over progressively simpler versions of the original application until you pinpoint where it fails. --Lynne At 09:24 PM 10/15/2006, Noah Evans wrote: Hey Rick, framers, Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's why: After looking through the mif and experimenting with different formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why it's ending up like this. Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. Thanks for everybody's help and input, Noah On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Noah, I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com > Hey all, > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I > import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which are > assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, > but > the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting > the > font information from the root element instead. > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag > correctly. > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > Thanks, > > Noah > ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lprice%40txstruct.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: structured import and pgftag fonts
I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass Convert Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I thought ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini file there is a default font definition that was driving me mad here. I would convert all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would tell me it was making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined for anything. It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the variable DefaultFamily. Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Noah Evans Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM To: Rick Quatro Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts Hey Rick, framers, Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's why: After looking through the mif and experimenting with different formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why it's ending up like this. Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. Thanks for everybody's help and input, Noah On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Noah, > > I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. > > 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. > > 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the > Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. > > Rick Quatro > Carmen Publishing > 585-659-8267 > www.frameexpert.com > > > > Hey all, > > > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. > > When I import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph > > tags(which are assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the > > pgftag bar and menu, but the fonts just don't apply for some > > reason). They seem to be inheriting the font information from the > > root element instead. > > > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the > > pgftag correctly. > > > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Noah > > ___ > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/scavanaugh%40nat-sea ttle.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
structured import and pgftag fonts
Noah, I don't quite follow what is happening here, and I don't understand what you mean by FM "inserting font data on the strings themselves". Do you mean that if you import the same element hierarchy with different text you get a different font? In general, to debug problems in which I don't understand what fonts are being applied, I recommend you first check whether File > Struct Tools > Show Element Context provides any clues as to what is happening. If not, try creating a test application in which the EDD defines only one element with a general rule of and a text format rule that applies the combined font that your current XML import does not apply. Can you import successfully with this test application? If so, the next step is to figure out the difference between the test application and the actual one. It may be helpful to iterate over progressively simpler versions of the original application until you pinpoint where it fails. --Lynne At 09:24 PM 10/15/2006, Noah Evans wrote: >Hey Rick, framers, > >Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's why: > >After looking through the mif and experimenting with different >formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why >it's ending up like this. > >Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves >--overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone >have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can >manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the >combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. > >I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information >manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could >offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in >that font data. > >Thanks for everybody's help and input, > >Noah > > > >On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro wrote: >> Hi Noah, >> >>I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. >> >>1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. >> >>2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the >>Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. >> >>Rick Quatro >>Carmen Publishing >>585-659-8267 >> www.frameexpert.com >> >> >> > Hey all, >> > >> > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I >> > import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which are >> > assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, >> > but >> > the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting >> > the >> > font information from the root element instead. >> > >> > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag >> > correctly. >> > >> > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Noah >> > ___ >> >___ > > >You are currently subscribed to Framers as lprice at txstruct.com. > >Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at >lists.frameusers.com >or visit >http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lprice%40txstruct.com > >Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit >http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training lprice at txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284
structured import and pgftag fonts
I caught a clue about FrameMaker's font behavior from http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/index.html - click on Mass Convert Fonts. I hadn't realized that FrameMaker uses an .ini file (I thought ini files went away a LONG time ago) and that in that .ini file there is a default font definition that was driving me mad here. I would convert all fonts to Arial, and upon print, the console would tell me it was making a substitute for "Times" which I had not defined for anything. It turns out, that .ini file had a definition of Times for the variable DefaultFamily. Steve Cavanaugh Sr. Technical Writer NAT Seattle Inc. -Original Message- From: framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces+scavanaugh=nat-seattle.com at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Noah Evans Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:25 PM To: Rick Quatro Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: structured import and pgftag fonts Hey Rick, framers, Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's why: After looking through the mif and experimenting with different formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why it's ending up like this. Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. Thanks for everybody's help and input, Noah On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro wrote: > Hi Noah, > > I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. > > 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. > > 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the > Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. > > Rick Quatro > Carmen Publishing > 585-659-8267 > www.frameexpert.com > > > > Hey all, > > > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. > > When I import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph > > tags(which are assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the > > pgftag bar and menu, but the fonts just don't apply for some > > reason). They seem to be inheriting the font information from the > > root element instead. > > > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the > > pgftag correctly. > > > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Noah > > ___ > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as scavanaugh at nat-seattle.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/scavanaugh%40nat-sea ttle.com Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: structured import and pgftag fonts
Hey Rick, framers, Rick, thanks for your tip, however in this case it didn't work. Here's why: After looking through the mif and experimenting with different formatting in the edd, I've found the problem, but I have no idea why it's ending up like this. Frame seems to be inserting font data on the strings themselves --overriding the combined fonts defined by the elements. Does anyone have any idea of how I could stop frame from doing this? I can manually set the font with a text rule, but frame still nests the combined fonts too deeply in the mif, so frame's fonts override them. I could write an fdk client to eliminate the font information manually, but I'm hoping that someone who knows more than me could offer me some ideas as to what's going on and why frame's putting in that font data. Thanks for everybody's help and input, Noah On 10/12/06, Rick Quatro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Noah, I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com > Hey all, > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I > import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which are > assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, > but > the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting > the > font information from the root element instead. > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag > correctly. > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > Thanks, > > Noah > ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
structured import and pgftag fonts
Hey all, I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which are assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, but the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting the font information from the root element instead. However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag correctly. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? Thanks, Noah
structured import and pgftag fonts
Hi Noah, I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com > Hey all, > > I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I > import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which are > assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, > but > the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting > the > font information from the root element instead. > > However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag > correctly. > > Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? > > Thanks, > > Noah > ___
Re: structured import and pgftag fonts
Hi Noah, I am not sure what is causing this by try this after you import the XML. 1) Choose File > Import > Element Definitions. 2) Leave Current selected in the Import from Document popup. Check the Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Hey all, I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which are assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, but the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting the font information from the root element instead. However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag correctly. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? Thanks, Noah ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
structured import and pgftag fonts
Hey all, I'm having a very strange problem with my structure application. When I import an xml file, none of the fonts follows the paragraph tags(which are assigned by the edd, they show up just fine in the pgftag bar and menu, but the fonts just don't apply for some reason). They seem to be inheriting the font information from the root element instead. However if I just insert an element manually the font follows the pgftag correctly. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? Thanks, Noah ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
