In article 20100307.144736.420173476735197890@bsdimp.com, Warner
Losh i...@bsdimp.com writes:
We don't have quite as many problems as the NetBSD/OpenBSD crowd in
this respect. They tend to define a new MACHIINE more often then we
have (or will). The need for sys/arch is less severe here
In message 201003080329.o283tqic011...@hergotha.csail.mit.edu, Garrett Wollma
n writes:
If we were talking about 100 architectures, I might feel differently,
but in this universe, we have, what? eight? And there are how many
architectures currently in mass production? This whole discussion is
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010, David O'Brien wrote:
No, not it isn't. Provide a script to convert path's in the diff. This is
what $LARGE_FREEBSD_USER did when it rearranged it source tree.
It was done by creating a copy of the CVS repo and moved files around. Old
releases stayed in the old repo, and
In message: 20100307052949.gb70...@dragon.nuxi.org
David O'Brien obr...@freebsd.org writes:
: On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 01:28:24AM -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote:
: FWIW, NetBSD's charter has been to run their OS on a number of
: architectures, not just a primary set of architectures;
In message: 20100307054423.ge70...@dragon.nuxi.org
David O'Brien obr...@freebsd.org writes:
: On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 09:41:40AM +, Robert Watson wrote:
: On Fri, 5 Mar 2010, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
: In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1003050912340.5...@fledge.watson.org, Robert
:
On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 02:49:04PM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote:
In message: 20100307054423.ge70...@dragon.nuxi.org
David O'Brien obr...@freebsd.org writes:
: On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 09:41:40AM +, Robert Watson wrote:
: On Fri, 5 Mar 2010, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
: In
On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 08:51:22PM +, Robert Watson wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010, David O'Brien wrote:
No, not it isn't. Provide a script to convert path's in the diff. This is
what $LARGE_FREEBSD_USER did when it rearranged it source tree.
It was done by creating a copy of the CVS repo
In message: 20100308000203.ga70...@dragon.nuxi.org
David O'Brien obr...@freebsd.org writes:
: On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 02:49:04PM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote:
: In message: 20100307054423.ge70...@dragon.nuxi.org
: David O'Brien obr...@freebsd.org writes:
: : On Fri, Mar
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 4:49 PM, M. Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote:
In message: 20100308000203.ga70...@dragon.nuxi.org
David O'Brien obr...@freebsd.org writes:
: On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 02:49:04PM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote:
: In message: 20100307054423.ge70...@dragon.nuxi.org
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Mark Linimon lini...@lonesome.com wrote:
There are two chief problems with a large-scale reorg of our src tree:
- There are many companies who use FreeBSD as part of their business.
In the case of ISPs or companies who use FreeBSD as a base of their
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 11:33 AM, paradox ddkp...@yahoo.com wrote:
so, I really do not understand why it is so difficult to move a few folders
in the shared folder is a big problem
as is done in openbsd and netbsd
http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/arch/?only_with_tag=MAIN
Alex Keda writes:
Let's wait another 10 years, and, coming at last to understand
that this must be done, and do it was 20 times harder.
First, all architectures are not equal in FreeBSD's eyes. Look
for Tier 1 architectures in the docs and mailing lists.
Second, if you want
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 11:16:41AM +, Doug Rabson wrote:
I think you misunderstand. Some of us old-timers have been having this
discussion repeatedly for well over ten years. It always ends up the same
way - a re-org might make the source tree marginally prettier but the
consequences for
On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 01:28:24AM -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote:
FWIW, NetBSD's charter has been to run their OS on a number of
architectures, not just a primary set of architectures; OpenBSD's
charter differs -- if we all were NetBSD or OpenBSD, then we'd all be
using the same thing. But
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 12:01:30PM +0100, Svein Skogen (Listmail Account) wrote:
Oh, so because a lot of the programmers behind it receive wages, and the
project itself won't commit ritual suicide by basically blocking the
companies using FreeBSD from returning improvements they make to the
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 09:41:40AM +, Robert Watson wrote:
On Fri, 5 Mar 2010, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1003050912340.5...@fledge.watson.org, Robert
Watso n writes:
Doing that kind of rearrangement [...] would be a nightmare for anyone
with large [...]
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010, Xin LI wrote:
One good thing (in my opinion) that NetBSD and Darwin have is that they have
a common tree which holds the common files that shared between kernel and
userland libc. Currently we have 2 or more copies of certain files in the
tree but I'm not sure if it's a
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010, paradox wrote:
so, I really do not understand why it is so difficult to move a few folders
in the shared folder is a big problem as is done in openbsd and netbsd
http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/arch/?only_with_tag=MAIN
In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1003050912340.5...@fledge.watson.org, Robert Watso
n writes:
Doing that kind of rearrangement [...] would be a nightmare for
anyone with large [...] patches, so I'd say we could pretty much rule
that out outright.
I would say that we should do it occasionally, to
On 05.03.2010 12:17, Robert Watson wrote:
consumers like Isilon, NetApp, Juniper, and many others
thus, it is not 'Free', this managed by 'consumers like Isilon, NetApp,
Juniper, and many others'?
___
freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list
On Fri, 5 Mar 2010, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1003050912340.5...@fledge.watson.org, Robert
Watso n writes:
Doing that kind of rearrangement [...] would be a nightmare for anyone with
large [...] patches, so I'd say we could pretty much rule that out
outright.
I
In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1003050940290.5...@fledge.watson.org, Robert Watso
n writes:
[...] it's that changes in layout
come with a less visible but much larger cost than svn mv.
Really stupid question: Doesn't svn support symlinks ?
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:30, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:17, Robert Watson wrote:
consumers like Isilon, NetApp, Juniper, and many others
thus, it is not 'Free', this managed by 'consumers like Isilon, NetApp,
Juniper, and many others'?
It might be helpful to think of them as 'customers'
In message cf439450-14f1-4628-a012-cf6dd2a50...@rabson.org, Doug Rabson write
s:
Normal business practice doesn't include
intentionally making your customers' lives difficult - if you make a
habit of it they tend to go elsewhere.
Right, but as Sun has so definitively shown, you don't do your
On 05.03.2010 12:45, Doug Rabson wrote:
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:30, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:17, Robert Watson wrote:
consumers like Isilon, NetApp, Juniper, and many others
thus, it is not 'Free', this managed by 'consumers like Isilon, NetApp,
Juniper, and many
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:56, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:45, Doug Rabson wrote:
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:30, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:17, Robert Watson wrote:
consumers like Isilon, NetApp, Juniper, and many others
thus, it is not 'Free', this managed by
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:56, Alex Keda wrote:
thus, it is not 'Free', this managed by 'consumers like Isilon, NetApp,
Juniper, and many others'?
It isn't managed by them whatsoever.
FreeBSD is a cooperative anarchy, driven by working code and rough consensus.
That's what controls the checkins.
On 05.03.2010 12:59, Doug Rabson wrote:
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:56, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:45, Doug Rabson wrote:
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:30, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:17, Robert Watson wrote:
consumers like Isilon, NetApp, Juniper, and many
In message 4b90e171.2040...@lissyara.su, Alex Keda writes:
then can a more correct name of the project or ClosedBSD or ManagedBSD? =)
or something abstract?
You are free to use any other operating system of your choice, if you
are not happy with FreeBSD.
Don't let the door hit you on the way
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:48:17 +0300, Alex Keda ad...@lissyara.su wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:59, Doug Rabson wrote:
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:56, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:45, Doug Rabson wrote:
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:30, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:17, Robert
On 05.03.2010 13:59, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4b90e171.2040...@lissyara.su, Alex Keda writes:
then can a more correct name of the project or ClosedBSD or ManagedBSD? =)
or something abstract?
You are free to use any other operating system of your choice, if you
are not
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:10:43 +0300, Alex Keda ad...@lissyara.su wrote:
On 05.03.2010 13:59, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4b90e171.2040...@lissyara.su, Alex Keda writes:
then can a more correct name of the project or ClosedBSD or
ManagedBSD?
=)
or something abstract?
You
On 05.03.2010 14:16, Doug Rabson wrote:
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:10:43 +0300, Alex Kedaad...@lissyara.su wrote:
On 05.03.2010 13:59, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4b90e171.2040...@lissyara.su, Alex Keda writes:
then can a more correct name of the project or ClosedBSD
In message e3e25b34d9476c02d80919fe5d09a...@mail.rabson.org, Doug Rabson writ
es:
I think you misunderstand. Some of us old-timers have been having this
discussion repeatedly for well over ten years.
s/ten/fifteen/ :-)
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:27:06 +0300, Alex Keda ad...@lissyara.su wrote:
On 05.03.2010 14:16, Doug Rabson wrote:
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:10:43 +0300, Alex Kedaad...@lissyara.su
wrote:
On 05.03.2010 13:59, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4b90e171.2040...@lissyara.su, Alex Keda
On 05.03.2010 14:16, Doug Rabson wrote:
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:10:43 +0300, Alex Kedaad...@lissyara.su wrote:
On 05.03.2010 13:59, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4b90e171.2040...@lissyara.su, Alex Keda writes:
then can a more correct name of the project or ClosedBSD
paradox ddkp...@yahoo.com writes:
so, I really do not understand why it is so difficult [...]
Easy for you to say, since you're not the one who would have to do the
work and spend the next two years cleaning up the resulting mess.
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no
Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk writes:
Really stupid question: Doesn't svn support symlinks ?
It does, but the moment we move in that direction, someone will start
complaining that they can't check out the source on Windows (which is
the reason why we no longer have any files in the tree
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 12:01:30 +0100 Svein Skogen (Listmail Account)
svein-listm...@stillbilde.net wrote:
On 05.03.2010 11:48, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:59, Doug Rabson wrote:
On 5 Mar 2010, at 09:56, Alex Keda wrote:
It seems to me, business and freedom - are mutually exclusive
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 02:27:06PM +0300, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 14:16, Doug Rabson wrote:
On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:10:43 +0300, Alex Kedaad...@lissyara.su wrote:
On 05.03.2010 13:59, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4b90e171.2040...@lissyara.su, Alex Keda writes:
On Fri, 5 Mar 2010, Alex Keda wrote:
On 05.03.2010 12:17, Robert Watson wrote:
consumers like Isilon, NetApp, Juniper, and many others
thus, it is not 'Free', this managed by 'consumers like Isilon, NetApp,
Juniper, and many others'?
These and other companies contribute significantly to
On Fri, 5 Mar 2010, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1003050940290.5...@fledge.watson.org, Robert
Watso n writes:
[...] it's that changes in layout come with a less visible but much larger
cost than svn mv.
Really stupid question: Doesn't svn support symlinks ?
Yes,
On Fri, 5 Mar 2010, Alex Keda wrote:
thus, it is not 'Free', this managed by 'consumers like Isilon, NetApp,
Juniper, and many others'?
It might be helpful to think of them as 'customers' who are using our
'product' and paying for it by feeding back patches and employing FreeBSD
On 03/05/10 11:10, Alex Keda wrote:
I'm not going anywhere, not even hope for it =)
I'm trying to make FreeBSD a better, more logical.
Maybe that's not very successful, but judging by the number of
responses, it hurt many, and made to think even more people.
One of the things which attracted
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message e3e25b34d9476c02d80919fe5d09a...@mail.rabson.org, Doug Rabson writ
es:
I think you misunderstand. Some of us old-timers have been having this
discussion repeatedly for well over ten years.
s/ten/fifteen/ :-)
s/fifteen/twenty five/ if you include BSD 4.2
iam propose all the architecture move in a separate directory
as is done in openbsd and netbsd
ie
#mkdir /usr/src/sys/arch
#mv -R
/usr/src/sys/{amd64,arm,i386,ia64,mips,pc98,powerpc,sparc64,sun4v,xen,x86)
/usr/src/sys/arch/
Would it ever done in freebsd?
On 2010-03-04 14:51, paradox wrote:
#mkdir /usr/src/sys/arch
#mv -R
/usr/src/sys/{amd64,arm,i386,ia64,mips,pc98,powerpc,sparc64,sun4v,xen,x86)
/usr/src/sys/arch/
Would it ever done in freebsd?
Sure, right after the switch to git.
___
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:48:19 +0100
From: Dimitry Andric dimi...@andric.com
Sender: owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org
On 2010-03-04 14:51, paradox wrote:
#mkdir /usr/src/sys/arch
#mv -R
/usr/src/sys/{amd64,arm,i386,ia64,mips,pc98,powerpc,sparc64,sun4v,xen,x86)
/usr/src/sys/arch/
In message: 401095.35021...@web59107.mail.re1.yahoo.com
paradox ddkp...@yahoo.com writes:
: iam propose all the architecture move in a separate directory
: as is done in openbsd and netbsd
:
: ie
: #mkdir /usr/src/sys/arch
: #mv -R
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, M. Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote:
In message: 401095.35021...@web59107.mail.re1.yahoo.com
paradox ddkp...@yahoo.com writes:
: iam propose all the architecture move in a separate directory
: as is done in openbsd and netbsd
:
: ie
: #mkdir
There are two chief problems with a large-scale reorg of our src tree:
- There are many companies who use FreeBSD as part of their business.
In the case of ISPs or companies who use FreeBSD as a base of their
products, this would make it much harder for them to synchronize
their local
so, I really do not understand why it is so difficult to move a few folders in
the shared folder is a big problem
as is done in openbsd and netbsd
http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/arch/?only_with_tag=MAIN
http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/arch/
as you can see
Well,
Hi,
* paradox ddkp...@yahoo.com wrote:
Well, maybe my thoughts will be understood, then when the folder
/usr/src/sys/ number of architectures to increase to ~ 50, [...]
s/when/if/. ;-)
I know this sounds lazy, but shouldn't we start discussing this problem
by the time we support more than 10
* paradox
wrote:
Well, maybe my thoughts will be understood, then when
the folder
/usr/src/sys/ number of architectures to increase to ~
50, [...]
s/when/if/. ;-)
more than ~ 5 years, it was necessary that would create
/usr/src/sys/x86/
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