Dňa Sat, 3 Mar 2007 20:46:35 -0700
Daniel Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] napísal:
On 3/3/07, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why is it a developer-only privilege? You just made that up.
To co-lead a Gentoo project? You need to be a dev to do that. I
couldn't join any projects even as
On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 11:40:39AM -0800, Josh Saddler wrote:
zOMG Cabal conspiracy!!1oneone!
So, who'se conspiring against you now? Devrel? The Council? Oh...*Brian*
this time. Or just anyone whom you've never liked or has disagreed with
you about anything?
Oh wait, I bet you think we're
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 20:46:35 -0700
Daniel Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To co-lead a Gentoo project? You need to be a dev to do that. I
couldn't join any projects even as a member until I became a dev, and
I created the distro. You are effectively co-leading (likely leading)
PMS as a
Daniel Robbins wrote:
On 3/3/07, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why is it a developer-only privilege? You just made that up.
To co-lead a Gentoo project? You need to be a dev to do that. I
couldn't join any projects even as a member until I became a dev, and
I created the distro.
Daniel Robbins wrote:
On 3/3/07, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why is it a developer-only privilege? You just made that up.
To co-lead a Gentoo project? You need to be a dev to do that. I
couldn't join any projects even as a member until I became a dev, and
I created the distro.
On Sun, 2007-03-04 at 10:21 +, Duncan wrote:
Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted
[EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted
below, on Sat, 03 Mar 2007 21:35:16 +0700:
On 2/27/07, Andrej Kacian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Because it's much more convenient to just go emerge theme instead of
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 20:46:35 -0700 Daniel Robbins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 3/3/07, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why is it a developer-only privilege? You just made that up.
To co-lead a Gentoo project?
I'm not co-leading it. You keep making things up. Stop doing that.
--
On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 08:46:35PM -0700, Daniel Robbins wrote:
[snip]
Would you be kind enough to stop hijacking the thread ? You are
responsible for this last flame... just quit it please.
- ferdy
--
Fernando J. Pereda Garcimartín
Gentoo Developer (Alpha,net-mail,mutt,git)
20BB BDC3 761A
On Sun, 2007-03-04 at 14:27 +0100, Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:
See tracker bug (http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163921).
guile-1.8 may go stable soon because of a security bug in gnucash (bug
167706).
I think all blocking bugs which are still open, can be fixed by either adding
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 13:17:56 -0700
Daniel Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, again, since you are participating as a key member in an official
Gentoo project, which is a developer-only privilege, you should either
have your dev access reinstated or be removed from the project.
This is
Today, being a dev (which essentially means having commit access
to Gentoo repositories) is mostly about taking responsibility for what
is finally committed.
FWIW, FreeBSD has a long and glorious history of proxy-maintainership in
their ports tree -- that model seems to work pretty well for
I note that FSF-Europe uses what it calls a Fiduciary Licence
Agreement to gain the ability to prosecute license violations for
software whose copyright is distributed amongst many owners.
Discussion here:
http://www.fsf-europe.org/projects/fla/fla.html
and the boilerplate for FTF's agreement in
I was bored yesterday, so i have updated and re-run an old script i had
which tries to find ebuilds doing things like that:
DEPEND=foo? ( cat-bar/libfoo )
src_compile() {
econf || die
emake || die
}
The problem here is that, if libfoo is installed, it will be linked to
even
In defense of my confusion, certainly appears from the perspective of
the gentoo-dev ml that you are leading at the very least the
day-to-day management of the project.
But if I am wrong, I *sincerely* apologize. Let me see if I have all
the facts right.
Summary Of PMS:
PMS is a project that
Daniel Robbins wrote:
Rationale: You (Ciaran) have already been explicitly banned from
Gentoo development yet are acting as the project's official spokesman
on this list which is clearly a Gentoo development list. I am asking
that you have a basic respect for your removal from Gentoo, despite
OK. If that's not possible, I'll push for the banned from gentoo
development status as it obviously makes sense, will help Gentoo, and
will not impact PMS. If Ciaran is sticking around on this list using
PMS as a pretext to insult various people and projects, then this is
more than acceptable
Hello Daniel
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 10:32:40AM -0700, Daniel Robbins wrote:
If people are truly concerned about productivity, then I would expect
them to support it.
To me it seems that you aren't concerned about productivity, otherwise
you wouldn't top-post. Please stop doing it and learn
Dňa Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:32:40 -0700
Daniel Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] napísal:
Really, I don't see any reason for any party to fight my suggestion,
as it would benefit everyone. If people are truly concerned about
productivity, then I would expect them to support it.
I am concerned about PMS to
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:03:54 -0700 Daniel Robbins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In defense of my confusion, certainly appears from the perspective of
the gentoo-dev ml that you are leading at the very least the
day-to-day management of the project.
No, as I've already told you, I'm just the one who
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:32:40 -0700 Daniel Robbins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Really, I don't see any reason for any party to fight my suggestion,
as it would benefit everyone. If people are truly concerned about
productivity, then I would expect them to support it.
If people are truly concerned
On Sun, 2007-03-04 at 12:55 +0200, Petteri Räty wrote:
The Gentoo Java project has many users contributing to it and I wouldn't
have it any other way.
Users contributing is one thing. A former dev that was kicked now
contributing as a user is quite different IMHO.
One strike is not the same
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 10:32:40AM -0700, Daniel Robbins wrote:
OK. If that's not possible, I'll push for the banned from gentoo
development status as it obviously makes sense, will help Gentoo, and
will not impact PMS. If Ciaran is sticking around on this list using
PMS as a pretext to insult
Dňa Sun, 04 Mar 2007 13:24:32 -0500
William L. Thomson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] napísal:
The Gentoo Java project has many users contributing to it and I wouldn't
have it any other way.
Users contributing is one thing. A former dev that was kicked now
contributing as a user is quite
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
It's
wasting everyone's time and annoying a lot of people.
This sniplet was brought to you by the almighty Flaming Guide [1]:
| One thing is to frequently refer to us or our. Pretend like people
| are with you on this, so the uncertain ones will flock to your side!
|
|
I hope this does not generate many if any replies.
Some might seen Daniel as a deserter, sell out for leaving much less
going to work for M$, and so on. Granted while he was gone, many things
have changed. I am sure he is trying to catch up on all that. I am also
sure he is appreciative and
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:15:36 -0500 William L. Thomson Jr.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I we can cut him some slack, and we should all have some level of
respect, at least in public, towards the father, creator, and founder
of Gentoo.
What kind of response do you think anyone else would have
Maybe if Ciaran recognized his past faults, begged pardon and promised
to be kinder from now and on, everything would be easier for everyone,
everything would calm down.
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:15:36 -0500 William L. Thomson Jr.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I we can cut
On Sun, 2007-03-04 at 19:23 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
What kind of response do you think anyone else would have received had
they started repeatedly attacking a project when they didn't even know
what that project was, repeatedly tried to interfere with the
management of a project when
Ciaran,
What I do know is that you should not be allowed to insult random
developers like Jakub when it suits you. If things get slightly more
unpleasant or unproductive for a brief period of time while I find an
appropriate mechanism to remove you from this list (due to AWOL
project
On Sunday 04 March 2007, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
Would that project even exist if it weren't for Daniel's past efforts
and contributions?
if you want to go that route, why dont we all get down on our knees and praise
the GNU project for everything they've done, over and over again (which
Will,
I appreciate the spirit of what you posted, but I want to be clear
that I do not expect or request any special treatment, so I don't
agree with you.
We should *always* have some level of respect of gentoo-dev,
regardless of who we're talking to.
-Daniel
On 3/4/07, William L. Thomson Jr.
I never said I was informed :)
It was helpful to have some things confirmed by people other than Ciaran.
-Daniel
On 3/4/07, William L. Thomson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, 2007-03-04 at 19:23 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
What kind of response do you think anyone else would have
I agree, the post was well intentioned but as I said before I can't
agree with what was suggested.
On 3/4/07, Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sunday 04 March 2007, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
Would that project even exist if it weren't for Daniel's past efforts
and contributions?
Yep, I agree. Thanks everyone for being tolerant of my confusion and
disruption while I look for a way to remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev.
-Daniel
On 3/4/07, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:15:36 -0500 William L. Thomson Jr.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I we can
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:14:14 -0700 Daniel Robbins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It was helpful to have some things confirmed by people other than
Ciaran.
So now you're calling me a liar too? If you meant something else by
that remark, please explain, because I'm having a very hard time coming
up with
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 01:17:03PM -0700, Daniel Robbins wrote:
Yep, I agree. Thanks everyone for being tolerant of my confusion and
disruption while I look for a way to remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev.
Stop it. You don't like him, fine. I personally don't like you, no
problem. And many people
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:03:39 -0700 Daniel Robbins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If anyone should apologize, the Gentoo project leadership should
apologize for not removing you from the list sooner. This project is
screwed if people who act like you are allowed to stick around.
One more time. Please
That's actually a very good idea. I definitely don't want to be
associated with this project.
-Daniel
On 3/4/07, Fernando J. Pereda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 01:17:03PM -0700, Daniel Robbins wrote:
Yep, I agree. Thanks everyone for being tolerant of my confusion and
C'mon, I am not calling you a liar. I just don't always take
everything you say at face value. Call it a trust issue.
-Daniel
On 3/4/07, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:14:14 -0700 Daniel Robbins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It was helpful to have some things
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 01:46:38PM -0700, Daniel Robbins wrote:
C'mon, I am not calling you a liar. I just don't always take
everything you say at face value. Call it a trust issue.
-Daniel
On 3/4/07, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:14:14 -0700 Daniel
Daniel Robbins wrote:
Yep, I agree. Thanks everyone for being tolerant of my confusion and
disruption while I look for a way to remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev.
Daniel,
Are you saying that all of your comments regarding PMS
were made solely for the purpose of removing Ciaran from
the gentoo-dev
Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
Please go back to your hacking and improve Gentoo. You just can't
'remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev', live with it, or leave Gentoo if you
don't like the way we do things now.
I agree. Daniel, you need to accept the fact that you no longer have the
power to do any
On 3/4/07, Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
you've managed to launch groundless attacks against
me, a whole bunch of other Gentoo developers, the Council, the
Foundation and devrel.
Well, I think it's a good thing to question whether the Council, the
Foundation and devrel are really
Ciaran McCreesh wrote the following on 04.03.2007 21:26 :
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:14:14 -0700 Daniel Robbins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It was helpful to have some things confirmed by people other than
Ciaran.
So now you're calling me a liar too? [...]
I followed this discussion
No, I did not say that _all_ of my comments were solely for that
purpose. However, I personally would not stay subscribed to gentoo-dev
with Ciaran on the list. I think there are others who have the same
perspective and tend to either ignore -dev or have unsubscribed.
Ciaran is also clearly
Hi Daniel,
On 3/4/07, Daniel Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just as a note, I've resigned as a Gentoo dev so I'm going to at some
point today unsubscribe from -dev and stop replying to -dev emails.
-Daniel
Thanks for trying, but Gentoo just has too many folks who don't
understand the issue
Hi Stu,
I think you're right regarding the current lack of shared culture,
as you put it, and the lack of will to do anything about it.
As for what I'm doing next with my time, let me just say that Ciaran
need not fear for his personal safety :) Other than that, we will see.
I'm open to ideas.
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 09:51:34PM +, Stuart Herbert wrote:
What do you plan on doing next with your time?
How cute, but please take this in private and not in the list. Honestly,
we do not care...
--
Alexander Færøy
Bugday Lead
Alpha/IA64/MIPS Architecture Teams
User Relations, Quality
Alexander Færøy napsal(a):
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 09:51:34PM +, Stuart Herbert wrote:
What do you plan on doing next with your time?
How cute, but please take this in private and not in the list. Honestly,
we do not care...
I certainly do care - more than I could ever care about all
a video sent to out by a good mate
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645
++
I think recruiters should keep this link in mind.
--
Best Regards,
Piotr Jaroszyński
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Be careful, I'm now a Gentoo user, and you're on userrel. Userrel
shouldn't launch gratuitious insults at Gentoo users. Thank you for
not caring.
-Daniel
On 3/4/07, Alexander Færøy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 09:51:34PM +, Stuart Herbert wrote:
What do you plan on
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 11:19:35PM +0100, Piotr Jaroszy??ski wrote:
a video sent to out by a good mate
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645
++
I think recruiters should keep this link in mind.
And do what? It's terribly hard to spot poisonous people in advance so
And do what?
And hand it to the new devs. That's all I meant ;]
--
Best Regards,
Piotr Jaroszyński
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Hi,
recruitment was too focused on technical skills
Yes, this is my point of view too. It can even be discouraging to people
wishing to help with gentoo. That's probably why it is so hard to renew
developer pool. I have been involved in gentoo for nearly 5 years now (2
officialy), but
On Sat, 2007-03-03 at 07:32 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
I'm also curious as to why people should be expected to assign
copyright to a group that is known for licence violations and removing
attribution from documents. How does this protect anything?
Yeah, you cry foul when people paint you
Hi,
recruitment was too focused on technical skills
Yes, this is my point of view too. It can even be discouraging to people
wishing to help with gentoo. That's probably why it is so hard to renew
developer pool. I have been involved in gentoo for nearly 5 years now (2
officialy), but
Daniel Robbins wrote:
However, I personally would not stay subscribed to gentoo-dev
with Ciaran on the list.
So, instead of quietly un-subscribing you launch in a huge flamefest,
by hijacking an important discussion thread.
I think there are others who have the same
perspective and tend to
Hubert Mercier wrote:
That's probably why it is so hard to renew developer pool.
Why do people keep repeating this myth? As kloeri pointed out,
developer base keeps growing constantly.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Seemant Kulleen napsal(a):
On Sat, 2007-03-03 at 07:32 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
I'm also curious as to why people should be expected to assign
copyright to a group that is known for licence violations and removing
attribution from documents. How does this protect anything?
Yeah, you
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:03:54 -0700
Daniel Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
a) move PMS discussion off this list
That is the whole joke here: It was more or less you who started this
discussion.
The original mail was Mike mentioning something about a
deadline on the PMS project as agenda item for
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 00:08:40 +0100 Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yeah, you cry foul when people paint you with an overly broad
brush. Is it known? As far as I remember, the issue was
acknowledged when brought up, and then fixed. The issue hasn't
come up again with your docs. It
Ciaran McCreesh napsal(a):
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 00:08:40 +0100 Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Erm, to be precise here, noone has removed any ciaranm's attributions
from devmanual, they've all been moved to the end of the document
originally, so that people wouldn't be forced to scroll
Hi,
Why do people keep repeating this myth? As kloeri pointed out,
developer base keeps growing constantly.
That's really a good news. And yo're right of course, developer base keeps
growing. But... A problem remains : is a fresh developer as efficient
as a guru devlopper ?. Of course, I
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 11:31:56PM +, Hubert Mercier wrote:
What is more, even if Gentoo is always growing, why are people leaving ?
Personal reasons ? No, in fact I read carefully each of the retire mails
in the last year : very often people are just fed up with conflicts,
tired of
No response means no objections means in it goes.
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 01:07:47 +
Stephen Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can't remember whether I already mailed about this, but better safe
than sorry. Currently /etc/env.d is added to CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK in
make.globals, and as far as i
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 23:31:56 + (UTC) Hubert Mercier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the last months, a some talented devs gone, and a few others were
thinking to do so. How much more before deciding to simplify our
organisation ?
Simplifying it won't help. If Gentoo wants more developers, it
Daniel Robbins wrote:
Ciaran,
What I do know is that you should not be allowed to insult random
developers like Jakub when it suits you. If things get slightly more
unpleasant or unproductive for a brief period of time while I find an
appropriate mechanism to remove you from this list (due to
The attached list notes all of the packages that were added or removed
from the tree, for the week ending 2007-03-04 23h59 UTC.
Removals:
sys-devel/gcc-compat2007-02-26 01:35:38 vapier
net-misc/nxserver-business 2007-02-26 22:34:19 genstef
I already removed myself from Gentoo - no need. Will be unsubscribing
from -dev at the end of the day.
On 3/4/07, bret curtis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Daniel Robbins wrote:
Ciaran,
What I do know is that you should not be allowed to insult random
developers like Jakub when it suits you. If
bret curtis napsal(a):
No, you sir, should not be here.
I've been a 'developer' since before you left us for Microsoft. I've
read the -dev and -core since that time, only chiming in from time to
time but this frankly is crazy.
This sniplet was brought to you by the almighty Flaming Guide
Hi,
Disclaimer**:
this mail is not meant to point the finger at someone, as I (thankfully)
don't know enough about who did what first to whom to do that; in fact,
I think no one does at this point.
Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:
On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 23:31:56 + (UTC) Hubert Mercier
[EMAIL
Bryan Østergaard kloeri at gentoo.org writes:
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 11:16:47PM +0100, Jakub Moc wrote:
Alexander Færøy napsal(a):
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 09:51:34PM +, Stuart Herbert wrote:
What do you plan on doing next with your time?
How cute, but please take this in
Bryan Østergaard napsal(a):
On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 11:31:56PM +, Hubert Mercier wrote:
What is more, even if Gentoo is always growing, why are people leaving ?
Personal reasons ? No, in fact I read carefully each of the retire mails
in the last year : very often people are just fed up
Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
By trying to silence parties involved in a disagreement you only force their
differences to manifest in less desirble ways. And when that happens, things
tend to get really ugly and it inevitably reflects back on Gentoo.
Also, brushing things over to private email and
On Sun, Mar 04 2007 19:22, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh wrote:
That's an interesting idea. It would be nice to have a discussion ML,
which would have one simple rule enforced. Any discussion _must_
follow formal logic rules.
Ensuring that rule is followed could be done in a few different ways.
Oh, and another idea is to have somewhat more real-time debates
on IRC. Procedure could be fairly simple: it would still have a jury
group overseeing it. Participants would get voice in turn, present
their arguments and counter-arguments. If a participant repeatedly
fails to answer opponent's
Angel Olivera wrote:
On Sun, Mar 04 2007 19:22, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh wrote:
That's an interesting idea. It would be nice to have a discussion ML,
which would have one simple rule enforced. Any discussion _must_
follow formal logic rules.
Ensuring that rule is followed could be done
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