Re: [Freedos-user] recovering a file?
I really wish a third party option. wikepedia is wrong about norton utilities..but it can be wrong in general often. had no idea it ever shipped with ms dos. I bought my copy new from the company. I have never been so thankful that I house keep like this in my entire life. there are two files now, only two. still the problem would be far far worse if I did not have a prior edition of the e drive circle August 2010. Equally norton utilities 8 would support fat 32 because it came out after windows 98 if memory serves, with utilities specifically for this. I wonder if spinwrite has a file recovery tool? the file was overwritten during the xcopy process not damaged. in in fact here is nothing wrong with the drive or its partition. going tor read up on unearse in this dos set of norton utilities. Karen On Sun, 10 Nov 2013, Eric Auer wrote: Hi Karen, let me simplify this some. I just did this about three hours ago. I have done nothing to the drive where the file was, in an effort of being very very sure it can be recovered. As mentioned, the 2002 version of FreeDOS undelete avoids to write the drive FROM which you extract data, but newer versions may. The (Norton) version shipped with MS DOS also does. If you want to be very very sure, then the best way would be to make a disk image of the drive which contains the damaged file and then do all other steps in a read-only fashion only using that disk image. Forensics tutorials should be available online - for example people tend to accidentally overwrite pictures on their digicam memory cards, so the problem is sort of common. granted dos 7.1 does not have undilute. dos 6.22 did, and I still have that on a different drive. Note that the undelete of MS DOS 6 does not support FAT32, so if your partition is FAT32, it would be a different story. FreeDOS also has only experimental support in a newer undelete version. additionally I have the entire set of norton utilities for dos v 8.0, the last full edition. I am not familiar with that, but Wikipedia says that only from Norton Utilities for Win 95 version 2 on, FAT32 is supported. In general, I think Norton Utilities for DOS version 8 are more powerful and professional than the undelete included in MS DOS. I have really slept since running ms dos undilute. anyone have a copy of this? its only one file around 125k in size, but it is profoundly important. Please explain in more detail: Which partition type is the partition where the damaged file resides? Is it is the root directory or in a subdirectory? Do I understand correctly that it did not get deleted, but rather overwritten? If so, how big is the file by which it got overwritten? Were there other copies of the file at other locations at some time? Maybe undeleting a deleted copy of the file works better than recovering only the end of the file, now that you may have overwritten the start of the main copy by accident. If there were different copies at different places, some of which are now deleted, undeleting them can help you to recover different parts of your file. As with all delicate repair work, the best way would be using a disk image in read-only mode to avoid degrading available data further. I think that the default way of overwriting a file is to re-use the same disk area, so if you overwrote X.TXT of 125kb with another X.TXT of 5kb, you probably can recover only the 120kb at the end. In addition, if you have 4kb cluster size, you can at most recover 117kb directly, as the first 2 clusters got partially overwritten. It may help to additionally extract the new small file to a new place, with size extended to 8kb, though: It should have the missing 3kb appended... Of course working on a disk image can be a pain: Often, you do not have enough space for a raw copy of the whole partition (whole disk should not be necessary) and you may not have the tools either. Comercially, people often used Ghost for this. However, that got discontinued now. Experienced Linux users might just use the dd command, risking a copy in the wrong direction when making a typo. Both Ghost and Linux partimage have had no update for 3 years now. PING and Redo Backup and Recovery also are not very up to date. Clonezilla and Mondo Rescue seem to be the most promising options at the moment. For G4L (Ghost for Linux) English Wikipedia has no description, but German Wikipedia does... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_disk_cloning_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonezilla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondo_Rescue If you feel insecure about the process, you may want to ask somebody with disk imaging experience to make the image for you. If the partition is small, they can burn a copy of the image file on DVD which then is implicitly read-only. Otherwise, you may want to make more than one copy if you are worried about the read-only part of your repair
Re: [Freedos-user] recovering a file?
Hi Karen, what I meant is that Microsoft bought a version of DEFRAG and UNDELETE from Norton, so they are from older versions of Norton Utilities. There was no complete Norton Utilities included with MS DOS... What do you mean by there are two files now? Is the partition with the overwritten file FAT32 or is it FAT16? Are there two files to be recovered? Or do you mean one overwritten by a second file? I did understand that your file got (partially?) overwritten when using xcopy. However, I do not know how big the two files involved are. Also, I do not know if the overwrite happened in place or if the old file is still elsewhere, deleted, maybe visible to undelete but maybe not visible. If the new file was larger than the file that you want to recover and if it now uses the same area of disk as the damaged file, damage will be worst. If the disk area did not get reused by that new file and did not get reused by anything else, the damage will be smallest, but you still have to find the contents. As said, undelete might know where it is, but maybe it cannot know. Then you have to search by hand. The safest option is to make a diskimage (e.g. to a borrowed extra disk, if you do not have enough space on yours) and to spend some time searching for the contents in a safe, read-only way. What type are the two involved files? Text? How big are they? Which partition types are the on? Do you know parts of the to be recovered file, so you could search the raw disk if necessary? Regards, Eric -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] recovering a file?
I have no idea why my partitions would be fat 16.my machines are Pentium III, and I have ran the augmented edition of dos 7.1 on them since at least 2008 what I mean is that there are two different files now, in the same directory, that I wish to restore. I honestly cannot remember the last desktop computer I owned with fat 16 partitions. I shared the size of one file, the other might be about 12 k or so. On Sun, 10 Nov 2013, Eric Auer wrote: Hi Karen, what I meant is that Microsoft bought a version of DEFRAG and UNDELETE from Norton, so they are from older versions of Norton Utilities. There was no complete Norton Utilities included with MS DOS... What do you mean by there are two files now? Is the partition with the overwritten file FAT32 or is it FAT16? Are there two files to be recovered? Or do you mean one overwritten by a second file? I did understand that your file got (partially?) overwritten when using xcopy. However, I do not know how big the two files involved are. Also, I do not know if the overwrite happened in place or if the old file is still elsewhere, deleted, maybe visible to undelete but maybe not visible. If the new file was larger than the file that you want to recover and if it now uses the same area of disk as the damaged file, damage will be worst. If the disk area did not get reused by that new file and did not get reused by anything else, the damage will be smallest, but you still have to find the contents. As said, undelete might know where it is, but maybe it cannot know. Then you have to search by hand. The safest option is to make a diskimage (e.g. to a borrowed extra disk, if you do not have enough space on yours) and to spend some time searching for the contents in a safe, read-only way. What type are the two involved files? Text? How big are they? Which partition types are the on? Do you know parts of the to be recovered file, so you could search the raw disk if necessary? Regards, Eric -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] recovering a file? (fwd)
Why are you writing me privately for a list discussion? Not sure why these would be plain text either, they are wordperfect 6.0, actually, or why it impacts my use of Norton utilities 8.0 edition of unerace. let's focus on what I am asking, since we may get to the goal this way. plain text lol. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 13:57:02 +0100 From: Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de To: Karen Lewellen klewel...@shellworld.net Subject: Re: recovering a file? Hi Karen, so the files are on a FAT32 partition and are 12 kB and 125 kB in size, respectively. What type of file are they, plain text? How big are the files which overwrote them, respectively? Regards, Eric What type are the two involved files? Text? How big are they? Which partition types are the on? Do you know parts of the to be recovered file, so you could search the raw disk if necessary? -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] recovering a file? (fwd)
Well let me state publicly again that private communications are unwelcome unless I have granted you permission. Told you that before, then simply kept ignoring your private efforts...feel sure you will not make that mistake again. I have just posted a comparative question at the wp for dos forum at wordperfect universe. www.wpuniverse.com Where I am a member. Equally working the discussion through the survpc list where I have been a member for decades. Unless someone knows the answer to my spinwrite question, those lists may be more helpful than here. Others using Norton utilities v 8.0 not withstanding of course. On Sun, 10 Nov 2013, Eric Auer wrote: Hi Karen, Why are you writing me privately for a list discussion? Because I had asked several times without getting an answer, so I assumed you might want to keep those details off-list. Not sure why these would be plain text either, they are wordperfect 6.0, actually, or why it impacts my use of Norton utilities 8.0 edition of unerase. Wordperfect files according to the file tool start with the byte sequence ff 57 50 53 c4 05, in other words the byte ff, then the text WPC, then the two bytes c4 05. This information can help you to find the start of a deleted wordperfect file even when undelete cannot find the deleted directory entry of the file any more: Disk editors typically have some function to search the raw disk for contents. Also, you know that the sequence must be at the start of a cluster to be a match. Note that this is about current WordPerfect versions: You have to check on your own computer if files made by your version do start the same. According to some notes from 2001, the textual part of WordPerfect files is visible if you look at the file with a text editor, mixed with binary markup data. In other words, you should be able to recognize whether a certain cluster can be part of your to-be-recovered file. Of course all of this is quite tedious, so you typically try how far you can get with automated tools first... let's focus on what I am asking, since we may get to the goal this way. plain text lol. Sure. Keep us updated about your progress. If you can avoid writing to your disk for a while, the best way is to work slowly and carefully, maybe waiting until you are in position to get a disk image. Once you have a disk image stored in some foolproof way, you can start working on the real disk again. Because then you can work on recovery of the two files at any later moment, using that image file and no longer have to worry about work with the real disk causing further damage. Regards, Eric -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] recovering a file?
1º. Undelete command. 2º. Boot with a Linux Live CD (like knoppix), some distros include TestDisk and PhotoRec. It is very important that the restored files will be placed in an alternative storage, not in the original, media. If files have not been overwritten (i think DOS mark first name character as ? for avalable in FAT) there is possible to recover. There is also a versión for DOS: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk 3.º Under Win exists Recuva easy to use: http://www.piriform.com/recuva Sorry for my bad english. Regards. El Domingo 10 de noviembre de 2013 13:46, Karen Lewellen klewel...@shellworld.net escribió: I have no idea why my partitions would be fat 16. my machines are Pentium III, and I have ran the augmented edition of dos 7.1 on them since at least 2008 what I mean is that there are two different files now, in the same directory, that I wish to restore. I honestly cannot remember the last desktop computer I owned with fat 16 partitions. I shared the size of one file, the other might be about 12 k or so. On Sun, 10 Nov 2013, Eric Auer wrote: Hi Karen, what I meant is that Microsoft bought a version of DEFRAG and UNDELETE from Norton, so they are from older versions of Norton Utilities. There was no complete Norton Utilities included with MS DOS... What do you mean by there are two files now? Is the partition with the overwritten file FAT32 or is it FAT16? Are there two files to be recovered? Or do you mean one overwritten by a second file? I did understand that your file got (partially?) overwritten when using xcopy. However, I do not know how big the two files involved are. Also, I do not know if the overwrite happened in place or if the old file is still elsewhere, deleted, maybe visible to undelete but maybe not visible. If the new file was larger than the file that you want to recover and if it now uses the same area of disk as the damaged file, damage will be worst. If the disk area did not get reused by that new file and did not get reused by anything else, the damage will be smallest, but you still have to find the contents. As said, undelete might know where it is, but maybe it cannot know. Then you have to search by hand. The safest option is to make a diskimage (e.g. to a borrowed extra disk, if you do not have enough space on yours) and to spend some time searching for the contents in a safe, read-only way. What type are the two involved files? Text? How big are they? Which partition types are the on? Do you know parts of the to be recovered file, so you could search the raw disk if necessary? Regards, Eric -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user-- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] recovering a file? (fwd)
Dear Mr. Lewellen, Well let me state publicly again that private communications are unwelcome unless I have granted you permission. Told you that before, then simply kept ignoring your private efforts...feel sure you will not make that mistake again. you are wasting our valuable time. please go away to www.wpuniverse.com, survpc list, or wherever you feel comfortable. but go. Tom I have just posted a comparative question at the wp for dos forum at wordperfect universe. www.wpuniverse.com Where I am a member. Equally working the discussion through the survpc list where I have been a member for decades. Unless someone knows the answer to my spinwrite question, those lists may be more helpful than here. Others using Norton utilities v 8.0 not withstanding of course. On Sun, 10 Nov 2013, Eric Auer wrote: Hi Karen, Why are you writing me privately for a list discussion? Because I had asked several times without getting an answer, so I assumed you might want to keep those details off-list. Not sure why these would be plain text either, they are wordperfect 6.0, actually, or why it impacts my use of Norton utilities 8.0 edition of unerase. Wordperfect files according to the file tool start with the byte sequence ff 57 50 53 c4 05, in other words the byte ff, then the text WPC, then the two bytes c4 05. This information can help you to find the start of a deleted wordperfect file even when undelete cannot find the deleted directory entry of the file any more: Disk editors typically have some function to search the raw disk for contents. Also, you know that the sequence must be at the start of a cluster to be a match. Note that this is about current WordPerfect versions: You have to check on your own computer if files made by your version do start the same. According to some notes from 2001, the textual part of WordPerfect files is visible if you look at the file with a text editor, mixed with binary markup data. In other words, you should be able to recognize whether a certain cluster can be part of your to-be-recovered file. Of course all of this is quite tedious, so you typically try how far you can get with automated tools first... let's focus on what I am asking, since we may get to the goal this way. plain text lol. Sure. Keep us updated about your progress. If you can avoid writing to your disk for a while, the best way is to work slowly and carefully, maybe waiting until you are in position to get a disk image. Once you have a disk image stored in some foolproof way, you can start working on the real disk again. Because then you can work on recovery of the two files at any later moment, using that image file and no longer have to worry about work with the real disk causing further damage. Regards, Eric -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Kind regards Tom Ehlert +49-241-79886 -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] (no subject)
i have a dell optiplex gx280. first i found it doesn't support 2 floppys, only 1. fine. now, however, 1.44 mb diskettes format fine with ms-dos 6.22, but freedos trying to format them says: # Boot sector unreadable, disk not yet formatted Treating int 13.8 drive type 0x0 as 1440k Using drive default 1440k ( Cyl=80 Head=2 Sec=18 ) Cannot find existing format - forcing full format Please enter volume label (max. 11 chars): Full Formatting (wiping all data) Format_Floppy_Cylinder ( head=0 cylinder=0 ) sectors=18 [int 13.5] Critical error during INT disk access INT 13 status (hex): 40 Bits: seek operation failed Description: seek failed Program Terminated [Error 192] Does anyone know how to make FreeDOS format floppies on this? Again, MS-DOS does just fine, but FreeDOS forces the 13 messages above. then quits! this is a user and a development question. If any one can shed light on it it'd be nice. eufdp...@yahoo.com eufdp...@yahoo.com eufdp...@yahoo.com eufdp...@yahoo.com eufdp...@yahoo.com -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] recovering a file? (fwd)
Hi Karen, please let me clarify: My ignored question was regarding the sizes of the damaged files and the files that overwrote them and the file format of those files. Of course having important files almost lost causes a lot of stress, but asking off-list was not meant to waste your private time. I just guessed that you considered the properties of those four files private, hence I gave it a try to ask off-list, after asking on-list first. Looking forward to hear about the progress of the recovery, of course on-list. If new questions arise, please let the list know... Regards, Eric PS: Given that the involved files are in WordPerfect format, it was a good idea to ask the WP for DOS community as well. Not sure what the link to Survpc and Spinrite is, though. PPS: Apparently Norton Utilities 8 came out ca. 1994, making it sensible that Wikipedia says it had no FAT32 support, but maybe there was an update from Norton for NU 8 owners later. -- November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
