Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks
--On December 25, 2007 10:25:08 PM -0800 David Benfell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 00:38:11 -0500, Mikhail Teterin wrote: If we want people to give FreeBSD a try in good faith, it is both profoundly stupid and dishonest on our part to claim, we have a working USB-system... It does not matter, how great our buffer-sharing VM is, if a home user can't process their photos with a FreeBSD-powered computer. To the OP of this thread - generalized statements like this aren't very helpful. I have a USB mouse and a USB keyboard, both of which work fine and always have. I mount USB thumb drives frequently to copy and move files back and forth. I have a USB hard drive that is automounted at boot. None of these devices has ever given me problems. I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I suspect it's the failure to automount devices without first doing some configuration or to mount devices when you are not logged in as root. While I have not experienced difficulty with umass, I would have to comment that as near as I can tell, *nothing* else on USB works. Not my scanner, nor my Treo. Both have worked intermittently in the recent past, so I believe my configuration is not at issue. These I can't comment on, because I don't use them, although I note that there is a uscanner driver that *should* work for most scanners. Man (4) uscanner has a lenghty list of supported scanners. You might check to see if yours is on the list. Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Senior Information Security Analyst The University of Texas at Dallas http://www.utdallas.edu/ir/security/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:52:25 -0600, Paul Schmehl wrote: --On December 25, 2007 10:25:08 PM -0800 David Benfell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To the OP of this thread - generalized statements like this aren't very helpful. I have a USB mouse and a USB keyboard, both of which work fine and always have. I mount USB thumb drives frequently to copy and move files back and forth. I have a USB hard drive that is automounted at boot. Your thumb drives and hard drives are -- duh -- umass. Okay, so the original poster is even having problems with that. I'll concede to an over-generalization, but it is also rather frustrating when I--as an end user--encounter problems with USB that I can't get any response on. When I first posted about problems with my Treo, the suggestion was to try upgrading to 7.0-BETA. I've worked with CURRENT in the past, and have generally had a positive experience, so I cheerfully complied, though I did note that I was moving onto the bleeding edge. I have had serious problems ever since and I will not repeat this mistake. I initially had a little better luck with the Treo, but encountered the nasty IP bug (and it was a doozy--I almost spent several hundred dollars that I don't have on another router box from my ISP because all of a sudden my system was both unreliable and my Internet access was unreliable). I have had to uninstall or disable pieces of software that, in one case, prevented the system from coming all the way up, and in several cases, slowed the system to less than a crawl. And for all that, connectivity with the Treo is now non-existent, and I've lost the functionality of my scanner. Information on my system can be found at: http://www.parts-unknown.org/systems/lupin.cybernude.org/ Inquiries to this list or to freebsd-current have generally yielded no response. At least with 7.0-RC1, Xorg appears to be more stable. (I noticed my port upgrades rebuilding numerous gnome ports repeatedly.) None of these devices has ever given me problems. I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I suspect it's the failure to automount devices without first doing some configuration or to mount devices when you are not logged in as root. The state of the documentation here leaves much to be desired. In some cases, information appears to be out of date, and in others, it is simply wrong. And before you complain that I should post reports of these problems, see above about the response I get when I encounter problems. Much as I love FreeBSD, and even with a background in computers going back to the late 1970s (then as a programmer), the environment here does not seem to foster a kind of interaction that solves problems. Having been a programmer, and having worked in customer service, I know that consumers are the most frustrating people to deal with. But we really need to be your friends. Because that's how you make the product that we all love, better. While I have not experienced difficulty with umass, I would have to comment that as near as I can tell, *nothing* else on USB works. Not my scanner, nor my Treo. Both have worked intermittently in the recent past, so I believe my configuration is not at issue. These I can't comment on, because I don't use them, although I note that there is a uscanner driver that *should* work for most scanners. Man (4) uscanner has a lenghty list of supported scanners. You might check to see if yours is on the list. There is a conflict in the documentation here. See the man pages for sane, which specify that libusb should be used in place of the uscanner driver. -- David Benfell, LCP [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Resume available at http://www.parts-unknown.org/ NOTE: I sign all messages with GnuPG (0DD1D1E3). pgpFijlnF6Q7e.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Paul Schmehl wrote: --On December 25, 2007 10:25:08 PM -0800 David Benfell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 00:38:11 -0500, Mikhail Teterin wrote: If we want people to give FreeBSD a try in good faith, it is both profoundly stupid and dishonest on our part to claim, we have a working USB-system... It does not matter, how great our buffer-sharing VM is, if a home user can't process their photos with a FreeBSD-powered computer. To the OP of this thread - generalized statements like this aren't very helpful. I have a USB mouse and a USB keyboard, both of which work fine and always have. Well, me too, and a USB scanner which works well. But I understand the frustration. Lately, I was trying to use a card reader with a too-long USB cable. Not only did that not work, but it could slow the system down to nothing or panic it. Fixed with a powered hub... It seems like we need another kind of storage, something that is known to be only mostly data-safe. If the system would gracefully handle unexpected media removals, that would be nice. Not everything is a trustworthy hard drive. The user ought to be able to tell the system Yes, da0s1 is an msdos filesystem which I'm going to be yanking out at unexpected times. Yes, I know it might lose some data, but at least figure things out and don't panic. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks
--On December 26, 2007 3:45:15 PM -0700 Warren Block [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, me too, and a USB scanner which works well. But I understand the frustration. As do I. Lately, I was trying to use a card reader with a too-long USB cable. Not only did that not work, but it could slow the system down to nothing or panic it. Fixed with a powered hub... I have encountered numerous problems with USB on Windows as well. Some devices only work when plugged directly in to a port on the box. Some are perfectly happy to share a hub with others. So I don't think *all* of the problems are OS-related. It seems like we need another kind of storage, something that is known to be only mostly data-safe. If the system would gracefully handle unexpected media removals, that would be nice. Not everything is a trustworthy hard drive. The user ought to be able to tell the system Yes, da0s1 is an msdos filesystem which I'm going to be yanking out at unexpected times. Yes, I know it might lose some data, but at least figure things out and don't panic. I absolutely agree with this. At a minimum it should be possible to forcibly umount a device that you removed after forgetting to umount it first. If I had the first clue about the code, I'd submit a patch. Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Senior Information Security Analyst The University of Texas at Dallas http://www.utdallas.edu/ir/security/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Paul Schmehl wrote: --On December 26, 2007 3:45:15 PM -0700 Warren Block [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems like we need another kind of storage, something that is known to be only mostly data-safe. If the system would gracefully handle unexpected media removals, that would be nice. Not everything is a trustworthy hard drive. The user ought to be able to tell the system Yes, da0s1 is an msdos filesystem which I'm going to be yanking out at unexpected times. Yes, I know it might lose some data, but at least figure things out and don't panic. I absolutely agree with this. At a minimum it should be possible to forcibly umount a device that you removed after forgetting to umount it first. If I had the first clue about the code, I'd submit a patch. The code is likely... er, non-trivial, and might reach into some deep places. Maybe a project the FreeBSD Foundation would sponsor? (Seems like there was something about bounty projects being ungood, but maybe I have that wrong. If not, I think a lot of us would be willing to contribute funds to a Don't Panic: Removable Media project.) -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 00:38:11 -0500, Mikhail Teterin wrote: If we want people to give FreeBSD a try in good faith, it is both profoundly stupid and dishonest on our part to claim, we have a working USB-system... It does not matter, how great our buffer-sharing VM is, if a home user can't process their photos with a FreeBSD-powered computer. While I have not experienced difficulty with umass, I would have to comment that as near as I can tell, *nothing* else on USB works. Not my scanner, nor my Treo. Both have worked intermittently in the recent past, so I believe my configuration is not at issue. -- David Benfell, LCP [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Resume available at http://www.parts-unknown.org/ NOTE: I sign all messages with GnuPG (0DD1D1E3). pgpyfKE4rMt88.pgp Description: PGP signature
