Andrew Clark wrote:
Raphaël Luta wrote:
- no source control access
We have read-only CVS access[1] already for the entire
project. The details should definitely be more visible,
though. I'll talk to someone about getting it more
prominent on the main site.
I missed the link. It
On Jan 25, 2006, at 12:24 AM, Raphaël Luta wrote: As far I can tell, what needs to happen to fully OSS AjaxTk is something like this: - cleanup the code/doc/install so that Tk can be consumed by a public communityIt seems to me that something that works in some cases but isn't fully developed as
Raphaël Luta wrote:
As far I can tell, what needs to happen to fully OSS AjaxTk
is something like this:
- cleanup the code/doc/install
I would expect that at worst those would be early doings during Incubation.
- rework a clear internal separation between AjaxTk and ZCS
- adjust internal
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 13:38 +0100, Raphaël Luta wrote:
Seeing Zimbra current OSS efforts with this toolkit (even with an ASF member
in their team), I have a hard time believing this proposal is anything but a
branding exercise to help this toolkit stand out in the
Andrew Clark wrote:
Raphaël Luta wrote:
Seeing Zimbra current OSS efforts with this toolkit
(even with an ASF member in their team), I have a hard
time believing this proposal is anything but a branding
exercise to help this toolkit stand out in the crowd of
Ajax toolkits.
Thanks for
Hi Raphael,
I would agree with this if there was no immediate percieved benefit
when you are in Incubator, unfortunately it seems projects under
incubation are still perceived by the larger community as endorsed by
Apache.
If that's indeed the problem then we need to work on clearing up that
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
What's the status of the vote? I'm confused by calls to repeal the vote
and modifications to the vote and all that. I thought we were spsed to
be a simple bunch of, um, people but it sure doesn't look like it! ;-)
Overview of what occurred:
1) on 12/20, Adam Peller
Raphaël Luta wrote:
I completely understand that you're not a toolkit company
however I can't understand why the AjaxTk is currently in
such a sore open-source state:
- the code dumps on the site are not functional out of the
box
To be precise, all of the toolkit (widgets, utils, etc)
are
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Raphaël Luta wrote:
Do we have other incubating projects following the Kabuki pattern, ie
all initial committers from a single company with the mentor salaried
by the same company ? I'd sure like to know how these evolved if
we have any.
Hmm ... I'd have to check,
Raphaël Luta wrote:
Seeing Zimbra current OSS efforts with this toolkit
(even with an ASF member in their team), I have a hard
time believing this proposal is anything but a branding
exercise to help this toolkit stand out in the crowd of
Ajax toolkits.
The Zimbra product owes much of
On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 13:38 +0100, Raphaël Luta wrote:
Seeing Zimbra current OSS efforts with this toolkit (even with an ASF member
in their team), I have a hard time believing this proposal is anything but a
branding exercise to help this toolkit stand out in the crowd of Ajax
toolkits.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Raphaël Luta wrote:
do you really feel comfortable when the main point of oversight
for the ASF in an incubated project is in the pay of the project
sponsor and quite possibly internally reporting to one of the
project committer ? The potential for conflict is huge and
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
On Jan 19, 2006, at 12:36 AM, Raphaël Luta wrote:
We're doing loops here. My point in this thread is that initial code
quality does matter in a code grant incubation because it is often
burdened by backward compatibility with existing applications and
thus major
Raphaël Luta wrote:
Do we have other incubating projects following the Kabuki pattern, ie
all initial committers from a single company with the mentor salaried
by the same company ? I'd sure like to know how these evolved if
we have any.
Hmm ... I'd have to check, but XMLBeans, Beehive and
Raphaël Luta wrote:
do you really feel comfortable when the main point of oversight
for the ASF in an incubated project is in the pay of the project
sponsor and quite possibly internally reporting to one of the
project committer ? The potential for conflict is huge and I
would personnally
Martin,
Given that nobody else seems to share my views on the
architecture
I think that many of us are still waiting for some details, other than the
namespace.
or on the effect of the ASF brand on the AJAX world
So we should pre-select projects for Incubation based upon whether or not
the
Le 19 janv. 06 à 02:57, Noel J. Bergman a écrit :
Raphaël Luta wrote:
I thought it would be safe to assume that Zimbra collaboration suite
uses the AjaxTk. If it doesn't then I'm even more worried about that
codebase ;)
Why?
Because then I would have to reconsider the orphaned product
On Jan 19, 2006, at 12:18 AM, Raphaël Luta wrote:
Le 19 janv. 06 à 03:03, Noel J. Bergman a écrit :
Raphaël Luta wrote:
What specific concerns do you have with this community and this
codebase?
- the mentor for this project is salaried by the project sponsor !
To date, we have said that
On Jan 19, 2006, at 12:36 AM, Raphaël Luta wrote:
We're doing loops here. My point in this thread is that initial code
quality does matter in a code grant incubation because it is often
burdened by backward compatibility with existing applications and
thus major restructure may require a
Sam Ruby wrote:
Raphaël Luta wrote:
Erik Abele wrote:
It's just the initial code, nothing more :)
I don't agree with this statement.
The code itself is indeed only the initial codebase but along with
this codebase come an established group of committers with an
interest in keeping their
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Raphaël Luta wrote:
along with [a] codebase come an established group of committers
with an interest in keeping their current architecture or at
least backward compatibility
That carries a fairly large assumption, and really should be posed as a
question, not an
Raphaël Luta wrote:
I thought it would be safe to assume that Zimbra collaboration suite
uses the AjaxTk. If it doesn't then I'm even more worried about that
codebase ;)
Why?
An established codebase is *much* more difficult to restructure
than starting from scratch.
Apache SOAP - Apache
Erik Abele wrote:
Oh, of course - but for now there's no community yet so he is
complaining into the blue sky :)
I'd certainly like to see a response to the concerns raised by Martin
but OTOH I don't think that it should evolve into a discussion about
basic architectural principles or
Raphaël Luta wrote:
Erik Abele wrote:
Oh, of course - but for now there's no community yet so he is
complaining into the blue sky :)
I'd certainly like to see a response to the concerns raised by Martin
but OTOH I don't think that it should evolve into a discussion about
basic
On Tuesday 17 January 2006 14:27, Martin Cooper wrote:
And the impact of giving a project the ASF brand. And the way the incubator
operates as an open door to whoever knocks, with virtually no entry
criteria.
This seems to be a recurring (growing?) concern among people 'inside' ASF.
Perhaps
Martin Cooper wrote:
the incubator operates as an open door to whoever knocks,
with virtually no entry criteria.
The criteria is that another PMC votes or the Incubator PMC votes. In the
latter case, we should be looking to see interest from the Membership. In
numerous cases, I can think of
Raphaël Luta wrote:
along with [a] codebase come an established group of committers
with an interest in keeping their current architecture or at
least backward compatibility
That carries a fairly large assumption, and really should be posed as a
question, not an answer.
An established
implementation to fall into
our laps.
That's my two yen.
- Original Message -
From: Martin Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 9:06:50 PM
Subject: Re: ajax proposal?
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 14:36
Andrew Clark wrote:
I thought the whole purpose of the Incubator was to allow
potential code time to breathe and its respective community
to get some legs behind it.
Yes. People seem to be viewing proposals as if they were ready to leave the
Incubator, not just ready to enter it.
Martin Cooper wrote:
I *care* about the quality of what we build here at the ASF. [X]
can very easily cause problems when [...]
I have no problem with either of the above (redacted) sentences. However,
the answer, in my view, is not to wait for X to become perfected elsewhere.
Rather, if
Upayavira wrote:
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
Hopefully before graduation we'll get a couple more AJAX projects
coming in and getting all married together or co-existing/competing
under the same TLP umbrella.
And surely it doesn't make sense to have multiple (potentially
competing) AJAX
On 1/16/06, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
I *care* about the quality of what we build here at the ASF. [X]
can very easily cause problems when [...]
I have no problem with either of the above (redacted) sentences. However,
the answer, in my view, is not
Martin Cooper wrote:
Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't believe that the ASF should be a place for crowning
staid and mature projects. I would like to see continued
innovation here, too.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, from what I've seen from looking
at Zimbra, it's
I'd be very happy to have a discussion on technical points as well.
regards,
Martin
On 1/16/06, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't believe that the ASF should be a place for crowning
staid and mature projects.
Martin Cooper wrote:
whether I get involved with the Zimbra toolkit, and try to help them
see the light, I need to make a personal decision between putting my
energy into that, here at the ASF, or putting it into a non-ASF
project that is already on the right track. I know I don't have the
On 1/16/06, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
whether I get involved with the Zimbra toolkit, and try to help them
see the light, I need to make a personal decision between putting my
energy into that, here at the ASF, or putting it into a non-ASF
project
On 17.01.2006, at 00:02, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
whether I get involved with the Zimbra toolkit, and try to help them
see the light, I need to make a personal decision between putting my
energy into that, here at the ASF, or putting it into a non-ASF
project that is
On Tuesday 17 January 2006 09:18, Erik Abele wrote:
Seriously, I don't understand why you are talking about code maturity
here - IMO this isn't and shouldn't be one of the incubators concerns
- you are here to discuss legal stuff, community issues, mentors and
the Apache Way, no?
Bingo!
Erik Abele wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
FWIW, I would want to see your technical concerns addressed before
graduation, but so far, we have had little if any discussion of
what those tecnical issues really are, or so it seems from the
archives.
Remember that it's about the community
On 17.01.2006, at 03:04, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Erik Abele wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
FWIW, I would want to see your technical concerns addressed before
graduation, but so far, we have had little if any discussion of
what those tecnical issues really are, or so it seems from the
archives.
On 1/16/06, Erik Abele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 17.01.2006, at 00:02, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
whether I get involved with the Zimbra toolkit, and try to help them
see the light, I need to make a personal decision between putting my
energy into that, here at the
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Martin Cooper wrote:
On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision
/06, Dirk-Willem van Gulik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Martin Cooper wrote:
On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Jim Jagielski wrote:
On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:38 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 14:36 -0500, Jim Jagielski wrote:
On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:38 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
Sanjiva and I have experience with Apache SOAP. Two rewrites
later, and there is a thriving community working on Apache Axis2.
The goal here is not to crown
On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 14:36 -0500, Jim Jagielski wrote:
On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:38 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
Sanjiva and I have experience with Apache SOAP. Two rewrites
later, and there is a thriving community working on Apache Axis2.
The goal here is not to crown anything, but to provide the
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Martin Cooper wrote:
On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
..
Personally, I would prefer that the ASF
.. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
..
Personally, I would prefer that the ASF not accept _any_ AJAX framework at
this point in time. The area is relatively new and in a great deal of flux
Martin Cooper wrote:
On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
I don't believe there is a sponsoring PMC at this point.
Once we have
On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:38 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do
with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and
decision??
I don't believe
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
Sanjiva.
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--On January 5, 2006 4:32:46 AM +0600 Sanjiva Weerawarana
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
Noe one has called for a vote. -- justin
On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
I don't believe there is a sponsoring PMC at this point.
Personally, I would prefer
Martin Cooper wrote:
On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
I don't believe there is a sponsoring PMC at this point
Dan Diephouse wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
Personally, I would prefer that the ASF not accept _any_ AJAX
framework at this point in time. The area is relatively new
and in a great deal of flux right now, and crowning one of
them with the ASF brand will create a de facto standard instead
On 1/4/06, Dan Diephouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
I don't
On 1/4/06, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dan Diephouse wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
Personally, I would prefer that the ASF not accept _any_ AJAX
framework at this point in time. The area is relatively new
and in a great deal of flux right now, and crowning one of
them
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