Re: Commons Validator Packaging/Content
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 03:03, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: In this email, all I hear you doing is pointing fingers. It has nothing to do with that. I keep hearing you and other people say jakarta is broken. However as far as I can tell it is just talk whenever someone steps on your toes. You don't really care when other peoples toes get stepped on or when you do th stepping. So how can really expect anyone to care about your issues? As for me fixing Jakarta...I'm not sure I have enough people interested in helping fixing Jakarta. For example, Sam (our current leader) and others see nothing wrong with the current process. I'm also not certain I have enough energy to fight anymore...especially now that we have so many people willing to give their $0.00 opinion and not back that up with action. Honestly, I'm considering leaving entirely...or at least doing what I see everyone else doing...putting their head in a hole and just doing whatever the fuck they want to do. Not helpful, but like all of you, I don't have time either. The failure of Jakarta will be in the reality that no one has the time or energy to keep it running. It really doesn't take much energy or effort. It takes a few minor compromises by people like yourself. Re: build.xml format again - it was your insistence that your way is right and screw everyone else who conflicted with you that led me to not bother pursuig it. If jakarta is failing it is because of people like you who are unwilling to compromise. When I see you change your attitude to match your words then I will be interested, till then I just see you whining when someone does to you, what you do to other projects. Anyways personally I have watched this change occur. I would prefer that Jakarta conformed to your vision but I don't think it will. So instead of seeing it as a failure I prefer to see it a sa different version of success ;) -- Cheers, Pete --- Murphy's law - Anything that can go wrong, will. (Actually, this is Finagle's law, which in itself shows that Finagle was right.) --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:29, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I also will say I haven't seen community crosstalk between XML and Jakarta, from the point of view as communities. I know there are individuals who contribute greatly to both communities, and many of us here in Jakarta depend on XML projects. But in the sense of us really having discussion of cross-community issues, the only one I can recall seeing is Stefano's request to disband PMCs because of his issues with XML's. You would be surprised. The majority of avalon developers are from XML land for one. Other projects have more or less communication - but thats not really different from inter-jakarta projects. -- Cheers, Pete *--* The phrase computer literate user really means the person has been hurt so many times that the scar tissue is thick enough so he no longer feels the pain. -- Alan Cooper, The Inmates are Running the Asylum *--* -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons Validator Packaging/Content
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:36, Ceki Gülcü wrote: The JBoss guys are very smart. Scott Stark is extremely high caliber. Mark is no idiot either. Jboss is successful because it is so fucking good. From where I stand, the other appservers are just copying JBoss. Where do you think the MBean architecture in Weblogic 6.x came from? What a laff! JBoss and Weblogics MBean use is completely and utterly different - JBoss uses JMX as a services architecture while Weblogic uses JMX as a management interface (you know - what it was designed for). The only way that BEA could possibly decide to use the standard management interface to manage its server is to see JMX used in a completely different manner - I am not sure how I missed that. It really is innovative how BEA decided to use the standard management API when it built its management interface. They had no idea that JMX was going to be integrated into J2EE at that stage - how could they. The problem with JBoss is that while they innovate BEA and IBM make all the dough. Such is the nature of opensource. Bloody fucking hell! gotta love experts. -- Cheers, Pete --- Therefore it can be said that victorious warriors win first, and then go to battle, while defeated warriors go to battle first, and then seek to win. - Sun Tzu, the Art Of War --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons Validator Packaging/Content
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 01:40, Sam Ruby wrote: Peter Donald wrote: So are you proposing to become a log4j committer? Would there be a point to that? It depends on whether and how you want to contribute. There still is a lot of work to do. Ceki And theres the rub. These one (or two) line answers don't do much to illuminate the issues. Let me try to rectify this: actually thats not the point I was trying to get across (but an interesting one none the less). The point I was trying to get across was about Cekis attitude is precisely why Jakarta is the way it is and why it is going to only get worse. He has no problem with me working for Log4j but the idea of actual collaboration is foreign. Now wouldn't it have been more interesting if he had said lets get together and collaborate on Log4j v2 as you suggest or even just sharing the common infrstructure. However he didn't. He wants me to work on his project. I wonder if Jon asked Craig to work on turbine whether he would accept? hm I wonder. Ceki, fundamental to Avalon is a design pattern that is referred to as Inversion of Control. This is fairly concisely described at the following web page: http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/framework/inversion-of-control.html , including an example which maps this concept into exactly this domain. IOC is not really the stop gap - Log4j could easily layered over the top of LogKit with very few issues. Can you conceive of any possibility where you and Peter could work together on a log4j v2.0 which conforms to what amounts to a set of restrictions on what a component can do? Your answer above indicates that you have preconceived notions as to how you would limit Peter's freedom to participate. Care to elaborate? This is what I initially proposed to Ceki after it became obvious he was not willing to enable what we needed. This was a few months before he even came to Apache IIRC and I sent him at least 3 different proposals on how to integrate our work - though I believe he claims he only received 2. However at no stage did he even bother to acknowledge the proposals. I would be very surprised if Ceki was willing to work with anyone else though I could be surprised .. I suspect the answer is no though ;) Peter, as you are well aware, I'm not overly thrilled with the way that Avalon has participated in commons either. I weren't aware we were participating ? ;) I have been unable to locate an adequate archive to point to, but recently I felt compelled recently (2001-12-26) to write the following words: There are quite a few projects under the Apache umbrella that I see as simultaneously unwilling to depend on others, and puzzled that more people are not willing to depend on them. And if you recall I agreed with you in a reply ... or at least I seem to recall doing so ;) To drive this point home, the subject line of this thread identifies exactly one such set of duplication - between Turbine and Struts. My nagging lead Berin to propose moving the Avalon collections code into commons, to which you responded, and I quote, +/- 0. I was hoping Jeff would do it as he seemed to be involved over there ;) I have no time atm and no real motiviation to do it. Last time I was on the list I watched 3 things be proposed to commons - nobody even voted !!! There was no response whatsoever. Apparently Jeff has similar comments when he offered some of the avalon bits over there. I m not willing to do the work for some simple reasons * I don't like the management style (see below) * I am lazy and don't like creating more work for myself (bet you knew that already though) * I no longer care about duplication and wheel reinvention (it will happen anyway) You can say all you want that you predicted how commons would turn out - but lack of participation by people such as yourself have made such predictions self fulfilling prophesies. Heres what sucks about commons; 1. People who are not associated with codebase nor ever contributed to it get voting rights over codebase (who needs meritocracy anyways) 2. Stable packages still have to go via sandbox and go through that whole painful voting process (yet more non-contributors getting votes over codebase) 3. Im not a committer Change (1) and I will migrate the majority of excaalibur across in time (and bitch and moan till (2)/(3) is changed). Change (1), (2) and (3) and I will move stuff across tomorrow (though still take time to actually do releases). -- Cheers, Pete --- Remember, your body is a temple; however, it's also your dancehall and bowling alley -- Dharma Montgomery --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: crushed
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: A good one that Sam worked on resolving fairly successfully is the one about Gump. Another issue which I see as a failure is the failure of projects to communicate with each other. Thanks for the kind words. If you take a moment and read the first paragraph of text on http://jakarta.apache.org/gump/, you will see that it is my intent that what you see in Gump is my first installment towards addressing the larger issue you describe in the second sentence described above. And there are a lot of people who can testify that it has sparked a number of meaningful conversations between subprojects. There have been numerous references in this mailing list to what form the second installment is likely to take, many of which with URL references to other discussions and mock ups. If you care to participate or are merely curious, take a look at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalw=2r=1s=forrestq=b. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content
Paulo Gaspar wrote: I do what I can at the pace I am able. Which is quite impressive. Especially considering that you probably have other duties and a live. Thanks. And I do have both. http://www.activestate.com/Corporate/People/Tech_Board.html#sam http://www.zend.com/zend/hof/sam.php - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Not able to put classes in the class path
I have installed , tomcat 4.0.1, and i have added an context in the webapps.. but when i m trying to use the class files it is not picking up.., saying nopt found... i have put the class files in web-inf/classes pls help me... what to do... vikas mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Not able to put classes in the class path
maybe you would be better served asking on the Tomcat-user mailing list On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have installed , tomcat 4.0.1, and i have added an context in the webapps.. but when i m trying to use the class files it is not picking up.., saying nopt found... i have put the class files in web-inf/classes pls help me... what to do... vikas mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- Cheers, Pete My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: crushed
Look at TC3 vs TC4 - I subscribed about a year ago to their dev list and the relationships between the two groups were less than good and a few people were trying to make the division even greater .. apparently now all is good over there. Keep in mind (maybe not Peter but other readers of this post) that: 1) Both groups always had common long term objectives but disagreed on the way to achieve them or had different short term targets; 2) If there had been a strict imposition from above, TC3.3 could have been forked and a lot of that group could have gone elsewhere. Maybe this would have permanently destroyed many synergies between the 2 groups that were always there (like with the connectors) and others that are now evolving. In the process, maybe some TC3.3 ideas proved their worth to some TC4 guys, which means increased cross pollination. In this case strict control would have prevented several positive things from happening. Similar situation with the Logging APIs, just that this time on separate projects: 1) Now both groups are quite a bit incompatible and forcing a merge would destroy or send away one of the projects; 2) Still, some projects prefer Log4J and others LogKit; 3) Each of these Logging libraries seems to have its advantages and different strong and week spots. I am quite sure of this since at the company I work for we have been using LogKit and Log4J for different projects and I have been doing some logging work with both; 4) The need of other projects (e.g.: commons components) to use both is already putting some pressure into cross pollination. With time, it can happen that: - They will finally be able to merge; - One of them will learn all the advantages from the other and become dominant. Either way, positive cross pollination is bound to happen. This is why I would prefer to have both projects around instead of just forcing them to merge. Lets put some peer pressure on them without destroying them. Many general strict rules - like forcing to merge what seems to be the same thing - would be very destructive in this kind of situation. Common sense must be applied (like: no, you can not fork Tomcat in another project) on a case by case basis. And yes, I am aware of how uncommon common sense seems to be but I still believe there is enough of it around here. Have fun, Paulo Gaspar -Original Message- From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:12 PM On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:02, Jeff Turner wrote: I would encourage people (esp. Jon, Ceki, Peter) to read Linus' emails on design: The problem with singlemindedness and strict control (or design) is that it sure gets you from point A to point B in a much straighter line, and with less expenditure of energy, but how the HELL are you going to consistently know where you actually want to end up? It's not like we know that B is our final destination. -- http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398 Choice is fine and the more the better. However I would much prefer that all Xs were implemented by one project where X is whatever we are talking about. Look at TC3 vs TC4 - I subscribed about a year ago to their dev list and the relationships between the two groups were less than good and a few people were trying to make the division even greater .. apparently now all is good over there. Isn't that a better solution than having projects side by side competing? Sure it may be rocky for a bit but it is better for Apache in the end (though maybe less ego stroking for the individual developers). -- Cheers, Pete - First, we shape our tools, thereafter, they shape us. - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content
Turbine and Avalon serve very distinct purposes, uses and users. They just have a load of components trying to do the same thing. Those could be shared and unified by placing them in the commons. Have fun, Paulo Gaspar -Original Message- From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:13 PM On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 03:04, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 1/7/02 2:45 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 21:33, Ceki Gulcu wrote: Peter, So are you proposing to become a log4j committer? Would there be a point to that? sarcasm Exactly. Collaboration on a single logging tool would be a terrible idea. /sarcasm so would collaboration on a web framework -- Cheers, Pete - Clarke's Third Law: Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)
I was not demanding karma, just stating what I thought were obstacles. Now I have some clues and it looks like I can help even without karma. =:o) Have fun, Paulo -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 11:54 AM Paulo Gaspar wrote: No karma, no clue on how to change a Jakarta web page! =:o/ But at least puting the URL on the list should be a couple of minutes for someone who does know. karma follows clue, i.e., get a clue, and you get karma. A good place to start is by going to http://jakarta.apache.org;, and clicking on About this site. One thing that a handful of us are painfully aware of... there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of couple of minute tasks that come up a week - granting someone karma, moderating spam from the mailing lists, chasing down build breakages. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Avalon, Commons, once again (Re: Commons Validator Packaging/Content)
Ted Husted wrote: As it stands, both are simply subprojects, and so a Commons committer is a Commons committer. Ditto for Taglibs. It is also fair to point out that an Avalon committer is a committer to the framework itself as well as to testlet, logkit, phoenix, cornerstone, excalibur, and site. So, one could draw a conclusion that anybody who choses not to participate in Commons due to this structure would also chose to withdraw from Avalon until this is corrected. In a way, the Commons and Taglibs subproject represent the other approach to Jakarta that people sometimes advocate, but so far a strong leader has not stepped up to fulfill the other half of that model. I have quietly stated several times that I would prefer that a Jakarta committer is a Jakarta committer. Gaging by the response I got each time, I figured that then was not the time to push the issue. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
FW: email issues..
Someone want to reply to this person directly? -jon -- Forwarded Message From: Eitan Suez [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:43:09 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: email issues.. hi, i suspect that a recent attempt to block out spam on my mail server might have inadvertantly blocked out legitimate correspondence. if you have tried to reply to my last email, i did not receive it. i believe the problem is fixed now. i apologize for the inconvenience. sincerely, / eitan suez -Original Message- From: Eitan Suez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 10:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: publishing question.. Hi Jon, i visited the apache preFAQ at: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html#java which mentioned your email address as a human contact for non-technical questions concerning the apache java project. i have been working on a side project recently and am working on a site that i hope to publish in the near future. the site is essentially an online reference of javadocs (similar to jakarta's own alexandria project). i am trying to find out the procedure for obtaining permission for publishing online the javadocs of existing apache java api's (such as oro, xerces, etc..). for a more precise idea of the site that i intend to publish, you may visit the following url: http://www.uptodata.com:8080/dbdoc/ which is a temporary demonstration (password-protected) version of the site. you may use these credentials to gain access: username: dbdoc password: demo Sincerely, Eitan Suez programmer -- End of Forwarded Message -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons Validator Packaging/Content
on 1/8/02 3:13 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so would collaboration on a web framework Pete This happened a long time ago (May 2000) on the PMC list: When Craig originally proposed Struts, I -1'd it. He assured me that he would be willing to collaborate together on Turbine and Struts (see the Third point below), so I changed to a +1 based on that point alone (there is another message where I made that clear). Needless to say, Craig lied. So, don't give me anymore shit Peter. I'm tired of it. -jon -- Forwarded Message From: Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:45:17 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL/VOTE] New Jakarta Subproject - Struts Jon Stevens wrote: on 5/30/2000 11:19 AM, Craig R. McClanahan at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding JSP-related stuff into Turbine is also a good idea; it's just not on my list of interesting things to work on. Craig Why not just add Struts into Turbine? In my mind, there are several issues: First, (somewhat paradoxically), is the fact that Turbine does so much for you. It's comprehensive nature, like any good framework, makes it correspondingingly tough to get your hands around. Struts focuses on the MVC architecture (slightly different approach than Action Events but the same basic idea) plus the use of some JSP custom tags that interact with the action classes in synergistic ways. One of the ways to view Turbine is this is what you graduate to, once you understand what an MVC-architectured web application looks like. Second, some of the functionality supported by Turbine is done in ways that differ from the emerging J2EE standards (for example, connection pools). Granted, you got there first -- but some of the people who want to build MVC-based web applications will be doing so with a J2EE server as the target platform, so they will need to utilize the J2EE approach to things like this where such an approach exists. This is a philosophy issue for Turbine in general -- do you want to blaze your own trail in how services are provided, or do you want to become more J2EE-like? (I don't have the personal energy or passion needed to productively participate in this discussion -- that's for the people who really care about Turbine to decide.) Third, it is a little early to think that anyone (including myself) has a clear handle on what the optimum integration of JSP into a full-featured application framework like Turbine should look like. One of the ways to view Struts is an incubator for exploring how to do Model 2 apps, using JSPs and custom tags, in an optimum way. Once the pattern is clear, it will be lots easier to integrate the final result into Turbine, rather than doing the integration over and over again as the patterns get refined. Fourth, over the last year or so on JSP-INTEREST a considerable amount of discussion has taken place about how to do Model-2 based app designs, using the fundamental patterns that are implemented in Struts (similar but different to corresponding things in Turbine). Large numbers of people have asked for a working example because they are new to the whole concept of writing web apps (to say nothing of the implications of writing code that works in a multithreaded server environment :-) -- I wish to meet that need without making them have to learn too much at once. Finally, longer term, I would not be at all surprised to see the two approaches merged. That just doesn't help meet a short term need to publish code so that I can stop describing the pattern over and over again in words on the mailing lists. A hyperlink to a download is much more concise and easier to type :-). -jon Craig -- End of Forwarded Message -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)
My guess then is that you have not read down the page far enough then. No demands required. Wrong guess. =;o) I am noisy but not a committer in any Apache projects. Just posted a few patches on a couple of projects. Have fun, Paulo Gaspar -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:01 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed) Paulo Gaspar wrote: I was not demanding karma, just stating what I thought were obstacles. Now I have some clues and it looks like I can help even without karma. =:o) My guess then is that you have not read down the page far enough then. No demands required. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Volunteer Wanted
I want to remove my name from this page: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Volunteer Wanted
I'd say it should be the [EMAIL PROTECTED] and if anyone, including Paulo, want to help out with the Webmaster emails, that would be great. Jon Scott Stevens wrote: I want to remove my name from this page: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Volunteer Wanted
on 1/8/02 11:57 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say it should be the [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good idea. Done. and if anyone, including Paulo, want to help out with the Webmaster emails, that would be great. Maybe you will get lucky and get a volunteer. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Volunteer Wanted
First, the page is outdated, Java Apache is not Jakarta. Second, acting as a receptionist at desk with a million visitors a day is not what I call a dream job. The task should left to one person but shared on a rotational basis. I am willing to be the first and take over for *one* month. Any other volunteers? Regards, Ceki At 14:57 08.01.2002 -0500, you wrote: I'd say it should be the [EMAIL PROTECTED] and if anyone, including Paulo, want to help out with the Webmaster emails, that would be great. Jon Scott Stevens wrote: I want to remove my name from this page: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Volunteer Wanted
The Webmaster box is a group account, and its easy to share. Just hit reply-all so the other webmasters know you replied. Peir used to help out, but he's off now. Another committer helps out now and again, but its mostly just me now. Which is fine, but I thought I would float the offer since it came up. I also just put up one of Jon's famous gatekeeper pages, http://jakarta.apache.org/site/contact.html which may cut down the traffic a bit (which isn't much now). It's really not a problem. -T. Ceki Gülcü wrote: First, the page is outdated, Java Apache is not Jakarta. Second, acting as a receptionist at desk with a million visitors a day is not what I call a dream job. The task should left to one person but shared on a rotational basis. I am willing to be the first and take over for *one* month. Any other volunteers? Regards, Ceki At 14:57 08.01.2002 -0500, you wrote: I'd say it should be the [EMAIL PROTECTED] and if anyone, including Paulo, want to help out with the Webmaster emails, that would be great. Jon Scott Stevens wrote: I want to remove my name from this page: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Volunteer Wanted
I was actually thinking along those same lines. Tomcat 3.2.x is history and I haven't found another place to stick my fingers into the code, yet, so I wouldn't mind helping out a little bit with this. BUT, I have NO desire to hold such a position indefintely. I like the idea of a rotation. Depending on the load and the number of volunteers a two week rotation might be better. How many messages per day are we talking about. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:14 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Volunteer Wanted First, the page is outdated, Java Apache is not Jakarta. Second, acting as a receptionist at desk with a million visitors a day is not what I call a dream job. The task should left to one person but shared on a rotational basis. I am willing to be the first and take over for *one* month. Any other volunteers? Regards, Ceki At 14:57 08.01.2002 -0500, you wrote: I'd say it should be the [EMAIL PROTECTED] and if anyone, including Paulo, want to help out with the Webmaster emails, that would be great. Jon Scott Stevens wrote: I want to remove my name from this page: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] === The information contained in this message is confidential and is intended for the addressee(s) only. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender of the delivery error by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. - Apropos Technology. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Volunteer Wanted
LOL I am willing to help but I will not stop being a pain in your ass when I find it necessary. Please remember that I do not systematicaly disagree with you. I just disagree when I can not agree. Have fun, Paulo Gaspar -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Volunteer Wanted I want to remove my name from this page: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Volunteer Wanted
Ok Ted, At the moment I do not have enough time to assume the responsibility for the whole thing but I am willing to help. (I also do not have the time for flaming days like yesterday.) One more making some of the work must be of some help. Have fun, Paulo Gaspar -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:21 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Volunteer Wanted The Webmaster box is a group account, and its easy to share. Just hit reply-all so the other webmasters know you replied. Peir used to help out, but he's off now. Another committer helps out now and again, but its mostly just me now. Which is fine, but I thought I would float the offer since it came up. I also just put up one of Jon's famous gatekeeper pages, http://jakarta.apache.org/site/contact.html which may cut down the traffic a bit (which isn't much now). It's really not a problem. -T. Ceki Gülcü wrote: First, the page is outdated, Java Apache is not Jakarta. Second, acting as a receptionist at desk with a million visitors a day is not what I call a dream job. The task should left to one person but shared on a rotational basis. I am willing to be the first and take over for *one* month. Any other volunteers? Regards, Ceki At 14:57 08.01.2002 -0500, you wrote: I'd say it should be the [EMAIL PROTECTED] and if anyone, including Paulo, want to help out with the Webmaster emails, that would be great. Jon Scott Stevens wrote: I want to remove my name from this page: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Volunteer Wanted
apmail, Could you please add [EMAIL PROTECTED] to the list of people receiving [EMAIL PROTECTED] mail Thanks! -- Ted husted ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Paulo Gaspar wrote: Ok Ted, At the moment I do not have enough time to assume the responsibility for the whole thing but I am willing to help. (I also do not have the time for flaming days like yesterday.) One more making some of the work must be of some help. Have fun, Paulo Gaspar -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:21 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Volunteer Wanted The Webmaster box is a group account, and its easy to share. Just hit reply-all so the other webmasters know you replied. Peir used to help out, but he's off now. Another committer helps out now and again, but its mostly just me now. Which is fine, but I thought I would float the offer since it came up. I also just put up one of Jon's famous gatekeeper pages, http://jakarta.apache.org/site/contact.html which may cut down the traffic a bit (which isn't much now). It's really not a problem. -T. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Volunteer Wanted
Ted Husted wrote: Could you please add [EMAIL PROTECTED] to the list of people receiving [EMAIL PROTECTED] mail Done. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: email issues..
I did reply to him. I told him that no License issues would prevent it, but to just let people know that he was doing it. Scott Sanders -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: email issues.. Someone want to reply to this person directly? -jon -- Forwarded Message From: Eitan Suez [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:43:09 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: email issues.. hi, i suspect that a recent attempt to block out spam on my mail server might have inadvertantly blocked out legitimate correspondence. if you have tried to reply to my last email, i did not receive it. i believe the problem is fixed now. i apologize for the inconvenience. sincerely, / eitan suez -Original Message- From: Eitan Suez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 10:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: publishing question.. Hi Jon, i visited the apache preFAQ at: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html#java which mentioned your email address as a human contact for non-technical questions concerning the apache java project. i have been working on a side project recently and am working on a site that i hope to publish in the near future. the site is essentially an online reference of javadocs (similar to jakarta's own alexandria project). i am trying to find out the procedure for obtaining permission for publishing online the javadocs of existing apache java api's (such as oro, xerces, etc..). for a more precise idea of the site that i intend to publish, you may visit the following url: http://www.uptodata.com:8080/dbdoc/ which is a temporary demonstration (password-protected) version of the site. you may use these credentials to gain access: username: dbdoc password: demo Sincerely, Eitan Suez programmer -- End of Forwarded Message -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Code conventions
It's only two little lines extra to include the {}'s,
Yeah, but those two lines will make my code run slower.
Don't you know?
The less space your source code takes, the less space
your class file will take.
And smaller classes run faster.
It must be true - 90% of people I've worked with seem
to live by that principle.
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RE: Code conventions
-Original Message-
From: Tim Vernum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 5:12 PM
To: 'Jakarta General List'
Subject: RE: Code conventions
It's only two little lines extra to include the {}'s,
Yeah, but those two lines will make my code run slower.
Don't you know?
The less space your source code takes, the less space
your class file will take.
And smaller classes run faster.
It must be true - 90% of people I've worked with seem
to live by that principle.
How about having your code with a nice format. Then running it through a
utility that strips all formatting and makes the source file compact, and
then compile that.
This would make the code-format-promoting people happy, and also the
need-for-speed-at-every-cost people.
I remember somewhere looking at a utility like this once... but don't know
where.
Just a thought.
Ylan Segal.
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I'm tired of noise...
... so I go back to action. When Forrest powers xml.apache.org, you'll know about it. [I'll remain subscribed here, but don't expect much participation from me: I'd rather spend my time doing something more useful than crying about why this project isn't the project I dream about] Take care. -- Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Friedrich Nietzsche -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
License change for new year ?
I have 2 questions : 1/ Now that we are in 2002, do we need to change the text in all our license files to be : Copyright (c) 1999-2002 The Apache Software Foundation instead of Copyright (c) 1999-2001 The Apache Software Foundation ? 2/ Some license files only have Copyright (c) 1999 The Apache Software Foundation and some others have a year range as in Copyright (c) 1999-2001 The Apache Software Foundation. Should one be preferred over the other ? Are they both valid ? Thanks -Vincent -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Avalon, Commons, once again (Re: Commons Validator Packaging/Content)
On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 09:29:18PM +1100, Peter Donald wrote: ... To drive this point home, the subject line of this thread identifies exactly one such set of duplication - between Turbine and Struts. My nagging lead Berin to propose moving the Avalon collections code into commons, to which you responded, and I quote, +/- 0. I was hoping Jeff would do it as he seemed to be involved over there ;) I saw the +/- 0, and that Berin hadn't voted, and then thought of how this would look to Commons people: as a code dump; abandoned by it's authors, singlehandedly maintained by someone who might disappear at any moment (from their POV; I'm not going anywhere;). Quite a big ask. Though if you're okay with it (forking is a bit.. impolite:), I'll make an attempt sometime late Feb (after holidays.. wheee). I have no time atm and no real motiviation to do it. Last time I was on the list I watched 3 things be proposed to commons - nobody even voted !!! There was no response whatsoever. Apparently Jeff has similar comments when he offered some of the avalon bits over there. 'twasn't Avalon code, but yes.. it pains me to think of all those XML doctype decls flying around, unchanged.. ;) The lack of project-wide sense of responsibility is the biggest problem for Commons (and jakarta-taglibs, incidentally). It's something I aim to help solve the old-fashioned way. * I no longer care about duplication and wheel reinvention (it will happen anyway) Yep, to a degree. Though without a simultaneous commitment to document the resulting forks/duplications and preferably cull the old code, then Jon's worst predictions will come true and we can kiss Jakarta goodbye now. You can say all you want that you predicted how commons would turn out - but lack of participation by people such as yourself have made such predictions self fulfilling prophesies. Heres what sucks about commons; 1. People who are not associated with codebase nor ever contributed to it get voting rights over codebase (who needs meritocracy anyways) Has that turned out to be a problem in practice? Say if you think so, and we can propose a modification to the charter: The votes of those who haven't committed to a project are non-binding. 2. Stable packages still have to go via sandbox and go through that whole painful voting process (yet more non-contributors getting votes over codebase) 3. Im not a committer You are. 'donaldp' listed for jakarta-commons and jakarta-commons-sandbox. --Jeff Change (1) and I will migrate the majority of excaalibur across in time (and bitch and moan till (2)/(3) is changed). Change (1), (2) and (3) and I will move stuff across tomorrow (though still take time to actually do releases). -- Cheers, Pete --- Remember, your body is a temple; however, it's also your dancehall and bowling alley -- Dharma Montgomery --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons Validator Packaging/Content
On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 10:48:42AM -, Danny Angus wrote: Jon wrote: My opinion is that there are to many peers in the process and that is what is breaking Jakarta. This wasn't a problem until now. We are starting to explode under our own ever growing weight. I've been involved in other organisations that tried, from best intentions, to have a non hierarchical structure. ... This is a meritocracy. In some projects, the 'merit slope' is so steep you could ski down it :) Don't let the lack of obvious hierarchy blind you to the very strong internal hierarchy. Even if people are cheeky to Jon, they know where on the slope he sits ;) --Jeff d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Code conventions
On 1/8/02 8:53 AM, Endre Stølsvik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
| My question is what are the consequences to forcing me to do #2 when #1 is
| perfectly acceptable throughout the professional world?
That syntax is so bleedin' ugly that I would suspect you were a novice not
knowing how to code.. ;)
PROFESSIONALS don't code using really, really ugly standards...
No, they consult the coding manual from the technology vendor.
:D
if (something)
{
Some block;
}
That's so ugly I have a hard time parsing it.
The _only_ way which is worse, is:
if (something)
{
Some block;
}
How is is possible to devise such a _fantastically_ ugly way of writing a
block? I have a hard time trying to _write_ that example there. It is so
utterly incredible. I have to go through it, parsing all such code char by
char, hitting the del key until a { appears after the if clause..!
;)
I'm glad that you put your own health and well-being on the line, assuming
the risks for your compatriots, by actually typing if blocks different from
your usual. Since you did it in the context of an Apache public discussion,
you may apply for funding from the ASF for counseling and therapy, but
remember the out of network co-pay.
But then, on a serious note, the un-enclosed block like this
if (something)
this;
else
that;
is a bit dangerous.
I think it can be very dangerous, especially in a multi-programmer
environment. (Seriously...)
If you start, kind of mindlessy, to play around with
the code there, you all of a sudden insert a line extra after the that
part, thinking that it will execute only in the else part. Which, of
course, it won't, as it executes all the time..
It's only two little lines extra to include the {}'s, IF you of course
don't use the really ugly standard, or worse, the _fantastically_ ugly
standard, mentioned above.
if (something) {
this;
}
else {
that;
}
Foul! Heathen! Gaak!
You could, if the this and that parts were very small, do this
if (something) { this; }
else { that; }
Ug! Please stop! I beg you.
Or prettify that as
if (something) { this; }
else { that; }
Hey! You stole my code :)
but now you're really moving along the edge..
:)
| On your resume, I see that you were terminated for cause at Sun?
|
| Yes, I created too many classes with the opening brace on a separate
| line...
WHAT? You DARE coming in here, wasting my time, being an
opening-brace-on-separate-line-ASSHOLE? You get the f*** outta here!!
---
GUARDS! - Could you please shove this thing into the incer... Erhm, I
meant; show this ... person ... to the door?
LOL
--
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System and Software Consulting
Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the
freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Code conventions
On 1/8/02 6:12 PM, Tim Vernum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's only two little lines extra to include the {}'s,
Yeah, but those two lines will make my code run slower.
Don't you know?
The less space your source code takes, the less space
your class file will take.
And smaller classes run faster.
It must be true - 90% of people I've worked with seem
to live by that principle.
Add to that the fact that if it was hard to write, it should be hard to
read...
:)
--
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
Be a giant. Take giant steps. Do giant things...
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Re: Code conventions
It's only two little lines extra to include the {}'s,
Yeah, but those two lines will make my code run slower.
Don't you know?
The less space your source code takes, the less space
your class file will take.
And smaller classes run faster.
It must be true - 90% of people I've worked with seem
to live by that principle.
Add to that the fact that if it was hard to write, it should be hard to
read...
:)
Someone told me if you use a really small font like courier 6pt then
you don't even need an optimizing compiler.
-Andy
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http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html
- fix java generics!
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote.
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