Hi Jeff
I share your oppinions on EJB. Whenever I ask developers why they are using
EJB the common answer I get from people is 'well I get transactions for
free'. When most of the time they don't do 2 phase commit with their
database anyways. And all that extra work just to get 'acceptable'
From: Micael Padraig Og mac Grene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Are you just talking about creating a new language, or what? What is
your
idea? I cannot tell.
That's a good question, and ultimately one which would be determined by
the constraints of the technology. Prototyping would
Alex,
My experience is that people either immediately decide they like AltRMI
or strongly dislike it. One of my strongest critics (in commons mail
list) is coming round to it after much effort :-)
For many it is inline with something they have felt for ages : Remote
interface and
and xml.apache.org since all are on the same
machine ;(
-
Henri Gomez ___[_]
EMAIL : [EMAIL PROTECTED](. .)
PGP KEY : 697ECEDD...oOOo..(_)..oOOo...
PGP Fingerprint : 9DF8 1EA8 ED53 2F39 DC9B 904A 364F 80E6
-Original Message-
From:
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 04:14, James Strachan wrote:
Hi Jeff
I share your oppinions on EJB. Whenever I ask developers why they are using
EJB the common answer I get from people is 'well I get transactions for
free'. When most of the time they don't do 2 phase commit with their
database
This is getting interesting and we have e lot of pieces for this kind
of puzzle around Apache.
Why must standards be ruled just by the BigCo's???
De facto standards happen when a product is really good.
This reminds me how the then tiny dog Borland turned Turbo Pascal
into the de facto
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 06:44, Paul Hammant wrote:
Alex,
My experience is that people either immediately decide they like AltRMI
or strongly dislike it. One of my strongest critics (in commons mail
list) is coming round to it after much effort :-)
For many it is inline with something
of the Sun/Microsoft duopoly. (Yeah, yeah, there will always be people
who enjoy working on nonvirtual machines, but they're crazy :-)
I'm not completely sure I followed this. I was cool up until the above
line. Are you suggesting just a replacement for J2EE or Java itself.
I'm fairly
So what if you need to move an object that is defined as local to be
load balanced across machines? I think you're wrong on that one. If
you have to define it as local you loose scalability by definition
unless you accept the hardware vendor's edition of scalability (buy an
E1 instead and
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 08:27, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
This is getting interesting and we have e lot of pieces for this kind
of puzzle around Apache.
Why must standards be ruled just by the BigCo's???
De facto standards happen when a product is really good.
This reminds me how the then tiny
Paul already talked about a couple ways of tuning the use of remote
calls without having to do it on a case by case basis.
However, the thumb rule is that:
- Either you build the system to be scalable (which might make it
a bit less efficient when having it working in a single machine
Perhaps the question to ask is how are real sites providing real
scalabilty without resorting to Enterprise JavaBeans?
Take google.com and yahoo.com for example,
Yahoo offers a signficant number of remote, multi-user applications like
the ones we would like to provide to our own clients. Are
Hey Andrew
Insteresting thread ;-)
- Original Message -
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 04:14, James Strachan wrote:
Hi Jeff
I share your oppinions on EJB. Whenever I ask developers why they are
using
EJB the common answer I get from people is
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 08:59, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
Paul already talked about a couple ways of tuning the use of remote
calls without having to do it on a case by case basis.
I'll reread the archive after I finish my coffee ;-)
However, the thumb rule is that:
- Either you build the system
Those are both search engines with non-critical data update issues. You
do need an example with more business-logic oriented type
functionality. I could mock something like those up with Lucene just
with a few routers and pushing the indicies to the mirrored systems.
This doesn't answer the
I used to see J2EE and EJBs as the perfect solution to build scalable, maintainable
webapplications. Our companies has been moving away from the webapplications business
and we're completely focussing on delivering knowledge management components
(including some integration stuff). The initial
Excuse me, but Paul answered the exact opposite of what you meant. AltRMI is
intended to make the whole remote call transparent, while you said:
From Paulo Gaspar:
Your app will always be more robust if you do NOT ignore the
specific issues of a remote call.
Not that it matters much; I just
Paulo,
Paul just answered to what I meant in a better way than I would be able
to do.
BTW Paul, you know JAspect and Dynamic Proxies don't you?
Yes, BUT : I am not skilled enough in Jaspect, AspectJ, BCEL, JCFE to
able able to use them for AltRMI's proxy generation. I know *exactly*
what I
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 09:19, Alef Arendsen wrote:
I used to see J2EE and EJBs as the perfect solution to build scalable, maintainable
webapplications. Our companies has been moving away from the webapplications business
and we're completely focussing on delivering knowledge management
Hi Jeff,
-Mensaje original-
De: Jeff Schnitzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
[...]
I've been giving a lot of thought to distributed object models lately.
I've worked with DCOM, CORBA, RMI, and EJB, and for the most
part it's a
lot of the same. Since networks are getting so fast
yahoo.com goes way beyond a search engine:
Email, address books, auctions, classified ads, file storage, calendars
and shared calendars, personalized portals for like 27 different sub
applications, the list goes on.
Yahoo is delivering a vast number of dynamic applications to an
incredible
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 10:46, Ted Husted wrote:
yahoo.com goes way beyond a search engine:
Email, address books, auctions, classified ads, file storage, calendars
and shared calendars, personalized portals for like 27 different sub
applications, the list goes on.
Yahoo is delivering a
As far as I can remember Google has started out in a small shed using just personal
computers. No big mainframes, serverfarms or whatever. Just a proprietary server
platform.
What the status is right now, I don't now...
alef
-Original Message-
From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL
You know, since Apache is a member of the J2SE group at Apache, it would
make a lot of sense for us to develop a resource page regarding J2SE
scalability.
I'd be very happy to start and maintain such a page here, as I do for
Struts.
http://husted.com/struts/resources.htm
If anyone has some
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 11:07, Ted Husted wrote:
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 10:46, Ted Husted wrote:
yahoo.com goes way beyond a search engine:
Email, address books, auctions, classified ads, file storage, calendars
and shared calendars, personalized portals for
(too bad I'll be boycotting Yahoo soon because they use pop-up ads which
I consider SOoo unprofessional)
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 11:00, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 11:07, Ted Husted wrote:
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 10:46, Ted Husted wrote:
If you are _very_ lucky, the object is coarse grained enough, and has loose
enough performance requirements, that the rest of the system can tolerate
that calls to it will take 100 to 1000 times longer.
I've never seen any system that lucky.
Most objects don't work if they are made
A 10,000 node linux cluster. http://www.google.com/press/highlights.html
-Original Message-
From: Alef Arendsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:58 AM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful
As far as I can remember
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
#1 you don't need to use EJBs to distribute business logic If you do
need to
distribute business logic, then there are various alternatives open,
from
HTTP/Servlets, JMS, SOAP or EJB. Each should be evaluated on their
merits,
cost/benefits etc.
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:35:55 - James Strachan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote.
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
#1 you don't need to use EJBs to distribute business logic If you do
need to
distribute business logic, then there are various alternatives open,
from
HTTP/Servlets, JMS, SOAP
Hey all,
I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC nomination
and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible
Hello Jon,
That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
big time night club owner than working on Jakarta.
Way to go ;)
You know, last summer I was reading the jokes archive and found this
On 2/1/02 8:57 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps the question to ask is how are real sites providing real
scalabilty without resorting to Enterprise JavaBeans?
Take google.com and yahoo.com for example,
Yahoo offers a signficant number of remote, multi-user applications
Hello,
Sorry, it was meant as a private message - hit the wrong key :(
Hello Jon,
That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
big time night club owner than working on Jakarta.
Way
I agree quite a lot with Andrew. In fact, I agree enough that I stopped using
EJBs around the middle of last year because they are SUCH a pain to build and
maintain, and because the performance sucks and there's nothing you can do
about it, even if you pay the high premiums for advanced
I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments. I can say, however,
that his excellent and informed contributions to Commons, to Taglibs, and
On Sat, 2 Feb 2002 07:19, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
Hey all,
I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC nomination
and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
that it is
+1. Craig is good, sometimes too good :)
Scott
-Original Message-
From: Morgan Delagrange [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:17 PM
To: General Jakarta
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan
I would like to nominate Craig
On 2/1/02 5:16 PM, Morgan Delagrange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments. I can say, however,
that
I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
I give this nomination a STRONG approval.
-kz
X-Authentication-Warning: engmail1.Eng.Sun.COM: noaccess owned process doing
-bs
X-Authentication-Warning: engmail1.Eng.Sun.COM: noaccess@localhost didn't use
HELO protocol
Thanks, Jon. You are a legend.
At 12:19 PM 2/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
Hey all,
I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC nomination
and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I
At least it seems that your are in for serious fun!
Hard to imagine a better reason to quit the PMC.
I hope you enjoy it and thanks for making things happen.
All the best,
Paulo Gaspar
-Original Message-
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 01,
Sorry to see you go. Thanks for all your help, which many times meant
simplifying things for me (read: Velocity rocks!).
Bojan
On Sat, 2002-02-02 at 07:19, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
Hey all,
I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC nomination
and do not want to be
+1
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 17:16, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments. I can say, however,
that his
So long, and thanks for all the fish =:0)
-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Java Web Development with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
Hey all,
I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC
I've noticed that not all recent e-mail messages from a few Jakarta
mailing lists had Reply-To header set back to the list, so my Reply
button sent stuff to people directly. Was anything changed recently?
Bojan
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands,
The man is an absolute legend. I second that nomination!
Bojan
On Sat, 2002-02-02 at 09:16, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC.
Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I
cannot give a complete
Not very recently.
-1 on even having this discussion:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
it's offtopic.
-Andy
On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 18:22, Bojan Smojver wrote:
I've noticed that not all recent e-mail messages from a few Jakarta
mailing lists had Reply-To header set back to the
OK then. It must be a fluke, which happened to a message on Velocity
list too :-)
And just to make it clear, I wasn't trying to introduce a discussion
along the lines of 'what is a good practice of Reply-To header', but
rather find out why some e-mail messages in recent days didn't behave as
Hey all,
I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC
nomination
and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
that it is time for me to move on from being politically
Moving this to the Commons. Please reply only in the commons-dev list.
Sorry Paul, I meant AspectJ.
I do not understand the incompatibility between Dynamic proxies and
BeanShell. What is it.
Did you try pnuts? I already found a documented way to run a pnuts
compiled class, although it demands
From: acoliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:35:55 - James Strachan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote.
JMS is not
appropriate for a number of areas.
Like what?
UI, guaranteed failure situations.
I don't follow. JMS/MOM is one of the only solutions where clients and
servers work
From: James Strachan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
(*) One thing I've noticed with SOAP is that developers from the
different
camps (web/MOM, CORBA/EJB) seem to see SOAP as different things. The
web/MOM
guys tend to think of SOAP as a universal message format so the same
structured message
From: Steve Downey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Most objects don't work if they are made distributed without careful
consideration.
I wonder if that has to be the case. Right now, our distributed object
containers are blissfully stupid. We (humans) can point at any
individual class or
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