Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:20:31 -0400, Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Making it easy to disable stuff in `src.conf' is sort of a middle-path approach. I can live with that for now. If someone else comes along and moves fortune(1) and the other src/games/ stuff in a port, I won't really object either :) I have wondered if it might be reasonable to put a bunch of (more) of that sort of stuff in a select list during installation so a user can choose right then if certain things will be retained or dropped on the floor. Fortune and games and even the latest Perl and some other things might be good candidates for that select list. The current installer already includes something like this. The various collections like src, games, manpages, info docs and the other stuff that shows up in the custom installation menu are one way of selecting what to install and what to leave out. There's definitely a lot of value in making this selection a lot more fine-grained, but then we are very close to the old everything should be a package, including the base system bikeshed. I am not sure I want to go back there :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:31:22 +0200, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) I don't want the games group there, I just don't need it! Have you tried building with an src.conf file that includes: WITHOUT_GAMES='yes' It' not a matter of `kindergarten or not', but a matter of providing a predictable `base system' by default and all the knob and documentation to customize it at will. That's why you can find a lot of customization options in the manpage of src.conf(5). For example, on a `production server' that is a bit limited in space, and doesn't really need compilers, debuggers, profiling tools, or three different firewalls, I would probably build with: WITHOUT_CVS=yes WITHOUT_GAMES='yes' WITHOUT_GCOV=yes WITHOUT_GDB=yes WITHOUT_IPFILTER=yes WITHOUT_IPX=yes WITHOUT_OBJC=yes WITHOUT_PROFILE=yes WITHOUT_SHAREDOCS=yes I would also use WITHOUT_TOOLCHAIN=yes during `make installworld' runs, to skip installing all the gcc, g++ and debugger tools. The default `base system' still installs all these parts, but you are definitely *not* obliged to always install all of them. - Giorgos ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:31:22 +0200, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) I don't want the games group there, I just don't need it! Have you tried building with an src.conf file that includes: WITHOUT_GAMES='yes' It' not a matter of `kindergarten or not', but a matter of providing a predictable `base system' by default and all the knob and documentation to customize it at will. That's why you can find a lot of customization options in the manpage of src.conf(5). For example, on a `production server' that is a bit limited in space, and doesn't really need compilers, debuggers, profiling tools, or three different firewalls, I would probably build with: WITHOUT_CVS=yes WITHOUT_GAMES='yes' WITHOUT_GCOV=yes WITHOUT_GDB=yes WITHOUT_IPFILTER=yes WITHOUT_IPX=yes WITHOUT_OBJC=yes WITHOUT_PROFILE=yes WITHOUT_SHAREDOCS=yes I would also use WITHOUT_TOOLCHAIN=yes during `make installworld' runs, to skip installing all the gcc, g++ and debugger tools. The default `base system' still installs all these parts, but you are definitely *not* obliged to always install all of them. - Giorgos Hello hello! Yeah I actually tried that, but I got the same error. I don't see why the FreeBSD team has to insist on keeping this, pardon my language, bullshit. If some sorry guy actually needs this, why can't he load it as a module, or install a port? To quote some Frenchman: Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. I worry slightly as I watch FreeBSD become bigger and bigger, fearing that some day it'll all come tumbling down! -- http://www.home.no/reddvinylene ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
Redd Vinylene wrote: On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:31:22 +0200, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) I don't want the games group there, I just don't need it! Have you tried building with an src.conf file that includes: WITHOUT_GAMES='yes' It' not a matter of `kindergarten or not', but a matter of providing a predictable `base system' by default and all the knob and documentation to customize it at will. That's why you can find a lot of customization options in the manpage of src.conf(5). For example, on a `production server' that is a bit limited in space, and doesn't really need compilers, debuggers, profiling tools, or three different firewalls, I would probably build with: WITHOUT_CVS=yes WITHOUT_GAMES='yes' WITHOUT_GCOV=yes WITHOUT_GDB=yes WITHOUT_IPFILTER=yes WITHOUT_IPX=yes WITHOUT_OBJC=yes WITHOUT_PROFILE=yes WITHOUT_SHAREDOCS=yes I would also use WITHOUT_TOOLCHAIN=yes during `make installworld' runs, to skip installing all the gcc, g++ and debugger tools. The default `base system' still installs all these parts, but you are definitely *not* obliged to always install all of them. - Giorgos Hello hello! Yeah I actually tried that, but I got the same error. I don't see why the FreeBSD team has to insist on keeping this, pardon my language, bullshit. If some sorry guy actually needs this, why can't he load it as a module, or install a port? To quote some Frenchman: Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. I worry slightly as I watch FreeBSD become bigger and bigger, fearing that some day it'll all come tumbling down! Try to relax and calm down a bit. The games user is a left-over remnant of something that has ALWAYS been part of BSD, but *was* already mostly removed from FreeBSD some years ago (the actual games are now in the ports tree). It is not some insidious creeping bloat that has been added while you weren't looking. Kris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
# Removing [EMAIL PROTECTED] from the recipient list. This isn't # really a thread about marketing or promoting FreeBSD, so it's a bit # off-topic for that list. On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:01:03 +0200, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:31:22 +0200, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) I don't want the games group there, I just don't need it! Have you tried building with an src.conf file that includes: WITHOUT_GAMES='yes' It' not a matter of `kindergarten or not', but a matter of providing a predictable `base system' by default and all the knob and documentation to customize it at will. That's why you can find a lot of customization options in the manpage of src.conf(5). Hello hello! Yeah I actually tried that, but I got the same error. Ok, this may be a bug in the makefiles then. My apologies if you have already written all that. I caught the email thread some time after it started, and I replied while being offline on a trip. A few bits of information which may help us track down what you are seeing and try to reproduce it are: * Which branch/version of the source tree are you building? * How did you build everything? Please list all the command line options, any environment variables and any `make.conf' or `src.conf' options you are using. * What was the _exact_ error message you saw? I have just fired up a buildworld + buildkernel run of 8.0-CURRENT here, to see if I can reproduce this. The build runs with: # export WITHOUT_GAMES=yes # mv /usr/games /usr/games.old # rm -fr /usr/src/games AFAIK, this should work fine, but I will have to wait a bit for the build to finish and report back. I'll post my results in a couple of hours, because that's roughly how long it takes for my laptop to go through a full build install run. In the meantime, if you can repeat the build and email us with the branch, the source version, the environment you used to build and the last 200-300 lines of the error messages you are getting (the full build log would be even better), it would be quite useful as an extra bit of info to track down what is broken for you. With a bit of help from you, to test-build everything and report back with any findings, I'm sure we can at least understand what's different in your local setup :-) I don't see why the FreeBSD team has to insist on keeping this, pardon my language, bullshit. If some sorry guy actually needs this, why can't he load it as a module, or install a port? Insist on keeping what? The fortune cookies and `/usr/src/games'? I don't think anyone insists on *forcing* you to use something you don't want to have around. That's precisely the idea behind WITHOUT_GAMES and similar options. If it doesn't work, we'll fix it. If it does work, on the other hand, we have to find out how to make it work for you too. To quote some Frenchman: Perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. This is one of the nice quotes of Antoine de Saint Exupery, but in our case perfection is also achieved when FreeBSD empowers you to choose the bits that _you_ want to keep. As a team we value the freedom `to pick and choose' and providing a reference body of source code that others can use under the friendly terms of the BSD license is an explicit goal of the Project as a whole. We also understand that it is often very difficult, even outright impossible to satisfy _everyone_ with one flavor of beer, so we try to give everyone a BSD flavored brew that seems to have worked nicely for a lot of people and all the tools to build your own custom flavor. I worry slightly as I watch FreeBSD become bigger and bigger, fearing that some day it'll all come tumbling down! Well, there's a very good way to avoid this. You can *help* us keep BSD in shape. Reports about bugs, problems and issues like the one you are reporting in this thread are an _excellent_ way to do that. If nobody reports a bug, then it won't get solved... By reporting it and helping us track it down, find the fix and commit it to the source tree you are doing everyone (including the FreeBSD Project and yourself) a great service :-) Cheers, Giorgos pgphp0R2zaaCm.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:26:36 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: # Removing [EMAIL PROTECTED] from the recipient list. This isn't # really a thread about marketing or promoting FreeBSD, so it's a bit # off-topic for that list. On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:01:03 +0200, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you tried building with an src.conf file that includes: WITHOUT_GAMES='yes' It' not a matter of `kindergarten or not', but a matter of providing a predictable `base system' by default and all the knob and documentation to customize it at will. That's why you can find a lot of customization options in the manpage of src.conf(5). Hello hello! Yeah I actually tried that, but I got the same error. Ok, this may be a bug in the makefiles then. My apologies if you have already written all that. I caught the email thread some time after it started, and I replied while being offline on a trip. Hi Redd, You are right I think. I just reproduced this a few minutes ago, by deleting the `games' group and user from my password file and installing a userland compiled with WITHOUT_GAMES=yes. Apparently, you can *build* everything when `WITHOUT_GAMES=yes', but when I tried to installworld the resulting distribution, the initial steps of the installation fail with: % -- % Making hierarchy % -- % cd /home/build/src; make -f Makefile.inc1 hierarchy % cd /home/build/src/etc; make distrib-dirs % mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p / % mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist -p /var % mtree: line 48: unknown group games % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src/etc. % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src. % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src. % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src. % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src. % [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/build/src# That's because src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist and BSD.var.dist include references to the `games' user and group. I'll try to split the relevant bits in a new `BSD.games.dist' file which will be conditionally passed to mtree(8) depending on WITHOUT_GAMES. Is this the same error as the one you are seeing? When I prepare a patch for this, would you be willing to test it for me? - Giorgos ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:04:26 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
% --
% Making hierarchy
% --
% cd /home/build/src; make -f Makefile.inc1 hierarchy
% cd /home/build/src/etc; make distrib-dirs
% mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p /
% mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist -p /var
% mtree: line 48: unknown group games
% *** Error code 1
%
% Stop in /home/build/src/etc.
% *** Error code 1
%
% Stop in /home/build/src.
% *** Error code 1
%
% Stop in /home/build/src.
% *** Error code 1
%
% Stop in /home/build/src.
% *** Error code 1
%
% Stop in /home/build/src.
% [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/build/src#
That's because src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist and BSD.var.dist include
references to the `games' user and group. I'll try to split the
relevant bits in a new `BSD.games.dist' file which will be conditionally
passed to mtree(8) depending on WITHOUT_GAMES.
Is this the same error as the one you are seeing? When I prepare a
patch for this, would you be willing to test it for me?
Ok, think I got it...
Here's the patch I am testing now. If this works locally, I'll post it
for review to our Makefile gurus and commit it when we get it into shape.
If things work without problems in CURRENT for a few days, I'll backport
it to the STABLE branches too.
%%%
diff -r ef7ac5c285f5 etc/Makefile
--- a/etc/Makefile Tue Aug 26 16:37:27 2008 +0300
+++ b/etc/Makefile Tue Aug 26 18:27:33 2008 +0300
@@ -56,6 +56,9 @@
BSD.var.dist BSD.x11.dist BSD.x11-4.dist
.if ${MK_SENDMAIL} != no
MTREE+=BSD.sendmail.dist
+.endif
+.if ${MK_GAMES} != no
+MTREE+= BSD.games.dist
.endif
.if ${MK_BIND} != no
MTREE+=BIND.chroot.dist
@@ -204,6 +207,9 @@
.if ${MK_SENDMAIL} != no
mtree -deU ${MTREE_FOLLOWS_SYMLINKS} -f
${.CURDIR}/mtree/BSD.sendmail.dist -p ${DESTDIR}/
.endif
+.if ${MK_GAMES} != no
+ mtree -deU ${MTREE_FOLLOWS_SYMLINKS} -f ${.CURDIR}/mtree/BSD.games.dist
-p ${DESTDIR}/
+.endif
cd ${DESTDIR}/; rm -f ${DESTDIR}/sys; ln -s usr/src/sys sys
cd ${DESTDIR}/usr/share/man/en.ISO8859-1; ln -sf ../man* .
cd ${DESTDIR}/usr/share/man; \
diff -r ef7ac5c285f5 etc/mtree/BSD.games.dist
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +
+++ b/etc/mtree/BSD.games.dist Tue Aug 26 18:27:33 2008 +0300
@@ -0,0 +1,16 @@
+# $FreeBSD$
+#
+# Please see the file src/etc/mtree/README before making changes to this file.
+#
+
+/set type=dir uname=root gname=wheel mode=0755
+.
+usr
+games
+..
+..
+var
+games gname=games mode=0775
+..
+..
+..
diff -r ef7ac5c285f5 etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist
--- a/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.distTue Aug 26 16:37:27 2008 +0300
+++ b/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.distTue Aug 26 18:27:33 2008 +0300
@@ -6,8 +6,6 @@
/set type=dir uname=root gname=wheel mode=0755
.
bin
-..
-games
..
include
..
diff -r ef7ac5c285f5 etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist
--- a/etc/mtree/BSD.var.distTue Aug 26 16:37:27 2008 +0300
+++ b/etc/mtree/BSD.var.distTue Aug 26 18:27:33 2008 +0300
@@ -45,8 +45,6 @@
..
empty mode=0555 flags=schg
..
-games gname=games mode=0775
-..
heimdal mode=0700
..
log
%%%
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Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:29:48 +0200, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, this may be a bug in the makefiles then. My apologies if you have already written all that. I caught the email thread some time after it started, and I replied while being offline on a trip. Welcome back, I hope you had a pleasant journey! Heh, thanks. It was nice in a way :) * Which branch/version of the source tree are you building? I was going from 7.0-RELEASE to 7.0-STABLE. * How did you build everything? I put WITHOUT_GAMES=YES in /etc/src.conf. * What was the _exact_ error message you saw? I don't remember exactly what it said. But it was just the same as it's always been -- make world erroring out because group `games' doesn't exist. Thanks! I got it tracked down to the reference to 'games' in the mtree files we use to populate the installation tree with directories before installing programs and data in them. By looking at the differences from 7.0-STABLE to 8.0-CURRENT the same problem exists in both branches. I don't see why the FreeBSD team has to insist on keeping this, pardon my language, bullshit. If some sorry guy actually needs this, why can't he load it as a module, or install a port? Insist on keeping what? The fortune cookies and `/usr/src/games'? And all the other old stuff you can disable in in src.conf. This is the same old argument about ``what should be in the base system and what should be a port''. I'm almost sure we can find people who like fortune(1) in the base system, and I can certainly understand that some people don't really care if it goes. Making it easy to disable stuff in `src.conf' is sort of a middle-path approach. I can live with that for now. If someone else comes along and moves fortune(1) and the other src/games/ stuff in a port, I won't really object either :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
Ok, this may be a bug in the makefiles then. My apologies if you have already written all that. I caught the email thread some time after it started, and I replied while being offline on a trip. Welcome back, I hope you had a pleasant journey! * Which branch/version of the source tree are you building? I was going from 7.0-RELEASE to 7.0-STABLE. * How did you build everything? I put WITHOUT_GAMES=YES in /etc/src.conf. * What was the _exact_ error message you saw? I don't remember exactly what it said. But it was just the same as it's always been -- make world erroring out because group `games' doesn't exist. I have just fired up a buildworld + buildkernel run of 8.0-CURRENT here, to see if I can reproduce this. The build runs with: # export WITHOUT_GAMES=yes # mv /usr/games /usr/games.old # rm -fr /usr/src/games AFAIK, this should work fine, but I will have to wait a bit for the build to finish and report back. I'll post my results in a couple of hours, because that's roughly how long it takes for my laptop to go through a full build install run. Cool. I appreciate that! I don't see why the FreeBSD team has to insist on keeping this, pardon my language, bullshit. If some sorry guy actually needs this, why can't he load it as a module, or install a port? Insist on keeping what? The fortune cookies and `/usr/src/games'? And all the other old stuff you can disable in in src.conf. This is one of the nice quotes of Antoine de Saint Exupery, but in our case perfection is also achieved when FreeBSD empowers you to choose the bits that _you_ want to keep. I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying here, but it's certainly not related to what Mr. Exupery was saying. You can't sell someone a new car full of obsolete parts, saying now you have the freedom to choose what parts _you_ want to keep, that's just ridiculous. Next thing you know the person will die in a car crash. Let me give you another quote. I trust you'll be able to track down the author for this one as well: Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This requires not that the writer make all his sentences short, or that he avoid all detail and treat his subjects only in outline, but that every word tell. I understand you're saying that people are free to pick apart excess weight from their systems. But only a small percentage actually needs this excess weight. So wouldn't it be better to take it out, and instead, give the ones who need it the freedom put it back in? We also understand that it is often very difficult, even outright impossible to satisfy _everyone_ with one flavor of beer, so we try to give everyone a BSD flavored brew that seems to have worked nicely for a lot of people and all the tools to build your own custom flavor. Alcohol is bad for your health. I worry slightly as I watch FreeBSD become bigger and bigger, fearing that some day it'll all come tumbling down! Well, there's a very good way to avoid this. You can *help* us keep BSD in shape. Reports about bugs, problems and issues like the one you are reporting in this thread are an _excellent_ way to do that. If nobody reports a bug, then it won't get solved... By reporting it and helping us track it down, find the fix and commit it to the source tree you are doing everyone (including the FreeBSD Project and yourself) a great service :-) I appreciate the invitation. I hope I'll be able to devote large parts of my life to the improvement of FreeBSD. Cheers, Giorgos -- http://www.home.no/reddvinylene ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:30:02 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:04:26 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: % -- % Making hierarchy % -- % cd /home/build/src; make -f Makefile.inc1 hierarchy % cd /home/build/src/etc; make distrib-dirs % mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p / % mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist -p /var % mtree: line 48: unknown group games % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src/etc. % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src. % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src. % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src. % *** Error code 1 % % Stop in /home/build/src. % [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/build/src# That's because src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist and BSD.var.dist include references to the `games' user and group. I'll try to split the relevant bits in a new `BSD.games.dist' file which will be conditionally passed to mtree(8) depending on WITHOUT_GAMES. Is this the same error as the one you are seeing? When I prepare a patch for this, would you be willing to test it for me? Ok, think I got it... Here's the patch I am testing now. If this works locally, I'll post it for review to our Makefile gurus and commit it when we get it into shape. Yay! It seems to have worked in 8.0-CURRENT here... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/build/src# export WITHOUT_GAMES=yes [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/build/src# make KERNCONF=KOBE installworld [...] -- Making hierarchy -- cd /home/build/src; make -f Makefile.inc1 hierarchy cd /home/build/src/etc; make distrib-dirs mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p / mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist -p /var mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /usr mtree -eU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.include.dist -p /usr/include mtree -deU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BIND.chroot.dist -p /var/named mtree -deU -f /home/build/src/etc/mtree/BSD.sendmail.dist -p / cd /; rm -f /sys; ln -s usr/src/sys sys cd /usr/share/man/en.ISO8859-1; ln -sf ../man* . cd /usr/share/man; set - `grep ^[a-zA-Z] /home/build/src/etc/man.alias`; while [ $# -gt 0 ] ; do rm -rf $1; ln -s $2 $1; shift; shift; done cd /usr/share/openssl/man; set - `grep ^[a-zA-Z] /home/build/src/etc/man.alias`; while [ $# -gt 0 ] ; do rm -rf $1; ln -s $2 $1; shift; shift; done cd /usr/share/openssl/man/en.ISO8859-1; ln -sf ../man* . cd /usr/share/nls; set - `grep ^[a-zA-Z] /home/build/src/etc/nls.alias`; while [ $# -gt 0 ] ; do rm -rf $1; ln -s $2 $1; shift; shift; done -- Installing everything -- [...] I've uploaded the patch for 8.0-CURRENT at: http://people.freebsd.org/~keramida/diff/games-mtree.diff and the patch for 7-STABLE at: http://people.freebsd.org/~keramida/diff/games-mtree.stable7.diff The `games-mtree.stable7.diff' should apply on top of today's 7-STABLE source tree with: # cd /var/tmp ; fetch http://people.freebsd.org/~keramida/diff/games-mtree.stable7.diff # cd /usr/src ; patch -p0 /var/tmp/games-mtree.stable7.diff Can you patch your 7-STABLE /usr/src source tree and run another build install cycle? I think WITHOUT_GAMES=yes should work then. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 06:44:38PM +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:29:48 +0200, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, this may be a bug in the makefiles then. My apologies if you have already written all that. I caught the email thread some time after it started, and I replied while being offline on a trip. Welcome back, I hope you had a pleasant journey! Heh, thanks. It was nice in a way :) * Which branch/version of the source tree are you building? I was going from 7.0-RELEASE to 7.0-STABLE. * How did you build everything? I put WITHOUT_GAMES=YES in /etc/src.conf. * What was the _exact_ error message you saw? I don't remember exactly what it said. But it was just the same as it's always been -- make world erroring out because group `games' doesn't exist. Thanks! I got it tracked down to the reference to 'games' in the mtree files we use to populate the installation tree with directories before installing programs and data in them. By looking at the differences from 7.0-STABLE to 8.0-CURRENT the same problem exists in both branches. I don't see why the FreeBSD team has to insist on keeping this, pardon my language, bullshit. If some sorry guy actually needs this, why can't he load it as a module, or install a port? Insist on keeping what? The fortune cookies and `/usr/src/games'? And all the other old stuff you can disable in in src.conf. This is the same old argument about ``what should be in the base system and what should be a port''. I'm almost sure we can find people who like fortune(1) in the base system, and I can certainly understand that some people don't really care if it goes. Making it easy to disable stuff in `src.conf' is sort of a middle-path approach. I can live with that for now. If someone else comes along and moves fortune(1) and the other src/games/ stuff in a port, I won't really object either :) I have wondered if it might be reasonable to put a bunch of (more) of that sort of stuff in a select list during installation so a user can choose right then if certain things will be retained or dropped on the floor. Fortune and games and even the latest Perl and some other things might be good candidates for that select list. I know there is a place where you can run through pretty much the whole list of ports and select, but that is really too overwhelming. I would suggest this be a separate list, mostly limited to those things that many people want (but others don't) in the base system. Some of these pretty much stand alone and shouldn't add complications of dependancies, but I suppose some might. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:20:31 -0400 Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have wondered if it might be reasonable to put a bunch of (more) of that sort of stuff in a select list during installation so a user can choose right then if certain things will be retained or dropped on the floor. Most of the base system options are either highly-technical or bike-shed options like removing games. If those options are exposed in the installer, they should be buried so deep you need caving equipment. Fortune and games and even the latest Perl and some other things might be good candidates for that select list. I know there is a place where you can run through pretty much the whole list of ports and select, but that is really too overwhelming. I would suggest this be a separate list, mostly limited to those things that many people want (but others don't) in the base system. Personally I think it's a very bad idea to blur the distinction between base system and packages in the installer. If you already know FreeBSD, it's potentially confusing; if you don't it just reinforces the misconception that everything is a package. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
Adding WITHOUT_GAMES=YES to /etc/src.conf most certainly didn't work. Why does FreeBSD pack so much, pardon my language, bullshit anyway? Yes, one or two (out of one or two million) might need it, but can't we make it available to them in some other way? As a module or a port or something? Thanks! On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:47 PM, darko gavrilovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) .. but you will miss out on all the murphy's law quotes.. one of the few enjoyments a sysadmin has left in this world. -- regards, dg ..but the more you use clever tricks, the less support you'll get ... -- M.W.Lucas ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 06:48:27PM +0200, Redd Vinylene wrote: Why does FreeBSD pack so much, pardon my language, bullshit anyway? Because no one has done the necessary QA work to factor things out and make them work. mcl ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
2008/8/2 Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Adding WITHOUT_GAMES=YES to /etc/src.conf most certainly didn't work. Why does FreeBSD pack so much, pardon my language, bullshit anyway? There can be, and has been, said the same about nearly every part of the base system, at some point. Perhaps these few utilities amuse one or two people, though I suppose a professional operating system wouldn't include anything like minesweeper or freecell . . . -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 18:48:27 +0200 Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding WITHOUT_GAMES=YES to /etc/src.conf most certainly didn't work. Why does FreeBSD pack so much, pardon my language, bullshit anyway? It's largely a consequence of having a coherent OS, rather than a kernel and third-party packages. Yes, one or two (out of one or two million) might need it, but can't we make it available to them in some other way? As a module or a port or something? Like I already said, that's been done, the actual games went to a port. I don't see why you care so much about removing 3.2Mb. BTW please stop cross-posting to bugs, if you think you've found a bug, you should go through proper channels and file a PR. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I can't make world without the games group?
Hello! Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) I don't want the games group there, I just don't need it! Thanks! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
That is so cool! Thanks! On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Curt Micol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: man src.conf(5) On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) I don't want the games group there, I just don't need it! Thanks! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- # Curt Micol ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
Hi! On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:31:22 +0200, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) I don't want the games group there, I just don't need it! Alltough the system's games group does not require much disk space, there's a way not to build them: Create /etc/src.conf or midify it with the following statement: WITHOUT_GAMES Refer to man src.conf for further things not to build. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
man src.conf(5) On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) I don't want the games group there, I just don't need it! Thanks! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- # Curt Micol ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) .. but you will miss out on all the murphy's law quotes.. one of the few enjoyments a sysadmin has left in this world. -- regards, dg ..but the more you use clever tricks, the less support you'll get ... -- M.W.Lucas ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I can't make world without the games group?
On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:31:22 +0200 Redd Vinylene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Why can't I make world without the games group? I run a serious server, not a kindergarten ;) I don't want the games group there, I just don't need it! Games is a bit of a misnomer, Most of the old FreeBSD games have been moved into games/freebsd-games. What's left is not much more than fortune (for login tips), and includes several things that could equally well be regarded as utilities: primes(6), factor(6), random(6). Before you remove games, make sure you don't use any scripts that rely on these utilities. For example the ports system ignores RANDOMIZE_MASTER_SITES if you don't have random(6) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
