Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
> Also, I've not tried looking at the source, but I see no reason why > the ac97 drivers from linux couldn't be ported back to dos as a > general sound driver, just add sb-compatible calls to it, and you > should be all set. The problem is that there aren't just some "SB calls" used by DOS games. A DOS sound driver would have to intercept some ports provided by real SB cards. This requires either a EMM or full protected mode management inside the driver. (I guess using the EMM is less work.) -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
pcdos2k schrieb: > i don't recommend creative SB pci cards for use in DOS. it's great in windows > and linux, but it is a pain to setup in dos. Only the setup is a pain? Rest ok? > if you already have it, then go for it. here are two websites to help you > setup your SBPCI: > > http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/snddosdr.htm > http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/sndhelp.htm > > if you have to buy an old soundcard, buy ESS audiodrives (solo, maestro, > allegro) series. you only need two lines to load the driver: one each for > config.sys and autoexec.bat. you can put both in a batchfile if you use > devload.com to load the .sys driver. > > some motherboards come with onboard VIA ac97 audio with SBpro emulation, get > that. > > > > --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Santiago Almenara wrote: > >> Thanks for all your answers. >> >> >From all your mail, I understood this: >> >>- There is not such thing as "VESA audio" >>- SoundBlasters, especially SB16, are the common >> "de facto" for DOS >>system (I used to have an ISA one, so I won't be >> able to use it anymore, >>besides I think my parents threw away my 1995 computer >> after I moved). >>- Right now, there is not emulation software for it. >> (VDMsound is for >>windows). >> > > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
i don't recommend creative SB pci cards for use in DOS. it's great in windows and linux, but it is a pain to setup in dos. if you already have it, then go for it. here are two websites to help you setup your SBPCI: http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/snddosdr.htm http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/sndhelp.htm if you have to buy an old soundcard, buy ESS audiodrives (solo, maestro, allegro) series. you only need two lines to load the driver: one each for config.sys and autoexec.bat. you can put both in a batchfile if you use devload.com to load the .sys driver. some motherboards come with onboard VIA ac97 audio with SBpro emulation, get that. --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Santiago Almenara wrote: > Thanks for all your answers. > > >From all your mail, I understood this: > >- There is not such thing as "VESA audio" >- SoundBlasters, especially SB16, are the common > "de facto" for DOS >system (I used to have an ISA one, so I won't be > able to use it anymore, >besides I think my parents threw away my 1995 computer > after I moved). >- Right now, there is not emulation software for it. > (VDMsound is for >windows). > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
I'm not sure exactly what you're hunting for, but I've got lots of old sound cards (as well as other hardware, modems, video cards, and so on) and would be more than willing to send you one for the cost of shipping. They're all sitting in my work shop, and I don't have enough computers to put them in anyway. Also, I've not tried looking at the source, but I see no reason why the ac97 drivers from linux couldn't be ported back to dos as a general sound driver, just add sb-compatible calls to it, and you should be all set. I'm no assembly expert, I have minimal experience with drivers, but I have been coding for over 20 years, and generally, porting things is largely a process of compile, see what's broke, find out how to fix it, then repeat as necessary. Of course, the devil is in the details. How do you fix usb polling support on an os that has no usb support? But, barring any unsurmountable hardware issues, software porting is not all that difficult, just very very time consuming, it takes a lot of research, until you get enough knowledge/feel for how things work that you can plow through it, and even then, sometimes after putting lots and lots of work into something you throw up your hands and toss it all out, because it just can't be made to work in the current constraints you're working under. But, given enough time, and knowledge, I don't think porting the ac97 driver from linux would be impossible. On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Santiago Almenara wrote: Thanks for all your answers. From all your mail, I understood this: There is not such thing as "VESA audio" SoundBlasters, especially SB16, are the common "de facto" for DOS system (I used to have an ISA one, so I won't be able to use it anymore, besides I think my parents threw away my 1995 computer after I moved). Right now, there is not emulation software for it. (VDMsound is for windows). So I have three possibilities: Use VMware or Dosbox. Buy an old SoundBlaster 16 PCI card. Start a project to make my card work under FreeDOS/MS-DOS. 1. I don't want to use emulation software. I want real 16-bit DOS. That's why I started the thread in the first place.. Actually, it is working very well with my old software. The only problem is that I can't make sound work. 2. I've found in eBay some used SB16 PCI cards. I think I will find the DOS drivers almost everwhere, except for the Creative driver page. I am not trying to make it work under WinXP or Vista. They'll be un-configured there. Do you think they will work with my 3-year- old P4 system? Are old PCI slots compatible with the new ones? 3. I was thinking that a new project would be very interesting. However, I have neither enough technnical skills nor enough money to fund a new project. I know some programming, though. I could (a) Adapt my sound card to FreeDOS. (b) Create an ALSA DOS-wrapper to make to convert SB calls to sound cards calls. Approach (b) has this PROS: Wrapper performance issues won't be a problem because today PC's should handle DOS programs very well. ALSA's broader compatibility with sound cards. And they are always adding new cards too! ALSA (how software communicate with a sound card) and DOSbox (how games & programs communicate with a SB card) are free so you can start a new project using source code of both of them. I don't have much time or enough technnical knowledge right now. But I am sure all the information I need is out there on the net! Regards, Santiago -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Eric Auer schrieb: >>> Are old PCI slots compatible with the new ones? > > Yes. Actually for DOS, it does not even make a real > difference whether you have PCI, AGP or PCIe. You > only miss the extra speed of the latter with DOS. > This is a good topic... I scare a bit to upgrade once to a ISA- and PCI-free board in favor of PCI-Express-only slots, I think it won't take that long until PCI will completely die? What about sound compatibility in DOS then? Are there any PCI-Express cards with DOS support? Or could a PCI-e to PCI adapter work? -mr -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Hi, >>- There is not such thing as "VESA audio" There was, but nobody used it and it was only supported by PCI graphics cards with built-in sound or similarily "exotic" hardware as far as I remember. I doubt that any significant number of games supported that either. >>- SB16, are the common "de facto" for DOS Yes. >>- Right now, there is not emulation software for it. For Windows: VDMsound, Dosbox, various virtual computers Problem with Dosbox: Slow, because CPU is virtual, too. For Linux: Dosemu, Dosbox, various virtual computers Same problem as above ;-) For DOS: Only the proprietary SBLive / SBPCI drivers which are "locked" to work only with those (actually AC97) cards and VSB, but VSB only emulates SB 1.0 and supports only Covox (simple printer port adapter) and similar hardware. > There is some emulation software for PCI cards but it > needs proprietary hardware. See above. >>1. Use VMware or Dosbox. > Or Bochs, Qemu, DOSEMu, many others... I would suggest Dosemu if you have Linux, Bochs if you want maximum hardware independence, Dosbox if you want slow but adjustable CPU speed ;-). Qemu or a commercial (VMWare, Virtual PC, ...) product for more speed, but most of are bad either speed or SB16-compatibility wise. >>2. Buy an old SoundBlaster 16 PCI card. Better SBPCI or SBLive, if their virtual soundcard is okay for you. Or hardware adlib cards like with ForteMedia FM801 or (bad) CMedia chipsets: Those try to be SBPro / SB16 compatible, too, but will often fail with that on modern mainboards. But at least their Adlib / OPL3 / FM part will still work ;-). >> 3. Start a project to make my card work under FreeDOS/MS-DOS. Depends on your soundcard, lowlevel programming skills or ability to raise funds to motivate skilled people. You can use parts of VSB, Mpxplay, Bochs, Dosemu, Alsa- Project and similar components to implement the driver. >> 1. I don't want to use emulation software. Depends. Emulating nothing basically means that you either have to buy a PC with ISA or rewrite all your games. Emulating a bit means that K6 / Pentium III and FM801 generation cards will be your choice. Next step is emulating the whole soundcard (SBLive, SBPCI) then whole external hardware (Dosemu) then a your hardware (Bochs, Qemu, VMWare, Virtual PC, ...) and finally even emulating DOS (VDMSound, Dosbox) :-p >> 2. I've found in eBay some used SB16 PCI cards. Not sure about those. SBPCI / SBLive are more known to work. Not really sure about Audigy either ;-). >> Are old PCI slots compatible with the new ones? Yes. Actually for DOS, it does not even make a real difference whether you have PCI, AGP or PCIe. You only miss the extra speed of the latter with DOS. > SBLive works well on XP, Vista untested. No idea. Almost every mainboard has built-in sound with AC97 or HDA anyway, so you can use that in your Windows and the good old SBLive / ... in DOS :-). >> I could (a) Adapt my sound card to FreeDOS. DOS never uses soundcards. Only DOS games do, and you do not have their source code to adapt them... >> (b) Create an ALSA DOS-wrapper to make to convert >> SB calls to sound cards calls. There are no SB calls. Games try to access hardware, and you can intercept that (emulate hardware). Quite challenging but VSB and the SBLive / ... drivers show that it can be done even inside DOS. Note that ALSA does not run in DOS at all, it might be easier to use the MPXPLAY for DOS drivers as starting point. Note that it only supports a few modern soundcards, but it is open source so you can start my making at least MPXPLAY itself work with your soundcard :-)). Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Santiago Almenara schrieb: > Thanks for all your answers. > >>From all your mail, I understood this: > >- There is not such thing as "VESA audio" Unfortunately... >- SoundBlasters, especially SB16, are the common "de facto" for DOS >system (I used to have an ISA one, so I won't be able to use it anymore, >besides I think my parents threw away my 1995 computer after I moved). >- Right now, there is not emulation software for it. (VDMsound is for >windows). There is some emulation software for PCI cards but it needs proprietary hardware. > So I have three possibilities: > >1. Use VMware or Dosbox. Or Bochs, Qemu, DOSEMu, many others... >2. Buy an old SoundBlaster 16 PCI card. That would be a waste. Rather buy SB Live (cheap and good) or Audigy (I should have purchased this, I think it's even better and still works in DOS, but untested). >3. Start a project to make my card work under FreeDOS/MS-DOS. Yeah, PLEASE DO IT! > 1. I don't want to use emulation software. I want real 16-bit DOS. That's > why I started the thread in the first place.. Actually, it is working very > well with my old software. The only problem is that I can't make sound work. I also prefer this, works better then DOSBox. > > 2. I've found in eBay some used SB16 PCI cards. I think I will find the DOS > drivers almost everwhere, except for the Creative driver page. I am not > trying to make it work under WinXP or Vista. They'll be un-configured > there. Do you think they will work with my 3-year-old P4 system? Are old > PCI slots compatible with the new ones? SBLive works well on XP, Vista untested. Probable the same for Audigy. > 3. I was thinking that a new project would be very interesting. However, I > have neither enough technnical skills nor enough money to fund a new > project. I know some programming, though. I could (a) Adapt my sound card to > FreeDOS. (b) Create an ALSA DOS-wrapper to make to convert SB calls to sound > cards calls. > > Approach (b) has this PROS: > >- Wrapper performance issues won't be a problem because today PC's should >handle DOS programs very well. >- ALSA's broader compatibility with sound cards. And they are always >adding new cards too! >- ALSA (how software communicate with a sound card) and DOSbox (how games >& programs communicate with a SB card) are free so you can start a new >project using source code of both of them. Yep. > I don't have much time or enough technnical knowledge right now. But I am > sure all the information I need is out there on the net! It is and you can also ask here, seams Eric could theoretically write such a thing. > > > Regards, > > Santiago > > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Thanks for all your answers. >From all your mail, I understood this: - There is not such thing as "VESA audio" - SoundBlasters, especially SB16, are the common "de facto" for DOS system (I used to have an ISA one, so I won't be able to use it anymore, besides I think my parents threw away my 1995 computer after I moved). - Right now, there is not emulation software for it. (VDMsound is for windows). So I have three possibilities: 1. Use VMware or Dosbox. 2. Buy an old SoundBlaster 16 PCI card. 3. Start a project to make my card work under FreeDOS/MS-DOS. 1. I don't want to use emulation software. I want real 16-bit DOS. That's why I started the thread in the first place.. Actually, it is working very well with my old software. The only problem is that I can't make sound work. 2. I've found in eBay some used SB16 PCI cards. I think I will find the DOS drivers almost everwhere, except for the Creative driver page. I am not trying to make it work under WinXP or Vista. They'll be un-configured there. Do you think they will work with my 3-year-old P4 system? Are old PCI slots compatible with the new ones? 3. I was thinking that a new project would be very interesting. However, I have neither enough technnical skills nor enough money to fund a new project. I know some programming, though. I could (a) Adapt my sound card to FreeDOS. (b) Create an ALSA DOS-wrapper to make to convert SB calls to sound cards calls. Approach (b) has this PROS: - Wrapper performance issues won't be a problem because today PC's should handle DOS programs very well. - ALSA's broader compatibility with sound cards. And they are always adding new cards too! - ALSA (how software communicate with a sound card) and DOSbox (how games & programs communicate with a SB card) are free so you can start a new project using source code of both of them. I don't have much time or enough technnical knowledge right now. But I am sure all the information I need is out there on the net! Regards, Santiago -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
And I must add, if you have a newer notebook without DOS-compatible sound hardware then there is unfortunally no way to get sound to work. -mr Michael Reichenbach schrieb: > Hi! > > Sorry, but I think depending on what you plan to do you will not have > much fun in DOS with that card. > > But look at [1], if you are willing to pay a low price for an PCI addon > card you may get sound working. > > regards, > -mr > > [1] > http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.SoundCardChip > > Santiago Almenara schrieb: >> Hello! >> >> I am planning to install FreeDOS over a clean partition (not VMware, >> VirtualPC or similar). I've already gotten the drivers for the mouse and the >> CDROM. >> >> Is there any general driver for sound cards? >> >> My sound card is the Intel HDA. Is it possible to configure it under FreeDOS >> ? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Santiago >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> SourcForge Community >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Freedos-user mailing list >> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi, > >>> was some effort to collect funds to make people like >>> Japheth, Tom, Georg, Arkady (just examples!) do it. >> You mean the thread in bttr? > > Yes. And I mean please mention ALL URLs in ONE easy to > google in the list archive mail: DOS soundcard Wiki, > VSB ponderings Wiki, BTTR fundraising thread, (etc?) :-) This 'easy to google' is easy said. It's already it's own 'sport'. I am not convinced of the point of further improving this wiki site, enough written down. As soon someone is seriously interested I am glad to help, but until then it's a waste. >> Do you avoid the question of YOUR price? > > Well, to have lots of time, I would probably stop > other work. Then you should assume 500-2500 Euros > per month depending on charity, mood, taxes, cost > of living, insurances etc. For doing it as a side > project next to real life and normal job, making > or modding VSB into JEMM386-AC97-HDA-SB16-coolish > is simply too much work, or maybe I am too lazy. > >>> You are right that I should at least try VSB once, >> hell, YES! > > Have you tried it? Yes. >>> internal PC speaker it will still be more useable than >>> covox-only. > > Based on the assumption: Speaker is better than no > sound at all and people are no longer techy enough > to build their own Covox... > >>> Or does VSB already support PC speaker? >> Didn't work for me for anything. > > Did you try without emm386 and with real-mode games, > for example commander keen or something? What do the > VSB docs say about which features to expect in VSB? Yes, without emm386. It just freezes, guess my hardware is to new. >>> I also wonder whether it would be easier to start from >>> "scratch" by porting dosemu sound code into a JLM. >> or the DOSBox code... [or Bochs or Qemu or...] > > Depends on which one is easier to port IMHO. C would be good. > >>> would be interesting to hear from Japheth how well the >>> JLM interface is suited for simulating I/O port based, >>> ISA DMA accessible and IRQ generating devices... > >> Why not mail him? > > Feel free. Or just forward the snippet above :-) > >> Seriously, where and how he should advertise it? > > He could put some more docs on the JEMM386 homepage, > or maybe put existing JLMs along with some more docs > such as commented "how X did Y" snippets in a devel > kit download or something... Think of xcdrom32 etc? > Yet even xcdrom only uses, not simulates, IRQ/DMA. > >>> PPS: That said, MPXPLAY and Arachne are probably the >>> two most "wished to be resurrected" DOS projects now. >> The sound project not? > > Arachne and Mpxplay already do work on various hardware. > Arachne has issues with limited features, Mpxplay with > limited hardware support, but as you say, VSB is not in > use at all because it is much more limited than those. > So for practical reasons, continuing Arachne / Mpxplay > might make more people happy for less work than new VSB. > > Eric > > > > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Hi, >> was some effort to collect funds to make people like >> Japheth, Tom, Georg, Arkady (just examples!) do it. > > You mean the thread in bttr? Yes. And I mean please mention ALL URLs in ONE easy to google in the list archive mail: DOS soundcard Wiki, VSB ponderings Wiki, BTTR fundraising thread, (etc?) :-) > Do you avoid the question of YOUR price? Well, to have lots of time, I would probably stop other work. Then you should assume 500-2500 Euros per month depending on charity, mood, taxes, cost of living, insurances etc. For doing it as a side project next to real life and normal job, making or modding VSB into JEMM386-AC97-HDA-SB16-coolish is simply too much work, or maybe I am too lazy. >> You are right that I should at least try VSB once, > hell, YES! Have you tried it? >> internal PC speaker it will still be more useable than >> covox-only. Based on the assumption: Speaker is better than no sound at all and people are no longer techy enough to build their own Covox... >> Or does VSB already support PC speaker? > Didn't work for me for anything. Did you try without emm386 and with real-mode games, for example commander keen or something? What do the VSB docs say about which features to expect in VSB? >> I also wonder whether it would be easier to start from >> "scratch" by porting dosemu sound code into a JLM. > or the DOSBox code... [or Bochs or Qemu or...] Depends on which one is easier to port IMHO. C would be good. >> would be interesting to hear from Japheth how well the >> JLM interface is suited for simulating I/O port based, >> ISA DMA accessible and IRQ generating devices... > Why not mail him? Feel free. Or just forward the snippet above :-) > Seriously, where and how he should advertise it? He could put some more docs on the JEMM386 homepage, or maybe put existing JLMs along with some more docs such as commented "how X did Y" snippets in a devel kit download or something... Think of xcdrom32 etc? Yet even xcdrom only uses, not simulates, IRQ/DMA. >> PPS: That said, MPXPLAY and Arachne are probably the >> two most "wished to be resurrected" DOS projects now. > The sound project not? Arachne and Mpxplay already do work on various hardware. Arachne has issues with limited features, Mpxplay with limited hardware support, but as you say, VSB is not in use at all because it is much more limited than those. So for practical reasons, continuing Arachne / Mpxplay might make more people happy for less work than new VSB. Eric -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi! Off-list reply from me: > > Basically most of the information can be summarized by > giving the DevelSound and that other sound related URL > in the drdoswiki, so maybe you could post those along > with a summary of what can be found there in a mail to > this thread here? The summary because people might use > google to find sound-relevant mails in the list archive > and it would be good if they had a chance to be pointed > to those two wiki pages in their search results :-) Sorry, I don't see what else should I write. The link is on the list and the informations in the wiki. What else? > I agree that people who are not "into" dos will not > want to improve VSB for fun. On the other hand, there > was some effort to collect funds to make people like > Japheth, Tom, Georg, Arkady (just examples!) do it. You mean the thread in bttr? > Honestly, I think it will always be a lot of work so > you will not be able to REALLY pay any coder... Do you avoid the question of YOUR price? > You are right that I should at least try VSB once, hell, YES! > as > even if it only works without emm386 and only with the > internal PC speaker it will still be more useable than > covox-only. It was used in a time as not everyone could purchase a soundcard, but today no one will use it. > Or does VSB already support PC speaker? Didn't work for me for anything. > I also wonder whether it would be easier to start from > "scratch" by porting dosemu sound code into a JLM. or the DOSBox code... Don't know which is better but I think it is the DOSBox one. > It > would be interesting to hear from Japheth how well the > JLM interface is suited for simulating I/O port based, > ISA DMA accessible and IRQ generating devices... Why not mail him? > Maybe > you can somehow convince him to give an overview of > what and how is possible and what not. I don't know enough about the technical details, this means I am not able to ask a questions with sense. The general knowledge is in the wiki. > I mean that JLM > is a nice idea, but he never really advertizes it for > use by any programmer apart from himself it seems ;-) Yeah, we need advertisers, advertisers, advertisers!!! http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkA9L2J2gY Seriously, where and how he should advertise it? > Eric > > PS: The dosemu-JLM approach would also start with PC > speaker for output if you ask me, but could port MPX- > PLAY or even Alsa drivers for hardware. Pity that I > have nothing which works with MPXPLAY right now :-!. > PPS: That said, MPXPLAY and Arachne are probably the > two most "wished to be resurrected" DOS projects now. The sound project not? > > > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
> would be interesting to hear from Japheth how well the > JLM interface is suited for simulating I/O port based, > ISA DMA accessible and IRQ generating devices... Maybe > you can somehow convince him to give an overview of > what and how is possible and what not. I mean that JLM > is a nice idea, but he never really advertizes it for > use by any programmer apart from himself it seems ;-) Yes, and there's not much internal documentation about it. You have to get the Windows 98 DDK to do anything useful with it, because neither the functions common to Windows's VxDs nor the ones new to JLMs are documented by Japheth. The source of JLOAD (which seems to contain most of the actual services) is not (yet?) available though I also didn't request it (yet) from Japheth. Christian -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Hi! Off-list reply from me: Basically most of the information can be summarized by giving the DevelSound and that other sound related URL in the drdoswiki, so maybe you could post those along with a summary of what can be found there in a mail to this thread here? The summary because people might use google to find sound-relevant mails in the list archive and it would be good if they had a chance to be pointed to those two wiki pages in their search results :-) I agree that people who are not "into" dos will not want to improve VSB for fun. On the other hand, there was some effort to collect funds to make people like Japheth, Tom, Georg, Arkady (just examples!) do it. Honestly, I think it will always be a lot of work so you will not be able to REALLY pay any coder... You are right that I should at least try VSB once, as even if it only works without emm386 and only with the internal PC speaker it will still be more useable than covox-only. Or does VSB already support PC speaker? I also wonder whether it would be easier to start from "scratch" by porting dosemu sound code into a JLM. It would be interesting to hear from Japheth how well the JLM interface is suited for simulating I/O port based, ISA DMA accessible and IRQ generating devices... Maybe you can somehow convince him to give an overview of what and how is possible and what not. I mean that JLM is a nice idea, but he never really advertizes it for use by any programmer apart from himself it seems ;-) Eric PS: The dosemu-JLM approach would also start with PC speaker for output if you ask me, but could port MPX- PLAY or even Alsa drivers for hardware. Pity that I have nothing which works with MPXPLAY right now :-!. PPS: That said, MPXPLAY and Arachne are probably the two most "wished to be resurrected" DOS projects now. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi! > >> I am not using any kind of virtualization software for it. > > Okay so you use DOS in real hardware. > >> Do you think this card is also compatible with the Intel HDA ??? > > Depends. Modern mainboards use HDA or AC97 for sound. > Only modern DOS software like MPXPLAY can use AC97, > not sure whether any DOS software can use HDA. In any > case, your old games have BUILT-IN drivers which you > cannot replace. Either your soundcard is ISA SB16 or > SBPro compatible or it is not. There is hope, though: > > In PCI soundcards which have it, Adlib / OPL3 / FM > "music" will usually work. PCI Soundcards which try > to be SB16 / SBPro compatible in hardware often only > work on older mainboards (up to K6-2 or PentiumIII?) > for DOS, on newer boards they turn into AC97ish-only. > > However, SBLive / SBPCI typically come with a driver > which works like a small dosemu virtual computer: It > lets DOS games use your real hardware, but if they > try to access the soundcard, they are connected to a > simulation which pretends being SB16 while the real > sound is forwarded to the actually AC97 hardware of > the real SBLive / SBPCI soundcard. Only works with > games which are emm386 compatible. Luckily most are. > There is also a driver called VSB Virtual SoundBlaster > which tries to do the same simulation trick but free > (not bundled to soundcards). It only does SB 1.0 afair > and only works either without emm386 or with the QEMM > variant of it yet. Also, it can only output sound to > simple real hardware (printer port Covox, maybe also > the internal PC beeper speaker). You are over floating newbies with to many informations and by the way this VSB thing is for a non-programmer useful for almost nothing. > Still it would be a > good starting point for generic virtual soundcards: > Using code from dosemu, bochs, qemu, alsa-project etc, > one could make VSB support SB16 / SBPro simulation as > input and output to real AC97 / HDA. It could also be > converted to be MS emm386 or free JEMM386 compatible. That's a topic I summarized some time ago http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.DevelSound > That said, it would need helpers and/or money to be done. I don't think it will even happen that *someone* from *outside* the community will ever take this challenge. Even if you post at some service auction site (rentacoder or whatever) I highly doubt you can find anyone who is able to do it. So by the way, what's YOUR price? :) After you told us we can think about collecting the money. That's imho the only realistic approach. > > Eric -mr -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Hi! > I am not using any kind of virtualization software for it. Okay so you use DOS in real hardware. > Do you think this card is also compatible with the Intel HDA ??? Depends. Modern mainboards use HDA or AC97 for sound. Only modern DOS software like MPXPLAY can use AC97, not sure whether any DOS software can use HDA. In any case, your old games have BUILT-IN drivers which you cannot replace. Either your soundcard is ISA SB16 or SBPro compatible or it is not. There is hope, though: In PCI soundcards which have it, Adlib / OPL3 / FM "music" will usually work. PCI Soundcards which try to be SB16 / SBPro compatible in hardware often only work on older mainboards (up to K6-2 or PentiumIII?) for DOS, on newer boards they turn into AC97ish-only. However, SBLive / SBPCI typically come with a driver which works like a small dosemu virtual computer: It lets DOS games use your real hardware, but if they try to access the soundcard, they are connected to a simulation which pretends being SB16 while the real sound is forwarded to the actually AC97 hardware of the real SBLive / SBPCI soundcard. Only works with games which are emm386 compatible. Luckily most are. There is also a driver called VSB Virtual SoundBlaster which tries to do the same simulation trick but free (not bundled to soundcards). It only does SB 1.0 afair and only works either without emm386 or with the QEMM variant of it yet. Also, it can only output sound to simple real hardware (printer port Covox, maybe also the internal PC beeper speaker). Still it would be a good starting point for generic virtual soundcards: Using code from dosemu, bochs, qemu, alsa-project etc, one could make VSB support SB16 / SBPro simulation as input and output to real AC97 / HDA. It could also be converted to be MS emm386 or free JEMM386 compatible. That said, it would need helpers and/or money to be done. Eric -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Santiago Almenara schrieb: > Thanks Alain: > > n Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Alain M. wrote: > >> if you use VMware you will nedd another driver... VMware creates a >> Virtual machine and that means that everything is virtual. Including >> that your virtual machine will allways be the same regardless of what >> your real hw is, and will remain unchaged forever which is fery nice >> when you upgrade your hw :) >> > My problem is that I am installing FreeDOS over a clean partition in my PC. > I am not using any kind of virtualization software for it. > > >> The driver is probably Creative SoundBlaster AudioPCI >> > > > Do you think this card is also compatible with the Intel HDA ??? Dunno if I get your question right... If you use VMware then VMware will use the generic sound API of the host operating system to create the virtual sound device. So yes, any soundcard should be ok for VMware to create the virtual soundcard. But note my previous e-mail where I said that VMware's sound support in DOS is very bad. -mr > > > Bye, > > Santiago > > > > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Alain M. schrieb: > if you use VMware you will nedd another driver... VMware creates a > virtual machine and that means that everything is virtual. Including > that your virtual machine will allways be the same regardless of what > your real hw is, and will remain unchaged forever which is fery nice > when you upgrade your hw :) He said he does not plan to use VMware. > The driver is probably Creative SoundBlaster AudioPCI The AudioPCI is seen by Windows and working but it's emulation is not as good as this card would work together with the DOS driver. You need to manually switch the sound card inside the configuration file to sb16, search for it if interested. But still... The SB16 support in VMware is very bad, you can not use it for reliable sound output for existing applications. -mr > Alain > > Santiago Almenara escreveu: >> Hello! >> >> I am planning to install FreeDOS over a clean partition (not VMware, >> VirtualPC or similar). I've already gotten the drivers for the mouse >> and the CDROM. >> >> Is there any general driver for sound cards? >> >> My sound card is the Intel HDA. Is it possible to configure it under >> FreeDOS ? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Santiago >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: >> SourcForge Community >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Freedos-user mailing list >> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Hi! Sorry, but I think depending on what you plan to do you will not have much fun in DOS with that card. But look at [1], if you are willing to pay a low price for an PCI addon card you may get sound working. regards, -mr [1] http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.SoundCardChip Santiago Almenara schrieb: > Hello! > > I am planning to install FreeDOS over a clean partition (not VMware, > VirtualPC or similar). I've already gotten the drivers for the mouse and the > CDROM. > > Is there any general driver for sound cards? > > My sound card is the Intel HDA. Is it possible to configure it under FreeDOS > ? > > Thanks, > > Santiago > > > > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Thanks Alain: n Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Alain M. wrote: > if you use VMware you will nedd another driver... VMware creates a > Virtual machine and that means that everything is virtual. Including > that your virtual machine will allways be the same regardless of what > your real hw is, and will remain unchaged forever which is fery nice > when you upgrade your hw :) > My problem is that I am installing FreeDOS over a clean partition in my PC. I am not using any kind of virtualization software for it. > > The driver is probably Creative SoundBlaster AudioPCI > Do you think this card is also compatible with the Intel HDA ??? Bye, Santiago -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
if you use VMware you will nedd another driver... VMware creates a virtual machine and that means that everything is virtual. Including that your virtual machine will allways be the same regardless of what your real hw is, and will remain unchaged forever which is fery nice when you upgrade your hw :) The driver is probably Creative SoundBlaster AudioPCI Alain Santiago Almenara escreveu: > Hello! > > I am planning to install FreeDOS over a clean partition (not VMware, > VirtualPC or similar). I've already gotten the drivers for the mouse > and the CDROM. > > Is there any general driver for sound cards? > > My sound card is the Intel HDA. Is it possible to configure it under > FreeDOS ? > > Thanks, > > Santiago > > > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
