[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
Update of bug #20886 (project freeciv): Status: In Progress = None Assigned to: jtn = None Planned Release: 2.3.5,2.4.1,2.5.0,2.6.0 = ___ Follow-up Comment #11: Since this turned out to be a can of worms, removing targets for now, and relinquishing ticket -- someone else feel free to grab it. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
Follow-up Comment #10, bug #20886 (project freeciv): There's also the question if whatever limitations we implement should apply to beginning of the building, finishing of the building, or both. I see that tech loss and terrain change (caused by climate change) will check if unit activities can continue. Perhaps the same should be done when diplomatic relationships change? On the other hand the diplomatic relationships has the potential to change quite often in games with many players. Iterating over all units each time the relationship between any two players change may be to expensive. I'm not qualified to say if it is worth the performance cost. Limiting the check to only local DiplRel requirements (and therefore the units of the two players involved) is inconsistent but less expensive. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
Follow-up Comment #8, bug #20886 (project freeciv): Attached patch is 100% rule set based. It is primarily intended as a contribution to the discussion. * Transfer of ownership to border owner isn't addressed. (It may be possible to create an effect or requirement vector on the extra to trigger the transfer. Creating that should probably wait until extras have settled down) * The patch will only work on trunk. It adds requirements about the diplomatic relationship between terrain owner and the builder as build requirements of border claiming bases. The patch forbids building terrain claiming bases on the terrain of players you have peace or armistice with. Others are still allowed. I don't have strong feelings about what relations should prevent base building. My reasoning for the requirements I added: Building on the terrain of an ally may be needed to defend him. Cease-fire expires to war so some stealing is expected. Armistice expires to peace so stealing isn't expected. (file #18721) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: banBorderStealingWhenPeace.patch Size:1 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
Follow-up Comment #9, bug #20886 (project freeciv): There's also the question if whatever limitations we implement should apply to beginning of the building, finishing of the building, or both. That is: what if diplomatic relation between players change while building is in progress? ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
Update of bug #20886 (project freeciv): Planned Release: 2.3.5,2.4.0,2.5.0,2.6.0 = 2.3.5,2.4.1,2.5.0,2.6.0 ___ Follow-up Comment #7: Then again, maybe building the fortress should be always allowed, but the change is made to who owns the fortress in the end. That only makes sense with allies. You mean that if one builds fortress within peaceful borders, one should get the fortress and borders. I think it's your action of building the fortress for peaceful nation that may not make sense. Naturally, if you're in war, you would still get the fortress for yourself. to sum the proposed code change: If territory-claiming base is built within borders of someone builder is not in war with, owner of the base will be that border owner, not builder. Note that this DOES have some not-so-obvious consequences when there's already some other base on the tile. If owner of those is builder of the new base, (s)he will lose all bases to border owner. Anyway, this is not a regression since 2.3, so could, or at this point: should, wait to 2.4.1. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
Follow-up Comment #5, bug #20886 (project freeciv): how do you prevent (without killing the builder) peaceful player from building the base Even allied countries do not *completely* trust the military units of others. This is typically handled with a SOFA [Status Of Forces Agreement] treaty, that spells out what activities are allowed and specifies penalties for violations. Then again, maybe building the fortress should be always allowed, but the change is made to who owns the fortress in the end. I think this is a better solution. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
Follow-up Comment #3, bug #20886 (project freeciv): As a longturn player I dislike this new change. In longturn we already have a pre-fortress base that prevents the sudden building of a fortress in enemy territory. It gives time for the territory owner to destroy the construction before a fortress is built. Please add a ruleset option so that this change can be turned off ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
Follow-up Comment #4, bug #20886 (project freeciv): - One should be able to build fortress at least when in war. It's not uncommon for me to build fortress as beachhead to enemy island (preferably to spot enemy cannot see even if it's within borders) for no-stack-death especially. Then I can ship attackers there as much as I want (= as long as I want with limited transport capacity). - I don't think comment #3 makes sense when this is about preventing building fortress to peaceful nation - how do you prevent (without killing the builder) peaceful player from building the base Then again, maybe building the fortress should be always allowed, but the change is made to who owns the fortress in the end. Maybe fortress should be considered owned by the border owner by default, and then same rules applied as when unit enters empty fortress - you can take enemy fortress but not allied (you shouldn't be able to take peaceful fortress, but I'm not sure if anybody has ever considered that case in implementation) For one, that would allow one to help allies by building fortresses (not so far-fetched idea in our slow-research games where ally may be far from learning Construction while I already have it and want to stop common enemy) ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
Update of bug #20886 (project freeciv): Status:None = In Progress Assigned to:None = jtn Operating System:None = Any Planned Release: = 2.3.5,2.4.0,2.5.0,2.6.0 ___ Follow-up Comment #1: Attached lightly-tested patch which simply disallows building territory-claiming bases in others' territory. I haven't gone for checking diplomatic state, so even if you're at war with someone (or indeed allied), you now can't build fortresses in their territory, just the same as you can't build cities. Is that OK? (For trunk only so far, haven't tried backporting it, but I think this should go to stable branches too.) (file #18226) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: trunk-restrict-territory-claiming-bases.patch Size:2 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #20886] Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius
URL: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 Summary: Fortresses can be used to take over territory within peaceful neighbour's city radius Project: Freeciv Submitted by: jtn Submitted on: Tue Jun 11 09:41:17 2013 Category: None Severity: 3 - Normal Priority: 5 - Normal Status: None Assigned to: None Originator Email: Open/Closed: Open Release: Discussion Lock: Any Operating System: None Planned Release: ___ Details: From mrvn on IRC: 19:37 mrvn I think I have found an exploit for peace. I have an army of diplomats and workers. First I move the diplomat onto an enemy tile, that takes care of zone-of-control issues. Then I move the I follow up with 3 worker and build a fortress, that makes the tile mine and I can follow up with musketeers. Soon the enemy cities will starve. [...] 09:30 jtn mrvn: peace exploit hm, yes, I see. I think the solution is to prohibit settlers/workers from building border-claiming bases inside someone else's borders, the same way building cities is prohibited. 09:31 engla you could disallow it when at peace 09:36 jtn Yes, I suppose it's fair game in war (where they can come and bash you). ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?20886 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
