On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 05:27:46PM +, Jeremy Olexa wrote:
>
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:28:29 +, Alec Warner
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Dale wrote:
>
> >> As a user, I still think this could turn into a real mess. ??I think
> there
> >> will be quite a few that will see
George Prowse wrote:
On 26/03/2010 17:43, Dale wrote:
It's not faith, its reality. There will be some people that don't
subscribe to this list that will do what is above. This IS the reason I
subscribed to this list. I wanted to know what the devs were doing under
the hood that would lead me to
On 26/03/2010 17:43, Dale wrote:
It's not faith, its reality. There will be some people that don't
subscribe to this list that will do what is above. This IS the reason I
subscribed to this list. I wanted to know what the devs were doing under
the hood that would lead me to screw up my system. It
Alec Warner wrote:
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Dale wrote:
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
2010-03-26 16:40:37 Brian Harring napisał(a):
There really isn't a precedent since upgrades of this sort typically
either have extremely locked down deps, or just plai
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:28:29 +, Alec Warner
wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Dale wrote:
>> As a user, I still think this could turn into a real mess. I think
there
>> will be quite a few that will see python being updated, run
python-updater
>> and switch it to the new python. A
2010-03-26 17:15:42 Brian Harring napisał(a):
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 05:04:28PM +0100, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> wrote:
> > 2010-03-26 16:43:57 Brian Harring napisał(a):
> > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 03:22:52PM +0100, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar
> > > Arahesis wrote:
> > > > Arfreve
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Dale wrote:
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>>
>> 2010-03-26 16:40:37 Brian Harring napisał(a):
>>
>>>
>>> There really isn't a precedent since upgrades of this sort typically
>>> either have extremely locked down deps, or just plain don't happen
>>> t
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 05:04:28PM +0100, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
wrote:
> 2010-03-26 16:43:57 Brian Harring napisał(a):
> > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 03:22:52PM +0100, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar
> > Arahesis wrote:
> > > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis 2010-03-25 20:05:17 napisał(a
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
2010-03-26 16:40:37 Brian Harring napisał(a):
There really isn't a precedent since upgrades of this sort typically
either have extremely locked down deps, or just plain don't happen
till the vast majority of depndencies are updated. If in doubt, lo
2010-03-26 16:43:57 Brian Harring napisał(a):
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 03:22:52PM +0100, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> wrote:
> > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis 2010-03-25 20:05:17 napisał(a):
> > > 2010-03-25 19:34:24 Roy Bamford napisał(a):
> > > > The case where Python-3 cannot be
2010-03-26 16:40:37 Brian Harring napisał(a):
> There really isn't a precedent since upgrades of this sort typically
> either have extremely locked down deps, or just plain don't happen
> till the vast majority of depndencies are updated. If in doubt, look
> at the past python upgrades- they've
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 03:22:52PM +0100, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
wrote:
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis 2010-03-25 20:05:17 napisał(a):
> > 2010-03-25 19:34:24 Roy Bamford napisał(a):
> > > The case where Python-3 cannot be used as the default Python is
> > > transitory (it may
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 05:35:19AM -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
> On 03/24/2010 08:47 PM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:12:55 -0500
> > William Hubbs wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:36:52PM +0100, Ben de Groot wrote:
> >>> We agree that this is the minimum that should be
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis 2010-03-25 20:05:17 napisał(a):
> 2010-03-25 19:34:24 Roy Bamford napisał(a):
> > The case where Python-3 cannot be used as the default Python is
> > transitory (it may be a long time).
>
> Gentoo Python Project will soon start supporting setting Python 3 as ma
On 03/24/2010 08:47 PM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:12:55 -0500
> William Hubbs wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:36:52PM +0100, Ben de Groot wrote:
>>> We agree that this is the minimum that should be done. But our
>>> Python lead stubbornly refuses to honor this reasonab
El vie, 26-03-2010 a las 05:10 -0700, Zac Medico escribió:
> > Hello
> >
> > Maybe I have misunderstood anything (since I don't know much about
> > python stuff) but, what would occur if I forget to mask python-3 and
> > don't run python-updater. My plans would be to try to delay
> > python-update
On 03/26/2010 12:59 AM, Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:
> On Thursday 25 March 2010 20:05:17 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>> 2010-03-25 19:34:24 Roy Bamford napisał(a):
>>> On 2010.03.24 21:12, William Hubbs wrote:
>>> The case where Python-3 cannot be used as the default Python is
>>
On 03/26/2010 02:02 AM, Pacho Ramos wrote:
> El jue, 25-03-2010 a las 11:37 -0400, Richard Freeman escribió:
>> On 03/24/2010 11:47 PM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
>>> Even then, it'll likely get
>>> installed first, as users will probably learn about p.masking it only
>>> *after* they install it.
>>
>>
El jue, 25-03-2010 a las 11:37 -0400, Richard Freeman escribió:
> On 03/24/2010 11:47 PM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
> > Even then, it'll likely get
> > installed first, as users will probably learn about p.masking it only
> > *after* they install it.
>
> I don't have strong feelings on whether having
On Thursday 25 March 2010 20:05:17 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> 2010-03-25 19:34:24 Roy Bamford napisał(a):
> > On 2010.03.24 21:12, William Hubbs wrote:
> > The case where Python-3 cannot be used as the default Python is
> > transitory (it may be a long time).
>
> Gentoo Python P
2010-03-25 19:34:24 Roy Bamford napisał(a):
> On 2010.03.24 21:12, William Hubbs wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:36:52PM +0100, Ben de Groot wrote:
> > > On 24 March 2010 21:25, William Hubbs wrote:
> > > > If we make it clear in the news item that python-3 cannot be used
> > as the
> > > >
On 2010.03.24 21:12, William Hubbs wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:36:52PM +0100, Ben de Groot wrote:
> > On 24 March 2010 21:25, William Hubbs wrote:
> > > If we make it clear in the news item that python-3 cannot be used
> as the
> > > default python, so if users do not want it they should m
On 03/24/2010 11:47 PM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
Even then, it'll likely get
installed first, as users will probably learn about p.masking it only
*after* they install it.
I don't have strong feelings on whether having v3 installed by default
is a big problem, but the last bit here probably shoul
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:12:55 -0500
William Hubbs wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:36:52PM +0100, Ben de Groot wrote:
> > We agree that this is the minimum that should be done. But our
> > Python lead stubbornly refuses to honor this reasonable request.
>
> On the other hand, I can see his p
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:36:52PM +0100, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 24 March 2010 21:25, William Hubbs wrote:
> > If we make it clear in the news item that python-3 cannot be used as the
> > default python, so if users do not want it they should mask it, we have
> > done our job imho. In other wor
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:36:52PM +0100, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 24 March 2010 21:25, William Hubbs wrote:
> > If we make it clear in the news item that python-3 cannot be used as the
> > default python, so if users do not want it they should mask it, we have
> > done our job imho. In other wor
On 24 March 2010 21:25, William Hubbs wrote:
> If we make it clear in the news item that python-3 cannot be used as the
> default python, so if users do not want it they should mask it, we have
> done our job imho. In other words, this is just a matter of informing
> users.
We agree that this is
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 08:57:20PM +0100, Thomas Sachau wrote:
> Am 24.03.2010 19:03, schrieb William Hubbs:
> > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 05:47:18PM +, Jeremy Olexa wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:32:37 -0700, Joshua Saddler
> >> wrote:
> > But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . .
Am 24.03.2010 19:03, schrieb William Hubbs:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 05:47:18PM +, Jeremy Olexa wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:32:37 -0700, Joshua Saddler
>> wrote:
> But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . .
>
> Really? I've seen a few people object, but not everyone in gentoo.
>
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 02:41:28PM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote:
> On 03/24/2010 02:28 PM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:04:51 +0100 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar
> > Arahesis wrote:
> >> People, don't want Python 3, probably have already masked it. There
> >> is no reason to waste
On 24 March 2010 19:41, Richard Freeman wrote:
> On 03/24/2010 02:28 PM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:04:51 +0100 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar
>> Arahesis wrote:
>>>
>>> People, don't want Python 3, probably have already masked it. There
>>> is no reason to waste Council's tim
On 03/24/2010 02:28 PM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:04:51 +0100 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar
Arahesis wrote:
People, don't want Python 3, probably have already masked it. There
is no reason to waste Council's time for decision on what sentence
should be included in the news item.
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:04:51 +0100
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> People, don't want Python 3, probably have already masked it. There is
> no reason to waste Council's time for decision on what sentence should
> be included in the news item.
Not the folks running the stable tree, be
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 05:47:18PM +, Jeremy Olexa wrote:
>
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:32:37 -0700, Joshua Saddler
> wrote:
> >> > But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . .
Really? I've seen a few people object, but not everyone in gentoo.
> >>
> >> Some Gentoo developers/users, who aren't
2010-03-24 18:51:48 Paweł Hajdan, Jr. napisał(a):
> On 3/24/10 6:35 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> >> All valid concerns about text already included in the news item have been
> >> addressed. We don't need to include any unofficial recommendations.
> >
> > I'll take that as a yes then, you are indeed d
Am 24.03.2010 18:45, schrieb Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis:
> 2010-03-24 18:32:37 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:14:44 +0100
>> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>>> Some Gentoo developers/users, who aren't Python maintainers, said that
>>> they didn't object
On 3/24/10 6:35 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>> All valid concerns about text already included in the news item have been
>> addressed. We don't need to include any unofficial recommendations.
>
> I'll take that as a yes then, you are indeed disregarding the concerns
> and recommendations of your fello
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:32:37 -0700, Joshua Saddler
wrote:
>> > But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . .
>>
>> Some Gentoo developers/users, who aren't Python maintainers, said that
>> they didn't object to have Python 3 installed.
>
> They're in the minority, judging by the replies in this th
2010-03-24 18:32:37 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:14:44 +0100
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>
> > 2010-03-24 17:57:35 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
> > > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:43:56 +0100
> > > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> > > > Python maintaine
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:35:21 +0100
Ben de Groot wrote:
> I'll take that as a yes then, you are indeed disregarding the concerns
> and recommendations of your fellow Gentoo developers.
>
> CC'ing devrel because this is getting out of hand.
Looks like an extremely "productive" thread... /me poin
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 24 March 2010 18:23, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> wrote:
>> 2010-03-24 17:56:48 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
>>> On 24 March 2010 17:43, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
>>> wrote:
>>> > 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:14:44 +0100
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>
>> 2010-03-24 17:57:35 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
>> > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:43:56 +0100
>> > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>> > > Python main
On 24 March 2010 18:23, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
wrote:
> 2010-03-24 17:56:48 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
>> On 24 March 2010 17:43, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
>> wrote:
>> > 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
>> >> On 23 March 2010 20:13, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Ara
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:14:44 +0100
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> 2010-03-24 17:57:35 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
> > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:43:56 +0100
> > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> > > Python maintainers do not recommend to mask Python 3.
> >
> > But everyone e
2010-03-24 17:56:48 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
> On 24 March 2010 17:43, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> wrote:
> > 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
> >> On 23 March 2010 20:13, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> >> wrote:
> >> > I'm attaching updated news item, which will be c
2010-03-24 17:57:35 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:43:56 +0100
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>
> > 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
> > > As mentioned in the other thread, this news item should mention
> > > that users who do not need python-3 shoul
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:43:56 +0100
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
> > As mentioned in the other thread, this news item should mention
> > that users who do not need python-3 should mask it locally to
> > prevent it from being pulled into
On 24 March 2010 17:43, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
wrote:
> 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
>> On 23 March 2010 20:13, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
>> wrote:
>> > I'm attaching updated news item, which will be committed soon.
>>
>> As mentioned in the other thread, th
2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
> On 23 March 2010 20:13, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> wrote:
> > I'm attaching updated news item, which will be committed soon.
>
> As mentioned in the other thread, this news item should mention
> that users who do not need python-3 should m
On 23 March 2010 20:13, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
wrote:
> I'm attaching updated news item, which will be committed soon.
As mentioned in the other thread, this news item should mention
that users who do not need python-3 should mask it locally to
prevent it from being pulled into the d
I'm attaching updated news item, which will be committed soon.
Stabilization has been delayed to 2010-04-21, but members of architecture
projects can start testing now, to ensure that all potential problems have
been found and fixed.
--
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
Title: Python 3.1
Autho
2010-03-04 19:38:12 Paweł Hajdan, Jr. napisał(a):
> On 3/4/10 7:22 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> > 'eselect python COMMAND --python3 [ARGUMENTS]' can be used to manage
> > configuration of active version of Python 3.
>
> I'm confused by the above paragraph. I had to spend a long
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:26:24 +0200
Petteri Räty wrote:
> On 03/07/2010 07:32 PM, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> > no need to stabilize experimental python, not even convinced it should
> > be in ~arch yet (but package.masked for testing)
> I don't think upstream considers python 3 experimental so when i
On 03/07/2010 07:32 PM, Samuli Suominen wrote:
>
> +1
>
> no need to stabilize experimental python, not even convinced it should
> be in ~arch yet (but package.masked for testing)
>
I don't think upstream considers python 3 experimental so when it can be
installed side by side with 2.6 so that
On 03/07/2010 07:11 PM, Mark Loeser wrote:
>
> Absolutely not. Its actually the opposite. Until 90+% of the tree just
> works with the new version of python, it should not be stabilized. The
> stable tree should all Just Work together. Stabilizing python-3 at this
> point would be the equivale
On 03/07/2010 07:11 PM, Mark Loeser wrote:
> Sebastian Pipping said:
>> On 03/04/10 19:22, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>>> All problems, which were blocking stabilization of Python 3, have been
>>> fixed.
>>> Stabilization of Python 3.1.2 is currently scheduled on 2010-04-19.
>>
>>
Sebastian Pipping said:
> On 03/04/10 19:22, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> > All problems, which were blocking stabilization of Python 3, have been
> > fixed.
> > Stabilization of Python 3.1.2 is currently scheduled on 2010-04-19.
>
> #python on Freenode still reads "It's too earl
On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 06:23:03AM +1300, Alistair Bush wrote:
[...]
Guys you should remember that we like to call gentoo a metadistribution [1].
Our users should be taking an active role in the maintenance of the own distro
[...]
As a user I have to thank you very much for this statement. The
> On 5 March 2010 12:24, Zac Medico wrote:
> > It won't be pulled in by sys-apps/portage dependencies which look
> > like this:
> >
> > || ( dev-lang/python:2.8 dev-lang/python:2.7 dev-lang/python:2.6
> >
> >>=dev-lang/python-3 )
> >>
> > If you already have python:2.6 installed then it will no
On 5 March 2010 12:24, Zac Medico wrote:
> It won't be pulled in by sys-apps/portage dependencies which look
> like this:
>
> || ( dev-lang/python:2.8 dev-lang/python:2.7 dev-lang/python:2.6
>>=dev-lang/python-3 )
>
> If you already have python:2.6 installed then it will not pull in a
> new slot.
On 03/05/2010 03:09 AM, Maciej Mrozowski wrote:
> Now on more serious note, ideally python could be treated just like any other
> non-leaf package (in dependency tree), just like library. In such case it's
> completely reasonable to stabilize the newest version of such 'library',
> especially wh
On Friday 05 of March 2010 11:22:18 Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> I *am* a stable user, and I do want to install python3 (without having
> to override keywords -- because my packager, the gentoo python team,
> says it works!). I recognize the cruft problem, but I don't think
> keeping things in unstabl
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:14, Joshua Saddler wrote:
> Aaaand none of my packages that are installed "want" to use it. That's what
> I'm sayin'. Maybe if I ran ~arch they'd ask for Python 3.x, but I run stable,
> so *nothing* wants to use it. Every other stable user is in the same
> situation. Y
On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:56:23 +0100
Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> > No one has said yet why this is. So . . . direct question, gimme a direct
> > answer: why?
>
> Because in my opinion stable means that the people who package this
> are stating that hey, we did some testing with this, it works with all
On 03/05/2010 01:41 AM, Joshua Saddler wrote:
> If it's stable, then users get it by default, assuming they run the stable
> tree. They install a recent stage3, build their system, run emerge -uD world.
> Bam, a useless version of Python is now installed. Nothing on their systems
> will use it,
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:41, Joshua Saddler wrote:
>>> Python 3 is a new major version of Python and is intentionally incompatible
>>> with Python 2. Many external modules have not been ported yet to Python 3,
>>> so
>>> currently Python 3.1 should not be set as main active version of Python.
>>
On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:10:00 +0100
Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> Because 'stable' denotes that it works as intended, that it can be
> installed easily, etc. All of these are true now for python3. There
> are applications being written for it. We want to package those too.
> I'm fine with people masking
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 09:25, Joshua Saddler wrote:
> So . . . why the heck are you stabilizing it?
Because 'stable' denotes that it works as intended, that it can be
installed easily, etc. All of these are true now for python3. There
are applications being written for it. We want to package thos
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:22:41 +0100
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> Python 3 is a new major version of Python and is intentionally incompatible
> with Python 2. Many external modules have not been ported yet to Python 3, so
> currently Python 3.1 should not be set as main active versio
On 4 March 2010 22:16, Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> On 03/04/10 19:22, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>> All problems, which were blocking stabilization of Python 3, have been fixed.
>> Stabilization of Python 3.1.2 is currently scheduled on 2010-04-19.
>
> #python on Freenode still read
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 22:16, Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> Are we at a point already where we can feed 90% of the Python 2.x code
> out there to Python 3 without problems?
No, and that point will never come, but this is not a problem right now.
Python 3 will be installed slotted, as an extra versi
On 03/04/10 19:22, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> All problems, which were blocking stabilization of Python 3, have been fixed.
> Stabilization of Python 3.1.2 is currently scheduled on 2010-04-19.
#python on Freenode still reads "It's too early to use Python 3.x".
Are they wrong?
A
On 3/4/10 7:22 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> Setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python is currently unsupported.
> When it will change, a separate news item will be created to notify users.
I'd suggest s/users/you
> 'eselect python COMMAND --python3 [ARGUMENTS]' can b
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