Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)]
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Carol Spears wrote: > Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:51:34 -0800 > From: Carol Spears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > GIMPDev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? > [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)] > > i have a question for you; you don't need to answer it to anyone but > yourself. what does the word gimp mean to you and where ever could you > have come up with this meaning? One of the meanings I associate with the the word gimp is lame or crippled (it is a dictionary definition of the term). http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gimp the other you have already mentioned > when i hear the word gimp, i get a chuckle from a media image that some > pack of film geniuses inbedded into our collective language lately. I must say the name doesn't bother me very much but I'm not the only one who would prefer a differnt name, it was brought up recently on the user mailing list, and a bug report was filed and I didn't see the harm in allowing users to change the name if they really wanted to (and they still can if they are the kind of person who knows how to compile their own software, but that rules out most normal users). > with this sort of cord: http://www.boondoggleman.com/what_is_it.htm Until now I was totally unaware that the term gimp also had that meaning. That idea could have been used to come up with a very interesting splash screen but I don't think anyone picked up on the idea. > i am becoming confusing again. i am sorry. let me try to sum it up > this way: what gives you the right to inflict your perversions on a > group of developers like that? If you look again I am not trying to inflict anything on anyone. I do not apprecaite the implication that I'm perverted, if anything I would prefer to have a neutral word that has none of those connotations. Most importantly I was not asking for the project to change name and not seeking to impose a new name on anyone else but merely asking why it was would not be acceptable to make it easier for those who would like to change the name for themselves. > if you have a problem with the name, perhaps you should fix yourself. The name doesn't stop me using the GNU Image Manipulation Program, but it it is one more thing getting in the way of convincing other people to try it. > leave bugzilla for software problems. I didn't file the bug report. Please do take a look at it first and read my other posts if you feel it is still necessary to reply to this message. Sincerely Alan Horkan. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)]
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 06:11:39PM +, Alan Horkan wrote: > > I do not know if you are a native English speaker but the term gimp is has > a very similar meaning to "cripple". If you look at the bug report I > point to some comments where people other than me say they have > encountered difficulties, notably the embarassment of explaining the name > really was the gimp to a person in a wheelchair and that the user was not > mocking them. > i think (with my experience with this community) that this person needs to look at how he/she is treating the person in the wheelchair. i dont think (in my experience) that a defensive response like this can be blamed solely on the name of a piece of software. i would like to know more about the people involved in this story. there must have been some mocking before hand or the person has recently acquired the need for the wheelchair. a name change will not fix either situation. > I'm not a big fan of "funny" project names because different people find > completely different things funny, and I much prefer names that give some > idea of what a project does (which the long form GNU Image Manipulation > Program does serve that purpose). > your activity with this project seems to say that this is not an accurate statement. carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)]
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, David [iso-8859-15] Gómez wrote: > Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:19:26 +0100 > From: "David [iso-8859-15] Gómez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? > [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)] > > Hi Alan, > > > I don't think it is a good idea to change the project name. > > So you kind of answered to yourself... No that is the answer to quite a different question. I asked why not accept patches that make it easier to change the name. > > It is a good sign that the gimp has improved so much that people are only > > left with the name to complain about :) > > I don't complain about the name. I never claimed you did. > > I think it would be a fair compromise to accept patches that make it > > easier for those who would like to configure the name. > > That a non-sense claim. I think that people that get offended by > a name have deeper problems. You can say it is trivial or silly but you cannot deny that it happens to bother a small minority of people. I do not know if you are a native English speaker but the term gimp is has a very similar meaning to "cripple". If you look at the bug report I point to some comments where people other than me say they have encountered difficulties, notably the embarassment of explaining the name really was the gimp to a person in a wheelchair and that the user was not mocking them. > And they should worry first about them instead of changing everybody's > minds to their way of thinking. I say again that I was not asking to change what everbody else calls the GNU Image Manipulation Program but I was asking why it would not be acceptable to make it easier for other to change the name (and Sven has explained the reasons for it). > I answer to you, because i work on a window manager with a name > that could be considered offensive by spanish-speakers with similar What is the name? > ideas to the users who claim that gimp should change its name. But we > didn't intend to offense anyone when we choosed the name, it was just a > joke. I'm not a big fan of "funny" project names because different people find completely different things funny, and I much prefer names that give some idea of what a project does (which the long form GNU Image Manipulation Program does serve that purpose). But this is all beside the point, I'm not trying to force the majority to change their ways but I wanted to make it easier for the small minority to help themselves. > People who complained about the name understood this when we explained > it to them. > > If a project as big as Mozilla Firefox allows it name to be changed, why > > would it be an issue for the gimp? > > There was another project called Firebird, so there was a good reason > to change it. As Sven explained and I pointed out in other posts the fact that Mozilla and Firefox can be so easily rebranded has far more to do with Netscape than it does any legal issues. > > Why require people to fork or maintain their own patchsets for the sake of > > a little extra configurability. > > I wouldn't call it configurability. What would you call it then? - Alan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)]
i have a question for you; you don't need to answer it to anyone but yourself. what does the word gimp mean to you and where ever could you have come up with this meaning? when i hear the word gimp, i get a chuckle from a media image that some pack of film geniuses inbedded into our collective language lately. also, i did not see this movie when it first came out because there was "too much hype". had it not been for the hype, this movie would have only been seen by a handful of similar film geeks (not gimp -- geek) and you might never had associated that word with that image. i was a girl scout when i was a kid. this means a lot of different things, one of the things that was necessary to do when you were affiliated with this organization when i was growing up was you were required to tie this sort of knot: http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/sierratses/images/lanyard.jpg with this sort of cord: http://www.boondoggleman.com/what_is_it.htm so i am going to suggest that the only name we consider to change "TheGIMP" to is "Boondoggle". children know what they can tell their grandparents better than their parents, i think. adults get plagued with "interesting media images" much more than children do, especially when both see the same image. to say that "TheGIMP" is an inappropriate name is to bring human beings all down to this level that is unnecessary. i am becoming confusing again. i am sorry. let me try to sum it up this way: what gives you the right to inflict your perversions on a group of developers like that? if you have a problem with the name, perhaps you should fix yourself. that was a well done movie, over hyped but well done and extremely funny. do you *know* anyone like any character in it? what i would like for you to do is to get some gimp, tie up a lanyard and think about all of this. what is it that you think of when you read the characters "TheGIMP"? leave bugzilla for software problems. carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)]
Hi Alan, > I don't think it is a good idea to change the project name. So you kind of answered to yourself... > It is a good sign that the gimp has improved so much that people are only > left with the name to complain about :) I don't complain about the name. > I think it would be a fair compromise to accept patches that make it > easier for those who would like to configure the name. That a non-sense claim. I think that people that get offended by a name have deeper problems. And they should worry first about them instead of changing everybody's minds to their way of thinking. I answer to you, because i work on a window manager with a name that could be considered offensive by spanish-speakers with similar ideas to the users who claim that gimp should change its name. But we didn't intend to offense anyone when we choosed the name, it was just a joke. People who complained about the name understood this when we explained it to them. > If a project as big as Mozilla Firefox allows it name to be changed, why > would it be an issue for the gimp? There was another project called Firebird, so there was a good reason to change it. > Why require people to fork or maintain their own patchsets for the sake of > a little extra configurability. I wouldn't call it configurability. Regards, -- David Gómez Jabber ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)]
Alan Horkan wrote: Some people have difficulty dealing with the connotations of the term "The GIMP". I wont go into details again about why some people have issues with the name, some even finding it offensive. I still find it baffling that people would get upset about something so lighthearted and harmless, but the idea of making the name configurable in the interests of a quiet life vaguely appeals if it can be done non-intrusively. Has anyone thought of (ab)using the i18n system for this? If all occurances of 'GIMP' can be tagged, someone can easily derive a en_US.TriviallyOffended translation from en_US... --Adam -- Adam D. Moss . ,,^^ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.foxbox.org/ co:3 ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Why not allow the name to be configurable? [was [Bug 160890] Change Gimp name (fwd)]
Some people have difficulty dealing with the connotations of the term "The GIMP". I wont go into details again about why some people have issues with the name, some even finding it offensive. bug 168090 suggests a name change (and it seems to be the first time anyone has wanted this enough to file a bug report about it) I don't think it is a good idea to change the project name. (CC'ing the gimp-user list as the issue was recently brought up there already.) It is a good sign that the gimp has improved so much that people are only left with the name to complain about :) I think it would be a fair compromise to accept patches that make it easier for those who would like to configure the name. Sven wrote: "Bugzilla is the wrong place for such a discussion. If you really want to have it, please bring it up on the mailing-list." Sven also wrote: I am certainly not willing to accept patches that allow to configure the name I have to ask why reject such patches? You are in the lead developer in charge and can do anything you want and I certainly wouldn't expect you to make the changes but I'd feel a lot better if you gave a good reason to reject patches that would make it easier to get more people to use Free Software? If a project as big as Mozilla Firefox allows it name to be changed, why would it be an issue for the gimp? Why require people to fork or maintain their own patchsets for the sake of a little extra configurability. Sincerely Alan Horkan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
