Since you need a community to work on it, I'd suggest that you ask in the
Hadoop project to see if there are interested parties.
--- Noel
-Original Message-
From: 吴治国
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2022 4:36
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Need some help to bring ambari
I've been aware of Guacamole for several years. Definitely keen to see it join
the ASF.
--- Noel
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I believe that we can call this vote, now, and request that the Board
install Jukka as the new PMC Chair.
--- Noel
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Over the past month, there has been a lot of discussion within the
Incubator. We have voted in a new PMC Chair, Jukka Zitting, who will be
rotating out of the PMC Chair position of JackRabbit.
There has been a lot of discussion over the future of the Incubator. Under
one proposal, the Board
+1
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Ross Gardler wrote:
I'm ready to vote, but Chris said it looks like the remaining folks
(including me) that were in the running have aligned beyond the
following nominee: Where is the mail from Noel saying he is no longer
standing? Have I missed something?
There wasn't one. I was traveling
I intend to nominate Noel J. Bergman
I will leave my hat in the ring, but also note that a number of people have
expressed that not only is it time to vote for the Incubator PMC Chair, but
also that it is time for new, different, energy and ideas in that role. So
those people would certainly
Based on the current discussions for radically redefining the Incubator, I
propose William A Rowe, Jr. for the new Incubator PMC Chair.
Between Bill and Chris Mattman, they are the leading forces behind the
proposed re-org, and I feel that, Bill would be the more experienced choice,
and hope that
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I intend to nominate Noel J. Bergman
I will leave my hat in the ring ...
But as others will have noted, if the proposed re-organization is to move
forward, I personally recommend Bill Rowe for the role, or Chris Mattman if
Bill won't take it. That new Incubator
Chris,
I will note that should I be elected into this role, I will state that
I don't intend to be in it very long as I don't intend for it to exist
much longer.
I spoke with Bill this evening, and have indicated to him that I'd like for
you and he to already start working on the re-org
I need to say that your [Jukka] work here is great. Thanks.
+1
one doesn't need to be a PMC chair to invest some time in podling review and
followup. :-)
:-)
--- Noel
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When did you resign?
I didn't. As intimated by Benson, and mentioned in a prior Board report,
there has been discussion on the private list of rotating the PMC Chair.
I've had it for many years, and a number of people expressed the view that a
shot of new blood might be beneficial.
The call
Robert Burrell Donkin asked:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
A call for nominations for Incubator PMC Chair was started on the
private@
list. The nomination process should be open to the Incubator community.
What qualities does a good Incubator Chair need? - Robert
IMO:
- Ability
Should the current chair be forced to resign
I'm not going to make an issue of it.
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This belongs on general@ ...
A call for nominations for Incubator PMC Chair was started on the private@
list. The nomination process should be open to the Incubator community.
--- Noel
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 11:30
To: priv...@incubator.apache.org
Apparently Benson feels that it is unreasonable to expect at
least one Incubator PMC member to actually read the one report
that this PMC sends on. Yes, I'm irritated.
To be clear, *I* read every word of every Board report that we send on. I
don't take issue with whatever else you wrote. I
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
The ASF is not about code; it is about community. If a community forks,
or otherwise emerges around a codebase, we are not accepting the CODE: we
are accepting the COMMUNITY.
One company is not a community.
As you've otherwise acknowledged, I
Joe Schaefer wrote:
Let's stop discussing this issue in the abstract
Good idea. Lets be more specific, and put together something actionable.
Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever
This has been an issue. Perhaps we need to put some teeth in the
A number of substantive issues came up during the past month.
First, and although it was raised on the private list and therefore details
won't be part of the public report, we advise the Board that there is
substantial discussion regarding changing the Incubator VP, which has been
held for
The ASF is not about code; it is about community. If a community forks, or
otherwise emerges around a codebase, we are not accepting the CODE: we are
accepting the COMMUNITY.
And it seems to me that if we are to say that a COMMUNITZY is not permitted to
participate despite use of code that is
Sam,
My personal perspective is that incubation shouldn't generally take more than
a year.
The problem is with small communities. What do you suggest with projects that
are functional, but just barely have a critical mass, or not quite even?
my feeling is that there needs to be an
We've all been aware that the Incubator has been growing more than
graduating, over the years. Last month, Sam started a discussion regarding
being more proactive and pushing projects out of the nest, basically one way
or another, after a year. A real issue is pushing out those really ready to
Our next report is due in December, not October.
Nu? So where is it?
--- Noel
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Some reports missing: HISE, Kato, Wave.
If they are not posted by tomorrow AM, the report is going in without them.
--- Noel
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PLEASE NOTE!
From the ASF Board:
For now on, all reports to the board for review/inclusion at the
board meetings will now be due 1 WEEK before the meeting. Reports
submitted late will be declined and you'll need to resubmit the
next month.
This means that Incubator reports really need
Notwithstanding the fact that members of the Board are active within the
Incubator, there are no issues requiring Board attention or intervention.
We are, however, recognizing that we've had growth issues of our own. As
David Crossley pointed out, he made mistakes last month related to the
Most of the general discussion on the Incubator list over the past month was
how to improve the usability of the Incubator web-site.
S4 (Simple Scalable Streaming System) -- a general-purpose, distributed,
scalable, partially fault-tolerant, pluggable platform that allows
programmers to easily
Weird ... that was posted to my output queue on Monday. :-( No big deal.
Just a clarification that Wave wasn't missing.
--- Noel
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Most of the general discussion on the Incubator list over the past month was
how to improve the usability of the Incubator web-site.
S4 (Simple Scalable Streaming System) -- a general-purpose, distributed,
scalable, partially fault-tolerant, pluggable platform that allows
programmers to easily
Most of the general discussion on the Incubator list over the past month was
how to improve the usability of the Incubator web-site.
S4 (Simple Scalable Streaming System) -- a general-purpose, distributed,
scalable, partially fault-tolerant, pluggable platform that allows
programmers to easily
On most months, I have to chase down missing reports.
ETCH, HAMA, HCATALOG (managed to do a release, though), KATO, MANIFOLDCF
(also managed to do a release, though), RAT and WAVE all failed to report
this month.
RAT was discussing graduation, but still needs to report. Two others were
active
The flood of Hadoop related projects continues with new Incubator projects:
* HMS (now Ambari), a monitoring, administration and lifecycle management
project for Apache Hadoop clusters
* Accumulo, a sorted, distributed key/value store based on Google's
BigTable design, and built on top of
No... Knowing Noel, he was not opening anything. He was speaking to
general principles about how the Incubator works.
+1
--- Noel
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For additional
I'd like to add a note to the template asking the initial contributors
to note their favorite email address.
Or at least the one they intend to use/expose.
when the inevitable 'subscribe' requests for the private list come along,
the mentor moderating the private list can identify the
Doug Meil wrote:
I think that the ASF and ASF incubator leadership should consider it a
priority to foster such communication.
We do. I, in particular, tend to do it --- and have on occassion been
criticized for trying to foster project collaboration and/or merger.
BUT ...
The Incubator
, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Henri Yandell flame...@gmail.com wrote:
+1 (non-binding).
Note that they've not signed off on their copyright item, so we should
delete the svn tree or get that signed off before hand.
Hen
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com
wrote:
I see
Bluesky was retired by vote of the Incubator PMC. The project just never
managed to adjust to the ASF's community-orientation.
Olio likewise seems prime for retirement.
HISE (Human Tasks for WS-BPEL) again failed to report (that was an issue in
February as well). Activity has picked up
I have added it now for OGNL.
it was a mentor failure - the project has written its
report and ask mentors to sign it and add it to the wiki.
And we mentors all forgot.
Too late for this month. Please add it to the August wiki page, and update
date it as necessary.
--- Noel
OGNL, Olio (2 cycles in a row), Rave, VXQuery (also two cycles in a row)
are all missing.
We (Rave) completed three monthly reports (April, May, June) and were
moved to the March, June, September, December reporting schedule.
Is there another list we need to update?
I went by the roster on
Er, have you explicitly told the Bluesky lists that the repo is about to
be deleted?
Alternatively, we can simply turn off write access [to] ensure it's not
actively developed, but that it's available.
Are we deleting or moving to an attic-type section?
--- Noel
OGNL, Olio (2 cycles in a row), Rave, VXQuery (also two cycles in a row) are
all missing.
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I see no development in 18 months. Is it time to terminate?
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Bill Stoddard wrote:
I would like to see this vote suspended until we can get some feedback
from Jack Cai re whether he is willing to be a mentor.
I concur that we should suspend this vote pending the outcome of the
project's attempt to reboot.
--- Noel
Samuel Kevin wrote:
Most of the developers of BlueSky project are students. As you all know,
students come when they join in school and go after they graduate. So
the active developers are around 10. Like we used to have 5 committers,
but now we only have 2 committers in active.
As others
Joe Schaefer wrote:
Chen Liu wrote:
We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache Software
Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community.
You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF subversion
repository, using ASF mailing lists, as
I don't have Internet access right now, except for ssh to my mail server.
Has anyone told the BlueSky project about this vote, yet?
I'm +1 for retirement, but feel that part of the process for retiring a
project should be notice to the project that retirement is being considered
and acted upon.
Chris,
This is related to why it also matters how you get and verify your browser.
If someone were to successfully distribute a build of Firefox or Chrome with
bogus root certs, they could potentially do a lot of damage.
--- Noel
+1
--- Noel
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+1
--- Noel
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It seems to me to be a bad idea to distribute keys with releases. And don't
we already have some ASF-wide policy for managing keys?
--- Noel
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For
If that is the recommendation, check with the community to see if there is any
pushback, and depending on result we'll vote on it.
Thanks for taking the time to get this going. :-)
--- Noel
-Original Message-
From: Christian Grobmeier [mailto:grobme...@gmail.com]
Sent:
@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Bluesky status and plans (was: Monthly reports missing)
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote:
I know that it is early (as in the earliest that the meeting could possibly
happen), but we're late. BeanValidation, Bluesky, Isis, and Wave are all
Sam Ruby wrote:
All past struggles aside, if there are no credible plans to produce an
ASF project after 2.5 years, then IMHO it is time to begin the process
of terminating the incubation of this podling.
I'm not arguing that point. As I had replied, we can start the dormancy
discussion
What is preventing Etch from graduating?
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The Incubator PMC now totals 143 members, with some additional requests
(joining and a resignation) pending. Recent changes include Peter Royal and
Phil Steitz (pending) dropping off; and Shane Curcuru, Srinath Perera,
Nicolas Lalevee, Marvin Humphrey, Michael McCandless, Nigel Daley, Tommaso
There are some which indicate that their sole impediment to graduation is
community size. Has there been any consideration of the Hadoop TLP picking
them up as sub-projects?
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I know that it is early (as in the earliest that the meeting could possibly
happen), but we're late. BeanValidation, Bluesky, Isis, and Wave are all
missing from the Wiki.
--- Noel
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+1
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Andrew Rist wrote:
I would also point out that this is not a case of moving from Copy Left
to Permissive licensing. In this case, the code base is moving from
dual-licensing (Copy Left and Proprietary) to Permissive.
I made the same point elsewhere. Also, while I appreciate clarification
Sam Ruby wrote:
Unless I see pushback that merits waiting further, I plan to call for
a vote approximately 24 hours from now (noon EDT).
Please count my +1 vote. I will be traveling, and I don't know what my
Internet access will be during the voting timeframe.
There are a lot of issues to
Michael Meeks wrote:
Robert Weir wrote:
But I know with certainty that we've fixed things that LO has missed.
(I'm talking patents, not the MPL/LGPL dependency issues).
You seem to assert that you have patent remediation patches for
problems that others are unaware of, that you can
Joe Schaefer wrote:
I don't see how this has any bearing on the vote. The ASF doesn't require
entities to disclose whether or not any particular contribution includes a
patent license.
We do, however, have the patent clause to ensure that contributed code comes
with license for any necessary
Michael Meeks wrote:
I rest my case about FUD. It seems hard for me to reconcile your
statement with the emphasis around things happening transparently
Then let me be equally clear. I've learned not to discuss *potential* legal
issues on public lists before first consulting counsel. Akin to
Michael Meeks wrote:
It still leaves something you can't answer though: whether it is Rob's
understanding of IBM's intention to camouflage such changes or to flag
them all openly and clearly.
Separating the above from what seems to be the underlying concern.
Ultimately with a suite of 8+
Michael,
I agree that the ethical thing to do is to inform partners of such matters,
although I still don't know how to guarantee it. And generally speaking, you
might want to treat the specifics of such matters in similarly sensitive manner
as to how you would carefully handle any potential
Ian Lynch wrote:
It's no good saying if this or if that because we are
where we are. If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle :-).
Exactly.
This is really the crux of all the discussions. Is it better to maximise
the
development resource through cooperation or is it better to have two
Marvin Humphrey wrote:
The code bases are already divergent and it would be very difficult to
reconcile them. To make Apache OOo upstream from LO would mean one
of two things
OK, let's clarify for sensibility: Apache would be upstream (licensing
acting as a diode), but not THE upstream.
As
Christian Grobmeier wrote:
I sent this to infra, but I have been told the incubator chair should
handle this.
I've made the changes via the command line interface.
I wish there were some consistency on this when accounts are setup, but that's
something we can discuss with infra. Oft-times
Christian Grobmeier wrote:
Out of Office? Naw. As long as I have decent Internet access (and no
firewall
keeping me from SSH), I'm in the office.
And I was even pretty sure somebody said you were on honeymoon -
No, we actually haven't had time for other than a couple of get-away
Robert Weir wrote:
- Community development, due to the need to develop and
coordinate/collaborate with current and anticipated
downstream consumers of the project, as well as potentially
forging bi-directional collaborations.
we would benefit from having incubation mentors with noted
Dave Fisher wrote:
Your donation will go directly towards helping this project. Some of the
ways
in which your funds might be used include:
• Hiring independent developers to work with OpenOffice.org.
• Paying for participation at trade shows and conferences.
• Paying for
Simon Phipps wrote:
unless either the Apache project or the LibreOffice project do extremely
substantial refactoring very fast, both projects will be using the same
code for a long time. If we all do things right, this will be in the
context of actual shared repositories.
That sounds like a
It seems Apache will have a destination of value in OpenOffice.org. There
should be a way to monetize this, similar to how Mozilla monetized their
default search engine choice with Google.
That'll spawn a whole other set of debates.
For example, ASF could take bids and award a contracts to
Simon Phipps wrote:
I agree on both counts. My sense continues to be that the best outcome
would
be close to my original proposal[1], although that got substantial
push-back
from some quarters.
So let's address the push-back.
The proposal, as I understand it, is for OpenOffice to exist at
Sam Ruby wrote:
my suggestion is that we not focus on the differences we have.
Let's instead focus on how we can maximize the areas we have
in common.
Isn't that what:
Core development would happen at the ASF. Everyone: IBMer, TDFer, and
other alike would be welcomed to contribute to
Keith Curtis wrote:
This AL2 is not within the spirit of the tradition of this codebase
because it is invoking a proprietary clause.
The Apache License is a fully permissive, inclusive, non-viral, Open Source
license. You are entirely incorrect.
AL2 will make ongoing code sharing with LO
Sam Ruby wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Core development would happen at the ASF. Everyone: IBMer, TDFer, and
other alike would be welcomed to contribute to the core code, under
our license, and to incorporate their own downstream changes under
their own license. From that perspective
Volker Merschmann wrote:
I've been told that Oracle and TDF *were* in discussions but
that the demands by TDF were sufficiently unpalatable to Oracle
as to prevent any sort of agreement... IBM may have strongly
suggested the ASF as a backup, but we were the runner-up in
a sense. Taxes
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
For the record; I am opposing this contribution and will vote -1,
unless there is a clear indication that TDF/LO is behind it 100% and
the two projects are on a trajectory of a merge.
I urge TDF to participate, but their participation should not be a
prerequisite for us
Drew,
Quick note: I'll be staffing the TDF/LibreOffice table at SELF
(Southeast Linux Fest) in Spartanburg, South Carolina this coming
weekend.
I can't make it for this weekend, but keep me in mind for future, local,
activities.
--- Noel
Michael,
Conclusion:
I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the OO.o project
in the long run.
Supporting statements:
They are sufficiently confident and comfortable with their model that
attempting to negotiate over changing any core aspect of it (such as the
Cor Nouws wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote (06-06-11 23:51)
Conclusion:
I do not believe the ASF is likely to provide a good home for the
OO.o project in the long run.
Supporting statements:
[...]
Supporting explanation ;-)
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106
Allen Pulsifer wrote:
I think your labels Conclusion and Supporting statements are incorrect
To the contrary, Cor indicates that I nailed the matter quite squarely.
--- Noel
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Sam Ruby wrote:
From my perspective, I think the license discussion is the essential
one. TDF is now in the position where it has a historic opportunity
to change their license to the Apache License.
As I understand it, TDF should certainly be able to replace their original
LGPL license
Ian Lynch wrote:
Noel J. Bergman:
Sam Ruby wrote:
From my perspective, I think the license discussion is the essential
one. TDF is now in the position where it has a historic opportunity
to change their license to the Apache License.
As I understand it, TDF should certainly
First off, as we've seen with other projects that have gone through
Incubation, we have not chosen to avoid areas where others have projects.
Simply put, if there is interest from a community, we seek to be supportive.
If this proposal goes through, and the ASF chooses to incubate OO.o,
everyone
Florian Effenberger wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
If there is a community split, that decision will rest solely on those
who choose not to join our all-inclusive environment.
So, if TDF does not join the Apache OOo project, a community split is
our (=TDF) fault. However, if the people
We already had subversion for some time as the repository for the main
code and it didn't work well for a project this size.
Tangential to the responses you've already received, I'm curious as to the
problems you experienced with Subversion. Our infrastructure team, working
closely over the
Charles H. Schulz wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Oracle's move with OO.o will fully open the project to all participants
and use-cases, including those who might previously have had to enter
into alternate, paid, licensing arrangements with the copyright holder.
And it comes
Jim Jagielski wrote:
Allen Pulsifer wrote:
As a long time member of the OpenOffice.org community, I would like to
offer
my thoughts on the Oracle/IBM proposal.
Thanks for the very well-written and well-reasoned post.
+1
--- Noel
Alex,
Celix is due in July according to
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportingSchedule
Is the automated system supposed to email every month? Or does it
follow the schedule and is there something wrong?
I was going by what was on the May Wiki page. I just checked the reporting
Incubator Report May 2011
The Incubator continues to accept and graduate projects a pace. This month
we have two new projects, one retirement (with two more likely), and one
graduation.
Imperius has voted to retire. Others are likely to follow (see below).
LibCloud is proposed for graduation
I will be doing it tonight for Thursday's meeting.
Missing: Bluesky, Celix, Delta Cloud, HCatalog, HISE, LibCloud (up for a TLP
vote, but we still need a report), and SIS.
--- Noel
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+1
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A remarkably quiet month in general, with no Board level issues. One
project, Apache OGNL (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OGNLProposal) is
under consideration.
JSPWiki, Olio and VXQuery did not report. Neither did SocialSite, but that
was previously voted into dormant status.
ant elder wrote:
As long as general@ is included i don't see that any oversight is
lost
Please note that the original poster's comment was:
I was under the impression that *any* mentor is an IPMC member, has a
binding +1 vote for releases and could therefore approve of releases
WITHOUT
[REVISED TO INCLUDE GORA. I saw that it was already picked up from the
mailing list, but wanted to get it into the archives in one place. Thanks
to Chris for posting, and Doug for including.]
Nigel Daly, Tommaso Teofili, and Alan Gates have joined the PMC since the
last report.
Howl -- a table
I was under the impression that *any* mentor is an IPMC member, has a
binding +1 vote for releases and could therefore approve of releases
without having to go through general@
The issue is allowing proper oversight, and we've felt that it was important
to give the PMC as a whole the
Nigel Daly, Tommaso Teofili, and Alan Gates have joined the PMC since the
last report.
Howl -- a table and storage management service for data created using Apache
Hadoop -- has been accepted for Incubation. It will be renamed first, given
that there is an ObjectWeb project also called HOWL.
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