Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Culture
On 29 January 2013 03:01, Marko Lindqvist wrote: > On 29 January 2013 02:50, Jacob Nevins > <0jacobnk.fc...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote: >> >> Back to culture: we've got the "nationality" feature that doesn't do a >> lot at the moment. I found this idea somewhat reminiscent of CivIV >> culture. > > I consider the two concepts separate, though in real life a lot of > culture (or all, for certain meaning of the word) is specific to > nationality. For the interaction of the two concepts, I've considered > making multicultural cities to produce more culture than those with > only one nationality. > Anyway, for the schedule question, I have now decided to work on some > nationality patches first so we get it a bit improved to 2.5. Patch #3628 adds new happiness step for nationality related happiness modifications. Now i wonder if culture related happiness modifications should be included in this same step, or should they apply like current luxury or temple/cathedral effects. This should be decided more on game balance point of view than realism view, I think. If they go to same step as nationality modifications I wonder what to call that nationality+culture step? Not that our step names would be completely accurate otherwise (named like "Buildings" when there's no telling if the effects are provided by buildings, tech, government, or terrain city is on) - ML ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Culture
On 2013 Jan 28, at 4:50 PM, Jacob Nevins wrote: > I wonder if there should be a minimum city size for outward migration in > some circumstances. Say, a city of size 2 is immune to international > migration, so foreign cities aren't completely disbanded -- there's a > core of people who'll never drift across the border. I'm liking this idea. And maybe size one cities being immune to national migration - that would be people proud of their hometown? sent from Lion Mrs. Formby: My god, they could lobotomize the network. Without television, this city would be ungovernable! ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Culture
On 29 January 2013 02:50, Jacob Nevins <0jacobnk.fc...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote: > > Back to culture: we've got the "nationality" feature that doesn't do a > lot at the moment. I found this idea somewhat reminiscent of CivIV > culture. I consider the two concepts separate, though in real life a lot of culture (or all, for certain meaning of the word) is specific to nationality. For the interaction of the two concepts, I've considered making multicultural cities to produce more culture than those with only one nationality. Anyway, for the schedule question, I have now decided to work on some nationality patches first so we get it a bit improved to 2.5. - ML ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Culture
Marko Lindqvist writes: > Yes, I think migration has fundamental design flaw in that there's > simply no way for new/small cities to defend themselves against it, so > it's impossible to found new cities near already well established > cities. It's not completely impossible. I've had some success with making a pile of settlers and founding a size-7 or so city in a single turn near a black hole megacity. However, sometimes even that isn't sufficient, and the lack of infrastructure can be a problem (and doesn't help with the migration score); it helps to also have a massive pile of money to buy a building a turn to make the city viable / desirable. So, it does certainly take considerable organisation and economic surplus. Not arguing it couldn't be improved... I wonder if there should be a minimum city size for outward migration in some circumstances. Say, a city of size 2 is immune to international migration, so foreign cities aren't completely disbanded -- there's a core of people who'll never drift across the border. Or some way a player can invest in a city (say buildings) so that citizens below a certain city size won't migrate. I don't think that should be universal; I kind of like how megacities swallow up their smaller neighbours in the same nation, like London swallowing up all the little towns around it -- especially when the citymap gets bigger with the population, as in the current experimental ruleset. Everything gets centralised in fewer cities, and that has advantages and disadvantages. Having lots of little rump size-2 cities would just be annoying. Back to culture: we've got the "nationality" feature that doesn't do a lot at the moment. I found this idea somewhat reminiscent of CivIV culture. ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Culture
On 28 January 2013 18:25, David Lowe wrote: > On 2013 Jan 27, at 5:38 PM, Marko Lindqvist wrote: > >> Capturing cities with superior cultural influence >> is the obvious solution, which many other games have also implemented, >> but that wouldn't work well with our existing migration concept. > > Personally i find migration of population units to be an interesting > idea, but unsatisfactory in execution. It tends to force 'large pox' to an > extreme; before a city has been built up enough to attract foreigners it > begins to cannibalize neighboring friendly cities. By the time it can bring > people across the border it faces a challenge in feeding so many mouths. I > can go ahead and build the Supermarket, but what then? After the enemy city > has disbanded it leaves a ruin on the border; founding a new city there is of > course useless. If i had annexed the enemy city instead it would help to > push my border further out... Yes, I think migration has fundamental design flaw in that there's simply no way for new/small cities to defend themselves against it, so it's impossible to found new cities near already well established cities. I've tried to work around this in my own rulesets, but most of the time I end just disabling migration. - ML ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] Culture
On 2013 Jan 27, at 5:38 PM, Marko Lindqvist wrote: > This would weaken some of the existing concepts - sometimes > "happiness" rules even seem like "culture" rules under different name. I think this is fine, at least until something better comes along. > Capturing cities with superior cultural influence > is the obvious solution, which many other games have also implemented, > but that wouldn't work well with our existing migration concept. Personally i find migration of population units to be an interesting idea, but unsatisfactory in execution. It tends to force 'large pox' to an extreme; before a city has been built up enough to attract foreigners it begins to cannibalize neighboring friendly cities. By the time it can bring people across the border it faces a challenge in feeding so many mouths. I can go ahead and build the Supermarket, but what then? After the enemy city has disbanded it leaves a ruin on the border; founding a new city there is of course useless. If i had annexed the enemy city instead it would help to push my border further out... > People are already moving to better place. Again, culture could > contribute to migration score, but it cannot replace it. > But there's one very simple solution. Let's not make culture to give > unrealistic bonuses to be used in a way to victory, but to be the > victory condition itself. Let's simply add optional victory condition > for cultural domination, and everyone has to build their culture at > least to prevent others from winning. I agree with that. sent from Lion Edison Carter: Security Systems has its tendrils into every element of our society - the government, our homes, the police, the courts - I'm not gonna spike this story just because it deals with dollar amounts beyond your comprehension! It's too important! Murray: ...cerebral... Theora Jones: Murray, we're trying to play this takeover as a threat to our average viewer. Nobody knows who's doing it. I mean, we all deal with SS every day - what if some really dangerous people got control of it? Murray: Who do you think controls it now? ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
