[Gimp-developer] Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)
I originally intended to submit this in Bugzilla, but let's discuss this here first: One of the changes from GIMP 2.2 to 2.4 is the streamlining of some tools and removal of some annoying tool pop-ups that were breaking the workflow and stealing the focus from the canvas. The pop-up is gone from the Crop tool but is still present in the transform tools. However, as noted by one user on IRC today, this has also removed the big Crop button that existed previously in the pop-up. Although there is now a status bar message that says Click or press Enter to crop once the crop rectangle has been defined, it seems that some users still expect to see some kind of button somewhere. This issue may also affect other tools such as the transform tools if we also get rid of their pop-ups. One idea would be to put such a button in the status bar, just like the Cancel button that appears when a plug-in displays its progress information. This could be done for all tools that have a state in which some actions should be confirmed (some selection tools, transform tools, etc.) But other solutions may also be possible, unless we close this issue as WONTFIX. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Hue-Saturation tool with gradients
Hi Guillermo! Guillermo Espertino wrote: Danko Dolch escribió: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that mockup basically aims to change the aspect of the dialog without adding any enhancement. The tool does exactly the same but the dialog looks like Photoshop's one. Does it? I havn't used PS since a long long time... if it looks like PS then I have to have a look at PS but I don't expect to find there highend visualisation functions like in motion picture color grading tools nor the cool discreet like preset banks... ;-) I attach a side by side comparision between your mockup and the Photoshop CS2 Hue/Saturation dialog. Ah jep - have to clarify that this first mockup was created by mario - see the first post from him ;-) Yes exactly the same except for: - the more visual primary color selection with enhanced visualisation - powerful storage banks for test setups - a drop down preset lib - loading and saveing of settings - added compare tool - sliders with scale marks and middel point mark finally you can say it's exactly the same ;-) I wasn't talking about the PS Hue/Saturation tool. What I was trying to say is that this mockup looks like the PS dialog but with the same features of the current tool in Gimp. *http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=92732* I don't see any of those features in that mockup. If you're referring to a different one, please let me know and point me the correct URL. PS Hue saturation tool? Mario had created the first mockup: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=92732 As response I thougt about how I would like use this tool and cerated this as an answer to marios first work: http://www.dolchonline.net/prj/GIMP/hsl-adjustment-dialog-mockup-small.png to explain my thought's I put it together to this overview: http://www.dolchonline.net/prj/GIMP/chart_mokup_HSL_adjustment.png I only had an hour to made the mockup so I don't found the time to implement highlight/mid/shadow support or other needful extensions... you are right this had to be integrated for future mockups - and even I have to go step by step - next version will show a lot more maybe... ;-) I'm looking forward to see that. I'm very interested! :) That's great! Let's create some interesting new UI conceptions! We should follow Seven's suggestions and crete more usage scenarios first... Until today nobody has integrated this small cool things in a standard image editing application - not even that small things... (what sense made it to figure out complex things if even the simple ones are not realized? ;-) If I learned something in the Gimp's developers list is that you have to convince developers of the value of your proposals. Most of the times it's a titanic task, but when you make it the results are great. Most of the times, also, they don't pay attention to small changes, but when a nice challenge pops up, they seem to be more interested. A couple of weeks ago I pointed an issue in the jpeg exporter. The first time I was treated like... ehm... an idiot. But after the big discussion, there are some news in that field and the exporter was greatly improved. As I told you, it was hard, but it worths. It's a hard thing to improve things ;-) But we have to do it... And yes - we have to create some real challenges for the coders ;-) Maybe it would be better for future versions to redesign the dialog adding some real enhancements to the tool, like arbitrary 3-point gradient selection and/or a curve for tweaking. In that case, the use of a wheel is better than a linear scale because it matches better with the well known color wheel scheme. You are absolutely right - lets go and start with this - I really would enjoy to integrate all this things into a mockup and discuss pros and cons... Ok! I love the idea. Let's start to analize the possibilities and brainstorm a couple of mockups so we can send them a complete use scenario and a nice mockup to see if they like the idea of implementing it. I'm working on a rough mockup with an idea with the wheel and something else. I'll send you a sample when it is more advanced. Keep in touch! ok - we will do! :-) Gez. P.s.: Sorry I called you Marius B in the list. I had misread the e-mail heading. no problem - hey mario let's start to work - we have a lot of things to do - and finaly figure out how we could support the GUI group... Best Regards Danko ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Hue-Saturation tool with gradients
Hi Guillermo! Hi Danko: Here is a very very early mockup. I have the idea but had no time to translate it to a better mockup. I know - t's the same for me too... ;-) I have to re-arrange some buttons, add others, and think lots of things (for example, I'm not sure if the current widgets allow a wheel selector like that) I suspect they don't but I see our current task not so much in creating designs for the current widget set but in showing how a modern and powerful dialog should look for future releases. Unfortunately I'm currently not enough involved in the practical interface work. So first I will concentrate on designing next gen. controls and discuss them. This will result in new ideas and can be helpful to further dev. the GIMP UI. -- But now some feedback to your mockup: I really like the color weel with the second ring - so you can visualize the different In/Out color parameters in one way - to use it we need radial sliders - great! I see the color picker - nice! And the Curve Tool for the color overlapping - yes... - The curve would be opened in a second window right? I have a problem with all this cluttered windows. I like a single dialog with all available parameters - but this will quickly get komplex. pro: no cluttered messing with different windows and clicking through assistants con: needs lot of display space and makes the dialog too complex for most users (even pros ;-) solution: INTERPLAY[in the beginning the UI design was static - and people needed more flexible configuration options - then programs got thousands of floating cluttered windows and people had to arrange them all the time instead of working with the app. - now we got this nice type of free configurable non overlapping UI - like in Blender or combustion or a lot of other great programms - this is flexible but powerful and in a long term we should think about the pros and cons of this...) We make the additional areas like adjustment curve dynamically extending the main dialog (open or close with a small arrow button) Anyways I'd like to discuss with you some ideas off-list to reach a more compelling design. Question: 1. Is http://gui.gimp.org still active developed? 2. How we get in touch with Peter, Kamila and Ellen to see on what they are currently working. 3. We urgently need a Forum and a Wiki where we can meet the other people working on the GIMP UI greetings Danko Regards, Gez. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Hue-Saturation tool with gradients
Hi Sven! Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 14:41 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that mockup basically aims to change the aspect of the dialog without adding any enhancement. The tool does exactly the same but the dialog looks like Photoshop's one. The only improvement I see is the ability to see the actual influence of the overlap value on the color gradient, wich is cool, but I don't know if it's cool enough to change the whole dialog, that already works fine. Maybe it would be better for future versions to redesign the dialog adding some real enhancements to the tool, like arbitrary 3-point gradient selection and/or a curve for tweaking. In that case, the use of a wheel is better than a linear scale because it matches better with the well known color wheel scheme. I agree with this. We should take our time to look at this tool and how it could be improved to become really useful. A first start would be to write down some usage scenarios where this tool could be useful. Ok - I would like to do so - I've tryed to create a user account at the GUI wiki but it seems that not all functions are working? I could not create an account. How could I start to help? Then perhaps evalulate how well the current implementation and the PS tool deal with it. Could get a PS user to support me with this - I could point how Corel Photopaint and Autodesk Combustion are working... -- Maybe it's not only useful to think about the HSL adjustment dialog - there are for sure a lot of other things to look at? -- It would be so helpful to get an prototyping env. for UI test's for example via scripting. I know there are a lot of limitations but what do You think is the best way not only to draw images? I support some coders in the company where I'm working with HTML/Java-Script/Ruby and we create really complex interface elements for WEB 2.0 apps. I would like to get some tips, how I as graphics designer with a scripting background could prototype and test some interface elements... Best Regards Danko Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Fwd: TinyScheme and GIMP]
Subject: TinyScheme and GIMP Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:26:36 -0700 On the Inkscape project we received a patch from the folks at Glimmer labs which adds Scheme functionality. It uses the TinyScheme interpreter which looks like it's also being used by GIMP. From what I can tell, it seems that GIMP is including TinyScheme in the source tree. The Script-Fu plug-in of GIMP allows the use of scripts written in Scheme. It has been part of a standard installation of GIMP for a long time. The latest version of the Script-Fu plug-in uses the TinyScheme interpreter. Do you expect TinyScheme to be an external library at some point? If we were using it in Inkscape also, would that change the answer? There are no plans to move the plug-in or the TinyScheme interpreter out of the main GIMP source tree. I am considering creating a version 2 of Script-Fu which would work in a fashion similar to that of the Perl, Python, and Ruby scripting plug-ins. The TinyScheme interpreter would be a standalone program like Perl, and Python (etc.). To run a Scheme based script GIMP would start TinyScheme which would pull in a run-time loadable module(s) which would provide the hooks to GIMP. I already started looking in to this some time ago. I stopped working on it after a while as Script-Fu was still under going some changes and cleanup. I didn't want to maintain multiple copies of a Script-Fu tree. Sometime after GIMP 2.4 is released I will resume working on it. Not quite the external library solution you have in mind. It would make it easy for you to grab the TinyScheme source and use it without modification. You would only need your own extension to handle the hooks in to Inkscape. Is your TinyScheme patched for UTF-8? Yes. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |What are we going to do today, Borg? Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world! #include disclaimer/favourite | -Pinkutus the Borg ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)
Raphaël Quinet wrote: One of the changes from GIMP 2.2 to 2.4 is the streamlining of some tools [...] However, as noted by one user on IRC today, this has also removed the big Crop button that existed previously in the pop-up. [...] One idea would be to put such a button in the status bar, just like the Cancel button that appears when a plug-in displays its progress information. Interesting observation, but does it make sense to have buttons in a place that (to my understanding) is supposed to be a monologue, i.e. just providing information; not offer interaction? Wouldn't it make more sense to have this button in the Tool Options? Now, I know that we don't like more stuff in there, but imo that's the right place for such a button. - Martin Nordholts ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Hue-Saturation tool with gradients
My previous message replied by Danko was intended to be off-list to avoid the noise and personal opinions, but somehow it ended here, so I'd like to clarify. When I say that one must convince developers I mean by providing strong arguments in favor of the proposed solution/feature. Not just repeating and harrasing developers with demands. I wanted to continue this discussion about the refactoring of the Hue/Saturation tool off-list to avoid unnecessary details of the process, and bring it back to the list later when the usage description and more advanced mockups are ready. If somebody is interested in participating in this process please send me an e-mail so we can coordinate efforts with Danko and Marius Regards, Gez. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
