[Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi everyone,

This morning while writing down notes for my wrestling games I just
realized there might be a potential problem in the offing with some of
these wrestlers. That is that many of these guys often changed their
ring names several times throughout there career. Especially, when
changing promotions.

For instance, current hard core legend Mick Foley. Those of you who
watch TNA would know him as Mick Foley. That's the current name the
guy is using on screen. However, those of us, like myself, who have
been around know him by a string of past career names that include
Cactus Jack, Jack Foley, Dude Love, Mankind, Mick Foley, etc. This is
a problem for a game author like myself who can only pick one
name and move set for this person.

The problem is further compounded I think when we are dealing with
people who don't know that Cactus Jack, Mankind, Dude Love, and Mick
Foley are the same guy. I can see potential questions like, why don't
you add Cactus Jack to the game?

Then, I would have to reply he is in the game, but he is using a
different alias like Mick Foley. This could become quite confusing for
gamers I think. Any suggestions how to handle this?

And before someone mentions it let me just say I'm not writing a game
editor. That's too much work, too much of a pain, and the game is open
source anyway. My feeling is since it is open source, you get the
source code, it is your option to edit and recompile the game however
you want. This really negates any need for an external editor in my
personal opinion.

In either case weather or not there is an editor there has to be a way
to determine or decide which name should get used in the default
roster. My vote is simply to use the most current name used by the
wrestler, or the one directly used by the WWE. That to me makes sense
because the game would be more or less up to date as far as the
wrestler's career goes.

In some cases I realise it is a no brainer what name should get used.
For example, recently retired world heavy wait champion, Edge, had a
number of less well known names before signing onto the WWE roster in
the late 90's. Once he became a WWE wrestler Alex Copeland would
forever be known to his fans as Edge. As I said in a case like that
its a clear cut case of what name to use. However, others like Mick
Foley have had so many names over the last 20 years or so it is hard
for me to pick. Any thoughts?

Cheers!

---
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Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Milos Przic

  Hi Tom,
  Yes, I have a suggestion that can be implemented well into the game 
without much work, that we can see in Tournament. When you choose a wrestler 
you can have an info option or something like that, that would display 
something about the wrestler. So you can have a wrestler with his current 
alias and in the info tell the gamer that he had previous ones and what they 
were.

  Best regards!
 Milos Przic
msn: milos.pr...@gmail.com
skype: Milosh-hs
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:39 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers



Hi everyone,

This morning while writing down notes for my wrestling games I just
realized there might be a potential problem in the offing with some of
these wrestlers. That is that many of these guys often changed their
ring names several times throughout there career. Especially, when
changing promotions.

For instance, current hard core legend Mick Foley. Those of you who
watch TNA would know him as Mick Foley. That's the current name the
guy is using on screen. However, those of us, like myself, who have
been around know him by a string of past career names that include
Cactus Jack, Jack Foley, Dude Love, Mankind, Mick Foley, etc. This is
a problem for a game author like myself who can only pick one
name and move set for this person.

The problem is further compounded I think when we are dealing with
people who don't know that Cactus Jack, Mankind, Dude Love, and Mick
Foley are the same guy. I can see potential questions like, why don't
you add Cactus Jack to the game?

Then, I would have to reply he is in the game, but he is using a
different alias like Mick Foley. This could become quite confusing for
gamers I think. Any suggestions how to handle this?

And before someone mentions it let me just say I'm not writing a game
editor. That's too much work, too much of a pain, and the game is open
source anyway. My feeling is since it is open source, you get the
source code, it is your option to edit and recompile the game however
you want. This really negates any need for an external editor in my
personal opinion.

In either case weather or not there is an editor there has to be a way
to determine or decide which name should get used in the default
roster. My vote is simply to use the most current name used by the
wrestler, or the one directly used by the WWE. That to me makes sense
because the game would be more or less up to date as far as the
wrestler's career goes.

In some cases I realise it is a no brainer what name should get used.
For example, recently retired world heavy wait champion, Edge, had a
number of less well known names before signing onto the WWE roster in
the late 90's. Once he became a WWE wrestler Alex Copeland would
forever be known to his fans as Edge. As I said in a case like that
its a clear cut case of what name to use. However, others like Mick
Foley have had so many names over the last 20 years or so it is hard
for me to pick. Any thoughts?

Cheers!

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Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Jacob Kruger
OTOH, what if he also changed his wrestling behaviour/identity with the 
different nicknames?


As in the character in the game is more related to the screen persona at the 
time of using that name, as opposed to the actual person who was 
performing/carrying out that role - would, to be honest though - be a bit 
strange to have two of his persona's fighting against each other.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:39 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers



Hi everyone,

This morning while writing down notes for my wrestling games I just
realized there might be a potential problem in the offing with some of
these wrestlers. That is that many of these guys often changed their
ring names several times throughout there career. Especially, when
changing promotions.

For instance, current hard core legend Mick Foley. Those of you who
watch TNA would know him as Mick Foley. That's the current name the
guy is using on screen. However, those of us, like myself, who have
been around know him by a string of past career names that include
Cactus Jack, Jack Foley, Dude Love, Mankind, Mick Foley, etc. This is
a problem for a game author like myself who can only pick one
name and move set for this person.

The problem is further compounded I think when we are dealing with
people who don't know that Cactus Jack, Mankind, Dude Love, and Mick
Foley are the same guy. I can see potential questions like, why don't
you add Cactus Jack to the game?

Then, I would have to reply he is in the game, but he is using a
different alias like Mick Foley. This could become quite confusing for
gamers I think. Any suggestions how to handle this?

And before someone mentions it let me just say I'm not writing a game
editor. That's too much work, too much of a pain, and the game is open
source anyway. My feeling is since it is open source, you get the
source code, it is your option to edit and recompile the game however
you want. This really negates any need for an external editor in my
personal opinion.

In either case weather or not there is an editor there has to be a way
to determine or decide which name should get used in the default
roster. My vote is simply to use the most current name used by the
wrestler, or the one directly used by the WWE. That to me makes sense
because the game would be more or less up to date as far as the
wrestler's career goes.

In some cases I realise it is a no brainer what name should get used.
For example, recently retired world heavy wait champion, Edge, had a
number of less well known names before signing onto the WWE roster in
the late 90's. Once he became a WWE wrestler Alex Copeland would
forever be known to his fans as Edge. As I said in a case like that
its a clear cut case of what name to use. However, others like Mick
Foley have had so many names over the last 20 years or so it is hard
for me to pick. Any thoughts?

Cheers!

---
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Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Milos,

Thanks. That does seam like a good suggestion. I might have a section
in the bio called aliases and for someone like Mick Foley it would
then list his popular aliases like Cactus Jack, Dude Love, Mankind,
etc. Then someone would easily be able to see that wrestler wrestled
under a variety of different names and styles in the past. While we
are at it we could even include the wrestlers real name as well as
their popular ring names. In the case of Mick Foley that is his real
name, but for many years he used aliases. This would certainly help
those of us who either don't know a lot of wrestling
background/history, or those who couldn't see that it was the same guy
with different entrance music, name, and outfit.

Cheers!


On 4/19/11, Milos Przic milos.pr...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Tom,
Yes, I have a suggestion that can be implemented well into the game
 without much work, that we can see in Tournament. When you choose a wrestler
 you can have an info option or something like that, that would display
 something about the wrestler. So you can have a wrestler with his current
 alias and in the info tell the gamer that he had previous ones and what they
 were.
Best regards!
   Milos Przic
 msn: milos.pr...@gmail.com
 skype: Milosh-hs

---
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Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Phil Vlasak

Hi Thomas,
Info about  the different wrestlers and their names could be handled in the 
html instructions such as you did for the MOTA creatures.


- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
To: Milos Przic milos.pr...@gmail.com; Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers



Hi Milos,

Thanks. That does seam like a good suggestion. I might have a section
in the bio called aliases and for someone like Mick Foley it would
then list his popular aliases like Cactus Jack, Dude Love, Mankind,
etc. Then someone would easily be able to see that wrestler wrestled
under a variety of different names and styles in the past. While we
are at it we could even include the wrestlers real name as well as
their popular ring names. In the case of Mick Foley that is his real
name, but for many years he used aliases. This would certainly help
those of us who either don't know a lot of wrestling
background/history, or those who couldn't see that it was the same guy
with different entrance music, name, and outfit.

Cheers!


On 4/19/11, Milos Przic milos.pr...@gmail.com wrote:

   Hi Tom,
   Yes, I have a suggestion that can be implemented well into the game
without much work, that we can see in Tournament. When you choose a 
wrestler

you can have an info option or something like that, that would display
something about the wrestler. So you can have a wrestler with his current
alias and in the info tell the gamer that he had previous ones and what 
they

were.
   Best regards!
  Milos Przic
msn: milos.pr...@gmail.com
skype: Milosh-hs


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Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Jacob,

Smile. That's exactly my point, and why there is an issue to
solve/settle. Its not just that these wrestlers changed there music,
outfits, and ring names they changed their style of wrestling,
alliance, and personality to fit the character.

For instance, in the 1980's I grew up admiring Hulk Hogan. Throughout
the 80's he played a face character, practically reached super hero
status, and was one of my childhood favorites. However, when he quit
the WWF and whent over to WCW he changed his entire persona to that of
a heel character called Haliwood Hogan. He died his hair, changed his
wrestling tights, and I honestly didn't like his new character very
much. Years later he would return to the WWE and resume his former
Hulk Hogan roll. These things happen all the time in professional
wrestling and really all depends on the story and circomstances of the
promotion at the time, and what wrestling federation he/she is
wrestling for.

Another example is Sheri Martel. Throughout the 80's she came to fame
wrestling through the AWA, NWA, and the WWF under the ring name Sheri
Martel. After she won the WWF Women's championship she renamed herself
Sinsational Sheri. A year later after she lost the title to Rockin'
Robin she once again completely changed her onscreen roll. She started
dressing up in a witch outfit, called herself Scary Sheri, and played
the part of a heel who kept interfearing in Rockin' Robin's matches in
the hopes of getting her to drop the title to one of Sheri's heel
allies. After Randy Savage won the King of the Ring match he named
himself Macho King and she renamed herself Queen Sheri. You get the
idea. changing rolls is nothing new for wrestlers

It is in a way nothing more than a soap opra with people beating each
up inside a square ring. Todays mortal enemy is tomorrows best friend.
Todays best friend is tomorrows main event grudge match. It makes
writing an all stars wrestling game complicated because rolls change
from year to year and week to week. That's why most wrestling games
out there are pretty specific who is in it and what year it takes
place.

Games like THQ's WWE Raw vs Smackdown games are released on a yearly
basis. They showcase the top performers for that year, and your
matches are played out using the actual site locations as WWE Raw and
Smackdown for that specific year. If a performer is a heel at the time
the game is made he/she is a heel. If they turn face the next year
they will return in the new game as a face character. Although, the
games will allow you to change his/her status in game as well.

To be honest this is exactly what I was planning to do before people
began bombarding me into the ground for this or that wrestler to be in
the game. It is alot easier to take the top 20 performers of the year
and write a game around their stories than it is to add 100 wrestlers
in the game and have to waid through different identities, storylines,
and decide which one will make the cut or just get the boot.

On 4/19/11, Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za wrote:
 OTOH, what if he also changed his wrestling behaviour/identity with the
 different nicknames?

 As in the character in the game is more related to the screen persona at the
 time of using that name, as opposed to the actual person who was
 performing/carrying out that role - would, to be honest though - be a bit
 strange to have two of his persona's fighting against each other.

 Stay well

 Jacob Kruger
 Blind Biker
 Skype: BlindZA
 '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

---
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Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Jacob Kruger
All you say makes sense, so good luck on trying to decide what will work 
best...smile


FWIW, in even my old sighted days, my favourites of all time were the 
Undertaker, his brother Kane - who often enough was on the other side - and 
another, less famous guy, Eddie Guerrero - who always made his entrance in a 
flashy type car - who's cousin is the little one - Ray Mysterio Junior.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers



Hi Jacob,

Smile. That's exactly my point, and why there is an issue to
solve/settle. Its not just that these wrestlers changed there music,
outfits, and ring names they changed their style of wrestling,
alliance, and personality to fit the character.

For instance, in the 1980's I grew up admiring Hulk Hogan. Throughout
the 80's he played a face character, practically reached super hero
status, and was one of my childhood favorites. However, when he quit
the WWF and whent over to WCW he changed his entire persona to that of
a heel character called Haliwood Hogan. He died his hair, changed his
wrestling tights, and I honestly didn't like his new character very
much. Years later he would return to the WWE and resume his former
Hulk Hogan roll. These things happen all the time in professional
wrestling and really all depends on the story and circomstances of the
promotion at the time, and what wrestling federation he/she is
wrestling for.

Another example is Sheri Martel. Throughout the 80's she came to fame
wrestling through the AWA, NWA, and the WWF under the ring name Sheri
Martel. After she won the WWF Women's championship she renamed herself
Sinsational Sheri. A year later after she lost the title to Rockin'
Robin she once again completely changed her onscreen roll. She started
dressing up in a witch outfit, called herself Scary Sheri, and played
the part of a heel who kept interfearing in Rockin' Robin's matches in
the hopes of getting her to drop the title to one of Sheri's heel
allies. After Randy Savage won the King of the Ring match he named
himself Macho King and she renamed herself Queen Sheri. You get the
idea. changing rolls is nothing new for wrestlers

It is in a way nothing more than a soap opra with people beating each
up inside a square ring. Todays mortal enemy is tomorrows best friend.
Todays best friend is tomorrows main event grudge match. It makes
writing an all stars wrestling game complicated because rolls change
from year to year and week to week. That's why most wrestling games
out there are pretty specific who is in it and what year it takes
place.

Games like THQ's WWE Raw vs Smackdown games are released on a yearly
basis. They showcase the top performers for that year, and your
matches are played out using the actual site locations as WWE Raw and
Smackdown for that specific year. If a performer is a heel at the time
the game is made he/she is a heel. If they turn face the next year
they will return in the new game as a face character. Although, the
games will allow you to change his/her status in game as well.

To be honest this is exactly what I was planning to do before people
began bombarding me into the ground for this or that wrestler to be in
the game. It is alot easier to take the top 20 performers of the year
and write a game around their stories than it is to add 100 wrestlers
in the game and have to waid through different identities, storylines,
and decide which one will make the cut or just get the boot.

On 4/19/11, Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za wrote:

OTOH, what if he also changed his wrestling behaviour/identity with the
different nicknames?

As in the character in the game is more related to the screen persona at 
the

time of using that name, as opposed to the actual person who was
performing/carrying out that role - would, to be honest though - be a bit
strange to have two of his persona's fighting against each other.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'


---
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All messages

Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread shaun everiss

tom this is just a thought.
But why not write a database maybe a text file with all the names in 
it or whatever.

maybe have sertain headings, etc.
If people want to update the database or if you care to then it will 
not be a problem.
Ofcause you will have to have it easy enough that people could put it 
in notepad.

I don't imagine it would have to be that much.
At 02:39 a.m. 20/04/2011, you wrote:

Hi everyone,

This morning while writing down notes for my wrestling games I just
realized there might be a potential problem in the offing with some of
these wrestlers. That is that many of these guys often changed their
ring names several times throughout there career. Especially, when
changing promotions.

For instance, current hard core legend Mick Foley. Those of you who
watch TNA would know him as Mick Foley. That's the current name the
guy is using on screen. However, those of us, like myself, who have
been around know him by a string of past career names that include
Cactus Jack, Jack Foley, Dude Love, Mankind, Mick Foley, etc. This is
a problem for a game author like myself who can only pick one
name and move set for this person.

The problem is further compounded I think when we are dealing with
people who don't know that Cactus Jack, Mankind, Dude Love, and Mick
Foley are the same guy. I can see potential questions like, why don't
you add Cactus Jack to the game?

Then, I would have to reply he is in the game, but he is using a
different alias like Mick Foley. This could become quite confusing for
gamers I think. Any suggestions how to handle this?

And before someone mentions it let me just say I'm not writing a game
editor. That's too much work, too much of a pain, and the game is open
source anyway. My feeling is since it is open source, you get the
source code, it is your option to edit and recompile the game however
you want. This really negates any need for an external editor in my
personal opinion.

In either case weather or not there is an editor there has to be a way
to determine or decide which name should get used in the default
roster. My vote is simply to use the most current name used by the
wrestler, or the one directly used by the WWE. That to me makes sense
because the game would be more or less up to date as far as the
wrestler's career goes.

In some cases I realise it is a no brainer what name should get used.
For example, recently retired world heavy wait champion, Edge, had a
number of less well known names before signing onto the WWE roster in
the late 90's. Once he became a WWE wrestler Alex Copeland would
forever be known to his fans as Edge. As I said in a case like that
its a clear cut case of what name to use. However, others like Mick
Foley have had so many names over the last 20 years or so it is hard
for me to pick. Any thoughts?

Cheers!

---
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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Jacob,

Well, unfortunately Eddie Guerrero died a few years back which brings
up another issue I've been wondering how to handle. That is some of
these wrestlers have passed away either through drug over doses,
murder, or some other kind of accident. I've always maintained that it
is a bit unrealistic to include someone to the roster who passed away,
and therefore couldn't realistically wrestle on any current roster.

I know THQ, who produces most of the WWE games, had a similar issue
when Chris Benoit died. They were about to release an update to their
WWE Raw VS Smackdown game when he was murdered. In the end they
decided to just remove his character completely from the game, and
took him off the roster of playable characters. Some people objected
to that, and others felt THQ made the right call. I'm finding myself
in a similar situation now. No matter what I do its going to be the
wrong decision for somebody. However, this is in part made up for a
custom wrestler feature so if I don't include a wrestler someone
really wants because he or she passed away they can add him/her to the
unofficial roster.

On 4/19/11, Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za wrote:
 All you say makes sense, so good luck on trying to decide what will work
 best...smile

 FWIW, in even my old sighted days, my favourites of all time were the
 Undertaker, his brother Kane - who often enough was on the other side - and
 another, less famous guy, Eddie Guerrero - who always made his entrance in a
 flashy type car - who's cousin is the little one - Ray Mysterio Junior.

 Stay well

 Jacob Kruger
 Blind Biker
 Skype: BlindZA
 '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

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Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi,

The reason is it wouldn't work. Just adding names to a text file
wouldn't really work, because its not just the names that change. As I
explained earlier on list when these wrestlers change there identities
they often change their signature moves, change their finishers,
change their alliance, change their outfits, and generally their
personality too.

For example, Mick Foley who I mentioned earlier on list. As Cactus
Jack he played a heel who was suppose to be a wild texan with a hard
core fighting style that included foreign objects like barbed whire,
two-by-fours, and a number of moves specific to Cactus Jack. After he
joined the WWF Mick Foley created a totally new persona called
Mankind. Unlike Cactus Jack Mankind was suppose to be a mentally
disturbed individual who lived in boiler rooms, talked to rats, and
supposably had a split personality as well. Instead of the barbed wire
and big Texan persona of Cactus Jack Mankind's most memorable feature
is his sock puppet, Socko, that added comity to his interviews. Plus
after Mankind won a match he use to stick a dirty sock in the defeated
aponents mouth which was funny. The weirdest part of Mankind was his
split personality where he'd talk to himself in the voice of Mankind
and then change to Dude Love and back again. It was as different from
Cactus Jack as you could get. Mankind was a completely different
character with his own unique moves and fighting style. So just
changing his name means nothing unless you are ready to update the
character profile in earnest.

Cheers!


On 4/19/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote:
 tom this is just a thought.
 But why not write a database maybe a text file with all the names in
 it or whatever.
 maybe have sertain headings, etc.
 If people want to update the database or if you care to then it will
 not be a problem.
 Ofcause you will have to have it easy enough that people could put it
 in notepad.
 I don't imagine it would have to be that much.

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Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers

2011-04-19 Thread Jacob Kruger

Yeah, I know.

Was just mentioning his name, but it's really up to you who you'll include 
by default...smile


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Multiple Names for Wrestlers



Hi Jacob,

Well, unfortunately Eddie Guerrero died a few years back which brings
up another issue I've been wondering how to handle. That is some of
these wrestlers have passed away either through drug over doses,
murder, or some other kind of accident. I've always maintained that it
is a bit unrealistic to include someone to the roster who passed away,
and therefore couldn't realistically wrestle on any current roster.

I know THQ, who produces most of the WWE games, had a similar issue
when Chris Benoit died. They were about to release an update to their
WWE Raw VS Smackdown game when he was murdered. In the end they
decided to just remove his character completely from the game, and
took him off the roster of playable characters. Some people objected
to that, and others felt THQ made the right call. I'm finding myself
in a similar situation now. No matter what I do its going to be the
wrong decision for somebody. However, this is in part made up for a
custom wrestler feature so if I don't include a wrestler someone
really wants because he or she passed away they can add him/her to the
unofficial roster.

On 4/19/11, Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za wrote:

All you say makes sense, so good luck on trying to decide what will work
best...smile

FWIW, in even my old sighted days, my favourites of all time were the
Undertaker, his brother Kane - who often enough was on the other side - 
and
another, less famous guy, Eddie Guerrero - who always made his entrance 
in a

flashy type car - who's cousin is the little one - Ray Mysterio Junior.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'


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list,
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