Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: gentoo's installer is EASY if you just read the docs. I'd rather be installing and waiting for the installer to tell me what to do rather than go read docs somewhere else :P and when the nice installer fucks

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: gentoo's installer is EASY if you just read the docs. I'd rather be installing and waiting for the installer to tell me what to do rather than go read docs somewhere else :P and

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 12:36, Nikos Chantziaras escribió: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:. I can't think of a single reason why the installer should operate in a different manner to the way the thing will be used. Because

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: gentoo's installer is EASY if you just read the docs. I'd rather be installing and waiting for the installer to tell me

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Joshua D Doll
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: gentoo's installer is EASY if you just read the docs. I'd rather be installing and waiting for the installer to tell me what to do rather than go read docs

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Saphirus Sage
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: gentoo's installer is EASY if you just read the docs. I'd rather be installing and waiting for the installer to tell me what to do rather than go read docs

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 14:53, Saphirus Sage escribió: Cocoy Dayao wrote: There are certain situations where the step-by-step installer isn't adequate. For instance, when I was installing gentoo on my G4, it was straight forward and easy, but when I decided to do a minimal install on

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 16:23, Grant Edwards escribió: On 2009-02-05, Dirk Uys dirkc...@gmail.com wrote: The type of user I don't like is the ignorant type. Innocent users are ok, they don't know, but ignorant users choose not to know. Surely there are things you use without knowing

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 20:00, Mike Edenfield escribió: On 2/5/2009 7:01 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: no. He is an idiot if he does not read the docs. Simple. Like people who don't read the manual to their car or vcr and then complaining if something does not work. Idiots. They

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 21:03:30 +0100 (CET), Jesús Guerrero wrote: Gentoo is not a distro. You don't use it, It's a metadristro that can be used to build a proper distro, after that you can use the final product. It's a flatpack distro ;-) -- Neil Bothwick Hi, I'm not a signature virus. Why

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
Saphirus Sage wrote: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: You're screwed anyway if you can't use the CLI installer correctly. Reading the docs is fine, but they're written for geeks, not normal people. Normal people don't have a clue what the docs are talking about :) It seems to me that not to many

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Mark Knecht
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: SNIP and gentoo was never meant for the clueless. Ah, come on Volker, say what's true. My 81 year old dad uses Gentoo and he cannot use vi. Maybe you really meant, but didn't say, 'Gentoo was never meant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Mark Knecht
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: I think the Handbook and other Official gentoo docs are well and written. I feel they are so well written and informative that a new user could read and follow what the doc is trying to convey. --Joshua Doll I

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
Jesús Guerrero wrote: It's not The community vs. you, you are part of the community since the very moment you start using linux. Most people don't want to be some part of some weird community. They just want to use a computer. If they were looking for friends, they might try the local

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Paul Hartman
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: I think the Handbook and other Official gentoo docs are well and written. I feel they are so well written and informative that a new user could

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread kashani
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: because it kept the 'i am too cool to read the docs' idiots away. Being forced to read the documentation is a good thing - and it did not hurt gentoo's popularity. Only after it started to catering to idiots and more and more of loud mouthed 'I am the centre of the

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann
On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: SNIP and gentoo was never meant for the clueless. Ah, come on Volker, say what's true. My 81 year old dad uses Gentoo and he cannot use vi. Maybe

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Joshua D Doll
Paul Hartman wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: I think the Handbook and other Official gentoo docs are well and written. I feel they are so well written and

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Mark Knecht
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: I think the Handbook and other Official gentoo docs are well

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 21:25, Nikos Chantziaras escribió: Jesús Guerrero wrote: It's not The community vs. you, you are part of the community since the very moment you start using linux. Most people don't want to be some part of some weird community. They just want to use a

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 22:01, Jesús Guerrero escribió: El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 21:25, Nikos Chantziaras escribió: Jesús Guerrero wrote: It's not The community vs. you, you are part of the community since the very moment you start using linux. Most people don't want to be

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:25:11 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Most people don't want to be some part of some weird community. They just want to use a computer. If they were looking for friends, they might try the local sports club. Who are these people on whose behalf you speak? Why should

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Joshua D Doll
Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: I think the Handbook and

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread momesso . andrea
-Original Message- From: Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:43:43 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh? Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Nikos

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Paul Hartman
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: Paul Hartman wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: I think the Handbook and other Official

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Joshua D Doll
Paul Hartman wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: Paul Hartman wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: I

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Dale
Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D Doll joshua.d...@gmail.com wrote: I think the Handbook and other Official gentoo docs are well and written. I feel they are so well written and informative that a new user could read and follow what the doc is trying to convey.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Dale
Joshua D Doll wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: I completely agree. I like the control also. I only took a *very* small exception to Joshua's statement that a 'new user' could read, follow it and understand what

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Joshua D Doll
Dale wrote: Joshua D Doll wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: I completely agree. I like the control also. I only took a *very* small exception to Joshua's statement that a 'new user' could read, follow it

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Saphirus Sage
Joshua D Doll wrote: Dale wrote: Joshua D Doll wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: I completely agree. I like the control also. I only took a *very* small exception to Joshua's statement that a 'new user'

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Joshua D Doll
Saphirus Sage wrote: Joshua D Doll wrote: Dale wrote: Joshua D Doll wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: I completely agree. I like the control also. I only took a *very* small

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Dale
Joshua D Doll wrote: Saphirus Sage wrote: Joshua D Doll wrote: Dale wrote: Joshua D Doll wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: I completely agree. I like the control also. I only took

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Saphirus Sage
Dale wrote: Joshua D Doll wrote: Saphirus Sage wrote: Joshua D Doll wrote: Dale wrote: Joshua D Doll wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Stroller
On 5 Feb 2009, at 23:12, Joshua D Doll wrote: ... Also man pages lacking valuable information is the reason why GNU has switched to the majority of their packages to using info! I suspect the reason for this is far more about navigation then contents. GNU can rewrite all their man pages if

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Stroller
On 5 Feb 2009, at 23:03, Saphirus Sage wrote: ... Man pages are notoriously bad. The gentoo handbook and other official docs are great OTOH. Man pages notoriously bad?! Now that's a stance I can hardly understand, they've always been a godsend in my experience! Just practice using a

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Vie, 6 de Febrero de 2009, 4:03, Stroller escribió: My experience is that only after learning the syntax of manpages (is that itself documented?) do I find most of them tremendously easy to navigate to find the one specific option I'm looking for. If all the problem about man pages is

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Stroller
On 6 Feb 2009, at 03:08, Jesús Guerrero wrote: El Vie, 6 de Febrero de 2009, 4:03, Stroller escribió: My experience is that only after learning the syntax of manpages (is that itself documented?) do I find most of them tremendously easy to navigate to find the one specific option I'm looking

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Vie, 6 de Febrero de 2009, 5:40, Stroller escribió: less [-[+]aBcCdeEfFgGiIJKLmMnNqQrRsSuUVwWX~] [-b space] [-h lines] [-j line] [-k keyfile] [-{oO} logfile] [-p pattern] [-P prompt] [-t tag] [-T tagsfile] [-x tab,...] [-y lines] [-[z] lines] [-# shift] [+[+]cmd] [--] [filename]...

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Friday 06 February 2009 06:40:01 Stroller wrote: If the problem is contents then that's nothing to do with man, but with whomever made (or didn't made) the page. Yes, but there's a problem with the MAJORITY of contents, perhaps of   the majority of people writing manpages? It just seems

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Friday 06 February 2009 04:45:04 Stroller wrote: On 5 Feb 2009, at 23:12, Joshua D Doll wrote: ... Also man pages lacking valuable information is the reason why GNU has switched to the majority of their packages to using info! I suspect the reason for this is far more about navigation

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Stroller
On 6 Feb 2009, at 05:03, Jesús Guerrero wrote: ... But sometimes, the amount of info to present is simply overwhelming. To name just a couple of man pages that are really excellent I'd say that the fvwm and bash ones are really good. But being rather long they are better suited as reference

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Vie, 6 de Febrero de 2009, 7:57, Stroller escribió: On 6 Feb 2009, at 05:03, Jesús Guerrero wrote: ... But sometimes, the amount of info to present is simply overwhelming. To name just a couple of man pages that are really excellent I'd say that the fvwm and bash ones are really good.

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-05 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
Joshua D Doll wrote: I think the Handbook and other Official gentoo docs are well and written. I feel they are so well written and informative that a new user could read and follow what the doc is trying to convey. I'll just quote Linux Hater here: Write tons of documentation on complicated

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Momesso Andrea
On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:58:23AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: So all in all, I agree.  Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter of performance optimization but of better control of how to build the packages and the

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Sebastián Magrí
El mié, 04-02-2009 a las 14:03 +0100, Momesso Andrea escribió: On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:58:23AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: So all in all, I agree. Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter of performance optimization

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Momesso Andrea
On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:45:50AM -0430, Sebastián Magrí wrote: [snip] Often on gentoo related IRC chanels comes someone who asks why his firefox-bin (or openoffice-bin or *-bin) runs faster than his built-from-source firefox. Usually chan's gurus answer that upstream packagers use

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
Sebastián Magrí wrote: Also, Gentoo is a great school. If you want to learn how a Linux system works, and really want to learn about Unix systems, then Gentoo is the best for you. I don't get that argument. I didn't learn how Linux or Unix works with Gentoo. I didn't even find my prior

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 11:08, Nikos Chantziaras escribió: Jesús Guerrero wrote: [...] A big big advantage is that besides the huge number of packages that we have, we also have dozens of overlays. [...] and some of them are really bug. QFT ;) Ouch, I meant big, though that

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:31:26 +0100, Momesso Andrea wrote: Sure, I've used per-package optimizations myself in some particular cases, but that's not the point. A package manteiner *should* know better than an average user which optimizations will tune better their own package. But the user

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2009-02-04, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: This thread is not complete without the obligatory link: http://funroll-loops.info/ Brilliant! I really like this one: To me, an extra 0.1% performance increase, even if I am only imagining it to be faster, is certainly

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2009-02-04, Jes?s Guerrero i92gu...@terra.es wrote: El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 8:39, Alan McKinnon escribi?: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 09:27:31 Christopher Walters wrote: I personally don't view Gentoo as a distro in the traditional sense. To me, it's a build system, an app -

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Sebastián Magrí
El mié, 04-02-2009 a las 14:31 +0100, Momesso Andrea escribió: On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:45:50AM -0430, Sebastián Magrí wrote: [snip] Often on gentoo related IRC chanels comes someone who asks why his firefox-bin (or openoffice-bin or *-bin) runs faster than his built-from-source

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:25:49 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: Except that what you build and maintain isn't a distro, it's a single machine. Why? -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 01B: Illegal error - You are not allowed to get this error. Next time you will get a penalty for that.

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread James
Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gentoo at gmail.com writes: One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making general purpose C languages for programs to take advantage of the power of the GPU. Look for Gentoo to beat

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 8:39, Alan McKinnon escribió: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 09:27:31 Christopher Walters wrote: I personally don't view Gentoo as a distro in the traditional sense. To me, it's a build system, an app - portage or paludis - and the devs that make cool input files

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Hazen Valliant-Saunders
With unit processors approaching up to 128 Cores on a single GPU I can see why the guys at all those institutions want to put EL lights in their big hawking 4 card SLI rigs? That's like 1600 Cores on a single system, Even Blue Gene L only has Dual Core PowerPC 440's, whith AMD's 4870 having 800

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2009-02-04, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:25:49 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: Except that what you build and maintain isn't a distro, it's a single machine. Why? Do you distribute what you're building as a something for others to use to install Linux?

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2009-02-04, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gentoo at gmail.com writes: One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making general purpose C languages for programs to take

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann
On Mittwoch 04 Februar 2009, Momesso Andrea wrote: On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 08:58:23AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: So all in all, I agree.  Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter of performance optimization but of

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
Jesús Guerrero wrote: [...] A big big advantage is that besides the huge number of packages that we have, we also have dozens of overlays. [...] and some of them are really bug. QFT ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:01:19 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: If I wanted a learn Unix distro, I would be using Slackware :P s/Slackware/Linux From Scratch/ That just teaches you to read and repeat the same commands over and over. You learn about Linux by administering it, not installing it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:19:17 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: Except that what you build and maintain isn't a distro, it's a single machine. Why? Do you distribute what you're building as a something for others to use to install Linux? I don't, and none of the other Gentoo users

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 15:31:26 Momesso Andrea wrote: My question can be put like this: Do binary distro's per package optimiziations override the benefit of having arch specific optimiziations that gentoo allows? That can only be answered with valid benchmarks on paper in front of you.

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread James
Hazen Valliant-Saunders hazenvs at gmail.com writes: No they would never be useful for anything other then rendering bouncing bobbies! ;) Bouncing bobbies? Sound like a fraternity game for new recruits... So Searching and Sorting, are documented to orders of magnitude faster on GPU (SIMD)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Momesso Andrea
On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 03:59:44PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 15:31:26 Momesso Andrea wrote: My question can be put like this: Do binary distro's per package optimiziations override the benefit of having arch specific optimiziations that gentoo allows? That

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 7:17, Grant Edwards escribió: On 2009-02-04, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Grant Edwards grante at visi.com writes: Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's described as a system similar to BSD ports where you build packages from source. The main

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 14:19, Nikos Chantziaras escribió: Sebastián Magrí wrote: Also, Gentoo is a great school. If you want to learn how a Linux system works, and really want to learn about Unix systems, then Gentoo is the best for you. I don't get that argument. I didn't learn

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 16:25, Grant Edwards escribió: On 2009-02-04, Jes?s Guerrero i92gu...@terra.es wrote: El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 8:39, Alan McKinnon escribi?: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 09:27:31 Christopher Walters wrote: I personally don't view Gentoo as a distro

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
Jesús Guerrero wrote: El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 14:19, Nikos Chantziaras escribió: Sebastián Magrí wrote: Also, Gentoo is a great school. If you want to learn how a Linux system works, and really want to learn about Unix systems, then Gentoo is the best for you. I don't get that

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 17:19, Grant Edwards escribió: On 2009-02-04, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:25:49 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: Except that what you build and maintain isn't a distro, it's a single machine. Why? Do you distribute

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 18:48, Nikos Chantziaras escribió: Jesús Guerrero wrote: El Mie, 4 de Febrero de 2009, 14:19, Nikos Chantziaras escribió: Sebastián Magrí wrote: Also, Gentoo is a great school. If you want to learn how a Linux system works, and really want to learn

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Paul Hartman
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:07 AM, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gentoo at gmail.com writes: One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making general purpose C languages for

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 19:48:27 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Gentoo forces you to use linux in the sense that you need to do all the work by yourself to install it. What you describe is just the regular update/install process, which is simple enough as you said. It was very easy for

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 18:55:07 Momesso Andrea wrote: On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 03:59:44PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 15:31:26 Momesso Andrea wrote: My question can be put like this: Do binary distro's per package optimiziations override the benefit of

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Sebastián Magrí
El mié, 04-02-2009 a las 22:24 +0200, Alan McKinnon escribió: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 19:48:27 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Gentoo forces you to use linux in the sense that you need to do all the work by yourself to install it. What you describe is just the regular update/install

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Paul Hartman
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Sebastián Magrí sebasma...@gmail.com wrote: El mié, 04-02-2009 a las 22:24 +0200, Alan McKinnon escribió: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 19:48:27 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Gentoo forces you to use linux in the sense that you need to do all the work by yourself

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
Sebastián Magrí wrote: The installation experience with the traditional method must be mandatory... That's why I think we are better now that GLI is deprecated... That's not good. It hurts Gentoo's popularity if it's not easy to install. But since there are not enough devs left for the GUI

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Jesús Guerrero
El Jue, 5 de Febrero de 2009, 7:07, Nikos Chantziaras escribió: Sebastián Magrí wrote: The installation experience with the traditional method must be mandatory... That's why I think we are better now that GLI is deprecated... That's not good. It hurts Gentoo's popularity if it's not

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:28:50 Jesús Guerrero wrote: There are enough easy-to-use distros. Let us, masochists, live in peace. We love pain, why do people care so much about what we do with our privacy? :P [it's a joke, in case anyone didn't notice] There have been several attempts to

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Dale
Jesús Guerrero wrote: By the way, did I already said that anyone that can read can also install Gentoo? Lost of people with no experience with linux did it with very little or no help. I used Mandrake 9.1 for a little while then tried to upgrade to 9.2. I installed Gentoo the hard way

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?

2009-02-04 Thread Dale
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 05 February 2009 09:28:50 Jesús Guerrero wrote: There are enough easy-to-use distros. Let us, masochists, live in peace. We love pain, why do people care so much about what we do with our privacy? :P [it's a joke, in case anyone didn't notice] There have

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-03 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
Grant Edwards wrote: Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's describe as a system similar to BSD ports where you build packages from source. The main benefit claimed for this approach is that you get better performance because all executables are optimized for exactly the right instruction

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-03 Thread James
Grant Edwards grante at visi.com writes: Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's describe as a system similar to BSD ports where you build packages from source. The main benefit claimed for this approach is that you get better performance because all executables are optimized for exactly

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-03 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2009-02-04, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Grant Edwards grante at visi.com writes: Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's described as a system similar to BSD ports where you build packages from source. The main benefit claimed for this approach is that you get better

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-03 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: So all in all, I agree.  Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter of performance optimization but of better control of how to build the packages and the rolling release nature (I'm tired of major updates every 6 months in the

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-03 Thread Christopher Walters
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Alan McKinnon wrote: On Wednesday 04 February 2009 01:48:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: So all in all, I agree. Using Gentoo is nowadays not so much a matter of performance optimization but of better control of how to build the snip I also get

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: optimized for your system -- huh?

2009-02-03 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 09:27:31 Christopher Walters wrote: I will mention that the performance optimizations for Gentoo mainly lie in the kernel configuration (the binary distributions compile just about everything you can imagine into their kernels), and in fine tuning the USE flags,

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