fb9 - dmesg - bluetooth and netgraph warnings
Hi, I have these warnings. Any known cause and solution ? FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE #0 $ dmesg ... ubt0: Broadcom Corp BCM2045B, class 224/1, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 2 on usbus0 WARNING: attempt to domain_add(bluetooth) after domainfinalize() WARNING: attempt to domain_add(netgraph) after domainfinalize() ... jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Google+ install Hangout Voice and Video Plug-in
Hi, I was wondering whether it would possible to get Google+ Hangout running on Freebsd. I am running firefox-10.0,1 installed from the ports on FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE #0:amd64 Trying to install the plugin from the Google+ page and I get an almost finished message, but that is as far as it goes. I understand that Google+ is only supported on Windows XP+, Mac OS X 10.5+ or Linux, but what would it take, or is it even possible to get it working on Freebsd? Glenn ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
FreeBSD on Dell R210 II With PERC H200 Controllers
Hi List Is there a version of freebsd (preferably 8 upwards) that supports the PERC H200 controller on Dell R210 II servers ? I've followed the thread at: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.os.freebsd.stable/74192 But it seems somewhat inconclusive. Thanks in Advance, Traiano ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Google+ install Hangout Voice and Video Plug-in
On 02/17/12 17:59, The Todds wrote: Hi, I was wondering whether it would possible to get Google+ Hangout running on Freebsd. I am running firefox-10.0,1 installed from the ports on FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE #0:amd64 Trying to install the plugin from the Google+ page and I get an almost finished message, but that is as far as it goes. I understand that Google+ is only supported on Windows XP+, Mac OS X 10.5+ or Linux, but what would it take, or is it even possible to get it working on Freebsd? Possibly just nspluginwrapper if it works on linux, but it depends on what it actually needs in terms of calls and libraries. If your lucky and can get the src you may get it working natively. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: fb9 - dmesg - bluetooth and netgraph warnings
On 02/17/12 18:19, jb wrote: Hi, I have these warnings. Any known cause and solution ? FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE #0 $ dmesg ... ubt0:Broadcom Corp BCM2045B, class 224/1, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 2 on usbus0 WARNING: attempt to domain_add(bluetooth) after domainfinalize() WARNING: attempt to domain_add(netgraph) after domainfinalize() They should be fine, they're normal (apparently) for bluetooth running on FBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD on Dell R210 II With PERC H200 Controllers
Sorry top post, posting from phone. 8.2-stable, 9.0-release, will post a link with a tutorial when I hit my desk On 17 Feb 2012, at 09:11, Traiano Welcome traiano.welc...@mtnbusiness.co.za wrote: Hi List Is there a version of freebsd (preferably 8 upwards) that supports the PERC H200 controller on Dell R210 II servers ? I've followed the thread at: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.os.freebsd.stable/74192 But it seems somewhat inconclusive. Thanks in Advance, Traiano ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Technical Support Question
Chip Oakley silverskymus...@gmail.com wrote: Am tempted to remove the drive and insert a new one, not sure as there is memory on the drive available and nothing really wrong with it. If you don't mind losing everything currently on the drive, overwriting the MBR -- and the backup GPT at the end of the drive, if the BIOS supports GPT/UEFI -- would surely keep it from booting into Windows. You'd probably have to take the drive out, and connect it to a different machine (since this one's BIOS seems hardwired to boot only from the hard drive). Another possibility would be to clear the machine's CMOS, if there's a way to do that. Desktop mainboards usually have a jumper for the purpose; dunno about Samsung laptops but removing the CMOS battery and giving it a few minutes for the stray capacitance to discharge should suffice. (Getting to the CMOS battery may involve taking the case apart.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD on Dell R210 II With PERC H200 Controllers
On 17/02/2012 11:14, Damien Fleuriot m...@my.gd wrote: Sorry top post, posting from phone. 8.2-stable, 9.0-release, will post a link with a tutorial when I hit my desk Thanks, Damien! Much appreciated! On 17 Feb 2012, at 09:11, Traiano Welcome traiano.welc...@mtnbusiness.co.za wrote: Hi List Is there a version of freebsd (preferably 8 upwards) that supports the PERC H200 controller on Dell R210 II servers ? I've followed the thread at: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.os.freebsd.stable/74192 But it seems somewhat inconclusive. Thanks in Advance, Traiano ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Traiano ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Technical Support Question
Thanks interesting possibilities. One thought I had is creating an operating system independent BIOS where the appropriate machine code is inserted into the events that lead to an override of the processes that is forcing into windows. Maybe burned to a CD or USB, from another computer and tie the low level to a keyboard function, Like pressing F2 etc, at boot to access new BIOS functionality. Is this possible? On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:26 AM, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Chip Oakley silverskymus...@gmail.com wrote: Am tempted to remove the drive and insert a new one, not sure as there is memory on the drive available and nothing really wrong with it. If you don't mind losing everything currently on the drive, overwriting the MBR -- and the backup GPT at the end of the drive, if the BIOS supports GPT/UEFI -- would surely keep it from booting into Windows. You'd probably have to take the drive out, and connect it to a different machine (since this one's BIOS seems hardwired to boot only from the hard drive). Another possibility would be to clear the machine's CMOS, if there's a way to do that. Desktop mainboards usually have a jumper for the purpose; dunno about Samsung laptops but removing the CMOS battery and giving it a few minutes for the stray capacitance to discharge should suffice. (Getting to the CMOS battery may involve taking the case apart.) -- Any attachments (WAV. MP3, PDF) files etc, contain copyrighted material that is protected under intellectual property law in the USA and internationally through the World Intellectual Property Organization in Geneva, Switzerland. Messages are for the intended recipients only and usually contain confidential information as well. If you received this message or any previous messages in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete any files or emails that may be in question. Thanks for your consideration. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD on Dell R210 II With PERC H200 Controllers
Hi Damien Additional question: On 17/02/2012 11:14, Damien Fleuriot m...@my.gd wrote: Sorry top post, posting from phone. 8.2-stable, 9.0-release, will post a link with a tutorial when I hit my desk A lot of these Dell R210 II's ship with the S300 PERC. Does FreeBSD have support for this controller as well? On 17 Feb 2012, at 09:11, Traiano Welcome traiano.welc...@mtnbusiness.co.za wrote: Hi List Is there a version of freebsd (preferably 8 upwards) that supports the PERC H200 controller on Dell R210 II servers ? I've followed the thread at: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.os.freebsd.stable/74192 But it seems somewhat inconclusive. Thanks in Advance, Traiano ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
sysinstall cant seem to download the kernel source.
Hiya I seem to have this problem with sysinstall, whereby I cant seem to download the kernel source. I tried following this example http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/freebsd-install-kernel-source-code/ I use Install from an FTP server The error message I get is Unable to transfer the sbase distribution from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org.; Does anyone know of another way to get the kernel source. Cvs or svn. Regards Brent ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Technical Support Question
On 02/17/12 19:58, Chip Oakley wrote: Thanks interesting possibilities. One thought I had is creating an operating system independent BIOS where the appropriate machine code is inserted into the events that lead to an override of the processes that is forcing into windows. Maybe burned to a CD or USB, from another computer and tie the low level to a keyboard function, Like pressing F2 etc, at boot to access new BIOS functionality. Is this possible? I don't believe so. Its not really that hardwired to windows, not in my experience; it is a real PITA though. If you play your cards right and you know enough about BIOS you will get it. With the new laptops they really try hard to stick windows like shit on your laptop. But they can't _make_ you use it. New HP laptops (like the ones I use), can take a few goes to get it to install. Asus are about the same. Just watch your boot ordering and you will be fine. I keep reiterating using USB to install because it really does simplify matters. In the BIOS you usually find about 3 entries to set the boot order. One is to set the boot order (removable, hdd, or network), one for which removable (cdrom, usb cdrom, usb floppy, etc), and one for hdd priority (here is where your usb disk will show up, and you _will_ have to set it as boot every time, but it will boot). Set the boot order for removable, hdd, network (or disable if you like). Set the removable to cdrom. Set the hdd (temporarily because as I said it _will_ change) to the usb disk. Voila! it will start the install. I have found the cdrom to be fickle on the new laptops for booting, I'm not sure exactly why but I suspect the confusion of removable drives in the BIOS. I'm not a samsung expert, but most laptop BIOS are very similar (at least ones in the same era). #1 Get a BIOS expert to help if you can't get this figured. They will be able to show you exactly what to do in front of you in about 5-10 mins. Easier to understand if its visually shown to you rather than described. Once you jump this hurdle you will do just fine. On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:26 AM,per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Chip Oakleysilverskymus...@gmail.com wrote: Am tempted to remove the drive and insert a new one, not sure as there is memory on the drive available and nothing really wrong with it. If you don't mind losing everything currently on the drive, overwriting the MBR -- and the backup GPT at the end of the drive, if the BIOS supports GPT/UEFI -- would surely keep it from booting into Windows. You'd probably have to take the drive out, and connect it to a different machine (since this one's BIOS seems hardwired to boot only from the hard drive). Another possibility would be to clear the machine's CMOS, if there's a way to do that. Desktop mainboards usually have a jumper for the purpose; dunno about Samsung laptops but removing the CMOS battery and giving it a few minutes for the stray capacitance to discharge should suffice. (Getting to the CMOS battery may involve taking the case apart.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: sysinstall cant seem to download the kernel source.
On 02/17/12 19:31, Brent Clark wrote: Hiya I seem to have this problem with sysinstall, whereby I cant seem to download the kernel source. I tried following this example http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/freebsd-install-kernel-source-code/ I use Install from an FTP server The error message I get is Unable to transfer the sbase distribution from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org.; Does anyone know of another way to get the kernel source. Cvs or svn. A quick search of previous posts to this list should provide the answer you need. Try from last month I think :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD on Dell R210 II With PERC H200 Controllers
On 2/17/12 11:02 AM, Traiano Welcome wrote: Hi Damien Additional question: On 17/02/2012 11:14, Damien Fleuriot m...@my.gd wrote: Sorry top post, posting from phone. 8.2-stable, 9.0-release, will post a link with a tutorial when I hit my desk A lot of these Dell R210 II's ship with the S300 PERC. Does FreeBSD have support for this controller as well? Regarding S300 I'm sorry, I wouldn't be able to tell, all I've been able to test was H200. So, now that I'm at work, a more detailed response regarding Dell r210 with Perc H200 raid controllers. First of all, you're going to need the mps driver which is available in 8-STABLE (8.3-PRERELEASE), 9.0-RELEASE and 9-STABLE. It is *not* available as per the stock 8.2-RELEASE iso image. Second, you're going to need to disable the hardware raid so that your disks actually appear to the OS, then create a software raid on them. This is done by hitting Ctrl+R when asked to, during the machine's boot process. Third, there has been a recent update to mps by Kashyap DESAI as published by Kenneth D. Merry: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-January/031358.html The update is available on 8-STABLE and 9-STABLE and it might bring hardware raid support for H200 controllers. Here are 2 links to help you getting started: - my quick drafted procedure: http://my.gd/bsd.htm - which Ollivier Robert greatly improved: http://www.keltia.net/howtos/freebsd-dedibox ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: sysinstall cant seem to download the kernel source.
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:31:39 +0200 Brent Clark wrote: I use Install from an FTP server The error message I get is Unable to transfer the sbase distribution from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org.; Does anyone know of another way to get the kernel source. Get it with csup and be sure to set the correct tag in your supfile (probably RELENG_9_0, for the 9.0 security branch or RELENG_9 for the stable development branch). In the long term it's simplest and safest to start from an empty src directory anyway. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: /lib/exec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object libpcre.so.0 not found, required by libxfsm-4.6.so.0 amd64 FreeBSD 8.2
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Antonio Olivares olivares14...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Ryan Frederick ryanrfreder...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like others have run into this problem with avahi-app as well: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2011-July/068658.html A cursory search shows that uninstalling avahi-app then reinstalling should take care of the compilation failure. Afterward you should be able to run portmaster as shown in the error message (minus 'net/avahi-app') to finish recompiling the ports that depend on pcre. Ryan This does make the desktop work again :) I followed the advice and am back in the saddle. Some things failed to compile, but I used -x parameter to not update them. I will track those ports later. I appreciate the help and advice provided. It appears that a new pcre update hits the ports later. I wonder if it bypasses the original problem. Regards, Antonio ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
program / Project Consultant.
Dear, First, please accept my apologies for the disturbance. I am a Senior Consultant Infrastructure Program Manager with 20 years experience in IMT. I started my career with Digital in Sophia Antipolis in 1988 and over time, made my primary focus in IT Program/Project management. Here are companies that I have been dealing with over the time: · Berkeley Scott in London (1998-2001) as Senior IT consultant (interim IT Director) · ATT in Paris since (2001-2004) as Program Manager · WL Gore in Paris (2004-2005) as Program Manager (Integration program) · DELL in France and Benelux as Senior Integration Project Manager (outsourcing project) · Fortis Bank in Luxembourg and Brussels as Project leader (integration project) · Opteamum Alliance in Paris as Senior Integration Project Leader (acquisition project) · ThyssenKrupp in France and Benelux as Senior Integration Project Leader (outsourcing project) Following the numbers of years’ experience, I can offer services within Project and Program Management organizations: · Management of all project phases, from Initiation to Closure · Management of the project's key elements: scope, planning, KPI's, budget... · Leading of the Project team · A methodology adapted to your requirements: PMI, Prince2 or the customer's in-house methodology · Ad-hoc intervention on on-going projects · Support in the setting up of Project Management Offices (PMO's) I look forward to hearing from you and would welcome the opportunity to discuss my expertise in detail. Kind regards, Thierry Sconetti Tel: +33 6 23 11 08 02 Email: thierry.scone...@sconetticoncept.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: /lib/exec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object libpcre.so.0 not found, required by libxfsm-4.6.so.0 amd64 FreeBSD 8.2
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:08:54 -0600 Antonio Olivares wrote: On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Ryan Frederick ryanrfreder...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like others have run into this problem with avahi-app as well: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2011-July/068658.html A cursory search shows that uninstalling avahi-app then reinstalling should take care of the compilation failure. Afterward you should be able to run portmaster as shown in the error message (minus 'net/avahi-app') to finish recompiling the ports that depend on pcre. Thanks Ryan when I get home tonight, I will remove avahi-app and reinstall it and then recompile all the ports that depend on pcre. I ran into this problem yesterday and removing avahi-ap didn't fix it for me. In the end I identified some orphaned libraries under /usr/local/ and deleting those fixed the problem. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
program / Project Consultant.
Dear, First, please accept my apologies for the disturbance. I am a Senior Consultant Infrastructure Program Manager with 20 years experience in IMT. I started my career with Digital in Sophia Antipolis in 1988 and over time, made my primary focus in IT Program/Project management. Here are companies that I have been dealing with over the time: · Berkeley Scott in London (1998-2001) as Senior IT consultant (interim IT Director) · ATT in Paris since (2001-2004) as Program Manager · WL Gore in Paris (2004-2005) as Program Manager (Integration program) · DELL in France and Benelux as Senior Integration Project Manager (outsourcing project) · Fortis Bank in Luxembourg and Brussels as Project leader (integration project) · Opteamum Alliance in Paris as Senior Integration Project Leader (acquisition project) · ThyssenKrupp in France and Benelux as Senior Integration Project Leader (outsourcing project) Following the numbers of years’ experience, I can offer services within Project and Program Management organizations: · Management of all project phases, from Initiation to Closure · Management of the project's key elements: scope, planning, KPI's, budget... · Leading of the Project team · A methodology adapted to your requirements: PMI, Prince2 or the customer's in-house methodology · Ad-hoc intervention on on-going projects · Support in the setting up of Project Management Offices (PMO's) I look forward to hearing from you and would welcome the opportunity to discuss my expertise in detail. Kind regards, Thierry Sconetti Tel: +33 6 23 11 08 02 Email: thierry.scone...@sconetticoncept.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: MFC 7840W under CUPS
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:00:38 -0500, Jerry wrote: It appears that ps is no-longer the format of choice but is being replaced by PDF, a format that is natively supported by many printers. Jerry, I wanted to point out that PS still seems to be the format that _applications_ use as output format for printing. Even though especially office applications (such as Abiword or LibreOffice) have a built-in PDF file generator, the printing output that is sent to the printing subsystem (lpr, CUPS, whatever) is in PS format and gets converted to what the printer needs by the proper printer filter (driver). The print to file output method typically creates PS, at least on UNIX, Linux, MacOS X and other operating system families. If printers would natively support PDF data instead of unknown arbitrary commands to move the printing head - things would be MUCH LESS complicated on the OS's side. Data just needs to be generated in PDF natively, or converted from PS to PDF (simple task) by the printer filter, and then just sent to a specific network address (just as netcat could do). That would nearly eliminate the need for printer drivers I think. The only thing that comes to my mind is... how does it handle duplexing and other printer-HARDWARE specific things? Can they also be coded in a PDF file? Really, I like the approach of having PDF as a universal printer language (even though it's not 100% safe from a security point of view, but that doesn't matter on the home consumer market anyway). It would remove any need complicated things like (in my opinion) the CUPS configuration. You just need to enter the IP of the printer - done; and it doesn't even matter of this is a wired or wireless connection! Maybe even lowest-end USB devices can accept a PDF data stream... Think about that: % netcat 192.168.123.456 /tmp/printing.pdf or even % cat /tmp/inkpee.pdf /dev/ulpt0 to make the printer start printing... With standardized PDF instructions, there would be no need for artificial OS barriers. PDF is known. No need to port any drivers, to create wrappers or jump though hoops. Note that the system's DEFAULT printing facility (the printer spooler) would be a perfect means to plug in. Printer filters could be easily implemented, i. e. only _one_ filter needs to be present: one that converts an application's PS to PDF and the send it to the printer's local port or IP address. All the parts needed for that task are already present (and have been for many years). Would be interesting to see how this develops. Thanks for sharing that info, sounds really good. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how can i offload a 600m file without graphic tools?
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:32:07 -0800, Gary Kline wrote: w can i move a file from my home filesystem to my one disc drive without using a GUI? i don't have a graphic interface on my FBSD system and want to save a 600MB file to my cdrom? thanks for tips on what i have Long forgotten! I hope I can interpret your question correctly: You need to burn a 600 MB file to a disc (typically a CD, but could be a DVD too)? That's quite easy: CDs typically use the ISO-9660 file system which mkisofs (from ports) creates, and a program like cdrecord or cdrdao can burn it to the media. For a DVD, growisofs will do that part. Step 1: % mkisofs -r -J -o bigfile.iso bigfile where bigfile is the file you want to store. The flags -r and -J make sure the file system will also be properly interpreted on non-standard systems; -o specifies the output file. Step 2: % cdrecord dev=0,0,0 speed=10 -v -eject -tao -data bigfile.iso In order to know _what_ device to record to, run % camcontrol devlist Make sure you have proper permissions to access the files in /dev that are needed. If not, use sudo prefix or do the required parts using su. In the camcontrol devlist output, available drives will be listed. Bus, taget and LUN will form the trinity address that will then be used in the dev= parameter. After successful burning, % rm bigfile.iso as it's not needed anymore. You can also use a piping mechanism from mkisofs to cdrecord, but I didn't want to make it that complicated. :-) In case you need to burn a DVD because the file gets bigger than 650..700 MB, only one step is needed: % growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd -r -J bigfile In this case, /dev/dvd is a symlink to /dev/cd0 (see camcontrol devlist output again, but look for the associated SCSI devices). If you already have the ISO file, use % growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=bigfile.iso to record it to DVD. Note that there are other ways to store data on CDs and DVDs which are intendedly less compatible by omitting the ISO 9660 file system. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: MFC 7840W under CUPS
On 02/17/12 23:14, Polytropon wrote: On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:00:38 -0500, Jerry wrote: It appears that ps is no-longer the format of choice but is being replaced by PDF, a format that is natively supported by many printers. Jerry, I wanted to point out that PS still seems to be the format that _applications_ use as output format for printing. Even though especially office applications (such as Abiword or LibreOffice) have a built-in PDF file generator, the printing output that is sent to the printing subsystem (lpr, CUPS, whatever) is in PS format and gets converted to what the printer needs by the proper printer filter (driver). The print to file output method typically creates PS, at least on UNIX, Linux, MacOS X and other operating system families. If printers would natively support PDF data instead of unknown arbitrary commands to move the printing head - things would be MUCH LESS complicated on the OS's side. Data just needs to be generated in PDF natively, or converted from PS to PDF (simple task) by the printer filter, and then just sent to a specific network address (just as netcat could do). That would nearly eliminate the need for printer drivers I think. The only thing that comes to my mind is... how does it handle duplexing and other printer-HARDWARE specific things? Can they also be coded in a PDF file? Really, I like the approach of having PDF as a universal printer language (even though it's not 100% safe from a security point of view, but that doesn't matter on the home consumer market anyway). It would remove any need complicated things like (in my opinion) the CUPS configuration. You just need to enter the IP of the printer - done; and it doesn't even matter of this is a wired or wireless connection! Maybe even lowest-end USB devices can accept a PDF data stream... Think about that: % netcat 192.168.123.456 /tmp/printing.pdf or even % cat /tmp/inkpee.pdf /dev/ulpt0 to make the printer start printing... With standardized PDF instructions, there would be no need for artificial OS barriers. PDF is known. No need to port any drivers, to create wrappers or jump though hoops. Note that the system's DEFAULT printing facility (the printer spooler) would be a perfect means to plug in. Printer filters could be easily implemented, i. e. only _one_ filter needs to be present: one that converts an application's PS to PDF and the send it to the printer's local port or IP address. All the parts needed for that task are already present (and have been for many years). Would be interesting to see how this develops. Thanks for sharing that info, sounds really good. PDF is not exactly PS, but it does use a subset of the instructions. As near as I can tell this is how they're using it, as it is only 1.7 or so onwards. The other thing you will notice is that its mostly on MFC's, so I believe they're using the PS chipset to encode a scanned doc to PDF; I'm not sure it works the other way around, and I may even be wrong about what they're doing but I think it is very suspect. A PS chipset is only an interpreter - it cannot normally encode PS, only read a PS stream and rasterise it. But they may have extended it in only this case. As for printing PDF, maybe... time will only tell. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
DNS - slaving the root zone
Hello list, Jeremy, Doug, We're currently having a discussion on the FRnOG mailing list regarding the laughable announcement of an attack on the DNS root servers by Anonymous. I've kinda hijacked the thread to ask whether people slave the root zone or not, and why if not. Active poster, renowned blogger and AFNIC worker Stephane Bortzmeyer pointed out that it might not be a good idea and submitted the following discussion from 2007 as reference: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-August/075895.html Do you still believe slaving the root zone to be a bad idea ? I actually do it on production 8-STABLE boxes here, seems to work well enough. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: note on my messed up 2003 dell
Replacing the old battery with a new one usually solves this kind of problem. I just did this yesterday ;) On 2/17/12, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote: guys, this is just a FWIW, but it's worth bearing in mind. i just tried to change the bios settings so that the old computer would boot from CD first. no-joy. long-story short, months in the garage or just-age must have ruined this box. -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: MFC 7840W under CUPS
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:33:33 +1000, Da Rock wrote: PDF is not exactly PS, but it does use a subset of the instructions. That's correct, but both formats share essential parts of functionality. Conversion between them is relatively easy. The other thing you will notice is that its mostly on MFC's, so I believe they're using the PS chipset to encode a scanned doc to PDF; I'm not sure it works the other way around, and I may even be wrong about what they're doing but I think it is very suspect. Yes, PDF output of scanned documents (even multi-page ones) seems to be standard today (which is mostly a welcome solution for storing and re-printing scanned documents). A PS chipset is only an interpreter - it cannot normally encode PS, only read a PS stream and rasterise it. But they may have extended it in only this case. As for printing PDF, maybe... time will only tell. I held a short lecture about PS many years ago. If I remember my own words correctly, the PS circuit in a printer is a little processor complex that processes the PS programming language to do rasterization (from vector data or embedded pixel objects), it could do calculations, some transformations (like rotation), some other functions (like repeating the output n times, use or not use the duplexer etc. depending on the printer's hardware). If this facility could be used to generate data and send it back through the network interface, or keep it in local storage so network access can pick it up (e. g. by FTP, NFS, CIFS/SMB), things would be easy as those mechanisms can be kept internally in the printer without requiring arbitrary drivers to make things work. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: MFC 7840W under CUPS
On 02/17/12 23:33, Da Rock wrote: On 02/17/12 23:14, Polytropon wrote: On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:00:38 -0500, Jerry wrote: It appears that ps is no-longer the format of choice but is being replaced by PDF, a format that is natively supported by many printers. Jerry, I wanted to point out that PS still seems to be the format that _applications_ use as output format for printing. Even though especially office applications (such as Abiword or LibreOffice) have a built-in PDF file generator, the printing output that is sent to the printing subsystem (lpr, CUPS, whatever) is in PS format and gets converted to what the printer needs by the proper printer filter (driver). The print to file output method typically creates PS, at least on UNIX, Linux, MacOS X and other operating system families. If printers would natively support PDF data instead of unknown arbitrary commands to move the printing head - things would be MUCH LESS complicated on the OS's side. Data just needs to be generated in PDF natively, or converted from PS to PDF (simple task) by the printer filter, and then just sent to a specific network address (just as netcat could do). That would nearly eliminate the need for printer drivers I think. The only thing that comes to my mind is... how does it handle duplexing and other printer-HARDWARE specific things? Can they also be coded in a PDF file? Really, I like the approach of having PDF as a universal printer language (even though it's not 100% safe from a security point of view, but that doesn't matter on the home consumer market anyway). It would remove any need complicated things like (in my opinion) the CUPS configuration. You just need to enter the IP of the printer - done; and it doesn't even matter of this is a wired or wireless connection! Maybe even lowest-end USB devices can accept a PDF data stream... Think about that: % netcat 192.168.123.456 /tmp/printing.pdf or even % cat /tmp/inkpee.pdf /dev/ulpt0 to make the printer start printing... With standardized PDF instructions, there would be no need for artificial OS barriers. PDF is known. No need to port any drivers, to create wrappers or jump though hoops. Note that the system's DEFAULT printing facility (the printer spooler) would be a perfect means to plug in. Printer filters could be easily implemented, i. e. only _one_ filter needs to be present: one that converts an application's PS to PDF and the send it to the printer's local port or IP address. All the parts needed for that task are already present (and have been for many years). Would be interesting to see how this develops. Thanks for sharing that info, sounds really good. PDF is not exactly PS, but it does use a subset of the instructions. As near as I can tell this is how they're using it, as it is only 1.7 or so onwards. The other thing you will notice is that its mostly on MFC's, so I believe they're using the PS chipset to encode a scanned doc to PDF; I'm not sure it works the other way around, and I may even be wrong about what they're doing but I think it is very suspect. A PS chipset is only an interpreter - it cannot normally encode PS, only read a PS stream and rasterise it. But they may have extended it in only this case. As for printing PDF, maybe... time will only tell. What I forgot to add is that it would be no more difficult to print PDF as it is to print PS - you'd use the same functions but a slight difference in the quantity of data. I have yet to see a printer that will do it though ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is the list down?
Hi, On Friday 17 February 2012 08:49:37 Da Rock wrote: On 02/17/12 11:21, Al Plant wrote: I have not seen any action in 2 days. There's been plenty of action in the last 2 days. Maybe check your mail server logs for errors? I noticed the same thing. The missing mails arrived all meanwhile over night. Mails from other sources have been received normally during this period of time. Things like this happen once in a while. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: MFC 7840W under CUPS
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:14:47 +0100 Polytropon articulated: Think about that: % netcat 192.168.123.456 /tmp/printing.pdf I can do either: nc 192.168.1.100 9100 /tmp/print.pdf or nc 192.168.1.100 9100 /tmp/print.ps right now without any problems. If you looked at the http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting page, and you apparently did, then you will have noticed the Making Printing Just Work concept that I suggested several months ago, only to be met by the usual naysayers claiming it would never happen or be feasible. Obviously, these are the same individuals who claimed that the bumblebee could not fly. If you have not all ready checked out http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting/pdf_as_standard_print_job_format, you might want to give it a quick once over. It is very informative. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: MFC 7840W under CUPS
On 02/17/12 23:57, Polytropon wrote: On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:33:33 +1000, Da Rock wrote: PDF is not exactly PS, but it does use a subset of the instructions. That's correct, but both formats share essential parts of functionality. Conversion between them is relatively easy. The other thing you will notice is that its mostly on MFC's, so I believe they're using the PS chipset to encode a scanned doc to PDF; I'm not sure it works the other way around, and I may even be wrong about what they're doing but I think it is very suspect. Yes, PDF output of scanned documents (even multi-page ones) seems to be standard today (which is mostly a welcome solution for storing and re-printing scanned documents). A PS chipset is only an interpreter - it cannot normally encode PS, only read a PS stream and rasterise it. But they may have extended it in only this case. As for printing PDF, maybe... time will only tell. I held a short lecture about PS many years ago. If I remember my own words correctly, the PS circuit in a printer is a little processor complex that processes the PS programming language to do rasterization (from vector data or embedded pixel objects), it could do calculations, some transformations (like rotation), some other functions (like repeating the output n times, use or not use the duplexer etc. depending on the printer's hardware). If this facility could be used to generate data and send it back through the network interface, or keep it in local storage so network access can pick it up (e. g. by FTP, NFS, CIFS/SMB), things would be easy as those mechanisms can be kept internally in the printer without requiring arbitrary drivers to make things work. RIP processors do/did that. They're normally an external computer system designed to do just that: act as a print server (sometimes a bit like CUPS with a web interface) and you can store, hold, print jobs. Graphics organisations still use them, but since processors are so fast these days they don't always bother with some printers. With these functions, the operator could receive a print job and direct it to whatever printer was available/best suited and run it. Some used them in the larger print shops for online printing from major contracts to automate the processing of jobs (immediate/monthly/weekly, etc). You could also send the ripped file (or a PS encoded one) anywhere you want as well. The files were normally sent RAW and processed on the RIP to whatever was needed or wanted, and there was PS on the machine. These things were hooked up directly to the printer (no network - could be though - just a scsi connection directly to the print engine) so they had no real need for PS except to encode it. The ones I worked on were NT based and some linux based ones. Fun times... :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Processor question
Hi, On Thursday 16 February 2012 17:20:23 krad wrote: On 14 February 2012 20:28, Frank Shute fr...@shute.org.uk wrote: On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 02:47:08PM -0500, Mike Dockery wrote: Greetings, Aloha, I have been a user of Linux since 1994, but most of the linux distros seem to be getting away from freedom... which is why I chose it in the first place. They seem intent on forcing things that do not work well (like pulseaudio and nouveau) on everyone. Freedom of choice is always best. Yeah, I used to use Linux but they became a bunch of Freedom Nazis controlled by big companies. Happily using FreeBSD for 10 years. My question is: Should I try the amd64 version of FreeBSD with my Intel Core i7-2600 processor or should I use the i386? Generally, for an x86 machine with 4GB or greater memory use amd64. Memory less than that use i386. I would actually say 3GB or more, as if you have a machine at 4gb and run a 32bit os you waste the best part of a gig or more due to pci addressing etc I would use the amd64 version in any case. I was forced once to switch because I needed more than 4GB memory for a single application. I noticed then that most things went smoother then. Erich ie. you almost certainly want to use amd64, I should think. I hope to give FreeBSD a try later this month. Excellent. Best of luck and any problems not covered in the handbook or google, post here. Welcome to FreeBSD! Thanks, Mike Dockery Regards, -- Frank Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: MFC 7840W under CUPS
On 02/18/12 00:22, Jerry wrote: On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:14:47 +0100 Polytropon articulated: Think about that: % netcat 192.168.123.456 /tmp/printing.pdf I can do either: nc 192.168.1.100 9100 /tmp/print.pdf or nc 192.168.1.100 9100 /tmp/print.ps right now without any problems. If you looked at the http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting page, and you apparently did, then you will have noticed the Making Printing Just Work concept that I suggested several months ago, only to be met by the usual naysayers claiming it would never happen or be feasible. Obviously, these are the same individuals who claimed that the bumblebee could not fly. You realise that you could do this with PS for ages? Nothing has changed as such in years... Finding a printer that accepts PS? That was the problem. Mostly the issue is with GDI or some other propietry printer. If the manufacturers accept a standard (and that means M$ needs to stop interfering, which it seems they now are and are moving away from GDI themselves) then it will all just work. PCL isn't much different, and most respectable printers have been using that since the beginning of time, or thereabouts, just more of them now. You will find it hard to convince graphics to give up PS though, its pretty deeply rooted in their culture :) If you have not all ready checked out http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting/pdf_as_standard_print_job_format, you might want to give it a quick once over. It is very informative. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: sysinstall cant seem to download the kernel source.
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Brent Clark wrote: I seem to have this problem with sysinstall, whereby I cant seem to download the kernel source. I tried following this example http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/freebsd-install-kernel-source-code/ I use Install from an FTP server The error message I get is Unable to transfer the sbase distribution from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org.; Does anyone know of another way to get the kernel source. Cvs or svn. Depends on the version of FreeBSD. For 9, http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=29172 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Maildir Format
Hello, I'm setting up the email system on my server. I got rid of sendmail and installed postfix, and I will be installing dovecot. I researched the difference between mbox and maildir formats, and I'm going to go with the Maildir. I'm running everything on ZFS, so many small files shouldn't be a problem. My problem is, before I made any of these changes and was using the default sendmail setup, I was using /usr/bin/mail to read my periodic and cron outputs. However, after I installed postfix with the Maildir delivery option, I quickly realized that /usr/bin/mail doesn't support Maildir. Can anyone suggest a MUA which has support for Maildir that I can use? I'm looking for something simple and command line, similar to /usr/bin/mail that I can use until I get around to installing Dovecot. The only one I know of off the top of my head is mutt. I've never had much use, and thus experience, with unix MUAs. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Maildir Format
On Fri, February 17, 2012 12:16 pm, APseudoUtopia wrote: Hello, I'm setting up the email system on my server. I got rid of sendmail and installed postfix, and I will be installing dovecot. I researched the difference between mbox and maildir formats, and I'm going to go with the Maildir. I'm running everything on ZFS, so many small files shouldn't be a problem. My problem is, before I made any of these changes and was using the default sendmail setup, I was using /usr/bin/mail to read my periodic and cron outputs. However, after I installed postfix with the Maildir delivery option, I quickly realized that /usr/bin/mail doesn't support Maildir. Can anyone suggest a MUA which has support for Maildir that I can use? I'm looking for something simple and command line, similar to /usr/bin/mail that I can use until I get around to installing Dovecot. The only one I know of off the top of my head is mutt. I've never had much use, and thus experience, with unix MUAs. Thank you. Honestly, for one or two pure-text emails a day, I find 'less' on the most recent files in the Maildir folder works fairly well, especially for just a couple of days... Daniel T. Staal --- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Maildir Format
Hi, Reference: From: APseudoUtopia apseudouto...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:16:29 -0500 Message-id: CAKOHg=PpeqZjEN8Romfn=by2yrtjfjnj7-jqvogorrt+ygv...@mail.gmail.com APseudoUtopia wrote: Hello, I'm setting up the email system on my server. I got rid of sendmail and installed postfix, and I will be installing dovecot. I researched the difference between mbox and maildir formats, and I'm going to go with the Maildir. I'm running everything on ZFS, so many small files shouldn't be a problem. My problem is, before I made any of these changes and was using the default sendmail setup, I was using /usr/bin/mail to read my periodic and cron outputs. However, after I installed postfix with the Maildir delivery option, I quickly realized that /usr/bin/mail doesn't support Maildir. FYI an mbox splitter prog I wrote http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/jhs/bin/public/mailsplit/ Can anyone suggest a MUA which has support for Maildir that I can use? I'm looking for something simple and command line, similar to /usr/bin/mail that I can use until I get around to installing Dovecot. The only one I know of off the top of my head is mutt. I've never had much use, and thus experience, with unix MUAs. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, indent with . Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Maildir Format
On 17/02/2012 17:16, APseudoUtopia wrote: Hello, I'm setting up the email system on my server. I got rid of sendmail and installed postfix, and I will be installing dovecot. I researched the difference between mbox and maildir formats, and I'm going to go with the Maildir. I'm running everything on ZFS, so many small files shouldn't be a problem. My problem is, before I made any of these changes and was using the default sendmail setup, I was using /usr/bin/mail to read my periodic and cron outputs. However, after I installed postfix with the Maildir delivery option, I quickly realized that /usr/bin/mail doesn't support Maildir. Can anyone suggest a MUA which has support for Maildir that I can use? I'm looking for something simple and command line, similar to /usr/bin/mail that I can use until I get around to installing Dovecot. The only one I know of off the top of my head is mutt. I've never had much use, and thus experience, with unix MUAs. why not just forward them to your gmail? Paul. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- - Paul Macdonald IFDNRG Ltd Web and video hosting - t: 0131 5548070 m: 07970339546PLEASE NOTE NEW MOBILE e: p...@ifdnrg.com w: http://www.ifdnrg.com - IFDNRG 40 Maritime Street Edinburgh EH6 6SA - ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Maildir Format
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012, APseudoUtopia wrote: Hello, I'm setting up the email system on my server. I got rid of sendmail and installed postfix, and I will be installing dovecot. I researched the difference between mbox and maildir formats, and I'm going to go with the Maildir. I'm running everything on ZFS, so many small files shouldn't be a problem. My problem is, before I made any of these changes and was using the default sendmail setup, I was using /usr/bin/mail to read my periodic and cron outputs. However, after I installed postfix with the Maildir delivery option, I quickly realized that /usr/bin/mail doesn't support Maildir. Can anyone suggest a MUA which has support for Maildir that I can use? I'm looking for something simple and command line, similar to /usr/bin/mail that I can use until I get around to installing Dovecot. The only one I know of off the top of my head is mutt. I've never had much use, and thus experience, with unix MUAs. Mutt would be my choice. I have been using it for over a decade, and it handles Maildir as well as other common mailbox formats. Bill -- INTERNET: b...@celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820 Fax:(206) 232-9186 Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792 The essence of all slavery consists in taking the produce of another's labor by force. It is immaterial whether this force be founded on ownership of the slave or ownership of the money that he must get to live on. Leo Tolstoy 1891 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Cryopid for FreeBSD?
Hello, is there an equivalent to Linux' cryopid for FreeBSD? http://code.google.com/p/cryopid/ Thanks, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Maildir Format
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:06:01 -0800, Bill Campbell wrote: Mutt would be my choice. I have been using it for over a decade, and it handles Maildir as well as other common mailbox formats. Also pine should be able to handle it (even though it could be called overcomplex in relation to /usr/bin/mail). By the way, the suggestion of redirecting the system's mail output to a specific user account or external mail account removes the choice for a program for local use. So the user's default MUA (even if it's a web based solution) could be used. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Maildir Format
On 2/17/2012 11:16 AM, APseudoUtopia wrote: Hello, I'm setting up the email system on my server. I got rid of sendmail and installed postfix, and I will be installing dovecot. I researched the difference between mbox and maildir formats, and I'm going to go with the Maildir. I'm running everything on ZFS, so many small files shouldn't be a problem. My problem is, before I made any of these changes and was using the default sendmail setup, I was using /usr/bin/mail to read my periodic and cron outputs. However, after I installed postfix with the Maildir delivery option, I quickly realized that /usr/bin/mail doesn't support Maildir. Can anyone suggest a MUA which has support for Maildir that I can use? I'm looking for something simple and command line, similar to /usr/bin/mail that I can use until I get around to installing Dovecot. The only one I know of off the top of my head is mutt. I've never had much use, and thus experience, with unix MUAs. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I use dovecot to serve the mail, and access using imap for the clients. Almost any client you're probably going to use will support imap, so maildir vs mbox doesn't matter. It also means I have it set up to access the mail from anywhere. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: DNS - slaving the root zone
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 02:41:57PM +0100, Damien Fleuriot wrote: Hello list, Jeremy, Doug, We're currently having a discussion on the FRnOG mailing list regarding the laughable announcement of an attack on the DNS root servers by Anonymous. I've kinda hijacked the thread to ask whether people slave the root zone or not, and why if not. Active poster, renowned blogger and AFNIC worker Stephane Bortzmeyer pointed out that it might not be a good idea and submitted the following discussion from 2007 as reference: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-August/075895.html Do you still believe slaving the root zone to be a bad idea ? The important thread (IMO) is actually here: https://lists.dns-oarc.net/pipermail/dns-operations/2007-July/thread.html#1804 These are the people you should be asking this question to given the announcement. Folks like Paul Vixie and David Conrad. Also, just a tip: given that at an old job I dealt with DoS and DDoS attacks on our infrastructure on a near-daily basis (advice to public: never run a public IRC server on a major network), I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the claim as laughable. Folks can bring up the distribution of all the root servers, anycast, etc. all they want, but nobody truly knows how distributed the DDoS will be. Sit back and think about that one for a little while, let it stew in your mind. Rest assured, if what is being proposed turns out to be accomplished, you will be quite surprised at how many large Fortune 500 companies and financial organisations are impacted by it. I can't go into details, but I can assure you with utmost certainty that many of them rely on Internet transit for very important transactions -- most of which use DNS-based lookups for all sorts of things. Given the state of IT in general these days, chances are very few companies have thought ahead in this case. Though DNS may not simply break 100% (duh), failed lookups and oddities occurring all over the place would be likely. If you've ever worked at a large corporation, you'll know how easy it is for people to incorrectly assess reasons for outages -- it wouldn't surprise me if it took said companies 24-48 hours to figure out what was truly the root cause. TL;DR -- don't be hasty when it comes to threats on the Internet on such a large scale. It's amazing the infrastructure we have today works at all anyway. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, US | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP 4BD6C0CB | ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: how can i offload a 600m file without graphic tools?
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 02:27:07PM +0100, Polytropon wrote: Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:27:07 +0100 From: Polytropon free...@edvax.de Subject: Re: how can i offload a 600m file without graphic tools? To: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:32:07 -0800, Gary Kline wrote: w can i move a file from my home filesystem to my one disc drive without using a GUI? i don't have a graphic interface on my FBSD system and want to save a 600MB file to my cdrom? thanks for tips on what i have Long forgotten! I hope I can interpret your question correctly: You need to burn a 600 MB file to a disc (typically a CD, but could be a DVD too)? That's quite easy: CDs typically use the ISO-9660 file system which mkisofs (from ports) creates, and a program like cdrecord or cdrdao can burn it to the media. For a DVD, growisofs will do that part. Step 1: % mkisofs -r -J -o bigfile.iso bigfile where bigfile is the file you want to store. The flags -r and -J make sure the file system will also be properly interpreted on non-standard systems; -o specifies the output file. Step 2: % cdrecord dev=0,0,0 speed=10 -v -eject -tao -data bigfile.iso In order to know _what_ device to record to, run % camcontrol devlist Make sure you have proper permissions to access the files in /dev that are needed. If not, use sudo prefix or do the required parts using su. In the camcontrol devlist output, available drives will be listed. Bus, taget and LUN will form the trinity address that will then be used in the dev= parameter. After successful burning, % rm bigfile.iso as it's not needed anymore. You can also use a piping mechanism from mkisofs to cdrecord, but I didn't want to make it that complicated. :-) In case you need to burn a DVD because the file gets bigger than 650..700 MB, only one step is needed: % growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd -r -J bigfile In this case, /dev/dvd is a symlink to /dev/cd0 (see camcontrol devlist output again, but look for the associated SCSI devices). If you already have the ISO file, use % growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=bigfile.iso to record it to DVD. Note that there are other ways to store data on CDs and DVDs which are intendedly less compatible by omitting the ISO 9660 file system. :-) i was going to ask you offlist, but then found this stuff -- or a subset of -- in my howto file. then, yesterday, i finally tried to change the bios of my target machine. busted. rats! -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
One or Four?
Hiya, A question has arisen with the implementation of bsdinstall in 9.x as opposed to sysinstall in 8.x and previous versions of FreeBSD. It has always been FreeBSD's default to create four partitions and swap as such: / /tmp /var /usr swap The recent changes in 9.x with bsdinstall use a default behavior which creates only one partition and swap, with everything living under a single / partition as such: / swap We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. This is not a discussion of MBR vs GPT. The default moving forward from 9.x will be to use GPT. We realize that one can use bsdinstall to create as many partitions as one wants. However, the new default is for one partition and swap. We want to know if people would prefer the older style default with four partitions and swap when selecting Guided Partitioning and Use Entire Disk. Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. Thanks, Dave -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) da...@vicor.com david.robi...@fisglobal.com _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Robison, Dave wrote: We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. For a user/desktop machine, I prefer one root partition. For other roles like a server, I prefer multiple partitions which have been sized for the intended usage. Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Adobe Linux Flash
On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:33 PM, Da Rock wrote: Problem, I think lies, in the symlink. You don't need it, kill it and run nspluginwrapper - the only flash file in your browser plugins directory should be prefixed with npwrapper. There may be an issue with nspluginwrapper (currently being discussed - can anyone confirm if its similar?) that has to resolved. Just to check, can you run `find /usr/local/ | grep ld-linux.so` and see if it comes up? It could show ld-linux.so or the same followed by a number. Copy the result here. I deleted both symlinks and ran the find, no results returned. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Maildir Format
On 17/02/2012 18:16, APseudoUtopia wrote: Hello, I'm setting up the email system on my server. I got rid of sendmail and installed postfix, and I will be installing dovecot. I researched the difference between mbox and maildir formats, and I'm going to go with the Maildir. I'm running everything on ZFS, so many small files shouldn't be a problem. My problem is, before I made any of these changes and was using the default sendmail setup, I was using /usr/bin/mail to read my periodic and cron outputs. However, after I installed postfix with the Maildir delivery option, I quickly realized that /usr/bin/mail doesn't support Maildir. Can anyone suggest a MUA which has support for Maildir that I can use? I'm looking for something simple and command line, similar to /usr/bin/mail that I can use until I get around to installing Dovecot. The only one I know of off the top of my head is mutt. I've never had much use, and thus experience, with unix MUAs. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Alpine and Mutt, try mutt first and if you do not like it try alpine. There are others (gnus, elm and cone). Elm being more or less the ancester of both pine and mutt. I never tested any of these three though. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: One or Four?
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Swiger Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 2:18 PM To: david.robi...@fisglobal.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One or Four? On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Robison, Dave wrote: We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. For a user/desktop machine, I prefer one root partition. For other roles like a server, I prefer multiple partitions which have been sized for the intended usage. Then does the question ultimately become... Shall we then have two algorithms and ask the user whether they are installing for the desktop versus server? If that's the case, then I think this is something I could personally live with (as it then becomes possible to obtain the old layout of 4 partitions with auto-calculated sizes ala Colin Percival's last sizing algorithm committed in version 1.149 of src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/label.c made pre-SVN 6 years 6 months ago). See http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/Attic/label.c?rev= 1.149;content-type=text%2Fx-cvsweb-markup The above link describes the partition scheme that I and colleagues seek-most to return to FreeBSD 9.x and higher. I argue that Colin's algorithm is still useful for servers and is still the preferred method of allocation for servers and thus should remain an option, even if we don't change the [new] default back to the above linked-to scheme. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Robison, Dave david.robi...@fisglobal.com wrote: Hiya, A question has arisen with the implementation of bsdinstall in 9.x as opposed to sysinstall in 8.x and previous versions of FreeBSD. It has always been FreeBSD's default to create four partitions and swap as such: / /tmp /var /usr swap The recent changes in 9.x with bsdinstall use a default behavior which creates only one partition and swap, with everything living under a single / partition as such: / swap We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. This is not a discussion of MBR vs GPT. The default moving forward from 9.x will be to use GPT. We realize that one can use bsdinstall to create as many partitions as one wants. However, the new default is for one partition and swap. We want to know if people would prefer the older style default with four partitions and swap when selecting Guided Partitioning and Use Entire Disk. Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. / and /usr should be merged together, /var should stay separate, and /tmp should be tmpfs :) At least that's my preferred server configuration starting with 9.0. I see no benefits in keeping / and /usr separate. A desktop can have /var on the same file system as well, but servers should always isolate it. Just a few days ago, a misbehaving php script filled-up my entire /var partition when it got into an endless loop. I've since realized the value of blocking repeated error log messages in php configuration, but keeping /var away from the rest was a good safety net. - Max ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
Four? There should be five! :-) Read on to find out why. On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:05:23 -0800, Robison, Dave wrote: We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. In my case, preference depends on use. When I'm unable to predict how partition occupation will develop, going with one / partition is a good approach. It can also be useful for cases like home desktops. Other cases, like dedicated servers or systems that use more than one physical disk (e. g. one system disk, one home disk) the approach of using more than one partition is welcome. I'd like to mention that using different partitions for a logical separation of mechanisms and functionalities can be a _big_ help in worst case (which you'll hopefully never will encounter, but be prepared). For example, if you have file system trouble with the /home partition, you can bring the system up in a limited state (SUM), make the partition ro and get the data. You can then boot the system into the normal state (MUM) with using the copy you made, leaving the original /home partition unmounted and untouched. In case of data recovery and forensic analysis this can be your chance to get your data back. We realize that one can use bsdinstall to create as many partitions as one wants. However, the new default is for one partition and swap. We want to know if people would prefer the older style default with four partitions and swap when selecting Guided Partitioning and Use Entire Disk. Well, to be honest, I never liked the old style default with /home being part of /usr. As I mentioned before, _my_ default style for separated partitions include: / swap /tmp /var /usr /home In special cases, add /opt or /scratch as separate partitions with intendedly limited sizes. You can see that all user data is kept independently from the rest of the system. It can easily be switched over to a separate home disk if needed. What's the reason for this? Limited partitions are often considered a problem, but they can be a system's life saver. Just imagine you have all functional parts of the system in one big / tree, let's also say /tmp is writable for users (and it's not a memory file system); now a maliciously acting user or program could fill /tmp with lots of data, occupying the full disk. Soon, /var/log cannot be written anymore, and also other processes that need to write something may get into trouble. If /tmp is a separate partition, only /tmp can get out of disk space, with /var being fully untouched. Also keep in mind that some tools like to operate on partition level, such as dump (and restore). System tools like quota can also be used on a partition level. As I mentioned before, being able to mount a partition read-only can be helpful sometimes, same goes for other mount options, such as noexec or noatime. When dealing with this low level stuff is neccessary (e. g. on embedded systems or systems that are low on resources where you need to squeeze every bit of performance by fine tuning), having individual partitions can be a big help. Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. Why not add a selection to the installer, something like this: Partition scheme [ ] all in one + swap Create one partition containing all subtrees plus one swap partition. [ ] separate partitioning + swap Create /, /var, /tmp and /usr (including home) partitions plus one swap partition. [ ] user-defined Make your own partitioning selection manually. Of course, the default SIZES for second choice should be reasonable. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 02:05:23PM -0800, Robison, Dave wrote: Hiya, A question has arisen with the implementation of bsdinstall in 9.x as opposed to sysinstall in 8.x and previous versions of FreeBSD. It has always been FreeBSD's default to create four partitions and swap as such: / /tmp /var /usr swap The recent changes in 9.x with bsdinstall use a default behavior which creates only one partition and swap, with everything living under a single / partition as such: / swap We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. I much prefer to have the choice to create partitions as I need. My typical default is: / /tmp /usr /var /homeor some other name such as /work swap That looks like 5 plus swap to me. I also want to decide the size of partitions. I have never found the default sizes to be servicable or adequate. Having said this, I occasionally have created servers with just root and swap. It depends on circumstances and need and I hope not to lose the option to choose or to have that option require some complicated and arcane/hidden procedure to choose other than the default. I have never had problems with getting disks built, newfs-ed and mounted using the Sysinstall controlled stuff. There are other things that Sysinstall needed, but choosing/creating partitions was not a problem. I understand that going to GPT means some changes, but I am sure that it should be able to create partitions of any size with probably a larger range of identifiers. Since my new machines have not arrived yet (expecting soon), I haven't explored the magic of GPT and am still rather foggy on where it fits in the overall picture. I am looking forward to get it insinuated in to my thick head soon. BSDinstall control of partitioning should just be adding features and capacity and not removing any options (except if there are some that are actually obsolete). Having said that, upgrading the language and the way options and sizes are specified is fine with me as long as it is all there, available and clearly labeled and documented. Thanks for asking, jerry This is not a discussion of MBR vs GPT. The default moving forward from 9.x will be to use GPT. We realize that one can use bsdinstall to create as many partitions as one wants. However, the new default is for one partition and swap. We want to know if people would prefer the older style default with four partitions and swap when selecting Guided Partitioning and Use Entire Disk. Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. Thanks, Dave -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) da...@vicor.com david.robi...@fisglobal.com _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. Why not add a selection to the installer, something like this: Partition scheme [ ] all in one + swap Create one partition containing all subtrees plus one swap partition. [ ] separate partitioning + swap Create /, /var, /tmp and /usr (including home) partitions plus one swap partition. [ ] user-defined Make your own partitioning selection manually. Of course, the default SIZES for second choice should be reasonable. Yes. Yes. This is the way to go. jerry -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
I would prefer having the option of four partitions for fault tolerance reasons if needed. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Devin Teske devin.te...@fisglobal.com wrote: -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Swiger Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 2:18 PM To: david.robi...@fisglobal.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One or Four? On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Robison, Dave wrote: We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. For a user/desktop machine, I prefer one root partition. For other roles like a server, I prefer multiple partitions which have been sized for the intended usage. Then does the question ultimately become... Shall we then have two algorithms and ask the user whether they are installing for the desktop versus server? If that's the case, then I think this is something I could personally live with (as it then becomes possible to obtain the old layout of 4 partitions with auto-calculated sizes ala Colin Percival's last sizing algorithm committed in version 1.149 of src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/label.c made pre-SVN 6 years 6 months ago). See http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/Attic/label.c?rev= 1.149;content-type=text%2Fx-cvsweb-markup The above link describes the partition scheme that I and colleagues seek-most to return to FreeBSD 9.x and higher. I argue that Colin's algorithm is still useful for servers and is still the preferred method of allocation for servers and thus should remain an option, even if we don't change the [new] default back to the above linked-to scheme. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On 02/18/12 08:40, Maxim Khitrov wrote: On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Robison, Dave david.robi...@fisglobal.com wrote: Hiya, A question has arisen with the implementation of bsdinstall in 9.x as opposed to sysinstall in 8.x and previous versions of FreeBSD. It has always been FreeBSD's default to create four partitions and swap as such: / /tmp /var /usr swap The recent changes in 9.x with bsdinstall use a default behavior which creates only one partition and swap, with everything living under a single / partition as such: / swap We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. This is not a discussion of MBR vs GPT. The default moving forward from 9.x will be to use GPT. We realize that one can use bsdinstall to create as many partitions as one wants. However, the new default is for one partition and swap. We want to know if people would prefer the older style default with four partitions and swap when selecting Guided Partitioning and Use Entire Disk. Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. / and /usr should be merged together, /var should stay separate, and /tmp should be tmpfs :) At least that's my preferred server configuration starting with 9.0. I see no benefits in keeping / and /usr separate. A desktop can have /var on the same file system as well, but servers should always isolate it. Just a few days ago, a misbehaving php script filled-up my entire /var partition when it got into an endless loop. I've since realized the value of blocking repeated error log messages in php configuration, but keeping /var away from the rest was a good safety net. I don't see how a server and desktop should be handled differently, in fact a desktop could be more disastrous than a server so the separate partitions have saved asses many times. /tmp should be tmpfs, yes; but / and /usr should be separate still (c'mon! It's only 1G; why quibble?) because desktop users are not always as 'diligent' as they should be with space, or something else can occur to fill it up. If it is full, then you can't put a fix in /root/, edit fstab, rc.conf, syslog.conf, anything. There are serious consequences to a full file system that can render the system useless. A server may be mission critical, production, whatever; but a desktop user doesn't want too much hassle to restore the system either, especially on a laptop. They certainly don't want to blow the system away and start again for something that silly (dramatic and over the top, I know, but a new user may do just that if they don't know how to fix it quickly without difficulty). The cost of the original layout was small, and the benefit was huge, I've still set all my systems this way (desktop/server). If you are going to change back to the old behaviour don't discriminate. And on that note: I have my hand up and waving wildly :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
I like this because it gives the user a choice, and it clearly lays out the choices based on partition schemes instead of a less-specific 'machine use' choice. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:46 PM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: Four? There should be five! :-) Read on to find out why. On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:05:23 -0800, Robison, Dave wrote: We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. In my case, preference depends on use. When I'm unable to predict how partition occupation will develop, going with one / partition is a good approach. It can also be useful for cases like home desktops. Other cases, like dedicated servers or systems that use more than one physical disk (e. g. one system disk, one home disk) the approach of using more than one partition is welcome. I'd like to mention that using different partitions for a logical separation of mechanisms and functionalities can be a _big_ help in worst case (which you'll hopefully never will encounter, but be prepared). For example, if you have file system trouble with the /home partition, you can bring the system up in a limited state (SUM), make the partition ro and get the data. You can then boot the system into the normal state (MUM) with using the copy you made, leaving the original /home partition unmounted and untouched. In case of data recovery and forensic analysis this can be your chance to get your data back. We realize that one can use bsdinstall to create as many partitions as one wants. However, the new default is for one partition and swap. We want to know if people would prefer the older style default with four partitions and swap when selecting Guided Partitioning and Use Entire Disk. Well, to be honest, I never liked the old style default with /home being part of /usr. As I mentioned before, _my_ default style for separated partitions include: / swap /tmp /var /usr /home In special cases, add /opt or /scratch as separate partitions with intendedly limited sizes. You can see that all user data is kept independently from the rest of the system. It can easily be switched over to a separate home disk if needed. What's the reason for this? Limited partitions are often considered a problem, but they can be a system's life saver. Just imagine you have all functional parts of the system in one big / tree, let's also say /tmp is writable for users (and it's not a memory file system); now a maliciously acting user or program could fill /tmp with lots of data, occupying the full disk. Soon, /var/log cannot be written anymore, and also other processes that need to write something may get into trouble. If /tmp is a separate partition, only /tmp can get out of disk space, with /var being fully untouched. Also keep in mind that some tools like to operate on partition level, such as dump (and restore). System tools like quota can also be used on a partition level. As I mentioned before, being able to mount a partition read-only can be helpful sometimes, same goes for other mount options, such as noexec or noatime. When dealing with this low level stuff is neccessary (e. g. on embedded systems or systems that are low on resources where you need to squeeze every bit of performance by fine tuning), having individual partitions can be a big help. Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. Why not add a selection to the installer, something like this: Partition scheme [ ] all in one + swap Create one partition containing all subtrees plus one swap partition. [ ] separate partitioning + swap Create /, /var, /tmp and /usr (including home) partitions plus one swap partition. [ ] user-defined Make your own partitioning selection manually. Of course, the default SIZES for second choice should be reasonable. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: One or Four?
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 2:53 PM To: Polytropon Cc: david.robi...@fisglobal.com; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One or Four? Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. Why not add a selection to the installer, something like this: Partition scheme [ ] all in one + swap Create one partition containing all subtrees plus one swap partition. [ ] separate partitioning + swap Create /, /var, /tmp and /usr (including home) partitions plus one swap partition. [ ] user-defined Make your own partitioning selection manually. Of course, the default SIZES for second choice should be reasonable. Yes. Yes. This is the way to go. I'd agree, but I'd like to envision a modular approach where multiple schemes can be maintained. E.g. a menu containing... Scheme 1: / + swap + /tmp Scheme 2: / + swap + /tmp + /var Scheme 3: / + swap + /tmp + /var + /usr Scheme 4: / + swap + /tmp + /var + /usr + /home NOTE: See what I did there? There is no option for / , explanation below. I'm actually thinking that not having a separate /tmp is: a. A security issue /tmp is by-default out-of-the-box world-writable (perms 1777). Making this world-writable bucket part of / seems silly both for Desktops and Servers alike. b. A nuisance As Da Rock points out, ... recovering your system from a file-system-full-event when using single-/ is just as difficult regardless of Desktop versus Server. Having /tmp alleviates the difficulty. c. A performance issue I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the physical performance limitations of rotating disks with respect to physical location of partitions on the spindle. Granted, seek times are light years beyond what they used to be, but allocating smaller swap and tmp partitions close to the center of the spindle is a performance-enhancing setup just as much as it is for protecting against file-system-full problems (security events included). === I'd argue that there should never be a single-/ unless you are prepared to deal with a truly 100%-full filesystem problem (especially considering that Desktop users whom select the default-everything are often not skilled enough to deal with that situation). If someone truly wants a single / and nothing else, there's manual partitioning (which should prove pretty easy in the event that you're only creating one partition and nothing else). -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. I've been doing Unix 30+ years, so there's a tendency to respond Multiple, 'cos seeing a single 1 partition on a system normaly meant it had been set up by someone clueless or lazy. Though not always, as there could very occasionaly be good reason for it. ... ZFS now muddies the water. However whichever way ... Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. No. Bad idea. Not on questions@, the list of the least clued up, the list raw beginners are referred to subscribe to. At least get a majority on hackers@ or current@ or arch@. Some answers one sees on questions@ are very good, but some are ... the other way. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, indent with . Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:11:52 -0800, Devin Teske wrote: -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 2:53 PM To: Polytropon Cc: david.robi...@fisglobal.com; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One or Four? Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. Why not add a selection to the installer, something like this: Partition scheme [ ] all in one + swap Create one partition containing all subtrees plus one swap partition. [ ] separate partitioning + swap Create /, /var, /tmp and /usr (including home) partitions plus one swap partition. [ ] user-defined Make your own partitioning selection manually. Of course, the default SIZES for second choice should be reasonable. Yes. Yes. This is the way to go. Let me change the caption of the second choice to this: [ ] traditionally separated partitioning + swap Because it's the installer's tradition to put /home into /usr. I'd agree, but I'd like to envision a modular approach where multiple schemes can be maintained. E.g. a menu containing... Scheme 1: / + swap + /tmp Scheme 2: / + swap + /tmp + /var Scheme 3: / + swap + /tmp + /var + /usr Scheme 4: / + swap + /tmp + /var + /usr + /home I'm missing scheme 5 with /opt. :-) According to combinatoric possibilities, / + swap + /tmp + /usr is also missing. It would be no good idea (in my opinion) to present the user a list of _all_ possible combinations just in case he would like to have one of them. My idea to use three options (minimal, traditional, user-defined) would be fully sufficient, as all those who have no idea what they do would use the first choice, those who intendedly want the traditional approach would use the second choice, and all those not wanting one of those would be clever enough to deal with manually defining their own scheme. I'm actually thinking that not having a separate /tmp is: a. A security issue /tmp is by-default out-of-the-box world-writable (perms 1777). Making this world-writable bucket part of / seems silly both for Desktops and Servers alike. Fully agree. I pointed out why this can be dangerous. Having /tmp in memory is good (and secure!) if it's possible (note: enough RAM needed), but not an option on systems low on RAM. This kind of possible fine tuning partition-wise (soft updates, journaling, quota, dump, ro, noexec, noatime etc.) doesn't typically take place on average desktops, but there may be cases where you need to do that. b. A nuisance As Da Rock points out, ... recovering your system from a file-system-full-event when using single-/ is just as difficult regardless of Desktop versus Server. Having /tmp alleviates the difficulty. I don't think the separation desktop vs. server serves well here. It's not about what kind of machine (or form factor) is used, but the actual _employment_ of the machine, the intended way of using it is. Note that there are also mixed forms, e. g. a home desktop that provides some server functionalities. That's why I think making a selection for partitioning schemes should take SCHEMES into mind, not server or desktop. c. A performance issue I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the physical performance limitations of rotating disks with respect to physical location of partitions on the spindle. Granted, seek times are light years beyond what they used to be, but allocating smaller swap and tmp partitions close to the center of the spindle is a performance-enhancing setup just as much as it is for protecting against file-system-full problems (security events included). As I said, sometimes you need to squeeze every bit of performance out of a machine. Fiddling with the location of certain functional pieces of the OS _on the disk_ can be a big help here. I'd argue that there should never be a single-/ unless you are prepared to deal with a truly 100%-full filesystem problem (especially considering that Desktop users whom select the default-everything are often not skilled enough to deal with that situation). If someone truly wants a single / and nothing else, there's manual partitioning (which should prove pretty easy in the event that you're only creating one partition and nothing else). Yes, that's also possible, but I think having it as a option to be checked is what especially novice users would want. They would select the first (default) choice anyway without reading, so it might be a chance to learn. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To
Re: One or Four?
On 02/17/2012 15:22, Julian H. Stacey wrote: Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. No. Bad idea. Not on questions@, the list of the least clued up, the list raw beginners are referred to subscribe to. At least get a majority on hackers@ or current@ or arch@. Some answers one sees on questions@ are very good, but some are ... the other way. Cheers, Julian Actually, the discussion and ideas so far have been very interesting and helpful. Keep it coming. Dave -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) da...@vicor.com david.robi...@fisglobal.com _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On 02/18/12 09:24, Robison, Dave wrote: On 02/17/2012 15:22, Julian H. Stacey wrote: Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. No. Bad idea. Not on questions@, the list of the least clued up, the list raw beginners are referred to subscribe to. At least get a majority on hackers@ or current@ or arch@. Some answers one sees on questions@ are very good, but some are ... the other way. So not everyone gets to vote? What happened to democracy :) Actually, the discussion and ideas so far have been very interesting and helpful. Keep it coming. It has been rather interesting to find the limits of the extreme. The performance aspects are a very good point, one of the original reasons why the layout was chosen to begin with. Not so much an issue now... but still valid. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
swap space
is there a command which can show the size of the hard drive swap? A df seems to avoid the swap area. This would be on a live production server. Thanks. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On Feb 17, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Devin Teske wrote: a. A security issue /tmp is by-default out-of-the-box world-writable (perms 1777). Yes. It works as intended even when /tmp is part of a single root partition; although mounting /tmp as a RAM- or swap-based tmpfs filesystem might be better for many situations. Making this world-writable bucket part of / seems silly both for Desktops and Servers alike. You're welcome to your opinion. However, I suspect you're expecting FreeBSD systems to always be partitioned and administered by knowledgeable BSD Unix sysadmins, and those are not always so readily available as one might assume. b. A nuisance As Da Rock points out, ... recovering your system from a file-system-full-event when using single-/ is just as difficult regardless of Desktop versus Server. Having /tmp alleviates the difficulty. It would if /tmp was mounted on a disk partition, and if it also happened to be where space was being consumed. /var/log and /home tend to be more likely locations in my experience, but YMMV. c. A performance issue I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the physical performance limitations of rotating disks with respect to physical location of partitions on the spindle. Granted, seek times are light years beyond what they used to be, but allocating smaller swap and tmp partitions close to the center of the spindle is a performance-enhancing setup just as much as it is for protecting against file-system-full problems (security events included). I suggest you do some measurements; starting with diskinfo -t, or something like HDTach for Windows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HD_Tach_Hitachi_HTS541616J9S_SB40-screenshot.png It's very typical for the outermost tracks of a disk drive to be up to twice as fast as the innermost tracks due to the greater amount of data available per cylinder on the outer tracks. These outer tracks are most often given LBA 0, and the drive writes data inwards with higher LBA #'s. [ If performance is especially critical, folks will partition the disks so that they only use the outermost third or so of the disk, to maximize read/write performance and minimize seeking; this is known as short stroking a disk... ] I'd argue that there should never be a single-/ unless you are prepared to deal with a truly 100%-full filesystem problem (especially considering that Desktop users whom select the default-everything are often not skilled enough to deal with that situation). If someone truly wants a single / and nothing else, there's manual partitioning (which should prove pretty easy in the event that you're only creating one partition and nothing else). More sophisticated partition schemes certainly can have value in terms of better isolation from unexpected logfile growth (etc), a separation of OS-provided files from user content, a separation of stuff which doesn't change often versus stuff that does, and so forth. However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- but such doesn't happen very often if you monitor your systems properly, and have time to respond to low-space conditions before they turn into out of space conditions. Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: swap space
On 2/17/2012 6:54 PM, Jim Pazarena wrote: is there a command which can show the size of the hard drive swap? % pstat -T 438/12328 files 98M/10240M swap space ---Mike -- --- Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Sentex Communications, m...@sentex.net Providing Internet services since 1994 www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada http://www.tancsa.com/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: swap space
On Feb 17, 2012, at 3:54 PM, Jim Pazarena wrote: is there a command which can show the size of the hard drive swap? A df seems to avoid the swap area. You're looking for swapinfo Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: DNS - slaving the root zone
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 02/17/2012 05:41, Damien Fleuriot wrote: Hello list, Jeremy, Doug, We're currently having a discussion on the FRnOG mailing list regarding the laughable announcement of an attack on the DNS root servers by Anonymous. Given their success at their previous endeavors, I wouldn't call it laughable. Even if they are unsuccessful at taking down all of the root servers, if *your* particular part of the Internet gets knocked down, that's pretty important to you, right? OTOH, I think that actually doing what they state they want to do will be very difficult, and not likely to produce the results that they believe it will. However, unlike some in the DNS/Security communities I do not intend to outline the deficiencies in their plan, lest they take advantage of the opportunity to improve it. :) I've kinda hijacked the thread to ask whether people slave the root zone or not, and why if not. Well there is no secret that I (and many others) think it's a good idea. Active poster, renowned blogger and AFNIC worker Stephane Bortzmeyer pointed out that it might not be a good idea and submitted the following discussion from 2007 as reference: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-August/075895.html I know Stephane professionally, and I respect his opinion about many topics. On this topic we disagree. Do you still believe slaving the root zone to be a bad idea ? I never thought it was a bad idea. I've been suggesting that people do it for years. :) To clarify, almost universally the opposition to the idea centers around the problems of users who enable this method, and then don't notice if something changes/breaks, resulting in a stale zone (or zones, depending on what you choose to slave). I have always acknowledged that this is a valid concern, just not one that I think overwhelms the virtues of doing the slaving in the first place. The method currently in comments in /etc/namedb/named.conf suggests servers generously provided by ICANN that are dedicated to allowing AXFR of various infrastructure zones. (Note, ICANN does not necessarily endorse the idea of slaving these zones for resolvers, but I do have their permission to include these servers in our named.conf.) That alleviates one of the other criticisms of slaving these zones, as it presents no load on the actual root servers at all. So in short, this is an excellent idea, I've been doing it/recommending it for years, and assuming you have the knowledge/ability to keep your resolvers up to date (and/or you're tracking our named.conf where I do it for you) then it's totally safe to do. hth, Doug - -- It's always a long day; 86400 doesn't fit into a short. Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJPPumEAAoJEFzGhvEaGryE5PUH/RmKV4VLjj+iaThsP3BMsN6M hapYkYUCLeCjPRcN1mhHuR8sjIZ+NV/UUs7MtBxxKzPkeQQx65vmY1pDD66BPIFA qAFix/BqUbpYoBKLwkPkVMCEF7JCpJ5D8r+4EedybLvxzivpbdzROrPhyOHBinTB 5hxYUfb1t1peY23C4pk3+3k9kSFm0A1lF0JhNCdsvXTl8nZF1LiCChllwN7S//mH F1jAPHqNtxi+//LzFY913yCHtNrOi2PJT+iiKBBbJxgnr5+HvzdhXATPWEzB1AZE nDZcc5+zETiFKeTn/zyk4FXoWskcgkYeOfLY1ka+afe6djWsZDb5q8GKVpThgJQ= =EmJF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: One or Four?
-Original Message- From: Chuck Swiger [mailto:cswi...@mac.com] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 3:56 PM To: Devin Teske Cc: FreeBSD - Subject: Re: One or Four? On Feb 17, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Devin Teske wrote: a. A security issue /tmp is by-default out-of-the-box world-writable (perms 1777). Yes. It works as intended even when /tmp is part of a single root partition; although mounting /tmp as a RAM- or swap-based tmpfs filesystem might be better for many situations. Making this world-writable bucket part of / seems silly both for Desktops and Servers alike. You're welcome to your opinion. However, I suspect you're expecting FreeBSD systems to always be partitioned and administered by knowledgeable BSD Unix sysadmins, and those are not always so readily available as one might assume. b. A nuisance As Da Rock points out, ... recovering your system from a file-system-full-event when using single-/ is just as difficult regardless of Desktop versus Server. Having /tmp alleviates the difficulty. It would if /tmp was mounted on a disk partition, and if it also happened to be where space was being consumed. Actually, what I meant to say was: If you have only single-/ and your filesystem becomes full, having a separate /tmp on the same physical medium can alleviate the issue of having no space to work because you can mount /tmp (as the odds of both / and /tmp filling up simultaneously and both becoming 100%-full is far-less likely to occur than having a single partition fill up to max all). Thus, having a / + /tmp is infinitely wiser than single-/ without /tmp (or any partition for that matter). The argument not necessarily being in favor of /tmp, but being dis-favorable against any scheme that involves only one partition which can blindly be filled and leave the user (at least in a single-disk scenario) no free space to do anything once-full. This is somewhat different than what you were referring to, which is that having /tmp simply for the sake of not allowing others to fill your system. Rather, I'm arguing that /tmp also saves you by giving you somewhere to work if/when you *DO* fill your /. /var/log and /home tend to be more likely locations in my experience, but YMMV. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: swap space
On Feb 17, 2012 6:55 PM, Jim Pazarena fqu...@paz.bz wrote: is there a command which can show the size of the hard drive swap? A df seems to avoid the swap area. This would be on a live production server. Thanks. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Top or vmstat ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On 02/17/2012 15:55, Chuck Swiger wrote: Yes. It works as intended even when /tmp is part of a single root partition; although mounting /tmp as a RAM- or swap-based tmpfs filesystem might be better for many situations. Sure it has its uses, but now you're jumping into new territory where the installer has to either ask the user to create tmpfs or make the decision to do it on its own. As has been stated, this is fine if sufficient RAM is available. Personally I don't like using RAM for tmp. Making this world-writable bucket part of / seems silly both for Desktops and Servers alike. You're welcome to your opinion. However, I suspect you're expecting FreeBSD systems to always be partitioned and administered by knowledgeable BSD Unix sysadmins, and those are not always so readily available as one might assume. I'm not sure why someone has to be knowledgeable to select a particular partitioning scheme. Is it better for a novice to have one big / to fill up as opposed to a separate /var or /tmp? b. A nuisance As Da Rock points out, ... recovering your system from a file-system-full-event when using single-/ is just as difficult regardless of Desktop versus Server. Having /tmp alleviates the difficulty. It would if /tmp was mounted on a disk partition, and if it also happened to be where space was being consumed. /var/log and /home tend to be more likely locations in my experience, but YMMV. Actually, in my experience I have huge problems with users misusing /tmp as a holding spot for all manner of files. I like keeping /tmp separate and smallish to discourage its use for everyday transfers. Those things belong in a users home directory, not in /tmp. However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- but such doesn't happen very often if you monitor your systems properly, and have time to respond to low-space conditions before they turn into out of space conditions. Regards, Previously you said that knowledgeable unix admins aren't as common as might be thought... now you're making the assumption that these same novice users will monitor their systems properly for low-space conditions. In a perfect world we all have snmp running properly or some other way to notify us of impending doom. In the real world these things always seem to sneak up and bite us on the behind. However this is all superfluous conversation if the installer gives each user a variety of options. You can select your one big partition scheme or go with multiple partitions depending on your preference, and from what I've read so far, this seems to be not only a reasonable idea, but also one which many people would prefer. Dave -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) da...@vicor.com david.robi...@fisglobal.com _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: swap space
On 02/17/2012 15:58, Chuck Swiger wrote: On Feb 17, 2012, at 3:54 PM, Jim Pazarena wrote: is there a command which can show the size of the hard drive swap? A df seems to avoid the swap area. You're looking for swapinfo Regards, Chuck beat me to it. swapinfo or top are the two ways I normally check. -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) da...@vicor.com david.robi...@fisglobal.com _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: One or Four?
-Original Message- From: Chuck Swiger [mailto:cswi...@mac.com] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 3:56 PM To: Devin Teske Cc: FreeBSD - Subject: Re: One or Four? On Feb 17, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Devin Teske wrote: [snip] I'd argue that there should never be a single-/ unless you are prepared to deal with a truly 100%-full filesystem problem (especially considering that Desktop users whom select the default-everything are often not skilled enough to deal with that situation). If someone truly wants a single / and nothing else, there's manual partitioning (which should prove pretty easy in the event that you're only creating one partition and nothing else). More sophisticated partition schemes certainly can have value in terms of better isolation from unexpected logfile growth (etc), a separation of OS-provided files from user content, a separation of stuff which doesn't change often versus stuff that does, and so forth. However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- Recipe for disaster: 1. You have a cron-job that pulls down /etc/master.passwd daily 2. Your cron-job also runs pwd_mkdb after SUPing down /etc/master.passwd 3. A program fills / 4. cron fires 5. pwd_mkdb can't generate databases because not enough room on filesystem 6. System can no longer be logged into 7. System is rebooted 8. Can't log in (not even as root) 9. Go into single-user mode 10. No space to work in Sure... you can call it an edge-case, but it's pretty common and this is only one of a myriad of ways we can reproduce the problem of filling-up / to cause major headaches. For example, let's say you don't have a cron-job that runs pwd_mkdb etc. Let's say you're just blissfully unaware of your disk space (or lack thereof) and you execute vipw. Exiting the program after making changes invokes pwd_mkdb and if there isn't enough disk space to accommodate the database, you're hosed. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Polytropon wrote: Why not add a selection to the installer, something like this: Partition scheme [ ] all in one + swap Create one partition containing all subtrees plus one swap partition. [ ] separate partitioning + swap Create /, /var, /tmp and /usr (including home) partitions plus one swap partition. [ ] user-defined Make your own partitioning selection manually. Of course, the default SIZES for second choice should be reasonable. I like it. This, or something very similar, seems to me like the best way to go. I am not a professional sysadmin, but have been using FreeBSD since 2.2.6. FWIW, I prefer the multi-partition approach for all the reasons already mentioned. -- Chris Hill ch...@monochrome.org ** [ Busy Expunging / ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: swap space
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Robison, Dave Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 4:11 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: swap space On 02/17/2012 15:58, Chuck Swiger wrote: On Feb 17, 2012, at 3:54 PM, Jim Pazarena wrote: is there a command which can show the size of the hard drive swap? A df seems to avoid the swap area. You're looking for swapinfo Regards, Chuck beat me to it. swapinfo or top are the two ways I normally check. I'm digging the fact that it now accepts -h to produce human-readable sizes. swapinfo didn't always support -h -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Adobe Linux Flash
Well I deleted the symlinks, swfdec, and stepped through the instructions in the handbook again. Now when I run nspluginwrapper -v -a -i as a user I get the following, Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Install plugin /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin/libflashplayer.so ... already installed system-wide, skipping Auto-install plugins from /home/sean/.mozilla/plugins Looking for plugins in /home/sean/.mozilla/plugins As root I get, Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Install plugin /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin/libflashplayer.so into /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins/npwrapper.libflashplayer.so Auto-install plugins from /root/.mozilla/plugins Looking for plugins in /root/.mozilla/plugins The directory /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins tardis# ls -al total 164 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 512 Feb 17 19:17 . drwxr-xr-x 40 root wheel 31744 Feb 17 18:58 .. -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 125728 Feb 17 19:17 npwrapper.libflashplayer.so drwxr-xr-x 7 root wheel 512 Feb 16 07:30 symlinks I tried with and without the symlink the instructions specified and it made no difference, the linux flash plugin does not appear. I am open to any ideas. Thanks for all the help in either case. Sean ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Devin Teske wrote: However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- Recipe for disaster: 1. You have a cron-job that pulls down /etc/master.passwd daily 2. Your cron-job also runs pwd_mkdb after SUPing down /etc/master.passwd Yes, I agree that this is a recipe for disaster; the reasons not very correlated to disk space, however. Even twenty years ago, handling this via YP/NIS or NetInfo would have made more sense, and nowadays folks would be far more likely to use LDAP as the network user database, instead of pushing system password database changes via SUP or similar replication mechanism locally to individual hosts. 3. A program fills / 4. cron fires 5. pwd_mkdb can't generate databases because not enough room on filesystem 6. System can no longer be logged into #5 does not imply #6: if pwd_mkdb can't build a temporary version to /etc/pwd.db.tmp /etc/spwd.db.tmp, it will exit with an error rather than invoke rename(2) to replace the working version of the password database with something that might be broken. To be very specific, I would expect one to get: /: write failed, filesystem is full pwd_mkdb: /etc/pwd.db to /etc/pwd.db.tmp: No space left on device 7. System is rebooted 8. Can't log in (not even as root) 9. Go into single-user mode 10. No space to work in Sure... you can call it an edge-case, but it's pretty common and this is only one of a myriad of ways we can reproduce the problem of filling-up / to cause major headaches. I've never heard of such a thing happening to a real FreeBSD system in the past decade or more. The closest match to the issue results in a failure of adduser(8) or pw(8) to add new users, but existing users continued to work fine. Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Adobe Linux Flash (Success)
On 02/17/12 19:27, sean wrote: Now when I run nspluginwrapper -v -a -i as a user I get the following, Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Install plugin /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin/libflashplayer.so ... already installed system-wide, skipping Auto-install plugins from /home/sean/.mozilla/plugins Looking for plugins in /home/sean/.mozilla/plugins I noticed in the above information that it was looking for the flash plugin in the plugins directory under .mozilla. There was no such directory. I created the directory and ran nspluginwrapper again and flash is now listed and working. It seems to flicker on occasions a bit but it is running. Are there any tuning options that might be available to get rid of the occasional flicker? Thanks all, Sean ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: One or Four?
-Original Message- From: Chuck Swiger [mailto:cswi...@mac.com] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 4:41 PM To: Devin Teske Cc: 'FreeBSD -' Subject: Re: One or Four? On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Devin Teske wrote: However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- Recipe for disaster: 1. You have a cron-job that pulls down /etc/master.passwd daily 2. Your cron-job also runs pwd_mkdb after SUPing down /etc/master.passwd Yes, I agree that this is a recipe for disaster; the reasons not very correlated to disk space, however. Even twenty years ago, handling this via YP/NIS or NetInfo would have made more sense, and nowadays folks would be far more likely to use LDAP as the network user database, instead of pushing system password database changes via SUP or similar replication mechanism locally to individual hosts. 3. A program fills / 4. cron fires 5. pwd_mkdb can't generate databases because not enough room on filesystem 6. System can no longer be logged into #5 does not imply #6: if pwd_mkdb can't build a temporary version to /etc/pwd.db.tmp /etc/spwd.db.tmp, it will exit with an error rather than invoke rename(2) to replace the working version of the password database with something that might be broken. Ok, then this is a departure from versions of yester-year. Glad to know that a temporary DB is built rather than rebuilding on-top of the existing DB (which last I checked 4.11 still does). To be very specific, I would expect one to get: /: write failed, filesystem is full pwd_mkdb: /etc/pwd.db to /etc/pwd.db.tmp: No space left on device Yeah, 4.11 wasn't so nice. 7. System is rebooted 8. Can't log in (not even as root) 9. Go into single-user mode 10. No space to work in Sure... you can call it an edge-case, but it's pretty common and this is only one of a myriad of ways we can reproduce the problem of filling-up / to cause major headaches. I've never heard of such a thing happening to a real FreeBSD system in the past decade or more. Only only needs to go back to 4.11 for this time-bomb (which still bites us at least once every 6-12 months in production -- mind you we still employ about 3,000 4.x systems and are migrating to 8.x this year). -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On 02/18/12 10:40, Chuck Swiger wrote: On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Devin Teske wrote: However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- Recipe for disaster: 1. You have a cron-job that pulls down /etc/master.passwd daily 2. Your cron-job also runs pwd_mkdb after SUPing down /etc/master.passwd Yes, I agree that this is a recipe for disaster; the reasons not very correlated to disk space, however. Even twenty years ago, handling this via YP/NIS or NetInfo would have made more sense, and nowadays folks would be far more likely to use LDAP as the network user database, instead of pushing system password database changes via SUP or similar replication mechanism locally to individual hosts. 3. A program fills / 4. cron fires 5. pwd_mkdb can't generate databases because not enough room on filesystem 6. System can no longer be logged into #5 does not imply #6: if pwd_mkdb can't build a temporary version to /etc/pwd.db.tmp /etc/spwd.db.tmp, it will exit with an error rather than invoke rename(2) to replace the working version of the password database with something that might be broken. To be very specific, I would expect one to get: /: write failed, filesystem is full pwd_mkdb: /etc/pwd.db to /etc/pwd.db.tmp: No space left on device 7. System is rebooted 8. Can't log in (not even as root) 9. Go into single-user mode 10. No space to work in Sure... you can call it an edge-case, but it's pretty common and this is only one of a myriad of ways we can reproduce the problem of filling-up / to cause major headaches. I've never heard of such a thing happening to a real FreeBSD system in the past decade or more. The closest match to the issue results in a failure of adduser(8) or pw(8) to add new users, but existing users continued to work fine. These are edge cases that _do_ happen - Linux (heaven forbid!) is reknown for the all /, and I've been unable to boot properly into it with a full disk. I had to use a live disk to rescue it which took hours thanks to the $%^! lvm filesystem. Its just so easy to run a multi partition as opposed to an all /. And how much does it cost/hurt to do it (especially given the inordinately large hdd's these days)? Next to nix (pardon the pun :) ). The reduction in problems for new users should be an incentive as well. As for how quickly a disk can fill - I'm an expert :) I can fill a terabyte disk in a matter of hours with video and not notice. The transfers can be tricky to coordinate seeing as the disk fills faster than I can move the large files to another filesystem. And I haven't even mentioned some of the games that I'm sure a novice desktop user will use... You don't have to necessarily 'hose' the system to render it unusable. Just have some obscure program or service that requires something like a temp file or the like to stop it from working, and make it difficult to find whats wrong. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Adobe Linux Flash (Success)
On 02/18/12 10:48, sean wrote: On 02/17/12 19:27, sean wrote: Now when I run nspluginwrapper -v -a -i as a user I get the following, Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Install plugin /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin/libflashplayer.so ... already installed system-wide, skipping Auto-install plugins from /home/sean/.mozilla/plugins Looking for plugins in /home/sean/.mozilla/plugins I noticed in the above information that it was looking for the flash plugin in the plugins directory under .mozilla. There was no such directory. I created the directory and ran nspluginwrapper again and flash is now listed and working. It seems to flicker on occasions a bit but it is running. Are there any tuning options that might be available to get rid of the occasional flicker? I was just going to look into it further... glad you got it working. The flicker seems to be a new 'feature' for flash these days - also available on linux :) I haven't discovered any fix/tune for it, but if you find one post back so we can all enjoy ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On 02/18/12 10:55, Da Rock wrote: On 02/18/12 10:40, Chuck Swiger wrote: On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Devin Teske wrote: However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- Recipe for disaster: 1. You have a cron-job that pulls down /etc/master.passwd daily 2. Your cron-job also runs pwd_mkdb after SUPing down /etc/master.passwd Yes, I agree that this is a recipe for disaster; the reasons not very correlated to disk space, however. Even twenty years ago, handling this via YP/NIS or NetInfo would have made more sense, and nowadays folks would be far more likely to use LDAP as the network user database, instead of pushing system password database changes via SUP or similar replication mechanism locally to individual hosts. 3. A program fills / 4. cron fires 5. pwd_mkdb can't generate databases because not enough room on filesystem 6. System can no longer be logged into #5 does not imply #6: if pwd_mkdb can't build a temporary version to /etc/pwd.db.tmp /etc/spwd.db.tmp, it will exit with an error rather than invoke rename(2) to replace the working version of the password database with something that might be broken. To be very specific, I would expect one to get: /: write failed, filesystem is full pwd_mkdb: /etc/pwd.db to /etc/pwd.db.tmp: No space left on device 7. System is rebooted 8. Can't log in (not even as root) 9. Go into single-user mode 10. No space to work in Sure... you can call it an edge-case, but it's pretty common and this is only one of a myriad of ways we can reproduce the problem of filling-up / to cause major headaches. I've never heard of such a thing happening to a real FreeBSD system in the past decade or more. The closest match to the issue results in a failure of adduser(8) or pw(8) to add new users, but existing users continued to work fine. These are edge cases that _do_ happen - Linux (heaven forbid!) is reknown for the all /, and I've been unable to boot properly into it with a full disk. I had to use a live disk to rescue it which took hours thanks to the $%^! lvm filesystem. Its just so easy to run a multi partition as opposed to an all /. And how much does it cost/hurt to do it (especially given the inordinately large hdd's these days)? Next to nix (pardon the pun :) ). The reduction in problems for new users should be an incentive as well. As for how quickly a disk can fill - I'm an expert :) I can fill a terabyte disk in a matter of hours with video and not notice. The transfers can be tricky to coordinate seeing as the disk fills faster than I can move the large files to another filesystem. And I haven't even mentioned some of the games that I'm sure a novice desktop user will use... You don't have to necessarily 'hose' the system to render it unusable. Just have some obscure program or service that requires something like a temp file or the like to stop it from working, and make it difficult to find whats wrong. I forgot to mention that the probable reason you haven't heard of any such problems on real FreeBSD _is_ because it doesn't use the all /, or a qualified sysadmin is watching over it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: One or Four?
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Da Rock Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 4:55 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One or Four? On 02/18/12 10:40, Chuck Swiger wrote: On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Devin Teske wrote: However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- Recipe for disaster: 1. You have a cron-job that pulls down /etc/master.passwd daily 2. Your cron-job also runs pwd_mkdb after SUPing down /etc/master.passwd Yes, I agree that this is a recipe for disaster; the reasons not very correlated to disk space, however. Even twenty years ago, handling this via YP/NIS or NetInfo would have made more sense, and nowadays folks would be far more likely to use LDAP as the network user database, instead of pushing system password database changes via SUP or similar replication mechanism locally to individual hosts. 3. A program fills / 4. cron fires 5. pwd_mkdb can't generate databases because not enough room on filesystem 6. System can no longer be logged into #5 does not imply #6: if pwd_mkdb can't build a temporary version to /etc/pwd.db.tmp /etc/spwd.db.tmp, it will exit with an error rather than invoke rename(2) to replace the working version of the password database with something that might be broken. To be very specific, I would expect one to get: /: write failed, filesystem is full pwd_mkdb: /etc/pwd.db to /etc/pwd.db.tmp: No space left on device 7. System is rebooted 8. Can't log in (not even as root) 9. Go into single-user mode 10. No space to work in Sure... you can call it an edge-case, but it's pretty common and this is only one of a myriad of ways we can reproduce the problem of filling-up / to cause major headaches. I've never heard of such a thing happening to a real FreeBSD system in the past decade or more. The closest match to the issue results in a failure of adduser(8) or pw(8) to add new users, but existing users continued to work fine. These are edge cases that _do_ happen - Linux (heaven forbid!) is reknown for the all /, and I've been unable to boot properly into it with a full disk. I had to use a live disk to rescue it which took hours thanks to the $%^! lvm filesystem. Its just so easy to run a multi partition as opposed to an all /. And how much does it cost/hurt to do it (especially given the inordinately large hdd's these days)? Next to nix (pardon the pun :) ). The reduction in problems for new users should be an incentive as well. +1 I imagine an increased load on -questions@ for users that need extra hand-holding when they fill their entire disks versus incidentally filling a single partition. One requires instructions involving a live disc versus the latter which involves dinking with a still-very-usable system. Time-to-recover is inordinately skewed between the two situations, IMHO -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: One or Four?
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Da Rock Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 5:00 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One or Four? On 02/18/12 10:55, Da Rock wrote: On 02/18/12 10:40, Chuck Swiger wrote: On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Devin Teske wrote: However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- Recipe for disaster: 1. You have a cron-job that pulls down /etc/master.passwd daily 2. Your cron-job also runs pwd_mkdb after SUPing down /etc/master.passwd Yes, I agree that this is a recipe for disaster; the reasons not very correlated to disk space, however. Even twenty years ago, handling this via YP/NIS or NetInfo would have made more sense, and nowadays folks would be far more likely to use LDAP as the network user database, instead of pushing system password database changes via SUP or similar replication mechanism locally to individual hosts. 3. A program fills / 4. cron fires 5. pwd_mkdb can't generate databases because not enough room on filesystem 6. System can no longer be logged into #5 does not imply #6: if pwd_mkdb can't build a temporary version to /etc/pwd.db.tmp /etc/spwd.db.tmp, it will exit with an error rather than invoke rename(2) to replace the working version of the password database with something that might be broken. To be very specific, I would expect one to get: /: write failed, filesystem is full pwd_mkdb: /etc/pwd.db to /etc/pwd.db.tmp: No space left on device 7. System is rebooted 8. Can't log in (not even as root) 9. Go into single-user mode 10. No space to work in Sure... you can call it an edge-case, but it's pretty common and this is only one of a myriad of ways we can reproduce the problem of filling-up / to cause major headaches. I've never heard of such a thing happening to a real FreeBSD system in the past decade or more. The closest match to the issue results in a failure of adduser(8) or pw(8) to add new users, but existing users continued to work fine. These are edge cases that _do_ happen - Linux (heaven forbid!) is reknown for the all /, and I've been unable to boot properly into it with a full disk. I had to use a live disk to rescue it which took hours thanks to the $%^! lvm filesystem. Its just so easy to run a multi partition as opposed to an all /. And how much does it cost/hurt to do it (especially given the inordinately large hdd's these days)? Next to nix (pardon the pun :) ). The reduction in problems for new users should be an incentive as well. As for how quickly a disk can fill - I'm an expert :) I can fill a terabyte disk in a matter of hours with video and not notice. The transfers can be tricky to coordinate seeing as the disk fills faster than I can move the large files to another filesystem. And I haven't even mentioned some of the games that I'm sure a novice desktop user will use... You don't have to necessarily 'hose' the system to render it unusable. Just have some obscure program or service that requires something like a temp file or the like to stop it from working, and make it difficult to find whats wrong. I forgot to mention that the probable reason you haven't heard of any such problems on real FreeBSD _is_ because it doesn't use the all /, or a qualified sysadmin is watching over it. +1 And as ideal as it is to sit and hypothesize how great things might be in the Desktop world if Desktop users are given the chance to use one big / partition, I'm just terribly afraid (as you likewise point out) that the decision to make this the default was short-sighted to say the least. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Robison, Dave wrote: On 02/17/2012 15:55, Chuck Swiger wrote: Yes. It works as intended even when /tmp is part of a single root partition; although mounting /tmp as a RAM- or swap-based tmpfs filesystem might be better for many situations. Sure it has its uses, but now you're jumping into new territory where the installer has to either ask the user to create tmpfs or make the decision to do it on its own. That's right. I don't advocate using tmpfs for /tmp under all circumstances, but it is a reasonable choice for some situations, and it would be nice if FreeBSD-9's shiny new installer provided am option to set that up. As has been stated, this is fine if sufficient RAM is available. Personally I don't like using RAM for tmp. OK. Making this world-writable bucket part of / seems silly both for Desktops and Servers alike. You're welcome to your opinion. However, I suspect you're expecting FreeBSD systems to always be partitioned and administered by knowledgeable BSD Unix sysadmins, and those are not always so readily available as one might assume. I'm not sure why someone has to be knowledgeable to select a particular partitioning scheme. Um, because a novice user just going with the default partitioning scheme (whatever that might be) or guessing random values isn't likely to achieve better results than someone knowledgeable making an informed decision about how to partition a disk? Is it better for a novice to have one big / to fill up as opposed to a separate /var or /tmp? That doesn't have a single, simple answer. It may be better to have a single root partition, for which they can notice and understand their disk usage by a single value, compared to having them need to understand df and multiple filesystems mounted as a tree, rather than separate devices (aka Windows disk letters). :-( b. A nuisance As Da Rock points out, ... recovering your system from a file-system-full-event when using single-/ is just as difficult regardless of Desktop versus Server. Having /tmp alleviates the difficulty. It would if /tmp was mounted on a disk partition, and if it also happened to be where space was being consumed. /var/log and /home tend to be more likely locations in my experience, but YMMV. Actually, in my experience I have huge problems with users misusing /tmp as a holding spot for all manner of files. I like keeping /tmp separate and smallish to discourage its use for everyday transfers. Those things belong in a users home directory, not in /tmp. It sounds like these users want some kind of shared folder with relatively open permissions, and I've seen plenty of small office / collaborative environments where such a thing would be of value. However, for whatever reasons, the overwhelming majority of folks using MacOS X don't have problems using a single root partition, and while they sometimes do fill up their disks, that's a situation which they should be able to recover from without needing expert assistance. I don't recall having unusual issues in running a partition out of space under FreeBSD, either, or difficulty fixing things afterwards-- but such doesn't happen very often if you monitor your systems properly, and have time to respond to low-space conditions before they turn into out of space conditions. Previously you said that knowledgeable unix admins aren't as common as might be thought... now you're making the assumption that these same novice users will monitor their systems properly for low-space conditions. Oh, no-- I don't assume that most users will notice and fix a low-space condition beforehand-- I was speaking of what I do, although it hopefully also describes other managed environments. It doesn't describe what end-user support folks [1] generally have to deal with. However this is all superfluous conversation if the installer gives each user a variety of options. You can select your one big partition scheme or go with multiple partitions depending on your preference, and from what I've read so far, this seems to be not only a reasonable idea, but also one which many people would prefer. Having the FreeBSD installer provide a reasonable set of options which include the traditional FreeBSD partition layout and a single root partition would likely be better than the current state. Regards, -- -Chuck [1] Apple Retail calls them geniuses ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Chris Hill ch...@monochrome.org wrote: Why not add a selection to the installer, something like this: Partition scheme [ ] all in one + swap Create one partition containing all subtrees plus one swap partition. [ ] separate partitioning + swap Create /, /var, /tmp and /usr (including home) partitions plus one swap partition. [ ] user-defined Make your own partitioning selection manually. Of course, the default SIZES for second choice should be reasonable. I like it. This, or something very similar, seems to me like the best way to go. I am not a professional sysadmin, but have been using FreeBSD since 2.2.6. FWIW, I prefer the multi-partition approach for all the reasons already mentioned. I used to...I found it tended to result in more administration load later, though, because the automated installer's (or my own!) guesses for partition size are rarely entirely adequate. Then you end up slapping in another disk, backing up and repartitioning, or maintaining a symlink farm... The default 512 MB root partition was always a particular pain point. It's completely inadequate if you ever try to build a custom kernel and want the option of falling back to the old one. It makes distribution upgrades nearly impossible. Nowadays I tend to either use one big root or just root and home for desktops. (having a separate home directory *is* nice for upgrades, sometimes, but again you gotta guess right...) For servers I will additionally split off /var, to limit the damage if logging runs amok. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On 02/18/12 11:17, David Brodbeck wrote: On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Chris Hillch...@monochrome.org wrote: Why not add a selection to the installer, something like this: Partition scheme [ ] all in one + swap Create one partition containing all subtrees plus one swap partition. [ ] separate partitioning + swap Create /, /var, /tmp and /usr (including home) partitions plus one swap partition. [ ] user-defined Make your own partitioning selection manually. Of course, the default SIZES for second choice should be reasonable. I like it. This, or something very similar, seems to me like the best way to go. I am not a professional sysadmin, but have been using FreeBSD since 2.2.6. FWIW, I prefer the multi-partition approach for all the reasons already mentioned. I used to...I found it tended to result in more administration load later, though, because the automated installer's (or my own!) guesses for partition size are rarely entirely adequate. Then you end up slapping in another disk, backing up and repartitioning, or maintaining a symlink farm... The default 512 MB root partition was always a particular pain point. It's completely inadequate if you ever try to build a custom kernel and want the option of falling back to the old one. It makes distribution upgrades nearly impossible. This has been fixed for some time now. The default for / (specifically to fit 2 kernels and some) is now 1G. /var is now 4G. Nowadays I tend to either use one big root or just root and home for desktops. (having a separate home directory *is* nice for upgrades, sometimes, but again you gotta guess right...) For servers I will additionally split off /var, to limit the damage if logging runs amok. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Adobe Linux Flash (Success)
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 07:48:31PM -0500, sean wrote: On 02/17/12 19:27, sean wrote: Now when I run nspluginwrapper -v -a -i as a user I get the following, Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/browser_plugins Auto-install plugins from /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Looking for plugins in /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin Install plugin /usr/local/lib/npapi/linux-f10-flashplugin/libflashplayer.so ... already installed system-wide, skipping Auto-install plugins from /home/sean/.mozilla/plugins Looking for plugins in /home/sean/.mozilla/plugins I noticed in the above information that it was looking for the flash plugin in the plugins directory under .mozilla. There was no such directory. I created the directory and ran nspluginwrapper again and flash is now listed and working. It seems to flicker on occasions a bit but it is running. Are there any tuning options that might be available to get rid of the occasional flicker? Thanks all, Sean Glad you got it working. Maybe the Handbook needs correcting/expanding. I don't get the flicker that you speak of but on occasion Firefox can peg back a core 100% constantly and I have to restart the browser. I think this is probably flash related but I haven't investigated it. So keep an eye on top output. I'd recommend www/xpi-flashblock. You can whitelist sites such as Youtube and the bbc whilst blocking the crappy flash adverts that are a feature of too many sites on the web. Especially useful if you're on a narrowband connection or metered. Regards, -- Frank Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html pgpi5vWqIBqYB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: One or Four?
On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Robison, Dave wrote: We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. I only run servers and set them up with /, /usr, and swap. Other partitions are placed on other disks with typically one partition per disk. I link /var and /tmp into /usr. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Maildir Format
Can anyone suggest a MUA which has support for Maildir that I can use? Pine is dead, replaced by alpine. The FreeBSD port has a config option to support maildirs. I've used it, it works. R's, John ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
Hi, On Saturday 18 February 2012 05:05:23 Robison, Dave wrote: It has always been FreeBSD's default to create four partitions and swap as such: / /tmp /var /usr swap it really makes sense to keep it this way. The recent changes in 9.x with bsdinstall use a default behavior which creates only one partition and swap, with everything living under a single / partition as such: / swap Can you offer an option for beginners to get this schema installed? I have had bad experiences with Windows running all on a single partition including swap. FreeBSD always reboots no matter how screwed the /usr file system got. It does not matter if it is just full or damages for some other reason. At the least the machine is up and running and it is possible to fix the damaged partition. How should it be possible to mount root as read only if root contains /usr? I think that there are many more reasons why at least / has to stay separated from /usr. Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. When will the result be published? Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
/usr/home vs /home (was: Re: One or Four?)
--As of February 17, 2012 11:46:23 PM +0100, Polytropon is alleged to have said: Well, to be honest, I never liked the old style default with /home being part of /usr. As I mentioned before, _my_ default style for separated partitions include: / swap /tmp /var /usr /home In special cases, add /opt or /scratch as separate partitions with intendedly limited sizes. You can see that all user data is kept independently from the rest of the system. It can easily be switched over to a separate home disk if needed. --As for the rest, it is mine. I'm in agreement with you on that I like to have /home be a separate partition, and not under /usr. (Of course, my current zfs system has 40 partitions...) Partly though I recognize that I like it because that's what I'm used to, and how I learned to set it up originally. (My first unix experience was with OpenBSD, over 10 years ago now.) I've never seen anything listing the main reasons for having /home under /usr though. I figure there must be a decent reason why. Would anyone care to enlighten me? What are the perceived advantages? (Particularly if you then make a symlink to /home.) Just a question that's been bugging me, as I read through different FreeBSD docs. Daniel T. Staal --- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: /usr/home vs /home
On 02/18/12 12:16, Daniel Staal wrote: --As of February 17, 2012 11:46:23 PM +0100, Polytropon is alleged to have said: Well, to be honest, I never liked the old style default with /home being part of /usr. As I mentioned before, _my_ default style for separated partitions include: / swap /tmp /var /usr /home In special cases, add /opt or /scratch as separate partitions with intendedly limited sizes. You can see that all user data is kept independently from the rest of the system. It can easily be switched over to a separate home disk if needed. --As for the rest, it is mine. I'm in agreement with you on that I like to have /home be a separate partition, and not under /usr. (Of course, my current zfs system has 40 partitions...) Partly though I recognize that I like it because that's what I'm used to, and how I learned to set it up originally. (My first unix experience was with OpenBSD, over 10 years ago now.) I've never seen anything listing the main reasons for having /home under /usr though. I figure there must be a decent reason why. Would anyone care to enlighten me? What are the perceived advantages? (Particularly if you then make a symlink to /home.) I always thought /usr was like user partition :) But seriously, for the pedantic yes, but for a desktop user (at least) having home on /usr partition makes sense - balances space and functionality; plus a lack of nodes on the disk for partitions? Limit was 8 I think. But now with /usr/home if you want to install from ports it can take a few gig, but that can be wasted because you're not always installing from ports, so might as well share space with the home directories and balance that way. Otherwise you'd need 30G (about) for /usr/ports and all the stuff you want to install and then that cannot be used at all for /home which could be cleared quite easily to make room if necessary if it was on the same partition. All is possible, but not all is necessary or recommended. If I seem a little 'spacy' I have kids hurrying me to make their lunch... ;) Just a question that's been bugging me, as I read through different FreeBSD docs. Daniel T. Staal --- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
2012-02-17 23:46, Polytropon skrev: Four? There should be five! :-) Read on to find out why. On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:05:23 -0800, Robison, Dave wrote: We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. In my case, preference depends on use. When I'm unable to predict how partition occupation will develop, going with one / partition is a good approach. It can also be useful for cases like home desktops. Other cases, like dedicated servers or systems that use more than one physical disk (e. g. one system disk, one home disk) the approach of using more than one partition is welcome. I'd like to mention that using different partitions for a logical separation of mechanisms and functionalities can be a _big_ help in worst case (which you'll hopefully never will encounter, but be prepared). For example, if you have file system trouble with the /home partition, you can bring the system up in a limited state (SUM), make the partition ro and get the data. You can then boot the system into the normal state (MUM) with using the copy you made, leaving the original /home partition unmounted and untouched. In case of data recovery and forensic analysis this can be your chance to get your data back. We realize that one can use bsdinstall to create as many partitions as one wants. However, the new default is for one partition and swap. We want to know if people would prefer the older style default with four partitions and swap when selecting Guided Partitioning and Use Entire Disk. Well, to be honest, I never liked the old style default with /home being part of /usr. As I mentioned before, _my_ default style for separated partitions include: / swap /tmp /var /usr /home In special cases, add /opt or /scratch as separate partitions with intendedly limited sizes. You can see that all user data is kept independently from the rest of the system. It can easily be switched over to a separate home disk if needed. What's the reason for this? Limited partitions are often considered a problem, but they can be a system's life saver. Just imagine you have all functional parts of the system in one big / tree, let's also say /tmp is writable for users (and it's not a memory file system); now a maliciously acting user or program could fill /tmp with lots of data, occupying the full disk. Soon, /var/log cannot be written anymore, and also other processes that need to write something may get into trouble. If /tmp is a separate partition, only /tmp can get out of disk space, with /var being fully untouched. Also keep in mind that some tools like to operate on partition level, such as dump (and restore). System tools like quota can also be used on a partition level. As I mentioned before, being able to mount a partition read-only can be helpful sometimes, same goes for other mount options, such as noexec or noatime. When dealing with this low level stuff is neccessary (e. g. on embedded systems or systems that are low on resources where you need to squeeze every bit of performance by fine tuning), having individual partitions can be a big help. Let the majority decide which layout is preferred for the default. Why not add a selection to the installer, something like this: Partition scheme [ ] all in one + swap Create one partition containing all subtrees plus one swap partition. [ ] separate partitioning + swap Create /, /var, /tmp and /usr (including home) partitions plus one swap partition. [ ] user-defined Make your own partitioning selection manually. Of course, the default SIZES for second choice should be reasonable. This suggestion gets my wote /L ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: /usr/home vs /home (was: Re: One or Four?)
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Daniel Staal wrote: --As of February 17, 2012 11:46:23 PM +0100, Polytropon is alleged to have said: Well, to be honest, I never liked the old style default with /home being part of /usr. As I mentioned before, _my_ default style for separated partitions include: / swap /tmp /var /usr /home In special cases, add /opt or /scratch as separate partitions with intendedly limited sizes. You can see that all user data is kept independently from the rest of the system. It can easily be switched over to a separate home disk if needed. --As for the rest, it is mine. I'm in agreement with you on that I like to have /home be a separate partition, and not under /usr. It seems to me that partition and mount point are being confused to a degree. There is no reason what is mounted at /usr/home cannot be a separate partition as well as if it were mounted at root. There are some good reasons for the user directories (and perhaps some other data) to be on a separate partition - mostly the reasons relate to ease of back up and migration whether planned or emergency. Arguments about where to mount that partition are not so practical, being more in the philosophic and historical realm. Pick one, recognize not everyone will be on the same page and put appropriate links in. (Of course, my current zfs system has 40 partitions...) Partly though I recognize that I like it because that's what I'm used to, and how I learned to set it up originally. (My first unix experience was with OpenBSD, over 10 years ago now.) I've never seen anything listing the main reasons for having /home under /usr though. I figure there must be a decent reason why. Would anyone care to enlighten me? What are the perceived advantages? (Particularly if you then make a symlink to /home.) There may have been a historic reason, but now it is philosophical - trying to keep the system and userland distinction clear. But there are many flaws in the attempted separation. /var for example is the default location for many logs, both system and user, the spools (remember news?), and databases. You really cannot drop /usr into a different system and have an operational result. (I put the home directories, the www directory, databases and spools all on the same physical partition which I mount arbitrarily at /usr/local/data. It isn't exactly plug-n-play, but in tests and emergencies is has proved practical to drop the partition into several linices with a high level of functionally - depending on application versioning being close to in sync.) -- Lars Eighner http://www.larseighner.com/index.html 8800 N IH35 APT 1191 AUSTIN TX 78753-5266 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Fri Feb 17 16:20:48 2012 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:05:23 -0800 From: Robison, Dave david.robi...@fisglobal.com To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: One or Four? Hiya, A question has arisen with the implementation of bsdinstall in 9.x as opposed to sysinstall in 8.x and previous versions of FreeBSD. It has always been FreeBSD's default to create four partitions and swap as such: / /tmp /var /usr swap The recent changes in 9.x with bsdinstall use a default behavior which creates only one partition and swap, with everything living under a single / partition as such: / swap Blame the Linux community for fostering _that_ silliness. wry grin We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. *I* would stronngly prefer _five_ partitions plus swap; / /tmp /var /usr /home swap There are good arguments to be made for keeping the '/' filesystem as small as practical, _and_ restricting it to 'system' content -- preferably all non-volatile such that it (as well as '/usr') can be mounted read-only. The above-mentioned RO mounting does wonders for system reliability and speed of crash recovery. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Adobe Linux Flash
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Fri Feb 17 16:25:49 2012 From: sean tech.j...@myfairpoint.net Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:20:26 -0500 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adobe Linux Flash On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:33 PM, Da Rock wrote: Problem, I think lies, in the symlink. You don't need it, kill it and run nspluginwrapper - the only flash file in your browser plugins directory should be prefixed with npwrapper. There may be an issue with nspluginwrapper (currently being discussed - can anyone confirm if its similar?) that has to resolved. Just to check, can you run `find /usr/local/ | grep ld-linux.so` and see if it comes up? It could show ld-linux.so or the same followed by a number. Copy the result here. I deleted both symlinks and ran the find, no results returned. Try: find / -name 'ld-linux.so*' -print (including the single-quotes) If you do _NOT_ get a listing from that, you didn't just delete the symlink, you wiped out the actual shared library, and will have to re-install it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: swap space
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Fri Feb 17 17:59:50 2012 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:54:18 -0800 From: Jim Pazarena fqu...@paz.bz To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: swap space is there a command which can show the size of the hard drive swap? A df seems to avoid the swap area. That *is* expected behavior. 'df' shows utilization of -filesystems-. 'swap' is not filesystem. This would be on a live production server. The traditional means is 'pstat -s'. On relatively modern systems, 'swapinfo' is an alias. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Fri Feb 17 19:56:00 2012 From: Doug Hardie bc...@lafn.org Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:50:44 -0800 To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One or Four? On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Robison, Dave wrote: We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. I only run servers and set them up with /, /usr, and swap. Other partitions are placed on other disks with typically one partition per disk. I link /var and /tmp into /usr. That last is a *BAD*IDEA*(tm). There _are_ programs that assume that /var/tmp and /usr/tme are *different* places -- and will attempt to create 'distinct' files _with_the_same_name_ in the two diretories. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: One or Four?
On 17 February 2012, at 23:21, Robert Bonomi wrote: From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Fri Feb 17 19:56:00 2012 From: Doug Hardie bc...@lafn.org Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:50:44 -0800 To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One or Four? On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Robison, Dave wrote: We'd like a show of hands to see if folks prefer the old style default with 4 partitions and swap, or the newer iteration with 1 partition and swap. I only run servers and set them up with /, /usr, and swap. Other partitions are placed on other disks with typically one partition per disk. I link /var and /tmp into /usr. That last is a *BAD*IDEA*(tm). There _are_ programs that assume that /var/tmp and /usr/tme are *different* places -- and will attempt to create 'distinct' files _with_the_same_name_ in the two diretories. I am sure you can find programs that presume anything you want. I have never seen one that does that. If I did find one, it would be easy to correct that misguided thinking. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
