Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Hi, On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 at 17:26, Bret Johnson wrote: > For older versions of FD-KEYB and KEYB programs from other places > (including MKEYB), I was thinking of maybe doing something with an > Environment variable, similar to what FreeDOS has implemented with the > COUNTRY environment variable. I was thinking of an environment variable > either called KEYBID or KEYBLAYOUT. The contents of the variable would be > the two-letter keyboard code followed optionally by the ID. Some examples: > > KEYBLAYOUT=US > =US103 (same as US) > =GR > =GR129 (same as GR) > =GR453 > > With that, there is a way for a program to figure out what the current > keyboard layout is if it needs to know for some reason (like some of mine > do). This variable could be set in the FreeDOS installation program or by > the user if the user wants to "automate" things sufficiently. I think > adding the special FD-KEYB interface would still be valuable though, since > it provides MUCH more information than just the ID. The fact that it will > rarely get used is not a valid reason to not implement it. > Well, everytime I see something like this you need (some information that is retrieved within a single interrupt call), I always have the wild idea: someone add an internal command to FreeCOM C:\>KBLAYOUT GR129 C:\> unless someone builds up a clever DEBUG macro :) You wouldn't have it on a variable though. But I highly useful feature of FreeCOM would be precisely to store the last line of an execution into a variable (unluckily we don't have `this` in DOS): SET /L LAYOUT=KBLAYOUT Anyway, ideas are cheap, how I wish I could put my hands on this myself :) Aitor ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
> Well, a summary for both: I was thinking of providing an interface > to actually return the KeybCB, you'd have all the information (but > would be given the chance to mess around with it) :) > With that you have the entire Scancode-to-codepage (rather than > ASCII-to-scancode). Thanks, Aitor. I think that will work for what I'm doing. For older versions of FD-KEYB and KEYB programs from other places (including MKEYB), I was thinking of maybe doing something with an Environment variable, similar to what FreeDOS has implemented with the COUNTRY environment variable. I was thinking of an environment variable either called KEYBID or KEYBLAYOUT. The contents of the variable would be the two-letter keyboard code followed optionally by the ID. Some examples: KEYBLAYOUT=US =US103 (same as US) =GR =GR129 (same as GR) =GR453 With that, there is a way for a program to figure out what the current keyboard layout is if it needs to know for some reason (like some of mine do). This variable could be set in the FreeDOS installation program or by the user if the user wants to "automate" things sufficiently. I think adding the special FD-KEYB interface would still be valuable though, since it provides MUCH more information than just the ID. The fact that it will rarely get used is not a valid reason to not implement it. > Note that may take a while, I am not being able to program so > actively as I used to in the past. :( I'm in the same situation. I have way too many complicated things I want to do but have very little time to work on them. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Hello Bret! On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 05:42, Bret Johnson wrote: > I was also looking at the source code for FD-KEYB, and it looks like you > have provided several extended functions for INT 2F.ADxx that aren't listed > in RBIL. Would it be possible to add another one that would provide both > parts of the keyboard ID? > > Of course, what I would really like is a way to determine the entire > ASCII-to-Scancode map (or at least details on where the current keyboard > map is different than a standard QWERTY layout) without needing to build > lookup tables for every possibility, but that is probably not feasible. > Well, a summary for both: I was thinking of providing an interface to actually return the KeybCB, you'd have all the information (but would be given the chance to mess around with it) :) With that you have the entire Scancode-to-codepage (rather than ASCII-to-scancode). Note that may take a while, I am not being able to program so actively as I used to in the past. :( Aitor ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Thanks for the info, Aitor. It is indeed ugly, but doable. I was also looking at the source code for FD-KEYB, and it looks like you have provided several extended functions for INT 2F.ADxx that aren't listed in RBIL. Would it be possible to add another one that would provide both parts of the keyboard ID? Of course, what I would really like is a way to determine the entire ASCII-to-Scancode map (or at least details on where the current keyboard map is different than a standard QWERTY layout) without needing to build lookup tables for every possibility, but that is probably not feasible. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
You can do "something" with FD-KEYB, but not easy. First of all, you have to find the KeybCB (KEYB Control Block) which is currently in use. That's the tricky part, you have to find out in the memory data blocks associated to KEYB. Then, you can walk through the KeybCB structure: ---Header--- 000 BYTE Number of submappings (n+1) described in the block General submapping is counted, and is usually numbered as 0. 001 BYTE Number of additional planes (m) that are globally defined for the whole keyb control block. The total number of planes is m+2 (there are two implicit ones, see TABLE 3) The maximum number of planes is 10 (that is, m=8) 002 BYTE Character to be used as decimal separator character by the driver when using this layout. 0 when the default character (usually .) should be used. 003 BYTE Current particular submapping in use (1 to n) 004 WORD MCB-ID of the KeybCB, only if the KeybCB resides in a MCB that must be deallocated if the KeybCB will no longer be used. 006 DWORD PTR=> Next KeybCB KeybCBs may be organized in a linked list, if the keyboard driver supports more than one. Set to 00:00 if there are no more KeybCBs. 010 WORD ID Word of the current KeybCB (see ofs 012) 012 8 BYTES 0-padded string of the name with which the KeybCB has been loaded. It is usually a two-letter identifier, such as UK, GR or SP. KeybCBs are usually loaded as single "keyboard layouts" identified by a short string and an identifier word in case there are several models appliable to the same string ID. (for the identifier word, see ofs 010) Aitor On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 00:20, Bret Johnson wrote: > > how should a KEYB scancode->keycode driver react to copdepage > > changes, and how are these communictated? > > Well, first of all the keyboard driver should detect the current Code Page > on installation and not just assume one. And, the KEYB program should work > with multiple code pages when it can. If DISPLAY.SYS is installed, you can > use INT 2F.AD00 and INT 2F.AD02 to detect the current Code Page. If > DISPLAY.SYS is not installed, you can use INT 21.6601. If neither of these > work, you should assume code page 437 (which is the default on most > systems). > > DISPLAY.SYS calls INT 2F.AD81h when the Code Page is changed to inform > KEYB so it can change its mapping. > > > why would any other TSR need insight into KEYB installed/not > > installed state or a pointer to private tables? > > Unless the tables are in a "public" format, the data contained in the > tables is irrelevant. E.g., MS KEYB and FreeDOS KEYB tables do not use the > same format. I'm not sure about any of the other DOS's out there, but > wouldn't necessarily expect them to be the same as MS. > > The reason that other TSR's (at least mine) may need to know what the > keyboard mapping looks like is because they need to do an > "ASCII-to-Scancode" lookup. That is, the program allows the user to > provide an ASCII code as an input parameter (since ASCII is far easier for > the user to enter than a scancode), but the program itself uses the > scancode. > > My SCANCODE program, e.g., "types" scancodes automatically (it is useful > for creating "macros"), but the user can tell SCANCODE what to "type" with > ASCII codes. To do this, SCANCODE needs to know what scancode(s) to type > (what physical key(s) on the keyboard to press) to generate the ASCII code > the user wants to see. For example, if you tell SCANCODE to type a "Z" it > will press the shift-key, press the "z", release the "z", then release the > shift-key. But, it needs to know where the Z key is on the keyboard to do > that, and the Z key is in different places (different scancodes) depending > on the keyboard layout and, in some cases, the code page. So, it has > internal tables of a bunch of different keyboard layouts so it knows how to > "type" the different ASCII characters. It would be nice if SCANCODE could > somehow "ask" the KEYB program what its tables look like, but that's not > really feasible. I realize you may think "typing" scancodes may be a > "silly" thing to do, but there are cases where it works and ASCII codes do > not (e.g., SCANCODE is able to "type" into older DOS-based versions of > Windows, and can actually "type" things like PrintScreen or Pause or the > multimedia keys or the Sleep/WakeUp/ShutDown keys that some keyboards have). > > Another kind of TSR that needs to know is a TSR that has some sort of > "hot-key" to enter into the TSR as it is running to make configuration > changes. My CLOCK and SERIAL programs do this. TSR's usually (though not > always) monitor scan codes for hot-keys rather than ASCII codes, but the > user usually enters the
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
> how should a KEYB scancode->keycode driver react to copdepage > changes, and how are these communictated? Well, first of all the keyboard driver should detect the current Code Page on installation and not just assume one. And, the KEYB program should work with multiple code pages when it can. If DISPLAY.SYS is installed, you can use INT 2F.AD00 and INT 2F.AD02 to detect the current Code Page. If DISPLAY.SYS is not installed, you can use INT 21.6601. If neither of these work, you should assume code page 437 (which is the default on most systems). DISPLAY.SYS calls INT 2F.AD81h when the Code Page is changed to inform KEYB so it can change its mapping. > why would any other TSR need insight into KEYB installed/not > installed state or a pointer to private tables? Unless the tables are in a "public" format, the data contained in the tables is irrelevant. E.g., MS KEYB and FreeDOS KEYB tables do not use the same format. I'm not sure about any of the other DOS's out there, but wouldn't necessarily expect them to be the same as MS. The reason that other TSR's (at least mine) may need to know what the keyboard mapping looks like is because they need to do an "ASCII-to-Scancode" lookup. That is, the program allows the user to provide an ASCII code as an input parameter (since ASCII is far easier for the user to enter than a scancode), but the program itself uses the scancode. My SCANCODE program, e.g., "types" scancodes automatically (it is useful for creating "macros"), but the user can tell SCANCODE what to "type" with ASCII codes. To do this, SCANCODE needs to know what scancode(s) to type (what physical key(s) on the keyboard to press) to generate the ASCII code the user wants to see. For example, if you tell SCANCODE to type a "Z" it will press the shift-key, press the "z", release the "z", then release the shift-key. But, it needs to know where the Z key is on the keyboard to do that, and the Z key is in different places (different scancodes) depending on the keyboard layout and, in some cases, the code page. So, it has internal tables of a bunch of different keyboard layouts so it knows how to "type" the different ASCII characters. It would be nice if SCANCODE could somehow "ask" the KEYB program what its tables look like, but that's not really feasible. I realize you may think "typing" scancodes may be a "silly" thing to do, but there are cases where it works and ASCII codes do not (e.g., SCANCODE is able to "type" into older DOS-based versions of Windows, and can actually "type" things like PrintScreen or Pause or the multimedia keys or the Sleep/WakeUp/ShutDown keys that some keyboards have). Another kind of TSR that needs to know is a TSR that has some sort of "hot-key" to enter into the TSR as it is running to make configuration changes. My CLOCK and SERIAL programs do this. TSR's usually (though not always) monitor scan codes for hot-keys rather than ASCII codes, but the user usually enters the hot-key as an ASCII code. The current versions of CLOCK and SERIAL simply assume the keyboard is a standard US QWERTY layout, but I'm in process of changing them to be "keyboard-layout aware"). To do this, they need to know the current keyboard layout so they can do the "ASCII-to-Scancode" lookup using the internal tables. If the KEYB program doesn't identify itself using INT 2F.AD80, the TSR's don't know what the current keyboard layout is, and the user will get frustrated because the keys they are supposed to press on the keyboard are in the wrong places. What this boils down to is making it easier on the user, trying to make things as "automatic" as possible, even though it can make it MUCH harder on the programmer. BTW, this brings up another issue I've been trying to figure out regarding keyboard layouts. There are two different parts to the keyboard layout identification -- there is a two-letter code (for example, US = United States), but most keyboards also have a code number to go along with that (for the US keyboard, it is 103). But there are also cases where the there is more than one keyboard layout for the same two-letter code. An example of this is Bulgaria (BG) which has three different layouts with three different numbers (103, 241, & 442) even though they are all "BG". Unfortunately, the standard KEYB interface (which MKEYB doesn't use) only tells you the "BG" part and doesn't tell you the number part. Does anybody know of a way to automatically/programmatically determine the number part of the keyboard ID from KEYB? ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
>>> Another one is that MKEYB doesn't >>> report itself correctly as a "standard" keyboard driver to other >>> programs which can cause some compatibility problems. >> no one complained so far. ever. in 15+ years. > Well, then consider this your first complaint. I don't use MKEYB for this > and other reasons. >> how would this report look like? > Look at RBIL, INT 2F.AD80 and related calls. > As Aitor alluded to, KEYB interacts with the various other things > in DOS (COUNTRY, DISPLAY, CHCP, NLSFUNC, ...). If KEYB doesn't > report itself through that mechanism the other DOS functions may not > work correctly. admittedly, I'm a german user, who had never anything then an US-ASCII keyboard, never used anything of the DISPLAY, CHCP, NLSFUNC family *ever* and so I am certainly not experianced on these things. how should a KEYB scancode->keycode driver react to copdepage changes, and how are these communictated? why would any other TSR need insight into KEYB installed/not installed state or a pointer to private tables? > But, it's usually only a problem if you try to > switch between languages or keyboard layouts or code pages on the > same computer, which very few people do. even then, I only see 'changing between keyboard translation and no translation' which MKEYB should support. > It's also a problem for other programs (including other TSR's) that > need to know the current keyboard layout for some reason (which some of mine > do). why would they want to know this? just pass around scancodes, and MKEYB will be happy. Tom ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
>> Another one is that MKEYB doesn't >> report itself correctly as a "standard" keyboard driver to other >> programs which can cause some compatibility problems. > no one complained so far. ever. in 15+ years. Well, then consider this your first complaint. I don't use MKEYB for this and other reasons. > how would this report look like? Look at RBIL, INT 2F.AD80 and related calls. As Aitor alluded to, KEYB interacts with the various other things in DOS (COUNTRY, DISPLAY, CHCP, NLSFUNC, ...). If KEYB doesn't report itself through that mechanism the other DOS functions may not work correctly. But, it's usually only a problem if you try to switch between languages or keyboard layouts or code pages on the same computer, which very few people do. It's also a problem for other programs (including other TSR's) that need to know the current keyboard layout for some reason (which some of mine do). ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
> Another one is that MKEYB doesn't > report itself correctly as a "standard" keyboard driver to other > programs which can cause some compatibility problems. no one complained so far. ever. in 15+ years. how would this report look like? > MKEYB may work just fine for you, though. ;) Tom ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
On 10/1/2021 6:58 AM, Harry wrote: Hello Eric, thanks for the continued help! I booted the PC with FD13LGCY.iso (CD-ROM) and afterwards selected "No - return to DOS" A:\>MKEYB SG (and hit enter) Bad command or filename "MKEYB" Am I doing something wrong? You probably don't have a proper PATH for DOS to find the MKEYB program... Ralf -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Hello Eric, thanks for the continued help! I booted the PC with FD13LGCY.iso (CD-ROM) and afterwards selected "No - return to DOS" A:\>MKEYB SG (and hit enter) Bad command or filename "MKEYB" Am I doing something wrong? Best regards, Harry Am 29.09.2021 16:34, schrieb Eric Auer: Hi Harry, you do not rename any files with mkeyb, you simply run the command with the name of the layout as the command line option after a space: MKEYB space SG enter :-) I have no experience with modifications of the ISO, but I would expect it to be mainly for install and live CD purposes and ask you what your preferred layout is at each boot - no fixed setting. install=MKEYB SG That would probably be something like install=c:\dos\mkeyb.exe SG or the same with a: instead of c: if you use a real or virtual (CD, USB, etc.) boot floppy, but yes, the install line is what you would use to set the keyboard layout inside config sys. You can also, probably easier, just put MKEYB SG in your autoexec bat file, or if the location is not in the PATH then of course c:\dos\mkeyb.exe SG or similar. Not sure what you mean by mkeyb.de and that Language: de,858 or sg,858 line? Might be a sort of config file for the config/autoexec creation mechanism of the installer, so I guess Jerome or Mateusz can tell us more? Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Hi, On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 21:39, Eric Auer wrote: > > This also relates to why your COUNTRY= line does not only > mention a country (for example for knowing whether you use > number style 1,000.00 or rather 1.000,00) but also mentions > the codepage, which can be relevant for currency signs etc. > > However, the COUNTRY=... setting is something managed by the > kernel. You do not need to load any drivers for it. It also > controls things such as whether to expect Y/N or J/N for yes > no questions etc. Of course, that only happens when the apps > take the effort to ask the kernel which settings are active, > many apps just do everything English USA style themselves. > Well, the codepage mentioned in COUNTRY does not force all device drivers to call its codepage (NLSFUNC will). You can specify a codepage in Country, but your display driver will still be in the default codepage. You always need some driver (at least DISPLAY) to do it right. Ah, those good old days where you did not, and things like "españa.txt" would be seen as ESPA¹A.TXT and you wondered why. Aitor ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
> While MKEYB is small, there's a lot of things it doesn't do that the > larger KEYB program does that you may find you need or at least be > useful. > > One of them is the manipulation and correct handling of different > Code Pages as Aitor indicated. Another one is that MKEYB doesn't > report itself correctly as a "standard" keyboard driver to other > programs which can cause some compatibility problems. MKEYB may work > just fine for you, though. For context: The codepage topic relates to loading DISPLAY and using MODE to load fresh screen fonts to be able to use other umlauts and other special characters than your default BIOS font would provide. Codepage-aware keyboard drivers can see when you change codepages on the fly and adjust keys for it. More simple drivers just have a standard expectation which font users of which keyboard layout will use, for example regarding which character has the Euro sign in the font. This also relates to why your COUNTRY= line does not only mention a country (for example for knowing whether you use number style 1,000.00 or rather 1.000,00) but also mentions the codepage, which can be relevant for currency signs etc. However, the COUNTRY=... setting is something managed by the kernel. You do not need to load any drivers for it. It also controls things such as whether to expect Y/N or J/N for yes no questions etc. Of course, that only happens when the apps take the effort to ask the kernel which settings are active, many apps just do everything English USA style themselves. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
While MKEYB is small, there's a lot of things it doesn't do that the larger KEYB program does that you may find you need or at least be useful. One of them is the manipulation and correct handling of different Code Pages as Aitor indicated. Another one is that MKEYB doesn't report itself correctly as a "standard" keyboard driver to other programs which can cause some compatibility problems. MKEYB may work just fine for you, though. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Hello, On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 16:36, Eric Auer wrote: > Not sure what you mean by mkeyb.de and that > Language: de,858 or sg,858 line? Might be a > sort of config file for the config/autoexec > creation mechanism of the installer, so I > guess Jerome or Mateusz can tell us more? > > I suppose he means about the specific codepage to be changed? If you need to handle codepages, you need a keyb that does handle that. I am not sure how MKEYB handles that, you may want to use (FD-)KEYB if the codepage change will occur dynamically (e.g. if DISPLAY is used to change the codepage), at the cost of being a bit larger than MKEYB, Best, Aitor ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Hi Harry, you do not rename any files with mkeyb, you simply run the command with the name of the layout as the command line option after a space: MKEYB space SG enter :-) I have no experience with modifications of the ISO, but I would expect it to be mainly for install and live CD purposes and ask you what your preferred layout is at each boot - no fixed setting. > install=MKEYB SG That would probably be something like install=c:\dos\mkeyb.exe SG or the same with a: instead of c: if you use a real or virtual (CD, USB, etc.) boot floppy, but yes, the install line is what you would use to set the keyboard layout inside config sys. You can also, probably easier, just put MKEYB SG in your autoexec bat file, or if the location is not in the PATH then of course c:\dos\mkeyb.exe SG or similar. Not sure what you mean by mkeyb.de and that Language: de,858 or sg,858 line? Might be a sort of config file for the config/autoexec creation mechanism of the installer, so I guess Jerome or Mateusz can tell us more? Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Thank's a lot Eric! 1. Does that mean I could rename MKYB.de to MKYB.ch and replace "Language: de, 858" with "Language: sg, 850" and remaster the ISO? 2. And putting the following line to autoexec.bat (but can only find autoexec.drf and autoexec.dbx in the FD13LGCY.iso) install=MKEYB SG Thank's a lot! Harry Am 28.09.2021 16:41, schrieb Eric Auer: Hi Harry, Sorry for the long silence and thank's a lot for your feedbacks! I crafted a DOS622 bootfloppy which does correctly select my Swiss German keyboard. country=041,850,a:\dos\country.sys install=a:\dos\keyb.com sg,,a:\dos\keyboard.sys The first line is the same as in FreeDOS, but the easiest way to get Swiss German keyboard in FreeDOS is to use MKEYB as in MKEYB SG You can simply load that in your autoexec or with install=... and it does not even need a country sys file at all :-) Of course, using country= has the advantage that date, time and number formats etc. also get set to German style by that. You can also use one of our more comprehensive keyboard drivers, but for Swiss German, MKEYB should be easiest and uses the smallest amount of resident driver memory. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Hi Harry, > Sorry for the long silence and thank's a lot for your feedbacks! I > crafted a DOS622 bootfloppy which does correctly select my Swiss > German keyboard. > country=041,850,a:\dos\country.sys > install=a:\dos\keyb.com sg,,a:\dos\keyboard.sys The first line is the same as in FreeDOS, but the easiest way to get Swiss German keyboard in FreeDOS is to use MKEYB as in MKEYB SG You can simply load that in your autoexec or with install=... and it does not even need a country sys file at all :-) Of course, using country= has the advantage that date, time and number formats etc. also get set to German style by that. You can also use one of our more comprehensive keyboard drivers, but for Swiss German, MKEYB should be easiest and uses the smallest amount of resident driver memory. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Sorry for the long silence and thank's a lot for your feedbacks! I
crafted a DOS622 bootfloppy which does correctly select my Swiss German
keyboard.
It did take much much longer than I expected :)
---Config.sys---
country=041,850,a:\dos\country.sys
install=a:\dos\keyb.com sg,,a:\dos\keyboard.sys
Hopfully this helps.
Thank's in advance.
Harry
Am 24.09.2021 19:13, schrieb Bret Johnson:
{harr...@vtxmail.ch}
{.ch is the country code top-level domain (ccTLD) for Switzerland in
the Domain Name System of the Internet.}
I understand that, but that really has nothing to do with what
keyboard layout he wants to use. There are two "standard" keyboard
layouts for Switzerland, a French one (code SF) and a German one (code
SG or SD). They are both QWERTZ, but some of the other punctuation
characters are in different places. That is often the case with
different keyboard layouts -- many times the Latin alphabetic
characters are the same (usually QWERTY, QWERTZ, or AZERTY) but the
rest of the keyboard can be VERY different. People can also design
their own custom keyboard layouts if they want, but that can create
all sorts of compatibility problems.
He'll also need to worry about the Code Page, especially if he ever
needs to use the Euro symbol. He may also need to worry about the
Country settings for sorting and punctuation. And if he ever wants to
print from DOS, there's a huge can of worms related to Printer Code
Pages (which FreeDOS really hasn't addressed at all).
In addition, just because his e-mail address is from Switzerland
doesn't necessarily mean that he uses either of the Swiss keyboard
layouts. There are also several "International" keyboard layouts that
might work well for Switzerland. Even having a Swiss email address
doesn't necessarily mean that he actually lives in Switzerland (he
probably does, but that's not guaranteed).
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Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
> {harr...@vtxmail.ch}
>
> {.ch is the country code top-level domain (ccTLD) for Switzerland in
> the Domain Name System of the Internet.}
I understand that, but that really has nothing to do with what keyboard layout
he wants to use. There are two "standard" keyboard layouts for Switzerland, a
French one (code SF) and a German one (code SG or SD). They are both QWERTZ,
but some of the other punctuation characters are in different places. That is
often the case with different keyboard layouts -- many times the Latin
alphabetic characters are the same (usually QWERTY, QWERTZ, or AZERTY) but the
rest of the keyboard can be VERY different. People can also design their own
custom keyboard layouts if they want, but that can create all sorts of
compatibility problems.
He'll also need to worry about the Code Page, especially if he ever needs to
use the Euro symbol. He may also need to worry about the Country settings for
sorting and punctuation. And if he ever wants to print from DOS, there's a
huge can of worms related to Printer Code Pages (which FreeDOS really hasn't
addressed at all).
In addition, just because his e-mail address is from Switzerland doesn't
necessarily mean that he uses either of the Swiss keyboard layouts. There are
also several "International" keyboard layouts that might work well for
Switzerland. Even having a Swiss email address doesn't necessarily mean that
he actually lives in Switzerland (he probably does, but that's not guaranteed).
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Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Dear Bret:
There is, but you'll need to provide a little more detail -- specifically which
keyboard layout you're wanting to use (presumably one that matches your
country, language/dialect, and physical keyboard layout).
{harr...@vtxmail.ch}
{.ch is the country code top-level domain (ccTLD) for Switzerland in the
Domain Name System of the Internet.}
{The QWERTZ or QWERTZU keyboard is a typewriter and keyboard layout
widely used in Central Europe.}
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTZ
--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/
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Re: [Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Harry: > Is there a way to change the Keyboard layout as well? There is, but you'll need to provide a little more detail -- specifically which keyboard layout you're wanting to use (presumably one that matches your country, language/dialect, and physical keyboard layout). International support in DOS is complicated -- it can take a combination of several DOS commands to setup the computer correctly. Do you know which keyboard layout you're wanting to implement? If not, you can just start by stating which country/language you want to support (some countries/languages have multiple keyboard layouts to select from). ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] changing keyboard layout after booting from CD-ROM
Hello list, I booted FreeDOS (FD1.3 lgcy) from CD(without installing it to hdd) and selected "my" language:) Is there a way to change the Keyboard layout as well? Thank's a lot for any help! Harry ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
