On 01/01/12 03:53 AM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
The goal is to deprecate /bin, /lib, /sbin and /usr/sbin. My
understanding is that they want to move software that is installed in
/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin to /usr/bin. Also, they want to
On 01/03/2012 10:53 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
On 01/01/12 03:53 AM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
The goal is to deprecate /bin, /lib, /sbin and /usr/sbin. My
understanding is that they want to move software that is installed in
/bin,
On 02/01/12 12:54 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
The one thing I
haven't figured out yet is whether it is possible to create an
initramfs that doesn't have to be updated with every kernel upgrade.
I'm not sure if there is dracut-specific issues that would relate to
this, but the
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:08:09 -0500
G.Wolfe Woodbury redwo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 01/03/2012 10:53 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
On 01/01/12 03:53 AM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
The goal is to deprecate /bin, /lib, /sbin and /usr/sbin.
On 03/01/12 10:10 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
Unfortunately, it isn't going to be as simple as switching away from
udev. This move is going to move all software from /bin, /sbin and /lib
to /usr/bin and /usr/lib. The end result is going to be that regardless
of whether you are using mdev or udev
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:08 AM, G.Wolfe Woodbury redwo...@gmail.com wrote:
It
is getting to the point that the security aspects of having a read-only
mount for userspace executables is being overridden by developer fiat.
Can you clarify what you mean by this? I think the whole reason that
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:40:02AM -0500, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
I don't think anyone's asked this yet:
Do we NEED to deprecate /bin,/sbin,/usr/sbin,/lib ? I realize that
udev/kmod/systemd are moving, but there isn't anything in particular
that would require everything else to move, is
Hi,
On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 10:41 +0200, Eray Aslan wrote:
On 2012-01-01 11:50 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
systemd/dracut/etc handles /usr on its own filesystem just fine. What is
required is that /usr must be mounted before the pivot_root away from
the initramfs.
RedHat made some bad design
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 13:50:25 -0500
Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org wrote:
There is a good reason for that, because in-place upgrades are
impossible to do safely (and RedHat customers don't accept weird
breakages like Gentoo users do). For example, if you replace a library
or even a resource
On 03-01-2012 13:02:55 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:50:25PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
I don't see what breakage would be caused by a big-bang update (move
everything in /sbin,/bin/,usr/sbin to usr/bin and add symlinks. I really
doubt any system has a /usr so
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 12:36 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:40:02AM -0500, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
Side note - if /lib is getting moved, does that mean /lib/modules is
moving to /usr/lib/modules too? So kernel modules are no longer on root?
This is an interesting
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 13:02 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:50:25PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
I don't see what breakage would be caused by a big-bang update (move
everything in /sbin,/bin/,usr/sbin to usr/bin and add symlinks. I really
doubt any system has a /usr so
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 1:36 PM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
Well, I don't think everything is going to move immediately. The way I
see this happening is, udev/systemd/kmod are moving first, then other
upstreams will move their software.
Agreed. If only a few packages have issues
On 03-01-2012 14:19:22 -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 12:36 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:40:02AM -0500, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
Side note - if /lib is getting moved, does that mean /lib/modules is
moving to /usr/lib/modules too? So kernel
2012/1/3 Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org:
A couple years ago, Gentoo was the forward looking distribution, ready
to try radical changes that break existing assumption, like our init
scripts with dependencies or our early use of udev. These days, I see so
much resistance to progress, it makes
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 12:06 AM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:40:02AM -0500, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
I don't think anyone's asked this yet:
Do we NEED to deprecate /bin,/sbin,/usr/sbin,/lib ? I realize that
udev/kmod/systemd are moving, but there isn't
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 02:19:39PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 13:02 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:50:25PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
I don't see what breakage would be caused by a big-bang update (move
everything in /sbin,/bin/,usr/sbin to
On 03-01-2012 13:39:14 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
in /usr/lib/modules even though the kernel installs them
in /lib/modules.. So yes, upstream will force these symlinks on us too.
I just looked at the commit in kmod for this. It can be worked around
with a ./configure switch until the
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
part of). For example, if eventually you can't run gnome without
systemd where does that leave bsd gentoo users?
Is Mesa support on BSD really all that up-to-date these days? I don't
expect that they keep up with bugfixes
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 08:12:06PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I think the best way to do this part of it is going to be to just follow
the upstream packages. When they release a new version that installs in
/usr, just allow that to happen. Eventually there will be very little in
On Tue, 2012-01-03 at 14:35 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:
2012/1/3 Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org:
A couple years ago, Gentoo was the forward looking distribution, ready
to try radical changes that break existing assumption, like our init
scripts with dependencies or our early use of udev.
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 01:50:25PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 10:41 +0200, Eray Aslan wrote:
RedHat made some bad design decisions on RPM (.rpmnew files anyone?) and
udev. Udev was probably salvagable before systemd but noone has the
motivation or the man-power to
On 03-01-2012 14:01:20 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 08:12:06PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I think the best way to do this part of it is going to be to just follow
the upstream packages. When they release a new version that installs in
/usr, just allow that to
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 03:21:47PM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
I use a separate /usr with LVM on all my systems. My root partition uses
RAID1. And I never had the need for an initramfs of any kind. Also, there
are some major hurdles to take when it comes to getting an initramfs working
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 10:22:15PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I'll have to go through on my system at
least and find all of the ebuilds that install things in
/{bin,sbin,lib}. I'll open a tracker bug as soon as udev-176 is
released; this will list all of the things we need to do to
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 17:09:18 -0600
William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 10:22:15PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I'll have to go through on my system at
least and find all of the ebuilds that install things in
/{bin,sbin,lib}. I'll open a tracker bug as soon as
William Hubbs schrieb:
On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 10:22:15PM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
I'll have to go through on my system at
least and find all of the ebuilds that install things in
/{bin,sbin,lib}. I'll open a tracker bug as soon as udev-176 is
released; this will list all of the things
On 2012-01-01 11:50 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
systemd/dracut/etc handles /usr on its own filesystem just fine. What is
required is that /usr must be mounted before the pivot_root away from
the initramfs.
Nitpick: I don't think pivot_root is used anymore. It is basically
unlink, mount, chroot
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Sven Vermeulen sw...@gentoo.org wrote:
And how does dracut know which files it needs to mount my /usr?
I assume based on the selection of modules that you enabled when
building/running it.
I believe dracut builds static binaries, so it mainly needs updating
when
On 3 January 2012 01:58, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Sven Vermeulen sw...@gentoo.org wrote:
And how does dracut know which files it needs to mount my /usr?
I assume based on the selection of modules that you enabled when
building/running it.
I
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 07:58:00 -0500
Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Sven Vermeulen sw...@gentoo.org
wrote:
And how does dracut know which files it needs to mount my /usr?
I assume based on the selection of modules that you enabled when
building/running
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 11:54:57 -0600
William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
For a long-term view, 1) is the only way to go. Splitting packages
randomly between rootfs and /usr was never really correct, and we
especially shouldn't force users to junk their systems with
shattered packages
On Mon, Jan 02, 2012 at 07:37:41PM +0100, Michał Górny wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 11:54:57 -0600
William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
For a long-term view, 1) is the only way to go. Splitting packages
randomly between rootfs and /usr was never really correct, and we
especially
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
The goal is to deprecate /bin, /lib, /sbin and /usr/sbin. My
understanding is that they want to move software that is installed in
/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin to /usr/bin. Also, they want to move
everything from /lib to /usr/lib.
I
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Sven Vermeulen sw...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
The goal is to deprecate /bin, /lib, /sbin and /usr/sbin. My
understanding is that they want to move software that is installed in
/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin to
Sven Vermeulen wrote:
But if people really want to focus on initramfs, I'd appreciate some
documentation help on it. Not only on how to create one, but also why
it is necessary, how to manage initramfs'es, the concepts underlying,
etc. Wkr, Sven Vermeulen
This is my issue as well. I tried
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
This is my issue as well. I tried to make a init* to deal with this and
have yet to get one to work, not one single working boot up. I have tried
different howtos and not one of them produced anything that works. I have
not
Rich Freeman wrote:
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
This is my issue as well. I tried to make a init* to deal with this and
have yet to get one to work, not one single working boot up. I have tried
different howtos and not one of them produced anything that
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 02:12:22AM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
1) Start migrating packages along with upstream and have everyone who
has a separate /usr (including me by the way) start using an initramfs
of some kind, either dracut or one that we generate specifically for
gentoo. The
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:59:47 -0600
William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
I see three options:
1) Start migrating packages along with upstream and have everyone who
has a separate /usr (including me by the way) start using an initramfs
of some kind, either dracut or one that we generate
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 02:12:22 -0500
Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org wrote:
The udev/kmod/systemd/dracut effort to standardise the base userspace
of Linux is probably scary for quite a few Gentoo-ers as it means
that the end result of an installed Gentoo system will be less
differentiated than
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 01:33 -0600, Matthew Thode wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 02:12:22 -0500
Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org wrote:
All of my systems currently have a seperate /usr that is mounted at
boot. Unfortunately I do agree that this is not something that we can
fight. This was brought
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 01:33:05 -0600
Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) prometheanf...@gentoo.org wrote:
All of my systems currently have a seperate /usr that is mounted at
boot. Unfortunately I do agree that this is not something that we can
fight. This was brought up earlier and the only thing we
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 15:33 +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
On 01/01/12 15:12, Olivier Crête wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, 2011-12-31 at 19:59 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
I have been working with robbat2 on solutions to the separate /usr issue
(That is why I have specifically cc'd him on this email)
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 08:53 +, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 07:59:47PM -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
1) Start migrating packages along with upstream and have everyone who
has a separate /usr (including me by the way) start using an initramfs
of some kind, either dracut or
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 15:21:24 -0500
Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org wrote:
Honestly, so many things just work on MacOS and just need hours of
tweaking for us..
The problem with just works is that when it breaks, it can't be
fixed. Not being able to handle /usr on its own filesystem is a perfect
Olivier Crête wrote:
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 01:33 -0600, Matthew Thode wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 02:12:22 -0500
Olivier Crêtetes...@gentoo.org wrote:
All of my systems currently have a seperate /usr that is mounted at
boot. Unfortunately I do agree that this is not something that we can
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 14:51 -0600, Dale wrote:
Olivier Crête wrote:
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 01:33 -0600, Matthew Thode wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 02:12:22 -0500
Olivier Crêtetes...@gentoo.org wrote:
All of my systems currently have a seperate /usr that is mounted at
boot. Unfortunately
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 20:23 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 15:21:24 -0500
Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org wrote:
Honestly, so many things just work on MacOS and just need hours of
tweaking for us..
The problem with just works is that when it breaks, it can't be
fixed.
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 02:12:22AM -0500, Olivier Crête wrote:
The OpenRC/baselayout-2 fiasco, not much better than baselayout-1 and
unmaintained upstream shows that even a relatively large
Why do you say that OpenRC is unmaintained upstream? OpenRC is actively
maintained in Gentoo, with the
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 8:59 AM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
Udev, kmod (which is a replacement for module-init-tools which will be needed
by =udev-176), systemd, and soon others, are advocating a major change
to the locations where binaries and libraries are stored on linux
Hi,
On Sat, 2011-12-31 at 19:59 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
I have been working with robbat2 on solutions to the separate /usr issue
(That is why I have specifically cc'd him on this email)
which will allow people to not use an initramfs. If we migrate
everything off of the root fs to /usr,
On 01/01/12 15:12, Olivier Crête wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, 2011-12-31 at 19:59 -0600, William Hubbs wrote:
I have been working with robbat2 on solutions to the separate /usr issue
(That is why I have specifically cc'd him on this email)
which will allow people to not use an initramfs. If we migrate
101 - 153 of 153 matches
Mail list logo
