Glen says:
I have to admit, this seems like a really difficult multi-objective
selection method.
Yes, yes, yes! But, to stick with the analogy, it is not in-principle more
difficult than distinguishing chemical compounds. Admittedly, Chemistry had
quite a head start as a formal science.
Sarbajit Roy wrote at 09/19/2012 08:21 PM:
(aside) In addition to my faith hat, I also have a
designer/manufacturer of programmable logic controller hat.
I wish more people had those hats. I see lots of silly and useless hats
... I often feel like I live on the outskirts of a permanent fashion
But, if this synthetic task is so difficult, what makes the
reductionists believe they're right? If nobody can actually build a
belief from a collection of actions, what trickiness or delusion allows
them to confidently assert that beliefs are actions? What (premature?)
conviction allows you to
Are you talking about this one?
Qualitative Math for the Social Sciences
http://www.powells.com/biblio/62-9780415444828-1
$140 on amazon is still a little much for me. I'll see if any local
libraries carry it.
glen wrote at 09/20/2012 09:13 AM:
Re: Lee's book: There are lots of
FWIW Glen, you may find that your local library is willing to order any
book their patrons desire... Los Alamos (albeit a wealthy county) is
very generous about this... I get the impression that county/local
libraries are desperate to remain relevant and one method is to make
sure their
Yep. I've already broached the subject with my county library. Their
criteria center around whether the new thing (book, CD, whatever) would
be of use to the average library user. So, most of the stuff I want
doesn't qualify. Apparently math isn't very useful to my fellow
citizens. ;-)
But I
Glen,
I am honestly confused at this point about what you are looking for in your
main question. To be experiencing something or reacting to something
requires two entities with a relationship between them. How do you separate
that table from the experience of that table? Well, one is the table,
ERIC P. CHARLES wrote at 09/19/2012 07:05 AM:
I am honestly confused at this point about what you are looking for in your
main question.
Hm. I feel like we've wandered down some semantic rat hole. Let me
restate my main question:
What is the difference between thought and action?
The
Dear Glen
You've confused me even more now.
So I'll just come to your last para
I don't want want to be involved. 8^) I'm trying to simplify the
discussion down to an actionable point. Which is why I'll ask again:
If faith is a collection of actions, what actions constitute faith?
Praxis
Sarbajit Roy wrote at 09/19/2012 08:30 AM:
I don't want want to be involved. 8^) I'm trying to simplify the
discussion down to an actionable point. Which is why I'll ask again:
If faith is a collection of actions, what actions constitute faith?
Praxis ?.
Heh, you didn't provide enough
Sorry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxis_(Eastern_Orthodoxy)
Orthodox writers use the term praxis to refer to what others, using
an English rather than a Greek word, call practice of the faith,
especially with regard to ascetic and liturgical life.
Praxis is key to Eastern Orthodox
We need a sequence of actions that might actually cause a person to have
faith.
2 examples. a) way cults work, and b) ways a magnet works.
In a (religious) cult, the newbies are first encouraged to join in on
simple actions like clapping. This is a psychological device to get
them to
Thanks for the clarity on praxis. That word has too much baggage for
me to be comfortable with it. Using it would beg people to talk about
stuff unrelated to Nick's assertion.
Sarbajit Roy wrote at 09/19/2012 10:46 AM:
We need a sequence of actions that might actually cause a person to have
Glen said:
In [Sarbajit's example of cult indoctrination], there is still a missing piece
between the
social comfort
brought by the increasing participation in various activities versus
some belief ascribed to the cult members. I would posit that a
mole/infiltrator could participate in a cult
ERIC P. CHARLES wrote at 09/19/2012 02:54 PM:
But Glen, when you talk about the infiltrator, or the person
paying lip-service, you are just appealing to a larger pattern of
behavior.
Aha!! Excellent! So, tell me how to classify the patterns so that one
pattern is just lip service and the
On 9/19/12 4:29 PM, glen wrote:
I.e. some parts of our classifying predicate will be continuous and
some will be discrete. I have to admit, this seems like a really
difficult multi-objective selection method.
Use tabu search (https://projects.coin-or.org/metslib), encoding the
transition rate
Glen:
(aside) In addition to my faith hat, I also have a
designer/manufacturer of programmable logic controller hat.
To design an artificial life form (android / zombie ...) capable of
successfully passing among humans in a religious (faith) setting you
would probably need tons of memory (or
: [FRIAM] faith, zombies, and crazy people
Glen:
(aside) In addition to my faith hat, I also have a designer/manufacturer
of programmable logic controller hat.
To design an artificial life form (android / zombie ...) capable of
successfully passing among humans in a religious (faith) setting you
Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith, zombies, and crazy people
Glen:
(aside) In addition to my faith hat, I also have a designer/manufacturer
of programmable logic controller hat.
To design an artificial life form (android / zombie ...) capable of
successfully passing among humans in a religious
Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith, zombies, and crazy people
Arlo Barnes wrote at 09/17/2012 04:03 PM:
But what if the compressible class turns out to be the same as the
uncompressible class?
Well, even
ERIC P. CHARLES wrote at 09/18/2012 07:46 AM:
Trying to be a sophisticated Nick:
Faith doesn't underlies reality, but it underlies all experience. And by
experience, I mean it underlies all the way you act and react towards
reality. This doesn't give you a theory of everything, but it might
It's something
else ... perhaps a type of action distinguishable from other types of
action ... perhaps something called state, which is distinguishable
from process?
Well, if we are being literalists, it could be construed as the chemical
actions taking place in a brain, or perhaps
Arlo Barnes wrote at 09/18/2012 10:45 AM:
It's something
else ... perhaps a type of action distinguishable from other types of
action ... perhaps something called state, which is distinguishable
from process?
Well, if we are being literalists, it could be construed as the chemical
actions
sophistry? Or Sollipsism. I have to get my insults
straight, here.
From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of
Robert Holmes
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:31 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith, zombies
ERIC P. CHARLES wrote at 09/15/2012 07:51 AM:
the next step in a discussion like this is for someone
to ask you what evidence you have that any actual thing has more actor
status
than a thermostat.
My evidence is, like *all* evidence, subject to interpretation. Unlike
most people, I don't
But what if the compressible class turns out to be the same as the
uncompressible class? It seems the only way to tell is to test every
possible case, as you say in your second paragraph.
What it comes down to, though, is that, again as you say, you are talking
about knowledge, how people model
Arlo Barnes wrote at 09/17/2012 04:03 PM:
But what if the compressible class turns out to be the same as the
uncompressible class?
Well, even if that's true in principle, as long as there is a predicate
to slice them all into two sets: 1) really really hard to compress vs.
2) pretty easy to
: Re: [FRIAM] faith, zombies, and crazy people
Arlo Barnes wrote at 09/17/2012 04:03 PM:
But what if the compressible class turns out to be the same as the
uncompressible class?
Well, even if that's true in principle, as long as there is a predicate to
slice them all into two sets: 1
Message-
From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On
Behalf Of glen
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:48 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith, zombies, and crazy people
** **
Arlo Barnes wrote at 09/17/2012 04:03 PM
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:19 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith, zombies, and crazy people (was America and the
Middle East: Murder in Libya | The Economist)
You guys clearly know too much about philosophy and not enough about
Here's some grounds for denying the non-zombie's account of his zombieness:
the non-zombie is mad or pig-headed or over-familiar with solipsism. Or a
combination of all three.
—R
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Nicholas Thompson
nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote:
Robert,
snipSo, there
Of Robert Holmes
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:31 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith, zombies, and crazy people (was America and the
Middle East: Murder in Libya | The Economist)
Here's some grounds for denying the non-zombie's account of his
On 09/14/2012 06:56 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
For me, consciousness is a point of view, and any telic system has a point
of view. Zombies are telic systems, no?
That's a great question. I would answer no. Zombies cannot be telic
(as I understand that word, of course) because they are
] faith, zombies, and crazy people (was America and the
Middle East: Murder in Libya | The Economist)
On 09/14/2012 06:56 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
For me, consciousness is a point of view, and any telic system has a
point of view. Zombies are telic systems, no?
That's a great question. I
On 09/15/2012 06:59 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
Wow! This Zombie thing is WAY more complicated than I thought it was.
Although I haven't read any Kant first hand, I hear him lurking in the
background. For me, a thermostat/furnace system is a telic system. It acts
in such a way as to
Glen of course the next step in a discussion like this is for someone
to ask you what evidence you have that any actual thing has more actor status
than a thermostat. Answering this questions adequately requires 1) taking into
account the complexity of what a thermostat accomplishes and 2)
15, 2012 9:49 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] faith, zombies, and crazy people (was America and the
Middle East: Murder in Libya | The Economist)
On 09/14/2012 06:56 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
For me, consciousness is a point of view, and any
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Robert Holmes rob...@robertholmes.orgwrote:
You guys clearly know too much about philosophy and not enough about
zombies. Your notion that there is a single type of zombie has long been
discredited.
Not to mention the original meaning, which is somebody who
Subject: [FRIAM] faith, zombies, and crazy people (was America and the
Middle East: Murder in Libya | The Economist)
On 09/14/2012 06:56 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
For me, consciousness is a point of view, and any telic system has a
point of view. Zombies are telic systems, no?
That's a great
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