Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[Chad Perrin]

On Sun, Apr 08, 2012 at 10:16:49AM -0700, Devin Teske wrote:
> On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:40 AM, Tony wrote:
> >
> > http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/
> 
> It's like a punch-line almost.
> 
> I admit to enjoying the "Helvetica Trailer" video linked-to above.
> 
> I even admit to liking the proposed motto's.
> 
> But I disagree with any sentiment that designcouncil.org.uk embodies
> the same clean lines and well-thought-out design that is being
> encouraged here. Most egregious is the mishmash of serif with
> sans-serif and misaligned content areas.

I thought maybe you were just being snarky here, but then I took a look
at the site.

I actually had a minimal "education" in design, once upon a time, and the
first thing I think when I see the Design Council site is "Was that thing
designed by children?"  It is nothing like what Tony suggests would be a
good approach to the design of the FreeBSD site, which is actually a good
recommendation for the design he suggests for the FreeBSD site.

Gawd, it's comically bad for something called the "Design Council",
unless you take the name as an ironic reference to the idea that design
by committee is a horrible idea.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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Re: FreeBSD losing market share?

[Polytropon]

Tony, I'm always fascinated how people consider market share the
purpose of everyone and everything. FreeBSD is not a profit-oriented
company (it's not even a company in this regards), and you can
hardly _measure_ its market share. Hell, you can't even measure
its _usage share_! Unlike corporations with a certain income model
where unit sales can be counted, you cannot count them for FreeBSD
as anyone can download and install as many copies of it as he
likes. Due to the licensing model, derived works that are turned
into a closed-source project can even be attributed to a different
company (e. g. a FreeBSD-derived OS that is installed into an
embedded system acting as a firewall will sales_units++; for that
company, not for FreeBSD). You have _no_, I repeat >>>NO<<< means
to determine how many FreeBSD systems are currently up and running.
That would be usage share. Market share is a measuring model that
you can't even apply to FreeBSD in my opinion.



On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 15:22:47 +0200, Tony wrote:
> Imagine how FreeBSD's market share and popularity would skyrocket once
> regular people gets access to it.

FreeBSD has no "market share", if you apply the term correctly,
as it is not part of "the market".



> Low-cost hosting definitely is the way of
> the future.

I'm not sure it is. Even by the means of "cloud computing" prices
are still rising (due to energy costs increasing), and only efficiency
is a way to chance this trend. Sadly, requirements to not follow this
approach, which makes things becoming more expensive in the future.
"Unlimited data" is also a thing that, in my opinion, will disappear
in the future. Lean and fast applications will have a renaissance.



> Just look at how well low-cost
> airlinesare
> doing.

Are _currently_ doing, but they will sooner or later be out of fuel.
Fuel is becoming more expensive as the available amount is limited.
If you consider such things "on the long run", you will surely have
to admit that a short-time strategy ("being cheap right now") does
not pay.




-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[Polytropon]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 14:40:12 +0200, Tony wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate
> identity.

What's wrong with it? It's very accessible (especially for
blind users) and it presents the availabe information in a
structured way. Sure, it does not use many of today's "modern"
extensions to get simple things done, as it uses _simple_ things
to get them done (e. g. a href= for a link istead of "Flash"),
but that's not a problem in my opinion. The pages load fast,
they display well in all four major browsers (Firefox, Chrome,
Safari, Opera), and it even renders properly in browsers with
limited abilities (lynx, links, w3m, dillo).

Your next point: Corporate identity. I sadly fail to see where
FreeBSD can be seen as a corporation. It's rather a community,
having some core installations, but it's not a company that has
to maintain a specific "design" across all its products. However,
FreeBSD's projects are consistent regarding naming and logos.



> Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a
> design that reflects this.

In your opinion, what would you consider a good example to
imitiate, or at least to consider as a source of inspiration?
I don't say design couldn't be improved - but what are _your_
opinions in how it should be done? Can you be more specific?



> A design that is so neutral and stripped of any
> unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to
> the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look
> at over and over without getting annoyed.

Hmmm... I always thought exactly that is what the "landing page"
of the FreeBSD project already is. You're describing the status
quo.



> The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more
> forced than well thought out.

That may be due to the reason that those are different project
which are somewhat independent. The home page is a different
thing than the documentation (different maintainers, different
projects), and the wiki, as well as other sources, are "associated
projects" not governed by the the "core team" of the FreeBSD
project.



> First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike
> logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) [...]

Despite you say the opposite, it's not. :-)



> [...] that might look cool
> the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like "what the
> hell *is* that thing anyway"?

It's a logo, nothing more, nothing less. There are many logos
in the corporate world that raise the question of "What _is_
this?!", and even in some cases, it cannot be answered because
it's _nothing_ (except a graphical exercise).

See the logo in that way, and see the mascot. Both of them are
not satanic. They have horns, the mascot has a tail. A bull
also has horns and a tail. Is it satanic therefore? Would you
refuse to eat a steak because it might be satanic as well?



> (ref: Tres
> Logos
> )

This reference cannot be reviewed for free, so I sadly have to
discard it. If you could be more specific on the FreeBSD case,
please _be_ more specific.



> Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails
> miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual
> education in design .

No, the design caters the _content_. That is the purpose of
design aiming at the designated target audience.



> There is no natural
> flow  and the whole thing just
> comes off as corny  -
> and this makes us all look bad. I also hear
> PostgreSQLis planning to sue FreeBSD for
> stealing its design.

Let's watch the result of the lawsuit then. :-)


> I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on
> Helvetica.

I don't think you can consider a font being the center of a
web design. What if that font isn't even installed? What if
a blind user accesses the page? Even though I like the
Helvetica font, I believe it's not enough, and even not
possible to "design around" a font.

Or am I misunderstanding your intention?



> No devil logo, [...]

There already is no devil logo.



> [...] no bells and whistles, [...]

Fully agreed, and already present.



> "Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when
> there's nothing left to take away."

Very good.





-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[Edward M]

On 04/08/2012 05:40 AM, Tony wrote:

Hello!

As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate
identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a
design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any
unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to
the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look
at over and over without getting annoyed.

The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more
forced than well thought out. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike
logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) that might look cool
the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like "what the
hell *is* that thing anyway"? (ref: Tres
Logos
)

Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails
miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual
education in design. There is no natural
flow  and the whole thing just
comes off as corny  -
and this makes us all look bad. I also hear
PostgreSQLis planning to sue FreeBSD for
stealing its design.

I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on
Helvetica.
No devil logo, no bells and whistles, just straight forward "FreeBSD" - the
world's best operating system. So simple that hardly anything it will go
out of fashion and need to be replaced, so simple that it'll remain as
current now as it will be a hundred years from now.

"Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when
there's nothing left to take away."

Tony
http://siegelgale.com/
http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/
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  Now your are starting to sound like a troll. get lost
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Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[RW]

On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 01:25:54 +0200
Mikkel Bang wrote:

> Den 23:44 8. april 2012 skrev RW 
> følgende:
> 
> >
> > The FreeBSD site isn't great, but this site is worse.
> >
> > Has no-one ever pointed-out the irony that the top 20% of the page
> > bangs-on about simplifying, and has a "fight bloat on your website"
> > link, but the other 80% is a cluttered mess.
> >
> > It also has a pet hate of mine: menus that make the rest of the page
> > move around even when the pointer is just passing-over them. I can
> > forgive the FreeBSD site all its faults for not doing that.
> >
> 
> I understand you're trying to stand up for FreeBSD, 

You understand wrongly. I don't really care about the FreeBSD site. I
genuinely think that Siegel+Gale have a substandard website. Take a
look at the Royal Academy  and Design Council sites he linked - it's not
in the same league.

> but what you're
> saying makes little sense. Siegel+Gale is one of the world's most
> respected design agencies. And like, who are you? 

So what are you saying?

- I'm automatically wrong (irrespective of the facts) because they're
  respected design agency and I'm a nobody
- You didn't understand what I wrote. 
- you disagree with a specific point that you're not bothering to
  mention

>Haters gonna hate.

I'm not a hater. I'm at most a mocker. In particular I find it amusing
that their own website fails to follow the vision that they advocate for
other peoples.
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Re: FreeBSD losing market share?

[Jerry McAllister]

On Sun, Apr 08, 2012 at 09:37:15AM -0500, Jay West wrote:

> Tony wrote...
> ---
> I'm a bit alarmed by the fact that none of the major low-cost Xen VPS-based
> hosting providers in the modern web development
> scene (Rackspace,
> Linode, SliceHost, Webbynode etc.) offer FreeBSD hosting. Sure there are
> some that offer dedicated servers like M5 Hosting, RootBSD, Pair etc. but
> those are hard to find and ridiculously expensive.
> 
> Why doesn't FreeBSD support Xen?
> ---
> 
> One could also ask why Xen doesn't support FreeBSD ;)
> 
> I've been a loyal FreeBSD zealot for decades and I still am. However, I have
> to admit, there are two severe shortcomings - not all entirely freebsd's
> fault - that keep it out of Xen hosting (and some other high end)
> environments. The answer is:
> 
> 1) No true clustered filesystem (GFS for one example). Takes it out of the
> running completely for those environments. Hast is a wonderful step in the
> right direction, but really not the answer.
> 2) Xen - Xen-Tools have not been supported on FreeBSD to this day. Without
> it, there's little sense in running FreeBSD in a commercial hosting
> environment under XenServer. No live migration, and half the other nice
> features aren't available.
> 
> If Xen-tools was supported in FreeBSD, I'm sure you'd see it popping up as a
> guest in XenServer hosting providers.


Well, guess you and Tony have some work to do then.
I expect it will be more than a weekend project for you.

jerry


> 
> J
> 
> 
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Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[Da Rock]

On 04/09/12 07:44, RW wrote:

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 14:40:12 +0200
Tony wrote:


Tony
http://siegelgale.com/

The FreeBSD site isn't great, but this site is worse.

Has no-one ever pointed-out the irony that the top 20% of the page
bangs-on about simplifying, and has a "fight bloat on your website"
link, but the other 80% is a cluttered mess.

It also has a pet hate of mine: menus that make the rest of the page
move around even when the pointer is just passing-over them. I can
forgive the FreeBSD site all its faults for not doing that.

The FreeBSD site is accessible (as is legal required) and to the point. 
That is what matters.


It provides all the information needed and communicates it exceedingly 
well. FreeBSD is a no nonsense get the job done without bloat OS: the 
site communicates that as well, and communication is not just about the 
words.


My 2c.
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Re: Upgrade to 9.0 - Mount to root failed..

[Da Rock]

On 04/09/12 02:17, Joshua Isom wrote:

On 4/8/2012 8:51 AM, Airosoβicz fb. wrote:

Hi Matthew,

Thanx for the quick reply.. Can't get it to work though..

On 08/04/2012 09:53, Airosoβicz fb. wrote:
So I've upgraded from 8.1 to 9.0&  now the system can't mount in 
single

user mode to go through the final step of installing the world..






As was mentioned else-thread, you are probably hitting problems due to
the name change from ad(4) to ada(4) for PATA/SATA disk devices.



It's starting to make sense now.. Mounting ufs:/dev/ad*a*2s1a i.o. from
ufs:/dev/ad2s1a simply doesn't work because as I've put in my original
post with # ls -l /dev/ad* it doesn't exist.. Only ad2,ad2s1&  ad2s1a 
do..




One way to fix this is simply to type in the new boot device in the
loader and then edit /etc/fstab from single user mode



  Which boot device..? I wish it was simple..



When you get to the loader, escape to the loader prompt.  Then type 
lsdev to see what the loader finds.  You'll have to find which one 
looks right, and type that into the mount failed prompt.  After it's 
done booting, check /dev to make sure it looks right and change your 
fstab.


From a theoretical point of view (I'll have to consider this for my own 
needs in the near future) I'd say the labeling option mentioned by 
Warren would be better for the long term. It may seem a little 
complicated to setup but it will work just about anywhere.


If you continue with devices as you are at the moment you run the risk 
of having this trouble every time something changes.


My 2c.
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Re: Token Ring (really)

[Nikos Vassiliadis]

On 4/8/2012 4:41 PM, Jay West wrote:

Adam wrote...

Otherwise, it's time to abandon steamships for airplanes.  Sounds like you
have a primed business opportunity just waiting to be exploited.

---
Actually, this is for a historical re-creation project. Airplanes would be
entirely inappropriate for a historical display, so steamships it is. Last I
checked, there was no primed business opportunity in doing something for
non-profits (museums, etc.) :)

I guess I'll have to see how tough it would be to yank the TR code from 7x
and get it running under 9x. Probably above my skillset, but I'll have a
looksee.

J



Hi,

You could try finding an "ethernet to token ring" translating bridge,
though I am not aware of the budget will need - or if you'll find one
anyways.

Just a thought,

Nikos
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Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[RW]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 14:40:12 +0200
Tony wrote:

> Tony
> http://siegelgale.com/ 

The FreeBSD site isn't great, but this site is worse.

Has no-one ever pointed-out the irony that the top 20% of the page
bangs-on about simplifying, and has a "fight bloat on your website"
link, but the other 80% is a cluttered mess. 

It also has a pet hate of mine: menus that make the rest of the page
move around even when the pointer is just passing-over them. I can
forgive the FreeBSD site all its faults for not doing that.

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Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[Devin Teske]

On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:40 AM, Tony wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> As much as I love FreeBSD,

[snip]

> I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on
> Helvetica.

[snip]

> Tony

[snip]

> http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/

It's like a punch-line almost.

I admit to enjoying the "Helvetica Trailer" video linked-to above.

I even admit to liking the proposed motto's.

But I disagree with any sentiment that designcouncil.org.uk embodies the same 
clean lines and well-thought-out design that is being encouraged here. Most 
egregious is the mishmash of serif with sans-serif and misaligned content areas.
-- 
Devin

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Re: ghostscript message when running ps2pdf

[Antonio Olivares]

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:06 AM, Robert Huff  wrote:
>
> Antonio Olivares writes:
>
>>  Has anyone seen the following message:
>>
>>  GPL Ghostscript 9.05: Error: Font Renderer Plugin ( FreeType ) return code 
>> = -1?
>>
>>  This is the first time I see this error message when running
>>  ps2pdf on FreeBSD.  Any pointers as to how to suppress these
>>  messages when invoking ps2pdf?
>
>        I have not seen this message.  However, I note Freetype(2)
> recently had a minor version bump. Have you updated that port, and
> could this be the cause of this problem?
>

That is it.  The update in ports cures this message :)
Thanks for the information.

Regards,


Antonio
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Re: Upgrade to 9.0 - Mount to root failed..

[Joshua Isom]

On 4/8/2012 8:51 AM, Airosoβicz fb. wrote:

Hi Matthew,

Thanx for the quick reply.. Can't get it to work though..

On 08/04/2012 09:53, Airosoβicz fb. wrote:

So I've upgraded from 8.1 to 9.0&  now the system can't mount in single
user mode to go through the final step of installing the world..






As was mentioned else-thread, you are probably hitting problems due to
the name change from ad(4) to ada(4) for PATA/SATA disk devices.



It's starting to make sense now.. Mounting ufs:/dev/ad*a*2s1a i.o. from
ufs:/dev/ad2s1a simply doesn't work because as I've put in my original
post with # ls -l /dev/ad* it doesn't exist.. Only ad2,ad2s1&  ad2s1a do..



One way to fix this is simply to type in the new boot device in the
loader and then edit /etc/fstab from single user mode



  Which boot device..? I wish it was simple..



When you get to the loader, escape to the loader prompt.  Then type 
lsdev to see what the loader finds.  You'll have to find which one looks 
right, and type that into the mount failed prompt.  After it's done 
booting, check /dev to make sure it looks right and change your fstab.

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RE: Token Ring (really)

[Jay West]

Adam wrote...

Otherwise, it's time to abandon steamships for airplanes.  Sounds like you
have a primed business opportunity just waiting to be exploited.

---
Actually, this is for a historical re-creation project. Airplanes would be
entirely inappropriate for a historical display, so steamships it is. Last I
checked, there was no primed business opportunity in doing something for
non-profits (museums, etc.) :)

I guess I'll have to see how tough it would be to yank the TR code from 7x
and get it running under 9x. Probably above my skillset, but I'll have a
looksee.

J




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Re: Upgrade to 9.0 - Mount to root failed..

[Warren Block]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012, Airoso?icz fb. wrote:


It's starting to make sense now.. Mounting ufs:/dev/ad*a*2s1a i.o. from
ufs:/dev/ad2s1a simply doesn't work because as I've put in my original
post with # ls -l /dev/ad* it doesn't exist.. Only ad2,ad2s1 & ad2s1a do..


ada device numbering is relative, so the first drive found is always 
ada0.  If there are no ada devices in /dev at all, I'd guess too much 
has been removed from the custom kernel.



# man 8 tunefs: The tunefs can not be run on an active filesystem.
To change an active filesystem it must be downgraded to read only or
to unmounted.. [Which I've done with # mount -r -f..]

# tunefs: /dev/ad2s1a: failed to write superblock..

I've updated the /etc/fstab with the ROOT label but I can't get the
single-user mount nor the tunefs to work..


http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/labels.html shows a full 
example.

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RE: FreeBSD losing market share?

[Jay West]

Tony wrote...
---
I'm a bit alarmed by the fact that none of the major low-cost Xen VPS-based
hosting providers in the modern web development
scene (Rackspace,
Linode, SliceHost, Webbynode etc.) offer FreeBSD hosting. Sure there are
some that offer dedicated servers like M5 Hosting, RootBSD, Pair etc. but
those are hard to find and ridiculously expensive.

Why doesn't FreeBSD support Xen?
---

One could also ask why Xen doesn't support FreeBSD ;)

I've been a loyal FreeBSD zealot for decades and I still am. However, I have
to admit, there are two severe shortcomings - not all entirely freebsd's
fault - that keep it out of Xen hosting (and some other high end)
environments. The answer is:

1) No true clustered filesystem (GFS for one example). Takes it out of the
running completely for those environments. Hast is a wonderful step in the
right direction, but really not the answer.
2) Xen - Xen-Tools have not been supported on FreeBSD to this day. Without
it, there's little sense in running FreeBSD in a commercial hosting
environment under XenServer. No live migration, and half the other nice
features aren't available.

If Xen-tools was supported in FreeBSD, I'm sure you'd see it popping up as a
guest in XenServer hosting providers.

J


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Re: FreeBSD losing market share?

[Jerry]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 15:22:47 +0200
Tony articulated:

> Just look at how well low-cost airlines
> 

Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[Fbsd8]

Tony wrote:

Hello!

As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate
identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a
design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any
unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to
the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look
at over and over without getting annoyed.



Since you seem to know so much about web design WHY don't you create 
your version for review and maybe acceptance if the community likes it?

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Upgrade to 9.0 - Mount to root failed..

[Airosoβicz fb .]

Hi Matthew,

Thanx for the quick reply.. Can't get it to work though..

On 08/04/2012 09:53, Airosoβicz fb. wrote:
> > So I've upgraded from 8.1 to 9.0 & now the system can't mount in single
> > user mode to go through the final step of installing the world..
>


> As was mentioned else-thread, you are probably hitting problems due to
> the name change from ad(4) to ada(4) for PATA/SATA disk devices.
>

It's starting to make sense now.. Mounting ufs:/dev/ad*a*2s1a i.o. from
ufs:/dev/ad2s1a simply doesn't work because as I've put in my original
post with # ls -l /dev/ad* it doesn't exist.. Only ad2,ad2s1 & ad2s1a do..


> One way to fix this is simply to type in the new boot device in the
> loader and then edit /etc/fstab from single user mode
>

 Which boot device..? I wish it was simple..

The preferred method nowadays is to label the partitions, so probably
> tunefs(8) labelling would be the best choice to get you through
> the 8.1 -> 9.0 reboot. ie.  Create the label:
>
># tunefs -L ROOT /dev/as2s1a
>

# man 8 tunefs: The tunefs can not be run on an active filesystem.
To change an active filesystem it must be downgraded to read only or
to unmounted.. [Which I've done with # mount -r -f..]

# tunefs: /dev/ad2s1a: failed to write superblock..

I've updated the /etc/fstab with the ROOT label but I can't get the
single-user mount nor the tunefs to work..

Regards,
E.
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Re: FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[Erich Dollansky]

Hi,

not again.

Erich

On Sunday 08 April 2012 19:40:12 Tony wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate
> identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a
> design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any
> unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to
> the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look
> at over and over without getting annoyed.
> 
> The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more
> forced than well thought out. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike
> logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) that might look cool
> the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like "what the
> hell *is* that thing anyway"? (ref: Tres
> Logos
> )
> 
> Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails
> miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual
> education in design . There is no natural
> flow  and the whole thing just
> comes off as corny  -
> and this makes us all look bad. I also hear
> PostgreSQLis planning to sue FreeBSD for
> stealing its design.
> 
> I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on
> Helvetica.
> No devil logo, no bells and whistles, just straight forward "FreeBSD" - the
> world's best operating system. So simple that hardly anything it will go
> out of fashion and need to be replaced, so simple that it'll remain as
> current now as it will be a hundred years from now.
> 
> "Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when
> there's nothing left to take away."
> 
> Tony
> http://siegelgale.com/ 
> http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/
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> 
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FreeBSD's backwards webdesign / corporate identity

[Tony]

Hello!

As much as I love FreeBSD, I'm a bit alarmed by its webdesign / corporate
identity. Since FreeBSD is the world's best OS, I believe it should have a
design that reflects this. A design that is so neutral and stripped of any
unnecessary details that the user's attention is directed straight on to
the content as opposed to how the content looks. A design that you can look
at over and over without getting annoyed.

The current design is an uneven mix of various styles, and seems more
forced than well thought out. First you have the shiny Satanic 3D-lookalike
logo (yes, despite what y'all say, it's still Satanic) that might look cool
the first few times one looks at it. Now though it's more like "what the
hell *is* that thing anyway"? (ref: Tres
Logos
)

Then you have a surrounding layout trying to cater to that logo, but fails
miserably as it was made by programmers as opposed to people with an actual
education in design . There is no natural
flow  and the whole thing just
comes off as corny  -
and this makes us all look bad. I also hear
PostgreSQLis planning to sue FreeBSD for
stealing its design.

I propose a new, supersimple look for FreeBSD based on
Helvetica.
No devil logo, no bells and whistles, just straight forward "FreeBSD" - the
world's best operating system. So simple that hardly anything it will go
out of fashion and need to be replaced, so simple that it'll remain as
current now as it will be a hundred years from now.

"Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when
there's nothing left to take away."

Tony
http://siegelgale.com/ 
http://www.designcouncil.org.uk/
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ghostscript message when running ps2pdf

[Robert Huff]

Antonio Olivares writes:

>  Has anyone seen the following message:
>  
>  GPL Ghostscript 9.05: Error: Font Renderer Plugin ( FreeType ) return code = 
> -1?
>  
>  This is the first time I see this error message when running
>  ps2pdf on FreeBSD.  Any pointers as to how to suppress these
>  messages when invoking ps2pdf?

I have not seen this message.  However, I note Freetype(2)
recently had a minor version bump. Have you updated that port, and
could this be the cause of this problem?



Robert Huff

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Re: Can FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE mount Ext3 file system ?

[Xavier]

On Sun, Apr 08, 2012 at 06:32:36AM -0400, Thomas Mueller wrote:

Hi Thomas,

> from Xavier :
>
> > I have:
>
> > casa# disktype /dev/da1
>
> > --- /dev/da1
> > Character device, size 3.771 GiB (4048551936 bytes)
> > FreeBSD boot loader (i386 boot2/BTX 1.02 at sector 2)
> > BSD disklabel (at sector 1), 8 partitions
> > Partition c: 2.145 GiB (2302711808 bytes, 4497484 sectors from 0)
> >   Type 0 (Unused)
> > DOS/MBR partition map
> > Partition 1: 3.547 GiB (3808272384 bytes, 7438032 sectors from 63)
> >   Type 0x83 (Linux)
> >   Ext3 file system
> > UUID D1A7E6D6-3A34-4864-B6E8-C4DAA34AD776 (DCE, v4)
> > Last mounted at "/"
> > Volume size 3.547 GiB (3808272384 bytes, 929754 blocks of 4 KiB)
> > Partition 2: 227.5 MiB (238533120 bytes, 465885 sectors from 7438095)
> >   Type 0x05 (Extended)
> >   Partition 5: 227.5 MiB (238500864 bytes, 465822 sectors from
7438095+63)
> > Type 0x82 (Linux swap / Solaris)
> > Linux swap, version 2, subversion 1, 4 KiB pages, little-endian
> >   Swap size 227.4 MiB (238489600 bytes, 58225 pages of 4 KiB)
>
> > I'm running from FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE
>
> > I try:
>
> > casa# mount -t ext2fs /dev/da1a /mnt/JetFlash\ Transcend\ 4GB\ 1100/
> > mount: /dev/da1a : Invalid argument
>
> > How can I mount it ?
>
> I'm confused between the BSD disklabel and DOS/MBR partition map.
>
> What does (running from Linux)
>
> fdisk -lu /dev/sdb (or whatever the Linux name for that disk is) show?
  ^^

  I'll run that command line from a GNU/Linux ( not from FreeBSD ) ?


>
> How do you mount that Linux ext3fs partition in Linux?  That knowledge
might help me figure how to mount that partition from FreeBSD.

I don't probe it. /dev/da1 is a USB pen drive with GNU/Linux OS.

Well, I wait to confirm that command ...

Thanks, see you.
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Re: Can FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE mount Ext3 file system ?

[Thomas Mueller]

from Xavier :

> I have:

> casa# disktype /dev/da1

> --- /dev/da1
> Character device, size 3.771 GiB (4048551936 bytes)
> FreeBSD boot loader (i386 boot2/BTX 1.02 at sector 2)
> BSD disklabel (at sector 1), 8 partitions
> Partition c: 2.145 GiB (2302711808 bytes, 4497484 sectors from 0)
>   Type 0 (Unused)
> DOS/MBR partition map
> Partition 1: 3.547 GiB (3808272384 bytes, 7438032 sectors from 63)
>   Type 0x83 (Linux)
>   Ext3 file system
> UUID D1A7E6D6-3A34-4864-B6E8-C4DAA34AD776 (DCE, v4)
> Last mounted at "/"
> Volume size 3.547 GiB (3808272384 bytes, 929754 blocks of 4 KiB)
> Partition 2: 227.5 MiB (238533120 bytes, 465885 sectors from 7438095)
>   Type 0x05 (Extended)
>   Partition 5: 227.5 MiB (238500864 bytes, 465822 sectors from 7438095+63)
> Type 0x82 (Linux swap / Solaris)
> Linux swap, version 2, subversion 1, 4 KiB pages, little-endian
>   Swap size 227.4 MiB (238489600 bytes, 58225 pages of 4 KiB)

> I'm running from FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE

> I try:

> casa# mount -t ext2fs /dev/da1a /mnt/JetFlash\ Transcend\ 4GB\ 1100/
> mount: /dev/da1a : Invalid argument

> How can I mount it ?

I'm confused between the BSD disklabel and DOS/MBR partition map.

What does (running from Linux)

fdisk -lu /dev/sdb (or whatever the Linux name for that disk is) show?

How do you mount that Linux ext3fs partition in Linux?  That knowledge might 
help me figure how to mount that partition from FreeBSD.

I'm still not sure how or if FreeBSD supports ext3fs as opposed to ext2fs.

I don't see the rationale for setting up an extended partition when you only 
use two partitions.  The second (Linux swap) partition could be primary, and 
you would be well under the quota of four primary partitions.

Tom
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Re: Upgrade to 9.0 - Mount to root failed..

[Matthew Seaman]

On 08/04/2012 09:53, Airosoβicz fb. wrote:
> So I've upgraded from 8.1 to 9.0 & now the system can't mount in single
> user mode to go through the final step of installing the world..
> 
> # cvsup.. Done..
> # make buildworld..  Done..
> # make buildkernel.. Done..
> # make installkernel.. Done..
> # reboot in single user mode to install world.. Failed to mount to
> /dev/ad2s1a.. {Yes, that *is* my HD}
> 

As was mentioned else-thread, you are probably hitting problems due to
the name change from ad(4) to ada(4) for PATA/SATA disk devices.

One way to fix this is simply to type in the new boot device in the
loader and then edit /etc/fstab from single user mode -- which is fine,
but you'ld have to go through the same sort of rigmarole again to revert
back to 8.1 should that be necesssary.  The preferred method nowadays is
to label the partitions.  There are three options:

   glabel(8) -- generic labels for geom devices, which will appear in
 /dev/label/foo

   tunefs(8) -- specifically the -L option.  For UFS, labels will
 appear as /dev/ufs/foo

   gpart(8) -- GPT partitioning has built-in label support. Devices
 appear as /dev/gpt/foo

(Additionally partitions can be referred to by uuid for the tunefs and
gpart labelling schemes, but that's not relevant here.)  Quite why
FreeBSD needs so many different labelling schemes escapes me.

gpart(8) labelling is the default for new installs of 9.0.  However,
given you're upgrading from 8.1, then you will likely be using MBR +
bsdlabel oldstyle partitioning, so probably tunefs(8) labelling would be
the best choice to get you through the 8.1 -> 9.0 reboot.

ie.  Create the label:

# tunefs -L ROOT /dev/as2s1a

then edit /etc/fstab so the line for the root filesystem reads like so:

/dev/ufs/ROOT   /   ufs rw  0   1

Repeat this for all the other UFS filesystems you have -- a good system
is to label them according to their mountpoint (USR, VAR, HOME, LOCAL,
and so forth.)

This should work with both 8.1 and 9.0 kernels -- however, untested, so
apply appropriate levels of caution.

Cheers,

Matthew

--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey




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Re: Upgrade to 9.0 - Mount to root failed..

[krad]

On 8 April 2012 09:53, Airosoβicz fb.  wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> It's my 1st time on any of the FreeBSD lists & I'm fairly new to FreeBSD to
> please bear with me..
>
> So I've upgraded from 8.1 to 9.0 & now the system can't mount in single
> user mode to go through the final step of installing the world..
>
> # cvsup.. Done..
> # make buildworld..  Done..
> # make buildkernel.. Done..
> # make installkernel.. Done..
> # reboot in single user mode to install world.. Failed to mount to
> /dev/ad2s1a.. {Yes, that *is* my HD}
>
> I rebooted from the loader prompt with my old (GENERIC) kernel & came up
> with the following..
>
> peggy# ls -l /dev/ad*
>> crw-r-  1 root  operator    0,  79 Apr  8 08:47 /dev/ad2
>> crw-r-  1 root  operator    0,  82 Apr  8 08:47 /dev/ad2s1
>> crw-r-  1 root  operator    0,  84 Apr  8 08:47 /dev/ad2s1a
>>
>> peggy# cat /etc/fstab
>> # Device        Mountpoint    FStype    Options        Dump    Pass#
>> /dev/ad2s1a        /        ufs    rw        1    1
>> /dev/acd0        /cdrom        cd9660    ro,noauto    0    0
>>
>> peggy# disklabel /dev/ad2s1a
>> # /dev/ad2s1a:
>> 8 partitions:
>> #        size   offset    fstype   [fsize bsize bps/cpg]
>>   a: 20044017        0    4.2BSD     2048 16384 28552
>>   c: 20044017        0    unused        0     0         # "raw" part,
>> don't edit
>>
>> peggy# fsck
>> ** /dev/ad2s1a (NO WRITE)
>> ** Last Mounted on /
>> ** Root file system
>> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
>> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
>> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
>> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
>> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
>> 415735 files, 3148200 used, 1702923 free (40563 frags, 207795 blocks, 0.8%
>> fragmentation)
>>
>> peggy# kldstat
>> Id Refs Address    Size     Name
>>  1    7 0xc040 bb5504   kernel
>>  2    1 0xc2e1a000 26000    linux.ko
>>
>
> I know there's many 'mount' problem discussions out there but I can't seem
> to find out how to overcome this problem..
>
> Many thanx in advance for any assistance..
>
> Regards,
> E.
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try specifying 'ufs:/dev/adas1a' at the kernel prompt or editing that
into you fstab if you can. My devices changed and the 8-9 jump.
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Upgrade to 9.0 - Mount to root failed..

[Airosoβicz fb .]

Greetings all,

It's my 1st time on any of the FreeBSD lists & I'm fairly new to FreeBSD to
please bear with me..

So I've upgraded from 8.1 to 9.0 & now the system can't mount in single
user mode to go through the final step of installing the world..

# cvsup.. Done..
# make buildworld..  Done..
# make buildkernel.. Done..
# make installkernel.. Done..
# reboot in single user mode to install world.. Failed to mount to
/dev/ad2s1a.. {Yes, that *is* my HD}

I rebooted from the loader prompt with my old (GENERIC) kernel & came up
with the following..

peggy# ls -l /dev/ad*
> crw-r-  1 root  operator0,  79 Apr  8 08:47 /dev/ad2
> crw-r-  1 root  operator0,  82 Apr  8 08:47 /dev/ad2s1
> crw-r-  1 root  operator0,  84 Apr  8 08:47 /dev/ad2s1a
>
> peggy# cat /etc/fstab
> # DeviceMountpointFStypeOptionsDumpPass#
> /dev/ad2s1a/ufsrw11
> /dev/acd0/cdromcd9660ro,noauto00
>
> peggy# disklabel /dev/ad2s1a
> # /dev/ad2s1a:
> 8 partitions:
> #size   offsetfstype   [fsize bsize bps/cpg]
>   a: 2004401704.2BSD 2048 16384 28552
>   c: 200440170unused0 0 # "raw" part,
> don't edit
>
> peggy# fsck
> ** /dev/ad2s1a (NO WRITE)
> ** Last Mounted on /
> ** Root file system
> ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
> ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
> ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
> ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
> ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
> 415735 files, 3148200 used, 1702923 free (40563 frags, 207795 blocks, 0.8%
> fragmentation)
>
> peggy# kldstat
> Id Refs AddressSize Name
>  17 0xc040 bb5504   kernel
>  21 0xc2e1a000 26000linux.ko
>

I know there's many 'mount' problem discussions out there but I can't seem
to find out how to overcome this problem..

Many thanx in advance for any assistance..

Regards,
E.
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Re: Music production on FreeBSD

[Da Rock]

On 04/08/12 15:32, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 13:28:51 +1000
Da Rock  wrote:


On 04/08/12 11:39, Mario Lobo wrote:

On Saturday 07 April 2012 21:04:41 Tony wrote:

Hello!

Is anybody aware of any talented producers who produce their music
primarily on FreeBSD?

Thanks!

Tony

Man, that has been my dream for a good while!

Ardour is a fine multitrack but no MIDI, at least on FreeBSD. And
FBSD itself has lots of issues with MIDI.

Besides that, there is the driver problem with most professional
sound boards.

I am going to attempt something a quite bit out of my league which
is try to port the alsa drivers for my echo Gina3G board to FBSD.
If I can manage to do that, then I believe the rest will fall on my
lap by gravity.

I hope I don't blow up my desktop.

I'm eager to read the replies to the OP.


I have. Or more accurately my wife and co have, with me behind the
wheel. My wife is a musician and music teacher, and we only use
FreeBSD, so its a given here (and a massive drive for me to find a
way to support it).

We used simple tools: audacity, rosegarden, and hydrogen. We used a
usb yamaha sound board, and a ribbon mic for the vocals.

The biggest problem here is that rosegarden refuses to use jack for
midi transport now, so even though there is a jack_umidi daemon in
the ports it still wont pick it up. I'll have to look at another app
like ardour and see if it is better there. Other than that, all good.

Incidentally, the reason for the emphasis on rosegarden is that it
does midi and audio multitrack; as well as notation editing.
Apparently they're hell bent on only using alsa (God only knows why -
must have a death wish or something...), with marginal support for
jack. Hence they only support midi through alsa, not jack. Madness...

Yes, Rosegarden is a very nice app; it's just too bad we can't get true
MIDI working with it under FreeBSD.  As an amateur (frustrated?)
composer, I *really* like the notation editing.
I don't know about not having true midi, midi seems fine its just the 
software is (for some inexplicable reason) not supporting OSS anymore 
and chasing the horrid monster that is alsa.


Even jack supports the freebsd midi using the daemon, but the software 
doesn't suport jack midi. Like I said: madness...


For several months now, I've been unable to use Rosegarden at all
(under 10-CURRENT).  It crashes very early on startup.  Haven't been
able to track this one down yet.

Gosh, how I miss my early days with FreeBSD and my Soundblaster AWE64
with the special MIDI apps for it in the ports collection (back in the
good ol' days when OSS was our soundsystem).


The usb audio was a good call; the uaudio driver worked well in our
case with jack, and given all work was done on a laptop it made
sense. These days I think it makes more sense because of the
portability, not to mention if the power happens to go off in the
midst of a take you can keep going and finish the track ;)

The only other option that would be ideal would be firewire audio -
if that ever comes to FBSD. I think there may be some support through
jack, but I haven't investigated that fully yet.

And dont forget lilypond for notation... :)

I wish driver coding and such were more my area of expertise; I'd
gladly lend a hand to any efforts to improve our MIDI support.
Unfortunately, every time I've tried looking at any of the actual code
for the sound subsystem, it's left me in a veritable mystified
stupor.  :-)

And lately, even some of the timidity++ stuff isn't working right.  The
Xaw interface refuses to build/install properly, ever since the removal
of X11BASE from the ports infrastructure.

This is really my single, my one-and-only gripe with FreeBSD: MIDI!
Used to have a nice setup that was working beautifully, pretty much
comparable to what you might find under Windows or Mac.  But the whole
thing got yanked out and replaced with the newpcm stuff back in -- what
year was it? -- sometime in the late 90s.  Most unfortunate.  I and a
number of others protested at the time, that we were having
functionality ripped out with no viable replacement in sight, and
sadly, that's still pretty much the case.  MIDI support in FreeBSD has
never been the same since.  :-(

The replacement is there now, but everything else has moved on.


Oh well, I'll shut up now.  Hate to come off as a whiner or
something.  :-)

No, I'd call it constructive criticism. Once my wife gets on my back 
about it I imagine I'll be driving it all forward again, so maybe there 
will be hope :)

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Re: Music production on FreeBSD

[Conrad J. Sabatier]

On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 01:02:17 -0700
per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:

> "Conrad J. Sabatier"  wrote:
> 
> > And lately, even some of the timidity++ stuff isn't working
> > right.  The Xaw interface refuses to build/install properly,
> > ever since the removal of X11BASE from the ports infrastructure.
> 
> That "should" only require replacing X11BASE with LOCALBASE
> in the 3 port files where it appears:
> 
>   timidity++/Makefile.interface (3 places)
>   timidity++-motif/Makefile
>   timidity++-xaw/pkg-plist (2 places)

Yes, I took a look at the port one day not too long ago, but ran into
some unexpected difficulties with it, which I can't recall exactly at
the moment.  What I thought would be a simple search-and-replace thing
turned out to have some surprises hidden away up in there.

I'll have to take another shot at it, as my memory of what exactly the
problem was is completely blank right now.  :-)

-- 
Conrad J. Sabatier
conr...@cox.net
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Re: Music production on FreeBSD

[perryh]

"Conrad J. Sabatier"  wrote:

> And lately, even some of the timidity++ stuff isn't working
> right.  The Xaw interface refuses to build/install properly,
> ever since the removal of X11BASE from the ports infrastructure.

That "should" only require replacing X11BASE with LOCALBASE
in the 3 port files where it appears:

  timidity++/Makefile.interface (3 places)
  timidity++-motif/Makefile
  timidity++-xaw/pkg-plist (2 places)
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